You know what is worst than lip-syncing? It is frequently unprofessional lip-syncing I can accept aespa (or any other groups) lip syncing for the rest of their career due to whatever reasons, but they can at least do it professionally from time to time. Little things the openess of the mouthshape; timing; facial expression; remembering to lip syncing to your parts, serious will to do the lip syncing, etc. They matter, cause if you cant get them right, the performances become illogical. It is annoying to watch something illogical. Let alone underwhelming dancing. About the "aespa being the punching bag", i can somewhat agree with you base on ppl reactions. For me, if i ever catch unprofessional lip syncing stages from any idol groups (famous or not), especially if the groups repeat the mistakes frequently, i will just complain the same way i complain aespa's lip syncing.
Honestly, I think Aespa members are tired of not singling love. At Coachella, Ningning literally looked so happy to be able to sing. Not singing live at all can greatly impact a group’s presence
@@ryanostone22 your comment actually makes me wonder that if frequent lip syncing is a prominent part of their contract or not. I mean, if frequent lip syncing isnt a fix part of the contract + aespa isnt aware of & signed up for it + is just a SM's dirty media play for the first few years, i hope the girls are strong enough to cope with the time being and rise in the future where they get to show off their talents and effort. But if consistent lip syncing is a vital part of their contract due to the group's abilities, company preferences or initial concept (like Perfume who do lip syncing 90% of their career due to their techno robot/manequin concept) then aespa should really change their attitude toward lip syncing and practice for it cause they have signed up and agreed with that.
the conversation around aespa and lip syncing is not even solely about the lip syncing anymore - it’s also about the fact that they don’t typically put on engaging performances on top of that. this became a bigger issue recently with their performances at the korean university festival. and yes, other idols have lip synced and will continue to lip sync for certain performances, but it is not the norm to say that a group has only sang live once in their nearly two year career. 🥴 if fans enjoy it, whatever, but the group is not above criticism and others are allowed to voice their thoughts and opinions on public performances.
I think the reason their performances are no longer engaging is because they don’t want to lipsync. They look bored because they are. They aren’t treated like singers and it sucks to see talented idols not being able to prove themselves because their company doesn’t let them sing live
Agree and the fact that all of them are actually pretty solid vocalists make this even more dumb tbh , ningning is probably the 4th best vocalist in 4th gen , winter is one of the strongest if not the strongest lead vocalist in this gen , karina is the strongest famale sub vocalist ever probably :) she is almost on par with rose from bp yes that's how good she is , and yet they don't let them sing live :) , I mean why did they train them then ? Ningning spend her whole life training vocaly just to lipsync ? I think that's one of tge reasons why they look like they don't want to performe at all .. anyways I don't think sm care that much about this topic esp that it did not effect their popularty that much , their album "girls " just sold 1 million copy in one week making them the only 4th gg with 1 milllion pre orders for one album , and the 2nd gg in kpop overall to reach this number :) .. so yeah despite their lip sync , lack of strong stage presence , the music slaps and they are doing great , so I don't see this changing . Also sm is making all their idols lip sync those days , even taeyeon lip synced all her invu performances despite her being a true vocalist :) Its weird tbh . I'm a fan of aespa but tbh , I don't like their performances that much :) Sorry for my english
Personally i don't care that they don't sing live. I enjoy the music just as much. I cannot be the only one. Especially since their concept is more like a cyber one. Like it's not the same music as, say, izone. I don't feel the need to hear the live version. I am pretty sure SM thought it through! They planned their concept to be like this, they thought we would be okay without the live singing and personally i am.
I agree so much, especially with Iz*one stuff like Wiz*one should let girls re-debut and stop hating on other IVE and Le Sserafim members. Also I think comments like 'It's not The same' or 'She is bad soloist, was better in Iz*one are Produce' and rude and bad
I think the thing with Loona not winning Queendom, a lot of orbits were mad not because Mnet rigged it for WJSN, but because Mnet literally denied Loona an entire round of points. When they all got covid Mnet could have postponed the show or found some other way to give Loona a fair chance in the first round, but they straight up just put them in 6th place with 0 points apart from video stream views and acted as if it was Loona's fault for not doing better. It set them back for the entire show, they came 5th overall in prelim rounds when they literally came in either 2nd or 3rd place every following round (every other 6th place ranking at least got a decent few points, nothing near 0). That, as far as I know, is what orbits were angry about. Had they received the points they would have gotten for the first round, there was a chance they could have won the whole show. I don't think Mnet rigged it for WJSN to win, but for the most part I didn't see that that was what orbits were mad about.
@@miya-ms5bx the reason wjsn placed over viviz is bc of the streaming rules. People didn't stream correctly from the playlist so viviz got more streams but they weren't counted
I think it would've been impossible to postpone the first round because it's very likely the group got tested in order to perform and if I recall correctly, they were announced with COVID only two or three days before the recording took place. Which means they probably had already sold tickets, secured the venue and staged everything already for the performances. Yes, it's unfair that they didn't get points but at least they still managed to get second place and the popularity rise from the show! What I've seen some Orbits do tho, is to blame WJSN and call them untalented/undeserving when imo it's not the case at all
@@itstwicebitch2168 This has been easily debunked by netizens. WJSN streams would have to be nearly perfect for that to have worked and that's simply not true
Idols like being on camera even if we don’t think it. They may not like a lot of the things that come with it, but they still wanted to be celebrities. Txt Soobin is about as quiet and modest as it gets, but he talked about how he absolutely LOVES being on camera and having the lights and attention on himself, even if he’s shy when they’re not there. Is he a narcissist? Hell no, he just knows what he likes, went for it, and is honestly admitting that he feels great being on camera.
The thing about why Aespa stands out for their constant lipsyncing is because they have so much success and are considered one of the top 4th gen groups, so it is incredibly disappointing that they rarely sing. Personally, I think live singing is a really important part of being a Kpop group.
Solid opinions I agreed with most if not all of these , I can see why orbits would be disappointed since if not for what happened in round 1 they likely would have won queendom but seeing the amount of people not only complain about losing but also immediately try to put blame on wjsn or starship definitely made me feel embarrassed for orbits
the way this never happened actually and orbits were just mad at mnet because viviz did magically lose points too in the final ranking so. yeah. its embarassing for yall little non orbits to just assume shit
I think the issue with aespa is that even that we know they can sing they just barely sing. There is a difference between lip syncing from time to time and genuinely not singing live at all, even the members don’t put in the effort in lip syncing because they (to me) look sick of it. Ive is a group that also mostly uses pre recorded tracks but they most of the time have 2-4 live stages every era. Whereas with aespa there has not been a live era excluding coachella. Hate is never good tho but i think it’s also because the members don’t really put in the effort in the lip syncing
No, you are so right about company privilege! I still remember everybody had a countdown for Blackpink to debut and streamed Boombayah like crazy. Like, the girls were already so famous that every one cried for a rookie group to comeback for a year after they had debuted. The later fans of the groups always make stupid shit about the group and make their own narrative, like blinks saying they are treated bad (they were never!), armys saying BTS was never taken seriously- like armys weren't the target of the biggest boy band fans at that time and all their comeback breaking records like crazy. Same thing about orbits too. LOONA is getting famous in S.Korea's gp only recently. So it would not surprising for WSJN to be 1st-... they are getting a bit cocky atp..
I wouldn't say bts weren't taken seriously it was more like when they debuted they had a decent fanbase but when they started becoming big in like 2015-16 the stans of a lot of groups tried sabotaging them, and yes every group receives a certain amount of hate but the hate they received and still do is just crazy tbh
Blackpink did get a lot of shit though, you had literal blacjacks under their posts saying they didn't care and that they wanted 2ne1. Now did all the yg fandoms hate them at the time, absolutely not but blackjacks were mad bitter and still are to this very day.
@@nelenalove247 y'all fanwars are normal atp.. in every fandom there are people who hate other idols.. so stop with the "this fandom hated this group because of this and that reason“ narrative..
I mean, if you didn’t watch queendom, then you wouldn’t understand why orbits are mad lol. Being the most famous in Korea didn’t mean anything, cuz Loona won first from live audience votes 2 times, and wjsn only once. And Loona literally, like literally would’ve won queendom, if mnet had given them points for round 1. Even if they had gotten 6th place, it would’ve still been enough to win. Loona got covid, and mnet let them perform, but decided not to give them any points. They said they would, but never did. Thats why orbits are mad at mnet. And as for wjsn….. I can understand why orbits are mad. Ok, so after each performance, the groups are supposed to say which team did worse and better than them, and Wjsn continuously downvoted Loona almost every time. They said it was “a strategy”. It also affects points too. And their’s a round where they perform for fans. It’s called FANdora. So, Loona performed Butterfly, a very meaningful song to orbits and Loona. When it was time to choose who did worse, wjsn chose them as the worse team because their performance was “nothing special”😐. And then just for Loona to lose unfairly to wjsn, yeah, I can definitely understand.
On the company privilege topic, when it comes to the Big 3, they’re always talked about no matter what because their seniors always do well, but not every group does well due to a senior. April didn’t do well compared to Kara, I love April DONT get me wrong but no one can deny that having a 7 year long career with not one win compared to Kara who were active for 9 years and had a hugely successful career in Korea and Japan showed that having a successful senior can show no success. T-ara is another example, despite the bullying accusations, T-ara did really well before the scandal, but groups following them go unnoticed like DIA. DIA still has barely gotten any recognition, they got their first win in 2018 but haven’t gotten one win since then. Some groups take longer to get successful despite having famous seniors, such as groups like Monsta X and WJSN, who both got their first wins 2 years after their debut despite having Sistar as their senior artist. It truly just depends on the company, Big 3 company artists will always blow up pretty fast like Twice, Blackpink, Red Velvet, etc. , groups from companies with highly successful senior artists outside of the Big 3 will get some attention but usually get no attention at all and go unrecognized for their whole career.
As you mentioned Monsta X, I also think Cravity got a lot of hype because of their seniors, but they didn't because their music wasn't great 😅 Now Adrenaline got seen by the gp so I hope that comeback will pave a bright future for them ☺️
April ruined themselves and dsp media is garbage at management and dsp is not a big company so is starship company, yes they had one or two successful artists but that’s it, they are not per se big “companies” on the other hand big hit, YG, sm, jyp are actually truely big companies with huge marketing and scouting teams whose one job is to get the idols to the public and make them sellable. Period. These idols are made over, head to toe. They take etiquette classes and speaking classes and are taught what sells and how they can be appealing. So they sell and are always sellable
to be fair viviz has the biggest domestic fandom thanks to all the k-buddys but yeah wjsn comes in second place there and even before the show started they had some of the strongest chances to win, plus they went all out for queendom and proved themselves, my first pick was viviz but i'm so proud and happy for them like they seriously deserve this win
People are so mad that WJSN won like.. get a hobby, WJSN delivered the best performances alongside Hyolyn. And let's be honest, WJSN needed this win. Starship is letting them in shambles and treating them like theyre non-existent compared to some of their other artists. The performances or aura and pantomime got me to stan actually. I'm so excited for their comeback in july. It will be my first one as a fan. I think other fandoms try to being wjsn down and say x was more popular y had more streams etc. But wjsn's fandom, despite being smaller, is very organized as I noticed. I'm really happy they won and I hope starships focuses on them now as well. They're super talented and their discography is oen of the best discographies i've heard at a gen3 group.
