Yep! She made it as obvious as possible that she wanted nothing at all to do with Jane any more... I suppose it would have been more insulting to send a card after 3 weeks, but my opinion is that she wanted to look at where Jane's relatives lived and where Jane was staying so she could make fun of her and bitch about her with Mrs Hurst back at home
Whenever I visited my grandparents as a child, I would observe that people came on short visits to say hello in the afternoon and chat for a bit, or perhaps stay a bit longer for tea - not planned, it was just the custom of their generation and area. I sort of like the idea of calling on people, especially after being so much by ourselves this past year.
My grandmother told me about the same system. They lived in a rural community and there was a tradition of dropping by to visit for no more than about 30 minutes around 2 in the afternoon. These women worked very hard all day and night maintaining a home and doing farm chores. 2 o clock was when the work stopped temporarily and people would pay one another visits.
I'm Gen X. We're 48 and 54. Our house is the social center of our acquaintances. It's a combination of things. But people are always stopping by around 4pm during the week. They start arriving around 11am on weekends. Everyone is so used to it now. Sometimes I get tired of it. But mostly it's nice
As someone who struggles in social situations, the concept is daunting, but I also think the rules and standards would make it easier and less scary than the free for all of social interaction today.
I have been saying this for years!!! I think that a lot of the problems we have today with people not liking to be out with other people is because we don't have any rules or at least guidelines to follow.
Yes! I would love to have some rules for things like this! It would be so much less awkward. Even if it is, it’s only for 15 minutes, then it’s it expected and acceptable for me to escape.
Haha my autism and social anxiety crave for such a system of rules and standards. Nowadays you have to figure out what each social interaction is supposed to signify and it's so exhausting
@@teodorasavoiu4664 Same with me, I have autism and I absolutely LOVE reading old etiquette books. There was a time when the rules were very well laid-out and everyone understood them.
Amy March from Little Women was doing visits when she was becoming a mature young woman. She had taken Jo with her to a visit to their aunt. Unbeknownst to them they were being looked at to see how they felt about traveling to France. Jo, who was grumpy about visiting in the first place remained grumpy in her responses while Amy quietly said how pleased and grateful she would be to have such an opportunity. Jo would lose the opportunity because of her apparent attitude while Amy received the invitation to go to France with their aunt and cousin.
I was thinking about that exact scene during this video! And how they "left cards" at the houses where the ladies were otherwise engaged or out. I'm guessing the social calls made to the families (the ones where Jo embarrassed poor Amy) originally were the strictly ceremonial kind, and the call to Aunt March was that mixture of ceremony and friendliness that Ellie mentioned in the video. Unfortunately for Jo, she did not act in a way that endeared her to their aunts. Although as Aunt March said to Aunt Carol "I told you so" when Jo said something particularly obstinate, I think she more or less expected that Amy would behave better than Jo 😬
I’ve always thought that it would be both lovely and convenient to reinstate the ‘at home’ and set aside one or two afternoons a week for friends to just drop by. You would know which days to prepare for visitors (bake cakes, clean up the house) and friends would know when it would be convenient to visit. If no-one turned up then you could eat all the cake yourself 🤣. I have heard that it was customary to sometimes fold down a particular corner of your calling card, and that this had different meanings according to which corner was folded?
So, putting a high-ranking lady's business card on your mantle is like sharing the screen-shot of a celebrity or famous influencer commenting on or liking your social media post?
When I graduated from a girls' high school in Tennessee in '61, part of our official equipment was a pack of ENGRAVED name cards - yep, intended as calling cards. That was 1961, folks.
My dad is a historian on the side, and when he gave a presentation on something related to the Victorian era, I made up the last slide as a modern calling card. Simple text and information (name and email). A bit of a nod to the era and his hobby. (And my nerdiness.) I actually got the idea from this video.
This sounds like a lot of work, honestly women didn’t just lay around doing nothing all day, networking was extremely important job. Although it sounds complicated it’s actually a very good system.
It’s a little frustrating because we still have to network pleasantly as they did back then, but we also have to do everything else. I guess not if I were in the modern aristocracy, but still. It sounds exhausting.
@@JeromeViolist yeah, and it’s exhausting because you have to pretend you are not networking while doing it. Back then it was just well accepted, nowadays people get offended if you approach them with personal interests at hand, which I find can lead more to hypocrisy because people now hace to pretend to be your real friend to get something.
@@MariaJoseRangelUwU yeah, I find this calling system very honest, it's really like old timey social media, you check on people you know and what's up with them and remind everyone of your existence, but also don't have to pretend that you're besties. Like, you don't have to be close with everyone but having small connections with all sorts of people is nice
I wonder if married women and just about all men would prefer to be at their country home so that they have less of this busy-ness to deal with. It's exhausting to even think about! It seems like it's just the young ladies who are excited to go to London, Bath, Brighton, etc.
@@soofriends well, even if they are in their country homes they still have to do all the callings. Probably men prefer to stay at home, but women also would enjoy the social season because they got to see all their friends and it was important to get good relations (maybe they were thinking “this is my chance to talk to Lady Whoever and finally get invited to that party that would elevate my social status”). Definitely young ladies (and gentlemen too) enjoyed it the most because they got to party and show off. But those are just all my speculations 😅
English is my second language, and now it just popped into my head what 'I feel called out' could sound like representing a must-have social interaction you HAVE to participate 😅😅
I would love to still pay calls on people for treats and tea! The only problem would be that I would talk to long and have to be escorted out since calls were only supposed to be short. 😂
I think this kind of social networking definitely promoted staying informed about your social circle and town. Unless you really want to know about all current news and lurk around all your friends social media, you can practically bury your head in the sand and be disconnected from everything and everyone, without even trying. If you were to make social calls, even leaving a card, would be more social interaction than some people have now. It looks to me that some of the old ways would benefit our technological culture.
These calling card and calling customs remind me of how my familiy has always handled christmas and birthdays. If a person sends you a birthday card you will send a card on their birthday. If they mada a phone call, you will make a phone call as well. If they just send a text via smartphone that is all they will get when their birthday comes around. Same goes for christmas. How to get a promotion from card to phone call? Put money or gift card into the card you are sending. Then the one receiving the card has to call you right away. Does anyone do it that way as well?
@@EllieDashwood I think with the advent of social media we are currently as a society re-writing all the rules for social reciprocity and sometimes it gets a bit confusing.
We usually respond with Xmas cards similarly. We receive a regular essay in a Xmas card from a great aunt every year, so we send an essay back. We got a rather generic Xmas card from a different aunt, so we sent her a fairly generic one back
Ok. All the rules about what to do in different scenarios sounds silly at first, but when I think about it it is actually super great. Imagining making calls would make me anxious because I'd be worried about how to handle things like someone else being there or the situation you mentioned if you were visiting a friend that was staying at someone else's house that you didn't know would honestly keep me from visiting people on some days! But having etiquette rules dictating exactly what I needed to do in those sitauations would remove that anxiety for me because I know what to do and I know that they know what I will do in that situation and I don't have to worry that they think that my reactions are weird 😅
Uggh. Traveling two hours to have a fifteen minute, obligatory visit where you have a totally artificial, performance-based conversation about nothing with someone you might not even like sounds absolutely brutal. To think that made up 50% of the lives of upper class women in that time is untenable to me. I'd have hated that life.
I actually would love this system since I don’t really like social media but spending too long with people I don’t know well exhausts me. 10-15 minute visit with some beverage sounds good time (although I would appreciate if some activity like embroidery or board games or walking with a dog sometimes would be allowed but I guess you would have to be real friends for that...).
I read once that often the host lady's butler would do something, like take up the tea cups, that would indicate it's time to move on. It varied from time to time and place to place, but there were usually signals.
There was also a certain etiquette about starting calls. For example, when Elizabeth and Mr. Darcy return to Pemberley after their honeymoon, she would be given a few weeks to take over and organize the household. Probably one of the first callers would be the local vicar and his wife. (Or sister, mother or other female relative). Then the neighbors, who are in the same social class as the Darcys - landed gentry. After their visits Mrs Darcy would be expected to makes calls in return.
I think people were “at home” on different days/ combinations of days so there would a certain window of time in which someone could visit them without any problems
@@noemi9820 That sounds fine, but does that not mean you have 7 different groups of people, and any one group could only call on members of the other six groups (e.g. a Tuesday person could call on a Wednesday person, but a Tuesday person could never call on another Tuesday person)?
@@Hfil66 I think it was also by rank. Like the highest ranking lady would have a standard at home day and the lower you were the more you had to work around other's schedules. Somehow everyone knew where they were in the pecking order.
Interesting! So if to fail to return a call is like defriending, how should we look on Miss Bingley and her sister taking three weeks to return a call to Jane Bennet in London? It seems like they could have expected Jane to assume they weren’t coming before two weeks were up and not have bothered.
