Can You Beat Grandmasters Without Building Supply Depots?
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- čas přidán 11. 09. 2024
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Just play zerg. No supply depots required.
big brain 🧠
😂😂😂
protoss doesn’t build depots either 😮
SUPPLY DEPOTS INSUFFICIENT, OVERLORDS SUPERIOR
Zerg with only 2 overlords
Almost lost the challenge at 7:48 when you started a supply depot before he surrendered.
I noticed that too😂
he said that if he doesn't benefit from it it's fine and he wouldn't have benefit from it :)
He did say he would destroy it if he built one. He just cant have units supplied by more than 1 supply depo.
uThermal: "Come on, let me hear you say it... just once."
Adjutant: "You're insane."
uThermal: "No! Pfft, hahaa, no, the other thing."
Adjutant: "Additional supply depots requi-"
uThermal: "WRONG!"
Imagine getting destroyed by Uthermal with a pretty standard cyclone attack and having to guess the challenge being only having build 1 depot after Marc cancelled his second depot. Who would ever guess that in a million years XD
Hahahaha yeah I ruined that guys career on accident, my bad
That’s just thermals genius faking a second depot to make the challenge harder
@wezelkonijn it's definitely easier to guess if you survive longer and scout somehow. If you die to the all in and don't scout you've got very little chance, unless despite dieing to the all in you can recognize tiny differences in unit counts and timings. Idk Terran builds, but I assume even with a standard cyclone attack, he'll have to build a 3rd or 4th cc earlier than normal which would have some effect on something
Like I have to assume with any all in the reinforcements are later, or he has significantly fewer scvs. If you don't scout his scvs though, I suppose it could be almost impossible to tell. But tbh, when I heard the price was guessing, it seemed like having a build with good scouting was important, more even than winning. As a toss, that means defensive play with sentry, or Stargate for oracle, or something like that
I think 4 gate for safety with a battery and a few sentries would be smart.
If he all ins that's the best shot at surviving, and if not hopefully you get a hallucination across the map.
If he macros (ex never attack challenge), technically the prize is guessing what he's doing, so you could just continue to scout and play defensive (and probably loose eventually) if you're optimizing for prize money
next time disable the build depot hotkey. You're forced to click-select the first one but after that it will prevent you from auto-piloting
There's a challenge, no building hotkeys.
@@Elvenbane1520 that's been done. I cant remember if it was Beastyqt, Marc, or someone else but I think it went by a different name like "gold macro" or something.
@@ja3482 czcams.com/video/-LbJKC9R0cU/video.html StarCraft 2: Mouse ONLY to Masters!
@@ivanbessarabov690There it is! thank you
Only works if you aren't playing grid.
My game is a perfect example of letting nerves get to you. Instead of maybe an early tank or bunkers and a planetary, I went for stim and shields for my 2 marines, because my muscle memory tells me that stim and shields = big damage.
I definetly dont feel bad about it now that I know what happened. Getting beat with 0 recourses lost is pretty funny.
Beaten. I refuse to let you reduce the little ammount of conjugation english has left.
@@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714
1. didnt ask
2. its not even incorrect
@@raglock1433 1. Then you should rejoice over being corrected without even having to ask.
2. Yes it is incorrect. Someone beat you, you where beaten by someone, is how its done.
@@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714 that sentence doesnt have to be past tense. So your correction is just wrong.
@@raglock1433 Beaten can be used for past present and future...
"supply depo's required" and marc took that personally
Yes you should give the money to the first GM. Great vid man
48:03 I think the second guess deserves at least half reward, IF it was said before you told him no to his first guess 😊😊
I got an idea for a new challenge. It's called: Build what you killed.
Explanation: You can choose 5 units you start with. But after that, you are only be allowed to build units which you already killed (for example you killed with your first 5 reapers an marine, than you are allowed to build marines too). Of course, this works only in mirror matchups. This challenge will force that you kill the opponent with the same units he plays, so you have to play with better unit compositions and better micro. The fun part, you can't play any units the other never plays or which you can't kill with your existing units.
I ready don't know if this works out, but if, it could be only done by you.
this challenge is some what weird consider if you ahve a large army, and they switch tech, you then will need to kill off your army just to match them?
