The beginning may not make any sense if you didn't watch the first repair video, the very first part with the creepy music was from the middle of the first video... I just put it back in to show that I correctly predicted the problem :)
this may sound stupid but your kind of a little bit of a hero for saving and restoring all these old beauties,cant understand anyone who would dump quality vintage stuff like this because its broken..... love your channel 👍
Best advice I can give you is a chest mounted Go Pro camera that you are not one handed, The image quality is better and the shakiness is less no more waiting to focus. Good Video though showed a lot of how the old electronics work. I have played many of the games you have repaired on your channel when they were new! I look forward to seeing the new videos keep going you doing great!
I'm here by way of LGR. While I don't have an interest in collecting for myself, the process of testing and troubleshooting the ICs and microcontrollers is so enticing. I took a few electronics and digital signals courses in college and the idea of having practical applications to use that knowledge to solve problems is so motivating to me.
Yeah it's like a logic problem (literally.. .both ways) you have to track down and solve. Usually it makes sense when you figure out what the bad chip is! The EM pinball machines (Electro Mechanical) that we do, too, are the same idea but it's just switches... and it doesn't cost anything to fix the problem usually, you just adjust the switch once you figure out which of the 1000 switches is the problem!
What a great video. I love watching you bring these machines back to life. Have you ever fixed a Phoenix machine? I’d love to see a video on that then some gameplay. Please keep these vids coming fella. Great channel
We have done some Phoenix machines, yup! Ironically, just today I was working on a Phoenix pinball machine (of course completely different than the arcade game). Next time I get a Phoenix in I'll film it for you :) Thanks for watching Drumfreak we appreciate you out there!
You know what's really fun with the 4" trackballs? Atari Football. That is until you pinch your palm between the ball and the edge of the housing at full speed because the ball is sitting too low, just like this one was :-)
I give this repair job a complete Approval. The very same thing I do is check the line cord and on the pins I get in most of them have ground cut or the cord is cut or both and spliced badly together. Then the fuses are rarely the right amps.
That version was a lot like the arcade except that there was only one base instead of three. I remember getting good at the Atari 2600 version, which was a great game--one of the best on the platform--but considerably simpler and easier. I have a really vivid memory of the first time I ever saw Missile Command: they had the full-size upright installed at the local A&P (in those heady days it was not uncommon to see a video game at the supermarket!) And I just marveled at how high-resolution and vivid the color graphics were. It made me want to be a game developer, which I never did become, but I did go into computer graphics.
I guess the moral of this is when working on an old video game that hasn't been turned on in ages pull the power supply and clean then replace all caps and the voltage regulator first. Amazes me that you can work out what is going on here. Piggy-backing a chip is a new one on me!
We messed with the power supplies in the first video, never replaced either voltage regulator though.... (until they both failed!) the Piggy Backing thing doesn't always work.
I'd hate to be the monday morning quarterback know-it-all type, but maybe it'll at least help someone at some point It's a good idea to cover the clear quartz windows on EPROMs (@ 6:55) - enough UV light through that window will erase/corrupt them over time (not that there's going to be much light inside a cabinet, but still) It's standard to just stick any opaque sticker or tape over them, but they probably fell off at some point.. Doesn't need to be anything special, anything opaque absorbs enough UV light iirc The ones with no windows are mask ROMs or OTPROMs and of course don't need it
It's a good idea, no downside to adding a cover. It would be unlikely for the chip to lose its data (stolen from Wikipedia): Erasure of the EPROM begins to occur with wavelengths shorter than 400 nm. Exposure time for sunlight of one week or three years for room fluorescent lighting may cause erasure. The recommended erasure procedure is exposure to UV light at 253.7 nm of at least 15 Ws/cm2, usually achieved in 20 to 30 minutes with the lamp at a distance of about 2.5 cm.
Interesting info! (This is just a random thought - likely completely wrong, and nothing relevant to my suggestion) That made me think. I wonder if it's possible for x-rays emitted by a CRT to have any effect on them. iirc there's usually barely enough power for them to escape the tubes, let alone travel a couple feet and penetrate an IC. I've read of people using high power x-ray machines to erase windowless OTP EPROMs for whatever reason. So apparently it is physically possible for x-rays to erase them in some way. Whether or not it actually erased them or just destroyed them I have no idea.. Technically you could "erase" a rom with a hammer lol Anyway, I've got no physics knowledge, so I'm probably just thinking out of my ass. And this has no relevance, I guess I'm just thinking out loud...
came here from LGR when he got this machine. Loved the style of your channel and the narration and a good mixture of detail and nothing boring. Excellent!