That's true. Knowing this now, I would think Jane would assume Miss Bingley was never going to return the call. Although when she did, she was cold and basically stayed long enough to tell her that Mr. Bingley wasn't interested and then left. My only guess is that Miss Bingley figured Jane would finally leave town if she was told this. Caroline might've been getting tired of hiding the knowledge of Jane being there from her brother and thought this would be the push Jane needed to go home.
I agree with OkGoGirl82. I also think that Miss Bingley wanted a look at where Jane was staying so that she could bitch about her and her "relatives in trade" later on with Mrs Hurst. She waited the 3 weeks beforehand to make it obvious that she didn't want to be friends with Jane any more
It really is! I wonder sometimes if that helped them have less social anxiety about things. Since they could base decisions on rules that told them exactly what to do in different circumstances.
I can't believe I only found your channel like a week ago. You are so well informed and your videos look and sound really crisp and sweet, I really enjoy them!
My favorite of the Little House books has always been Little Town on the Prairie, because it is all about being a teenager on the frontier in the 1880s. A lot of time is spent on ladies fashion and the spread of fads through the little town. Name cards are the last fad mentioned, and Laura stresses over really wanting some of her own because all of her not-poor friends are getting them printed, but she can’t bring herself to ask Pa for the 25 cents for the smallest order size.
Yes! Little Town is one of my favourites too - I also like the Long Winter because it's so interesting to see how they all survived such extreme weather conditions. But Little Town is really interesting as well for all the reasons you said
I also thought of this when the cards were mentioned. Were Laura's name cards like calling cards? it's just that she didn't really pay calls much. I also think it's hilarious how she gives Almanzo one as a thank you for driving her to school 😂
I am barely able to network to further my career now. To know that your social networking was a significant decider of your life’s quality and progress would keep me up at night. But other than than that I would enjoy the social calls just for their own sake- to dress up nice and go for some tea and a chat. Sounds quite nice
Well, remember that social networking would have BEEN your career if you were a Victorian upper-class woman. Now, we’re expected to do perform much of the older roles of women and perform the roles of men.
In one of the Little House books, there’s a copy of Laura Ingalls Wilder’s calling card, although she called it a name card. It was before she was married, early 1880’s
It's interesting how much this still pervades British pattern (no sure on the actual British) militaries. As part of an informal briefing I received about possibly attending an Indian middle ranking officers college on exchange from the US Air Force I was told about the wife's responsibilities within the Indian Air Force contingent and how she was expected to interact and how seriously the Indian wives would take it as it impacted their husbands promotion chances still! Didn't get to go which was a shame because my wife is Indian and the college is located in one of the most beautiful places in her home state but it was a very interesting view into how much a wife's behavior and connections still impact promotions there.
That is so super interesting! I think it's fascinating how these same conventions are reused and adapted to different cultures throughout the world. I was watching a Korean Drama a while back and the wife of a military officer was doing the exact same thing! It's super interesting how many cultures simply still practice things western culture forgot they used to do. Also, that's so sad that you didn't get to go.
My father was in the U.S. navy in the early 1960’s I remember my mother getting her new engraved calling cards from the printer. So these customs may have existed a lot longer in the militaries of different countries.
I think I would have greatly enjoyed this system of calling on people. Seems less awkward way of making friends then the way we do it today. I think the biggest change I would make would be using a phone to text/call a person to see if their home.
Hi! I was wondering about boarding schools (especially girls') in late 1800's early 1900's and what they were like and what exactly they taught. I was also wondering about if they would only attend them before coming out if they were debutates, or if they would still attend the boarding schools in-between seasons. I'm having a lot of trouble finding information on this, and all your stuff is so informative.
Aw, thank you! I would have to say that they’d more than likely be done with boarding school by the time they’d come out in society. It was this idea that a girl was done, polished and refined and ready for the market when she was put out in the season. And I actually have a video on my list coming up soon on early 19th century girls school and one on late 19th century boys schools. So hopefully maybe that will be helpful!
With me as a modern age woman with adrenal issues I would not have the energy to go visiting people (wish I could) I would just send people I knew calling cards, not ever be at home, hope they just send a card back, and save up all of my strength and energy to go to things that really matter...like elegant balls lol.
Qs: In lieu of no father or uncle, could an established family friend (male) make visits to bachelors? Would eccentric old women sometimes acceptably visit bachelors on behalf of a marriageable niece? Didn't the visits intrude into tea time, which was actually an important snack time? When did this custom begin to die out?
My dad was in the Navy and to some extent, officer promotions were still very much about your social circle. So, if my parents had been the more ambitious sort, they would likely have tried to get chummy with some of my friends parents who were higher up the food chain and had dinner parties. Glad (for me) they weren’t since it might’ve made things awkward lol. I did see plenty of that kind of social call stuff back in the day though (I was raised in the 1980s/90s before cell phones and personal computers were a thing) albeit without strict rules.
How long would the 'obligation' to Call on someone continue? You call on a new neighbor, they return the call... do you have to return *that* call? Then do they return *THAT* call? Does this just go on forever? At least every week one of you has to call on the other? Or is it just the first call/return, and after that the obligation is resolved? (Obviously this is less of a problem if you like the other person and want friendship, I'm asking about the times it's just expected of you.)
That is a great question! I think it is sort of a debt/payment type system. Such as you call on them, so they owe you call. They call, so they paid their call debt. Now you're even. You don't have to call again. Until they do something like invite you to dinner. Then after that you have to call. So ultimately, if you want to keep the acquaintance going you have to do it over and over again, though not necessarily every week. And there would be moments where no calls were owed.
I remember first hearing of "calling" on people in the Betsy-Tacy books by Maud Hart Lovelace. A new family had moved into the neighborhood and they called on them by leaving their name card. I couldn't figure out that "calling" meant visiting.
Thank yoy for an informing and informtive channel. This visiting system and calling cards existed in Sweden to bur perhaps in a little more simplified form. My mother born in 1925 told me a little about it. Since she saw in growing up and in her youth. My grandmother who was the wife of a grammarschoowife when she and l/highschool teacher had to make calls to for example the headmasters wife in the school my grandfather worked in. this will have been around 1930-1950thies. In sweden apparently young unmarried women could have their own calling cards. there was also a system on ways to fold a corner of the calling card to send special messanges for example if you folded the upper right corner of the calling card that meant you had been there yourself in person (as opposite to just sent the card by mail.
It occurs to me that though some calls were likely more awkward than others, people were likely less prone to mental health issues due to isolation and loneliness. I wish the calling on a new neighbour was a thing as I moved from Canada to the UK and then again to a new area in the UK and it is the loneliness I've ever felt in my life. It seems now it is considered poor manners to "bother" your neighbours if you don't know them already, which leaves me and mine quite isolated. People are definitely friendly, but very "keep away" friendly. In North America it's all "drop by for some lemonade" or popping over for coffee... here it's let's talk awkwardly if we happen to be at the end of the drive at the same time, but that's as far as it goes. Too weird. Maybe I was born in the wrong era?
My Grandparents (1874-1967 & 1889-1967) & their contemporaries, would leave or send "plain" calling cards when wishing people a happy New Year or as a sign of condolences when someone had Passed Away, here in The Netherlands up till just after the WWII (1945). As a sort of precursor of our Christmas or Condolence cards. 5:36 Funny to see a "calling/business" card from a Tabasco merchant who had a shop in the Kalverstraat (one of the still famous shopping streets), probably located around current nr. 48, across from a tiny alley called Gapersteeg in the heart of Amsterdam. ✌🏻
Ellie, would a lady be "at home" for people she didn't mind visiting with but tell her servant that she was "not at home" for someone specific whom she didn't want to see? Or did ladies always just politely get through these short visits with even disagreeable people if they came during her "at home" hours? I only discovered your channel about a week ago & I enjoy how you chat like a knowledgeable friend instead of the professorial tone of similar channels.
Aw, thank you! Welcome to the channel. 😃 That is a great question. I think that a lady may very well be "not at home" for certain people. I think that's exactly what happens in Emma when Jane Fairfax won't see Emma for a while. Though, the provocation probably has to reach a certain level for that. Since we do see Emma having to put up with calls from Mrs Elton that she'd rather turn down.
Reminds me of later elementary school and who invited whom to playdates ans birthday parties. You could snub somebody, and they wouldn't invite you to their birthday party, but it was a calculated risk. Worked like a charm on a few occasions.
