Heathcliff ¦ Character Study ¦ Wuthering Heights Guide Ep 7
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- čas přidán 3. 07. 2024
- In this episode of Wuthering Heights: A Reader's Guide, I do a character analysis of Catherine Earnshaw.
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What do you think of Heathcliff? Hero, villain, or something in between?
Heathcliff and Cathy are both wish fulfillments of Emily Bronte, first as an escape from abuse and later as revenge on the abusive society in which she suffered as a child. They start off as sort of twins. (Note: Emily and Branwell were within four days of being "Irish twins," almost born within 12 months of each other. Emily grew up with an animus figure right there in the house. Hmmm.) The pre-pubescent Cathy and Heathcliff understand and support each other completely. (Her real world siblings were a refuge for Emily, but I'm going to guess that she also fantasized about a twin.) "I AM Heathcliff!"-- well, yeah, they are both fantasy versions of Emily Bronte!
But puberty is always a complication, even in a fantasy. On the one hand, the alchemists warned against sleeping with your anima figure, and on the other hand, they might be real half-siblings--the possibility that Heathcliff is Mr. Earnshaw's bastard son is never mentioned in the book, but is ever-present in the reader's mind. So they MUST be separated.
They evolve into dual revenge fantasies. Cathy is EB's fantasy of exerting power within society by manipulating Edgar Linton and, through his wealth, others. Heathcliff's power is from outside society, and he returns to destroy it. At some point, the adolescent revenge fantasy of a genius became a novel, and I suspect EB's characters started making their own decisions and taking their own actions. Whether or not the two of them ever have a physical relationship--another mystery--their closeness leads to the disaster that the alchemists warned about.
I think just a person who had a very hard childhood and has been treated so unwell that finally is blinded by hatred and revenge.
Something in between
I don't necessarily think abuse comes from one place, it can be from your environment or societal norms not to oversimplify it, but Hindley for example from the outset detests Heathcliff. Why exactly isn't clear. Did Heathcliff represent an adversary to him or was he just not considered an equal to Hindley being that he was different. It is a difficult topic but I ask why was he so evil towards his adopted brother. What environment or society would make it alright throughout the novel Hindley treats Heathcliff like a wild animal and so guess what that is what he becomes. The only time Heathcliff isn't treated like an animal is when he is out and about with Cathy, free from grueling work and there also is some closeness with Nelly and Joseph so you can't really say that he was abused by everyone. I feel Hindley somehow got away with it and honestly what was he so worried about. His greatest fear came true. It is not like he was going to starve or be denied an education or something because of this orphan. There was some seed planted inside him that made it alright for Hindley to see Heathcliff as an obstacle or a easy target which can come from his view of the world and his place in the world and that was to demean Heathcliff and elevate himself to a place where he felt more comfortable and socially normalized being the son. When I read the novel I try to see what motivates each character and why they behave in ways they do or not do. Not just seeing the outcome but the process. People don't think that this novel is normal but I think people would be surprised at how families are in reality and it is probably not too far off. If anything Emily was writing about a profound understanding of how she saw the world from birth to death. Even the death of her mother, how she died and why she died so young must have been something she thought about a lot and wondered what kind of world she lived in that was undergoing some extreme changes and yet people could still die so young and live in such cruelty.
I know i'm late to the party, but i kind of feel Emily tabbed into her inner literary naturalism. I know that movement came way later, but like, 1. It was raw and "real" and most characters were "unlikable" or indifferently described when they did bad choices or evil deeds. Like Heathcliff. 2. Naturalism is a sort of polar opposite to romanticism, and while the novel "seemed" to be a romantic novel, it ended up very realistic, sad and almost uncomfortably filterless at times. (For its times at least) 3. Naturalism kinda stems from positivism. And in the novel, it was almost as if Heathcliff was predestined to become revengeful and heartbreaking, especially considering how he was treated as young and never knew how to control his feelings, which as this act was predestined to become his own doom as well. And once he died then, well.. that's that. All is well. Everyones happy again. Cycle of toxicity is gone. Because it was meant to be that way.
In those words, that also makes Heathcliff neither a Hero nor a Villian. Just a man. A man with issues and complexity that would end up becoming his doom eventually.
Idk.. i might been taking a far left turn, but even though she was 100 years earlier than the naturalism movement, i cant help but to catch similarities.
