Galveston Naval Park - The Dichotomy of Submarine and Sub-Hunter
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- čas přidán 21. 05. 2024
- Today we take a look at the history behind one half of the main exhibits at this small but mighty museum, and the other half sank the carrier Shokaku!
Visit them here: www.galvestonnavalmuseum.com/
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Pinned post for Q&A :)
Trying to deploy submarines against carriers generally ended in failure due to the speed difference, as the Japanese found out the hard way with their flawed submarine doctrine. So what went into pre-positioning American submarines in the paths of much faster Japanese capital ship forces?
Is there any record of a hedgehog being fired at a surfaced submarine, and would this have been effective?
In a recent video Ryan (from USS New Jersey) listed museum ships that had recently been drydocked and I noticed that none of them were subs. Can you discuss the differences between drydocking a surface ship versus a submarine and what that might mean for museum subs?
despite being completely banned from them in the Treaty of Verssailles, German naval development in regards to Submarine tech seemed to be almost completely unaffected, in stark contrast to their knowledge on how to design surface warships which seemed to outright regresss despite still being allowed to build and operate surface ships, why is this?
I have a pair of semi-related questions on battlecruiser doctrine
1) How comparable were age of sail frigates to battlecruisers in terms of the role they filled in a fleet
2) Given their design idea of being able to outfight everything they can't outrun and outrun everything they can't outfight, and hope that Hood and the Renowns aren't around, would it be fair to characterize the Deutschlands as the world's crappiest battlecruisers?
My father served in USS Stewart's sister ship, USS Trumpeter. Walking around Stewart with him triggered many memories he'd never told me before!
You can thank yours truly for getting the 3 inch main guns to both traverse and elevate through their arcs. I visited in summer 2020 at the height of covid, and made a friend in the fella who ran the museum. over the next two weeks, we got many things functional. the radio on the Cavalla, cavalla's periscope to traverse, and the main guns on the Stewart to traverse and elevate. it was fun! also got the transmissions on the Cavalla to... gurgle. was working on cleaning the big brass levers in the aft section of the engine room, when I inadvertently moved one into another position. a loud gurgling reverberated about the engine room, clearly some ancient hydraulic fluid or gear oil was loosed from it's decades old home and transferred to another place. I turned to my buddy who ran the place, and asked him jokingly "are we diving?" that was neat. I slept in the aft crew berthing on the cavalla a couple nights too. place is for sure haunted. had many alarms go off, the main klaxon and the red low intensity lights flicker. heard plenty of whispering. it didn't help that below the main deck in the battery storage area, there were 50 odd child-sized mannequins from the 60s that may or may not have been moving around.
lol old and unkept army of child-sized mannequins on a WWII submarine almost sounds like a cliche horror-movie scene.
That is really cool. Spooky for sure but cool. You got to hang out and work on stuff.
Doll locker still exists, matter fact- one of them moved to beneath the hatch in crew berthing. Cavallas periscope does not traverse unfortunately.
@@bengarcia9612 well, that's a shame. I'm not real surprised though, we didn't have the seals to replace the old cracking ones and black silicone caulking will only last so long in the tropical Texas sun. it's been over 4 years, I bet water got in and rusted the fittings stuck against the bearings again.
good to know the kids are still moving around down there. man that was friggin creepy. never got creeped out alone in the crew berthing, I'd get up and go to the forward head to take a leak and pass the captain's cabin, stuff would get moved around in there a lot. I kept the red lights on all night for that reason. the stewart was worse though, whatever was there really didn't like people. I got choked out by something while climbing a ladder in the engine room. felt some icy hands around my neck and squeeze. stopped as soon as I left. felt like I wasn't wanted, hated almost. never felt like that on the cavalla, felt welcome and respected... so long as I steered clear of the "doll locker" as you so eloquently put it.
Given that Cavalla took down one of THE all-time capital ships, it’s very fortunate that she didn’t join Enterprise and Washington on the list of ships that deserved saving for their actions but weren’t.
Enterprise's crew celebrated when they found out Shokaku was sunk.
@@ph89787wouldn't it be odd if they hadn't? In the middle of a war where carriers had definitely shown what a threat they were? Or am I missing something?
Speaking as an American, absolutely. Speaking as a British citizen also, I'm just going to go cry in the corner.
@@jameshealy4594 for Enterprise’s crew it was personal as they had fought Shokaku and Zuikaku twice at Eastern Solomons and Santa Cruz back in 1942.