Exclusion can be a form of bullying but it’s also be a way to protect yourself. I don’t see the issue, they’re not class events so no one’s entitled to an invite. At least where I’m from! I also don’t know why you’d want a kid to spend more time around someone you think is bullying them? This is how it works where I’m from. At the parent level, hosting a party is a noteworthy expense and it’s difficult to supervise lots of children so you respect other families’ circumstances and preferences on the matter. Parents also don’t intervene in their children’s conflicts with friends because it removes the opportunity to learn. An exception might be made if it was a petty conflict that was endangering a significant friendship (and thus both easily resolved and worth resolving) or really serious. Not getting an invite might bring a conflict to the parent’s attention, but the absence of an invite isn’t an issue in itself. Any parent who complained about their kid not being invited would be seen as an incompetent parent raising a spoiled brat! Birthday invites aren’t treated like participation trophies and parents are expected to teach their kids how to handle disappointment. So a parent who complained about invites would not only be disrespecting the hosting family, but they’d likely be seen as trying make their inability to emotionally support and raise their child someone else’s problem.
From the kids’ perspective it was far more complex, it’s worthy of an essay. There was a lot of thought put into who you did/didn’t invite and we had ways to minimise and prevent hurt feelings to anyone who wasn’t invited
Great video! I like how you add those period art and talk bubbles in them. That detail about the etiquette behind Lord Osborne and Tom Musgrave visiting Emma in _The Watsons_ after their acquaintance at the ball was a nice touch too. (You don't often hear that work being mentioned often.) But they still had to make it seem that they came to visit her father, of course.. 😁 As a continuation of Victorian social networking, perhaps you could try doing a video on letter-writing in the Regency and Victorian eras as well some day - especially the Regency where they had the art of cross-writing in letters as the paper was expensive (the ability to read them should surely be considered an 'accomplishment'!), the lack of envelopes, the wax seals, how the postage system worked, how the recipient often ended up having to pay the postage fare (like being charged for incoming mobile calls) etc.. Btw, did the term " to wait on _someone_ " have two different meanings based on context back then? In Austen's works the term usually means to pay a visit, while in the Victorian works of the Brontes, the term more often seems to imply attending to someone's needs (like attending to a sickly person).
That is a great video idea! I'm definitely jotting it down. Also, I'm not sure about "to wait on someone" but it very well may have. Since "to visit" back then also meant to both pay a social call and come stay with them for the weekend. So they always had to specify if there was a chance of confusion. 😂
@@EllieDashwood Perhaps it isn't unusual for the same phrase to imply different meanings depending on the context. I still find it a bit interesting though. Just to illustrate the difference I'm talking about, here are a few examples of the two usages from the works of Austen and Charlotte Brontë. *Usage 1: 'Wait on someone' - as in paying a visit or social call* _"Mrs. Jennings, however, assured him directly, that she should not stand upon ceremony, for they were all cousins, or something like it, and she should certainly _*_wait on_*_ Mrs. John Dashwood very soon, and bring her sisters to see her."_ - *Sense & Sensibility* _"They had not long been together before Mr. Darcy told her that Bingley was also coming to _*_wait on_*_ her.."_ - *Pride & Prejudice* _“I repeat again,” added Sir Thomas, “that Thornton Lacey is the only house in the neighbourhood in which I should not be happy to _*_wait on_*_ Mr. Crawford as occupier.”_ - *Mansfield Park* _"Moreover they planned a deputation to _*_wait on_*_ me this morning, which the tailor is to head, and which, in the most religious and peaceful spirit, is to entreat me to put the accursed thing out of my tent."_ - *Shirley* *Usage 2: 'Wait on someone' - as in attending someone's needs* _"It will be much the best place for her, so near Miss Lee, and not far from the girls, and close by the housemaids, who could either of them help to dress her, you know, and take care of her clothes, for I suppose you would not think it fair to expect Ellis to _*_wait on_*_ her as well as the others."_ - *Mansfield Park* _"I will be your companion - to read to you, to walk with you, to sit with you, to _*_wait on_*_ you, to be eyes and hands to you."_ - *Jane Eyre* _“No; quite natural, and very soothing. You must have been accustomed to _*_wait on_*_ sick people, ma’am. You move about the room so softly, and you speak so quietly, and touch me so gently.”_ - *Shirley*
Ouch an spinster could get their own calling card “once everyone acknowledged that you’re an old maid and I’m sorry” :(. Hilarious:). Glad we are able to like or comment at any age. Thanks for posting!
I’ve been watching a bunch of your videos and this one was particularly fun. Learning about the calling card process was so interesting. I’ve always wanted to learn more about this process. I’d always wondered if everyone called on each other at 3 PM how did they not all miss each other. But you answer it nicely on the note about how a calling card might have a note on it of when your schedule would be for receiving and being “at home”. There’s a great example of this sort of “social call” in Cranford when it’s 3PM and they’re waiting for folks to come calling. In Pride and Prejudice, when Jane is in London is waiting weeks and not being called on by Mr. Bingley’s sister really shows how rude she is being to Jane. (Also, Bridgeton does a version after a ball too, of bachelor men going calling too.) I also read that women might bend a certain corner of their calling cards to mean different things when they left it. I’ve always wondered if that’s true. Would love a sequel to hear more on these details!
Yes for a sequel. Please. How do you behave, when you call on someone and there is already a visitor? Do you force your acquaintance on a stranger, or do you make an escape and leave a card for a hostess?
These videos are amazing. I love history and classic literature and watch lots of videos about them, but your videos are by far the best. You are so well informed and have read so many of my favourite books and reference them. Thank you so much.
I love this video! I have so many questions, and I wish you DID go on for hours! My main concern is, if you were out visiting, and everyone else was also out visiting, how could you be sure you'd actually meet up with anyone?! You touched upon that briefly, that people might say they're always home on, let's say, Monday and Wednesday. But what if Lady Very Important was ALSO always home on Monday and Wednesday? How could you visit?! In the country it probably wasn't such a big deal. Everybody knew everybody, and the social circle wasn't very large. But while in London for the season it must have been exhausting, frustrating, and confusing. I'm guessing there were more complex social rules about who went out and who stayed in, etc.
In "Persausion" Elizabeth hands out her "Miss Elliott at home" cards to the Musgroves and Capt. Wentworth et al. as she's inviting them to her evening party. So in that case she both called and left her card. Was that typical? Was it so they had the address?
Love this, as an early GenXer that lived through being unable to afford touch tone phone service to Zoom meetings for everyone I have been trying to explain this to my Millennial children. Life has not really changed, just the speed and technology that we live it through. 'Took a month to acknowledge my friend request, clearly they don't like me!' Going to have them watch this.
First, I read somewhere that there was some sort of language to having corners of one's card turned down, but I don't recall specifics. Second, one thing in the 1995 Pride and Prejudice miniseries that made me uncomfortable was the portrayal of calling etiquette in London. It appeared as if Jane showed up at the Bingleys' house unattended, and it also appeared that when Caroline Bingley finally returned the call, no pretense was made of having the footman knock on the door for her. I don't think this can be quite accurate.
Thank you for this I love learning all of this while at work. If you ever get bored and want to go in more detail on this subject I would love that video.
Hi, Ellie. I'm a new subber recovering from a surgery (doing fine!), and watching a bunch of your videos. Great distraction, very knowledgeable and presented very engagingly. Thank you. :)
Would love a more in depth video on the rules of calling! Super interesting topic, and this really helped me better envision what was going on when this topic was mentioned in books!
This is seriously fascinating!!! Please keep doing these videos. Love learning how they did things back then and how similar it actually is to our modern social media!
Yes indeed, mothers do it this day as well. My mother (and father) for instance, decided I might like to marry a very nice and evidently unmarried lawyer, or perhaps a handsome pianist as I loved music so they fixed me up with them and I never laughed harder in my life when I told them, after meeting these paragons of virtue, that the lawyer was gay and the musician had a wife in London. I did get married but I did it my way!
I’d love to hear or read more about this type of social etiquette Ellie! If you don’t want to make a video perhaps some book or other references for me. Just love your videos❣️❣️❣️
I’m currently in a playset in the Victorian era and I have been binge watching your videos. They’ve been very informative for backstory on some of my characters, thank you!
If it means I can get some free scones and tea by calling on someone, I'd be all for it!!! hehe jk. Also, there must be a Victorian word equivalent of "SMASH that like button!" CALL that like button? BUST that like button? lol
I have/had calling cards. At one point it would have my name and (phone, address etc) connections and college major. Came in handy at women’s meetings. Christians still do/did (😷 ) make calls for things such as poor health, getting a new member. Still fifteen minutes 😂
I have just found this channel and I loved it! The videos are really sweet and you seem to be really well informed about what you are talking about. Good work! Also, I think you look a bit like princess Kate Middleton, haha.
I like it! I think the in person interactions was good, even convenient that it was short, plus you could network yourself into financial prosperity. Too many lonely people nowadays contemplating offing themselves and such.
This explains a lot of things I didn't understand before. Thank you for explaining it so thoroughly. =) I don't think I'm cut out for social networking this way, and that is probably for the best since I'm a "old spinster" almost 50 and never married so I would have seriously been looked down upon. In my younger days, perhaps though. It makes a lot of sense why Mrs. Bennet made her comment about always going about and meeting new people. It would have been a lot of work.