Who knows, maybe Zola & Co secretly got inspired by Emily 😄
I'm probably just reaching right now.
I don't think Heathcliff is a hero or a villain, just a mistreated, vengeful man. Hes kind of like Frankenstein's Monster in how his upbringing causes him to grow up to be destructive and is passionate for love but craves it in an unhealthy way.
He's a pure villain. He slaughters puppies for kicks.
@@snicker576 yeah, it’s hard to romanticize a puppy murderer.
@@PlanetCharnBaby people somehow find a way. Probably the same people attracted to serial killers
Catherine is a piece of work herself!
I wholeheartedly agree with all the points you raised on Heathcliff. in Bronte's world, the importance of nurturing a child, of giving them love in spite of the circumstances, of educating them properly, comes to the forefront. and in Heathcliff and Catherine, what we have is people who've never been given any of those things by those around them. the only place they've known love is with each other, and when Catherine is taken in, this seals her away from Heathcliff forever. what bound them together can now only be consummated in death, so to speak. which is terribly sad, of course, but so symbolic and beautiful in it's own way. it emphasizes, to me, the inescapable cruelty of their surroundings, tangible and intangible.
I've never read Wuthering Heights as a romance. to me, it's always been a glimpse into the impact human cruelty can have on people, to the point that not even love can fix things. I've never viewed Heathcliff as a villain; much like you said, he's always struck me as a tragic figure. while Catherine managed to escape on some level, Heathcliff did not, and so the proverbial hells they shared at points twisted him out of shape.
thank you for yet another excellent video!! your channel is a true delight.
Yeah I completely agree, thanks for your comment!. The only thing I would add really is that Wuthering Heights also has this big theme of forgiveness. In that things always turn out badly for the characters who are unable to forgive each other for the harm that they have done.
Hey! I'm currently reading the "Wuthering heights". I've just ended the chapter where Lockwood after visiting Heathcliff's house finally appeared in Thrushcross Grange. And actually I realize that's occured to be a bit hard to latch to the point who is who in the Earnshow/Hidley family. Maybe wouldn't you mind to help me with dispelling the darkness inside of that slightly complexed pattern of family ties?
I’m not so sure Cathy escaped..
Why was Catherine not loved? Her mom did, right?
Or did she just love Hindley?
I think it’s really interesting that Brontë understood and depicted the cycles of abuse so well in her novel. Heathcliffe is a very realistic character. I think most abused children that know they are abused, will reject it and want to be nothing like their abusers, but the cycle of abuse is difficult to escape. Despite understanding how it feels to be treated with contempt and hatred, thanks to Joseph, Hindley, and Francis(not too mention whatever upbringing he had before being found by Mr. Earnshaw), he still treats his own son the same way he was treated. Though at first he tries not to, he can’t help but to resort to the same hateful violence that was given to him. I think his relationship with Hereton is one of the most interesting. He sees a lot of himself in the boy because despite being Hindley’s blood and someone he should have loved, he was still treated just as poorly by him(if not worse) as Heathcliffe was. Heathcliffe is conflicted between seeing Hereton as a younger version of himself, or an extension of Hindley. In the end that parallel between himself and Hereton, and his reluctant love for the boy, is a great contributor to his defeat. He became Hindley. Hereton and Cathy became himself and Cathryn, and I don’t think he could be the villain that squashed their happiness the way his own was. He wanted them to have the love story he and Cathryn didn’t get, and although he tried to make Hereton suffer the same childhood he did, I don’t think he wanted Hereton to suffer the same adulthood.
Ps. Love these videos and your analysis. I just finished reading Wuthering Heights for the first time and I’m obsessed with it. Hence watching all these videos and commenting so much.
