10 THINGS WE DIDN'T KNOW BEFORE MOVING TO FINLAND (Chinese & Russian perspectives)
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- čas přidán 24. 09. 2023
- In this video you will learn about the Finnish things that may be surprising to foreigners after they move to Finland. To show different points of view I have invited a friend to participate in the video. Everyone, meet Yutong! Together we discussed our experiences as immigrants and shared some interesting facts. Enjoy!
Yutong's channel: / @ytslifedoc
Yutong's Instagram: / yts_life_doc
Referenced reel (Her Finland): reelCxaTBb...
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Alena (“e” is pronounced as “ö”)
The degree or nature of the organized work processes depend on the work culture in the company, which in turn depends on the history or the company but also the field or profile of the jobs can make big difference.
The trend for decades has been towards more self managed and towards more specialist type organisations. Middle management layers have been removed where possible.
Specialists are often seen as the best to choose how they shelf will achieve their goals. They also don't so easily let other people or the organization to tell them how to do their work.
This is of course only at some level of professional expertise and specialization.
Companies do have all kinds of internal processes and quality assurance systems where it is documented how something should be done or handled. How closely these are followed in the daily work, that can vary from place to place.
It for sure varies in some unexpected ways🤦🏼♀️
@@AlenaTalks
I have experience of working in a company going through ISO 9001 implementation and certification. It was revealing for me to see how the different levels and parts of the whole organization approached it. For some all that mattered was to get the certificate on the wall and perhaps get a personal bonus since the certification might have been one of the conditions for their yearly bonus.
Great insightful video! And what a cute visiting co-star cat!
Thank you! Yes, he was born to be on the Internet😄😍
Nice video especially because you had a guest!
Thank you! Yeah, I also enjoyed it☀️
A Chinese woman thinking that she has to work too much? I think that she must be in a very bad Finnish company. Bad luck; I hope that she will find a better job.
Yeah, she is exhausted. But I’m pretty sure she will get a great one!🤞🏻
You don't HAVE to work a single minute overtime here, she is choosing to work overtime.
Has nothing to do with the company, this is not China where you are forced to do something, lets make this perfectly clear.
@@Intruder74 you are mostly right, but of course there are differences in Finnish companies. In some you are mildly or even more pressured to do overwork. And if you are on the koeaika you feel obligated, because that could make the difference if you get a permanent job or not.
Also your coworkers might feel that you are not a good pal if you don't, if e.g. they have kids and you don't.
@@Intruder74 There definitely are jobs, where the tasks are organized such, that unless you are superhuman or really agressively sticking to your job description, you will find yourself in situations where you feel the need to work overtime. And if you are foreigner you might not really trust or know about the unions or how much they can help. Not to mention taking that route can potentially paint you as toxic for other employers.
Hi Alena, in Finland the the windows have got triple glasses! All best wishes to both of you!
I’ve seen both double and triple glazing☺️ the triple one is really amazing!
Thank you very much☀️
@@AlenaTalks Every house and building I've ever lived in after living in Finland for 40+ years has always had minimum of tripple glazing. I think modern passive houses already use quad glazing (typically implemented with two double glasses with inert gas sandwitched between the glasses. However, with quad glazing the heat loss is so little that the outermost glass surface starts to get frosty so most people actually don't like that. Tripple glazing seems to be nearly optimal because it leaks enough to clear the windows except for the coldest nights in the middle of the winter.
@@MikkoRantalainen hmmm, maybe on some occasions I confused double and triple🤔 and I kinda agree that triple is the optimal solution!
@@AlenaTalks Some really old houses may have only double windows, if they haven`t been upgraded yet.
Don’t know what kind of workplace Yutong was in, but in a lot of places personal initiative is valued and people just expect stuff to get done without much ceremony.
Less top-down management and more “organize yourself” if that makes sense.
Excessive overtime does sound that maybe there’s some issues stemming from management though.
As I understood, all those issues mostly came from working overtime🤔
I agree. I sell consultancy and IT related projects and point out to both consultants and project managers (mostly foreign) that whereas Finns seem easy going, expectations are high when it comes to delivery, preparation, communication and timeliness. I have not worked in China but in the past I worked for a Taiwanese company with huge teams in China and noticed that a lot of time was spent (or wasted from a Finns point of view...) on strict hierarchy. In Finland you are expected to act rather independently and usually have freedom to take decisions and responsibility as explained in the previous comment. Of course these are generalizations and the reality depends on many variables.
