Is A Steering Wheel Faster Than A Gamepad?
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- The wheel might be better for immersion, but can you be as fast on a gamepad?
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6:05 my rap career gets off to a rocky start :(
Jimmy Broadbent what will you show us? I missed it :c
just curious if you're gonna show us the outlap or nah?
Jimmy Broadbent won't the real outlap please stand up
I can't remember which update it was but Reiza added some really nice dampening effects into AMS for gamepad users. Gives you a nice linear steering input.
Freestyle Rap stream coming soon?
Keyboard and mouse is the input method of choice for real heroes.
i played racing games with a keyboard my whole life, and now im getting a T150 for a more realistic experience
Manual with clutch on a keyboard is a hard boi
I’m a keyboard player
Come on, Steve. The real drivers are either using Rock Band drums or Wii Remotes
JSR Devon Lmao, I did try rock band drums once. Set a few WRs actually.
For smoothness, what i usually do is push the gamepad stick forward, and then just use it basicly like a wheel, that way the steering itself is hella smooth (not the jerky left-right bumps).
I do the same thing on GT Sport
Actually genius, gonna try that one out
Its just that sometimes the controller doesn't recognise minimal movements as it wasn't designed to have such sensitivity.
Hmm never thought of that, nice idea. Will try that and see what it's like.
I do this on gt sport, but i always forget to push it all the way over in tight turns
I have just started using a wheel and pedal setup in the last month, having used gamepads since original GT on PS one. I wouldn't say I am quicker yet but the one thing i noticed straight away was, how much less uncomfortable, the whole experience is on wheel. In order to try and obtain accuracy with a gamepad, i used to tense my whole upper body, right down to my hands, in an effort to provide a stable platform for my thumbs to make the tiny adjustments necessary on the analogue sticks. It would give me extremely tense neck and back related discomfort within 5 minutes of using the pad. now I feel I can drive for hours in relative comfort. It is exactly what I had hoped for and I won't be going back to pad anytime soon. BTW, I am 57 years old and a bit too old for all this shizzle, probably.
Well that makes me feel better at 42, but also i am looking forward to that when i can afford a wheel, im constantly and consciously trting to relax my body using a pad jnowing that that translates to a faster time
I'm 49 and just got my first game F12017. Never gamed in my life and only had first try yesterday, the tension in my body was ridiculous, I can only imagine how much easier on the body a wheel and pedal would be. Got to race first round in Australia today, crashed out...
Theres no age limit for having fun
@@oxyiscool tbh it takes time to properly handle a gamepad if you've never used one.
@@KaptainKerl yep, I'm getting smoother and more relaxed. I actually prefer to stand while playing, my wife is having a good laugh as I twist and turn with each corner
Another interesting aspect of this is that many (as in, literally all) console racers apply not just input filtering and sensitivity adjustments for the controller, but the actual physics of how the car is controlled is different. In a console / gamepad optimized driving game, the steering angle is actually not at all directly related to your stick input - it's actually a combination of your car speed, gamepad stick angle, and a bunch of other tuning parameters. Basically it assures that you have optimal steering angle at all times - that's why you usually can't turn the wheels at a huge angle relative to your direction of travel...
But in Assetto Corsa and most PC sims, that functionality doesn't exist at all - so even though you can adjust sensitivity and "speed sensitivity" (poor mans version of the perfect steering angle trick), you run into the issue you see in the video - the wheels turning too far and scrubbing massively.
Just an interesting little tidbit as to why console racing "sims" / games feel so nice to drive, and the actual car physics may actually be quite good and realistic - but the only reason you can drive them confidently with a controller is because, behind the curtains, you are only really half responsible for what's happening :)
Mythricia I wouldn't call it the perfect angle, as the angle is based off the games best line usually. Take the F1 games for example. The controller cannot quite reach the wheel, just because you can get those fine inputs on the wheel that you will never achieve on controller. Games on console usually tend to differ between the two as which one might be better. All based on how the creators code it. Usually though, it's the wheel.
I dissagree, I prefer the raw input games like rf2, ac and iracing give. It's much more responsive and if you have precise control over your fingers it actually is nicer than the way steering works in games like forza and gt. Consoleracers often use the joystick in a way that is basically 'digital' steering (flicking the stick left and right like Jimmy in this video). That is what the filtering etc you're refering to in Forza and Gran Turismo is used for, to smooth those crazy inputs out. But with raw input you need to learn to make small and linear movements so you can utilize the analoge function of the joystick. You need to have a little bit of surgeon like fingers though, but not everybody haves that.
