@@daringdare5078 i dont think so because its not immediately apparent why it would be useful, especially when they used so little compared to the other ingredients. Lime is obvious because its white, but is the salt for the shiny crystals or for some other function in the mixture like helping it stick once dried?
@@JackDaniels-ex9mf I would imagine the salt would help it dry because if just applied wet wouldn't it just freeze when outside then melt off once you got somewhere slightly warmer
During the siege of Bastogne, the remaining citizens of the town gave American troops bed sheets, dining table covers, and basically anything white in their homes to provide some sort of camouflage for the battle that everyone knew was about to come. I don't remember exactly who it was, but a higher ranking officer in the 101st airborne owned a bed sheet factory back stateside. After the war, the entire town was gifted a big shipment of bed sheets as a symbol of their gratitude.
Back in the 80s I was over at my grand parents house. I was watching a war movie and my grandfather walked in. He asked what was the movie? I said battle of the bulge. He replied with bullshit, there was snow up to our assholes! So, that’s when I discovered he was an RTO at the bulge
I was about to say this. whenever it snows us germans have a chalk grinding party and paint it on. since it was only chalk tho it never lasts too long if it gets wet.
I think it was so the salt recreates the crystal like look of snow while the rest froze it in place and made the spots that weren’t covered in salt kinda white as well. I think you can see that on your helmet quite well: the white on the top is mostly salt while the rest is responsible for the rest that still has darker spots.
Lime wash or whitewash was used as paint for houses and fences, ECT for years due to it making a weatherproof shell that protected wood. The salt crystalizes and gives thing a bright white iridescent sheen.
My grandfather suffered severe frost bite on his feet from his time fighting during the battle of the bulge. After recovering he never wore socks again for the rest of his life because he said it caused his feet to hurt too much.
My neighbor fought there. He was a cook but also had to fight he said it was so cold they didn’t have the cold weather gear but he told me he got to warm up when cooking
2 guesses for the salt; cold or washing. 1; cold; snow areas still use salt to melt ice & snow on roads; it changes water's freezing point; so the line would stay as a mud, not ice. 2; the salt was to make it reversible; lime & water is a long set, but pretty permanent, even as a wash; that ratio is basically whitewash. The salt either prevented a full chemical set or created a water soluble crystal structure when it dried, to make it easier to wash out.
I have a stahlhelm that was taken as a war souvenir by my great grandfather that is camouflaged for snow, though I dont think it was this mixture. This one is covered in what looks like chalk, you can see all the lines where they drew it on. Its an heirloom I will never give up, also I have his M1 helmet he wore
The salt crystals physically reconstitute themselves on the outside of the lime layering adding an additionally whitened appearance and a frosty look. It did cause the base of all the equipment that it was applied to become a puddle of salty slush and it was terrible to get on your skin.
salt was possibly able to allow those other ingredients to slightly melt together and allow the concoction to serve as a type of polish. Even road salt will turn your cars finish dull white buy itself.
that's actually deeply impressive. to think of that under world wide war conditions and all the respective supply difficulties, its quite impressive to have figured this mixture out with very limited materials.
I used to work for a man who was in the Battle of the Bulge and helped liberate Dacau Concentration Camp. He told me stories that made the hair stand up on the back of my head! Absolutely horrendous things that he went through. He had photos of the Concentration Camp too. They're seared into my memory.
My father was in that area. For basic training the army sent him from Ohio where he grew up, to LA in the middle of summer to train. A lot of the training was building up heat tolerance. They shipped over to Europe in more or less summer clothing and no winter boots just in time for an exceptionally cold winter. They didn't have a winter coat so they wore their sleeping bags and cut holes for their arms and head. One night they found a barn to sleep in but usually slept outside.
My take would be that they had some people working on or in greenhouses in there bunch. There is an similar mixture you use to paint over greenhouses to prevent overheating in the summer. Fall rains wash it of so the green house can again warm up with sunlight.