I feel like calling cards could be the basis for a modern card game. Each player has a set of calling cards and whoever distributes them all first wins. Everyone also has a card to indicate if they are home or out visiting. If you're home and someone visits, you exchange two cards each. If no one's home, you leave one card. And if multiple people visit the same person the visitors leave one card but the lady of the house gives one to each. So it's awkward for everyone but the popular host still gets the most benefit.
We must be more elegant and restrained than those other 21st century American CZcamsrs. As a genteel lady, it is appropriate for you to gently remind us to tap the like button to show our pleasure and appreciation for this informative video.
Love your videos. Its kind of handy to have rules and cards that speak for you. While I do not want to go back to Victorian times, a few solid standards would be nice. BTW love your hairstyle. Back to current messenging. LOL.
Hi, Ellie! Could you make a video about how were foreigners seen on the XIX century? From gipsies, merchants, neighbour countries, till foreign nobles and royalty.
My parents always used to say I/we were not home to callers when we were busy. Of course my late father would also tell young men he wasn't fond of that I wasn't home to gentlemen callers. 🤣🤣
Have you ever heard of that multi-episode PBS drama about the British raj in India called JEWEL IN THE CROWN? British expats in India also did the social calling routine over there.
Yes yes yes I wish this was still a thing. Especially in this day and age when it seems like we are expected to immediately answer our phone be it text or actual call, even if it is not the optimal time. I’ve had so many people get angry at me because my phone was charging and I was away from it doing whatever. Or when you really have to use the bathroom & you can’t get a word in to say can I call you back…I’ve had people just say it’s ok, you don’t have to go I’m ok, just take it with you. I can’t be the only person who really doesn’t want to take their phone into the bathroom when you have to relieve yourself normally & to do it while talking to someone is just eww. Or when you want to tell someone they are in your thoughts, but you really aren’t up to a long conversation or aren’t up to unexpected visitors.
It’s unhygienic to bring your phone in the bathroom, I would never. It seems like some social circles have much higher expectations than others regarding replying/answering calls. Mine are mostly very relaxed!
oh, that does sound complicated. But it explains the calling scenes of some books I read a bit better. And I guess almost the same rules for the US, because the first scene I think of is little women.
I basically have called on people in a way that probably descended from the Victorian system. It was called Relief Society Visiting Teaching. It was an awkward, time consuming assignment where no one really wanted to be there. I felt obligated to allow it even if you weren't well. Everyone was fake nice. Nothing substantive was discussed. Everyone spies on and reported on each other's perceived righteousness. I'm so glad I don't do that anymore.
It sounds like Emma calling on the tenants in her neighborhood. Does sound positively Victorian with all the attendant virtue signalling. Thanks for sharing.
I told me Relief Society President not to assign me visiting teachers, or (if she had to) to assign me to people I didn't get along with. That way, at least I wouldn't have to wonder if my friends were actually friends. If (Sister X) came to talk to me, I'd know it was just an assignment and behave accordingly. Now that the church abandoned Home and Visiting Teaching for the less structured "Ministering", I have only seen my ministers twice, and I don't miss it. 😅
@@Amcsae Yeah. It makes the ending of attendance and/or friendships easier too with that strategy. Sad to have to work the system huh? I don't miss church. We are already perpetuating the past so much that I just don't care to add the Mormon version of the Jr. League from The Help into the mix.
@@melissamybubbles6139 I consider myself "less active" in the church, but not apostate. I haven't totally cut ties or anything, and I still admire certain aspects of the system. Mostly, I thought VT/HT was superficial, but did serve a purpose (knowing who to go to if you needed help, having people check in with you if there was an emergency like a big storm or power outage, so the entire congregation could be accounted for in an organized fashion...), but that Ministering kept the bad parts and got rid of that structure. I never experienced spying or particular virtue signaling. I live outside of the UT/ID core though, so maybe it's different culturally if there's a majority?
Well,.... in my culture we still have the Victorian way of calling on others, but we use Whatsapp or phone calling instead of real cards. Actually, we use real cards only for wedding or engagement parties. It is such a difficult thing to remember whom you should or you shouldn't call on. Also, if you don't have such a big social network or you aren't working hard to keep them, you won't be able to get your daughters married well :(
That putting a high-ranking lady's business card on your mantle thing reminds me of people hanging photos of themselves shaking hands with influential people in their office. I wonder, in 'Persuasion' when Sir Elliot and Elizabeth left for Bath, Anne had to go notify their neighbours. Was that seen as irresponsible behavior on Miss Elliot's side?
Calling on people is mostly not a thing any more but I was surprised that after my husband died there were so many calls to my house from acquaintances it was definitely calling on someone because of a sad event. When they stopped always turning up my autistic son said "First there was all the people. Now there's not all the people."
If we look at North and South, knowing all of this, it gets interesting, because Margaret goes and tries to do what she is obviously used to even when she moves up north. However, they seem to be surprised by her behaviour. Btw I wish this book was explored more on this channel. I know it's been mentioned before, but not as much as Jane Austen works. Same goes for Evelina, that girl's situation seems like an interesting topic.
Hello my dear Miss Dashwood, I have a question about calls and order of prominence. Who decides who is the number 1 family in a town? Obviously if there are any aristocracy then they are top tier but in Emma, for example, the Woodhouse family is known as the most prominent family in Highbury and therefore she feels it her duty to throw a dinner for Mrs Elton even though she dislikes her. Is it because their family is the wealthiest? The oldest? I would like to know what criteria is used.
That is a great question! And I think it all goes back to these same basic principles I talked about in the video “How to be a Gentleman or Lady” where the family’s overall combination of factors of gentility I talk about there would amount to their ultimate social standing in relation to others. And yes, wealth and family history had a lot to do with that! So by estimating their gentility and their neighbors based on those facts they could know who was #1. Admittedly, not all neighborhoods had so little competition as Emma’s. She’s definitely the big fish in a small pond with little competition. 😂
So when Miss Bingley took three weeks to return Jane’s call it was a really *really* big insult...
Yep! She made it as obvious as possible that she wanted nothing at all to do with Jane any more...
I suppose it would have been more insulting to send a card after 3 weeks, but my opinion is that she wanted to look at where Jane's relatives lived and where Jane was staying so she could make fun of her and bitch about her with Mrs Hurst back at home
Yep, Jane Austen did a good job at making her an unlikeable
Character. Miss bingley was pretty much the definition of snobbish.
Not me strategically calling on people when they are least likely to be home so I can avoid actually having to talk to people
That's what Willoughby did.
Same same same lol.
Whenever I visited my grandparents as a child, I would observe that people came on short visits to say hello in the afternoon and chat for a bit, or perhaps stay a bit longer for tea - not planned, it was just the custom of their generation and area. I sort of like the idea of calling on people, especially after being so much by ourselves this past year.
My grandmother told me about the same system. They lived in a rural community and there was a tradition of dropping by to visit for no more than about 30 minutes around 2 in the afternoon. These women worked very hard all day and night maintaining a home and doing farm chores. 2 o clock was when the work stopped temporarily and people would pay one another visits.
Yeh, my grandma had that tradition too! And she even lived in not an English speaking country! This custom seems to be more universal than we think
I’m happy we don’t! What a nightmare. I like to know when people are coming so I can prep the house and myself
I'm Gen X. We're 48 and 54. Our house is the social center of our acquaintances. It's a combination of things. But people are always stopping by around 4pm during the week. They start arriving around 11am on weekends. Everyone is so used to it now. Sometimes I get tired of it. But mostly it's nice
As someone who struggles in social situations, the concept is daunting, but I also think the rules and standards would make it easier and less scary than the free for all of social interaction today.
I have been saying this for years!!! I think that a lot of the problems we have today with people not liking to be out with other people is because we don't have any rules or at least guidelines to follow.
Yes! I would love to have some rules for things like this! It would be so much less awkward. Even if it is, it’s only for 15 minutes, then it’s it expected and acceptable for me to escape.
Haha my autism and social anxiety crave for such a system of rules and standards. Nowadays you have to figure out what each social interaction is supposed to signify and it's so exhausting
I would like that as well
@@teodorasavoiu4664 Same with me, I have autism and I absolutely LOVE reading old etiquette books. There was a time when the rules were very well laid-out and everyone understood them.
Amy March from Little Women was doing visits when she was becoming a mature young woman. She had taken Jo with her to a visit to their aunt. Unbeknownst to them they were being looked at to see how they felt about traveling to France. Jo, who was grumpy about visiting in the first place remained grumpy in her responses while Amy quietly said how pleased and grateful she would be to have such an opportunity. Jo would lose the opportunity because of her apparent attitude while Amy received the invitation to go to France with their aunt and cousin.
I was thinking about that exact scene during this video!
And how they "left cards" at the houses where the ladies were otherwise engaged or out.
