Differences between American & Japanese music (chords progression example)
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- čas přidán 22. 08. 2024
- A sharing of Marty Friedman in J-POP Phenomena In-depth interview Music Matters 2012.
All credits reserved for MM12.
For educational purpose only
Not only that, but nearly every Japanese song has an incredible bass line. The majority of western pop music has the bass merely following the root notes.
i agree on that. That's probably the main reason why i listen to so much j-pop nowadays.
totally agreed. as a bass player, ive been studying Jpop and Jrock a lot recently. it just seems so much less lazy than pop over here.
That's why I don't listen to pop. Still Marty Friedman isn't a pop artist either, he is a rock/metal guitarist, and a freaking good one I tell ya!
man you're soo fucking right I say that all the time and no one undestand it
YES. Completely agree. I can't stand how boring the bass lines in most American pop music is.
CHORDS + Analysis (edited with help of many in the comments)
the western chord progression is the standard: C , G, Am, F (I, V, VIm, IV)
- The Beatles - Let it be, Bob Marley - No woman no cry, Journey - Dont stop believing etc...
the japanese chord progression is a collection of chord changes originating from jazz standards between the 1920's-60:
C, Esus, E, Am - Gm7, C7, Bm7b5, E - Am, D7, Dm7, Fm7
C, Esus, E, Am - Gm7, C7, Bm7b5, E - Am, D7, Dm7, Fm7
I, IIIsus, III, vim7 - vm7, I7, viim7b5, III, vim , II7, iim7, ivm7
It is collection of unresolved IIm , V, I's - Modulating into different keys
E to AM is a V I, moving the key to Amin,
Gm7 to C7 is a II V, implying arriving at the key of F maj but deceptively landing on Bm7b5
Bm7b5 to E to Am is an minor IIm V I to the key of Amin
Am to D7 implies G maj then fall back to Fmaj7 the IV chord and ends with the classic minor IV chord like Radiohead - creep
Yes. They haven't abandoned modal interchange, key changes, modulation, chord substitution and inversions in their music unlike most western music.
THANK YOU FOR THIS!!!!
super insightful, thank you!
I like your funny words, magic man
Could be wrong but isn’t the Am/e actually Esus4 (resolving to E)?
4 chord progression (1:33): yawn, what was the story in this song again?
Arigatou (2:05): ahhh, I recall memories of my friends, my family, and my respected teachers. Through my life I truly am thankful and see the meaning of the song.
HOLY SHIT I FELT THAT AS WELL.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT BECAUSE DAMN IT HITS RIGHT IN THE FEELS
WHOA TALK ABOUT THE GOOSEBUMPS THO
I remembered K-ON
@@imandanarahimaswara5185 I was listening to U & I and was led back here. I haven’t watched this in a while.
One of the most notable differences between Japanese and American music (in terms of chord structure) is that Japanese musicians haven't abandoned jazz and revere it as godlike, not "boring old people music" like we often view it as here in America. The outside looking in is always an interesting perspective, and the Japanese people have always shown great respect for America's first great original art form. The fusion of Japanese and American musical aesthetics has brought a new beautiful art form in Japan.
+J-MUSIC Ensemble I've almost always appreciated the jazz scales. I just came up with a progression that I'm writing some lead over in the D Bebop Major scale. Such an awesome scale; just the D Major scale with the A# included
+The Pink Warrior What are you talking about? I think he's not being bias at all and I believe he's telling the truth. How many people nowadays have a taste to classical or jazz no matter who they are? People nowadays prefer shitty music than brilliant music.(Shitty music -------> you already know who artists does those, I'm not saying Justin Bieber's most known song, Baby, and Rebecca Black's Friday or Taylor Swift's Bad Blood who was once good now goes what any other pop artist sound like) How many people out there have been playing tracks from jazz and classical masterpiece through an audio? How many jazz and classical musicians are there compared to pop musicians? How many new generations of Classicals and Jazz do reach the minorities' and the children's attention? How many Grammy awardees these days don't usually use a guitar or a piano anymore in fact always use a computer to make music out of it? How many songs from the most popular artists these days knows what a minor 6th, minor 7th, minor 9th, +add2, +add3, +add4, etc? Apparently, what chords have been usually utilized is the Major, Minor, the sustained and the 5th only.
To be honest good and sensible music in America is gradually declining through time, being replaced by those sexual, violent or stupid songs. Fortunately, musicians are still finding ways to oppose those superficial art. Sadly, majority of the people in the world doesn't care to lyrics and instruments anymore as long as it's catchy and easily absorbed. You know, these days, a song with only a catchy melody and non-changing beat can rank to number one chart. How about that?
I appreciate the discussion! I see both your points, and all I was meaning to point out was that many people (namely musicians, where this music comes from) nowadays are not aware of America's popular musical history, and therefore are left with a lack of a certain amount of depth, by default. Of course, all modern American pop music has roots in jazz; however, there is a lack of definitive understanding of this music across the board.
