3 Professional Indoor Boom Microphones: Sennheiser, Schoeps, Audio Technica
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- Sennheiser MKH 8050 Microphone - B&H: bhpho.to/2zozur3
Schoeps CMC641 Microphone - B&H: bhpho.to/2gshfsv
Audio Technica AT4053B - Amazon: geni.us/mkPWeZS
Several requests came in to look at more professional level microphones for recording dialogue sound for film and video. So let’s have a look at and a listen to three higher-end microphones that are well suited for recording dialogue while indoors. We’ll have a separate episode on shotgun microphones which are better suited for outdoor use.
Links to Gear Discussed and used to shoot this review:
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Sennheiser MKH 8050 Microphone
B&H: bhpho.to/2zozur3
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Schoeps CMC641 Microphone
B&H: bhpho.to/2gshfsv
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Audio Technica AT4053B
Amazon: geni.us/mkPWeZS
B&H: bhpho.to/2gsorEX
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Rycote Shockmount
Amazon: geni.us/F1cTl7
B&H: bhpho.to/2gtuRDT
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Aputure COB120t LED Light
Amazon: geni.us/xOmzZMA
B&H: bhpho.to/2xm24fj
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Aputure Light Dome Soft Box - I use this for almost every interview/talking head shot
Amazon: geni.us/7VMeue
B&H: bhpho.to/2z9bRSw
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Sound Devices 633 Audio Recorder
DVeStore: bit.ly/2tEHGRa
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Blackmagic Ursa Mini Pro
B&H: bhpho.to/2yxUISZ
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Copyright 2017 by Curtis Judd
Ethics statement: Some of the links above are Amazon.com, B&H Photo, or other affiliate links.
I have used the Audio Technica AT4053B for a number of years and never had any issues with it until we flew recently for an indie feature film shoot in New York City. We filmed in 7 interior locations, and in 3 of those locations, the AT4053B experienced very bad RF interference. I don't know the source, we were not using wireless gear on-set and everyone on-set had their cell phones off or on flight mode. NYC is full of wi-fi signals of all kinds etc. The interference was so bad, it ruined the AT4053B boom audio at two of the locations we filmed at. In the worst locations, it kicked in every 10-20 seconds making capturing clear audio impossible. Thankfully we had on-camera Rode NTG mics and they captured great audio and did not suffer the same RF interference issues the AT4053B did. If it had not been for the backup Rodes, we would have been screwed...
Thanks for sharing, Paul!
Well it took a few years but after doing dozens of interviews and getting a good sense of where our business was headed, we finally decided to take the next step and invest in a high-end Boom mic for indoor dialogue. Thanks to your advice we invested in the MKH 8050 and my world has changed forever. Thank you for all your videos and advice, and I can't think of a purchase I've ever been happier with! It was very helpful to make a well-informed decision and the 8050 is the perfect fit for what we do these days. Cheers
So glad to hear the Sennheiser works well for you! Happy recording!
Man, when they sound is subjective and there's no one perfect mic they're not lying. I like how the Sennheiser sounded on Curtis but preferred the AT4053b for his wife's voice. I'm looking into buying a mic for indoor dialogue for my work and man, there's a lot of hearing one needs to do but most important keep in mind, sound is really subjective. I own the MKH 416 and man that thing shines in outdoors. Clearest audio without much need for processing. For indoors, not such a good idea. Overall, I appreciate your videos Curtis.
Thanks!
Oh my...did you read my mind?! This video is exactly what I have been looking for!
I don't think so but glad it helped!
Thanks 🙏🏽 for another terrific comparison. To my ears 👂🏼 the 8050 sounds warmer and more pleasing out of the three.
Thanks Carlos! I agree, on my voice the 8050 is the most flattering. On most jobs I start with the Schoeps (and it sounds great on the majority of voices) but every once in a while, the 8050 is the best choice.
It has a very natural sound, I think.
Rarely did something so small do so much good ... at such a high price.
Enjoyed the video Curtis. To be honest, when you consider the price of the AT4053B, it likely offers the best price to performance ratio and one I would have no issues picking up in the future. But of course if your doing million dollar productions, then it make sense to use the Sennheiser or Schoeps as they are better.
Joe's Photo & Video Channel I have both capsules, cardioid and hyper. Use them all the time if I an indoors. I think they represent good value.
Agreed for micro and no-budget productions, the AT is amazing. Once one is doing paid work as a location sound mixer, the investment in the Sennheiser and Schoeps makes sense (they are, after all, a LOT less expensive than what most enthusiast filmmakers spend on many of their pro-level zoom lenses)
Curtis Judd agreed.
The schoeps sound so good, maybe because the "lack" of low frequencies improves the clarity, but the schoeps sound is smooth !
👍
Great techniques for comparing mic's and isolating the different categories of performance. I always learn something from your videos.
Thanks!
So this may be one of the only samples of the MKH 8050 on CZcams, and I think it might be the only English one. It was actually pretty helpful, I recently bought an MKH 8050, will be using my Oktavas for back ups/crash mics. Honestly I hate the sound of the MKH50, but I really like the 8050 for the much more natural high end.
I agree - I prefer the 8050 over the 50 as well.
Thanks Curtis for the great video! I’ve been using the AT4053B for about 4 years now and it’s been a great workhorse. Obviously there are some better microphones out there, but for the price I’m very happy. However, I would definitely recommend picking up another mic windshield though as the included one is quite thin!
Thanks Matt, good point on the windshield.
What could be better than AT4053B?
The man - does it again! Great job Curtis!
Thanks!
Finally some info on the 8050! Great video, as always. Kudos
Thanks!
Great comparison!
Two things-
1.These 3 mics are all hypercardiods, not cardiods
2. When using the Rycote shockmounts, the mic cable should always be tucked under the “finger” like cable clamp near the base of the
shockmount. This reduces noise transmission through the mic cable to the mic.