@@havel6060 I read the challenge differently. I thought he meant that you "unlocked" units by killing opponent's ones. You can play anything that you've unlocked so far that game. Imagine not being able to build SCVs until you kill one! haha
Actually pretty good idea! I think it could be a great challenge! It tastes a bit like mobile games where you unlock new units in campaign after defeating them. :)
@@EntakarA yes you are rigth entakra, unlocking the units
If you decide which units "match" which, you are not stuck with mirror only. you kill a zergling, unlocks a marine etc.
The most artosis of artosis pylons in that first game
Definitely give the prize for that second guess. He earned it
Yeah the guy who beat you and got it right on the second guess should get a like best guess and best opponent reward imo.
@@alexnordness7025 Guessing on the secondtry without being told the first guess was wrong I believe.
Fantastic challenge! This was extremely interesting and fun. Thanks! One thing that would take these kinds of challenges one level further would be to make a bit more of the prize rewards in your video. We as viewers don't really get to feel very included in that. For example, in this video, I don't know whether the master level guessed right, nor the last grandmaster. I guess they didn't, but... it would be nice to see a little bit of the chat with them maybe, so that we get to see them guess right, or hilariously wrong, and/or to have some sort of prize award ceremony at the end.
Lol... builds a depot the very last second of the first game... and didn't notice. Cracked me up
I vote giving the money to the second guy cos he worked it out just quickly enough. All the other guesses were kinda weak.
yep, especially as he won, he should be allowed two guesses :D
So the Protoss version of this would be...
YOU MUST NOT CONSTRUCT ADDITIONAL PYLONS!
RuFF had a +1 reaper timing attack that might work with this challenge (+1 on reapers is a 25% bump in DPS, or 33% against targets with natural armor, like queens, roaches, or protoss). Normally one doesn't build reactors on rax for reapers, but you need the minerals for the fast CC and eng bay and +1.
41:00 Hahaha that's Tower Defence right there with the zerglings.
Wait, in SC2, you have to have a supply depot to build a barracks? i never knew
Yeah they changed it early in wings of liberty because reaper cheeses were absoutely broken :P
You can but you'll have to expand like a Maniac
Where have you been😂
You legit cant even build the Barracks without a depo lol@@ghoraxe9000
That mass Thor vs SC1-style carriers was pretty fun to watch!
after finishing the video heres what I gotta say based off what ive modified (only low/mid diamond).
1. last game 48:20 this wall off is perfection but you would rather build the CC first before second barracks, then wall with second barracks after kinda like nexus before cyber core.
2. build mass orbital in the main, and try to build your production in your natural, in between your natural/third. This way it makes it easier to defend your difficult position
3. 3rd is always orbital. You wanna make about 5-6 orbitals before your first planetary this way you can abuse the sling shot capability to mass units/upgrades/buildings. Once your 3rd is fortified with tanks, bunkers, units you can build a planetary or two in front of it.
4. Keep massing orbitals this shit is what makes it so broken in my eyes you this stopping at 50-60 is good i think thats nice to get off the ground, but you should go down to like 30-40. You should get to the point where 12-15 OC can replace nearly all your workers + infinite scans this is the main goal.
5. Once this is achieved you build the most disgusting 160-170 supply army you can conjure. you can even kill all your scv's if you have snowballed hard enough and just go 200 supply if you have an ok gas bank. Remember your orbitals can just spam drop mules for repair on your "actual end game army comp" you still have infinite mineral income the only issue is maybe leaving scv's for gas.
This was absolutely incredible to see him win with no depots, when I saw title I didn’t even think that would be possible I was like no way..
Next up: can only issue 1 command per unit (the rally one from the building they're built).
Or, no unit group control AT ALL (have to manually box select with mouse).
I was also gonna suggest playing with the camera zoomed in all the way, but not sure how you'd record that. I guess you could voice-over replay file?
Anyway, cheers, awesome video!