@@Chris-pf8by
There is sometimes the conflict that you're expected to take action without authorization and take at least in principle personal risks, if things don't turn out well in the end.
This kind of balancing can feel bad, if you're unsure about the support of your organization and managers.
Lazy fcks those in charge so they expect they can just sit and enjoy their day instead of having to work and manage the place. Only the workers doing anything in this country while the so called educated ones sit infront of their screen drinking coffee while planning their free time.
@@just42tube yes the support of the organization is key to this kind of working. If you empower people to do things on their own, they mostly will. Maintain a fear of failure/blame, they won’t.
In any big company you hardly get to understand the dynamics, the culture and the structure of the company in one year. You need at least two years of experience before some of the default features of the company start revealing themselves to you. There is always so much unspoken things and suppositions in complex organizations with a set of complex human beings doing their tasks. Finnish companies expect a lot of self-management from their workers. This is possible because our relatively small population is culturally so homogeneous. Universities and other education institutions do not differ much in terms of the quality of their teaching. The overall level of the workers is good, which results in trust that workers can do the things they are expected to do. In big countries, like China, you have so much variation in the quality of degrees and the general knowledge of the workers coming from different parts of the country. Therefore you need a management that supervises the workers closely and does the decision making. People from such diverse pool of employees can't by any means operate on default assumptions of things. Self-management means that workers do many things that they rarely mention, because others already know what they are doing or they do not need to know every step of the way. This may look random and chaotic to someone who is used to very clear structure and to management by orders. In self-management you are supposed to present your problems to the closest manager. You need to seek support and help in problem solving actively; in self-management you manage your help seeking yourself, too! I would say, though, that managers do have the responsibility to guide new workers through the introductory phases and assure that there is communication with them. People coming from a very different work culture should perhaps be treated as having special needs. Managers are only people and really good managers are as rare as really good pianists, plumbers or teachers, really good anything. So, it is no wonder if you haven't been guided to your company with awareness of cultural differences. My advice would be, stay at least two years and ask for help when you need it.
It is a good point, but too late, she left the job and is looking for another one😅
Thanks for your entertaining video. A couple of observations:
1. I suppose you both live in Helsinki area. For many Finns that's not really proper Finland at all.
Many things/phenomenons common/uncommon in Helsinki are quite different in real Finland and - depending on your point of view/preferencies - can be much better or worse.
2. I've never seen any statistics about the coffee consumption in Helsinki, but whole Finland consumes the most coffee (beans) per person in the World. The Swedes are the runners-up.
Yes, sure, our observations are area-specific. It will be interesting to travel across Finland to explore!
this was fun! maybe you two can collaborate again in the future :)
For sure😉
Good idea 😊
it always seemed bizarre to me when people would ask me why I took my master's degree when I was in my early 30s. I had to constantly explain that I went to university to learn the material - not to get a job. I already had a job - I just was very interested in the subjects I studied. It seemed wiser than watching tv every night after work. It was.
Yes, sometimes people don’t understand that others may simply be curious about learning certain things.
12:46 Cat doesn't care. But that's how it is with cats. It's not there for you. You are there for it. :)
Cats don't have owners, they have staff.
Exactly😂 although he was quite affectionate a few times😄
@@AlenaTalks Cats can appreciate nice staff and sometimes even show it.
Tällaisia iloisia laululeikkejä tällä kertaa! ;) hehheh
I am curious about of the views both of you have about this:
You are members of one of the largest foreign language groups in Finland. Since language and individual backgrounds are known to effect what information channels people use and sometime very strongly make one to select and follow only their own sources, what are your experiences and views about this among those groups of which you have personal experience.
I have understood that there are foreign language immigrants who follow news and get their information almost only from their native countries.
The barrier for not using Finnish sources might be based on language difficulties, on some personal believes like religion or political preferences or perhaps based on some mistrust of local authorities and media channels.
Do you seen or experienced any of this?
Not really. I check media in English or get news from my Finnish acquaintances.
@@AlenaTalks
I tried to ask about your observations of others in the same lang group.
Or would you rather not comment on what others do..
@@just42tube I don’t know much about it
@@AlenaTalks
Had you noticed this:
The first episode of Yle Novosti's new talk show from Yle's Russian-language editorial office will be on Yle Areena on Thursday, October 5 at 6 p.m.
I don't speak or read Russian language so I don't know much anything about these talk shows or news programs in Russia by YLE.
@@just42tube I don’t follow them, so me neither
Hi Alena.