Thanks Bill, The Sennheiser and Schoeps are both identified as Super-cardioid by the respective manufacturers while Audio Technica refers to the AT4053b as Hyper-cardioid. Thanks for the tip on the shock mount cable.
Loved the silhouette shots!
Thanks Terme
This helped make my decision to get the 8050 and it paid off on the first shoot after I got it when there were a couple surprise two-person interviews. I was able to put it in the middle and they both sounded great. Definitely better results than my Rode NT3 would would have managed. I'm curious if you have spent much time with the MKH 8060 and MKH 8070 - I'm looking for a shotgun I can pair with the 8050 in noisier environments - figured they'd match the closest tonally.
Glad to hear the 8050 works well for you 👍 I haven’t worked directly with the 8060 or 8070.
Good comparison! The AT definitely offers a lot of value for that price but tbh the other mics are better just on the more expensive side.
+GansoFlair thanks! I agree, the AT is very good value. I’m not selling it. :)
Really nice review and comparison. The measurement tests were interesting and rarely seen in other videos. I have two 8050 mics for interior dialog (sometimes use two booms) and also a 8040 for getting dialog between two talents close to each other talking to camera or to each other. Tests I heard by a pro mixer showed the MKH8050 and MKH50 sound identical up to about 18 inches from talent, beyond that distance the 50 sounded better. The only problem with using the 8050 is that it is so short that it can be difficult to mount or use it with a larger windscreen, normally I use the Sennheiser windscreen that came with the mic which is a good design but will not prevent boom swing wind sound. I use the Rycote INV 3 which works well enough. I also have a Cinela mount which is stupid expensive but sounds about the same as the INV 3. But I also use a thin Canare mic cable rather than the usual thick cables made to drag around on a stage floor. This needed to provide proper mechanical isolation when using the 8050 in a Rycote mount.
+RallenMan thanks Allen, good info. I need to invest in the canare cable. Interesting re: the 50 and 8050.
I love the canare L-4e6s star quad cable, used to work on film floors alot with electrical wires everywhere, after I made the switch, electrical interference is a thing of the past. And have noticed a huge reduction in rf interference.
Always very good and reliable reviews. I already bought another mic you suggested and I´m really happy with it. Thanks.
Thanks Ata.
Hi Curtis, just found this, thanks for the comparison review! IMHO Sennheiser 8050 sounds the most natural for your voice in this setup. It actually also wins on the female voice in this example. The worst is AT 4053B on your voice and Schoeps CMC641 on the female voice. Thanks again!
👍
Thanks for the review of these mics. The off-axis test is something I wish more people would do, as it is an important feature that is easily overlooked. For single person interviews, I honestly believe any decent mic ($600+ range) will produce professional results running through a clean preamp, and placed properly in a good sounding room. For single person recordings, the advantage of "better" mics tends to be more about off-axis rejection, self-noise, durability, interchangeable capsules and on-set "snob appeal" (and, yes, I lust for mics I can't afford...LOL). For multi-track recording, the accumulative effect of microphones becomes apparent, which is why studios have a mic "closet" full of exotic and expensive mics.
FWIW, I currently use an Audix SCX1-HC (hyper cardioid) and Rode NTG3 (super cardioid) mics. Both are affordable options for anyone doing paid gigs. I typically prefer the Audix for indoor shoots, but will swap it out for the Rode depending on the tone of the talent's voice and room acoustics.
Q: Would you consider doing a video about how to use Adobe Audition's analysis tools? Audition is a great app, but I need to take better advantage of it't tool set...and you seem to have great knowledge of these tools.
Hi Dave, thanks for the thoughts, especially re: use of multiple microphones and the additive effect.
Yes, I'll add the analysis tools to the list. Thanks!
You make some great demos on audio gear my friend. I have enjoyed watching quite a few of them. Just wanted to give you a heads up on your off axis rejection testing. When you move the noise generator around the mics, you should try to keep a equal distance to the diaphragm of the mic from the different angles. It looks like you put the noise generator right up against the front of the mics but when you move to the back, you get a lot more distance.This creates the illusion of really awesome directional abilities when the effect in reality is more subtle.
Thanks for sharing these videos - Martin
Thank you. Yes, this is a good point. I think the perspective suggests that it was farther off than it really was but in future tests I will endeavor to be mindful of this.
Your videos are great. Comparisons are really easy for me to understand and you always give a great explanation so I know why you come to a conclusion . I’ve watched a few of your videos and taken on lots of tips to help improve my audio ( which is great for me being new to the this ) thank you
Thanks, I really appreciate the feedback and support!
My favorite interior mic is the MKH 50, it seems to have a little bit more bite than the scheops, which is also a great mic. The Audio Technica seems great for the price though.
I agree - the 50 definitely sounds a bit more aggressive. Great sound for the right piece.
Sensitivity and max SPL are important too. It's interesting to compare both parameters on the Schoeps and the Sennheiser. Also, the MKH40 is often preferred as it has a pickup pattern more close to the Schoeps 41, the MKH50 is a bit too tight. Also, size is somewhat important; I use Schoeps CCM41, a tiny version of the CMC641. I use them indoors and outdoors. SInce they are so small there is little pickup pattern deformation when used inside a windshield. I also use CCM41 + CCM8 as an MS-stereo pair when location permits (mostly on docus and certain kind of films) Wonderful sound, tiny and very light. MKHs are just a bit larger, more sensitive (but can handle 10dB more SPL at the same time!) and less noisy with a great sound, but they have a flatter more cool response vs Schoeps which are very sweet, colored in a very pleasant way. (just some late night comments from an european location sound recordist. Great videos Judd!)
More good points. Definitely appreciated - thanks!
on the mkh 50 what do you mean by a bit too tight ?
@@creativegreatsvisuals more directional than the 41
@@fer_fdi do u think the cmc1 is better than the cmc6u schoeps for humid conditions?
@@fer_fdi also what does more directional mean ?