Salt allows for penetration into the fabric. It lowers the bonding between molecules of water and allows particulate lime to slide between the threads. Old time cloth dying solution
Salt when mixed with water and dried makes this chalky, white substance that’s powdery, and easily comes off when water or snow is rubbed on it. Lime enhances the color, as well as makes it much tougher to wipe off.
A basic Google search seems to turn up that when "lime" (calcium oxide, CaO) is added to water, calcium hydroxide- Ca(OH)2 is formed. Best guess as to why salt (NaCl) may have been added is to either counteract the alkanity of the calcium hydroxide or to create a brine solution that wouldn't freeze as easily during the winter of 1944/1945.
I'm not noticing a lot of people say this if at all but one reason salt could be used is to prevent icing, it might not be sodium salts but it could be a different chloride salt with a different reactive metal
Other make shift solutions were to use blankets or white curtains 'borrowed' from houses in the villages the soldiers passed or were based in. Using a piece of twine, white cloth would make a pretty good cover for the helmet.
My uncle fought in this battle, he said it was constant terror and at times the Germans were in front of them, at other times on their rear. Friendly fire was a moment to moment occurrence. He said, he escaped Germans that shot unarmed soldiers, after that he said any German he saw, he shot whether armed or not, because he said Germans were shooting everyone, civilians and military.
The salt would probably help mediate freezing temps of the mixture, so it wouldn’t totally freeze and crack, as well as potentially crystallizing to form snow looking patterns
Some soldiers also mixed chalk with water and used a shaving brush to coat their helmet, it washes off so in the spring they could use their canteen to take the camo off
Wehrmacht winter paint for vehicles, aircraft and other equipment was based on lime. That paint was not waterproof. When the snow changed for rain in the early springtime, the camouflage got darker on its own. I have no idea if it was an own developement or copied from Finland.
Fact: The first snow to hit the Ardennes was in the days of 23-28 December 1944 and in the Malmedy-Stavelotte region. There was snow in the 8th January 1945. A common misexeption made by the US media there
Salt wall kind of stain things white like up here in New York. When you like sell it your sidewalks you'll see like a white residue on them until it rains or the snow melts
If I remember correctly that should also be one of the battles where the Americans found out about a huge design flaw in there boots. Since they had the leather inside out, it could more easily absorb grease to be water resistant, but at the same time needed a huge amount to be water resistant. So a bunch of soldiers had drenched boots and as a result gut frost bites and/or lost a few if not all their toes.
My great uncle who was in the Battle of the Bulge told me that they would take the winter clothing from dead Germans. They had to do it quickly because the blood and bodies would quickly freeze causing the bodies to be stiff and almost impossible to get the winter gear off the bodies.
I remember there was a news piece a couple of decades ago about the obesity problem here that used "the battle of the bulge" as a euphemism. As a kid I thought it was just a little disrespectful, my grandpa was involved in that engagement. There were still a lot of WW2 vets around back then.
Als die Wehrmacht keinen Sprit mehr hatte, das Wetter aufklarte zerstörtebdie alliierte Luftwaffe ohne Gegner zu haben, alles. Das war eine große Leistung.
Salt, lime...what no drinkers out there? Where's the margarita/tequila shot jokes? Serious face: as a resident of the "Salt belt" up here in the Northeastern Atlantic states, Salt spray stays on vehicles quite effectively. That's the #1 reason to wash your car in winter. To get it off and stop its corrosive effects on unpainted metal. And as a frequent viewer of military history vids, this is new to me! Love it.
All of the above plus it’s an electrolyte that helps with powder coat bonding galvanizing etc.. give a gun barrel or steel helmet a negative charge and a coating will stick on better but you’d also need something like zinc which he didn’t mention
From what I’ve learned in German reenacting German soldiers would use a mixture of chalk and water to paint their helmets white, though I’m unsure what they used for other winter camouflages. Hope this helps!