Thanks for the new upload. I have really been waiting.....📆
Please pass on the thanks to your guest Yutong as well. I feel like you have found a good friend and spiritual sister. Thank you for your open discussion and your views.
A suitable amount of exercise lowers the stress level and good basic fitness is beneficial throughout life. Social connection related to exercise is also important.
It is good to bring up experiences and views on the practices of society and working life. There are certainly areas for development, and without discussion, development will not start.
Dress warmly and enjoy autumn. 🧤🧦🦺
Thank you☀️ yes, we definitely clicked immediately!
Can’t say crossfit is a suitable amount of exercise, it’s quite tough, but it is a pleasant type of exhaustion😄😅
I think having to work a full 12 months to take any paid days off is pretty bad tbh , I’ve worked in Netherlands, France Germany and I’m from the U.K. , I’ve lived also in Denmark and USA. I have to say the working standards are the worst here. I guess it all depends on expectations and where you are from. I wish you guys the very best
I agree on that. For example, in Russia it’s 6 months (something in those lines at least), which seems reasonable.
Thank you very much☀️
yeah and in usa there isnt even paid days off ? :D
@@uy6324 I heard jokes about it before, so are they really jokes?😄🤦🏼♀️
Having to work a full 12 months to take any paid days of is false understanding of the Finnish legislation and labor market agreements.
Three are different kinds of days, which are either paid days off or double pay. One example is independence day.
I think the misunderstanding is based on assuming that the only paid days are what accumulate for yearly paid vacations.
One evidently significant problem is that there are employees who try to take advantage of new immigrants who aren't knowledgeable enough of their legal rights based on the TES agreements in the field. Immigrants who don't become members of trade unions don't get information and advice from the union, might not even understand the benefits of being a union member or becoming a member of a unemployment benefit fund.
Interesting that you've worked in Denmark as well since the yearly holiday thing is the same in all Nordic countries so it shouldnt have been different from Finland's
You have every right to criticize employers, but it can ruin your career. You can be considered disloyal forever. It's not fair but the grim truth everywhere in the world. Take care.
Well, I hope there are more sensible people on the world who realize that it’s not the question of loyalty💁🏼♀️
@@AlenaTalks
My understanding is that you better not give the impression that you give away company secrets of otherwise intentionally are trying to attack you previously workplaces, since that can be seen as negative and dangerous personal attitude. Being analytically critical and setting limits to what you reveal, can be seen more positively.
In a recruiting or a headhunting situation it is understandable to mention why you seek new employment or why you could be interested in new opportunities. There usually are push and pull like reasons and smart people understand that.
But they are also worried about possible negativity and tendency to just accuse others without recognizing own mistakes and responsibility.
But if course all needs to be in reasonable balance. If a person just wants to leave old job and is too much focused on the past negative experiences, that is not very promising starting place. Better focus on new opportunity and the future job speak more about what you would like to achieve and could offer to the new employer of organization.
Past is past. It is good to learn about it what you can and tell what you have learned. But dwelling in your past problems, that doesn't help.
I wanted to respond to this about the work situation, I want to point out that we are build or more like born for physical work. We have a strict work schedule (8 hours to complete bunch of things) and we do it efficiently to have (another of your point) good coffee/smoke breaks. How your work days go is all about how efficient you are. BUT efficient worker is never noticed/rewarded in Finland because it's such a normal thing so we're kinda used to be overworked etc. So my tip, be efficient with your work and WORK METHODS, always aim to get that down time. So be a pro at being lazy
It's a good point! and I love the last sentence😄
is it worth saying comments like what you said at the beginning out loud if you are looking for a job??
1) It’s our honest experience
2) As we said, it doesn’t apply to all workplaces
@@AlenaTalks I also have honest opinions about many things, but I don't necessarily tell them to those to whom I want to present my best side...🤐
@@peketee2278
Pretending can work sometimes for some time.
Being honest doesn't work always either in every situation.
But being open, trustworthy, knowledgeable about yourself and having understanding about yourself in work-life, that can be a winning strategy in the eyes of a smart employer or manager. It can also help to get not just some job but a job in an environment, which is better for you in the long run.
@@peketee2278 well, we didn’t say anything bad anyway. Just that not all places have work-life balance and some degree of structure.
"Whitey"?
?
@@AlenaTalks i think when you said your friend's name, it sounded like "yte". I also thought: that is not a Chinese name :)
@@AlenaTalks i mean when *she* said her name, it sounded like "ytn" :)
@@kasperjoonatan6014 Ah! Her name is Yutong, but she also says it as YT😄
I hate Russia, I love russians.