@@varbzrepresentative57 there are multiple cases of orbits discrediting wuju's win and spewing hate towards the girls especially towards exy , please get real
It’s not even most orbits hating on wjsn. But I can see why they would. Wjsn was downvoting Loona the entire show, “as a strategy”, and then just for them to win, cuz Loona got covid? Wjsn doesn’t deserve the hate, but I can understand why some orbits are mad. Apart from that, most orbits are mad at mnet for not giving Loona points in round 1 for getting covid.
People don't realize that talking 24/7 about aespa, even in the worst way possible, still gives them exposure. aespa's fandom has grown tremendously and is still growing, and one reason for that is that people just can't stop talking about them 😁
In kpop stans world, getting constant hate trains means being relevant enough to have people massively hate you, aespa are on the way to be one of the most popular groups and people are not happy about it
As an orbit, I'm annoyed with orbits. Even on platforms where they're typically more chill, people were still having blood out for WJSN like... I don't see this as a lose? WJSN got something great out of it, Loona was put into the public eye where they hadn't been before. It's frustrating to see so many people go to ridiculous lengths to call out MNET for something they didn't even do.
aespa doesn’t deserve hate but we should defo call out the lip syncing respectfully. all other 4th gen groups have sung live more than once in their careers! we’re asking SM for the bare minimum and yet they can’t provide that. even with minimal choreo they still lip sync! all SM artists do now, but aespa gets the brunt of it bc they’re considered the “best vocalists of the 4th gen”. If someone can’t sing live i’d rather they lip sync and focus on performance, but we know aespa CAN sing live, but they just don’t, which pisses me off even more. Also a lot of people say they lack stage presence so it’s like, if you’re not gonna sing what’s the point of this live performance 🙄 it seems SM is really lazy, and knows they can put no effort into live performances these days and people will still eat it up
What many fans don't understand about big company privilege is that the groups can get more attention at the start of their career because of the company, but retain that attention because of their talent. Of course, marketing plays a big role as well, but you can't make up for talent with only marketing. So yes, they had some help at the start and proved to be deserving of all the attention
I definitely agree with company privilege, but there's a limit to it, especially when it comes to Red Velvet. They're very much under promoted, and underestimated by SM. Maybe for debut and rookie years, yes company privilege is a thing, but after that, it's up to the artist and the fanbase to establish themselves as leaders in kpop. Like you have groups outside of the big 3 or 4 of you count Hybe, that are doing great if not better than big 4 groups. Marketing is extremely important, and that's something SM lacks for Red Velvet.
The reason people make company privilege a big deal is because these fools ONLY apply it to TXT while ignoring the Big 3 when JYP had NMIxx sell a whole 60K albums without their line up or songs being revealed months before debut.
Kpop Stan's have been talking about big3 privilege since like during 2gen calling each big3 Group overrated and all ( I don't know where you get that the big3 were ignored ) ..now bighit became huge of course their newer Group will face it too
@@BhaktManomandirVihariniUma Agree with both you but it's true some 4th bg fandom from big3 groups are treating their favs like underdogs like for exemple some Stays. Dude, Skz are a big 3 group
txt is a privileged group and both moas and txt have been accepting that fact since debut. But people really like to act like they are the only group who gets all the attention because they are bts juniors this when all the groups under big3 are privileged too. there double standards starts showing when the call txt l**ches, lil brothers and what not
the one with wjsn winning and loona losing, orbits were mad that mnet didn’t give loona the points they promised to give after round 1 since loona weren’t present. But orbits are acting like WJSN/ujungs planned it all out. We all know it’s unfair, and as you said mnet wouldn’t favor a group under starship ent. WJSN won queendom and they worked as hard as loona and they definitely deserve the win.
@@byeolie6505 I've seen it on Twitter too which is why I actually don't know if it's true or not 😭 I watched every episode of Q2 as it aired and even checked the official Mnet Twitter several times to apply for the Global Viewer (which I got in once!) So I'm trying to remember if that happened for real (them saying they would give points for round one) or if Orbits are just creating that narrative and spreading the word when it's not true
@@isismarielys4821 @byeolie sorry this is really late lol. there was a news article of mnet statement about getting a professional panel to give points for loona's round 1 performance but it did not happen after the airing of the episode where they had taeyeon suggest that loona should have a chance to show their performance but without tha audience votes
You know the only thing cringier than orbits? Haters who takes orbits too seriously. There's no orbits that treated that rigged thing THAT seriously. They were just fcking with fandoms mind. Proof is that they already got over it. Sounds like y'all are just looking for new reasons to hate on orbits... Again
That is so messed up you know. That is even worse you think you are "just joking" but what about the artists who are involved. I literally saw Orbits insulting WSJN on a video and the insults were so bad. Do you think that is just messing around? Do you ever think of a persons feeling when you write that terrible comment or is it an I will kill you, I am just joking teehee
@@laetitiac9890 ok... i'm done with the extreme exemples on each debates with kpop stans. that's all you do and that's how the "stan loona" became the worst thing ever... because of 10% of the fanbase which is a direct callback to my last sentence of the 1st comment . show me the link of the video you're talking about and the so-offensive-comment too.
they didn’t rig queendom to favor wjsn. they rigged it to hurt loona’s chances of winning. as another comment mentioned, they were given 0 chances of participating in the first round for something that wasn’t even their fault. mnet could’ve scheduled around it or something, but i guess having a contender on your show get covid isn’t a valid excuse to do that. if mnet worked around it or something loona could’ve easily gotten first
@@beemomybeemo6815 the hell are you on about. they’re aren’t working 9-5. they still performed, they were promised participation points and were never given them. MNET said it themselves. i just know it drives you crazy that loona would’ve won queendom if they had even got last place points
I really don't understand how anyone can think that there is no company privilege. It's obvious that debuting in one of the most famous companies will theoretically allow you to be more successful than if you were debuting in a lesser known company. Why is that? I guess a big company has more budget, and more possibilities to expand your potential to the maximum (even if they will probably lead you to overwork): they have (globally) better training for you (deduction because most of the "most talented" idols in singing, dancing and rapping come from big agencies), better concepts (especially SM and JYP), better quality songs and MVs etc... On top of that, the more famous your agency is, the more visibility you get. Conclusion: there is definitely a privilege related to being in a big compagny. However, this does not mean that idols working in big agencies work less, and are less worthy of respect! It's precisely great to be able to get to work there, considering the competitiveness.
Yea I’m def a company stan (the 1st kind lol don’t worry) for jyp bc I stan twice, itzy, nmixx, and I want to stan niziu and I always look out for what jyp is offering in terms of girl groups!!
I also felt like i lost my respect towards orbits when the Queendom 2 winners were announced. The chat was full of words like "flop" directed at WJSN. I get being disappointed but don't bash any participants omg
About Aespa getting a bunch of hate, I don't think it's the fact that they lip sync, it's the fact that they lip sync on EVERY SINGLE STAGE (well before Cochella) and they don't give stage presence when doing so (again we're talking about before Cochella). I just feel like a almost 2 year old group should at least have one stage (Inkigayo MCountdown etc) that they sing live WHILE DANCING. Also to people who defend them saying that they don't have stage presence is because of SM not letting them sing live and has Cochella as "proof", stop lying to yourself. It's not about singing live or not it's the literal fact that having stage presence is a part of doing their job as idols. If they usually lack stage presence but suddenly get the presence back in a big event, that's means that they are not engaging into their job, which is why people give hate to them.
OMG yes about the problematic one its so true i cant stand it when people deny their talent just because of scandals i mean i probably dont like them but not to the point i blindly deny their talent
Why do i always agree with all of your opinions ??? 😭😭 Your opinions are sometimes something i wanna just say but can't say because of the toxic community
I’ve loved WJSN since their debut and the same with LOONA so me the start of their project so it really irritates me hearing the whole Queendom/FAN Situation like people really need to learn how to chill
Just because your favorite idol is problematic doesn't mean you have to unstan them or else you'll look like you support their actions. What you have to do is acknowledge their wrongdoings and hold them accountable for it. What you have to do is try your best to spread the word over their wrong actions so that it reaches them. Some idols are in bad companies and they can't help it, the companies will dodge all the accusations and not let the idol speak about them, you don't know your idols personally so you don't know if they learnt from their wrong actions or not, if they mean to hurt people with them or not. You can still love them and talk about them and enjoy their content, but be mindful of what wrong they did. Garam's situation is a clusterfuck. Every second new proof comes, every second new proof is debunked. Hybe is silencing her and putting her in a hiatus, and we can't know if she was truly a bad person or not. We have no idea on what's going behind the cameras, so always be mindful and careful when you want to talk about her scandal. And she's super talented and pretty, saying this is NOT supporting her bullying. As relieved I am she's on a hiatus now, I have to admit her voice was super fitting for lesserafim. She is not my bias nor a wrecker, and I'm super happy eunchae got to sing her chorus, but I still have to admit it was basically made for Kim garam.
I mean... I wouldn't really want to stan someone who is a bully...for now though, staying neutral is best choice for Garam case even though I'm 99.9% sure Hybe is just going to pay the "victim" and make negotiations so as not to ruin Le Sserafim's reputation, which is already too late since most people already see Garam as a stain in the group, that's just my opinion though
yeah even though i'm not her fan nor do i stan her or lesserafim but i would agree that the intro was made for her yunjin's voice doesn't sound that good
Red Velvet is, probably, the best girl group exist right now for the concepts alone. Yet if they weren't under a big company, we will be fighting everyday to prove that to the world.
And they don’t even care that Loona lost they are mad the fact that mnet didn’t give them their points in the first round so check your facts y’all K-pop CZcamsrs be trying to have clout so bad
The company Stan one 1000% for SM and JYP cause some of their new groups are not slaying but people will defend them to the ends of the earth when they don’t even know them
Don't perceive me wrong pls everyone in queendom deserved the crown however the thing is it's true that wjsn had a big chance of winning since the beginning but they were almost last in streams and votes, but had more unique listeners than viviz and almost has much with a very narrow difference from loona even tho they have less than half of Loona's monthly listeners on Spotify and somehow were second in the last voting even though they did bad in fan's choice voting?? When you do the math it just sounds weird and it doesn't help with the whole thing of Loona not receiving any points on the first round. A lot of orbits were disrespectful and awful and lost all of the reason but I think it's still something to be pondered and you shouldn't discard the possibility even more because it's obvious mnet has made peace with starship since ive's debut and if they hadn't they wouldn't have invited wjsn to queendom. It's over now and there's nothing anyone can do about it people also shouldn't take a survival show to seriously to the point of slandering others online but pls don't discard and say orbits are being delusional when it's certainly weird certain aspects
i agreeee im an orbit and twitter was a mess for a couple days some orbits were being horrible to wjsn when it’s not even their fault, however i don’t think the possibility of it being rigged should be ignored because so many things don’t add up, i’m not denying the fact the wjsn worked hard it’s just odd plus the fact that loona didn’t win any points for r1 when if given those points they would’ve won makes me a little upset. but i mean it’s done now and i’m honestly over it, hopefully both loona and wjsn are doing well
@@miya-ms5bx Well, I hope we're finally reaching the point where everyone has cancelled Mnet already because I can't name a single good thing they did in the past couple of years XD Oh well, I hope all groups (and Hyolyn) who participated in Queendom will have successful comebacks 💖
I was watching queendom finale live and after wjsn won, there were a lot of ujungs saying shit like, "thank god loona didn't win, otherwise orbits would've gotten cockier" and so on. A lot of shit is thrown at orbits but people forget that literally every fandom has 'good' and 'bad' fans and every fandom wants their groups to do well. In my opinion, as someone who watched the finale live, I found wjsn's performance (for the final round) very underwhelming. Their pantomime stage was great, but aura just didn't match, it was basic and forgettable after the little intro bit with seola. I liked loona and hyolyn's stage. Hyolyn's was the best performance-wise, she put on a real show it was great! And I really liked loona's vibe/concept. Throughout Queendom they dabbled in every genre-- historical for round 1, jazzy/musical for round 2, ballad + sensual for round 3 pt 1, heartwarming/fairy-like for round 3 pt 2 and finally rogue, villainous for the finale. I liked that ❤️☺️
Company privilege is real once the group is formed, but it’s much harder to get in the group in these label. Trainees from smaller companies have an easier time reaching debut, its after debut that they have to work the hardest, with an SM trainee they have a very difficult road to make it into a group, so it’s fair that they have it easier after debut as far as finding a solid fan base.