The Schoeps sounds a bit more natural than the other two, but definitely any of the three would be fine for most applications.
👍
Thanks Curtis. Very nicely done.
Thanks for the feedback!
Hi Curtis, very nice comparison thank you! In a later comparison if you do can you please add the Sanken CS-M1 witch I am kinda leaning of buying lately because is great on a boom for interiors and it's great on cam too.
Thanks. Will need to find a way to buy a CS-M1. 🤓
@@curtisjudd Yes sorry, I though you had some easy ways to get gear for free ;-)! After all you are in my opinion the best audio gear reviewer out there . Thank you for your answer I am looking to get more info on this mic because it looks like a great allrounder (interior dialogue(less prone to reverb and room sounds) , on cam (good side isolation and great focus, and sooo short and light), and can easily double as an instrument mic for someone like me who does a lot of live music recordings. And its a Sanken! We all know they don't do bad mics. This one is well isolated and quiet and probably well made.
Sennheiser had the most isolation, albeit narrowly. The Schoeps however seemed to capture higher end better. Having said that, I went with the MKH 8050 for the size
All good.
Would love an outdoor Mic comparison!
You got it! 5 Shotgun microphones compared here: czcams.com/video/veD8BVXV3Ls/video.html
Oddly enough, comparing listens with headphones vs phone speakers I can actually hear a little more difference on my phone speakers. Lol
The Senn is clearly darker than the other two on both platforms but the difference I can hear between the AT and Schoeps is that the AT sounds very mildly more robotic, the Schoeps sounds very natural but I’m not sure what it is about the AT but it sounds a touch artificially boosted in the upper ranges. If I weren’t explicitly listening for differences I probably wouldn’t have noticed, but for me it is there. Great comparison.
Thanks, interesting that you heard more of a difference on phone speakers!
So, probably like others I normally wouldn't comment, fearing my perspective and relative lack of knowledge compared to others would be a poor cousin and no help to anyone. But I wanted to take the time to thank you for your extremely helpful explanations and clear information. It helped me to decipher the many offerings, seem half knowledgeable in store and finally pull the trigger on the MKH8050 which, while probably a little overkill for my situation, has solved my audio struggles with a horrible studio area and battling a Video Mic, NTG2 and sensitivity issue of an Oktava. The Expense is all relative though. Was it worth it ?...... every penny, dime, nickel or cent whatever currency matters as now I just don't have to worry about that one thing anymore. So, many thanks from me down here in Australia, I really appreciate you and your channel and i will keep subscribed !
Thanks and glad the 8050 is working well for you!
The thing I notice most, and this is listening on an inexpensive pair of Sony on-ear headphones, the Sennheiser seems to have a slightly fuller feel with a bit more bass response compared to the Schoeps and AT, and both the Sennheiser and Schoeps are much cleaner sounding than the AT, which seems like it'd be expected for the price difference. All sound fantastic though.
Thanks for that. Yes, the Sennheiser seems to work best for my voice from my perspective but I think the Schoeps is probably more "truthful". And I agree, all three are quite good.
great comparison! Thank You.
Thanks!
Awesome Curtis! Thank you.
You’re welcome James.
Always very thorough. thanks!
Thanks Ismael!
Congrats on 80k!
Thanks InvisiMan! If you hadn't heard, we're doing a microphone give-away to celebrate: czcams.com/video/jZCx5VBrtVk/video.html
I heard! Funny enough, I watched the give-away video and it played the next video automatically (this one), which is where my congratulations ended up! I'm already subscribed to this and Aputure's channel :)
I would say, "**may** be the truth." :)Great vid, exactly what I was looking for.
👍
This is the second video you've made where I've disliked the MKH8050 on your voice - the other one was the automix test. Schoeps was lovely, audio technica did really well. It would be interesting to hear them in a slightly livelier location. That said I'm choosing pleasant sounding realism over radio announcer. Ah well....
Fair assessment!
This is great review about those expansive microphones, Thumb up keep going,
I wish you support me in future because you have a ton of information.
Keep it up Mr. Curtis
+Sultan AlZaabi thanks you Sultan, I appreciate the support and encouragement!
Very nice video Curtis
Thanks!
Curt, you my Ol buddy Ol Pal Ol friend are the best.
Thanks Pal!
When you shoot these youtube videos, what are you using to boom the mic over your head? Would it also be suitable for a wider shot than the one you're showing here in this video? If not, what solution would you recommend for booming a wider shot on a solo operation where the talent is sitting still?
I'm using a K-tek boom pole on a century stand. If I wanted to go wider, I'd either use a lavalier or this technique for static shots: czcams.com/video/FUJ07WF-x30/video.html
@@curtisjudd ..
@@useruser2957 ..
@@curtisjudd 8050 or mkh50?
@@wcsdiaries Usually the MKH8050.
I once have a conversation with an engineer who designs speakers. And I ask him a question “ besides making a speaker to sound accurate, how do you make sure they sound musical as well?”. He told me that it is essential for speaker manufacture to test all kind of materials on the speaker. Different genre of music in various of languages. The engineer I was talking to is Japanese and he said there is a reason why Japanese pro audio product sounds so different to European. Languages. For instance, Japanese language does not have much sibilance when compare to let say English. Also Japanese languages is more rhythmic therefore more transients. Etc. what I am trying to say is: the warm sound of European microphones and brighter sound of Japanese all comes from their languages. Very nerdy info. However very interesting topics.
Interesting! Thanks for sharing!
Curtis, why do you persist with the 4053b when the 4051b is a cardiod? On paper isnt the 4051b the better option for indoor boom because of more rear rejection? Is there a reason everyone seems to go for the 4053b instead for indoor speech?
Hi Alan, generally for production sound, most mixers prefer a super cardioid polar pattern (or hyper in the case of the AT) for its more directional front. There are no hard and fast rules but cardioid polar patterns often do not have as much "reach" because of their wider pickup on the front. But again, do what works for you. There aren't any rules saying you cannot use a cardioid.