Erik Heijden with the raw input you get to be really concentrated compared to console games, and this just makes you better. When I switch from AC(I don't have a wheel) to something like Project Cars I need at least 5 laps of accommodation.
Mythricia i turned those annoying assists of years ago now im getting way better times
F1 does the same. Even on PC.
You can be as a fast with a pad, but in races where tyre wear and endurance comes in, the wheel gives a big advantage
SigmanApex87 and then there is me keyboard pleb the queen of conserving tires and fuel in my league.
But playing with a pad is less tiring, and makes it easier to be consistent over longer periods...
Nah
Only physically due to less physical movement involved, but mentally you have to be constantly super focused because it's much harder to control the controller as precisely as you would with a wheel.
Stick extenders are the way to go
Y’all nerds here with gamepads and wheels and I’m racing with a thrustmaster t16000m flight sim joystick
have you heard of the dk bongos? only GODS use that
Used to use a joystick with old games like Grand Prix 4 and IL2 Sturmovik. Easier to be smooth than with a pad.
@@junienet only GODS use telepathy
Now I want to actually try racing with my flight stick setup.
ill use my atari gamepad, fite me xD
The real pros are using a guitar hero guitar and wii remote
Lokki 1 DDR pad is where is at man
the A S C E N D E D are using a laser gun
I personaly prefer a tv remote.
No, the real pros send directional input via morse code.
The real pros use bananas
BUT I WILL.. BUT I... BUT I WILL SHOW YOU GUYS MY OUTLAP. Brilliant, Jimmer. Timestamp : 6:05 for anyone that wants to see the glorious uncut Jimmer.
*uncut brit boi has something to show the guys (NOT CLICKBAIT)*
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
You can be just as fast with a pad, but consistency is easier with a wheel. (My opinion)
Everything is easier with a wheel
Oh nice to see you in here Z!
metalmike04 Hey there Mike 👋🏼
Noreceipts400 I feel like the word "easier" isn't true. If you immediately go from a controller to a wheel it's not going to be easier. It will be difficult. Vice versa for wheel to pad players.
Cool to see all these simracers, you SuperGT JSRDevon and Jimmy all in one spot! cheers man.
Having driven exclusively with a pad for the last year and finaly getting a wheel, I must say that the bigest difference is how fun it is! Yes you can drive much much beter with a wheel with less effort. and you can make saves that would not have been even remotely possible on a pad. But the biggest difference is that it's just so much more fun with a wheel.
From what I hear, the biggest thing really is comfort. In order to get the small adjustments (ignoring controller settings for the sake of discussion) people tend to tense up much of their upper body so that the fingers can have that rigidity to make small changes. I've experienced this myself as I'm starting to get into Codemaster's F1 games.
Try this, first, get the shifting on the bumpers (R1 up, L1 down). THEN, the magic trick is, you want to hold your steering joystick with your thumb fully up OR down, and keep it there when going straight, then to turn just slide it on the rim progressively to the steering input you want to give but always keep it maxed out to control your input by merging it in the inactive Y axis. You want to have the input as raw as possible so no saturation, max or near max sensitivity and on and on. I played many hours on trusty race 07 and was wicked fast with the FWD touring cars which require quite a bit of finesse on the tight road courses. This trick only works with games that allow you to use 100% RAW input. Even though some games may say you are using raw input in the settings there may still be dumb controller assists. Usually using a wheel profile fixes this, but on pretty much every console game there sadly always are unremovable assists. Hope this helps!
This is what I've found to work. Steering only on the X axis results in way too big of an adjustment, so I reserve it for slow/closed corners, while steering with the stick slightly upwards when on a straight. :) I don't like the shifting on the bumpers tho, because I'm used to accelerating with my index finger
For me I found it hard to use the bumpers for up/down shifts. I always used X/B for shifting and A for clutch so I can clutch shift with 1 button.
B U T I W I L L S H O W Y O U G U Y S M Y O U T L A P
I can confirm that it is absolutely possible to be as fast as with a wheel using a pad if you are used to It. I am racing with a friend who has done over 200h in R3E with a pad. We race a few times a week online and he is just as fast as all the other guys with wheels. He has learned to read the movement of the car only from the image without physical Feedback, just by putting a lot of time in it. His only disadvantage is that his front tyres wear out faster, because he can't feel the point where the car starts understeering.
Marius Reiter Absolutely. If you have very precise fingers that's defenitely possible. Not many people can master it, but some do.