Ever notice how the soldiers out in the field manage to fix their problems and for cheap. But when the guys back home try to fix the problem it expensive as hell and not always guaranteed to work.
My grandfather was there, wouldn't talk about it though. Or any part of the war, was kind of disappointing. But it was war and I'm sure he didn't want to relive it by talking about it...
"No, not that one."
Man's got the good jokes
yeah like a bluge I your pants...a bulge cause be a penis
The dad jokes
Dudes a dad for sure
Looks like a dad
Even sounds like one
I think the salt would be good for it being crystalized on the equipment providing a somewhat natural snow glare
Pretty sure he was being sarcastic.
@@daringdare5078 i dont think so because its not immediately apparent why it would be useful, especially when they used so little compared to the other ingredients. Lime is obvious because its white, but is the salt for the shiny crystals or for some other function in the mixture like helping it stick once dried?
@@JackDaniels-ex9mf I would imagine the salt would help it dry because if just applied wet wouldn't it just freeze when outside then melt off once you got somewhere slightly warmer
@@JackDaniels-ex9mf Salt itself looks like snow/ice, Hell have you seen salted roads when water spreads it, It looks identical to his helmet
That's what I was thinking,it also sticks better than the Lyme
During the siege of Bastogne, the remaining citizens of the town gave American troops bed sheets, dining table covers, and basically anything white in their homes to provide some sort of camouflage for the battle that everyone knew was about to come. I don't remember exactly who it was, but a higher ranking officer in the 101st airborne owned a bed sheet factory back stateside. After the war, the entire town was gifted a big shipment of bed sheets as a symbol of their gratitude.
That's a good war story. I love that kind of war story.
10/10 War story.
"They used a combination of lime..."
"...no concrete evidence."
Good one!
Congrats mate! You got hearing and compression problems
I also felt as though that were a good one.
@@cardinalpawn6467 Congratz Mate, you have spelling problems!
@@brettness1416 lol it's intentional, can't have shit in Detroit
I have no idea how that was the information you took from this
Well, it's no wonder that so many of the WWII GI helmets were super rusted over the years after the use of that salted formula for winter camo.
"No, not that one."
Too real lmao.
German troops mostly used „Schlämmkreide“, which is a liquid chalk. It was readily available as its main use was as a cleaning detergent.
Back in the 80s I was over at my grand parents house. I was watching a war movie and my grandfather walked in. He asked what was the movie? I said battle of the bulge. He replied with bullshit, there was snow up to our assholes! So, that’s when I discovered he was an RTO at the bulge
Hard as nails
During re-enactments, us Germans use chalk and grind it up. Then we add water and use a brush to put it on our helmets. Great video!
Yeah they actually did that during the war as well as the finnish
I was about to say this. whenever it snows us germans have a chalk grinding party and paint it on. since it was only chalk tho it never lasts too long if it gets wet.
“No, not that one”
Man has mind reading powers
You had his piece in your head?
I think it was so the salt recreates the crystal like look of snow while the rest froze it in place and made the spots that weren’t covered in salt kinda white as well. I think you can see that on your helmet quite well: the white on the top is mostly salt while the rest is responsible for the rest that still has darker spots.
I love this guy
Same
@@PyroDREW. he’s great
My great grandfather lead his men through these fights! Just recently passed at 104. RIP A HERO
My grandpa was there as well, though he passed when I was very young. I would have loved to be able to talk with him about it.
@@Matt_of_the_mountains I was blessed to be able to hear many of the experiences
RIP!
Lime wash or whitewash was used as paint for houses and fences, ECT for years due to it making a weatherproof shell that protected wood. The salt crystalizes and gives thing a bright white iridescent sheen.
Fun fact Lime is water activated and lime can generate alot of heat if not kept in check
Depends on your lime, chalk does not generate a lot of heat
@@jantschierschky3461 chalk is already hydrated. The heat is caused by the quicklime reacting with water to produce basically chalk
@@j.f.fisher5318 well to produce quicklime you backe lime. Chalk is also natural. I am talking about natural chalk
He he he… Bulge lol.