@@curtisjudd ok thanks.
Thanks for the very detailed explanation! Very cool and timely. I am looking to buy a new mic for my new CZcams/Green Screen Studio. In my setup the ideal place for the mic is over top of the camera which is about 8 feet away from me. I have a Samson Pencil Condenser mic which is going through my mixing board, to my computer.
At this distance, the sound is not great, I have to add way too much gain to pick me up, and then the mic it too live.
I did find that the ideal placement for it would be a ceiling mount just out of frame...about 3-4 feet from my standing position.
So that is option 1...or I could get a shotgun mic.
The question is, for the room I described, is there a particular mic you would recommend for this room?
No, I’d stick with a pencil condenser but get it closer. Within 18 inches will give the best results, but anything closer than 8 feet will be an improvement.
Great video ! Thanks again
Thank you
Well, I own just one, the AT 4053b. And I bought it used. The other two are clearly better, but the AT is way cheaper, and it is a huge improvement over using a Sennheiser ME66 indoors, which I had been doing.
+Scott Slotterbeck completely agree, the AT is really good value.
@@curtisjudd I can't tell a difference in the tests using a SoundBlaster g6 with Sennheiser 600 headphones. What should I be listening for and does it mostly come down to build quality and reliability?
helpful information,thank you for great content
Thanks Viktor.
Lets have some green screen fun with Curtis' jacket. 😃
I’m waiting.
Well presented. Thx!
🙏
If you are dirt broke and looking for a microphone for indoor dialogue check out the Samson C02 small diaphragm condenser microphone. The audio is not as pristine as any of these microphones but it will get you 90% of the way for 10% of the cost.
Agreed, we looked at it here: czcams.com/video/YDy75_ciuf8/video.html and compared it to 4 other mics here: czcams.com/video/q-b_1gOYOEQ/video.html
Nice, keep up the great work Curtis!
Thanks for your excellent revoiws! I´ve seen lots of them and they are truly awesome. I'm thinking about buying a hypercardioid, for a while the AT 4053B was on my to-buy-list, but now I've started to think about the Schoeps 641 and the DPA 4018 also... More expensive, yes, but if they are better, then maybee... Have you done any comparison between the Schoeps 641 and the DPA 4018, and if so, what´s your opinion?
Hi Mattias, I have the DPA 4017B shotgun but have not used the 4018. Based on comparisons I've heard, it sounds very good but since I already have the Schoeps, I cannot quite justify the 4018 in my budget, at least for the moment. Ty Ford did a nice comparison over here if you're interested: czcams.com/video/3rR4wqqMoc8/video.html
Thanks for the comparison, Curtis. (Even though you wet my appetite).
If I ever get very rich, I'll want a stereo pair of Schoeps CMC6, although probably with MK21 capsules for recording music. I think they're amazing. (Until then I'll make do with my Line Audio CM3s and OM1s).
Also here in your test I like the Schoeps best, but the Sennheiser is extremely nice as well. I can't quite make up my mind whether I like the AT or not. There seems to be something about all Audio Technica mics (the ones I've heard, anyway) that bothers me a little bit, but I can never put my finger on it, and I've no words to describe it.
👍 I like the CMC6 for the occasions where I record instruments.
You will love the MK21! The most versatile mic ever. I agree that the AT sounds cheap. The 8050 sounds good, but I had a pair of 8040's and preferred Schoeps in many situations.
1:20 You've told about this "wobbly sound" that can appear when using shotgun mics in reverberant environments in other videos too, however you only explain it in words. Could you please provide examples on what to listen for/what to avoid? I love your videos
Warbly like a bird. Yes, I’ll do that in a future video
I thoughts the AT4053b made the mids of your voice sound a little crunchier/fuzzier. MKH8050 has a muddier bass response than the 641 but that's easy to mend with the rolloff filter or in post.
Thanks. Interesting observations.
No Audix SCX-1? Good video anyway :)
The Audix SCX-1HC Seems to perform pretty well even when in the "Scoop" position. Something my Oktava MK-012 with Hyper Cardiod dose not. After finding the Audix SCX-1HC I stopped looking for an interior dialogue mic. It really performs extremely well.
We covered that with similarly priced microphones here: czcams.com/video/q-b_1gOYOEQ/video.html
Thank you Curtis Judd. Some how I missed that one. I very much appreciate your reviews and approach to conducting A/V gear assessments.
Audix SCX-1HC is an excellent budget choice. AT4053B was a good mic but had to return due to the low vibrating frequency pick up issue Curtis mentioned.
Hi Curtis, one question, but first, I've watched many of your videos, and want to thank you for such solid yet concise information. So helpful. Thank you...
Okay, in short, I have created a CZcams studio, it's time to decide on a solid mic for indoor recording talking head and occasional interview videos in a modestly sound-treated garage studio. I see all these reviews and CZcamsrs talking and using long tube shotgun mics...not outdoors, but indoors, in seemingly controlled, talking head environments. What gives?
Are they just using them incorrectly...IE, they should be going for a boom mic like you review here instead of a shotgun mic, or maybe perhaps using them outside (without mentioning that), or maybe they are using the shotguns because they have a completely untreated recording space, what?
The three boom mics you review in this video all seem great, and I'm strongly considering one, but what am i missing?
Hi, Shotgun microphones *can* be used indoors but when they are, they risk producing an effect that does not affect non-shotgun microphones: Off axis phase interference.
This occurs with shotgun microphones when the sound source (person talking) is slightly off to the side of the front of the mic and there is enough reverberation in the room ("echo"). What happens is that the mic captures this with a warbling sort of sound to the voice. It only happens if all of these factors line up perfectly, but it is an effect that cannot be fixed in post.
For this reason, many pro location sound mixers will not use shotgun microphones indoors. Some still do and in most circumstances are fine, it is simply a risk you take on when you do use a shotgun mic indoors.