I do this on AC. I have also put in hundreds of hours, round Nordschleife especially. 9 our of 10 times I finish 1 or 2 second in qualifying in most lobbies I enter, but over the course of the race it is a disadvantage as I lose the front tyres, but that can’t be helped. I am extremely precise with the movement and even 1mm of movement is sometimes enough.
@RUBY DA CHERRY no that's not true that anyone can learn it. I have probably put 1000s of hours on a game pad on forza, yes it's not a proper sim but still requires precise movements and I'm not very smooth at all, I have a hard time being precise, but I have that trouble with most things though.
@@WarburtonsToasty and that throws you out of serious competition. so ... wheel is needed
Any trick to solve the front tyre over-heat problem? I always steer-lock the tyre and make the front tyre overheat in no time.
This is the best sim racing channel on CZcams.
*_YES_* cause he have a $2800 sim rig correct me if im wrong
@@retrogaming7581 expensive equipment is not why he has the best channel. I could buy more expensive gear but still be a shit streamer. It's a combination of several factors, the fact that he is super entertaining most importantly as well as being able to do real time commentary while putting in fast lap times.
@@SS-bk2zb *_o Ka Y_*
Retro Gaming just his direct drive motor is 3000 bruh.
@@mrcontroversy222 thats why said correct me thank you
Joystick extenders are a big help as well for extra fine steering input.
Awesome video dude. Not everyone can afford or have the room for a wheel/sim rig, so this is really encouraging to bring people into sim racing even if they use pad. And tbh this was a VERY tricky combo of car and track - a super powerful Group C car with no driving aids on a Brands Hatch track with a lot of elevation changes and tricky corners. I'm sure on other kinds of track, and with more modern cars - especially ones that use some driving aids by default like GT3 or LMP2 cars - this could be even closer.
Armbar Arcade i wouldnt play if i couldnt affoard real gear
At this point, I'm likely an oddity in the sim racing world, but I've found myself to be slower when using my wheel compared to my game pad. It could very well be due to how much practice I've had prior to getting my wheel (Assetto Corsa included), plus there are times where I'm too lazy to get my wheel set up and just want to run a few laps, so grabbing my XBox One controller and plugging it in one of my PC's USB slots takes considerably less time to set up. That said, you certainly do have to focus a lot more with a pad since there's very little feedback as to what the tires are doing unless the game incorporates trigger rumbling.
Let's ask JSR Rayzer JDM: sets #1 on community events in PC2 with a wheel then beats his time with controller to take the piss.
It's possible to be fast on controller but it's way more work than I'm willing to put in and nowhere near as fun
^
agreed
Also depends on what you're playing. Good luck getting decent on Assetto Corsa or PCars 2 with a controller, but on something like Forza, most if not all of the best guys aren't using wheels.
Pedro, did you even read my comment? I said he does it in Project CARS 2. And we know about Forza being a controller game, the team is Forza based and top 3 in the world
Wait, Rayzer JDM is a beast on PC2 as well? Now I'm even more impressed. Sorry for not reading it properly, but really, as you've said, you can be fast, but it takes too much time and it's not as enjoyable.
You can definitely be just about as fast on a gamepad as you can on a wheel setup, I've been racing with a gamepad so long I hardly notice any sensitivity issues after a bit of tweaking to the settings. Great video Jimmy!
The faster the car the less sensitivity you'll want on the controller. Try it with an F1 car and you'll see just how much better the wheel is. Consistency is another huge factor as well as stress levels.
@Finq08 No. Still far more space than with controller. I drive "need for speed high stakes" (the old nfs 4 of 1999) with 100° rotation because there I need it possible to make quick steering direction changes especially on fast cars. And 100° is still so much more space to play with than that little tiny stick of a gamepad
Definitely want to see the keyboard video lol
I tried it, and made a video on it(different channel)
The keyboard actually was better than the controller. It still felt like complete shit, but it wasnt as twitchy because the game was made well for wheels, pretty badly for keyboard but complete trash for controllers
If you put the virtual steering wheel rotation to 1080° it changes the whole game and feels pretty good tbh
It's not much about speed, using a wheel instead of a controller gives you much much more consistency throughout the laps... but with a proper setup and years of training, even gamepad can be very consistent. Oh, and thanks Jimmer, great video as always
Maybe you should try the chase cam with joystick/gamepad. In my experience, I drive better on a chase cam view than in a cockpit.
if it's a 1 second on brands hatch, it can be 10+ seconds different on Nordschliefe. So a wheel is still important
JImmy, I use a gamepad/controller and it is pretty easy to steer if you use this method: don't go directly left to right or right to left, but instead to be smoother, go from the left or right, along the edges of the area it can go, to the top, and so on. It really helps.
