When Custom Moves Were In Super Smash Bros, and Their Downfall
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- čas přidán 2. 08. 2024
- The Customs Era of Smash 4 was one of my favorites...
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Its a shame that Jigglypuff has the worst set of custom moves especially since she didnt get any buffs in that game either.
It's pretty obvious she was meant to be bad in Smash 4
She actually got Nerfed. fair is worse in 4 than in is in brawl. She just couldn't get any luck
A dev had to have snuck jigglypuff in for how forgettable she is in that game
Ok but Zelda
I’m convinced they only decided to Buff Jigglypuff in Ultimate because of the Everyone Is Here Slogan.
Fun fact: Sakurai actually patched a few custom moves. He only stopped after the community banned them from competitive, so a lot of the "Silly ones" that were found later like DK's Up B could have been nerfed if they continued to be legal. Makes you think 🤔
Oh damn I didn't know about this, sad because Palu could have gotten better although the version we got in Ultimate makes you wonder what could have been in 4.
The smash bros TOs were and still are stupid
@@mandalorianhunter1palu got to have some of them in ultimate, but nobody else
@@williamwest9204To be fair her move set was kind of up to player interpretation though
@@superknuten3845 not when the reference is right there
I loved the idea of custom moves, made the characters feel more unique and personal. Especially Ganondorf's Wizard Dropkick, on the ground it made him go high enough at the start to avoid projectiles, and in the air massively helped his recovery.
They definitely shouldn't have been so hard to unlock though, especially since you could get custom moves you ALREADY unlocked. Wouldn't mind seeing them returned, if they're better implemented
I liked custom moves cause it gave charecters an edge in a certian area. Bowser in particular. I know plenty of people can use him great but my biggest problem was he was slow and had no projectiles. I added a custom move to replace his fire breath. Instead of the short litle flamethrower he could launch three huge fireballs at an oponant. It had range and speed. Another small change I did for Link was replacing the gale boomerang with a standard one. It just botheted me the gale bolmerang drew items too you and getting exsplosive items like a bombomb was anoying. it may have changed up how charecters wer used and I understand some felt that was bad for the games but being able to add some changes you wanted in a charecter was good for some.
Worth noting, Palutena has so many unique customs bc she uses a large majority of the custom equipment skills in Uprising, which made her a good candidate for the "tutorial" character on how custom moves worked. Like you mentioned, Mega Man had a similarly large pool of reference material that also made him a good candidate
I feel like some custom moves could've been applied to some echo fighters' movesets to make them more unique, like for Daisy and Dark Samus. And yes, I totally agree that Wizard Dropkick should have been Ganondrof's new down special.
Agree 100%. Why not give Dark Samus Screw Rush? Why not give Daisy Sleepy Toad and Flower Bomber?
@@real_abender Exactly
yeah they were really lazy for not doing that lol
@@kayden2119 Right because laziness is ALWAYS the reason 🤦
@@real_abender I mean yes its really lazy to just make them skins while giving them a second slot.
Some should've became part of official movesets like Ganon's and Luigi's. It's cool Palu got that in Ultimate.
In my opinion, Daisy and Lucina should've gotten one of their base character's customs to differentiate them more. This would've been a way to make them a little less like complete reskins (especially in Daisy's case), while still keeping the workload of making an echo fighter low. I personally would've gone with Crescent Slash for Lucina and either Heavy Veggie or Light Parasol for Daisy.
@@ShibuNub3305 I feel like Daisy should've gotten a completely new Down B and Neutral B. She has nothing to do with Turnips or Toads. Sakurai got so lazy with Daisy. Especially when other Echo fighters like Ken have some unique moves.
@@jackflynn412 Bruh why is the accusation always someone being "lazy?" I keep hearing that for so many complaints for things, I feel like people forget what it means.
@@real_abender Smash fans just assume that reusing resources to save on time and money rather than changing things for the sake of changing them is lazy because they don't know anything about programming.
@@twinkling_topaz14 It's not just Smash, I see this for so many video game criticisms.
I ended up unlocking all the customs back in the day. They're fun to mess around with, but they definitely weren't competitive lol. Surprised you didn't talk about the whole Mii debacle back in Smash 4, since that whole thing was tied to the banning of custom moves, but I can also see that might be too much to go over in this video. Maybe a future idea, idk.
Miis would be too bad with just customs even stronger ones like piston punch
Different sized miis were why miis were terrible
God mii, average mii and useless mii shouldn’t have existed
@@jmurray1110 I mean they're legal in Ultimate now, so arguing about it is mute, but plenty of Mii players were willing to accept using average sized Miis, but even then they were denied at most tournaments, or they were stuck to 1111 movesets. Average sized Miis with custom moves were perfectly fine. Not the worst characters in the game, but not top tier or broken either. Banning them was silly, and I'm glad they're legal now in Ultimate.