My grandfather suffered severe frost bite on his feet from his time fighting during the battle of the bulge. After recovering he never wore socks again for the rest of his life because he said it caused his feet to hurt too much.
My neighbor fought there. He was a cook but also had to fight he said it was so cold they didn’t have the cold weather gear but he told me he got to warm up when cooking
2 guesses for the salt; cold or washing.
1; cold; snow areas still use salt to melt ice & snow on roads; it changes water's freezing point; so the line would stay as a mud, not ice.
2; the salt was to make it reversible; lime & water is a long set, but pretty permanent, even as a wash; that ratio is basically whitewash.
The salt either prevented a full chemical set or created a water soluble crystal structure when it dried, to make it easier to wash out.
I have a stahlhelm that was taken as a war souvenir by my great grandfather that is camouflaged for snow, though I dont think it was this mixture. This one is covered in what looks like chalk, you can see all the lines where they drew it on. Its an heirloom I will never give up, also I have his M1 helmet he wore
The salt crystals physically reconstitute themselves on the outside of the lime layering adding an additionally whitened appearance and a frosty look. It did cause the base of all the equipment that it was applied to become a puddle of salty slush and it was terrible to get on your skin.
salt was possibly able to allow those other ingredients to slightly melt together and allow the concoction to serve as a type of polish. Even road salt will turn your cars finish dull white buy itself.
They don't "melt" together. Only ice will melt with salt. It's basically hard water stains. That's all.
The salt was to help bind it to the helmet, the salt sucks out the moisture and dries the concoction on to the helmet/vehicle
Well is also hygroscopic so no
The salt crusted and make the effects far more real than mass produced helmets.
Every man will have their own "Battle of the Buldge" when we get to middle age.
that's actually deeply impressive.
to think of that under world wide war conditions and all the respective supply difficulties, its quite impressive to have figured this mixture out with very limited materials.
Limewash is well known for centuries.
@@jantschierschky3461 exactly this. Historical sources frequently talk about whitewashing equipment.
I also heard from the old-timers that the Americans took the embroidered doilies, first as a joke, then really because it proved to be effective
I used to work for a man who was in the Battle of the Bulge and helped liberate Dacau Concentration Camp. He told me stories that made the hair stand up on the back of my head! Absolutely horrendous things that he went through. He had photos of the Concentration Camp too. They're seared into my memory.
That's true.
It's a combination still used in certain countries to paint walls white very cheaply.
My father was in that area. For basic training the army sent him from Ohio where he grew up, to LA in the middle of summer to train. A lot of the training was building up heat tolerance.
They shipped over to Europe in more or less summer clothing and no winter boots just in time for an exceptionally cold winter.
They didn't have a winter coat so they wore their sleeping bags and cut holes for their arms and head.
One night they found a barn to sleep in but usually slept outside.
The 2nd battle of the bulge happened today in math class
I imagine the salt gave the coating texture, which in turn made it blend in with surroundings better.
My take would be that they had some people working on or in greenhouses in there bunch.
There is an similar mixture you use to paint over greenhouses to prevent overheating in the summer.
Fall rains wash it of so the green house can again warm up with sunlight.
Salt was the binder when it dried.
I have lost the battle of the bulge, unlike the US troops....
As a joke, US soldiers used lace fabrics from homes to decorate their helmets, then it proved to be pretty effective camouflage in the snow.
Didn't know this. Thanks for the info dude 👍
If I had to guess, the salt likely helped prevent fingers and skin from getting stuck to the frozen metal
Salt allows for penetration into the fabric. It lowers the bonding between molecules of water and allows particulate lime to slide between the threads. Old time cloth dying solution
Salt when mixed with water and dried makes this chalky, white substance that’s powdery, and easily comes off when water or snow is rubbed on it. Lime enhances the color, as well as makes it much tougher to wipe off.