And USS West Virginia, actions surviving Pearl Harbor and the primary hitter sinking Yamashiro.
Was just there a couple months back. Lovely museum, but a word of caution: the Cavalla is not meant for tall people. Every tour should be a hard hat tour if you’re 6’5”.
On a funny note, because of my job I'm required to carry certain things on me at all times. At one point in Cavalla I became physically wedged inside a hatchway. That was amusing and slightly embarrassing.
@@admiraltiberius1989😳
@@admiraltiberius1989 The only way I could get through the hatches was to sit down on the coaming, throw my legs over, and haul myself up on the other side. Dignity was something that happened to other people on that day.
I had a similar experience on the growler. I'm tall and on the chubbier side. Those hatchways are not designed for me lmao
Same for me on the Slater! Trying to chip and paint the K-guns. Was saved by our demure female voluteers!
That is a cool park having been there. Now that Texas will love nearby as well, they hopefully will get more people to come through and help them with upkeep. Cavalla is in great condition, but Stewart needed a little bit of love. "Please do not touch the switches, this is a war machine, not a toy"
Love it. True act of love to keep the treasure of the past alive. Hats off.
I appreciate your attention to the "little ships", the destroyers, corvettes and DEs that were so important to the preserving th seal lines of communication. By the way, in 1957 Hollywood did a good movie; "The Enemy Below" (made from a British novel if I recall correctly). The movie pits a US DE versus a German U-Boat in the South Atlantic. The movie used an actual DE (filmed near Hawaii) and has a great deal of good footage of life and action aboard a DE that is similar to Stewart (although steam-driven). Further trivia, the plot of "The Enemy Below" was adapyed to an episode of the original Star Trek series.
Ah, with the Romulan warbird, that's a good episode.
My grandfather was Captain on 2 different DEs during the war: Hopping and Williams. 40 years ago I actually held a copy of the blueprints for the Williams. Unfortunately flood damage ruined them.
Your comments about the location of CIC were interesting. I served on a couple of Knox class DEs (frigates) and a Perry class frigate from the 197d and 80s. CIC was in essential the same location. Even less protection since the superstructures were aluminum to save weight.
During my US Coast Guard career, beginning in the late 1970’s, I was stationed on several ‘vintage’ ships that predated WW2, when we visited the Stuart I was amazed at the rough, cheap construction of that vessel. Being a surface sailor with broad shoulders Cavalla was very claustrophobic, possible more so than a B-17 I crawled through at an air show.
Good to see the museum have fixed their confusion between Drach and Dr Clarke.
On the other hand, they did reveal Drach’s true name. Not sure he was thrilled about that.
@@CAP198462yes I saw that too. He gave so many clues I figured it out years ago but didn’t want to dox him. Anything can be figured out on the internet though.
@@CAP198462 well he has linked to the video here. Mustn’t be too annoyed.
Not hard to tell the difference: If he's climbing the mast, he ain't Drach. 😁
Awesome coverage! I volunteered on the ship for a couple of months chipping rust/painting on the Stewart and cleaning the Cavalla, was worth the hour drive and the museum coordinator was cool and passionate about preservation
(He fabricated the depth charge racks on the Stewart last time I was there!)
P.S the Shōkaku did not see it coming! What a badass crew!
I went to Texas A&M at Galveston which is also on Pelcan Island which is where the museum. When I was younger, we went there as a family and my father who was a sub captain during the cold war gave us a tour. One of his first words was don't turn the valves.
I want to thank you for these visual tours as they bring back my memories of my naval service and duty on a survivor of WW2. Todays sailors have no idea of how my father and his generation lived in these small but feisty ships with their cramped spaces and analog systems. Great tour and I look forward to your visit to U 505, one of my favorite memories of Chicago.
This is a great park and Naval Museum, been here 5 or 6 times and enjoy it every time.
Wow, thank you for visiting my home-town's little museum ships. They're my first. I visited them when I was about 10 years old and it cemented my love of warships. I've visited almost every warship in America and the HMS Belfast in England.
That might be a reason visit London.
I admire your accomplishment!
My absolute favourite ship from WWII
I just love them!
They were so plentiful and did so much to protect the convoys/ and destroy enemy submarines.
Not accounting for that great Robert Mitchum movie 'The Enemy Below' which I must have watched 20 times from my first time in my local small-town movie theatre, as a kid to on the internet as an old man.