Heathcliff is one of my favorite characters of all the time, he's so complex and interesting, i just love him so much, everything around him is tragedy and i love tragic characters. I don't think he's a villain but either a hero, just in the same way he's the victim AND victimizer. I love that he never takes his finger off the line with his revenge, which definitely leads to his inevitable demise, but somehow we have this allegory where he somehow atones through Hareton, since he literally sees himself in that boy, and it's painful for him to have Hareton in front of him before his death more because he sees in him what could have become of him if he had a chance to get rid of all the pain and rancor induced by a justified thirst for revenge, rather than because he reminds him of Cathy or Hindley, we can't say he did anything to remedy the way he treated Hareton, even if he's sorry for it, but it's clear that he loves the boy and somehow his love for him and Nelly ultimately allowed him to finally find rest, and know that despite all that Hareton suffered because of Heathcliff, Hareton continued to love him and suffering his end is a way to break the cycle of abuse, ultimately Heathcliff died alone, only accompanied by the memory of Cathy and the desire to rest by her side for eternity but i think he would at least find relief in knowing that Hareton found his own heaven, as Emily say, unlike Heathcliff that tired to built hell in earth so everyone will burn with him. We can practically find in Hareton what might have become of Heathcliff if he had not been pushed into loneliness and rancor.
Heathcliff says he understands Hareton's pain obviously since he suffered the same thing and i think the latter was what brought him down in the end, what was so painful is that Hareton found his way out of it, while he dedicated himself to prolonging his suffering,
and the pain of knowing that despite everything Hareton found enough love to forgive him, and suffer his departure, is poetic in his way of hurting. He rejected Hareton's company out of guilt more than jealosy for his new friendshipp whit Cathy II, i think, because he learned to love him as a blood son and he hurted him the most. I just think their dynamic later in the book is just 👌 even when they're not much together explicitly. Also him and Nelly, it was painful how she rejects him when for the first time he asks for sympathy and company before dying. This whole book is just raw and amazing, i just love it, one of my favorite books of all the time.
Heathcliff is a villain with a pure beautiful thing among all the horrors of his life: his love for Cathy
He is the ultimate grey character (with more bad than good though)
Heathcliff is one of my absolute all-time favorite fictional characters. Very complex, revenge-fueled character, who loves and hates without compromise. He's a character you simply love to hate and also sympathize with. If he was a StarWars character he'd be Anakin Skywalker / Darth Vader for sure ! Haha
I'll just add that I absolutely love how Tom Hardy played the role of Heathcliff in the 2009 Wuthering Heights mini-series ; his performance was the reason why I read the book (which has become my favorite book ever since; that I keep re-reading every year 😁) Heathcliff is one of the best anti-heroes ever written! 🖤
Def the best Heathcliff
He captured his suffering
I feel incredibly sad for him as Catherine is despicable to him also
They were perfect for each other, hard n mean
But I didn’t see Catherine’s suffering much, if at all
My view of Heathcliff was that he felt like an outsider that wanted to be accepted. The way Hinely treated him slowly turned him into a villian. He kept on being treated like a bad person so he became a bad person as a way of self protection. Nobody wanted to accept.His obsession with revenge is the only thing that gets him through the rest of his life besides Katherine. I always found him a fascinating character because of this aspect of his character. I don't condone his actions but I can understand to an extent why he feels the need to be awful to everyone around him.
HE MURDERED AN INNOCENT PUPPY. He's beyond redemption.
Heathcliff is one of my favorite characters, and I remembered Wuthering Heights mainly because of his character. It's hard to determine whether Heathcliff is a hero or a villain, but I think he fits neither. He was rather, a deeply wounded, abusive, ruthless, and vengeful man that his miserable, abused childhood turned him out to be. Heathcliff was so complex, with layers within layers that it is almost impossible to describe him in just a few words. There were rare moments when Heathcliff let the gooder part in him show with Catherine, but his hatred was always much stronger than his love for her. He was abused and denied love and affection when he was a child. The moment he thought he found this in Catherine, she denied him too, and he lashed out with violence and revenge. He was also very, very obsessed with her, the way a child was obsessed with his precious toy. Take it away from that child by force, and that child will throw a tantrum. This type of mindset was clear in Heathcliff's case, but no one could save him at that point. It was sad to think about it, that even Catherine eventually turned her back on him, as they could no longer walk the same path. And it was even sadder that he longed for her love, then ended up destroying her, and himself.
Heathcliff and Catherine's tragic story will always haunt me even after years of reading this book, considering I was around 12 at that time. Emily Bronte was brilliant in the way she built her characters, and even though they were not exactly lovable or likable, we can still sympathize with them, and understand why they did what they did to survive in a cruel world.
HE SLAUGHTERED AN INNOCENT PUPPY. That makes him a villain.