So if all of your shooting will be indoors, I'd recommend going with one like the three we reviewed here and avoid that risk altogether.
Best wishes!
@@curtisjudd Wonderful, thank you so much for the response! Makes sense😎
Thank you Curtis! What is the main difference between the mkh50 and the mkh8050? Can the 8050 be used interchangeably?
does the schoeps cmc1 with mk41k capsule have rf protection your referring to ? the schoeps cmc6 doesn't have same rf protections ? why do u use the 8050 more than Cheops cmc6?
Solid info as always Curtis!! Self-taught audio guy here - and I've been getting intermittently poor/great results on indoor interviews from my 'investment' MKH416...and now I know why, thanks to your explanation. Ugh... (the daysaver has been my redundancy audio which is a RODE Wireless GO!!!) I am pretty keen on spending yet more of my savings on either the MK 50 0r the MKH 8050 for better indoor interview audio but another brand has come up in my research for a 'pencil' mic being the Neumann KM185 (obvs it's different to the Sennys in that it's hyper cardioid and not RF biased, so not quite an apples and apples comparison). Have you ever used these and if so, anything to comment on them? Thanks in advance :)
Hi Doug, thanks. I haven't used the KM185 first hand, but that's a classic mic and there are plenty of people who are very happy with the results. And I'm still using the 8050 as my primary indoor boom. Best of wishes!
I see a Curtis Judd vid, I upvote.
Thanks Shaheed!
Curtis - maybe I'm missing something: All the mics you are demoing are supercardioid (or hypercardioid for the AT4053B), so I'm confused as to why you are describing them as cardioid. Otherwise, a great review.
Sorry for the confusion, the explanation starting at 00:27 explains that I'm using "Cardioid" in a general sense here to describe boom microphones that are not shotgun microphones and have cardioid, super-cardioid, or hyper-cardioid polar patterns.
@@curtisjudd Oh, I see. Many thanks!
How does the MKH416 compare with these ones? A lot of people say it's the best.
416 is in a totally different category to this three! You shouldn't be comparing these together.
416 is a shotgun for outdoors, not indoors. But Curtis Judd is discussing ones for indoors.
Also the 416 is *not* "the best" shotgun, it is just a typical commonplace midgrade professional workhorse. Not a very high end one, but also not a low end shotgun. Just a solid workhorse that gets used a *lot*.
Sound Speed! Outdoors? So why thousands of people use it indoors and say only good things about it?
offaxis is awful, beside of this, it's useful for indoor, but a hypercardioid is always better. i use it often for in- and outdoor when i have no time to change in run and gun type shoots. then it's one of the best allrounders.
Agreed, it *can* work well indoors if there's not a lot of sound reflecting off of walls, but this is not it's intended use. People mainly like it for it's tight pickup pattern and reliability, even in humid conditions (it is also an RF bias microphone). You will definitely see a lot of CZcamsrs using it in all situations. Most pro sound mixers will choose other mics like the three we covered here for indoor use just to avoid the potential phase issues.
Thanks, Curtis. So which mic would you recommend to me for indoor use? I want to use it for talking into camera aka a-roll footage. I always thought I need to buy MKH416 mic for that but now I'm confused! For outdoor stuff, Rode Lav is plenty enough for my needs.
Everytime i am watching your video. Your videos are really good. One points, in schoeps microphone which model capsule it should use for indoor mono studio sound? It will help me. Thanks.
Hi Ahsanuzzaman, I use the MK41 capsule. It is has a hyper-cardioid polar pattern well suited for indoor booming. Best wishes.
@@curtisjudd Thank you Curtis judd for your answer MK41. Recently I am looking for a microphone, I have seen in website, but I didn't understand from schoeps at first. Your reply is very helpful for me. Thanks again to you.
Have you ever reviewed the Sennheiser E614 as an indoor dialogue microphone? Can't seem to find many good reviews of it. Even though its specifications are unimpressive, I really liked its sound in the few reviews I could find.
I haven’t. So many mics, so little time…
Great video Curtis. Thinking of getting the MKH-8050 for weddings (indoors). Currently use a MKH-416. Love the MKH-416, but too long for my Canon C70 when using certain lens combinations which can show in the footage. Would you still recommend the 8050 or do you suggest another mic to look at. Thanks
I really like the 8050 and use it all the time, but note that its polar pattern is not nearly as focused as the MKH416. So it can pick up a bit more ambient sound/noise.
Have you used your 8050 in car scenes or do you use something else. I'm looking at the 8050 for using in as many scenarios as possible for that price 😁
I usually use lavs up in the visors but the 8050 could do the job nicely.
Hi Curtis, I’m looking to shed some weight ti my boom set up. I currently have a mkh4060 but would like to replace it for a 8050 or even an 8040 ( I prefer a slightly wider cardiod). Two questions please are all the MKH range 60 50 40’s are they the same diameter thickness ( not length ) as I don’t want to buy new suspension if possible. Second question what did you notice about the reach difference between Cardioid such as 40 or 50 compared to shotgun MKH 416 or 4060, would I be fine to swing a cardiod inside and exterior? Would I need to get in closer to talent with a cardiod or it’s pretty similar ?
Many thanks
I believe they are the same diameter, but the lyres need to be optimized based on microphone weight. Cardioids are fine outdoors, in my experience. Always keep it as close as you reasonably can.
Thanks to your recommendation, I'm using the AT4053B on about. half my videos, I *LOVE*. the tonal quality. I am looking for a new Shotgun to use in some production though. I have the Azden SGM-250, which for the money is. a terrific deal, but I now have the budget to go bit higher upmarket. Any recommendations?
I love all your videos, I've learned so much from watching them :)
I really like the DPA 4017b which is compared to several others including the Azden here: czcams.com/video/veD8BVXV3Ls/video.html
I would also seriously consider the Sennheiser MKH 8060: amzn.to/2C4S0JH
Good luck and thanks!