True need to gentle, plus you require several settings like steering sensitivity, speed sensitivity and etc
How fast can Ouya go Bankrupt around the Nordschleife?
In less than a milisecond.
metalmike04 yeah but TELEVISION
My experience says that you can be really competitive with the gamepad on tracks that are typically high speed with mainly medium-to-fast corners. However when you hit a track which is more tight and technical, and doesn't afford you to really hit full throttle (such as Monaco) then that's when a wheel will always beat you.
Pads don't work well in situations where you need to read the track quickly in order to put down a fast lap. Also the lack of real force feedback is a real disadvantage in these situations because you can't feel how the car is behaving which for me is an important aspect in being able to put down a fast time on the more technical tracks.
As a guy with a couple hundred hours of sim racing on a controller, that steering sensitivity makes my eyes bleed haha.
Looked like he was using the D pad lol
Nice Vid.
If you dislike understeer on corner entry then a 962 is a bad choice. It has no differential and needs to be driven differently in order to make the front grip.
Basicly trail braking and feeding the steering in gently is the opposit of what you should do in that car. You want quicker/harder weight shifts so the inner rear wheel unloads and slips.
10:05 the character move his steering wheel like me if i drive a car in real life
I can't remember which update it was but Reiza added some really nice dampening effects into AMS for gamepad users. Gives you a nice linear steering input.
When my wheel broke and my controller started glitching out i used a thrustmaster joystick on dirt rally. I actually learned it pretty well and got some top 150 times
I can hot lap and do short races in which I can drive well with a 360 pad, however, the wheel is far more consistent and accurate andis far smoother resulting in safer driving and more dependable long term results. The vibration ffb on controller is very useful in relaying tyre slippage, understeer, oversteer etc, and the sound too is an aid in getting a read on the car esp as I drive always in car view.....And the ammount of tweekability in the sim I play (R3E) means also that a LOT more tweeking is needed to find settings that are both responsive and smooth, but is possible.... The keyboard warriors are on another level and I am in awe of those that can keep up with the pack esp over longer races... max respect! (Go Bulg!)
I couldn't use one to a competitive level. But I can tell many times when other drivers are on a pad. It just doesn't look so quite as smooth but there are exceptions to that I'm sure.
I noticed while you were on the pad your steering was jerky and you went full lock quite a bit, I usually push the steering stick up and have it go along the rim and I got smoother steering, I hope this helps other controller people!
"This video was made possible by my former sponsors"
Robber enters Jimmys garden
Robber = "Hmm Nice, Medium sized house..... That shedd looks like its about to break down. Probably going to break dow-
Jimmer in his garage - " And this wheel setup costs thousands of dollars."
Well I think its time for Jimmy to sell his wheel and pedals and become full pad player for life!
Hey didnt expect to see you here
I am everywhere
But did you wreck JD in the pro draft like I told in the stream?
Brendon Leigh Yo Brendon
Swap 10 pads for the rig?
This is the good thing about Forza's games. You can have a more "realistic" driving in a game pad, you can make the steering setups as you wish and turn on/off some driving assists as "manual with cluch" and other stuff
I got my best times on the Nürburgring with a Kinnect.
I know this video is a year old but I have just got into Racing Sims, no idea why it took soooo long considering I've been an avid fan of Gran Turismo since the PS2 and have already invested loadsa-money on Flight Sims which brings me to my point. I am currently player Assetto Corsa and Project Cars 2 using a hybrid setup, as in an Afterglow Xbox 360 Controller and my Thrustmaster Pro Flight Rudder Pedals - yep you just read that right, Flight Sim Rudder Pedals. I have locked the rudder function but the left/right independent wheel brakes are just the same as any throttle/brake pedals with full calibration and are spring loaded, they actually work perfectly well after some jiggery-pokery of config files.
I use the Xbox controller for clutch, handbrake (trigger buttons), steering (left stick), gear up/down (left/right buttons) and the D-pad and A, B, X, Y, Start, Back buttons for ABS, TC, Brake Balance, KERS, DRS, Lights, Horn, Whippers etc depending on the type of car I am using (Road, Track or F1). For each of those car types I have the settings in a separate profile that I use as the template for individual cars which I can modify on a car-by-car basis if needed.