I'm guessing the social calls made to the families (the ones where Jo embarrassed poor Amy) originally were the strictly ceremonial kind, and the call to Aunt March was that mixture of ceremony and friendliness that Ellie mentioned in the video.
Unfortunately for Jo, she did not act in a way that endeared her to their aunts.
Although as Aunt March said to Aunt Carol "I told you so" when Jo said something particularly obstinate, I think she more or less expected that Amy would behave better than Jo 😬
I’ve always thought that it would be both lovely and convenient to reinstate the ‘at home’ and set aside one or two afternoons a week for friends to just drop by. You would know which days to prepare for visitors (bake cakes, clean up the house) and friends would know when it would be convenient to visit. If no-one turned up then you could eat all the cake yourself 🤣. I have heard that it was customary to sometimes fold down a particular corner of your calling card, and that this had different meanings according to which corner was folded?
I agree. There's nothing like in person visits.
Was called "jour fixe". Usually one day in the week, where you didn't go out for calls, but you were available to receive calls.
Yes! I've heard of corner folding as well. This was an awesome video, but I would have liked some info on that little snippet. :-)
So, putting a high-ranking lady's business card on your mantle is like sharing the screen-shot of a celebrity or famous influencer commenting on or liking your social media post?
Yes
When I graduated from a girls' high school in Tennessee in '61, part of our official equipment was a pack of ENGRAVED name cards - yep, intended as calling cards. That was 1961, folks.
1960 here...yes
My dad is a historian on the side, and when he gave a presentation on something related to the Victorian era, I made up the last slide as a modern calling card. Simple text and information (name and email). A bit of a nod to the era and his hobby. (And my nerdiness.) I actually got the idea from this video.
lovely❤
„Dont bring your noisy children“ That’s a rule I really appreciate 🤣
Not sending a card was the equivalent of leaving someone on read
This sounds like a lot of work, honestly women didn’t just lay around doing nothing all day, networking was extremely important job.
Although it sounds complicated it’s actually a very good system.
It’s a little frustrating because we still have to network pleasantly as they did back then, but we also have to do everything else. I guess not if I were in the modern aristocracy, but still. It sounds exhausting.
@@JeromeViolist yeah, and it’s exhausting because you have to pretend you are not networking while doing it. Back then it was just well accepted, nowadays people get offended if you approach them with personal interests at hand, which I find can lead more to hypocrisy because people now hace to pretend to be your real friend to get something.
@@MariaJoseRangelUwU yeah, I find this calling system very honest, it's really like old timey social media, you check on people you know and what's up with them and remind everyone of your existence, but also don't have to pretend that you're besties. Like, you don't have to be close with everyone but having small connections with all sorts of people is nice
I wonder if married women and just about all men would prefer to be at their country home so that they have less of this busy-ness to deal with. It's exhausting to even think about! It seems like it's just the young ladies who are excited to go to London, Bath, Brighton, etc.
@@soofriends well, even if they are in their country homes they still have to do all the callings. Probably men prefer to stay at home, but women also would enjoy the social season because they got to see all their friends and it was important to get good relations (maybe they were thinking “this is my chance to talk to Lady Whoever and finally get invited to that party that would elevate my social status”). Definitely young ladies (and gentlemen too) enjoyed it the most because they got to party and show off.
But those are just all my speculations 😅
English is my second language, and now it just popped into my head what 'I feel called out' could sound like representing a must-have social interaction you HAVE to participate 😅😅
Calling cards are so fun! I actually collect antique calling cards so I love to learn about the etiquette associated with them.
That’s such a cool thing to collect!!!
I would love to still pay calls on people for treats and tea! The only problem would be that I would talk to long and have to be escorted out since calls were only supposed to be short. 😂
😂😂😂 You’d grab one last biscuit as they drag you out the door.
@@EllieDashwood haha, I totally would!
What would you find to talk about?
I think this kind of social networking definitely promoted staying informed about your social circle and town. Unless you really want to know about all current news and lurk around all your friends social media, you can practically bury your head in the sand and be disconnected from everything and everyone, without even trying. If you were to make social calls, even leaving a card, would be more social interaction than some people have now. It looks to me that some of the old ways would benefit our technological culture.
These calling card and calling customs remind me of how my familiy has always handled christmas and birthdays. If a person sends you a birthday card you will send a card on their birthday. If they mada a phone call, you will make a phone call as well. If they just send a text via smartphone that is all they will get when their birthday comes around. Same goes for christmas.
How to get a promotion from card to phone call? Put money or gift card into the card you are sending. Then the one receiving the card has to call you right away.
Does anyone do it that way as well?
That’s so interesting! It’s very Victorian.
My family used to do this too! Though we are almost at the no call nowerdays
@@EllieDashwood I think with the advent of social media we are currently as a society re-writing all the rules for social reciprocity and sometimes it gets a bit confusing.
Oh my god, that's such a logical and orderly system
We usually respond with Xmas cards similarly. We receive a regular essay in a Xmas card from a great aunt every year, so we send an essay back.
We got a rather generic Xmas card from a different aunt, so we sent her a fairly generic one back
Ok. All the rules about what to do in different scenarios sounds silly at first, but when I think about it it is actually super great. Imagining making calls would make me anxious because I'd be worried about how to handle things like someone else being there or the situation you mentioned if you were visiting a friend that was staying at someone else's house that you didn't know would honestly keep me from visiting people on some days! But having etiquette rules dictating exactly what I needed to do in those sitauations would remove that anxiety for me because I know what to do and I know that they know what I will do in that situation and I don't have to worry that they think that my reactions are weird 😅
I'm totally going to do this so bad, it's experimental but interesting, a good shock therapy for who has social anxiety
Uggh. Traveling two hours to have a fifteen minute, obligatory visit where you have a totally artificial, performance-based conversation about nothing with someone you might not even like sounds absolutely brutal. To think that made up 50% of the lives of upper class women in that time is untenable to me. I'd have hated that life.
I think I would enjoy making calls, at least for the most part. I would probably loose track of time though and then not get any calls.
It would be so hard to keep track of the time!!!
I actually would love this system since I don’t really like social media but spending too long with people I don’t know well exhausts me. 10-15 minute visit with some beverage sounds good time (although I would appreciate if some activity like embroidery or board games or walking with a dog sometimes would be allowed but I guess you would have to be real friends for that...).
I read once that often the host lady's butler would do something, like take up the tea cups, that would indicate it's time to move on. It varied from time to time and place to place, but there were usually signals.
@@EmpressMermaid Now THAT is helpful... why can't I have a servant to keep me on task. LOL!!
There was also a certain etiquette about starting calls.
For example, when Elizabeth and Mr. Darcy return to Pemberley after their honeymoon, she would be given a few weeks to take over and organize the household.
Probably one of the first callers would be the local vicar and his wife. (Or sister, mother or other female relative).
Then the neighbors, who are in the same social class as the Darcys - landed gentry.
After their visits Mrs Darcy would be expected to makes calls in return.
If everyone was out making social calls how was anyone at home to take a call?
I think people were “at home” on different days/ combinations of days so there would a certain window of time in which someone could visit them without any problems
@@noemi9820 That sounds fine, but does that not mean you have 7 different groups of people, and any one group could only call on members of the other six groups (e.g. a Tuesday person could call on a Wednesday person, but a Tuesday person could never call on another Tuesday person)?
@@Hfil66 that's where having two days of being at home comes in I think
@@Hfil66 I think it was also by rank. Like the highest ranking lady would have a standard at home day and the lower you were the more you had to work around other's schedules. Somehow everyone knew where they were in the pecking order.
Interesting! So if to fail to return a call is like defriending, how should we look on Miss Bingley and her sister taking three weeks to return a call to Jane Bennet in London? It seems like they could have expected Jane to assume they weren’t coming before two weeks were up and not have bothered.
That's true. Knowing this now, I would think Jane would assume Miss Bingley was never going to return the call. Although when she did, she was cold and basically stayed long enough to tell her that Mr. Bingley wasn't interested and then left. My only guess is that Miss Bingley figured Jane would finally leave town if she was told this. Caroline might've been getting tired of hiding the knowledge of Jane being there from her brother and thought this would be the push Jane needed to go home.
I agree with OkGoGirl82.
I also think that Miss Bingley wanted a look at where Jane was staying so that she could bitch about her and her "relatives in trade" later on with Mrs Hurst. She waited the 3 weeks beforehand to make it obvious that she didn't want to be friends with Jane any more
That's interesting how structured Victorian society was.
It really is! I wonder sometimes if that helped them have less social anxiety about things. Since they could base decisions on rules that told them exactly what to do in different circumstances.
I can't believe I only found your channel like a week ago. You are so well informed and your videos look and sound really crisp and sweet, I really enjoy them!
Aw! Thank you so much!!!