I may be obsessed with a dead love too (died at 25 in 1990) so I can truly understand it. I’ve never been the same since, raising our children all alone and now looking at old age.
I will be relieved to see my love again.
When I rode the book, I thought that Cathy genuitly stole the Heathcliff's soul in her death and that's why he was really crual with everyone in this part
Just finished re-reading Wuthering Heights. Favorite book ever probably. These videos are very insightful and I appreciate that you made them, as most of the stuff out there is designed for high schoolers who are trying to cheat their way through lit classes haha. Thanks for the great analysis!
Thanks, I am glad you enjoyed the videos! :)
Fascinating character for certain, but one that none of us would want in their real lives. Nasty piece of work.
Just finished Wuthering Heights for my studies. Struggled not to be moved so strongly by the plot, the characters and themes. Heathcliff in particular took me from tragic foreshadowing, to abject hatred, morose antipathy to finally a strong sense of remorse and pity.
The real masterful part of the book is how it drives you to desire vengeance against Heathcliff throughout most of it, yet when it finally arrives as his guilt catches up with him, it makes you chastise yourself for mirroring his intentions. A truly compelling story.
Poor Heathcliff really had it hard
I have sympathy for Heathcliff as a child, none after that.
Wuthering Heights broke my heart for Heathcliff. I haven’t been able to forget him as a character. I’m rereading a second time examining Heathcliff’s character more closely. I agree with many of your thoughts. I think those that were abused by him would see him as a villain (like young Cathy or Hareton; they don’t get the backstory like we do so as readers or like Nelly so we are able to have more compassion and heartache for him) I think he’s a victim turned villian. But definitely a lot more complex. He’s the only one that didn’t ever really receive that love, affection, or any sense of stability or security. Everyone else had their family. And they were just nasty perhaps from being too spoiled.
Now that I’m rereading it, I see just how much he was deprived of any love. We don’t even know what happened to his parents. Also he didn’t speak the same language creating even more of a barrier for him from his new family. Thankfully he had Mr Earnshaw who had a heart for him.
I had looked up the word heath, and I saw the definition was: an area of open uncultivated land…” do you think Emily chose that name to represent his character? He truly is an uncultivated (deprived of any care) land. And unfortunately could not produce any good fruits.
I also had wondered if she Emily Brontë was trying to show NT teachings through this story. Like showing what can happen when you don’t love your neighbor or what can happen when you don’t love your enemies or forgive and allow yourself to become bitter and vengeful.
What broke my heart even more was that he expressed to Nelly that he wanted to be good and I think he wanted her to teach him (which reminds me on your point about him not having had someone to teach him) then Hindley humiliated him, I think Edgar was laughing a long too. At that point I had wished he knew of Jesus’ teachings and maybe would have found solace in someone who was rejected and mistreated. And found a better path to follow.
But don’t get me wrong, I’m sure I felt so upset with how he was abusing others. (I’m just at the beginning of my re read so unfortunately I know later on he becomes so terrible to others, these beginning details are just fresh on my mind at this moment)
Thanks for your comments. You're definitely right about Heathcliff's name; I would go further and even add that "cliff" is a link to the sublime in nature. She also does the same thing with the "wuthering" in "wuthering heights". Wuthering means rough weather, especially winds, which characterises the tempers of the characters that live there.
I would agree mostly with you on how little love Heathcliff receives, though I would say that the same is true for Catherine, at least when she is young. She's the least favourite child of her family and her father even prefers Heathcliff. She gets some love from the Lintons but it's too late by then, and they never love her for her, but for what they want her to be. But yes, aside from Mr Earnshaw, Heathcliff is treated awfully by everyone.
I have another video talking about the revenge theme and the New/Old Testament stuff, and I agree with you there. If you look at all the characters, those who die or have a worse time are those who can't forgive, or break the cycles of revenge. Only with the union and mutual forgiveness between young Cathy and Haerton do we get resolution.
Thanks again for your interesting thoughts! It's always nice to see people moved by this great book. :)
@@JoshuaJClarkeKelsall Thanks for your response and sharing your thoughts also. I’ll be keeping an eye out for Catherine’s dynamic with her family. There truly is so many characters that are so mean to each other. I am glad that it did end on such a positive redemptive note. It left me hopeful for young Cathy and Hareton. I hope to check out your other video on revenge and OT/NT themes.