Have you come across anyone else who has done anything like this? For Assetto Corsa it took hacking of the controller config file in a text editor which for me was no issue although getting the steering nicely balanced did try my patience and took a while but all is perfect now.
PS: I only did this as I have yet to invest in a wheel and pedals and I only got these racing sims a week ago! I am looking at getting the Thrustmaster Ferrari F458 Italia Racing Wheel as an entry level wheel. NOT because it is a Ferrari product I hasten to add - hell now, I'm not part of the tifosi and never will be, I'm 100% Lambo man, and a 5 times stroke surviving Lambo man ;)
If cars used controllers instead of steering wheels, Stefan Bellof would still be alive today and Maldonado would be an F1 champion.
A simulated car will be the only thing your kids can do in 20years time
I'd love to see a keyboard video. I also know for a fact that a lot of people simrace using a mouse for steering, that could make an interesting comparison too.
Jimmy is the guy that turns off traction control when using a pad. While the rest of us die even with traction control
Louis Swanepoel hahahaha
I actually struggle in a GT4 car with TC... :')
I never used Traction Control or Stability on pad when I started Assetto...
Louis Swanepoel I’ve been getting used to zero traction control. Using a game pad. Not as bad as it sounds. I’m no jimmy, but halfway decent. You get used to it quickly in my opinion.
@@kpag3030 Yeah, I never used TC, I was unable to drive RWD for a while
Nah. I usually have ABS on but they can't get the brakes right even with pedals.
That's normally the only aid I use.
I just bought Assetto Corsa today and im downloading it right now. I just have a game pad to play currently so this video was a HUGE help to start racing in this game. Awesome video Jimmy love your content. Keep it up, greetings from South-America
But will he show us guys his outlap? 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
Reminds me of years ago when my G25 wheel died right after the warranty expired. But the pedals still worked, so I started using my Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 for steering. It worked great for Shift and Shift 2, but wasn't supported by any racing games after that. I was rarely the fastest, but was consistently competitive, so it was a lot of fun. I'm eyeballing my Logitech MOMO wheel (Red housing) that's been stored away for a long time, but really want to get some Fanatec gear.
Fair winds and following seas to all.
Jimmer, can we start a thicc sim boii and related clothing company? I have hundreds of shirts and a press in the garage, high quality. We can make some wonderfully funny shirts
where can I pre-order ;)
Something that's helped me with a pad, not necessarily be faster but to be smoother, is to swap the gear shifts around. So up is on the left bumper and down is on the right. Counter-intuitive aqnd takes a bit of practice to un- and relearn, but it means you don't have to move fingers around to stay on gas or break *and* shift.
i played my 1st 200hrs of ac with a ps3 controller that spazzed out when i squeezed it too hard
Talking from years of experience with gamepads, the biggest problems I personally have with pads on racing games is not being quick, but being consistent. This might not be the best example but it happens generally with all racing games I play. Lately I have been playing a lot of F1 2018, and I find myself having very painful, cramped fingers after some sessions (1 - 1.5 hrs) of driving, setting hotlaps.
When I played with a wheel I also had cramped fingers but after 4 to 5 hours of playing. It's much easier to set a faster lap as well without having to force your hands in quirky positions on a gamepad
The best drivers use trackpads.
Pfft, that is weak sauce, real men use Guitar Hero controllers
Pfft I use my 1981 casino lcd watch number 3 in the world here 🌍🌍🤘🤘😂😂😂
Probably everybody already said that your voice is so the same so original and natural formula 1 commentator! 🙈
Nobody cares about speed, realistic feel and immersion is the point.
One cool trick for precision with a gamepad: push the stick forward so that it rests against the side of the controller and drag against it.. because it is shaped like a circle.
if a pad was faster, they use that in a real car. people who say its faster is cause they dont know most of the games have steering help for the pad so even if you turn it all the way the car only turns just enough not to oversteer. i respect pad players also but theres no way a pad is faster with no assits whatsoever
Alvaro39MG I guarantee I can go faster that Jimmers original lap he set on the steering wheel, on my pad. I have put 100’s of hours into assetto cross on a pad, with no assists and I’m only 2-3 seconds off world records for certain tracks. I agree it’s not anywhere near as smooth, but to say you can’t beat a time is ludicrous.
You’d be surprise
I'm playing Assetto Corsa with XBox Pad my whole life and it works. When i compare my laptimes at RSR, i have to say i'm pretty competitive. The only disadvantages with the pad is consistency and driving at the limit depending on the car.