In Japan, most people actually regard jazz as being cool - they love the American original jazz aesthetic, and praise new musicians who come over there playing straight ahead music. They know who Art Blakey, John Coltrane, Miles Davis, Jimmy Smith, etc. are, and know the instruments associated with the music.
In America, we've moved beyond jazz being the popular music (naturally, as a progression of time would have it), and new explorations by younger musicians from different generations have pushed aside the jazz aesthetic for more "relevant" cultural themes. The point is, you'd be surprised how many people pass me by on the street in NYC and think my saxophone is a camera or a guitar (because that's all that's relevant nowadays).
I'm not saying that the progression is bad - I mean, I love electronic music and J-Rock/J-Pop - I'm just saying that there's a difference between being born in a country where Louis Armstrong's music is associated with old movies vs. growing up in a country where Louis Armstrong's music is exotic and different. In Japan, this has been a consistent aesthetic since the 1930s.
Peace and unity, everyone!
I think jazz-style is sort of making a comeback, finally, in America. Future bass is kind of stepping up to become the new big thing, and that's deeply rooted in maj7 and 9th chords, and it's hitting the radio now that Flume has gotten popular, and is even working its way into some of Justin Bieber's new stuff. Bit of a tangent, but I used to be the kind of edge-lord who hated him too without actually listening, but goddammit some of the songs on Purpose are so fucking good because they use pretty obscure chords or genre styles like future bass and chill trap stuff. Good shit, man.
Jazz isn't making a comeback in a way in the USA. I'm a huge Jazz fan but it's still as underground as it has been, Until you start hearing jazz progressions in the top 40 then jazz isn't "coming back" into pop music. Future Bass ins't "the next big thing" And have a maj7 or 9th isn't jazz. Those are funk chords.
I feel like in most songs people try to spread a message but in japanese songs they have more emotion and its kinda like the artist is telling a story. To me it's really pretty.
that really true bro
Exactly what I was looking for! I've heard such chords in tons of Japanese songs and every time there's a chord change like these it gives me goosebumps!
Yess in anime and I even notice it in Chinese and Korean music. It's so underrated and overlooked topic.
@@danny55531 It is indeed! Reminds me a lot of Kana-Boon and other Japanese bands. You actually feel the emotions when you hear the chords.
Yeah immediately when I heard it, I remembered a lot of Japanese songs. Jazz is expanded to every genre in Japan, it's very interesting.
it's called " syncop " for the information, and I agrre with you
you care to share some such songs you like?
im not a musician, but what he played around 2:17 ~ 2:19 , I _felt_ that
Same
The best musicians and composers can make music enjoyable, even for non-musicians😉
Those chords are the main reason I get so hooked with anime songs in general. My first encounter with that progression is SAO ending song "Yume Sekai".
Minor 2-5-1 progression very commonly seen in jazz
Ikr
I was surprised with how well I connected with those chords. It's really weird, because I grew up on psychedelic rock and jazz. I also played a ton of japanese video games though like mega man and pokemon and just nintendo stuff in general. So I think the exposure to japanese music through those games afeected me more than I may have thought.
+turtle hermit i actually think that japanese music has a special charm that we (the western people xD) really enjoy because it's really fresh... it's like the first time you hear a band when you're a kid, it feels diferent and you want more...
Well also there's a lot of British soft-rock influence
+Nimlouth It's because musically (i.e. pitch-material-wise) there's more substance.
+Pakken11 lol I thought I was the only one who was aware of that. Japanese music is harmonically heavy, whereas here in the west we have a focus more on dynamics and timbre (see EDM music, Pop songs and even in soundtracks, where the emphasis is in the way orchestra or other instruments make sonic impact rather than the harmony they make).
The chord progressions are all over Japanese vgm!
the Japanese has a very jazzy flavor
Hey Joe! It's been a while! How've you been?
YellowBirb yooo he wrote that comment 3 years ago
Scumbag don’t you know joe?
never eaten human but I'm curious as to what jazz tastes like
@@HarrisTheHypnotist joe mama
This is why I listen to more J-Pop artist then western artist
I get called a weeb a lot but I LOVE J-Pop songs because their instrumental work is amazing
@The Fantom Convoy I agree, especially becuase weeb is a insult but people used it in a lot of contexts that it lost its meaning
I really don’t get that. Japan has one of the largest (If not largest. I forget if they’re behind the U.S. or not) music industry in the world. I really hate how when you hear of Japan in America, a lot of people will automatically think of anime and shit. Their industry has tons of talented artists and there should be no shame in being interested in their work.