@@JoshuaJClarkeKelsall and yes Wuthering Heights is the perfect name for the setting and the characters. Mr Lockwood refers to the setting of Wuthering Heights an “atmospheric tumult” I thought that was perfect to describe the characters as well
Heathcliff is my favorite character in the novel. Great video 👏
You are not going to believe that how desperately I was trying to find out this particular video.......and finally after investing a brief amount of time ,i got it........and the calm which it brought to my mind, by the time I went through the whole video(one sided talk ) , was like something which I can't even express......
Heathcliff was one of my first wild and obsessed(with love) book boyfreiend.
Iwas just a child but somehow I recognize their love and than their hatred not only or mainley to each other but mostley to themself...
I love them both even now after some dacades....and their night meetings full of feelings from love to hate to maybe hope!
My forever book!
Everything hinges on the scene when Cathy tell Nellie of her love for Heathcliff but he has already left because she says she's going to marry Edgar. How we all wish he had heard what she said. But would Cathy have done anything differently??
Catherine is a spoiled little brat
Excellent lecture! I think Heathcliff is both hero/villain depending on who you ask, that’s what makes him such a immortal character I think. Interesting at 11:45 on the OT/NT way of looking at it, I hadn’t thought of that but see it certainly, and can agree. Wuerthing Heights in top 5 all time favorite books
Glad you liked it! And yeah, you are right, it's the moral complexity of Heathcliff and most of the other characters in the book that keep people returning to it. :)
I don’t know about hero or villain 🙄🙄.. but I love Heathcliff ❤️
He's a fabulous character! :P
Yes of course.. sometimes pain is better than love ❤️ because pain is loyal and pure..
I really enjoyed your video. You've done an amazing job and you really helped me to understand Heathcliff more.
Thanks, I'm glad you found the video helpful :)
Excellent…I think he neither a hero or villain, but definitely a victim. I think Emily loved Heathcliff and thought him a hero, because Emily feels so wild and passionate herself to have written a book like this. I don’t feel we should judge characters in the book because it is a wild story and not a vehicle for a moral point of view. This is one of the things I love about Wuthering Heights and something rare in modern writing where stories seem to have to have agendas other than a ripping story. That isn’t to say that Wuthering Heights doesn’t say anything about humanity..it does…but that isn’t all.
Yeah I agree with you 100%! I think moralising is one of the worst things a story can do, and Bronté, even though there are moral lessons in the story, doesn't do that. She just presents her story and let's the reader do the work of learning a lesson if they want.
Hello, my friend!
I recently discovered your channel because I've been reading a lot of books for a while and although im not a literature student, idk i just got connected in some way these few months, i really love it now and I've been trying to listen to youtubers reviewing books
Im so glad i found your channel and you're amazing mate ;)
I've never read this one, but the way you described the whole things makes me mesmerised, and you're very unbiased, that's the most important thing that I've noticed, and thank you for sharing your thoughts hehe
I will try to read it and tell me my pov too sooner !
Hey I am glad you are enjoying the channel and literature! I look forward to hearing your thoughts once you've read the book, and hope you keep enjoying the videos :)
Honestly, Heathcliff is both a victim and villain. I have no sympathy for his domestic abuse towards his wife Isabella, though likewise, I have no sympathy for her unforgiveness towards him. If only he had had the wisdom to accept Catherine's marrying Edgar with good grace, then so much tragedy could have been avoided. Sadly, his downfall is that not only does he not learn to do that, he becomes an evil, controlling, embittered, revengeful person - just as Catherine, Edgar, and Isabella. The one thing I CAN say to Heathcliff's benefit is that, unlike Catherine, Edgar and Isabella, and with which is implied by Emily Brontë is that eventually Heathcliff comes to have secret regard for Hareton and, in a similar vein as his uncle Edgar, in spite of everything, Hareton still sees Heathcliff as his adopted "true father" and loves him dearly. In fact, as documented in the book, Hareton kisses his corpse relentlessly, digging the grave with tears spilling down his cheeks. As Nelly points out, "... poor Hareton, the most wronged, was the only one who really suffered much" for Heathcliff's demise: He sat by the corpse all night, weeping in bitter earnest. He pressed its hand, and kissed the sarcastic, savage face that every one else shrank from contemplating; and bemoaned him with that strong grief which springs naturally from a generous heart, though it be tough as tempered steel". Though, for Heathcliff's part, towards the end - he does start to show some mercy towards Hareton and Cathy - because of his secret regard for Hareton, he begins a a sudden indifference about his enemies' destruction and he lets the two continue their romance. So, as you said, though I do disagree with you on key points regarding the characters - you summed it up initially by saying this story shows How not letting go and allowing for revenge, bitterness, unforgiveness, etc to take hold and this is demonstrated by almost everyone.=
Thanks for your insightful comments. I think you are right in saying that Heathcliff is both a victim and a villain. His compassion for Hareton and even his (initial) love of Cathy are his redeeming features. Unfortunately, his love of Cathy is too selfish and caught up in his total identification with her that he can't let her go, just as much as she eventually realises she cannot do for him.