Love your work/ you put so much labour of love into all that you do.
Thank You, Sir.
Used to live in Houston. Going to Galveston’s frankly disgusting beaches brings back memories.
Most disappointing place I've ever been, no idea what that Denver chap was on about?
Galveston has cleaned up much in the last 5 years. Lot of investment going in. USS Texas is going to be docked there soon as well.
@@Ojref1 really? That’s after hurricane Harvey right? It’s been a while since I’ve been to Galveston
Never been there....lots of trash?
@@extragoogleaccount6061 not exactly. The water around that area can be pretty terrible. There’s this problem of some sort of coralish seeweed (I dunno what it was) that can get up to three feet high along the entire beach. And every time there’s an oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico dead fish pile up on the beach.
I've been there. A note on Cavala. If you are just the tiniest bit claustrophobic, avoid the sub. It's tiny and the water tight compartments are a pain to move through.
Had the good fortune to visit the last DE afloat, USS Slater up in Albany NY, she is easy to miss but to anyone in that area she is remarkably well cared for and well worth the visit!
Holy moly, this is pretty close to me! Ive gotta go check this out, thanks for the video!!
40:45 There are actually 6 DE's still in existence. The two here in the U.S., one in Vietnam, Thailand, Brazil, and Colombia. There was a 7th until recently in Philippines, but she rolled over and sank at her moorings after a typhoon and is being scrapped in place.
Fortunately, there is a 5"/38 armed DE still around, the ex-USS Ruchamkin in Colombia. She's a Rudderow in an APD fit, but she still has her bow Mk 30 Mod 75 gun mount in place.
28:42 That spot was actually where the director tub for the aft Mk 51 director for the quad 40mm was. It isn't clear exactly when, who, or why it was done, but the tub was cut off at some point while she was a museum ship and the director was taken too. The torpedo tubes were mounted about ~30 feet further forward. You can still see a slightly raised circular ridge in the deck aft of the funnel where the torpedo tubes were mounted. When I toured Stewart for my research paper, the guides weren't aware of that and had been telling guests what you mentioned.
Most likely 5. The Vietnamese destroyer escort hasn't been seen since 1999 based on our records.
@@USSSlaterThank you for the correction!
Thanks for this. I appreciate you visiting museums that I shall probably never get to. Thanks again.
Really great you are documenting these museums
My mom took my brother and I here when we were kids and it’s good to see that they still look great!
I like the guy at 25:00 who just hangs out periodically looking up at the funnel
I spent the length of an ESTA there a while ago. I saw the San Jacinto museum (and USS Texas, buy accident), the Galveston railway museum (and hot stalked by their cat), lots of nature reserves, The Alamo (with a surprisingly anti-gay street preacher), the Johnson Space Centre, the Galveston Aviation Museum, a sunk concrete ship in the harbour (but no dolphins), the natural history museum a HEMA club and a BJJ club, but managed to miss Seawolf Park.
“Dichotomy of subs and sub hunting”. Don’t give Anakin the idea for another thesis….
I see you are a man of culture as well.
Used to visit that park as a kid, and in turn would take my kids there. Always a great time
I've been there a few times over the years. Last time was just a few months ago when i took my dad to see it while he was here visiting. He had a great time. It has been, and continues to be one of the best gems out there for all of us WW2 naval nerds. The exhibits, facilities and employees are always top drawer. Yes it is a small park, but doesnt that fit with the idea of a museum about warcraft this small? You can find yourself talking with an actual bubblehead giving a tour... or chattin with the carpenter who built the shed. I can't recommend this place enough. And now that the USS Texas is around the bend a few miles, and the USS Lexington is a couple of hours away? Makes one hell of a long weekend trip.
Thank you to the staff, and thank you Drach for another great video.
Terrific thanks!!
I'll be heading there next month!
Great tour. This museum has the sail of my first submarine, the USS Tautog, SSN 639. I can see you had a lot of fun. Thanks for the great videos.
Oh Cool I just visited U505 last year! Can't wait for the video!
another great video drac informative and very enjoyable all the best
My grandfather served on the USS Joyce, another Edsall class DE. Nice to see the DEs get some attention
One of my favorite places to visit. It's truly a hidden gem and well worth it.
And technically Drach, one 5inch DE does still exist. Its just extremely difficult to access.
Great job, Drach! Thank you!!