Do you know of any database of stores like yours that fixes old machines like this and sells them? I live back west and it's not really that practical for me to ship stuff from your store but I want to start getting some of these older machines like this.
OK an interesting question. But just curious.. The scan lines from the crtv from all the way up. To all the way down. And all the way to the left to and right like any crtv should do being video recorded. But sometimes the scans are going to the lower left corner of the crtv. Why is that? It's weird I know..
It's all just a timing thing, sometimes the camera will pick up the scan so you'll see it like you're talking about, but if it gets in a certain 'focus' where it's really picking it up it'll appear to go backwards because of the way the frames per second on the camera are catching the forward movement of the scan... kind of like when a car with rims is driving sometimes the wheels look like they're going backwards.
Thanks Idk what happen to the pinball but all I know it smelled like it was burning but it worked before it got it to the house and needs new glass and a bumper fixed now idk what needs to be fixed
OK that's how a trackball works... Not like an upside-down computer mouse.. But question. Is the full upright versions of Missile Command or Atari football based on the same design? With the big ball?
Are you familiar with the 810K bug that awards the player approx 170 bonus cities at a score of 810K, I believe this bug has been fixed with a chip on my CPU, have you heard anything about this?
You've worked so long with arcades that you actually developed a problem pattern recognition, which lead you to figure out that mathematically it's probable that ROM #2 is dud.
Those are logic gates at 7:05. They look like NOR gates with NOT inputs to turn them into regular OR gates. OR Gate -------- Input Output 0 0 = 0 1 0 = 1 0 1 = 1 1 1 = 1
Hey Ronnie..I got given an Atari 7800 cartridge called Karateka but I don't have an Atari 7800..do you or anybody else have any idea how much one of those things cost and where I could get one?..thanks..hopefully this comment don't get deleted 😔
Why would you want to?!? Actually, I am curious as to why someone would want to do that. If you really want it to be a certain color, I'd get a replacement clear trackball and add the colored light of my choice underneath it. And keep my original trackball original for when I decide to switch it back.
You may be able to paint it, I'm not sure... but in reality, the ball is worn smaller. I don't know if I mentioned it in the video, but as the rollers wear the actual ball becomes smaller too (it's plastic, the rollers are metal... if they're wearing you know the plastic must be wearing away too). So if you're going to replace it you kind of need a new one. Rolling on the rollers would likely wear away paint, but you may be able to dye it.
The beginning may not make any sense if you didn't watch the first repair video, the very first part with the creepy music was from the middle of the first video... I just put it back in to show that I correctly predicted the problem :)
this may sound stupid but your kind of a little bit of a hero for saving and restoring all these old beauties,cant understand anyone who would dump quality vintage stuff like this because its broken..... love your channel 👍
Thanks Sharaz Jek we appreciate you watching!
Thanks for fixing this up so LGR could give it a good home! ;)
No problem :)
Best advice I can give you is a chest mounted Go Pro camera that you are not one handed, The image quality is better and the shakiness is less no more waiting to focus. Good Video though showed a lot of how the old electronics work. I have played many of the games you have repaired on your channel when they were new! I look forward to seeing the new videos keep going you doing great!
Thanks J Bearss, we appreciate you watching, see you on the next one!
such a beautiful machine. Even aged.
Absolutely !
I'm here by way of LGR. While I don't have an interest in collecting for myself, the process of testing and troubleshooting the ICs and microcontrollers is so enticing. I took a few electronics and digital signals courses in college and the idea of having practical applications to use that knowledge to solve problems is so motivating to me.
Yeah it's like a logic problem (literally.. .both ways) you have to track down and solve. Usually it makes sense when you figure out what the bad chip is! The EM pinball machines (Electro Mechanical) that we do, too, are the same idea but it's just switches... and it doesn't cost anything to fix the problem usually, you just adjust the switch once you figure out which of the 1000 switches is the problem!
What a great video. I love watching you bring these machines back to life. Have you ever fixed a Phoenix machine? I’d love to see a video on that then some gameplay. Please keep these vids coming fella. Great channel
We have done some Phoenix machines, yup! Ironically, just today I was working on a Phoenix pinball machine (of course completely different than the arcade game). Next time I get a Phoenix in I'll film it for you :) Thanks for watching Drumfreak we appreciate you out there!
You know what's really fun with the 4" trackballs? Atari Football. That is until you pinch your palm between the ball and the edge of the housing at full speed because the ball is sitting too low, just like this one was :-)
I've definitely done that before, OUCH
The cool part things like the track ball is how they pick up the movement. I would like to see how they programmed for that.