I’m sure the Germans had a better idea how to deal with snowy conditions by that point
I can’t tell if you’re making a dark joke or if you genuinely don’t know much about the Eastern front😂
"What's the best way to camouflage yourself in the snow, Günter?"
"You lie in it, Hans!"
often times, they literally just cut bed sheets an wore them as ponchos or strapped them around their helmets
Let's just say Hugo Boss was not the boss at making those flimsy ass uniforms
A basic Google search seems to turn up that when "lime" (calcium oxide, CaO) is added to water, calcium hydroxide- Ca(OH)2 is formed. Best guess as to why salt (NaCl) may have been added is to either counteract the alkanity of the calcium hydroxide or to create a brine solution that wouldn't freeze as easily during the winter of 1944/1945.
I'm not noticing a lot of people say this if at all but one reason salt could be used is to prevent icing, it might not be sodium salts but it could be a different chloride salt with a different reactive metal
1 of my favorites battles to learn about and the Siege Of Stalingrad.
Salt help the paint stick more onto or into surfaces. It's almost necessary when coloring fabrics.
I don't usually care as much for the shorts that youtube is pushing on the channels but you're very good at it.
I appreciate that!
Other make shift solutions were to use blankets or white curtains 'borrowed' from houses in the villages the soldiers passed or were based in.
Using a piece of twine, white cloth would make a pretty good cover for the helmet.
My uncle fought in this battle, he said it was constant terror and at times the Germans were in front of them, at other times on their rear. Friendly fire was a moment to moment occurrence. He said, he escaped Germans that shot unarmed soldiers, after that he said any German he saw, he shot whether armed or not, because he said Germans were shooting everyone, civilians and military.
The salt would probably help mediate freezing temps of the mixture, so it wouldn’t totally freeze and crack, as well as potentially crystallizing to form snow looking patterns
Salt was the colour, lime juice is a binder, water also should freeze and allow for expanding your lime supply.
Some soldiers also mixed chalk with water and used a shaving brush to coat their helmet, it washes off so in the spring they could use their canteen to take the camo off
This is actually a very old formula for what is known as white wash. Castles and mansions houses and fences were painted with it.
The salt was probably to keep the mixture from freezing in the bucket before it was fully applied or freezing onto what you were painting.
Wehrmacht winter paint for vehicles, aircraft and other equipment was based on lime. That paint was not waterproof. When the snow changed for rain in the early springtime, the camouflage got darker on its own.
I have no idea if it was an own developement or copied from Finland.
Salt to
1: Keep the lime/water mixture from freezing too quickly
2: It dries white, too.
From what my dad told me, in Germany after Vietnam, the "Snow" he had was just white sheets cut up and sewed together some way some how
Its snowing out so I figured I’d bust this video out again
Fact: The first snow to hit the Ardennes was in the days of 23-28 December 1944 and in the Malmedy-Stavelotte region. There was snow in the 8th January 1945. A common misexeption made by the US media there
The finns made snow blouses from bedsheets possibly inspired by the snow camoflage of baltic seal hunters.
Salt wall kind of stain things white like up here in New York. When you like sell it your sidewalks you'll see like a white residue on them until it rains or the snow melts
The salt makes it stick and also probably gives a more snow like appearance in the light and be a dull white
Great series. Please keep it up
If I remember correctly that should also be one of the battles where the Americans found out about a huge design flaw in there boots. Since they had the leather inside out, it could more easily absorb grease to be water resistant, but at the same time needed a huge amount to be water resistant. So a bunch of soldiers had drenched boots and as a result gut frost bites and/or lost a few if not all their toes.
Salt would be as when the water salt (H20NaCl) freezes it will crystallize and leave a more natural looking snow rather than an ice look
My great uncle who was in the Battle of the Bulge told me that they would take the winter clothing from dead Germans. They had to do it quickly because the blood and bodies would quickly freeze causing the bodies to be stiff and almost impossible to get the winter gear off the bodies.