So do you believe if Heathcliff were raised by another family, he would have a better life? That he turned out the way he is because of the nature and people around him?
Also, would you do a video about Hareton and young Cathy? I feel they always get overlooked in adaptations and discussions.
@@nola3963 Don't worry, I have an episode on those two coming up! It's Isabella and Edgar next, then those two! (Plus Linton) :)
I think in the world of Wuthering Heights, probably. It seems that characters who are raised with love tend to end up more compassionate than those without.
Although with Heathcliff it is tricky, since he sort of comes into the story a bit strange and different, so you could say that it's in his nature too!
I'm nearly finished this book and I cannot believe how great a read this is, I can actually see parallels to Sandor from the ice and fire books, no Heathcliff never chopped anyone up with a sword but had he had one and been allowed swing it.. Obviously heathcliff is the original and it's just a theory that Martin subconsciously drew from his character when writing the hound.Of course I could be wrong.
Heathcliff was a product of his childhood..😢
I'd say Heathcliff is truly an agathokakological character.
Now THAT'S a word! :P I thought this was a joke at first until I looked it up haha. I agree with you though :)
I read the novel recently and fell in love with it. Heathcliff is such a complex character and that makes him very interesting. I appreciate your commentary, you are doing an amazing job!
Thanks! He is definitely a fascinating character and there's a lot more to say about him than I even managed to cover in this video.
To be fair this book turned out to be a nightmare for my existence, i couldn't focus on anything but these characters, it was a clustrefuck to be honest but i never could've thought Heathcliff to have a complete villian arc he was just wild in his ways thats all he never softened throughout his life which shows he was never tamed off course. Beautiful novel but now i need an inhaler.
Tragic and flawed. A testimony to how cruelty in childhood can lead to horrible adult outcomes: revenge and vengeance in this case.
you’re videos are so helpful, i have my wuthering and tess of the durbervilles exam soon !!
Hope your exam went well :)
it did!! the questions were religion and disappointment and i chose religion bc it was the one i really wanted :)
I’m watching the movie. In the movie Heathcliff is cruel and self obsessed and is a user. There’s always reasons but at the same time we are moral agents. We are accountable, it’s what makes us human. I intend to read the book. I read it decades ago but must reread.
When I first read this book I heavily identified with heathcliff. As I’m older now, I almost wish that wasn’t so. He’s definitely the most interesting character in the novel & you want him & Catherine to work but they’re both so flawed.
T was not convinced that Heathcliff was uneducated. Just like Nelly he could have educated himself as a self taught. His ideas and speech are too sophisticated not like Harethon for instance. He is intelligent and cunning like some kind of supernatural being. He could be a vampire.
Well he did educate himself once he left Wuthering Heights and did whatever it was to get that money. At Wuthering Heights... I'm not convinced. It's not like he could just pop onto google and download himself an syllabus for mathematics, English, and science.
Heathcliff is the antithesis of the Noble Savage!