By the time they did this one they had used track balls in a ton of Atari games so I think they considered it a good fall back control :)
4116s are a PITA! When replacing, it's often worth using a 4516 or 4164 with some slight reconfiguration of legs.
They do die a lot!
Very entertaining and fun to watch. Thanks for posting this.
Thanks for watching Kurt's Place!
I give this repair job a complete Approval.
The very same thing I do is check the line cord and on the pins I get in most of them have ground cut or the cord is cut or both and spliced badly together.
Then the fuses are rarely the right amps.
Yup the fuses are always wrong and the cords usually get all screwed up when they move the game and drag it over the cord!
Looks great and work fine , great job👍🏼
Thank you Danijel!
love me some missile command simple but brilliant game
Yeah it's really well designed, as most Atari games were! Even the sound is great.
Awesome video! Great to see this pcb come alive. :)
Another one rides the bus :)
Great part 2! Yeah I kinda freaked out for a moment with the creepy music lol it's all good
LOL
That was one great troubleshooting job!
Thanks, I was glad to see it come back alive :)
I use to play Missile Command on the Atari XEGS.
Very cool !
That version was a lot like the arcade except that there was only one base instead of three. I remember getting good at the Atari 2600 version, which was a great game--one of the best on the platform--but considerably simpler and easier.
I have a really vivid memory of the first time I ever saw Missile Command: they had the full-size upright installed at the local A&P (in those heady days it was not uncommon to see a video game at the supermarket!) And I just marveled at how high-resolution and vivid the color graphics were. It made me want to be a game developer, which I never did become, but I did go into computer graphics.
...oh, yeah, it was actually the *built-in* game on the XEGS! I remember that same version as a cartridge for the 400/800.
I guess the moral of this is when working on an old video game that hasn't been turned on in ages pull the power supply and clean then replace all caps and the voltage regulator first. Amazes me that you can work out what is going on here. Piggy-backing a chip is a new one on me!
We messed with the power supplies in the first video, never replaced either voltage regulator though.... (until they both failed!) the Piggy Backing thing doesn't always work.
I'd hate to be the monday morning quarterback know-it-all type, but maybe it'll at least help someone at some point
It's a good idea to cover the clear quartz windows on EPROMs (@ 6:55) - enough UV light through that window will erase/corrupt them over time (not that there's going to be much light inside a cabinet, but still)
It's standard to just stick any opaque sticker or tape over them, but they probably fell off at some point.. Doesn't need to be anything special, anything opaque absorbs enough UV light iirc
The ones with no windows are mask ROMs or OTPROMs and of course don't need it
It's a good idea, no downside to adding a cover. It would be unlikely for the chip to lose its data (stolen from Wikipedia): Erasure of the EPROM begins to occur with wavelengths shorter than 400 nm. Exposure time for sunlight of one week or three years for room fluorescent lighting may cause erasure. The recommended erasure procedure is exposure to UV light at 253.7 nm of at least 15 Ws/cm2, usually achieved in 20 to 30 minutes with the lamp at a distance of about 2.5 cm.
Interesting info!
(This is just a random thought - likely completely wrong, and nothing relevant to my suggestion)
That made me think. I wonder if it's possible for x-rays emitted by a CRT to have any effect on them. iirc there's usually barely enough power for them to escape the tubes, let alone travel a couple feet and penetrate an IC.
I've read of people using high power x-ray machines to erase windowless OTP EPROMs for whatever reason. So apparently it is physically possible for x-rays to erase them in some way. Whether or not it actually erased them or just destroyed them I have no idea.. Technically you could "erase" a rom with a hammer lol
Anyway, I've got no physics knowledge, so I'm probably just thinking out of my ass. And this has no relevance, I guess I'm just thinking out loud...
@@leisergeist X-rays and windowless ROMs? That would be an interesting topic for electronupdate or Applied Science to talk about.
That'd be neat! Might be worth suggesting
dude that was fascinating! sub'd!
came here from LGR when he got this machine. Loved the style of your channel and the narration and a good mixture of detail and nothing boring. Excellent!
Thanks man, tell LGR we appreciate it :)
Nice repair to an old classic. One question tho, to the right of the trackball is a cut out. What is that for? It is to mount the panel?
yes a bolt goes in there to bolt the panel down.
Do you know of any database of stores like yours that fixes old machines like this and sells them? I live back west and it's not really that practical for me to ship stuff from your store but I want to start getting some of these older machines like this.