Seems everyone's relative was at this battle, just like the 1st wave of D-Day had about 3 million more guys than who were actually there.
The one my uncle, Norman Fykrude was killed in, on December 22nd, 1944.
I remember there was a news piece a couple of decades ago about the obesity problem here that used "the battle of the bulge" as a euphemism. As a kid I thought it was just a little disrespectful, my grandpa was involved in that engagement. There were still a lot of WW2 vets around back then.
The Americans also used some table place mat stuff for your plate and put it onto there helmets for more camouflage, same with bedsheets I believed
The salt is for when the mixture drys the salt crystallises which turns white
Salt probably crystallized the mixture in the temperature and evaporated off the moisture.
You forgot the white bed sheet poncho held down with webbed gear that the US Army troops used as snow camo.
The salt crystalizes and literally coats anything in white.
Als die Wehrmacht keinen Sprit mehr hatte, das Wetter aufklarte zerstörtebdie alliierte Luftwaffe ohne Gegner zu haben, alles. Das war eine große Leistung.
Battle of the "Bulge" 😂😂😂 oh man I thought I was going to die of laughing!!! Oh man keep up the good humor and content!
the british where very prepared camo wise for the battle of the bulge
This channel is awesome
After the head turn I'm waiting for,
"I'm doing my part!"
Just mix chalk with water then put the mixture on whatever
In extreme cold urine on the helmet will do the same thing. This was a method used on the Eastern Front by both sides.
They used brooms to paint the tanks as well.
Loved the video!
Salt, lime...what no drinkers out there? Where's the margarita/tequila shot jokes?
Serious face: as a resident of the "Salt belt" up here in the Northeastern Atlantic states, Salt spray stays on vehicles quite effectively. That's the #1 reason to wash your car in winter. To get it off and stop its corrosive effects on unpainted metal.
And as a frequent viewer of military history vids, this is new to me! Love it.
Perhaps they used salt to prevent ice from forming on the vehicle’s while it dried. Or to make it look more like snow
All of the above plus it’s an electrolyte that helps with powder coat bonding galvanizing etc.. give a gun barrel or steel helmet a negative charge and a coating will stick on better but you’d also need something like zinc which he didn’t mention
I think the salt helped it to keep from freezing in the cold weather. If it freezes before it dries it will just fall off.
You've got your "Shorts" cadence down pat
Salt might’ve been to help prevent frost from forming on the equipment.
I could imagine this guy on the field in ww2 walking in the middle of no man's land talking to a weird rock
Also people made chalk into a power, mixed it with water and put it on their helmets.
I love your videos so much :)
Thank you!
I’m fairly Bastogne’d right now… so I got a good chuckle at the Battle of The Bulge Pun 👌🤟😉
I’ve seen photos of lace curtains and sheets given by the Belgians to cover tanks.
Some guy spilling his margarita: “holy shit I have an idea”
Lime, concrete. Exceptional dad joke
From what I’ve learned in German reenacting German soldiers would use a mixture of chalk and water to paint their helmets white, though I’m unsure what they used for other winter camouflages. Hope this helps!
Yep, it's been stated numerous times in the comments, but thanks!
Ever notice how the soldiers out in the field manage to fix their problems and for cheap. But when the guys back home try to fix the problem it expensive as hell and not always guaranteed to work.
I think the salt helps sand it down and add more surface area for the liquid to stick too. Idk tho
The salt would make the ice colder on the helmet since it absorbs liquid it would make the ice dryer therefore it would be colder and last longer
And somehow a camo pattern today costs billions of dollar
And here I thought it was just that cold that a layer of ice formed on the helmets and vehicles lol
Germans used both lime and chalk or mixtures thereof to camo their helmets.
My grandfather was there, wouldn't talk about it though. Or any part of the war, was kind of disappointing. But it was war and I'm sure he didn't want to relive it by talking about it...