Queendom was such a mess and I'm not even surprised it just sucks because you can tell all the groups respect one another but ofc the fuckin fans have to ruin the enjoyment of it. Kpop fans cannot handle competition in the slightest every single survival show competition based show. Don't get me wrong Mnet are snakes and Loona should have gotten those first round points but how the fans have acted through out all of queendom is gross and orbits can deny it all they want but I have seen posts absolutely being disgusting towards WJSN all because they gave their own personal opinion on a COMPETITION SHOW. If you thought Loona had the best performance cool great fantastic but these idols were there to compete and if you can't handle other people not praising the ground your favs walk on you need serious help because kpop should never get to the point you're harassing and being down right disgusting towards idols you don't even know bro go touch some grass that goes for how every fandom was acting during queendom.
that’s not why some people were upset we were upset because wjsn were basically targeting loona and voting them down every chance they got. it was a bit off putting to me, someone who ults loona and was looking to stan wjsn after queendom…. especially since exy’s reasonings were kinda bs in my opinion.
@@Natalie-gm5po Once again this was a competition show every single group was there to compete and that's what they did. I'm sorry WJSN wasn't worshipping the ground Loona walks on but that is no reason for how some orbits have been acting towards WJSN. I love Loona and people don't have to agree with what WJSN said but at the end of day they had to choose which group performance they didn't enjoy I'm sorry if that hurt orbits egos but yall need to get over it or just stop watching competition shows because it's clear majority of fans can't handle it. Be upset but that doesn't excuse bullying WJSN that's disgusting.
@@PinBall0 you’re exaggerating to make your point look stronger bc I never said they have to “worship the ground loona walks on”. all I said was that it’s off putting how wjsn chose loona at every chance they got only because it put THEM at an advantage. I would have preferred if they picked honestly because come on now… loona were the only group wjsn ever picked as below them throughout the show.
@@Natalie-gm5po oh yeah it's always 'exaggeration' when a fandoms bs gets called out 🙄. I never said you said they need to worship loona I'm saying most orbits are getting offended because WJSN gave their own personal opinion and before your say 'tHaTs nOt tRuE' I'm an orbit myself so I have seen the bs that has been going on. If you are on a competition show you will take whatever advantage you can get that's the whole point you do you have to agree with what is said? No but when you start harassing the idols competing for that opinion yeah no embarrassing. Idols are actual human beings with actual thoughts and opinions who would of guessed right? Kpop fans want idols to be more open and honest but the moment they are yall can't handle it. I don't even stan WJSN but they don't deserve to be harassed by orbits with hurt feelings 🤷🏽♀️ same goes for all fandoms if you couldn't handle queendom it's nobodies else's fault you couldn't handle it. Have a great day.
@@PinBall0 dude im not like tripping over myself and dying because wjsn downvoted loona at every opportunity I don’t even care that much anymore. I don’t think wjsn deserve hate but I think they shouldn’t have held loona to unreachable standards bc that was their reasoning a lot of the time for down voting them.
I think the lip synching thing became big bc their fans set them up. Literally had someone argue with me that they always sing live on insta. Plus their performances tend to be lack luster overall. Some members look like they don’t want to be their sometimes. But the 180 that happened at Coachella though!! I think live singing would help them as rookies to give better performances and have better stage presence.
i also heard that some orbits were saying horrible things about wonho after he voted and told his fans to vote for wjsn… like they called him a homophobic slur…
They did. They did this, joked about killing the WJSN girls, joked about how Exy was the one who gave Loona covid (people making jokes about Covid like that it's never funny to me shm), they are such a lovely fandom to be around... Except they aren't.
@@framboesa185 not all of us are like that, don't paint all of us orbits as toxic. Every fandom has a toxic side to it. We all don't even accept those orbits into the fandom, they are antis trying to put a bad rep on loona and us orbits.
@@jasminn4480 yes, i shouldve said that, i'm sorry. I realized only now that i didn't said that it was bad people/bad orbit doing this And yes, every fandom has a toxic part. It's just sad that most of them don't recognize this. I was an orbit. I only started to watch Queendom for Loona and I don't really think WJSN was the best (neither Loona, tbh), I just couldnt stay after Queendom. However, yes, i should've made it clear that i was not talking about all orbits, I'm really sorry.
i feel like izone fans wont shut up about how much they miss izone. like, they arent dead, they are still out there doing smth they like idk why for every group that debuts with an ex izone member has comments praising izone or mentioning it like pls shut up idc. (this is just my opinion idk if anyone else feels this way)
Company privilege is real, but then again, the fact that they debuted in that company means they faced bigger hardships compared to other companies, so they deserve the privilege
@@user-xy7ci3ep2v being more talented doesn't mean they faced life as hard in big 3. For example, maybe they had monthly evaluations yes, but there were like 10 trainees, so even debuting if you had talent was guaranteed. But big 3 has more trainees, and remember, they don't even need to debut you, cause they are already making money So as I said, they deserve the company privilege. And being an idol isn't all about talent. And also, even some of those talented idols from other companies might have trained at the big 3 so really
i think alot of ppl constantly spoke abt aespa lip syncing because it was very noticealble nd it was also noticable tht they werent even trying to pretened theyre not lip syncing along side w their kinda boring stage presence (not all the times ) it was just added to the list of complaints ppl had for aespa but its fine now singe theyre stage presence is getting better and they do sing live these days so yea !!
orbits aren't saying mnet favours WJSN, we're saying they clearly put Loona at a disadvantage by giving them no points on the first round... and yes, Loona would've won if it wasn't for that
For the izone opn : You know there's something called improvement right...? I know kpop stans tend to forget about it but it happens that when an idol debut, they actually have nothing hidden... THEY JUST LACKED, improved and ended up showing more after d*
The issue with Aespa is that before coachella they hace NEVER sing live. At least other groups they sing live at least twice in a comeback. And the fact that they were from SM The fact they have no stage presence. It just make it more obvious
I agree on some, but i really hate survival shows even if i know why they are so popular and well watched. I agree that there are groups that do benefit from their big 3 privilege, but on the other hand some of these groups from big companies are basically left on their own and made to do almost everything themselves and then the company gets the benefits if they become popular or the group gets blamed if they dont succeed. Ex. From my group skz i do believe they got a lot of attention as a jyp group and while people who hear that the group was formed by the leader and they write their own songs might think "oh what privilege and what freedom and opportunities" but on the other hand it's immense pressure on the group.
The Orbitz bit had me click so fast ha. Regardless of who won, queendom got me to look more into both WJSN and Loona, whereas before they were kind of just on my peripheral. But all of the salty loona comments throughout the whole thing has made it very difficult to fully get into Loona still. I have had many groups dear to me in the past lose competitions and I may have even felt they were cheated in some way, but that is just notttt the way to handle that. All these Orbitz are doing is just pushing away so many more potential new fans, you are actually doing Loona a major disservice.
3:20 omg YES. Finally someone says this!! People need to stop denying that company privilege exists, and that big 3 groups (mostly 4th gen groups) have a larger fanbase than non-big 3 groups because of the fact they come from a big company. Like, of course they also have great music which can bring a pretty lot of fans, but it’s also, undeniably, due to the fact they’re from very successful companies.
And if you didn’t know it it has been confirm That Loona was supposed to be in first viviz was supposed to be in second and wjsn was supposed to be in third
People talk about aespa lipsyncing because they bring nothing else to the table. They don’t have amazing stage presence AND they can’t sing live? It’s a bad look
WJSN doesn't have a stronger domestic fandom than VIVIZ. People always agree that GFRIEND is one of the biggest gg's but when the situation isn't in their favour they pull the "GFRIEND isn't that popular" Card
the aespa lip syncing situation is only big because mys argue with almost every fandom on twitter so it’s get brought up… i saw mys fight with midzys because somi stan’s shaded itzy and they wanted to jump in on it, also mys have been trying to drag red velvet since aespa debuted so that one of the reasons why it get brought up a lot…
Most Orbits are mad at Mnet cause they didn't give LOONA score. Like what was the point in performing PTT in Queendom2 ?? I'm genuinely curious I watched the last episode of queendom2 live and yeah there were some toxic Orbits but sometimes people exaggerate like there even people who couldn't stop with Toxic Orbits narrative
For the company opinion, I can totally agree. Like before NMIXX's debut, people were able to pre-order their album without knowing ANYTHING about the group, not how many members, not any songs, nothing. And just because it's JYP's new girl group, thousands of people pre-ordered the album. I'm not saying that NMIXX is not talented or don't deserve it but I think this example proves that the company an artist debuts under matters a lot for their future success
personally i dont care that aespa lip syncs. alot of groups have lip synced before, and while i do prefer live vocals over lip syncing, it really doesnt matter. its really not a crime to lip sync so ppl should stop treating it like it is
majority of orbits weren’t claiming that mnet rigged queendom in favor of wjsn I think that was like 2 or 3 people. The rest of us were upset about the points they’ve missed out on during round 1 and were promised to earn back.
Here’s my thing with “Big 3 privilege” specifically for Red Velvet and other SM girl groups. They have the privilege that allows them a wide audience, but having stanned RV since day 1, SM girl groups get unnecessary hate from the public for months, if not the first few years until there is someone else to take that attention. RV had a bigger jumping off point, but they worked hard to get where they are, especially with people out here constantly trying to bring them down and claim they’re not as popular or not as good as Twice or BlackPink 🙄 I think that was a poor example. They would’ve been just as famous from another label, I think, or at least close because of their talent. Look at Mamamoo. Super popular and not from a big 3 company. It’s not necessarily delusional to think that.
the one about the agencies!!!! YES. GO OFF. some company stans would see their faves get mistreated and mismanaged and still call said label a good label when they're not. how stupid can you be to think there's a good agency? some might not be as bad as spme others, but no label is 100% innocent so i would like for kpop stans to quit worshipping agencies like they're gods cause it's embarrassing and ridiculous.
I think orbits are mad cuz mnet didn't wait for loona in the first round and give them 0 point and this is the only reason of not being the winner in queendom, if mnet gave loona at leat 400 point or I don't know how much the 6th place should got here can be bigger chance for loona to win the show
I HATE Orbits who send dts and make wjsn look like the bad one. Remember, not all Orbits are blaming wjsn, most are blaming mnet. (And maybe COVID) I'm an orbit too so I just hate it when a portion of Orbits say hurtful things and make it look like everyone in the orbit fandom is trash.