@@RednekGamurz oh I agree but I hear the reason people were so staunchly anti mii was because they thought small mii was the only mii since it was so broken
Actually coney talks about that shitshow in his reaction to heeew smash 4 is broken videos here
czcams.com/video/IUtJHzq9U_A/video.html
Honestly Miis could use their own video.
i got a turbo controller. mapped special to A. picked ganondorf and went to target. put a piece of tape to hold A down. warlock punch over and over and since it’s mapped to A, it cycles thru the menu to restart the target test.
Thank you for your service solider 🙌
It's a shame that these weren't allowed competitively. People complained that it changes the character too much, but is changing your specials really all that different from just picking a different character?
Yes, now it made Palutena playable but DK with his wind spinning Kong was just bunkers where approaches and punishes on him weren't really a thing where he would just knock you away
@@mandalorianhunter1 Oh no, a character got vastly improved, this must mean we should scrap the whole idea!!!
Some characters are better than others. DK was a mediocre character until he got his cargo throw combos, kong cyclone didn't completely break him. The move itself is great but it was stuck on DK.
@@brendanhughes5679 I think you missed the point about what I said.
Some custom moves made certain characters better, some not so much but some moves were busted.
Yeah DK got better with the Cargo throws but spinning Kong was a combo breaker, anti neutral tool, a get off me tool, a KO move and a armor attack all in one that prevented anything neutral or strategic. It was brain dead. Yeah it was on DK but it made DK a nuisance and a threat at the same time
@@brendanhughes5679 The problem with a lot of custom moves wasn't that they made the character they were on busted. It's that a lot of them were spammable to the point of being braindead, and were usually really fucking unfun to play against because of it.
Again, let's look at Kong Cyclone. On any stage with platforms, it gave DK the ability to just mash it, because it autocanceled incredibly easily, was massive and effectively impossible to contest, and would combo on hit. Unless he fucked it up and failed the auto-cancel, he could just keep doing it, over and over and over again. You really didn't have to think that much, and it made the character incredibly bad for the health of the game. Same thing with Trip Sapling, or Sonic's alternative side and n-specials.
@@brendanhughes5679
Yes, they can change the character immensely.
Kong Cyclone alone made DK from bad to insanely strong and hard to deal with because of how stacked it was (And it was on prepatch DK. Imagine it on DK with the Ding Dong)
Villager with trip seed and exploding baloons was extremely toxic to fight too since all he did was camping at the ledge and 95% of the cast had no way to deal with it.
I could go on and on but most custom moves were extremely toxic, polarizing, led into infinites, promoted non interacting etc. Or were outright useless.
Some of them were genuinely creative, healty and helped the character a lot, but was a big minority
Also customs were a pain to unlock (I had over 2k hours on Smash 4 and still don't have all custom moves. Is that hard), add this to how unbalanced they were and banning them was the best solution overall.
6:55 "You can essentially just spam this bad boy over and over and over. Rinse and repeat."
So Kong Cyclone is basically just Brawl MK's Mach Tornado
Yes, and its glorious.
I think one reason they never got too popular was that they were also banned online, IIRC not even for fun allowed em. Which is probably for the best I mean, just imagine how cheesy would be having to play into this DK every match lol
Custom moves are technically still in the game, albeit only Mii Fighters have them now. Still I wish more characters had moveset changes that reflected their custom moves like they did with Palutena. Ganondorf could of have been slightly better with Wizard Dropkick for example.
I remember having a the 3DS version and I was able to unlock all the custom moves playing the challenge thing, it was Grindy asf still but really fun to mess around with all of them
Some of my favorite Smash Bros Memories is playing with custom characters in Smash 4 with my college friends
King Dedede's Bouncing Gordos was the most fun custom move in the game.
I wish they kept the custom moves for Kirby and Mega Man since they both have a array of abilities.
I loved the custom moves because it gave the game more life to me. I’m not all about competitive tournaments. I actually played Smash as a party game, and custom moves gave so much more variety to it.
Sonic unleashed ost noice
great video as always, i appreciate a longer video. good shi
TBH they were just an excuse to bring cut characters back
Before Lucas became DLC, Ness had PK Freeze
I love the fact you used daisy circuit OST in this video, it's my favorite mario kart track song.