Thank you for the tour. I want to go see both Stewart and Cavalla, but going to Galveston on a Holiday weekend usually ends in traffic jams and no available parking. That goes double for Memoral Day weekend which also kicks off the summer vacation period for beach goers since public school will be out for almost three months.
Ah, You were on the platform by the ship and red cars when you did the Galveston video! Cool!
Wow. Is it coincidence that you mention during your video friendly fire on submarines and you’re in Seawolf Park named after USS Seawolf that was brought down by friendly fire during the war.
Another excellent review, Drach! As residents of Peoria, IL, perhaps we'll run up and see you in Chicago with U505, one of our personal favorites!
Thanks, Drach. Quality content.
Good morning from Galveston co....
Lsd32, a Thomaston class originally had 4 x 3/50 twin guns. 1955 vintage. 2 mounts stripped by 1987. Hopefully some are on display around.
Nice. Bolivar ferry video-bomb.
I think there are a couple of those guns at the San Jacinto Monument.
Rear Admiral Herman Kossler was my next-door neighbor in 1960-64, his son my best friend at the time. Wonderful fella to 7 to 10 yr old me.
was there early 90s on xmas vaction - love the sub
Drach in Texas.
I've lived in texas for 30 years and have been to Galveston, and never knew they had a naval museum! 😳
24:30 My man is just chilling out, getting a free history lesson.
Thanks for this. I've been there, but never in the engine room.
I hope you enjoyed the Galveston/Houston area. Two thinks of interest about the two vessels in your episode.
In the early days of WWII there was a 4-piper destroyer of the ABCD Fleet days called "the Stewert." In the last days before the fall of Indonesia Stewert went into drydock for some very necessary work. Butshe fell over in drydock with no time to fix things. explosive charges were set, and personnel evacuated. Unknown to the personnel, the charges did not do the job. During the war, rumors of a familiar shaped vessel circulated, and submariners may not have torpedoed the familiar shape. They were after cargo carriers anyway. So the destroyer escort was given the name. All was good until VJ day when the old Stewert was found. Since in nomenclature niceties you could not have two ships of the same name, they called the old Stewert R.A.M.P.. This stood for recovered Allied Military Property. A short time later they sank her as a target off California.
The cavalla has the distinction of having been at the Sept. 2, 1945 surrender in Tokyo Harbor. This along with a two-week naval reserve posting on U.S.S. Havre PCE 877 made two vessels I have been aboard that were at the surrender. When I was on the Havre, the first men landed on the moon (July 20, 1969). The Havre got scraped in 1970, if memory serves.
Ah, Wednesday night Rum and Raisins!! Yumm!!
Thanks for making this show. When I was down there the sub and the ship were closed. I was able to walk around on the decks of both but that was it.
Drach, what was the total fully loaded depth charge inventory for this type of sub hunter?
Fantastic work! I am impressed at your skill at narrating on the fly! I also see the USS Salem in the distance, hopefully next time you will enjoy more time and battery power to do a quick flyover that historic piece of rock.
The utube channel creation corps has a play list of seven videos on the other DE museum ship the USA slater. Each video covered a different area such as weapons, engines, electronics, mess, communications
I happen to be wearing my USS Cavalla shirt today.
Thanks Drach
I find these small warships even more impressive than the big ones. Each of these ships had to be able to do most of the jobs of the larger ships -- engineering, feeding the crew, navigation -- with smaller less experienced crews.The total effort involved is just mind boggling.
Recommend some light reading: D K Brown's "Atlantic Escorts". This should clear up some of your misunderstandings about ASDIC/Sonar, depthcharges and the patterns they used, and hedgehog.
Also - the 8x 40mm aft arrangement on 3" DEs was a result of the 1945 Kamikaze emergency rearmament. Out of curiosity - there should be 3x Mk51 directors back there somewhere?
I went seen those ships a number of years ago. I had my young son with me at the time and me being 6.5 it was tough to keep up with the wandering child in a ww2 submarine and look at things was rather difficult I've been meaning to go back though.
Went there was a few times as a kid!
I grew up playing on the Stewart back before they cut off all the ladders and she was still covered in guns. The offices still had papers in them, and you could climb as high as you had the guts to. After hurricane Alicia it started getting more secure and less lawsuit friendly.
I wasn't a Fleet Sailor in my time in the USNR, you are so studied and instructive on the legacy and tradition of the Naval Service, ok carry on ...