Why they all sound distorted radio-like? Including the mic you use throughout the video. I checked on macbook, iphone, headphones. Its not much, but am I the only one noticing it ?
That is my mid-range focused voice - resonances at approximately 1kHz and 2kHz.
Curtis how the 8050 compares to the mkh50 for indoors CZcams videos (talking heads)? Thanks for the video!
Here’s my comparison: czcams.com/video/CqasOA0kFno/video.htmlfeature=shared
Thanks Curtis, always appreciate your help and efforts to share your knowledge!🎉
Hi Curtis, thank you for all your informative videos!
I would like to shoot a series of video interviews, with only one subject (average male non-sibilant voice) in my moderate acoustically treated home-studio. The interviews will be used for a documentary, and some only as voice-over (without image). After some EQ my aim is a rich, warm, “bigger than live” voice.
My idea is to put a voice over-mic (such as ElectroVoice RE20) sideways of the mouth, not covering the face (so I can edit it out of the shot in post production).
1) Would this achieve a better result compared to Sennheiser 8050 or Schoeps?
2) When applying EQ anyways, would I be able to achieve a similar result with a less expensive mic (if so, which one)?
Thank you.
Hi Udo, dynamic microphones like the RE20 really need to be within about 4 inches of the mouth of the person talking to sound right. I don't think you'll be able to put it out of frame and achieve the sound you want. That's where one of these pencil condenser mics will do a lot better.
Curtis wondering if you have had issues with increased sibilance with talent. I have had a few jobs where I would let the producer listen to the difference between my shotgun and my dialog mic and they would prefer the dialog mic but the sibilance would be an issue, however this for the most part is easy to remove as long as your post production has budget for it. Have you run into this issue.
Hey Jared, yes, all the time. And some microphones are definitely more sensitive in the sibilance range. On most of the productions I work on, I choose the boom mic we're going to use and often I try to get a sense for that while I'm putting the talent's lavalier on them. And sometimes, it just needs to be handled in post with a de-esser. If the producer is making that decision from a comtek feed, I'd be pretty wary and would at least have them use my headphones directly from the mixer to have a better listen.
You must be working with some amazing producers if they care enough about audio to actually want to hear various microphones and choose which to use. :)
Do you ever heard of lewitt lct 340 or shure ksm 137? I don't know anything about mic for film use, but i'm sure it should be suitable for indoor-booming needs. Hope you could review any of those too.
Hi Aditya, thanks for the tip on the Lewitt and Shure. I'll have a look at them.
Hi. Great reviews. I need a versatile microphone that I can use indoors and outdoors. What mic would you recommend. Money is not an issue. Thank you in advance.
The RODE NTG3 or the Sennheiser MKH416 or if money really isn’t an issue, BPA 4017B.
Nice video,I thought that the Sennheiser 8050 was like an hybryd between the 416 and the mkh50, could be?
Thans, I agree. The 8050 is quite similar to the 416 and 50.
I am curious if you think I should get one of these expensive Mics from my situation. I'm going to be recording someone in a Room where there is a road nearby and you can hear cars every now and then going by. I have a rode pin mic and Senhieser g3 lav system. I also have a rode NTG. So far the rode pin lav mic sounds the best. Do you think one of these mics in your video would sound better than my rate pin mic? The room is 16' wide by 28' long. The road nearby as all times of rumbling and voom sounds in various frequencies.
And if it helps this is the person I will be videoing czcams.com/video/kC4DP7CIgEE/video.html
In this video we are using the Senhieser lav system but it's using the kit Mic not the rode pin. I think the rode sounds better
My bet is that the Pinmic will pick up less ambient noise than a boom mic. Booms generally pick up a bit more ambient sound, part of the reason they sound more "natural".
Good stuff
Thanks Kris.
Interesting video. I'd be really interested to see how these high end mics compare with budget level.
Thanks Jenny. We did a comparison of several less expensive mics where the Audio Technica was the most expensive. You can see that here: czcams.com/video/q-b_1gOYOEQ/video.html
The AT came out on top from my point of view. So I see different leagues where you can get good results with the budget options if you work out all the skills to set them up, place them optimally, and use a good recorder/mixer with them.
I hope that helps!
Curtis Judd thank you. I'd forgotten see that video last year. The Audio Technica is beyond my budget and the Rode wasn't so hot.
I really couldn't tell much difference between the other mics, so I'm tempted just to go for the CO2's.
I noticed that the CO2s are sold as a matched pair and I wondered how that works out when mic's are sold individually, please?
I took your recommendation on the Boya BY-WM8 lav system and an very pleased, thanks!
The idea of matched pairs is that at the factory, they ensure that the frequency response of the exact two microphones are very close so that when you do a stereo recording, they will work well together. On microphones as affordable as the CO2's I'm not sure how carefully matched they are. When you buy microphones individually, there can be some variation which is mainly a problem for stereo recordings where you use the two mics in an XY or ORTF configuration. Not generally an issue for talking head or interviews or such. (I hope I understood your question). Happy recording!
Curtis Judd thanks Curtis. Yes, i understand sbout matched mics and stereo.
What I wonder is how it works if mics are bought individually.
Potentially fine or potentially badly if there is enough of a difference. I don't do a lot of stereo recording so I don't have any practical experience on this topic, but a many instrument mics can be bough it pairs so it is either a marketing strategy or enough engineers demanded matched pairs that it actually can make a difference.
Great content as always! If I can buy only one microphone for CZcams, indoor, out of frame boomed above my head, in a non-sound-treated (though not too echoey) room which microphone would you recommend? RODE NTG5+MixPre3 or Schoeps CMC641 (with the Schoeps is it a must to have a MixPre3 also)? Or something else? (Max. budget: 1500-2000 USD) Thanks!
I would probably choose the NTG5 and MixPre for my voice.
@@curtisjudd Thanks a lot! So great to hear that the NTG5 is a good option (and I've been in love with the MixPre - such a great relief that I can pull the trigger on that one - thanks again!)