Your wheel actually makes the game significantly harder than it has to be in order to help simulate the reality we are all craving. Take away most of the force feedback and bleed away some of the games realism and I’m sure you could run much faster with a wheel than a game pad.
so...reality is harder than games? is that the takeaway?
John Parker no. Without force feedback there is no clues about the any of the information about the tires or the traction or anything. Believe me, I’ve compared a non force feedback wheel to a force feedback one.
What do you mean take force feedback away? Lmaooooo even on my Xbox controller I need force feedback to know wtf is going on
uhhh... don't really think you can have force feedback on a controller
BeanyB0b I think he meant vibration
The pace difference between the $30 setup and the $1000+ is minimal, if any. The issue with gamepads is that the entire 900/1080/whatever degrees of rotation is controlled through an inch throw whereas the wheel can match the actual vehicle rotation. This is important when you need very fine, very consistent performance, the gamepad simply doesn't give you that very fine level of control.
Which is why you can usually tell a gamepad driver from a wheel one just by watching the way they go around the track. Where the wheel using driver will be nice and smooth down the whole length of the track you'll see the pad driver's vehicle jerking from side to side, especially if you watch the front wheels - instead of slowly rotating left/right they'll be bouncing around.
So basically it comes down to how hard you're willing to practice and how much time you're willing to spend on it. Put in enough effort and time and you'll top the boards with a gamepad, or get the same after a half hour practice with a wheel that cost at least 10X what the gamepad does.
I found rolling the analog stick from full ‘Up’ position to the left and right is better than pushing left or right from the central/neutral position.
But whatever works for someone is good.
I remember going from controller to the wheel. Was not an easy as U think transition. I never spent more than an hour racing at a time on controller but with the wheel I’ve chucked away entire days. T300 Ferrari Alcentera
Before getting a wheel, i used to play all games with keyboard. I only got a wheel after facing snowy rally stages with m3 in dirt rally. What is interesting, when playing grid autosport, i used to run faster times with keyboard than with the wheel. I wasn't really used to the wheel back then, so i might give it a try again, after playing with a wheel for almost 2 years.
I competed in top split Blancpain Sprint Series in 2016 with a PS4 controller because my wheel died, as a 4k irating driver my lap time with a pad was only 0.2s off my lap times with the wheel, but I lost more time later in the race as the faster scrubbing on the front tyres meant hotter rubber and more tyre wear, so I was struggling by the ends of the races.
Still saw me get a couple of top 10's and always in the top half of the field. You can definitely be fast with a gamepad, you can even be consistent. But you'll never be as smooth as with a wheel.
Saved controller configurations : (some normal names) , yeeeeeet
Great video as always!
I got a G920 at Christmas time and have only had a few hours to play since, and haven't come close to my controller times yet, mostly on Dirt Rally. I don't even have the force feedback dialed-in to where it's actually...fun yet?, which I find really weird. I think I find it easier to do subtle throttle/brake steering with my trigger fingers than a non-pro sim setup where the pedals and seat are in an unrealistic location and always at risk of sliding around. It's not even so much the immersion that I got the wheel for as that my aging fingers find trying to do fine steering inputs on a tiny controller stick increasingly difficult.
James Carruthers I was same way for several months. But eventually i caught up to my controller times and then surpassed them by a long shot. Doing Dirt Rally as well. So hang in there. You'll ge way better
I also switched to a wheel because my fingers became painful. But I was just as fast with a gamepad, won some league races with and was always competitive. If you have precise fingers a gamepad is no real dissadvantage.
I switched to a Wheel and never looked back, I'm faster with a wheel than I ever was with a controller, I guess it differs from person to person.
i haven't watched the whole video, but something to consider is that in some games like GT5 and GT6 it's not physically possible to turn the in-game wheel as much with a controller as it is with a steering wheel, which means there will be more understeer using a controller than with a steering wheel in this case. of course steering wheel helps with being smooth and precise, but in some cases the controller/steering wheel behave differently, and the limit of what is possible to achieve with a controller/wheel is different, because some things u can do with 1 of them are not possible with the other
I used to compete in iRacing with a 360 controller when I started out sim racing, and mostly finished in top 10. :)
Did this try between a wheel and controller about a month ago in both AC, Raceroom, pCars2 and Dirt Rally, and was between 2 an 9 sec off with a controller. But only did a flying lap to set a time with both, so with more practice I would surely close that gap.
The biggest difference is that it's easier to be smoth and precise with a wheel.