The thing about aespa lip syncing is that they never sing live in these performances. Other groups or soloists at least sing live in one performance per comeback
the wizone/izone is 100% true like ok we all miss iz*one but they need to stfu already and hyewon is actually a good vocalist and can sing well which even mr as a hyewon stan did not know. also all the girls were so mistreated like the songs were too high and they were unfair with some members so them disbanding is a blessing in disguise and wiz*one need to realize that cause we got so much amazing music from the girls and everyone is getting the recognition they deserve and doing what they love (i mean some of them do deserve bettter and even wiz*ones arent supporting them except when they mention iz*one or the members aka eunbi, and we all now know 90% of wiz*ones hated hyewon cause most didnt even acknowledge her music or activities and keep saying she is doing nothing other than youtube) BTW STREAM AND LISTEN TO "LIKE A DIAMOND" BY KANG HYEWON AND STELLA JANG COMING OUT TOMORROW 🙏😊
the fact that missing round 1 impacted them so badly makes everything orbits did to catch up useless because they never had a chance at winning from the start. orbits have a right to be mad at that. it wasnt even just orbits claiming it was rigged, a big portion were from viviz fans too but of course you wouldnt mention that because that doesnt align with your narrative.
you clearly haven’t done any research when it comes to the qd rigging allegations. you say that sse and mnet are on bad terms but why would sse send wjsn to an mnet show? looks like someone became friends again, bc lets not forget that sse was heavily involved in the rigging of produce. also when it comes to the digital scores, you can clearly see that the numbers don’t add up. loona and wjsn had almost the same amount of points, only 300 difference meaning that either all of wjsn streams were ul and HALF of loonas were ul, or that half of wjsn were ul and a quarter for loona. this makes no sense if you think about fandom sizes, and do you mean that not a single ujung streamed the song more than once? that’s ridiculous
in my opinions the most infuriating thing about aespa lip syncing is that we know they can sing so whyyyyyyyy are they not singing like i bet they want to but it’s just SME’s problem
The thing is, loona are the true winners, orbits are wrong for saying mnet rigged the show but I think they are just trolling and I do think its kind of unfair that loona did not get any points for round 1 since they could not help getting covid, like it was out of their control. If they even got 5th place in round 1 they would've won and that's why orbits are upset and frustrated.
@@kamillathorsholt201 I mean I would too if a other group aka wjsn literally picked loona as the worse group for no real reason just to get an advantage in the competition
about the 4th opinion ngl i pin all the blame on MY's if they didn't keep on claiming that they were the best vocalists they wouldn't have gotten this much hate they go through other vocalists videos and keep saying ningning or winter or karina or giselle is the best vocalists leading some other scumbags insulting aespa and eventually making them hate aespa because MY's suck also i dont mind them lip syncing its totally fine its to preserve their vocals after all but it doesn't mean they shouldn't at least sing their songs live once i mean im not blaming the girls im blaming SM because its their fault also I'm kinds mad at them for sending aespa to MAMA or to perform at big events like Coachella when they are obviously not ready enough to perform this is what's causing all the hate on their stage presence because SM keeps sending them to events again and again even though they do the bare minimum they barely give them backup dancers not make them sing live like????? its so annoying because instead of training them to improve they set them up for hate trains like seriously also i guess another reason why they are being hated on is because even though they lip sync they dont give a good performance the thing is one of the main reasons to lip sync is because well to give a better performance like dance your ass out make your performance unforgettable this is what aespa is missing and what more is that the camera is mainly the ones saving their performances and honestly their visuals im not gonna deny it aespa has pretty privilege though they have talent there stans are mostly there because they are well pretty i wish they could be more recognized for their talent however how the heck can that happen when freaking SM is making them lip sync all the time heck even MY's like me are tired just look at the Coachella perf. they could obviously sing live they have talent if SM shows this side more they would have a much more solid fandom as much as i hate to admit it a lot of stans would drop them if a scandal even if its false happens this is because most of their stans are just there cuz they are pretty making them easily replaceable with other attractive idols if only SM makes them show their talent more the girls seem like they want to as well im so tired of this maybe if they couldn't actually sing but no they can so what the hell is stopping you SM i also wish you provide them with lessons on how to improve performances like ningning is the only one with actual stage presence and Karina is also debatable but winter and giselle lack so much when it comes to performances especially winter i can see giselle tries but like winter doesn't look like she tries at all anymore she used to have good decent performances but now she looks like she has been swallowed by the hate i mean look at her always expressionless if she wasn't pretty people would hate her so much more i hope these girls are mentally stable especially ningning and giselle who has been continually targeted we are getting a comeback soon and i hope that this will make their reputation so much better because honestly they dont deserve the hate sorry if this was long and also yes other groups lip sync too but not as much as aespa they have sung their songs live in a performance 1-2 times only and their rookie period is about to end already its high time they start singing live and SM better get what the fans and probably the what the girls want as well
orbits, nice that you all are mad because mnet is a shitty thing and not at wjsn girls, but some of you weren't. some orbits kept joking about the wjsn girls dying, about how Exy should die and etc. i understand that what she said made a lot of you mad, but was it reason enough to saying that she should die? also, tweets like those got a thousands of likes. tweets with covid and deaths by covid got a thousand likes, all of this because of a show, and no big Loona fanbase called their attention. so, if you're mad because mnet didn't gave Loona the points for round 1, that's fine, be mad at mnet. don't throw hate at WJSN, they are not the ones to blame, and don't say "no orbits did this" because yes, they did, i was an orbit during Queendom. every fandom has problems and shitty people, what about acknowledging this? i love the girls but i can't stan them the way i used too because BBC is trash and keep forgetting that Vivi and Go Won exists and orbits go to the wrong people. go for mnet, not for wjsn.
I feel the aespa lip syncing hate train stems from their lack of stage presence, if they were captivating performers people would not be too bothered about them lip syncing but because they lack stage presence and they don’t have outstanding or difficult dance routines to compensate for it , people wonder why they don’t sing live And their fans themselves try to look for something to blame for their lack of stage presence and they somehow tie in them not singing live to them not “feeling the music” which somehow causes them not to have good stage presence
i mean i wouldn't say that mnet wouldn't risk rigging again bc gp999 was rigged just in a way that would keep them out of trouble with the law although yes i agree queendom wasn't really rigged bc if it was kep1er would've won since they're already funded by mnet edit: changing public opinions through evil editting is a form of rigging hearing you say gp999 wasn't rigged baffles me bc of how badly the chinese trainees were evil editted to the point that kep1er only has 1 chinese member i haven't watched the show since it ended but if you take a look the members were either angel editted/given a lot of screen time or...is hiyyih (sorry but even she wasn't evil editted she was left out a lot and only survived bc of growing popularity bc of the massive hate train making ppl check her out) like all of the trainees who got evil edit were eliminated cai bing for example had a great chance until mnet rigged her out with evil edit (and no i don't stan her but i can't ignore that if mnet didn't pull these dirty tricks she'd very likely be in kep1er right now)
Orbit is not bothered by the fact that loona has lost, they are bothered by how unfair mnet was with them by not letting them perform in the first round due to covid and promising them that they were going to give them fair points but they didn't. If they had participated in that round they would have won and you all know it
Performance quality wise, WJSN has always been the one carrying the entire show. They got show stopping performances from the freaking intro! Like who does it like them? Even the finale performance which was by far their most disappointing one to me (mainly because they had to lipsync, at least they sang it live in Wonderland concert), lots of folks told me that from the production stand point, WJSN was the only performance that felt like a true finale. Super consistent, yet always creative conceptually each round, WJSN truly deserve this win. Hyolyn was super impressive in the first 2 rounds but then she quickly lost her appeal as a one-trick pony. Now don’t get me wrong, I’ve always been vocal about Hyolyn being one of the ONLY true well-rounded idols in Kpop history. But you cannot deny that she can be quite stagnant with her baddie persona.
You ate that. That Queendom part. Like for real if Mnet wanted to rig a group It would have been Kep1er not to mention how they evil edit the crap out of exy making orbits hate her when she was just doing her job as a leader.
Not every Orbit is like that, i'm really disappointed by some of us, but not everyone in the fandom is like that. But Orbits are shitposters, we joke around about every single misery things that happened to us, this is our way to move on. I'm not deffending the toxic orbits, but toxic people are in every fandom. Everytime some shit like this happens, everybody begin to hate on orbits, we fight in defense and then we start to be seeing as villains. I'm really happy for WJSN, hope they'll start to be treated fairly by Starship. I'm a multistan, but LOONA has been my favorite group since 2019. I love Itzy, Aespa, Ive, RV, Blackpink. But i really feel discourage to enter the fandom of this groups because i feel like everyone hates LOONA there and i never felt really welcome. I don't like a lot of orbits too, but it piss me off that y'all act like we are the only shit fandoms out there.
I agree, every group has a toxic side, including orbits but the second we try to defend loona. We instantly get seen as the bad guys. Everybody acts as if we are the only fandom that is toxic when in reality every fandom has a toxic side to it. Just ignore the toxic stans, most of these fans judge us after they see twitter, like come on twitter is the most toxic app, you will encounter toxic fans from all fandoms on that app. Don't put every fan under the toxic catergory because of a few toxic stans from twitter.
The company Privelage ehh? I believe in it but I dont really bring it up since NO MATTER EVEN IF U DEBUT UNDER THE BIG 3 unlike hybe the Privelage IS really present there yg they know big BANG,psy,2ne1,ikon,winner but they wont really go hype? in sm too they know alot of grouos but they dont hype mew girgroups saying theyre under the same company if theyre debut and music IS a bop then theyd get popular ofc okay like IM not trying to hate on hybe but like yeah for example was enhypen tbh theyre debut was kinda Ehh but it still did alot I dont wanna say txt since even if I did know theyre under bighit crown was still a bop and it had many iconic moments THATS what deserves the popularity given taken was pretty meh nothing special I dont listen to Enhypen since theyre music IS kinda Boring except for polaroid love and for BTS I could say id skip 60% of theyre songs tho alot would like given taken but that quantity of fans cant do much alone so yeuh I Honestly think TXT concept.is eyecatching say you love me was my fave but yeuh
You know what is worst than lip-syncing? It is frequently unprofessional lip-syncing
I can accept aespa (or any other groups) lip syncing for the rest of their career due to whatever reasons, but they can at least do it professionally from time to time. Little things the openess of the mouthshape; timing; facial expression; remembering to lip syncing to your parts, serious will to do the lip syncing, etc. They matter, cause if you cant get them right, the performances become illogical. It is annoying to watch something illogical. Let alone underwhelming dancing.
About the "aespa being the punching bag", i can somewhat agree with you base on ppl reactions. For me, if i ever catch unprofessional lip syncing stages from any idol groups (famous or not), especially if the groups repeat the mistakes frequently, i will just complain the same way i complain aespa's lip syncing.
Honestly, I think Aespa members are tired of not singling love. At Coachella, Ningning literally looked so happy to be able to sing. Not singing live at all can greatly impact a group’s presence
@@ryanostone22 your comment actually makes me wonder that if frequent lip syncing is a prominent part of their contract or not. I mean, if frequent lip syncing isnt a fix part of the contract + aespa isnt aware of & signed up for it + is just a SM's dirty media play for the first few years, i hope the girls are strong enough to cope with the time being and rise in the future where they get to show off their talents and effort. But if consistent lip syncing is a vital part of their contract due to the group's abilities, company preferences or initial concept (like Perfume who do lip syncing 90% of their career due to their techno robot/manequin concept) then aespa should really change their attitude toward lip syncing and practice for it cause they have signed up and agreed with that.
@@ryanostone22 wtf? tired is not the excuse. they need to be more professional
the conversation around aespa and lip syncing is not even solely about the lip syncing anymore - it’s also about the fact that they don’t typically put on engaging performances on top of that. this became a bigger issue recently with their performances at the korean university festival. and yes, other idols have lip synced and will continue to lip sync for certain performances, but it is not the norm to say that a group has only sang live once in their nearly two year career. 🥴 if fans enjoy it, whatever, but the group is not above criticism and others are allowed to voice their thoughts and opinions on public performances.
