CNC Lathe with Masso G3 Touch Turning ISO20 Pull Stud
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- čas přidán 2. 08. 2024
- The first project on my recently retrofitted Intelitek Prolight Turning Center with the Masso G3 Touch controller: Making a pull studs for ISO20 ER20 collet chucks that didn’t fit well into my Super Prolight 1000 Machining Center.
Links to components used:
Masso G3 Touch Controller: www.masso.com.au/product/mass...
Threading tool (I had to mill this down to fit): amzn.to/3Awsg5q
Grooving & Parting tool (I had to mill this down to fit): amzn.to/3Opyee6
ISO20 ER20 Collet Chuck Tool Holders: www.ebay.com/itm/353371884755
My website: www.id3ntitycrisis.com
My design portfolio: www.id3ntitycrisis.com/portfo...
When threading on CNC you need to allow an acceleration distance at the start of the thread, fusion may call it a lead in distance, on your machine I would say 3 to 5mm should be enough. Only finish a diameter once, carbide tips do not cut well at a depth of cut less than the tip radius. You will get a much better finish with a 0.2 rad tip and a 0.25mm depth of cut. If you find you get chatter then use GT style tips on small machines they work well in all materials not just aluminium and they reduce the cutting pressure and stop tip rub/chatter.
Great video! A couple of tips from my 30 years plus of cnc machining - cutting oil/coolant is a must to improve surface finish and extend tool life. And have less material sticking out from the chuck, i know it's scary but for the best accuracy and finishes the parting tool should be max 3 - 5 mm from the front face of the chuck as it parts off, this will stop deflection. 😁
Thanks, I appreciate the tips! After several cuts, I was starting to feel more comfortable and adjusted it so there was much less stick out. I do like the idea of adding coolant...I could probably hook up a mist coolant system pretty easily for it.
I run a shop that can’t use recycled coolant for contamination reasons so all our stuff is mist / MQL cooled. There are plenty of inserts now that run quite happily without any coolant. Aluminum is the problem child but if you look at the Datron system you can see how that’s managed. For a small home shop, something like a fog buster is fine. Without adequate ventilation, coolant fumes can become intrusive.
@@rexmundi8154 That is pretty cool how the mist looks like it's integrated with the spindle! I was going to try this mist coolant: amzn.to/3UVjzZD Hopefully the fumes aren't too bad
@@diyfiberlaser that’s the same brand that we use in our shop. It only takes a few ounces per gallon of water. It’s pretty much odorless. They also make a air powered mister that works well and has a magnetic base.
On my prolight i set up a mist system for turning and it made a huge difference. I use kool mist #77 and it works great!
Always keep the distance from the chuck as minimal as possible for rigidity. Always use cutting fluids based on material type. Cute little machine, great for a hobby shop.
Nice job on the stud and retrofit!
Impressive results on your prolight 3000!
Great videos! I just finished converting my ProLight 1000 to Masso G2 and could not be happier! Excited to see your Super retrofit! I also have a ProLight turning center running on OG win98 and Great job with the threading! Would love see how you integrated the tool changer.
I just found your channel, thanks youtube algorithm!, both the lathe and the mill look soo good, Its the first time I have heard about this brand of machines, they look good. I am looking forward on watching more projects, and your shop looks like it has many stories to tell too. You have a new subscriber, keep up the good work. :)
I hadn't heard about them until recently also. I think they were mostly sold to schools and now a lot of them are being retired so you can find them on the used market. As far as I've seen, they seem to be about as rigid as you can get for a hobby machine.
Flipping amazing! I knew these machines were high quality but they seem to be near professional level. As always, spectacular job!👏
Thanks! We can make some more if you need them for your machine
just found you channel and watched all your videos. now i feel the need to buy a mini cnc mill and turning center like you have...
great video...nice explanation and trouble shooting...
Really nice results. Lube and maybe a few more finish passes and you will have nice parts. Material selection will help a lot too. 4140 cuts much cleaner than 1018 etc. 41L40 would be ideal for a smaller machine.
Dude how wild. I need to do the same thing as my emco has a proprietary pull stud. I bought a 5 pack and it was ridiculous
Haha...it should be a fun little project!