The trick is to use a Dualshock 3. Xbone and PS4 controllers have such short throws for the sticks that it makes is difficult to extract any sort of useful granularity from them.
Gamepad on AC is like Paul driving for the first time
“SMALL CORRECTIONS SMALLLL CORRRECTIONNNS”
When the Dirt Rally early access started was about the time I got into PC Sim Racing. That game motivated me to get on the FFB money train. Once upon a time, I was pretty competent with a clicker, consistent world top 50 or better in the Forza games but after a few years using a wheel I am useless with a clicker. I may as well be looking out the window and mashing buttons for all the good I can do with one, so well done good sir, well done indeed. I will say a clicker in the right hands can be a useful tool, a friend of mine raced in iRacing with a clicker and managed to piss off a lot of drivers with wheels - he's a Scot and took great pride in mocking those slower than him at every opportunity. I have someone on my friends' list who races with a keyboard and is devastatingly fast, I'm no Sim Rig Fangio but I'm not slow either and more often than not when scrolling thru lap/stage friend's times there is Mr Keyboard seconds faster than I - and many, many others could hope to be.
I guess what I'm saying is "Is A Steering Wheel Faster Than A Gamepad?" is a lot more nuanced and subjective than one skilled Englishman with one car, on one track, in one Sim. It would be entertaining/amusing to see how it'd turn out with you using the same format on Dirt Rally or RBR tho I do believe the latter would leave you with a GamerMuscle inspired hairstyle. Or even add VR into the mix, that is a video I would definitely like to see.
I played AC with a gamepad for 6 to 8 mounts before buying a wheel and I had the same lap times for a long period actually.
In the end, a wheel gives you force feedback, immersion and a lot more precision at high speed.
Seeing the pedal input is really cool, it will be nice to keep it for future videos aswell.
With a pad if there's a linearity setting ur good it's like putting on smooth as f mode on and u'll get really accurate steering.
Just got a wheel after a few months of gamepad. Didn't improve my lap times as much as I hoped, but it seems easier to keep control and not send the car in a spin with the smoother inputs of the wheel.
I really wish I had a wheel. I bought this and ACC on Steam, and they're so difficult on a controller. Maybe someday soon I'll start a rig and I'll be able to properly play these games.
I raced on a pad for like 10 years until about 2017. Then I didn't play anything for about 2 years. Bought a wheel setup in 2019, and in games that I used to play, I was so much quicker on the wheel.
For me personally, it's way more fun, smoother, and I'm so much quicker on a wheel. But I know that for some arcade-ish games like GT Sport and the F1 games, some of the quickest guys play with a pad.
The problem with a pad for me isn't the steering. I find that easy on a pad. It's the gas and brake modulation that I always had a problem with. Can't feel when gaining or losing grip so well with a pad.
I always love your videos but what i really love is how someone so funny and cool can be suck a badass...you're a great driver cheers m8
I would reckon that the wheel is better for steering but only minorly. More determinant by the person controlling.
Even though the thumbstick still offers some ability to adjust the sharpness of your cornering, finding the sweetspot within a millimeter of error is a tough discipline; whearas with a wheel you can put your whole arm into the motion with much less fear of over or undershooting the degree that you wish to turn at. Much like the advantage of aiming with a mouse instead of a thumbstick in first person shooters.
Often I find more control on a thumbstick if I rhythmically flick it between max and neutral to gradient the rate at which my tires return to their neutral positioning as I'm leaving a corner. Extremely similar to the principles of WASD driving on an analog keyboard. I've been using both controller and keyboard since as young as I can remember and my abilities allow me to achieve similar times with either despite what I may have otherwise predicted. I would like to see how my racing skills measure up with a wheel these days but unfortunately all I have is a real car.
Even though I'm a biker rather than a car driver I still can use gamepad buttons as a clutch. I just can't use the same finesse for any control inputs on a pad that I would use for driving in real life. For anyone who can actually drive a gamepad just won't do the trick, it'll never feel like driving therefore making it harder to predict what the car will do.
My experience, having raced plenty on both wheel and game pad, is that the wheel is faster. You can put in more steering angle, make faster adjustments and it's easier to be smooth both with steering input and throttle control. I'd say i'm about half a second faster with the wheel on average (on Gran Turismo games that is).