Mewtwo had a full set of glitched custom moves, you can even search it up online
I loved these so much ❤
I really feel like Smash Ult could've used the Echo Fighter system to offer alternative movesets for already existing characters.
Take Kirby for example. His default form would be normal, but an alternate version would swap several moves.
His jumps could be taken from Wing, his up B could be Tornado, and his Jab could be replaced with Sword. Just, swap all of his moves to something on-brand, whilst functionally making him a brand new character.
Now do this for basically every fighter. If they don't already have an Echo Fighter or that EF is too close to the original, just give 'em an alternate moveset.
The problem with custom moves was that they could create some massive jank, so a specifically curated moveset would solve this.
It honestly feels like Custom Moves would be possible if they had more work put into balancing, or maybe a system that allows you to block them from a match.
Imagine that the way to get them is by either fighting a boss based on the characters game, or playing through a single-player campaign whete you have to complete certain quests to find them or must find them along the way
Well, nice to see you could ban them
Light Egg Roll would’ve been great as Yoshi’s Side B.
Plautena was basically the poster child for custom moves and mega man
Imagine a custom moves but it only replaced one move and it was balanced allowing more variety for moves.
I would love to be able to mod the custom moves to actually be representative of their home games/series; much as what Sakurai and the other devs did with Palutena and Mega Man. Though it sucks that in a fair bit of cases, I'm forced to either leave some moves or even entire characters alone or go by moves or references that only came to exist after Smash 4. Being able to balance them for at least some competitive use also would be interesting, but it probably wouldn't be terribly possible to do that. If it's possible, it could even be cool to give the DLC characters their own custom specials, but Ryu I probably wouldn't be able to do anything with given his whole style. I can't even think of anything for Ryu outside of referencing Ken, Dan, or maybe even Ryo Sakazaki from Art of Fighting.
if theres something modern mortal kombat did right (and probably the only thing as well) its the variations
rather than having character alts like alph/richter, we shouldve had a set of alts ( either colors or characters like doctor mario/lucina) that had different properties, like a heavy hitting sheik (aka melee sheik) instead of the weak multihit sheik. wouldve taken more time to make for sure but it would've been interesting
Mario should've had the Mario Tornado as a Custom Move.
i hope this comes back in the new game with new development
do a series talking about interesting custom moves
I miss custom moves 😔
Same.
I really don't know what Nintendo was thinking giving Ganondorf a better recovery as a custom move. That's something that should've been stock for him, considering how bad his base one is and how slow he is
Mega man custom moves WAS SO GOOD
SO UNIQUE
SO MEMORABLE
Honestky the custom moves - good and bad, were fun to have geberally. It let characters be completely unique even if fighting against or with clones, and it would have been really cool if they had managaed to tranfer it over to ultimate.
I think customs could work in super smash bros 64 and melee, as long as it isn't possible to obtain duplicates
Got them all in 3ds using the home button exploit took me a whole year to get them all
What really annoyed me was that Ness never got to use psi rockin' or any of the moves he can actually use in game besides pk flash. Mother 2 has such a large variety of moves for the characters, but the smash team was just like, "okay here are three versions of pk fire."
I remember these times, the dark days
Imagine if Hero's menu had 2 other Custom move versions with completely different spells :^)
I was asking that with a friend
In the 3ds version, the easier way of getting these moves is through Smash Run
I remember charizard actually being viable with custom moves on, because they got some ridiculously good customs. In particular, I remember dragon rush being pretty decent
Ganons down b in super smash flash 2 is the wizards dropkick. Im upset it didn't come back in ultimate.
What’s the music that was used here?
Uhh... So I did unlock all the custom moves in the 3DS version of SSB4. It's absolutely something I never want to do again.
Fear the Sapling!!!
Hey, at least Custom moves are still technically in ultimate, because Mii Brawler can use it to be a more dedicated counterpick... What do you mean there's other 2 miis outside brawler?
WHAT IS THIS SONG AT THE BEGINNING?
im just 2 mins (2:01) into the vid, but yeah now i see why they banned custom moves even more-so now..
not just cuz some of the moves are powerful/broken.. but because they're difficult to get because you need to grind for them (? right?)
what's the song at 3:00
I’m still mad Wizard Dropkick isn’t standard on Ganon
music at 10:00 ?
bump
Even if I didn’t get all of the custom moves, I still wish I could get all of the hours wasted grinding for those moves
Between trying to make essentially 8 more mores for the entire cast of like 50+ iconic characters and trying to keep it relatively balanced, custom moves- as far as Smash goes- were always going to be kinda all-over-the-place.