FINALLY THIS IS THE CHALLENGE IVE BEEN ASKING FOR FOR MONTHS. I cannot wait to see what your mind comes up with, with CC's or orbitals as supply. The snowball is so goddamn insane with the multiple scans+mules. But the early game can be tedious and brutal. My personal rule when doing this build was 2 supply depos (Because if you build barracks in main you need 2 to fully wall) but if I built the first depo on the low ground, I would CC first into 2 racks and use a bunker to cover the other side. Highly doubt you'll use any of this but just incase i thought id add. I hope you make more videos on this in the future.
Every time you finish an "illegal" depot, you have to send 10 bucks extra to the right guesser or to charity. And you are not allowed to disable the hotkey for depot. Keep the challenge challenging for S2 sake.
I just really like your aptitude for game, you are always so nice, respectful and a good sport overall, even when you lose or the opponent is salty, you are cheerful and self-reflecting. Cheers to you!
A good thing to do with all those CC's is to create your own PF walls and wall off avenues (place turrets behind too).
Then go Sky-Terran and fly over your own "turret walls" while they have to throw ground units into a meat-grinder vs air superiority. 😁
That first game you put down a supply depot in the last 20 seconds
it never finished though. it was probably just muscle memory lmao
@@ZerglingLovermuscle memory for destorying peoples ego by building more supply after they have already lost
I wonder if this was inspired from a Bronze League Heroes where a guy did a Planetary lift and didn't build a supply depot until about 10 minutes into the game.
Mark, the real thing you could do is to unbind the undesired hotkey. So even if your muscle memory would fail you nothing will be built.
It would be really cool to see you land 8 command centers and turn them into planetaries as part of an all in attack LOL
one overlord zerg sounds terrible, but then I consider one pylon protos 😂
"I have no idea why I lifted these. I pretty much just...uh. pressed the the wrong hotkey I suppose. I can't really imagine anything else."
Some of the random things you say crack me up 😂
6:55 ARTOSIS PYLON!!!!!
7:48 uThermal would have lost if not for this cheat.
Dear Marc,
I want you to deliver us a video called "scv rushing grandmasters to make them feel good about themselves(0:13)".
After smurfing on so many accounts for all these years, I think it's time you gave some MMR back to the community.
Sincerely your biggest fan,
Stan.
Love the videos thanks for sooooooooo many pointers. Keep up the great work brother. I hope one day to get almost as good as you are at rts games💯💯💪💪👏👏
I am so glad you did this, it really makes you think in so many different ways, thank you !
I feel that if you get to the point where you have 186 max supply (like in the third game vs carrier) you can just rebuild your economy normally with scv since you can make 15-20 scv at the same time (no all in needed) and play normally from there. Nice game! Love the extra spice to make the challenger guess your challenge.
I'd like to see this challenge taken to the ladder, it was really fun!
He earned it. He could have guessed everything from "Mass Thors" to "No air unit" but he was technically right for guesses :)
Just an idea popped in my head. 1v1, you spin the wheel, each player gets a very specific challenged like most you do. Who wins wins, BUT if the other person guesses the enemy "debuff" correctly they win. Or something along those lines.
I'd argue that the challenge is nigh impossible as Protoss - will have to finish the fight very fast, to not run out of space for buildings around the single pylon.
Actually, you could use warp prisms to create additional power zones, although it definitely isn't very practical x)
I'd argue that it's actually much more difficult as a Zerg to not use any overlord, as a Hatchery only gives 6 supply, whereas a CC and a Nexus both give 15.
@uThermal i have a challenge for you, win a match against gm, all troops and buildings allowed. But u have to tell ur strategy to your opponent at the start of the game, GL love your vids ❤
You ended the second game with more max supply than your opponent with only 1 depot.
I wanted to suggest this challenge all the time. You should make a series from that. I think you should investigate that further. Maybe not building depots is in the long run even cheaper. Not from the beginning, there you struggle clearly.
The depot auto-pilot is impressive.
challenge idea: megasimcity. you can only build buildings in spots touching existing buildings. ie: can't take your gas unless you first connect your cc to the gas with a barracks or something. every building in each expansion is touching every other building. No flying buildings except for moving ccs to take expansions
idk if it would be challenging enough but it would be funny to see what a clusterfuck it becomes
Its so funny to see how i am struggeling on a low level to get a decent army. But noooo, Marc says yeah lets do it without building suply depots. Hahahaha is so funny and cool to see
18:50 You did it again!