My favorite of the Little House books has always been Little Town on the Prairie, because it is all about being a teenager on the frontier in the 1880s. A lot of time is spent on ladies fashion and the spread of fads through the little town. Name cards are the last fad mentioned, and Laura stresses over really wanting some of her own because all of her not-poor friends are getting them printed, but she can’t bring herself to ask Pa for the 25 cents for the smallest order size.
Yes! Little Town is one of my favourites too - I also like the Long Winter because it's so interesting to see how they all survived such extreme weather conditions.
But Little Town is really interesting as well for all the reasons you said
I also thought of this when the cards were mentioned. Were Laura's name cards like calling cards? it's just that she didn't really pay calls much. I also think it's hilarious how she gives Almanzo one as a thank you for driving her to school 😂
Same! And I guess by 2024 standards, it would be like having an old phone while everyone else had the latest model.
I am barely able to network to further my career now. To know that your social networking was a significant decider of your life’s quality and progress would keep me up at night. But other than than that I would enjoy the social calls just for their own sake- to dress up nice and go for some tea and a chat. Sounds quite nice
Well, remember that social networking would have BEEN your career if you were a Victorian upper-class woman. Now, we’re expected to do perform much of the older roles of women and perform the roles of men.
It's not a career if you don't get paid for it Jerome. Women were glorified sex slaves for their husbands.
In one of the Little House books, there’s a copy of Laura Ingalls Wilder’s calling card, although she called it a name card. It was before she was married, early 1880’s
It's interesting how much this still pervades British pattern (no sure on the actual British) militaries. As part of an informal briefing I received about possibly attending an Indian middle ranking officers college on exchange from the US Air Force I was told about the wife's responsibilities within the Indian Air Force contingent and how she was expected to interact and how seriously the Indian wives would take it as it impacted their husbands promotion chances still!
Didn't get to go which was a shame because my wife is Indian and the college is located in one of the most beautiful places in her home state but it was a very interesting view into how much a wife's behavior and connections still impact promotions there.
That is so super interesting! I think it's fascinating how these same conventions are reused and adapted to different cultures throughout the world. I was watching a Korean Drama a while back and the wife of a military officer was doing the exact same thing! It's super interesting how many cultures simply still practice things western culture forgot they used to do. Also, that's so sad that you didn't get to go.
My father was in the U.S. navy in the early 1960’s I remember my mother getting her new engraved calling cards from the printer. So these customs may have existed a lot longer in the militaries of different countries.
I think I would have greatly enjoyed this system of calling on people. Seems less awkward way of making friends then the way we do it today. I think the biggest change I would make would be using a phone to text/call a person to see if their home.
For a great view into the pre-depression era in America, read the 1923 (first) edition of Emily Post's Etiquette. Quite fascinating.
Hi! I was wondering about boarding schools (especially girls') in late 1800's early 1900's and what they were like and what exactly they taught. I was also wondering about if they would only attend them before coming out if they were debutates, or if they would still attend the boarding schools in-between seasons. I'm having a lot of trouble finding information on this, and all your stuff is so informative.
Aw, thank you! I would have to say that they’d more than likely be done with boarding school by the time they’d come out in society. It was this idea that a girl was done, polished and refined and ready for the market when she was put out in the season. And I actually have a video on my list coming up soon on early 19th century girls school and one on late 19th century boys schools. So hopefully maybe that will be helpful!
With me as a modern age woman with adrenal issues I would not have the energy to go visiting people (wish I could) I would just send people I knew calling cards, not ever be at home, hope they just send a card back, and save up all of my strength and energy to go to things that really matter...like elegant balls lol.
Elegant balls deserve all the energy resources! I’m so sorry to hear about your adrenal problems. Health problems are the worst. 😞
Qs: In lieu of no father or uncle, could an established family friend (male) make visits to bachelors?
Would eccentric old women sometimes acceptably visit bachelors on behalf of a marriageable niece?
Didn't the visits intrude into tea time, which was actually an important snack time?
When did this custom begin to die out?
In the southeastern US, it’s considered polite to bring a small welcome gift or food item to welcome someone who moves into the neighborhood.
why are you getting so few views? your videos are quite interesting! i hope your channel will make it big soon. all the best!
Aw! Thank you so much!!! 😃😃😃
My dad was in the Navy and to some extent, officer promotions were still very much about your social circle. So, if my parents had been the more ambitious sort, they would likely have tried to get chummy with some of my friends parents who were higher up the food chain and had dinner parties. Glad (for me) they weren’t since it might’ve made things awkward lol. I did see plenty of that kind of social call stuff back in the day though (I was raised in the 1980s/90s before cell phones and personal computers were a thing) albeit without strict rules.
Wow, that's so interesting! It's amazing how times change but human behavior really stays the same underneath. 🧐
How long would the 'obligation' to Call on someone continue?
You call on a new neighbor, they return the call... do you have to return *that* call? Then do they return *THAT* call? Does this just go on forever? At least every week one of you has to call on the other? Or is it just the first call/return, and after that the obligation is resolved? (Obviously this is less of a problem if you like the other person and want friendship, I'm asking about the times it's just expected of you.)
That is a great question! I think it is sort of a debt/payment type system. Such as you call on them, so they owe you call. They call, so they paid their call debt. Now you're even. You don't have to call again. Until they do something like invite you to dinner. Then after that you have to call. So ultimately, if you want to keep the acquaintance going you have to do it over and over again, though not necessarily every week. And there would be moments where no calls were owed.
I remember first hearing of "calling" on people in the Betsy-Tacy books by Maud Hart Lovelace. A new family had moved into the neighborhood and they called on them by leaving their name card. I couldn't figure out that "calling" meant visiting.
Oh God, I feel for all the women of that time who had to do this but weren't actually extroverted enough for that
It does sounds like an introvert nightmare!
Thank yoy for an informing and informtive channel. This visiting system and calling cards existed in Sweden to bur perhaps in a little more simplified form.
My mother born in 1925 told me a little about it. Since she saw in growing up and in her youth. My grandmother who was the wife of a grammarschoowife when she and l/highschool teacher had to make calls to for example the headmasters wife in the school my grandfather worked in. this will have been around 1930-1950thies.
In sweden apparently young unmarried women could have their own calling cards. there was also a system on ways to fold a corner of the calling card to send special messanges for example if you folded the upper right corner of the calling card that meant you had been there yourself in person (as opposite to just sent the card by mail.
Wow! That is so cool! It’s amazing how long this system and how wide spread it was!
So interesting how much power upperclass women had in Victorian England.
A lot of this makes sense considering no phone. You can’t call someone for a quick chat, or to find out if it’s a good time to stop by.
It occurs to me that though some calls were likely more awkward than others, people were likely less prone to mental health issues due to isolation and loneliness. I wish the calling on a new neighbour was a thing as I moved from Canada to the UK and then again to a new area in the UK and it is the loneliness I've ever felt in my life. It seems now it is considered poor manners to "bother" your neighbours if you don't know them already, which leaves me and mine quite isolated. People are definitely friendly, but very "keep away" friendly. In North America it's all "drop by for some lemonade" or popping over for coffee... here it's let's talk awkwardly if we happen to be at the end of the drive at the same time, but that's as far as it goes. Too weird. Maybe I was born in the wrong era?
I often ask myself the same question:
Was I born in the wrong era?
My Grandparents (1874-1967 & 1889-1967) & their contemporaries, would leave or send "plain" calling cards when wishing people a happy New Year or as a sign of condolences when someone had Passed Away, here in The Netherlands up till just after the WWII (1945). As a sort of precursor of our Christmas or Condolence cards.
5:36 Funny to see a "calling/business" card from a Tabasco merchant who had a shop in the Kalverstraat (one of the still famous shopping streets), probably located around current nr. 48, across from a tiny alley called Gapersteeg in the heart of Amsterdam. ✌🏻
Ellie, would a lady be "at home" for people she didn't mind visiting with but tell her servant that she was "not at home" for someone specific whom she didn't want to see? Or did ladies always just politely get through these short visits with even disagreeable people if they came during her "at home" hours? I only discovered your channel about a week ago & I enjoy how you chat like a knowledgeable friend instead of the professorial tone of similar channels.
Aw, thank you! Welcome to the channel. 😃 That is a great question. I think that a lady may very well be "not at home" for certain people. I think that's exactly what happens in Emma when Jane Fairfax won't see Emma for a while. Though, the provocation probably has to reach a certain level for that. Since we do see Emma having to put up with calls from Mrs Elton that she'd rather turn down.
Reminds me of later elementary school and who invited whom to playdates ans birthday parties. You could snub somebody, and they wouldn't invite you to their birthday party, but it was a calculated risk. Worked like a charm on a few occasions.
How parents allowed this is mind boggling to me. No child should be excluded from q class social event. It's essentially a form of bullying.