^^^^
I think the reason their performances are no longer engaging is because they don’t want to lipsync. They look bored because they are. They aren’t treated like singers and it sucks to see talented idols not being able to prove themselves because their company doesn’t let them sing live
Agree and the fact that all of them are actually pretty solid vocalists make this even more dumb tbh , ningning is probably the 4th best vocalist in 4th gen , winter is one of the strongest if not the strongest lead vocalist in this gen , karina is the strongest famale sub vocalist ever probably :) she is almost on par with rose from bp yes that's how good she is , and yet they don't let them sing live :) , I mean why did they train them then ? Ningning spend her whole life training vocaly just to lipsync ? I think that's one of tge reasons why they look like they don't want to performe at all .. anyways I don't think sm care that much about this topic esp that it did not effect their popularty that much , their album "girls " just sold 1 million copy in one week making them the only 4th gg with 1 milllion pre orders for one album , and the 2nd gg in kpop overall to reach this number :) .. so yeah despite their lip sync , lack of strong stage presence , the music slaps and they are doing great , so I don't see this changing .
Also sm is making all their idols lip sync those days , even taeyeon lip synced all her invu performances despite her being a true vocalist :)
Its weird tbh .
I'm a fan of aespa but tbh , I don't like their performances that much :)
Sorry for my english
Personally i don't care that they don't sing live. I enjoy the music just as much. I cannot be the only one. Especially since their concept is more like a cyber one. Like it's not the same music as, say, izone. I don't feel the need to hear the live version. I am pretty sure SM thought it through! They planned their concept to be like this, they thought we would be okay without the live singing and personally i am.
The problem with aespa lipsync is fans should call out sm entertainment not aespa members and send hate to them
I agree so much, especially with Iz*one stuff like Wiz*one should let girls re-debut and stop hating on other IVE and Le Sserafim members. Also I think comments like 'It's not The same' or 'She is bad soloist, was better in Iz*one are Produce' and rude and bad
I think the thing with Loona not winning Queendom, a lot of orbits were mad not because Mnet rigged it for WJSN, but because Mnet literally denied Loona an entire round of points. When they all got covid Mnet could have postponed the show or found some other way to give Loona a fair chance in the first round, but they straight up just put them in 6th place with 0 points apart from video stream views and acted as if it was Loona's fault for not doing better. It set them back for the entire show, they came 5th overall in prelim rounds when they literally came in either 2nd or 3rd place every following round (every other 6th place ranking at least got a decent few points, nothing near 0). That, as far as I know, is what orbits were angry about. Had they received the points they would have gotten for the first round, there was a chance they could have won the whole show. I don't think Mnet rigged it for WJSN to win, but for the most part I didn't see that that was what orbits were mad about.
mnet didn't really rig it for wjsn
Totally agree
@@miya-ms5bx the reason wjsn placed over viviz is bc of the streaming rules. People didn't stream correctly from the playlist so viviz got more streams but they weren't counted
I think it would've been impossible to postpone the first round because it's very likely the group got tested in order to perform and if I recall correctly, they were announced with COVID only two or three days before the recording took place. Which means they probably had already sold tickets, secured the venue and staged everything already for the performances. Yes, it's unfair that they didn't get points but at least they still managed to get second place and the popularity rise from the show!
What I've seen some Orbits do tho, is to blame WJSN and call them untalented/undeserving when imo it's not the case at all
@@itstwicebitch2168 This has been easily debunked by netizens. WJSN streams would have to be nearly perfect for that to have worked and that's simply not true
Idols like being on camera even if we don’t think it. They may not like a lot of the things that come with it, but they still wanted to be celebrities. Txt Soobin is about as quiet and modest as it gets, but he talked about how he absolutely LOVES being on camera and having the lights and attention on himself, even if he’s shy when they’re not there. Is he a narcissist? Hell no, he just knows what he likes, went for it, and is honestly admitting that he feels great being on camera.
The thing about why Aespa stands out for their constant lipsyncing is because they have so much success and are considered one of the top 4th gen groups, so it is incredibly disappointing that they rarely sing. Personally, I think live singing is a really important part of being a Kpop group.
you probably already know now but spicy era has given us so much live singing and they even went on live band! :D
Solid opinions I agreed with most if not all of these , I can see why orbits would be disappointed since if not for what happened in round 1 they likely would have won queendom but seeing the amount of people not only complain about losing but also immediately try to put blame on wjsn or starship definitely made me feel embarrassed for orbits
the way this never happened actually and orbits were just mad at mnet because viviz did magically lose points too in the final ranking so. yeah. its embarassing for yall little non orbits to just assume shit
I think the issue with aespa is that even that we know they can sing they just barely sing. There is a difference between lip syncing from time to time and genuinely not singing live at all, even the members don’t put in the effort in lip syncing because they (to me) look sick of it.
Ive is a group that also mostly uses pre recorded tracks but they most of the time have 2-4 live stages every era. Whereas with aespa there has not been a live era excluding coachella.
Hate is never good tho but i think it’s also because the members don’t really put in the effort in the lip syncing
No, you are so right about company privilege! I still remember everybody had a countdown for Blackpink to debut and streamed Boombayah like crazy. Like, the girls were already so famous that every one cried for a rookie group to comeback for a year after they had debuted. The later fans of the groups always make stupid shit about the group and make their own narrative, like blinks saying they are treated bad (they were never!), armys saying BTS was never taken seriously- like armys weren't the target of the biggest boy band fans at that time and all their comeback breaking records like crazy. Same thing about orbits too. LOONA is getting famous in S.Korea's gp only recently. So it would not surprising for WSJN to be 1st-... they are getting a bit cocky atp..
I wouldn't say bts weren't taken seriously it was more like when they debuted they had a decent fanbase but when they started becoming big in like 2015-16 the stans of a lot of groups tried sabotaging them, and yes every group receives a certain amount of hate but the hate they received and still do is just crazy tbh
Blackpink did get a lot of shit though, you had literal blacjacks under their posts saying they didn't care and that they wanted 2ne1. Now did all the yg fandoms hate them at the time, absolutely not but blackjacks were mad bitter and still are to this very day.
@@nelenalove247 y'all fanwars are normal atp.. in every fandom there are people who hate other idols.. so stop with the "this fandom hated this group because of this and that reason“ narrative..
@@blank3.0 What does this have to do with what I said? Just saying a whole lot of nothing
I mean, if you didn’t watch queendom, then you wouldn’t understand why orbits are mad lol. Being the most famous in Korea didn’t mean anything, cuz Loona won first from live audience votes 2 times, and wjsn only once. And Loona literally, like literally would’ve won queendom, if mnet had given them points for round 1. Even if they had gotten 6th place, it would’ve still been enough to win. Loona got covid, and mnet let them perform, but decided not to give them any points. They said they would, but never did. Thats why orbits are mad at mnet. And as for wjsn….. I can understand why orbits are mad. Ok, so after each performance, the groups are supposed to say which team did worse and better than them, and Wjsn continuously downvoted Loona almost every time. They said it was “a strategy”. It also affects points too. And their’s a round where they perform for fans. It’s called FANdora. So, Loona performed Butterfly, a very meaningful song to orbits and Loona. When it was time to choose who did worse, wjsn chose them as the worse team because their performance was “nothing special”😐. And then just for Loona to lose unfairly to wjsn, yeah, I can definitely understand.
On the company privilege topic, when it comes to the Big 3, they’re always talked about no matter what because their seniors always do well, but not every group does well due to a senior. April didn’t do well compared to Kara, I love April DONT get me wrong but no one can deny that having a 7 year long career with not one win compared to Kara who were active for 9 years and had a hugely successful career in Korea and Japan showed that having a successful senior can show no success. T-ara is another example, despite the bullying accusations, T-ara did really well before the scandal, but groups following them go unnoticed like DIA. DIA still has barely gotten any recognition, they got their first win in 2018 but haven’t gotten one win since then. Some groups take longer to get successful despite having famous seniors, such as groups like Monsta X and WJSN, who both got their first wins 2 years after their debut despite having Sistar as their senior artist. It truly just depends on the company, Big 3 company artists will always blow up pretty fast like Twice, Blackpink, Red Velvet, etc. , groups from companies with highly successful senior artists outside of the Big 3 will get some attention but usually get no attention at all and go unrecognized for their whole career.
As you mentioned Monsta X, I also think Cravity got a lot of hype because of their seniors, but they didn't because their music wasn't great 😅
Now Adrenaline got seen by the gp so I hope that comeback will pave a bright future for them ☺️
April ruined themselves and dsp media is garbage at management and dsp is not a big company so is starship company, yes they had one or two successful artists but that’s it, they are not per se big “companies” on the other hand big hit, YG, sm, jyp are actually truely big companies with huge marketing and scouting teams whose one job is to get the idols to the public and make them sellable. Period. These idols are made over, head to toe. They take etiquette classes and speaking classes and are taught what sells and how they can be appealing. So they sell and are always sellable
to be fair viviz has the biggest domestic fandom thanks to all the k-buddys but yeah wjsn comes in second place there and even before the show started they had some of the strongest chances to win, plus they went all out for queendom and proved themselves, my first pick was viviz but i'm so proud and happy for them like they seriously deserve this win
People are so mad that WJSN won like.. get a hobby, WJSN delivered the best performances alongside Hyolyn. And let's be honest, WJSN needed this win. Starship is letting them in shambles and treating them like theyre non-existent compared to some of their other artists. The performances or aura and pantomime got me to stan actually. I'm so excited for their comeback in july. It will be my first one as a fan.
I think other fandoms try to being wjsn down and say x was more popular y had more streams etc. But wjsn's fandom, despite being smaller, is very organized as I noticed. I'm really happy they won and I hope starships focuses on them now as well. They're super talented and their discography is oen of the best discographies i've heard at a gen3 group.
people arent mad wjsn won, people are mad at mnet for denying loona points and for magically removing points from viviz in final rankings.
@@varbzrepresentative57 pretty sure i've seen plenty of salty people shit on wjsn sooo
@@varbzrepresentative57 people literally sent death threats to WJSN 🤡
@@varbzrepresentative57 there are multiple cases of orbits discrediting wuju's win and spewing hate towards the girls especially towards exy , please get real
It’s not even most orbits hating on wjsn. But I can see why they would. Wjsn was downvoting Loona the entire show, “as a strategy”, and then just for them to win, cuz Loona got covid? Wjsn doesn’t deserve the hate, but I can understand why some orbits are mad. Apart from that, most orbits are mad at mnet for not giving Loona points in round 1 for getting covid.