Thanks Jimmy as always mate. A question i had been given by a friend and i was curious. Love your work mate! love from aus :)
What helps with smooth input is using the arches of the joystick spots to guide steering and not yanking to full lock
It's possible to drive well and be competitive on a gamepad. A gamepad is fine if you can't afford a wheel or don't have space for one. I've been playing Assetto Corsa with a pad for two years now. I drive without assists, only use factory assists on road cars but with TC always off. In F1 cars, all assists off. It takes some time getting used to and smoothen your inputs. But it can get tiring by holding the thing in your hands while sitting uncomfortably and this is coming from a person who once drove 800 km in an F1 car on a single practice session at Spa. I would assume a wheel is more comfortable to use because you can slightly lean back a little. In the end though, a wheel is the more precise option.
This debate ( IMO) is similar to the kb&m vs controller is in shooters. You can be just as good with a gamepad as a mouse but i think the learning curve is different. You have a lot more range of input on a mouse with a mouse pad squared area vs a few degrees difference on controller being the slightest thumb movement.
Its like trying to write with a normal pencil vs a 1” one. You can be as good with both but the smaller one is harder to be as accurate smoothly and comfortably
Excelent video! Now I'm going to:
1. Save up for a decent wheel-pedals-H shifter setup.
2. Until then fiddling with the controller setup which I was never done before.
Thanks!
And You got skills, Sir! I liked the part when You have been commenting your own driving. 👍🏻
Cool I was very interested to see this video by you. Due to my lack of a permanent racing rig setup, I split my racing time about 50/50 between the wheel and gamepad. I find myself to be plenty fast with the gamepad indeed, but yeah keeping it smooth and clean diverts way too much concentration away from the actual driving experience for it to be properly enjoyable (in AC anyway). I'll give your suggested settings a shot; thanks for that!
I was gamepad forever with driving games, putting up with sweaty hands and hand cramps with the gamepad. But once I went to a driving wheel, lap times were close to the same, but on an overall time of a race. Way more faster. The only time I use a gamepad is for motocross and motorcycle racing games.
My utter zen on a gamepad was on Gran Turismo 2 with the dual shock. I used one stick for steering the other for throttle / brake. Pure gamepad nirvana! Many an hour of endurance race was fought on that.
Bit of a necropost but I've been stuck with a gamepad for the last few months and I find using the left stick like a wheel (ie holding it forwards to go straight and rolling it around the edges to steer) works a lot better for minimising the twitchiness. The speed sensitivity settings are extremely important though, I'm yet to get it to feel as good in project cars 2 as I have done in Assetto corsa.
Love you’re enthusiasm and you looked wonderfully smooth behind the wheel
I think pad is a good option for shorter races or just flying laps, but it gets difficult to manage tyres because of how much you end up sliding or locking wheels. I mean, I find it easier to block wheels or have the rear tyres spin if you're a tiny bit too far with the stick
i use a gamepad at the moment but i also have hair trigger settings set so i can get the progressive braking and acceleration instead of just 0-100 instantly
The speed sensitivity needs to be about 60-70% for that car. Your advanced settings are spot on though. Thanks for another great video.
Back in the day during Papyrus Nascar 4, Indi 500, etc., I used a keyboard. Then I used a joystick. Now a game controller is like a dream. But then I don`t race online so cheats make it fun with adjustable AI, etc. Having read and said this, I am considering a wheel though.
I don't have the money to buy a wheel yet but for my settings on the controler, I put the sensitivity at around 70% with Gamma at 3 and Filter at 97% (which make your driver 100% not look like an idiot when steering) and I can be very smooth this way. For me the biggest difficulty with a controller is that you don't really have clues when you start to oversteer/loose traction and correcting it is very hard.
There's other motorsports where a wheel is much more crucial, like rally and rallycross; mainly cause you need to feel the pull from the cambers, and be able to e-brake or disengage the clutch to take a turn and so on. Since there's not as much as a strict racing line (or no racing line at all for rally), the feedback is way more important and eyeballing turns isn't that viable.
Man that those game pad inputs looked like Philipe Massa in his first season with Sauber ...Wild😂
The thing with me is that I am a guy to tense up if say, I am making good time on a lap or if a race is getting really good. Once you tense up, your fingers aren't as smooth. But your arms generally are, and the tiny minute movements my fingers make won't have as much of an impact, if at all, on the wheel.
Also, I am able to feel the car more on the wheel. I know what it needs, wants out of me, and I can push harder on the wheel. The gamepad changes it so I am not pushing as hard as I know I can and it gets frustrating when it costs you a race. Or that tenth of a second you know you can squeeze out but just can't quite take turn 6 just right.
For me, personally, I squeeze out another second or so out of the wheel