Curtis, thank you so much for these videos! I have been considering upping my audio game for indoor dialogue, but I have a predicament. Should I spend my budget on mic (CMC 641) and keep recording on my H6? Or, should I get something like a Mix Pre and get something like a AT4053b? I like the idea of investing in a long-term mic, but I am torn. Thanks again!!!
I'd think that the microphone is the better long-term investment.
@@curtisjudd Thanks! I have heard others say to prioritize microphone over recorder, as long as the recorder is decent of course. Thanks again for the amazing content!
Hi Curtis, I know this an old video but it's one of the many few out there talking about the Sennheiser MKH 8050. I was so close in picking up a Sennheiser MKH 50 until I saw your video saying how the 8050 was basically the same mic but just the updated version. That has just stuck in my mind and now it's making me think of getting the 8050 instead. Firstly, if it's the updated version, then why not...plus, it's cheaper as well. I will use it mainly for indoor dialogue (short films, interviews). I just wanted to double check with you if you still think it's the best mic for indoor dialogue at that price point? I did like the sound from the MKH 50 in examples I heard where it gives a nice base sound. would that be same with the 8050?
On a slightly different note, would lav mics be better to use in a noisy environment if for example I wanted to capture audio of someone talking in a very busy hall full of people?
Thanks.
Hi Stu Co, We use the MKH50 at work and I use the MKH8050 for my personal projects. I find the MKH50 to be rather unforgiving on voices with a lot of mid-range energy so that the recording sounds rather harsh. The 8050 does not seem to have this same issue. I very much prefer the 8050.
@@curtisjudd Hi Curtis. Thank you very much for your reply. Much appreciated 👍
Call me crazy, but I can't tell the difference on the dialogue test between the three with two different pairs of reference headphones, trying with an external USB audio interface on my laptop, again straight into the laptop headphone jack (noticeably worse reproduction on all three direct from the laptop, so my ears aren't broken), and again with both pairs of headphones connected to my phone via USB-C adapter.
However, I can clearly tell the difference between the mics on your "5 Boom Microphones for Indoor Dialogue". What gives?
(Unrelated, but the AT4053B was my least favorite from that video. My best guess is that the other two mics sound very much like it - more broadcast-y and darker, less natural.)
On the female voice, I couldn't hear much difference. On my voice, the Sennheiser has a bit more bass response than the other two. The Schoeps seemed to emphasize my sibilance. The AT seemed most balanced on my voice. Of course, every voice is different so the different mics will favor different voices. In short, the differences are quite subtle. So if most of your audience isn't going to be listening to your content on high quality playback systems (e.g., phone speakers, earbuds, in-built mics on laptops or TVs) then none of these are going to make much of a difference.
have the AT mic, but replaced the hypercardiod elemt with a cardiod one so there's NO pickup from the rear of the mic.
Nice!
What about the Sennheiser MKE600 and MKH416 indoor used?
Got those covered over here: czcams.com/video/KVaKstb35LQ/video.htmlfeature=shared
Curtis - I have been using Rode mics - NTG3, NT5 and the Rode filmmaker lav set-ups to record indoor dialogue doing narrative comedy. I have long term access to a house as the set-- the largest living area has hard floors and 25' ceilings. Reverb is a big issue. I have blanketed the floor at times, but I cannot put acoustic treatment all over because it will show up in the framing. We are recording with mix pre's and we have a Zoom F8 for recording also. We can be filming one person or multiple people. I would really love to find a indoor boom mic/mics that would help to resolve this issue in the best (realistically) possible way. So best choices in some order would be great.
Thanks! --Stu Schnurman
Hi Stu, close miking is the best you can do in reverberant spaces if you cannot use sound blankets or other damping materials. Note that hanging blankets behind the camera can help a lot as well. Anything that can absorb some of the sound waves anywhere in the room is good. There really aren’t any magical mics that do this on their own.
@@curtisjudd
Hey Curtis. Thanks for the response! After watching your video on the Schoeps C641 and the Senn-8050 etc...I thought there could be some improvements with different mics. We have been using dual cameras to capture the dialogue flow in the comedy, but going to one camera would create the space we need to throw some blankets up and also down on the floor. Behind the camera is a good idea. I guess my only question back to you is...with a one camera setup, blanketing as mentioned...would it help to change mics....and what would be the prefered mic. We are now budgeting for new equipment and new mics and lavs are part of this.
Thanks!
Stu
@@bicraven These mics are great, but I'm not sure they'll give you more reverb isolating capability. I personally use the 8050 as my main mic for indoor dialogue and am very happy with the results on a consistent basis. But I still have to do all of the blanketing work in reverberant rooms to get the results I want.
Not sure if this will help, but I guess it wouldn't hurt trying other than spending a little money. If you can rent a Sanken CS3e and try it in the room, I own one, and although indoors I use my Schoeps cmc641, I've heard the Sanken does really well indoors for a boom mic. It's off axis rejection is really incredible. Love that mic.
@@siniarch 👍
Thanks for the best audio videos on CZcams! I’m looking to up my audio game and want to invest in Schoeps; now do you think the CMIT5 shotgun mic is really only good for outdoors and I should also get the CMC461 to go along with it? Or is the difference nuanced enough that I can have great audio for my documentary projects with just the CMIT5?
I'd start with the CMIT and only add the 641 if you feel like you need it later.
@@curtisjudd Which makes the voice sound deeper mkh 50 or 8050?
@@wcsdiaries About the same. If you want the bassy, proximity effect, get either of them as close as possible to the sound source.
whats the difference in the 2 ? @@curtisjudd
If i could subscribe again and again I will till u get 100k hehe
good review Curtis! As always! =)
Haha, thanks Mikhail!
I would love to watch 2020 remake of this video. Hint hint..... :) I’m in the market for a high quality indoor mic, to make videos just like yours (male talking head “interview“).