People don't realize that talking 24/7 about aespa, even in the worst way possible, still gives them exposure. aespa's fandom has grown tremendously and is still growing, and one reason for that is that people just can't stop talking about them 😁
In kpop stans world, getting constant hate trains means being relevant enough to have people massively hate you, aespa are on the way to be one of the most popular groups and people are not happy about it
As an orbit, I'm annoyed with orbits. Even on platforms where they're typically more chill, people were still having blood out for WJSN like... I don't see this as a lose? WJSN got something great out of it, Loona was put into the public eye where they hadn't been before. It's frustrating to see so many people go to ridiculous lengths to call out MNET for something they didn't even do.
aespa doesn’t deserve hate but we should defo call out the lip syncing respectfully. all other 4th gen groups have sung live more than once in their careers! we’re asking SM for the bare minimum and yet they can’t provide that.
even with minimal choreo they still lip sync! all SM artists do now, but aespa gets the brunt of it bc they’re considered the “best vocalists of the 4th gen”. If someone can’t sing live i’d rather they lip sync and focus on performance, but we know aespa CAN sing live, but they just don’t, which pisses me off even more. Also a lot of people say they lack stage presence so it’s like, if you’re not gonna sing what’s the point of this live performance 🙄 it seems SM is really lazy, and knows they can put no effort into live performances these days and people will still eat it up
What many fans don't understand about big company privilege is that the groups can get more attention at the start of their career because of the company, but retain that attention because of their talent. Of course, marketing plays a big role as well, but you can't make up for talent with only marketing. So yes, they had some help at the start and proved to be deserving of all the attention
yes absolutely, but some people just get so triggered as soon as someone tries to explain it to them, thinking you're actually belittling their faves
I definitely agree with company privilege, but there's a limit to it, especially when it comes to Red Velvet. They're very much under promoted, and underestimated by SM. Maybe for debut and rookie years, yes company privilege is a thing, but after that, it's up to the artist and the fanbase to establish themselves as leaders in kpop. Like you have groups outside of the big 3 or 4 of you count Hybe, that are doing great if not better than big 4 groups.
Marketing is extremely important, and that's something SM lacks for Red Velvet.
The reason people make company privilege a big deal is because these fools ONLY apply it to TXT while ignoring the Big 3 when JYP had NMIxx sell a whole 60K albums without their line up or songs being revealed months before debut.
Kpop Stan's have been talking about big3 privilege since like during 2gen calling each big3 Group overrated and all ( I don't know where you get that the big3 were ignored ) ..now bighit became huge of course their newer Group will face it too
@@BhaktManomandirVihariniUma Agree with both you but it's true some 4th bg fandom from big3 groups are treating their favs like underdogs like for exemple some Stays. Dude, Skz are a big 3 group
txt is a privileged group and both moas and txt have been accepting that fact since debut. But people really like to act like they are the only group who gets all the attention because they are bts juniors this when all the groups under big3 are privileged too. there double standards starts showing when the call txt l**ches, lil brothers and what not
the one with wjsn winning and loona losing, orbits were mad that mnet didn’t give loona the points they promised to give after round 1 since loona weren’t present. But orbits are acting like WJSN/ujungs planned it all out. We all know it’s unfair, and as you said mnet wouldn’t favor a group under starship ent. WJSN won queendom and they worked as hard as loona and they definitely deserve the win.
Hey! I don't remember when Mnet said they would give Loona points for the first round, do you have a link to a post or a video? /nm /gen
@@isismarielys4821 Orbits on Twitter stated that mnet promised that, I didn’t see it myself either I’m sorry
@@byeolie6505 I've seen it on Twitter too which is why I actually don't know if it's true or not 😭 I watched every episode of Q2 as it aired and even checked the official Mnet Twitter several times to apply for the Global Viewer (which I got in once!) So I'm trying to remember if that happened for real (them saying they would give points for round one) or if Orbits are just creating that narrative and spreading the word when it's not true
@@isismarielys4821 @byeolie sorry this is really late lol. there was a news article of mnet statement about getting a professional panel to give points for loona's round 1 performance but it did not happen after the airing of the episode where they had taeyeon suggest that loona should have a chance to show their performance but without tha audience votes
You know the only thing cringier than orbits?
Haters who takes orbits too seriously. There's no orbits that treated that rigged thing THAT seriously. They were just fcking with fandoms mind.
Proof is that they already got over it.
Sounds like y'all are just looking for new reasons to hate on orbits... Again
That is so messed up you know. That is even worse you think you are "just joking" but what about the artists who are involved. I literally saw Orbits insulting WSJN on a video and the insults were so bad. Do you think that is just messing around? Do you ever think of a persons feeling when you write that terrible comment or is it an I will kill you, I am just joking teehee
@@laetitiac9890 ok... i'm done with the extreme exemples on each debates with kpop stans. that's all you do and that's how the "stan loona" became the worst thing ever... because of 10% of the fanbase which is a direct callback to my last sentence of the 1st comment .
show me the link of the video you're talking about and the so-offensive-comment too.
they didn’t rig queendom to favor wjsn. they rigged it to hurt loona’s chances of winning. as another comment mentioned, they were given 0 chances of participating in the first round for something that wasn’t even their fault. mnet could’ve scheduled around it or something, but i guess having a contender on your show get covid isn’t a valid excuse to do that. if mnet worked around it or something loona could’ve easily gotten first
^
Yes 5 other groups should shift their schedules because the whole world revolve around loona. -_- no.
@@beemomybeemo6815 there were other options, like giving them last place points instead of not giving them points at all ?!?
@@alissa2939 I didn’t show up for work but I want to get paid for that day. That’s u. That’s what u sound like
@@beemomybeemo6815 the hell are you on about. they’re aren’t working 9-5. they still performed, they were promised participation points and were never given them. MNET said it themselves. i just know it drives you crazy that loona would’ve won queendom if they had even got last place points
I really don't understand how anyone can think that there is no company privilege.
It's obvious that debuting in one of the most famous companies will theoretically allow you to be more successful than if you were debuting in a lesser known company. Why is that? I guess a big company has more budget, and more possibilities to expand your potential to the maximum (even if they will probably lead you to overwork): they have (globally) better training for you (deduction because most of the "most talented" idols in singing, dancing and rapping come from big agencies), better concepts (especially SM and JYP), better quality songs and MVs etc... On top of that, the more famous your agency is, the more visibility you get.
Conclusion: there is definitely a privilege related to being in a big compagny.
However, this does not mean that idols working in big agencies work less, and are less worthy of respect! It's precisely great to be able to get to work there, considering the competitiveness.
@lemonssssssss4 totally
Yea I’m def a company stan (the 1st kind lol don’t worry) for jyp bc I stan twice, itzy, nmixx, and I want to stan niziu and I always look out for what jyp is offering in terms of girl groups!!
I also felt like i lost my respect towards orbits when the Queendom 2 winners were announced. The chat was full of words like "flop" directed at WJSN. I get being disappointed but don't bash any participants omg
About Aespa getting a bunch of hate, I don't think it's the fact that they lip sync, it's the fact that they lip sync on EVERY SINGLE STAGE (well before Cochella) and they don't give stage presence when doing so (again we're talking about before Cochella). I just feel like a almost 2 year old group should at least have one stage (Inkigayo MCountdown etc) that they sing live WHILE DANCING. Also to people who defend them saying that they don't have stage presence is because of SM not letting them sing live and has Cochella as "proof", stop lying to yourself. It's not about singing live or not it's the literal fact that having stage presence is a part of doing their job as idols. If they usually lack stage presence but suddenly get the presence back in a big event, that's means that they are not engaging into their job, which is why people give hate to them.
OMG yes about the problematic one its so true i cant stand it when people deny their talent just because of scandals i mean i probably dont like them but not to the point i blindly deny their talent
Why do i always agree with all of your opinions ??? 😭😭
Your opinions are sometimes something i wanna just say but can't say because of the toxic community
I’ve loved WJSN since their debut and the same with LOONA so me the start of their project so it really irritates me hearing the whole Queendom/FAN Situation like people really need to learn how to chill
Just because your favorite idol is problematic doesn't mean you have to unstan them or else you'll look like you support their actions. What you have to do is acknowledge their wrongdoings and hold them accountable for it. What you have to do is try your best to spread the word over their wrong actions so that it reaches them. Some idols are in bad companies and they can't help it, the companies will dodge all the accusations and not let the idol speak about them, you don't know your idols personally so you don't know if they learnt from their wrong actions or not, if they mean to hurt people with them or not.
You can still love them and talk about them and enjoy their content, but be mindful of what wrong they did.
Garam's situation is a clusterfuck. Every second new proof comes, every second new proof is debunked. Hybe is silencing her and putting her in a hiatus, and we can't know if she was truly a bad person or not. We have no idea on what's going behind the cameras, so always be mindful and careful when you want to talk about her scandal.
And she's super talented and pretty, saying this is NOT supporting her bullying. As relieved I am she's on a hiatus now, I have to admit her voice was super fitting for lesserafim. She is not my bias nor a wrecker, and I'm super happy eunchae got to sing her chorus, but I still have to admit it was basically made for Kim garam.
I mean... I wouldn't really want to stan someone who is a bully...for now though, staying neutral is best choice for Garam case even though I'm 99.9% sure Hybe is just going to pay the "victim" and make negotiations so as not to ruin Le Sserafim's reputation, which is already too late since most people already see Garam as a stain in the group, that's just my opinion though
yeah even though i'm not her fan nor do i stan her or lesserafim but i would agree that the intro was made for her yunjin's voice doesn't sound that good
Red Velvet is, probably, the best girl group exist right now for the concepts alone.
Yet if they weren't under a big company, we will be fighting everyday to prove that to the world.
And they don’t even care that Loona lost they are mad the fact that mnet didn’t give them their points in the first round so check your facts y’all K-pop CZcamsrs be trying to have clout so bad
Hard facts. You didn't hold back at all😂 I love it
The company Stan one 1000% for SM and JYP cause some of their new groups are not slaying but people will defend them to the ends of the earth when they don’t even know them
Don't perceive me wrong pls everyone in queendom deserved the crown however the thing is it's true that wjsn had a big chance of winning since the beginning but they were almost last in streams and votes, but had more unique listeners than viviz and almost has much with a very narrow difference from loona even tho they have less than half of Loona's monthly listeners on Spotify and somehow were second in the last voting even though they did bad in fan's choice voting?? When you do the math it just sounds weird and it doesn't help with the whole thing of Loona not receiving any points on the first round. A lot of orbits were disrespectful and awful and lost all of the reason but I think it's still something to be pondered and you shouldn't discard the possibility even more because it's obvious mnet has made peace with starship since ive's debut and if they hadn't they wouldn't have invited wjsn to queendom. It's over now and there's nothing anyone can do about it people also shouldn't take a survival show to seriously to the point of slandering others online but pls don't discard and say orbits are being delusional when it's certainly weird certain aspects
i agreeee im an orbit and twitter was a mess for a couple days some orbits were being horrible to wjsn when it’s not even their fault, however i don’t think the possibility of it being rigged should be ignored because so many things don’t add up, i’m not denying the fact the wjsn worked hard it’s just odd plus the fact that loona didn’t win any points for r1 when if given those points they would’ve won makes me a little upset. but i mean it’s done now and i’m honestly over it, hopefully both loona and wjsn are doing well
@@miya-ms5bx It literally says nothing. If you had any respect left after EVERYTHING Mnet did, then I think you have to rethink some stuff
@@miya-ms5bx Well, I'm just wondering why you had respect for Mnet in the first place when they've done so many terrible things already 😅
@@miya-ms5bx Well, I hope we're finally reaching the point where everyone has cancelled Mnet already because I can't name a single good thing they did in the past couple of years XD
Oh well, I hope all groups (and Hyolyn) who participated in Queendom will have successful comebacks 💖
I was watching queendom finale live and after wjsn won, there were a lot of ujungs saying shit like, "thank god loona didn't win, otherwise orbits would've gotten cockier" and so on.
A lot of shit is thrown at orbits but people forget that literally every fandom has 'good' and 'bad' fans and every fandom wants their groups to do well.
In my opinion, as someone who watched the finale live, I found wjsn's performance (for the final round) very underwhelming. Their pantomime stage was great, but aura just didn't match, it was basic and forgettable after the little intro bit with seola.