Exclusion can be a form of bullying but it’s also be a way to protect yourself. I don’t see the issue, they’re not class events so no one’s entitled to an invite. At least where I’m from! I also don’t know why you’d want a kid to spend more time around someone you think is bullying them?
This is how it works where I’m from. At the parent level, hosting a party is a noteworthy expense and it’s difficult to supervise lots of children so you respect other families’ circumstances and preferences on the matter. Parents also don’t intervene in their children’s conflicts with friends because it removes the opportunity to learn. An exception might be made if it was a petty conflict that was endangering a significant friendship (and thus both easily resolved and worth resolving) or really serious. Not getting an invite might bring a conflict to the parent’s attention, but the absence of an invite isn’t an issue in itself. Any parent who complained about their kid not being invited would be seen as an incompetent parent raising a spoiled brat! Birthday invites aren’t treated like participation trophies and parents are expected to teach their kids how to handle disappointment. So a parent who complained about invites would not only be disrespecting the hosting family, but they’d likely be seen as trying make their inability to emotionally support and raise their child someone else’s problem.
From the kids’ perspective it was far more complex, it’s worthy of an essay. There was a lot of thought put into who you did/didn’t invite and we had ways to minimise and prevent hurt feelings to anyone who wasn’t invited
Great video! I like how you add those period art and talk bubbles in them. That detail about the etiquette behind Lord Osborne and Tom Musgrave visiting Emma in _The Watsons_ after their acquaintance at the ball was a nice touch too. (You don't often hear that work being mentioned often.) But they still had to make it seem that they came to visit her father, of course.. 😁
As a continuation of Victorian social networking, perhaps you could try doing a video on letter-writing in the Regency and Victorian eras as well some day - especially the Regency where they had the art of cross-writing in letters as the paper was expensive (the ability to read them should surely be considered an 'accomplishment'!), the lack of envelopes, the wax seals, how the postage system worked, how the recipient often ended up having to pay the postage fare (like being charged for incoming mobile calls) etc..
Btw, did the term " to wait on _someone_ " have two different meanings based on context back then? In Austen's works the term usually means to pay a visit, while in the Victorian works of the Brontes, the term more often seems to imply attending to someone's needs (like attending to a sickly person).
That is a great video idea! I'm definitely jotting it down. Also, I'm not sure about "to wait on someone" but it very well may have. Since "to visit" back then also meant to both pay a social call and come stay with them for the weekend. So they always had to specify if there was a chance of confusion. 😂
@@EllieDashwood Perhaps it isn't unusual for the same phrase to imply different meanings depending on the context. I still find it a bit interesting though.
Just to illustrate the difference I'm talking about, here are a few examples of the two usages from the works of Austen and Charlotte Brontë.
*Usage 1: 'Wait on someone' - as in paying a visit or social call*
_"Mrs. Jennings, however, assured him directly, that she should not stand upon ceremony, for they were all cousins, or something like it, and she should certainly _*_wait on_*_ Mrs. John Dashwood very soon, and bring her sisters to see her."_ - *Sense & Sensibility*
_"They had not long been together before Mr. Darcy told her that Bingley was also coming to _*_wait on_*_ her.."_ - *Pride & Prejudice*
_“I repeat again,” added Sir Thomas, “that Thornton Lacey is the only house in the neighbourhood in which I should not be happy to _*_wait on_*_ Mr. Crawford as occupier.”_ - *Mansfield Park*
_"Moreover they planned a deputation to _*_wait on_*_ me this morning, which the tailor is to head, and which, in the most religious and peaceful spirit, is to entreat me to put the accursed thing out of my tent."_ - *Shirley*
*Usage 2: 'Wait on someone' - as in attending someone's needs*
_"It will be much the best place for her, so near Miss Lee, and not far from the girls, and close by the housemaids, who could either of them help to dress her, you know, and take care of her clothes, for I suppose you would not think it fair to expect Ellis to _*_wait on_*_ her as well as the others."_ - *Mansfield Park*
_"I will be your companion - to read to you, to walk with you, to sit with you, to _*_wait on_*_ you, to be eyes and hands to you."_ - *Jane Eyre*
_“No; quite natural, and very soothing. You must have been accustomed to _*_wait on_*_ sick people, ma’am. You move about the room so softly, and you speak so quietly, and touch me so gently.”_ - *Shirley*
Wow! Sounds as if it’s similar etymology as lady-in-waiting...
Ouch an spinster could get their own calling card “once everyone acknowledged that you’re an old maid and I’m sorry” :(. Hilarious:). Glad we are able to like or comment at any age. Thanks for posting!
So this "calling" system was sort of like friend requests on Facebook???
Yes! So many friend requests and unfriending went down through calling or not calling!
😂😂
You’re so wonderful and eloquent 💝
Aw! Thank you!!! 😃
I’ve been watching a bunch of your videos and this one was particularly fun. Learning about the calling card process was so interesting. I’ve always wanted to learn more about this process. I’d always wondered if everyone called on each other at 3 PM how did they not all miss each other. But you answer it nicely on the note about how a calling card might have a note on it of when your schedule would be for receiving and being “at home”. There’s a great example of this sort of “social call” in Cranford when it’s 3PM and they’re waiting for folks to come calling. In Pride and Prejudice, when Jane is in London is waiting weeks and not being called on by Mr. Bingley’s sister really shows how rude she is being to Jane. (Also, Bridgeton does a version after a ball too, of bachelor men going calling too.) I also read that women might bend a certain corner of their calling cards to mean different things when they left it. I’ve always wondered if that’s true. Would love a sequel to hear more on these details!
Yes for a sequel. Please.
How do you behave, when you call on someone and there is already a visitor? Do you force your acquaintance on a stranger, or do you make an escape and leave a card for a hostess?
These videos are amazing. I love history and classic literature and watch lots of videos about them, but your videos are by far the best. You are so well informed and have read so many of my favourite books and reference them. Thank you so much.
Awww!!! Thank you so much! This means so much to me. 😃😊
I love this video! I have so many questions, and I wish you DID go on for hours!
My main concern is, if you were out visiting, and everyone else was also out visiting, how could you be sure you'd actually meet up with anyone?! You touched upon that briefly, that people might say they're always home on, let's say, Monday and Wednesday. But what if Lady Very Important was ALSO always home on Monday and Wednesday? How could you visit?!
In the country it probably wasn't such a big deal. Everybody knew everybody, and the social circle wasn't very large. But while in London for the season it must have been exhausting, frustrating, and confusing. I'm guessing there were more complex social rules about who went out and who stayed in, etc.
In "Persausion" Elizabeth hands out her "Miss Elliott at home" cards to the Musgroves and Capt. Wentworth et al. as she's inviting them to her evening party. So in that case she both called and left her card. Was that typical? Was it so they had the address?
And the fact of her having her own card makes her an "old maid" 😁
@@liudmilazadayannaya7662 I think she had her own card because her mother was dead, so she was the senior woman in the family ( like Emma).
Love this, as an early GenXer that lived through being unable to afford touch tone phone service to Zoom meetings for everyone I have been trying to explain this to my Millennial children. Life has not really changed, just the speed and technology that we live it through. 'Took a month to acknowledge my friend request, clearly they don't like me!' Going to have them watch this.
First, I read somewhere that there was some sort of language to having corners of one's card turned down, but I don't recall specifics.
Second, one thing in the 1995 Pride and Prejudice miniseries that made me uncomfortable was the portrayal of calling etiquette in London. It appeared as if Jane showed up at the Bingleys' house unattended, and it also appeared that when Caroline Bingley finally returned the call, no pretense was made of having the footman knock on the door for her. I don't think this can be quite accurate.
Thank you for this I love learning all of this while at work. If you ever get bored and want to go in more detail on this subject I would love that video.
Aw, thank you! I'm so glad you enjoyed it!!!
Omg let's bring the Victorian being at home back!
Hi, Ellie. I'm a new subber recovering from a surgery (doing fine!), and watching a bunch of your videos. Great distraction, very knowledgeable and presented very engagingly. Thank you. :)
Would love a more in depth video on the rules of calling! Super interesting topic, and this really helped me better envision what was going on when this topic was mentioned in books!
This is seriously fascinating!!! Please keep doing these videos. Love learning how they did things back then and how similar it actually is to our modern social media!
Yes indeed, mothers do it this day as well. My mother (and father) for instance, decided I might like to marry a very nice and evidently unmarried lawyer, or perhaps a handsome pianist as I loved music so they fixed me up with them and
I never laughed harder in my life when I told them, after meeting these paragons of virtue, that the lawyer was gay and the musician had a wife in London. I did get married but I did it my way!
I’d love to hear or read more about this type of social etiquette Ellie! If you don’t want to make a video perhaps some book or other references for me. Just love your videos❣️❣️❣️
I’m currently in a playset in the Victorian era and I have been binge watching your videos. They’ve been very informative for backstory on some of my characters, thank you!