The MKH8050 is still my indoor boom mic of choice in 2020. So that's good news - nothing to update, at least as of now. 😀
@@curtisjudd can the 8050 be used for Foley? I'm starting my first one man band, short film. I have the budget for one mic, I have the TL47 Lav now. I was considering the 416, but after watching your videos, I'm leaning more toward 8050/8060. Most of the scenes are indoors, or quiet outdoor (evening/night). Any input would be appreciated. Thanks!
@@misterunfocused7818 Yes, certainly you could use the 8050 for foley. Just keep in mind that its polar pattern is a bit wider than the 8060 or most other shotgun microphones. "Forgiving" is one way to describe it. But also, "Not as Focused". The 8050 is my favorite to use for indoor dialogue when the space is quiet.
@@curtisjudd thanks for the response. I looked at some more videos by you and I'm thinking what might be more appropriate for my budget and shooting situation, is a second TL47 lav, and an NTG5. I appreciate your input, and your videos, so thank you again
Hi Curtis, hope you’re well. I wanted to ask if you would be able create a video or shed some light on how you achieve that blue background as well as the blue right light around you face. I normally use Philips hue bulbs for the background, but I get too much light spill from my key light.
Thank you.
-Samar Ali Khan
Hi Samar, yes, a tutorial is on my list. The short version: Use tungsten colored key light, white balance the camera to tungsten, then use a daylight or cooler colored light on the white paper backdrop. More to come.
did Schoeps ever get the audio kinks worked out of the CMC6. i know a lot of mixers in hollywood went back to the Schoeps CMC5 or should i say had a new/old one made?
The issues with humidity or are you referring to other issues? I'm not aware of any changes.
Great review, as always! However, none of those 3 mics are true cardioids, actually. The 8050 and the CMC641 are super-cardioids and the 4053b is a hyper ;)
Agreed and thanks for the clarification. I used the generic "cardioid" term to refer to the variations (super, hyper, etc.) and should have explained.
Hi Mr Judd ... I have a question that requires your experience......
Would a very good preamp, improve the sound quality of a not too expensive microphone?
A little. It won’t fix a poor quality mic but will help it operate at its best.
Hey Curtis! I We really love your videos! We got the MKH 416 mic along with MKE2 lavs. Now we are trying to decide what indoor mic to get. Do you recommend the MKH50 or the MKH 8050? They are both indoor Supercardioid mics and cost $1200. I'd love to see a video on the entire line of the MKH series.
Hi Space Fire, I own the 8050 and have worked a bit with the 50. My personal preference is for the 8050 which seems a little smoother. The 50 sounds a bit more aggressive. That's my biased opinion. 😉
@@curtisjudd thanks for the recommendation!
@@curtisjudd What do you mean aggressive? As in deeper?
@@wcsdiaries No, more mid-range sensitivity and on some voices, downright harsh.
Hey Curtis, what is the reach difference like on the 8050 vs the Schoeps? I'm considering buying either a CMC641 or an 8050... but I'm worried if spending the additional $500CAD for a CMC is worth it over the 8050. So many mixers have trusted the Schoeps for so long, and I haven't seen any 8050 testimonials anywhere. The frequency response up close seems too similar to tell the difference, I think my deciding factor will be the reach. Thanks for the videos!
Hi Nathan, the concept of "reach" when talking about microphones is a bit misleading. Really it is a consideration of how directional the microphone's polar/pickup pattern is relative to another microphone. The white noise samples here show that they're quite similar. So from that point of view, they each have similar "reach".
My take is that if you want a less colored sound and you will not be regularly recording in especially humid environments, the Schoeps is great. If you light the slightly colored/warmer sound or will be recording in very humid environs, the Sennheiser is probably the better choice.
I hope that helps!
Thanks for this! I live in British Columbia, we get fairly radical humidity shifts throughout the year. I'll have to talk with more local mixers/boom ops to see if their Schoeps have had issues.
Hey Curtis, I finally went ahead and bought myself an mkh 8050. Still haven't been able to test it fully though. I wanted to know what suspension and/or wind protection do you use with the mkh 8050?
Hi Vipul, congratulations on the new microphone! I usually don't use the 8050 outdoors, but if I did, I'd use my Rycote Cyclone which is a windshield plus shock mount. You could use the small version.
I have the Rode NT5 MP mic but was wondering what would be the next major step up for audio quality for mic? I would be using mic for indoor dialogue for recording training videos primarily but would like to use it for interviews as well. I have a sibilant voice so a mic that can handle that well would be good.
Hi Michael, a super or hyper-cardioid is probably the next logical step. I found the Oktava MK-012 to work nicely with sibilant voices: czcams.com/video/iLOp-_oIzeg/video.html
What techniques did you use to get that shadowing of the 2 of you ? That was really cool. I want to do that as well.
#CurtisJudd @CurtisJudd
Light on the back wall, no light on the subject like this: czcams.com/video/a1F-7f-IryY/video.html
Putting my vote in for the Shure KSM137 - incredible sound
Sounds interesting for stereo recordings and music. Do you also use it for recording film/video dialogue?
I've used it for everything inside. Voice over proximity is normally about 30cm (GH5 unboxing for example), can try a comparison with some others out at a metre if you want. Otherwise I use it for choirs, drums, instruments, ambience. Was recommended to me by Jim Deal Mastersound and it's been a terrific work horse. Having said that, I know Ironfilm keeps to their shotguns inside. Filmsets seem to be noisy places.
Ok, that makes more sense. Thanks!
Hey Curtis, really stuck between the Sennheiser 8050 and the MKH 50 for indoor dialogue. Am I overthinking or does one have an advantage over the other?
Hi Dillon, I have used the MKH50, but not extensively. All I can say is that having used both of them, and the 8050 fairly extensively, I have no regrets going with the 8050.
@@curtisjudd Thanks for the quick reply, you have a lifetime subscriber