Nice ship and nice Video.
Thanks in advance for the U-505 video. I’ve been up to Chi-town a few times and planned to go see it but while on paper there was time, in reality there never was.
Ok i could see myself being the guy standing next to the funnel listening to Drach.
I'm glad she has a dry berth. Thanks for the video.
I almost went there for a week to help with refurbishment of Stewart and Cavella and I might go next time they set this up again.
I've been to this Museum and it's a great museum, unfortunately I went a day before a storm rolled in so the weather wasn't the greatest.
My wife and I went last Monday, two days before the bridge was hit by a barge and partially collapsed.
Galveston + museum ship=hard mode.
Hurricanes?
Extreme humidity and salt air. I've seen used cars and trucks from Galveston car dealers. Every hidden crevice was rusty.
What a super idea to 'strand' these vessels by constructing new ground around them to their waterlines - very practical, looks great, and there's no risk of them sinking at their moorings with an attendant salvage cost, so no unhappy Harbourmasters! Why on earth haven't we used the idea in the UK? (Britannia....Bronnington....Plymouth....)
Went there on our honeymoon. Was the weekend before Memorial Day. Great weekend to have done that. Just us and the tour guide. Many years ago and we still talk about it. Got to sit in the seats in the Maneuvering Room. Oddly, that space really made me appreciate what those guys did. Stare at dials and do what you're told as best you can and trust the team and the Petty Officers and the Commissioned Officers.
Nice!
I was on the Salem last year !
I was down there last weekend. They repainted Stewart in Measure 32 Design 22D recently in honor of USS Samuel B. Roberts, so that was pretty neat to see.
Did you get to the Admiral Nimitz museum? Also recommend the WW2 Museum in New Orleans.
I wish more historic ships could be moved to dry land like these two. Its sad to see so many of them slowly rust away tied to a pier.
Never heard of this museum. :)
very sureal to see you stand somewhere i took a picture everytime i visited growing up.(by the forward 3 inch gun)
Having read only one book about US ship production in WWII, I feel like the idea the US could have produced more is a bit silly. When we see how short the production times were even if the workers could've gone faster the materials and parts wouldn't have arrived as fast as the ships were being built. They built more than enough to win in both the Atlantic and the Pacific. At some point those war materials were better off in aircraft and tanks.
On a serious note, the shot at 46:20, I thought: turn off all the lights, tip it upside-down, and try to find your way out. Scary thought.
That "more or less" in the outro is doing a lot of work there.
Live the museum ships.
Went to Hawaii in Dec/Jan and had the privilege of standing on her deck where the Japanese surrendered.
Couldn’t get a ticket to the Arizona but I’ve been to her in the early 80’s.
And in 1981 I stood at ground zero in Hiroshima.
The trifecta I call it
So basically, the starboard shaft was longer than the port side shaft is what I learned from you along with this small ship class have 4 engine rooms and not just 2 which was amazing to learn. My only peeve was that you didn't show the berthing & head areas, galley & mess deck, wardroom and OC quarters.
I live in Galveston!!
I met a very friendly kitty cat onboard Stewart back in January. I went to the ticket office to ask what the cat's name was only to find out this sweet baby was a stray that was most definitely not supposed to be on the ship. Friendly girl though, I hope she found a good home
I hope they let it stay, every ship needs a ship's cat.
For the algorithm!
Amazing how much stuff they had to cram inside these ships. And how fast they built them. 3 years to build it today, lol
Yay!!!!
A friend of mine was exec on Cavalla in the late 1950s. His CO was a guy named John Pierpont Morgan IV
Tge people here are great stewards. Knowledgable and friendly.
Could you cover ships that were active during WW2 but never actually saw combat are fired their weapons at an enemy vessel.
i am still surprised on how much naval history the us have as from all periods from age of sails to ww2
If you're able, when in Chicago visiting the U-505, you should drive to the southern end of Indiana to visit the only surviving LST in the world. It's a museum in Evansville. If you don't have a car I'm sure one of your many subscribers would offer to chauffeur.
Hi Drach, are you willing to create a video/videos covering the evolution of radio with respect to the time-frame the channel covers? Obviously this is a complex topic. Possible one video showcasing the highlights or multiple videos covering different time-frames e.g. WW1, Inter-war, WW2?
Was just there 2 months ago. When I was there they were painting the destroyer