If it means I can get some free scones and tea by calling on someone, I'd be all for it!!! hehe jk. Also, there must be a Victorian word equivalent of "SMASH that like button!" CALL that like button? BUST that like button? lol
😂😂😂 yes, what would be the Victorian equivalent?! I like your suggestions.
"Would you kindly tap the like button with alacrity?"
I learned so much about what’s considered appropriate, EVEN TODAY.
I have/had calling cards. At one point it would have my name and (phone, address etc) connections and college major. Came in handy at women’s meetings. Christians still do/did (😷 ) make calls for things such as poor health, getting a new member. Still fifteen minutes 😂
I have just found this channel and I loved it! The videos are really sweet and you seem to be really well informed about what you are talking about. Good work!
Also, I think you look a bit like princess Kate Middleton, haha.
Yay! Welcome to the channel!!! Also, thank you! Kate is awesome. 😃
@@EllieDashwood Thank you! I will keep watching your videos! :D
I like it! I think the in person interactions was good, even convenient that it was short, plus you could network yourself into financial prosperity. Too many lonely people nowadays contemplating offing themselves and such.
I sent you a calling card by clicking on the like button! And also did a social call, cause I wrote comment under the video :)
Very informative as always and i really like the way you explain everything!
Aw! Thank you!!!
This explains a lot of things I didn't understand before. Thank you for explaining it so thoroughly. =) I don't think I'm cut out for social networking this way, and that is probably for the best since I'm a "old spinster" almost 50 and never married so I would have seriously been looked down upon. In my younger days, perhaps though. It makes a lot of sense why Mrs. Bennet made her comment about always going about and meeting new people. It would have been a lot of work.
I’ve just started watching these, so I don’t know if you’ve gotten to this, but I’d love to see a video about calling card “code.”
I feel like calling cards could be the basis for a modern card game. Each player has a set of calling cards and whoever distributes them all first wins. Everyone also has a card to indicate if they are home or out visiting. If you're home and someone visits, you exchange two cards each. If no one's home, you leave one card. And if multiple people visit the same person the visitors leave one card but the lady of the house gives one to each. So it's awkward for everyone but the popular host still gets the most benefit.
I couldn't help but notice your cat, I'm glad he finally settled down, I was being distracted by his cuteness!
It's like those co-workers you only know through emails. They're the best co-workers compared to the ones who want to chat while your "not busy".
In the South even in the 1950s & 1960s we "went calling" I had ny own calling cards when I turned 16.
As an introvert, even if forced, the idea of people having to leave me alone after 10-15 minutes max sounds really appealing 😂
We must be more elegant and restrained than those other 21st century American CZcamsrs. As a genteel lady, it is appropriate for you to gently remind us to tap the like button to show our pleasure and appreciation for this informative video.
You know it's hilarious, I've don't this since i was a kid, even the cards!! Lol i love visiting quite alot
Great content! I love the pup in the background 💕
😃😃😊😊
Just discovered your channel and now i’m on a binge! I love your content!
Love your videos. Its kind of handy to have rules and cards that speak for you. While I do not want to go back to Victorian times, a few solid standards would be nice.
BTW love your hairstyle. Back to current messenging. LOL.
Hi, Ellie! Could you make a video about how were foreigners seen on the XIX century? From gipsies, merchants, neighbour countries, till foreign nobles and royalty.
Great video - thorough explanation of all the aspects of calling cards - Thank you!
My parents always used to say I/we were not home to callers when we were busy. Of course my late father would also tell young men he wasn't fond of that I wasn't home to gentlemen callers. 🤣🤣
Have you ever heard of that multi-episode PBS drama about the British raj in India called JEWEL IN THE CROWN?
British expats in India also did the social calling routine over there.
Yes yes yes I wish this was still a thing. Especially in this day and age when it seems like we are expected to immediately answer our phone be it text or actual call, even if it is not the optimal time. I’ve had so many people get angry at me because my phone was charging and I was away from it doing whatever. Or when you really have to use the bathroom & you can’t get a word in to say can I call you back…I’ve had people just say it’s ok, you don’t have to go I’m ok, just take it with you. I can’t be the only person who really doesn’t want to take their phone into the bathroom when you have to relieve yourself normally & to do it while talking to someone is just eww. Or when you want to tell someone they are in your thoughts, but you really aren’t up to a long conversation or aren’t up to unexpected visitors.
It’s unhygienic to bring your phone in the bathroom, I would never. It seems like some social circles have much higher expectations than others regarding replying/answering calls. Mine are mostly very relaxed!
Oh I love that idea at least you’d know where you actually stand.
oh, that does sound complicated. But it explains the calling scenes of some books I read a bit better. And I guess almost the same rules for the US, because the first scene I think of is little women.
Your videos are so detailed well researched. Thank you!
And that's why we "call" someone on the phone! Love the English language.
All this sounds exhausting!!! Great vid!
At a funeral here where I live we also leave sole sort of calling card, basically it means that we are thinking of the persons family .
We call them sympathy cards where I’m from!
I basically have called on people in a way that probably descended from the
Victorian system. It was called Relief Society Visiting Teaching. It was an awkward, time consuming assignment where no one really wanted to be there. I felt obligated to allow it even if you weren't well. Everyone was fake nice. Nothing substantive was discussed. Everyone spies on and reported on each other's perceived righteousness. I'm so glad I don't do that anymore.
That sounds awful! I’m so sorry.
It sounds like Emma calling on the tenants in her neighborhood. Does sound positively Victorian with all the attendant virtue signalling. Thanks for sharing.
I told me Relief Society President not to assign me visiting teachers, or (if she had to) to assign me to people I didn't get along with. That way, at least I wouldn't have to wonder if my friends were actually friends. If (Sister X) came to talk to me, I'd know it was just an assignment and behave accordingly. Now that the church abandoned Home and Visiting Teaching for the less structured "Ministering", I have only seen my ministers twice, and I don't miss it. 😅
@@Amcsae Yeah. It makes the ending of attendance and/or friendships easier too with that strategy. Sad to have to work the system huh? I don't miss church. We are already perpetuating the past so much that I just don't care to add the Mormon version of the Jr. League from The Help into the mix.
@@melissamybubbles6139 I consider myself "less active" in the church, but not apostate. I haven't totally cut ties or anything, and I still admire certain aspects of the system.
Mostly, I thought VT/HT was superficial, but did serve a purpose (knowing who to go to if you needed help, having people check in with you if there was an emergency like a big storm or power outage, so the entire congregation could be accounted for in an organized fashion...), but that Ministering kept the bad parts and got rid of that structure.
I never experienced spying or particular virtue signaling. I live outside of the UT/ID core though, so maybe it's different culturally if there's a majority?
Well,.... in my culture we still have the Victorian way of calling on others, but we use Whatsapp or phone calling instead of real cards. Actually, we use real cards only for wedding or engagement parties. It is such a difficult thing to remember whom you should or you shouldn't call on. Also, if you don't have such a big social network or you aren't working hard to keep them, you won't be able to get your daughters married well :(
And I thought modern social rules were hard to navigate. Phew! That said, I do like the concept of normalizing going around and visiting your friends.
That putting a high-ranking lady's business card on your mantle thing reminds me of people hanging photos of themselves shaking hands with influential people in their office.
I wonder, in 'Persuasion' when Sir Elliot and Elizabeth left for Bath, Anne had to go notify their neighbours. Was that seen as irresponsible behavior on Miss Elliot's side?
Calling on people is mostly not a thing any more but I was surprised that after my husband died there were so many calls to my house from acquaintances it was definitely calling on someone because of a sad event. When they stopped always turning up my autistic son said "First there was all the people. Now there's not all the people."
If we look at North and South, knowing all of this, it gets interesting, because Margaret goes and tries to do what she is obviously used to even when she moves up north. However, they seem to be surprised by her behaviour.
Btw I wish this book was explored more on this channel. I know it's been mentioned before, but not as much as Jane Austen works.
Same goes for Evelina, that girl's situation seems like an interesting topic.
Hello my dear Miss Dashwood, I have a question about calls and order of prominence. Who decides who is the number 1 family in a town? Obviously if there are any aristocracy then they are top tier but in Emma, for example, the Woodhouse family is known as the most prominent family in Highbury and therefore she feels it her duty to throw a dinner for Mrs Elton even though she dislikes her. Is it because their family is the wealthiest? The oldest? I would like to know what criteria is used.
That is a great question! And I think it all goes back to these same basic principles I talked about in the video “How to be a Gentleman or Lady” where the family’s overall combination of factors of gentility I talk about there would amount to their ultimate social standing in relation to others. And yes, wealth and family history had a lot to do with that! So by estimating their gentility and their neighbors based on those facts they could know who was #1. Admittedly, not all neighborhoods had so little competition as Emma’s. She’s definitely the big fish in a small pond with little competition. 😂