For quick reference in this challenge, you should write down all the supply numbers when building only command centres after the 1st depot & keep them handy, then it's just a quick glance to make sure your supply matches 1 of the numbers. If not, then go looking for the extra depot. That means you won't catch it until it's completely built though.
Also I might have missed it, were the players allowed to watch the replay with full vision before submitting their guesses, or did it have to be only their own vision immediately after the game??
I really like this and would be cool to see it developed a bit more. Perhaps in two directions: develop an actually workable cheese, and develop the best possible macro build order. There have to be some unexplored efficiencies here given that Terran bases give supply, income, defense, and scans.
It really shows how much harder it is for him. In the 1 vs 4 silver players he was beating them with just reapers while here he was struggling to macro. It was hard to think while trying to remember the challenge
Loved this!!!
But can you beat grandmasters with no CC upgrades (orbitals/PF)??
what a cool idea for a challenge.
Never heard of the no supply depot challenge, and yes was immediately thinking of offensive planetaries :) good show!
The Zerg version of this challenge sounds like a nightmare. Each hatchery only gives 6 supply, and there's no real excuse for "well I have to build one overlord". No, you technically do not.
(Protoss you do need to build one pylon, and Terran you need to build one depot).
The only thing I can think of with zerg is maybe you build less queens--you don't need inject larva if you have a million hatcheries. But queens are also very good units so....good luck skipping them.
"I don't have space for command centers anymore" he says about a building that can fly.
When you accidentally made the first bonus depo I laughed
Possible idea for a video, you come up with some challenge or ruleset, and play the games against various skill levels like normal, but you dont tell us the viewers what the gimmick is until the end. You could either do several matches of one gimmick or a different gimmick each match. People guessing in the commets would mean huge algorithm engagement, too!
I wasn't able to celebrate my birthday, but ive been asking for this for a while and you did it on m bday! Bday saved! What a guy!
Pay him! Give that man his money.
Nice video! Do you use camera locations or any other customized key bind?
"im gonna drop the supply right now so I dont ruin the challenge later" *immediately starts to build a second supply*
great video, next challange to guess idea; build and salvage 25-50 bunkers you can use offenesivley but you can not defeat your opponent untill you meet the quota
actually build time of thors is pretty good too 2 thors takes longer than 1 cc, and cost 12 supply while 1 cc rewards 15 supply, i know its pretty cheesey, but mass thor does work well with this if you open up with quick 4oc, and then a 5th cc ( on 4rth base location) for a planatary.
Supply Depot: Blizzard's troll building.
Such a joy to watch!
If your going CC for supply depots, natural as a planetary fortress, if your going more cc, thus having a follow up as orbitals giving you more staving power against early problems. SCVS/ 10 can bunker in cc 5/10. Mules would be essential to power mine and build more cc. Neotsteel super important for the challenge.
+ 15 supply for 400 minerals... lose about 17 supply for the cost and it takes 71 seconds, so in the early game, you do need to power build these early... almost in stages to take advantage, if you can stagger in stages this would allow some interesting relation. Orbitals one mule is about 5 scvs.. so at some point, orbitals have a + value but meh. So you do need 13 new command centers for 200 supply... So... 5200 minerals.. + x for orbital or planetary... Trading out units nad playing aggresivly is hte best approach to this type of build... since it allows you more time... However in this method you can optimally mine better from the fields. 2 to patch... once yo uunleash power mining pretty much madness...
35:36 Next challenge: bore your opponent to GM
"Walling off with my only depo" 🤣
I feel like if they watched the replay they should have gotten it easily. Awesome video as always!
This challenge is exciting to watch!
"I guess going no depots is just broken... NO." 😂😂
Hey Marc, nice vid 😊 a challenge you could do for Zerg is you can only build 1 tech building at each hatch (evo chambers don’t count)
I have an idea for a zerg challenge! "can you beat grandmasters by playing on creep only?". All units must be staying on creep all game, units must be killed while standing on creep only I think it would be interesting to see that and also I think it might help improve creep spread!