Nice, you totally called it.
It was just a guess I didn't have anything leading me to believe that... i'm just lucky :)
Thanks for this video, do you have a source for the schematic available (preferably original ones) or high resolution pictures/scans?
Thanks for watching, you can get the schematics here : arcarc.xmission.com/
@@LyonsArcade thanks so much. Way better resolution than I found before!
If anybody wonders, I have printed these at staples in the largest blueprint format and they look good!
OK an interesting question.
But just curious..
The scan lines from the crtv from all the way up.
To all the way down.
And all the way to the left to and right like any crtv should do being video recorded.
But sometimes the scans are going to the lower left corner of the crtv.
Why is that?
It's weird I know..
It's all just a timing thing, sometimes the camera will pick up the scan so you'll see it like you're talking about, but if it gets in a certain 'focus' where it's really picking it up it'll appear to go backwards because of the way the frames per second on the camera are catching the forward movement of the scan... kind of like when a car with rims is driving sometimes the wheels look like they're going backwards.
Nice video I have two projects to fix my new pinball and my shooter game nice to see a cool machine back and working
Thanks Supergamer, good luck on your projects!
Thanks Idk what happen to the pinball but all I know it smelled like it was burning but it worked before it got it to the house and needs new glass and a bumper fixed now idk what needs to be fixed
You're gonna have to go find what's burning :)
Just to let you know My name is joe too and I’m 15 so idk a lot about this stuff so idk what’s up with everything but idk I’ll look into it all
You can figure it out Joe, let me know what game it is whenever you get ready to look at it and I'll tell you what to check out.
I used to be SO good at playing Missile Command; I don't know what the hell went wrong... :-P
I never was, HAHA!
am wondering if an occasional track ball waxing would help reduce wear
It very well may, I've never thought to do that though....
How did you get the four black Allen bolts off the top of the trackball assembly? I'm having trouble getting the shafts and bearings out.
If I remember correctly they came right off with an allen wrench, there wasn't anything special about it.
@@LyonsArcade I tried a few Allen tools, but they are stuck
@@LyonsArcade I got it all rebuilt, repaired, and re-lubed. No worries! Now on to Player 2. Dang cocktails...
OK that's how a trackball works...
Not like an upside-down computer mouse..
But question.
Is the full upright versions of Missile Command or Atari football based on the same design?
With the big ball?
Yes, this was called the Mini Trak ball, the big one was just called the Trak ball. Same design just larger!
Are you familiar with the 810K bug that awards the player approx 170 bonus cities at a score of 810K, I believe this bug has been fixed with a chip on my CPU, have you heard anything about this?
Did you measure the diamiter of the old ball and compare it with the new ball?
No I didn't have a caliper or anything to do it with. If it's smaller it'll be minor...
Can you get some measurements of that cabaret cab for me please?
Which measurement do you need?
Side view, from the back up to the first angle. Same for the front. (just the wood measurement, not including the leg levelers).
You've worked so long with arcades that you actually developed a problem pattern recognition, which lead you to figure out that mathematically it's probable that ROM #2 is dud.
I thought it was just because I was Psychedelic.
Those are logic gates at 7:05. They look like NOR gates with NOT inputs to turn them into regular OR gates.
OR Gate
--------
Input Output
0 0 = 0
1 0 = 1
0 1 = 1
1 1 = 1
is it common to read german words on these machines? münze means coin and spiel game - seen at 10:53
You can change the language with a couple switches on the game board!
@@LyonsArcade crazy stuff multilanguage in the 80s :)
Hey Ronnie..I got given an Atari 7800 cartridge called Karateka but I don't have an Atari 7800..do you or anybody else have any idea how much one of those things cost and where I could get one?..thanks..hopefully this comment don't get deleted 😔
cool
Yes it is!
@@LyonsArcade good!
Can the trackball be painted or not?
Why would you want to?!?
Actually, I am curious as to why someone would want to do that.
If you really want it to be a certain color, I'd get a replacement clear trackball and add the colored light of my choice underneath it. And keep my original trackball original for when I decide to switch it back.
You may be able to paint it, I'm not sure... but in reality, the ball is worn smaller. I don't know if I mentioned it in the video, but as the rollers wear the actual ball becomes smaller too (it's plastic, the rollers are metal... if they're wearing you know the plastic must be wearing away too). So if you're going to replace it you kind of need a new one.
Rolling on the rollers would likely wear away paint, but you may be able to dye it.
Yup the lit up track balls look great.