I say for Smash specifically because they CAN work and I have played a game where it's a pretty similar situation (4 special moves, each move having two other alts to switch to; albeit it's a standard fighter with a roster of about 20-ish), and in that case the game is still fairly balanced. (If anyone is curious what game I'm talking about, it's called Touhou Hisoutensoku, or just "soku" for short. And it's... a different experience, even for 2D fighters. XD )
Even putting aside balance you can tell they struggled to even make distinctly different moves which is why so many of them are forgettable to begin with (if they're not just completely unusable). Even if it was just only one other set of specials instead of two, they'd probably still struggle a lot in that department. (Case in point, just look at Mario, who is supposed to be the typical beginner-friendly shotoclone: His neutral- and up-special, which are arguably the two most defining moves of any character's moveset, are of the cookie-cutter "same exact move but trade range/speed/recovery for power and vice versa" rule that goes for nearly every custom move in the game.) Then you add balancing as well as the possibility of future fighters coming to the game and you have a recipe for ambivalence right there. (And balancing in itseld is a whole other can of worms.) And it's not like I don't want this to work either but the idea was heavily flawed to begin with.
mash cyclone 😂😂
Custom moves was a crazy addition and actually cool for amiibo fighters but they did not need to return at all
To this day I'll never understand why TOs banned Palutena's custom moves. They are already unlocked from the start.
Or maybe Sakurai's team is at fault for not having them all unlocked in the first place. Such a missed opportunity.
The Miis Actually Still Has Custom Moves In Smash Ultimate
Only 3 characters have custom moves in Ultimate, the Miis
I do wish custom moves weren’t as busted as they were Ive always liked the aspect of custom load outs for different matchups like how paladins has cards. Like bruh doc Mario with that one pill that was pretty much like a falco laser that shit was cool and made him wayyy more viable but than we got shit like DK wind up-b…..
if you don’t know how long it would actually take to get all the custom moves, i got the game on 3ds in 2016 and have a total of maybe 2500+ hours and i *still* have 1 or 2 moves missing
Dear Lord.
I wish i couldve expirenced an op villager.
What was Sakurai thinking when adding this?
While it was a neat concept, they were either wildly under or overpowered, and took forever to unlock, I never got them all...
pleaaaaaaasssse make a video about the miis in smash 4, brawler was busted as hell
probably more busted than bayo lmao
There will be a Smash 4 Diddy Kong video on Patreon this week.
Bro said palutenas custom moves were weird and yet praised megamans for paying homage to his game, yet didnt research that palu's comes from kid icarus too 💀
They should have been in smash ultimate just not in online as like it’s own mode as a bonus they would not even need to be that balanced
Mod for Ultimate: bring back all custom moves from sm4sh directly into ultimate. XD :D
They were the reason why the Miis were banned
And we’re only unbanned in Ultimate when custom moves as a whole were axed from ultimate with the exception of the Miis.
mashahiro
they should not have made them unlockables, or made them all be unlocked by some task. Not one by one
Wait the custom moves are in ultimate because they gave the miis custom moves
I'm a fan. I would have absolutely loved to see what crazy stuff could come out of a customs metagame and all of the unique strategies and ideas. The whole "It's basically impossible to have them all unlocked" thing is really a shame.
Yeah they were pretty useless while they were around
It's 100x more work, but I think a smash bros with just the smash 64 characters, but each character having 3 move options per special would be way more fun than the hundreds of characters in ultimate. Each character would have like 81 different possible combinations, meaning there's so much opportunity for creativity and player expression.
I understand that not all characters have enough source material to provide interesting Custom Moves, but how do you screw up Custom Moves for characters like Samus, Link, Kirby, Pit and the Pokemon among others who have tons of source material to work with ?
It's like the developers didn't bother to play the games...
Time constraints. It’s a lot harder to code different movements into side B than to just give Link a slower boomerang. Let’s say they changed Link’s boomerang to the Twilight Princess ball and chain. Link would need to now have a different animation, and that would take a LOT of work because he’s essentially a different character now. Imagine the loading time.
Not to say it can’t be done, but they just can’t put in that kind of work especially when a majority of their players aren’t going to use them. I would…but I’m the minority 😂. I loved the custom moves.
I love you content man but never say “uwu thanks” ever again please
I didn’t use Cheat Codes I got all customs for Smash 4 100% no hacks or cheats all I used was amiibos
Things like custom moves and echo fighters could have been better and more unique if Nintendo didn't make consoles one after another and Smash wasn't on such a dumb deadline to pretty much be the release game. Smash games NEVER have enough time to be good and balanced at the start of their release and everything is so rushed.
"Match Cyclone"