I liked loona and hyolyn's stage. Hyolyn's was the best performance-wise, she put on a real show it was great! And I really liked loona's vibe/concept. Throughout Queendom they dabbled in every genre-- historical for round 1, jazzy/musical for round 2, ballad + sensual for round 3 pt 1, heartwarming/fairy-like for round 3 pt 2 and finally rogue, villainous for the finale. I liked that ❤️☺️
The company stan one....yes, thank youuuu
loona only lost bc they missed a round due to covid.... that's why orbits are upset lmao
What app do you use for edit
Company privilege is real once the group is formed, but it’s much harder to get in the group in these label. Trainees from smaller companies have an easier time reaching debut, its after debut that they have to work the hardest, with an SM trainee they have a very difficult road to make it into a group, so it’s fair that they have it easier after debut as far as finding a solid fan base.
I will subscribe to you so the toxics who left didn't made change😊
tbh enyphen and txt are popular due to bighit tho their music isnt even bad , its just like many boy groups
Txt music it’s not just like many boygroups💀
Queendom was such a mess and I'm not even surprised it just sucks because you can tell all the groups respect one another but ofc the fuckin fans have to ruin the enjoyment of it. Kpop fans cannot handle competition in the slightest every single survival show competition based show. Don't get me wrong Mnet are snakes and Loona should have gotten those first round points but how the fans have acted through out all of queendom is gross and orbits can deny it all they want but I have seen posts absolutely being disgusting towards WJSN all because they gave their own personal opinion on a COMPETITION SHOW. If you thought Loona had the best performance cool great fantastic but these idols were there to compete and if you can't handle other people not praising the ground your favs walk on you need serious help because kpop should never get to the point you're harassing and being down right disgusting towards idols you don't even know bro go touch some grass that goes for how every fandom was acting during queendom.
that’s not why some people were upset we were upset because wjsn were basically targeting loona and voting them down every chance they got. it was a bit off putting to me, someone who ults loona and was looking to stan wjsn after queendom…. especially since exy’s reasonings were kinda bs in my opinion.
@@Natalie-gm5po Once again this was a competition show every single group was there to compete and that's what they did. I'm sorry WJSN wasn't worshipping the ground Loona walks on but that is no reason for how some orbits have been acting towards WJSN. I love Loona and people don't have to agree with what WJSN said but at the end of day they had to choose which group performance they didn't enjoy I'm sorry if that hurt orbits egos but yall need to get over it or just stop watching competition shows because it's clear majority of fans can't handle it. Be upset but that doesn't excuse bullying WJSN that's disgusting.
@@PinBall0 you’re exaggerating to make your point look stronger bc I never said they have to “worship the ground loona walks on”. all I said was that it’s off putting how wjsn chose loona at every chance they got only because it put THEM at an advantage. I would have preferred if they picked honestly because come on now… loona were the only group wjsn ever picked as below them throughout the show.
@@Natalie-gm5po oh yeah it's always 'exaggeration' when a fandoms bs gets called out 🙄. I never said you said they need to worship loona I'm saying most orbits are getting offended because WJSN gave their own personal opinion and before your say 'tHaTs nOt tRuE' I'm an orbit myself so I have seen the bs that has been going on. If you are on a competition show you will take whatever advantage you can get that's the whole point you do you have to agree with what is said? No but when you start harassing the idols competing for that opinion yeah no embarrassing. Idols are actual human beings with actual thoughts and opinions who would of guessed right? Kpop fans want idols to be more open and honest but the moment they are yall can't handle it. I don't even stan WJSN but they don't deserve to be harassed by orbits with hurt feelings 🤷🏽♀️ same goes for all fandoms if you couldn't handle queendom it's nobodies else's fault you couldn't handle it. Have a great day.
@@PinBall0 dude im not like tripping over myself and dying because wjsn downvoted loona at every opportunity I don’t even care that much anymore. I don’t think wjsn deserve hate but I think they shouldn’t have held loona to unreachable standards bc that was their reasoning a lot of the time for down voting them.
I think the lip synching thing became big bc their fans set them up. Literally had someone argue with me that they always sing live on insta. Plus their performances tend to be lack luster overall. Some members look like they don’t want to be their sometimes. But the 180 that happened at Coachella though!! I think live singing would help them as rookies to give better performances and have better stage presence.
whatever you said is 100 on 100 i agree with every point
We should all care about how the girls of IZ*ONE are succeeding now, don't live in the past ❤️
But if we look at the numbers WJSN was losing when it comes to streams and views. The only category they won on was subjective voting
i also heard that some orbits were saying horrible things about wonho after he voted and told his fans to vote for wjsn… like they called him a homophobic slur…
They did. They did this, joked about killing the WJSN girls, joked about how Exy was the one who gave Loona covid (people making jokes about Covid like that it's never funny to me shm), they are such a lovely fandom to be around... Except they aren't.
@@framboesa185 not all of us are like that, don't paint all of us orbits as toxic. Every fandom has a toxic side to it. We all don't even accept those orbits into the fandom, they are antis trying to put a bad rep on loona and us orbits.
@@jasminn4480 yes, i shouldve said that, i'm sorry. I realized only now that i didn't said that it was bad people/bad orbit doing this
And yes, every fandom has a toxic part. It's just sad that most of them don't recognize this.
I was an orbit. I only started to watch Queendom for Loona and I don't really think WJSN was the best (neither Loona, tbh), I just couldnt stay after Queendom. However, yes, i should've made it clear that i was not talking about all orbits, I'm really sorry.
@@framboesa185 np!!! I just don't get why people hate, like do you really need do that.
i feel like izone fans wont shut up about how much they miss izone. like, they arent dead, they are still out there doing smth they like idk why for every group that debuts with an ex izone member has comments praising izone or mentioning it like pls shut up idc. (this is just my opinion idk if anyone else feels this way)
Company privilege is real, but then again, the fact that they debuted in that company means they faced bigger hardships compared to other companies, so they deserve the privilege
They're many idols who r more talented than big3 idols, but still aren't that popular cuz of company
@@user-xy7ci3ep2v being more talented doesn't mean they faced life as hard in big 3. For example, maybe they had monthly evaluations yes, but there were like 10 trainees, so even debuting if you had talent was guaranteed. But big 3 has more trainees, and remember, they don't even need to debut you, cause they are already making money
So as I said, they deserve the company privilege. And being an idol isn't all about talent. And also, even some of those talented idols from other companies might have trained at the big 3 so really
when bighit became hybe i became so sad ! Then came the news of collaborating with Schooter Braun ! Yukk
i think alot of ppl constantly spoke abt aespa lip syncing because it was very noticealble nd it was also noticable tht they werent even trying to pretened theyre not lip syncing along side w their kinda boring stage presence (not all the times ) it was just added to the list of complaints ppl had for aespa but its fine now singe theyre stage presence is getting better and they do sing live these days so yea !!
I completely forgot that Starship and Mnet are...*beefing*😂😅
orbits aren't saying mnet favours WJSN, we're saying they clearly put Loona at a disadvantage by giving them no points on the first round... and yes, Loona would've won if it wasn't for that
For the izone opn :
You know there's something called improvement right...? I know kpop stans tend to forget about it but it happens that when an idol debut, they actually have nothing hidden... THEY JUST LACKED, improved and ended up showing more after d*
Ikr
astro in the intro 😳😍
The issue with Aespa is that before coachella they hace NEVER sing live. At least other groups they sing live at least twice in a comeback.
And the fact that they were from SM
The fact they have no stage presence.
It just make it more obvious
I agree on some, but i really hate survival shows even if i know why they are so popular and well watched. I agree that there are groups that do benefit from their big 3 privilege, but on the other hand some of these groups from big companies are basically left on their own and made to do almost everything themselves and then the company gets the benefits if they become popular or the group gets blamed if they dont succeed. Ex. From my group skz i do believe they got a lot of attention as a jyp group and while people who hear that the group was formed by the leader and they write their own songs might think "oh what privilege and what freedom and opportunities" but on the other hand it's immense pressure on the group.
The Orbitz bit had me click so fast ha. Regardless of who won, queendom got me to look more into both WJSN and Loona, whereas before they were kind of just on my peripheral. But all of the salty loona comments throughout the whole thing has made it very difficult to fully get into Loona still. I have had many groups dear to me in the past lose competitions and I may have even felt they were cheated in some way, but that is just notttt the way to handle that. All these Orbitz are doing is just pushing away so many more potential new fans, you are actually doing Loona a major disservice.
3:20 omg YES. Finally someone says this!! People need to stop denying that company privilege exists, and that big 3 groups (mostly 4th gen groups) have a larger fanbase than non-big 3 groups because of the fact they come from a big company.
Like, of course they also have great music which can bring a pretty lot of fans, but it’s also, undeniably, due to the fact they’re from very successful companies.
And if you didn’t know it it has been confirm
That Loona was supposed to be in first viviz was supposed to be in second and wjsn was supposed to be in third
Is an article released on the confirmation?
I only know about viviz spotify scores being rigged.
@@persik3775 It was a new one confirm today
People talk about aespa lipsyncing because they bring nothing else to the table. They don’t have amazing stage presence AND they can’t sing live? It’s a bad look
WJSN doesn't have a stronger domestic fandom than VIVIZ. People always agree that GFRIEND is one of the biggest gg's but when the situation isn't in their favour they pull the "GFRIEND isn't that popular" Card
not a single lie was told
"i lost all my respect for orbits" no one gaf😭😭😭 going all out for fucking mnet and starship oh wow😭
Being an orbit, i respectfully understand and agree with your words.
the aespa lip syncing situation is only big because mys argue with almost every fandom on twitter so it’s get brought up… i saw mys fight with midzys because somi stan’s shaded itzy and they wanted to jump in on it, also mys have been trying to drag red velvet since aespa debuted so that one of the reasons why it get brought up a lot…
Most Orbits are mad at Mnet cause they didn't give LOONA score. Like what was the point in performing PTT in Queendom2 ?? I'm genuinely curious
I watched the last episode of queendom2 live and yeah there were some toxic Orbits but sometimes people exaggerate like there even people who couldn't stop with Toxic Orbits narrative
Agree
You know what? *AMEN* i just heard facts
Being a Multi Stan is the best thing. Although I'm sad LOONA didn't win cause of their bad luck and at the same time I'm happy WJSN won
For the company opinion, I can totally agree. Like before NMIXX's debut, people were able to pre-order their album without knowing ANYTHING about the group, not how many members, not any songs, nothing. And just because it's JYP's new girl group, thousands of people pre-ordered the album. I'm not saying that NMIXX is not talented or don't deserve it but I think this example proves that the company an artist debuts under matters a lot for their future success
100% agree
personally i dont care that aespa lip syncs. alot of groups have lip synced before, and while i do prefer live vocals over lip syncing, it really doesnt matter. its really not a crime to lip sync so ppl should stop treating it like it is
majority of orbits weren’t claiming that mnet rigged queendom in favor of wjsn I think that was like 2 or 3 people. The rest of us were upset about the points they’ve missed out on during round 1 and were promised to earn back.
Literally in every aespa video you will find a hate/negative comment
Here’s my thing with “Big 3 privilege” specifically for Red Velvet and other SM girl groups. They have the privilege that allows them a wide audience, but having stanned RV since day 1, SM girl groups get unnecessary hate from the public for months, if not the first few years until there is someone else to take that attention. RV had a bigger jumping off point, but they worked hard to get where they are, especially with people out here constantly trying to bring them down and claim they’re not as popular or not as good as Twice or BlackPink 🙄 I think that was a poor example. They would’ve been just as famous from another label, I think, or at least close because of their talent. Look at Mamamoo. Super popular and not from a big 3 company. It’s not necessarily delusional to think that.
the one about the agencies!!!! YES. GO OFF. some company stans would see their faves get mistreated and mismanaged and still call said label a good label when they're not. how stupid can you be to think there's a good agency? some might not be as bad as spme others, but no label is 100% innocent so i would like for kpop stans to quit worshipping agencies like they're gods cause it's embarrassing and ridiculous.