Are you mad? Have you ever seen Marc spreading creep?!... He probably will just span worms for it.
What was that last challenge that was heavy into siege tanks? Would love to see something that highlighted those typically more defensive units in fun offensive ways. Transformers only or siege/mine or siege/lib or something
It was fun to watch, the last cheese was maybe not in the spirit of the challenge. I mean, how could he guess anything else, when it didn't get to any macro game? Or at the very least he didn't get attacked or saw anything else than Reapers...
In WoL I reached master legue on EU ladder. But after that I only played campaigns and forgot about the game for 10 years. CZcams recomended Uthermal and i fell for clickbait.
Started playing again, Bronze legue. Everyone seems to play P or T, macro a bit and then A-Move. I play T. lost ALOT of games. feels bad. Then I changed to Uthermal chaos mode (the bronze version) and create chaos. Expand into fast BC, marine run around, defend base with planetary + tanks. No one in low tier can multi task well (including me) so the chaos always works. Now I'm in Silver!
Give the random zerg guy money! He deserved it, even if he didn't guess at first. But I think not 50$ but 25$ (half)
To fight your muscle memory, maybe just switching the hotkey could be an option for further similar challenges?
The depot might only cost 100 to build but it's market value is a million. "Supply and demand"
Dont attack until a certain minute wouldn't mess up a build that much forcing you to build all those command centers
I feel like seeing the 1 supply depot you're allowed makes it nearly impossible to guess the challenge
I was surprised you went for a turtling strategy as my first thought was constant trading units to keep supply low... But does building the early CCs prevent trading from being efficient?
Orbital based economy? A base with 4 orbitals mule mining minerals produces the same minerals/minute as one with 16 SCVs. That is 800 minerals saved, plus 7 depots worth of supply+freed up supply, is 1500 minerals the normal way.
With orbitals it costs 550*4 or 2200: a 700 mineral deficit.
The total build time on the 4 orbitals is 284: on 7 depots it is 210. So not that bad.
Your ability to mass ramp up economy, if you don't cut SCVs, is also ridiculous. But hard to exploit.
And here we have Thermy - the only Terran player trying to fight his addiction to building supply depots.
An idea if you have the patience: You're not allowed to destroy any enemy building until there is a CC/Nexus/Hatchery at every mineral spot.
I love the idea of this, I tried it as a legitimate greedy build quite a few years ago but terran is my worst race and it seemed a bit too hard. I would get supply blocked for so long.
Up next: Can you beat grandmasters without building any units?
We'll get there at some point ;D
Without launching SC2.
You can see his mechanics kick in when he was going from 3 bases to 4 bases in the third game. def hit another gear that his opponent didn't have.
"He has double forge, which is quite scary... I am going to get triple armory."
just left that probe on the tower with ur 2 banshees lol
Do you think you could try a "Siege to GM" challenge where you can only make Liberator and Tanks (and maybe medivacs)?
I am really understand how strong is grandmaster players.
I am 10th grade and my teacher is really cool. Before a week we convinsed him to play with me and my friend. My friend is bronze league(he may be silver level byt i think with his best race wich is terran he is still bronze) and i am high gold league level. My teacher have played tournament in Bulgaria and finished 10th. He was master player.
When we played he havent played the from 5 years and he beated us easily, maybe a little bit strugle with but he destroyed my friend with cheese by the 5 minute mark, my friend had 1 scv.
The second game he played with his weakest race-protoss but he almost had his old skill so he beated us even faster. And he is just master player and uthermal is top 30 grandmaster in the world.
play zerg but do a 'No Queen Injects Allowed' playstyle - only 'regular' larva and no extras
I love UTHERMAL. What great entertainment. Long live SC2
Hey uthermal, love your videos, I gotta say! I downloaded discord just for the opportunity to play with you, but I have no clue how to navigate that thing and how to apply to be in one of your challenges. I would love the opportunity to plays with you.
Best✌🏻
i cant wait Uthermal challenge "i coach my 5years old vs grandmaster"
I find it insulting to assume Thermy would "challenge" himself with mass/only reapers. And these people claim they are fans... smh.
Has there always been a particle effect when gas and minerals are deposited?