Nice work! One cutter with a 35-degree plate is sufficient for a clean pass
I’m about to order a Masso G3 touch. Thanks for the video. A word of caution about grabbing those long stringy chips by hand, if they get caught by that chuck while you’re holding them they will instantly and effectively cut your hand. Over 30 years I’ve seen some impressive cuts from chips. One guy I worked with had a chunk out of his fuck you finger he called his cigarette holder.
Thanks, I appreciate the safety tip!
The fact the the cutting tool went beyond the centerline and to the other end of the stock does indeed suggest that the machine was set up in "radius mode".
In the masso axis setttings, try to half (or double) the steps per unit settings for the X-axis. This should half the distance the tool travels in the X direction, thus giving you the correct dimension when programming in diameter mode.
Thanks for the suggestion. When I jog the machine manually or using gcode, it moves the expected distance on the display readout and when double checking it with a ruler, so the steps per unit appear to be correct. When I inspect the gcode output from fusion 360 it is actually telling the machine to travel twice as far as it should, so it must just be an issue or setting with the post processor
Hi! Nice job! A little tip for better threads: use "fade thread end" in fusion, then after you've done the full thread, make a finishing pass on the same diameter that was before thread but in direction from the chuck, then another thread pass at full depth and another finishing pass. It will remove all the possible burrs)
And yeah, start the thread at the distance 1.5*pitch from the threaded face, and make it a bit longer
I will try that next time, thanks for the tip!
I'd machine these from 2 sides, so you can get a smooth top, instead of having to debur them by hand, Just take a piece of scrap with M8 Threads in there.
First Machine the threads, and then Cut off.. you can have very little stickout with that,
Then, Put the still round stock in a vice, mill the flats on the shank, Bolt them to the scrap piece in the spindle, and machine the other side..
"I don't know what kind of steel this is..." You and Jeremy should go for an expedition in a creek and find something really rusty to use for making pull studs.
Thanks for the demo, though. I just purchased this controller and will be using it with Fusion.
reducing the amount of material sticking out of the chuck will help massively with vibration its surprising what 5mm less stickout will do
Thanks for the tip!
I'm setting up a Hardinge-Masso retrofit. On the tool offset page, what's "tool direction" field for? I can't find any mention of it in the manual. Thanks for the video, it gives me hope that my retrofit will work eventually.
if there one thing I wouldn't make myself its a pull stud. good chance of damaging the mechanism in the machine and they youll have problems with all of your toolholders, if its not straight the whole toolholder can be crooked, and they are under a lot of stress. at least for bigger tapers they have to be forged so the grain direction is correct of they fatigue and break prematurely
Its amazing sir. if our masso support G71 code for turning?
I use diam. On my lathes when you set your tool make a cut measure it and put that size in x and it should cut fine for you
Nice 👍. Maybe you know what is the holding force for iso20 ? Thx
these look like BT30 45 degree pullstuds. it is used a lot for ISO toolholders. No idea if there is also an ISO20 version but I assume there is.
I'm wondering if you don't have enough holding current and the axis is dropping under its own weight, as the stepper isn't under power. It happened to me. Make sure you have idle current for axis under the influence of things like gravity.
This and the previous videos on your Prolight 3000 Turning Center conversion are great! I have a 3000 Turning Center also and plan to convert to the Masso G3 Touch like you did. Does the Masso G3 control the 8-position tool turret out of the box, or did you need to do some custom macro work or other mods to the Masso s/w and/or h/w? Thanks.
It has a preset script that works perfectly for it right out of the box, it was surprisingly easy.
Hi Travis, lots of good suggestions in the comments re chuck stick out and cutting fluid. I use a mist coolant as it is not as messy as flood. What sort of insert were you using for the turning? My lathe has just 1/2hp at the spindle and I have used Sumitomo FC type inserts for years. These have a ground edge and are much sharper than moulded inserts. I have no idea what other brands might call them but I assume others have similar inserts. I have used the inserts for aluminium on steel and they cut quite well, they don't last very long, but as they are so cheap in hardly matters.
I have a video of making a pull stud in 4140 if you are interested.