I think orbits are mad cuz mnet didn't wait for loona in the first round and give them 0 point and this is the only reason of not being the winner in queendom, if mnet gave loona at leat 400 point or I don't know how much the 6th place should got here can be bigger chance for loona to win the show
I HATE Orbits who send dts and make wjsn look like the bad one. Remember, not all Orbits are blaming wjsn, most are blaming mnet. (And maybe COVID) I'm an orbit too so I just hate it when a portion of Orbits say hurtful things and make it look like everyone in the orbit fandom is trash.
I liked i-land im waiting for the girls version
if they're a bad person im not being nice not sorry 🤷🏾♀️
7:35 -YG StAteRgY stans and others 😍😍
The thing about aespa lip syncing is that they never sing live in these performances. Other groups or soloists at least sing live in one performance per comeback
the wizone/izone is 100% true like ok we all miss iz*one but they need to stfu already and hyewon is actually a good vocalist and can sing well which even mr as a hyewon stan did not know. also all the girls were so mistreated like the songs were too high and they were unfair with some members so them disbanding is a blessing in disguise and wiz*one need to realize that cause we got so much amazing music from the girls and everyone is getting the recognition they deserve and doing what they love (i mean some of them do deserve bettter and even wiz*ones arent supporting them except when they mention iz*one or the members aka eunbi, and we all now know 90% of wiz*ones hated hyewon cause most didnt even acknowledge her music or activities and keep saying she is doing nothing other than youtube)
BTW STREAM AND LISTEN TO "LIKE A DIAMOND" BY KANG HYEWON AND STELLA JANG COMING OUT TOMORROW 🙏😊
the fact that missing round 1 impacted them so badly makes everything orbits did to catch up useless because they never had a chance at winning from the start. orbits have a right to be mad at that. it wasnt even just orbits claiming it was rigged, a big portion were from viviz fans too but of course you wouldnt mention that because that doesnt align with your narrative.
you clearly haven’t done any research when it comes to the qd rigging allegations. you say that sse and mnet are on bad terms but why would sse send wjsn to an mnet show? looks like someone became friends again, bc lets not forget that sse was heavily involved in the rigging of produce.
also when it comes to the digital scores, you can clearly see that the numbers don’t add up. loona and wjsn had almost the same amount of points, only 300 difference meaning that either all of wjsn streams were ul and HALF of loonas were ul, or that half of wjsn were ul and a quarter for loona. this makes no sense if you think about fandom sizes, and do you mean that not a single ujung streamed the song more than once? that’s ridiculous
^ facts
in my opinions the most infuriating thing about aespa lip syncing is that we know they can sing so whyyyyyyyy are they not singing like i bet they want to but it’s just SME’s problem
4:27 tell them .
The thing is, loona are the true winners, orbits are wrong for saying mnet rigged the show but I think they are just trolling and I do think its kind of unfair that loona did not get any points for round 1 since they could not help getting covid, like it was out of their control. If they even got 5th place in round 1 they would've won and that's why orbits are upset and frustrated.
Well orbits were silent during Queendom Season because every other fandom thinks that Orbits are the most toxic. I guess they got freedom now.
And In Round 2 6th place got some points. So why not Round 1
@@Labby_TV yeah orbits were surprisingly nice during queendom 2. Wjsn and Hyolyn stans were toxic
@@kchill6925 What?!?! Orbits has been dragging wjsn through the mud since the second round.
@@kamillathorsholt201 I mean I would too if a other group aka wjsn literally picked loona as the worse group for no real reason just to get an advantage in the competition
about the 4th opinion ngl i pin all the blame on MY's if they didn't keep on claiming that they were the best vocalists they wouldn't have gotten this much hate they go through other vocalists videos and keep saying ningning or winter or karina or giselle is the best vocalists leading some other scumbags insulting aespa and eventually making them hate aespa because MY's suck also i dont mind them lip syncing its totally fine its to preserve their vocals after all but it doesn't mean they shouldn't at least sing their songs live once i mean im not blaming the girls im blaming SM because its their fault also I'm kinds mad at them for sending aespa to MAMA or to perform at big events like Coachella when they are obviously not ready enough to perform this is what's causing all the hate on their stage presence because SM keeps sending them to events again and again even though they do the bare minimum they barely give them backup dancers not make them sing live like????? its so annoying because instead of training them to improve they set them up for hate trains like seriously also i guess another reason why they are being hated on is because even though they lip sync they dont give a good performance the thing is one of the main reasons to lip sync is because well to give a better performance like dance your ass out make your performance unforgettable this is what aespa is missing and what more is that the camera is mainly the ones saving their performances and honestly their visuals im not gonna deny it aespa has pretty privilege though they have talent there stans are mostly there because they are well pretty i wish they could be more recognized for their talent however how the heck can that happen when freaking SM is making them lip sync all the time heck even MY's like me are tired just look at the Coachella perf. they could obviously sing live they have talent if SM shows this side more they would have a much more solid fandom as much as i hate to admit it a lot of stans would drop them if a scandal even if its false happens this is because most of their stans are just there cuz they are pretty making them easily replaceable with other attractive idols if only SM makes them show their talent more the girls seem like they want to as well im so tired of this maybe if they couldn't actually sing but no they can so what the hell is stopping you SM i also wish you provide them with lessons on how to improve performances like ningning is the only one with actual stage presence and Karina is also debatable but winter and giselle lack so much when it comes to performances especially winter i can see giselle tries but like winter doesn't look like she tries at all anymore she used to have good decent performances but now she looks like she has been swallowed by the hate i mean look at her always expressionless if she wasn't pretty people would hate her so much more i hope these girls are mentally stable especially ningning and giselle who has been continually targeted we are getting a comeback soon and i hope that this will make their reputation so much better because honestly they dont deserve the hate sorry if this was long and also yes other groups lip sync too but not as much as aespa they have sung their songs live in a performance 1-2 times only and their rookie period is about to end already its high time they start singing live and SM better get what the fans and probably the what the girls want as well
orbits, nice that you all are mad because mnet is a shitty thing and not at wjsn girls, but some of you weren't. some orbits kept joking about the wjsn girls dying, about how Exy should die and etc. i understand that what she said made a lot of you mad, but was it reason enough to saying that she should die? also, tweets like those got a thousands of likes. tweets with covid and deaths by covid got a thousand likes, all of this because of a show, and no big Loona fanbase called their attention. so, if you're mad because mnet didn't gave Loona the points for round 1, that's fine, be mad at mnet. don't throw hate at WJSN, they are not the ones to blame, and don't say "no orbits did this" because yes, they did, i was an orbit during Queendom. every fandom has problems and shitty people, what about acknowledging this?
i love the girls but i can't stan them the way i used too because BBC is trash and keep forgetting that Vivi and Go Won exists and orbits go to the wrong people. go for mnet, not for wjsn.
I feel the aespa lip syncing hate train stems from their lack of stage presence, if they were captivating performers people would not be too bothered about them lip syncing but because they lack stage presence and they don’t have outstanding or difficult dance routines to compensate for it , people wonder why they don’t sing live
And their fans themselves try to look for something to blame for their lack of stage presence and they somehow tie in them not singing live to them not “feeling the music” which somehow causes them not to have good stage presence
i mean i wouldn't say that mnet wouldn't risk rigging again bc gp999 was rigged just in a way that would keep them out of trouble with the law although yes i agree queendom wasn't really rigged bc if it was kep1er would've won since they're already funded by mnet
edit: changing public opinions through evil editting is a form of rigging hearing you say gp999 wasn't rigged baffles me bc of how badly the chinese trainees were evil editted to the point that kep1er only has 1 chinese member i haven't watched the show since it ended but if you take a look the members were either angel editted/given a lot of screen time or...is hiyyih (sorry but even she wasn't evil editted she was left out a lot and only survived bc of growing popularity bc of the massive hate train making ppl check her out) like all of the trainees who got evil edit were eliminated cai bing for example had a great chance until mnet rigged her out with evil edit (and no i don't stan her but i can't ignore that if mnet didn't pull these dirty tricks she'd very likely be in kep1er right now)
Orbit is not bothered by the fact that loona has lost, they are bothered by how unfair mnet was with them by not letting them perform in the first round due to covid and promising them that they were going to give them fair points but they didn't. If they had participated in that round they would have won and you all know it
Bi guys r lyk so hot - Tara Gilesbie
Performance quality wise, WJSN has always been the one carrying the entire show. They got show stopping performances from the freaking intro! Like who does it like them? Even the finale performance which was by far their most disappointing one to me (mainly because they had to lipsync, at least they sang it live in Wonderland concert), lots of folks told me that from the production stand point, WJSN was the only performance that felt like a true finale. Super consistent, yet always creative conceptually each round, WJSN truly deserve this win.
Hyolyn was super impressive in the first 2 rounds but then she quickly lost her appeal as a one-trick pony. Now don’t get me wrong, I’ve always been vocal about Hyolyn being one of the ONLY true well-rounded idols in Kpop history. But you cannot deny that she can be quite stagnant with her baddie persona.
You ate that. That Queendom part. Like for real if Mnet wanted to rig a group It would have been Kep1er not to mention how they evil edit the crap out of exy making orbits hate her when she was just doing her job as a leader.
its not evil editing if you actually said those things
Not every Orbit is like that, i'm really disappointed by some of us, but not everyone in the fandom is like that. But Orbits are shitposters, we joke around about every single misery things that happened to us, this is our way to move on. I'm not deffending the toxic orbits, but toxic people are in every fandom. Everytime some shit like this happens, everybody begin to hate on orbits, we fight in defense and then we start to be seeing as villains. I'm really happy for WJSN, hope they'll start to be treated fairly by Starship.
I'm a multistan, but LOONA has been my favorite group since 2019. I love Itzy, Aespa, Ive, RV, Blackpink. But i really feel discourage to enter the fandom of this groups because i feel like everyone hates LOONA there and i never felt really welcome. I don't like a lot of orbits too, but it piss me off that y'all act like we are the only shit fandoms out there.
I agree, every group has a toxic side, including orbits but the second we try to defend loona. We instantly get seen as the bad guys. Everybody acts as if we are the only fandom that is toxic when in reality every fandom has a toxic side to it. Just ignore the toxic stans, most of these fans judge us after they see twitter, like come on twitter is the most toxic app, you will encounter toxic fans from all fandoms on that app. Don't put every fan under the toxic catergory because of a few toxic stans from twitter.
The company Privelage ehh? I believe in it but I dont really bring it up since NO MATTER EVEN IF U DEBUT UNDER THE BIG 3 unlike hybe the Privelage IS really present there yg they know big BANG,psy,2ne1,ikon,winner but they wont really go hype? in sm too they know alot of grouos but they dont hype mew girgroups saying theyre under the same company if theyre debut and music IS a bop then theyd get popular ofc
okay like IM not trying to hate on hybe but like yeah
for example was enhypen tbh theyre debut was kinda Ehh but it still did alot I dont wanna say txt since even if I did know theyre under bighit crown was still a bop and it had many iconic moments THATS what deserves the popularity given taken was pretty meh nothing special I dont listen to Enhypen since theyre music IS kinda Boring except for polaroid love and for BTS I could say id skip 60% of theyre songs tho alot would like given taken but that quantity of fans cant do much alone so yeuh
I Honestly think TXT concept.is eyecatching say you love me was my fave but yeuh