But think of how unhappy we all are now being "domesticated" Primitive is must more fun! Kidding...well sorta'. Good discussion. Agree with almost everything. Bit on the fence about people who are classified as "they don't 'know right from wrong". Not sure I believe this. Taking Heathcliff and being abused and hating it. Well common sense tells us "that is bad....he beat me...he is mean to me that is unfair so---I will do the opposite. I won't beat people, say unkind thing". Seems pretty straight forward even from a person with little "intelligence" (I use the word loosely and not judgmentally). But yet he (and people like him) do the same things that they hated being done to them. How often have we heard (in sexual abuse cases) "oh he is a sexual abuser because he had it done to him when younger..." OK...and your point is?? One knows right from wrong instinctively. We could stretch the idea that Healthcliff was abandoned and had to fend for himself, so he was hardened early. OK but once he was taken in he should have learned what was right and wrong. If he decides to go against society in "revenge" that is one thing but I can't give him the excuse "poor tyke doesn't know right from wrong" Anyway Joshua--thanks for the upload. Have a good weekend.
Thanks for your comment! Always nice to get your thoughts. I basically agree with you. I guess the point I am making the video isn't that Heathcliff gets a free pass because he "had it rough" or that having a terrible upbringing will necessarily produce bad people later in life. Instead, the point is that, in Bronté's world upbringing does have a big impact on later life.
As for the excuse point, I don't mean that we should ignore Heathcliff (or Catherine's) wrongdoing because of their upbringing, but what I want to get across is that it's important to try and empathise with the character and their struggles. Just because I think people tend to write off Heathcliff (and to an extent Catherine) as irredeemable baddies!
The story is told by Nellie Dean and Mr Lockwood. Both of whom are, some in most senses, low grade snobs. Nellie doesn't like Catherine, at all. She feels a bit sorry for Heathcliff, but only for not knowing his place. Her memories, the heart of what we are told about Heathcliff and Catherine, are that of a teenage servant girl. Does Emily look at Heathcliff and Cathy in the same prim way Charlotte did? Does order, at the end of the book, lay the passions and jealousies of wily, windy moors in its grave? In the 1840's, women were not allowed to have passions. Catherine marries the rich guy and dies in childbirth aged 18 for the privilege. The novel is about the two Cathys. Hareton is the only man in it who is not a thug. He looks like one, and cares for the other.
Es todo muy dicotómico, lo apolineo y lo dionisiaco
I have a question Why didn't blood come out of Heathcliff's wounded hand when Nellie found him dead in Cathy's room?
I'm not sure about that one!
This is because he was already dead when his hand was wounded by the window. Post mortem wounds do not bleed because the heart has stopped beating and therefore there is no blood circulation anymore. The blood tends to collect at the bottom of the body, so if his hand was resting on the window sill it makes sense that no blood would come out when the skin was torn.
Sorry for the gruesome explanation!
So he went out the window to join Cathy once he was dead?
Or did he let her in once he was dead?
I feel like this is a betrayal of Emily Brontë, to state that she's merely urging us towards love and compassion and that New Testament morality as you said yourself. Brontë indulges in these wild, violent characters. Catherine, arguably the central character we're meant to identify with, identifies so clearly with what Heathcliff represents and she mourns the loss of that part of her as she transitions into the supposedly cultured life that holds to those Christian standards. The novel shows us on multiple occasions that there is no love without violence, no compassion without cruelty, it breaks distinctions down instead of advocating for solutions. This isn't Dickens. But then again, perhaps not everyone was meant to understand or be able to identify with the likes of Heathcliff. Which is why Brontë puts so many obstacles in front of our view of Heathcliff. Lockwood, Nelly, Catherine... she knows these characters will be more easily digestible, the subtle critiques of culture/society embedded in them lost on the majority of readers.
There is indulgence in the wild characters, but we also have to see where those characters end up. I think critiques that focus too heavily on Catherine and Heathcliff and their passion ignore the second half of the story. It is clear, given what follows, that those who pursue cycles of revenge suffer for it. It is Young Cathy and Hareton that are able to break the cycle of bitterness and revenge that destroyed the rest of their family.
One thing that also makes me think that Emily Bronté is against romanticisation, is the passage where Catherine openly mocks Isabella for taking romantic notions of Heathcliff's wildness. I take this to be an implicit jibe at readers who may also be swept up in the passion of it all, and miss the bigger picture.
One point of agreement that I think I do mention in another episode, is that Bronte does believe in the integration of wildness and society, but it's clear again, considering the development of the story, that its integration that matters. Catherine may well rue the day she sacrificed the wild for the tame, and she dies for it. But Heathcliff also suffers, and he is the only character who fully embraces wildness. As do the more civilised Isabella, and Edgar.