Chip control is an issue with your turning. I saw your hand\fingers try and remove the long chips. The first time you try this and the razor sharp chip ( even Aluminum) suddenly grabs and pulls tight you will learn, ask me how I know this. I cut my whole hand across my palm and took a chunk out of my Thumb. Use long nose pliers or a chip hook. I was lucky that I didn't cut deep enough to sever any tendons & yes it was very painful. Lesson learned. If you have chip nesting problems then you can program the cuts to start at the spindle and move towards the tailstock, this way the chip is pushed away from the chuck and nesting doesn't happen. I enjoyed your videos however, just the cringing brought back bad memories, you never forget!!
nice video! the tool changer is controlled by the 3rd axis? and it has some position sensor or something? curious how it works as im looking at a larger lathe for conversion and it has similar tool changer with more stations. thanks
Exactly...there is an index switch that it turns until it triggers on startup to find tool #1, consecutive tools are found by turning specified number of steps from the index position. I'm guessing on larger machines there would be 2 switches, one for index and one that is triggered when each tool is in position.
Is that pull stud the P120T-1, or M8xP1.25? If so I could use about 5 of them. let me know if you would like a little side work lol, would be super cheap to ship. Great videos!
It looks like your spindle motor is a brushed dc how did you wire it into the control can you make a video on it?
i bought a southbend magnaturn 612, its a complete machine but its not working, it has baldor ac brushless servo motors in it, very nice machine, wondering if this masso conversion will work for mine??
I don't see why not...you should email them and ask, their support is usually very helpful
Try to keep your stock as close as possible to the chuk. Less chettering .
u should start your thread a bit further out and maybe use cutting oil for steel.
Odd that the post was wrong. Did you use the Masso post processor with Fusion 360?
Is it possible to do internal threading with masso? Thanks!
i suspect your lead screw is not the pitch you expected when you set it up in masso if your pitch is twice that expected it explains the radius measure being used instead of the diameter
Thanks for the tip! That was my first thought as well, but it seems to be traveling the correct distance, both on the digital readout and when I double check it with a caliper...the gcode from Fusion 360 is actually telling it to move the diameter distance, which is what is confusing me...I think I need to do some more testing with onboard Masso wizards to see if they behave the same as the gcode I am getting from Fusion360
How does this machine compare to the Emco PC Turn 55?
How are you controlling the toolchanger? It appears to be stepper driven but that is a 2 axis Masso? I must be missing something.
3 axis controller
When the threads are cut: how is it ensured that the cutting tool every time starts at the right spot?
There are two encoders on the spindle, one reads the rpm, and the other indexes once per revolution, each threading pass it starts the cut at the index trigger…that’s my understanding
@@diyfiberlaser Sounds logic! Thanks!
Was the radius / diameter issue resolved in firmware updates?
I later found out from Masso that there was no firmware issue...it just turned out to be user error
@@diyfiberlaser it happens, thanks for the fast reply.
hello How did you make cam or mosso include cam fonction.
can you add it?
Fusion 360 post processor.
@@diyfiberlaser many thanks
Mosso has real time show position?
@@cuneytbasak yes
Could you share the masso controller between your lathe and a mill/router? Instead of buying one for each machine
That's a really interesting question! ...as of now, it seems you have to choose which between the two, as you can only install either the milling OR lathe software
I do that for my mach3 c10 board and share it between router and mill. But you need two profiles in Mach3. If you could do profiles like that I would probably consider switching myself since the G3 looks so awesome
@@benzhuk876 It says here that you can switch between the software for both machines, but it takes about 90 seconds, but I'm not sure how that would work having it hard wired up to both sets of motor drivers, etc... docs.masso.com.au/MASSO_FAQ/about_masso
Did you already figure out the diameter/radius issue?it’s an easy fix on Masso+dial indicator. Your calibration on the X axis is incorrect. I made the same mistake on my first cnc lathe build.
Yes, it was an easy fix. I talked to Masso about it...it was just user error and my misunderstanding of how it was supposed to work.
9:10 11:58
Your feeds are too slow, or the spindle speed is too slow, resulting in poor chip quality and just strings of metal coming out
Hello, please don't use your bare hands to remove metal shavings, it's really dangerous! Alternatively, you can make a hook from soft wire.
Thanks for the tip!
I love it when you release a new video!!! Get to the top fast > Promo_SM!