It's only the characters who integrate the wildness with morality, like young Cathy and Edgar, who thrive at the end of the story. For that reason, I do think that Emily Bronté is urging us towards love and compassion, whether Christian or not.
Also, I dispute the implication that I "merely" state that Emily Bronte is doing this. The novel does a great many other things than this, after all, that's why I made so many videos about it!
@@JoshuaJClarkeKelsall Forgive me, I commented without having watched your other videos, so I probably missed a lot of context. I can understand your position better now, but my reading was still significantly different. Brontë is definitely against a certain kind of romanticisation, the kind that naïve young Victorian ladies reading about Byronic heroes in the comfort of their homes indulge in. But, Catherine's passion is moreso one of kinship with Heathcliff rather than some idealised "I can fix him". And I think Brontë stands fully on the side of that passion.
I think the ending certainly tells us that the future is tame, that wilderness will be tamed, but even that is not without violence, without the violent separation from the kind or oneness that Catherine and Heathcliff enjoyed while playing in the moors. Life itself bears the mark of all past and present violence, overt or covert, and really the only "escape" for those elements deemed too wild and redundant is death. And it's a cycle that will repeat itself, I think that's what Brontë is trying to tell us. Cathy and Hareton aren't saved, they are simply a sign that times will change, that they are changing, that the world is being progressively tamed. But what is lost is the almost mythological passion between Catherine and Heathcliff. I think there's a reason she doesn't dwell nearly as much on Young Cathy and Hareton, some of that passion has to die the smaller and tamer humans become.
There's a lot of room purposely left for interpretation with the use of multiple narrators giving second hand accounts, and I think your view on Catherine and Heathcliff's mythologisation being a thing almost imposed on them by these second hand sources certainly has some validity to it, but there's nothing in Brontë's tone that indicates to me that we're meant to view these characters as "suffering creatures" that need to be considered solely as victims, stipped of all dangerous romanticising of their lives. I think that's more of a modern sensibility that we project onto the work. I merely think that the kind of passion that they have, and the kind of spirit, is meant to call out to those who share it. I feel like the author is fearful of putting it into words, fearful that the average reader may somehow... dilute its meaning, intensity, so it's better to keep the majority of readers removed from its heat.
But I suppose with added context I can at least understand your perspective better, I think it holds a lot of water, but it seems to me that the book contains all kinds of perspectives and characters on purpose, it's going to be a different read for everyone. There are certainly those who miss the subtext completely and treat this as a simple romance.
You're definitely right there about multiple perspectives. One of the reasons the book is impossible to pin down is because of how many narratives and narratives within narratives there are. It's one of those novels where it's hard to even pin down who the main characters are; there are obviously those with a huge presence, but it seems to be a novel about the generations, or the things that move the characters even, than the persons themselves sometimes. I'm glad I could make my position clearer all the same. :)@@lukailincic2411
@@JoshuaJClarkeKelsallAbsolutely! Agreed 100%
Still an abuser thouh. Great humanized character, victim and victimizer... not a hero by any means, but not devoid of simphaty.
Implying that he’s an uncontrollable savage because he wasn’t educated is a bit classist no?
Thanks for your comment, although I don't think that's my implication at all.
I use the term "savage" to describe Heathcliff and Catherine not in a derogatory sense. What I mean here is that Catherine and Heathcliff are representation of nature in an untamed state. By "education" what I mean is a process of socialisation.
In the world of Wuthering Heights, Heathcliff (and Catherine as a child) are not socialised. They are "left to the wild" which again is noted by Nelly in the novel. So by savage what is meant is that they are outside of the norms of the society, and this is the term used to describe them, and Heathcliff especially in the novel.
Also, to be classist is to make an implicit value claim that the "educated" state if somehow superior to the savage state which, if you're watching my reviews, clearly isn't my view at all. I definitely come down much more on the side of nature, at least in Wuthering Heights.
I hope that clarifies my thought on this point.
@@JoshuaJClarkeKelsall that actually makes a lot more sense. Thanks for explaining!
Heathcliff became educated when he ran away at hearing Catherine was marrying Edgar
Maybe not alot, but refining was now present and he made a fortune. So he raised his class up actually.
Thank you so much , can I have your contact ??
Idear😂😂😂