@@zdubbs7609 Exactly, a very good example is LiSA, like yeah she is one of the most recognized Anime artists but her songs that aren't anime are truly Amazing, examples are Propaganda and Tsumibito. Those two songs are some of my favorites from LiSA. Another example is UVERworld
J-Rock
@@htxthewild5553 not only that, most of my favorite j-rock songs come from anime and some of them I haven't even watched them. There are really "Musically" interesting openings or endings and I'm always excited to find out new ones
What I find to be a huge difference between japanese and american pop music is mode mixture, or the use of 'borrowed' chords. In a major key, the diatonic triad built on the 4th scale degree of said key will have a major tonality, but if you take the middle note of this chord (that would be la in solfege) and move it down one half step, you're now borrowing the minor IV chord from the minor key and it adds a colorful twist to a chord progression. The progression he played from arigato had plenty of mode mixture and its one of the reasons I find j-pop to be a lot more interesting to listen to than american pop
thanks, that was insightful
There's only 1 difference. American music blatantly talks about sex. "Can you know my whistle baby." Japanese music doesn't blatantly talk about sex.
no, plenty of japanese songs talk blatantly about sex. and i love it when they do. But there are so many musical differences between them such as use of pentatonic scales in vocal melody writing, walking bass lines and such
Harmonic Chromaticism as a whole, as in also Applied Chords (Dominant/Leading Tone), not just Modal Mixture.
And apparently that's the kind of music I like the most.
@@boxdog9474 What's so bad with songs about sex? People like to have sex. People make songs about drugs and cannibalism or shit but somehow sex is taboo.
this is why I decided to take my music over to Japan like he did. The mainstream pop over here is just far more receptive to things that in Australia or US would consider "strange" or "not accessible"
I hope one to also become part of the Japanese music industry and culture
I guess that explains why you never uploaded any of it to your channel. It's so "strange" or "not accessible" that its literally unavailable.
@@ifiwasyouiwouldntbe That's not a point. I've had the same idea to take my music to Japan because I think they're more complex in terms of harmony, progressions and modulation.
That being "strange" or "not accessible" doesn't have anything to do with him not uploading videos on his channel. For instance I uploaded some of my songs on my channel, yet I still got very few views. That's not them being not accessible, but it's people not being curious of listening to something new, or it's the artist not doing efficient work in promotion. Still, if you're not famous you're never gonna get enough attention.
+Mat Teo
That *is* a point, its just not one you agree with. I personally can't stand Japanophiles who act like they are above everyone else. They seem to mythologize the eastern ear, as though western people don't already have tone rows or jazz fusion or many other sorts of "outside the scale" forms of music.
But because western people don't "get" *their* music, somehow the polite Japanese people not telling you it sucks means you are going to be a number one charting popstar. When in reality their pop music is just as trash as any other nations form of pop music.
As far as this guy he is a prime example from what I can see, and he says hes taken his music over there because western people don't "get" it (contrarily australia already has a large asian population). But then his channel shows no signs of success or evidence of a musical product, which leads me to believe the Japanese didn't "get" it either and so there is nothing to show with any form of pride. So he is in fact just resentful to his homeland.
@@ifiwasyouiwouldntbe In fact yes, Japanese chord progressions take a lot of western jazz music.
I understand your point of view now, and on second thoughts you might be right, but I don't agree with the uploads. I mean, I know that if you are successful you would want to share it on the internet, but you may also decide that you don't want to. Or maybe you want to use a different channel with a different name.
What do you think?
That emotive journey that Japanese music employs in their progressions is something I'll never get tired of. Watching this in 2022 and it still resonates perfectly. This video reminded me of the feeling I got when I heard tricot's (トリコ) "Night monster" on their Jodeki album.
i’m learning potage on guitar and the chords after the main riff feel like they come from his example of japanese progressions
no wonder anime openings tend to be somewhat 'emotional'.
Right on point
it was indeed very enriching what Marty was sharing. He was case-studying 6 other J-Pop artistes in the interview too. CZcams muted the rest of the videos I tried to upload.
I am Japanese. I compose music as a hobby, and there is one thing I often keep in mind when doing so. The idea is to decide on a chord that will be the endpoint, and then proceed to make as many natural choices as possible to reach that point. I think this may have something to do with the fact that there are so many transitional notes in Japanese music.
If anyone watch anime here, the first 2 bar intro in the Opening theme of Sailor Moon (1 b2 b5 4 2 b3 7 #6) is a very typical Japanese scale. And also, in writing melody, many Japanese pop/rock I have been listening to from the last 2 decades tend to use a lot of minor 3rd and minor 6th leaps. Just a thought...
lentostinato what the hell is a sharp six chord
@@adriancruz2822 it's a melody smarty pants
Xolin11 okay then what then hell is a sharp #6 scale degree?
He means an augmented sixth, an interval of 10 semitones.
+lentostinato Interesting points. Curiously there's a nice counterpoint melody at the end of that Sailor Moon OP, I found that interesting because it shows how japanese have a focus on harmony, even if it is a J-Pop anime song they don't take their job for granted so they experiment a lot.
When i first heard him play the western chord progression, i was like “meh...”, but when he played the japanese chord progression, it was so mindblowing!
Western chord progression is super basic. The most standard one is known as vi-ii-V-I. It's a simple path to a chord that sounds almost like a root, and from there to the root chord. You start in a place that sounds unstable, and move naturally towards the stable-sounding root. There are more complex variations of this, but the principle is the same.
In comparison, the Japanese chord progression laid out here takes all sorts of side paths. He could simply move towards the root, but suddenly something else happens. And another thing. It's like an entire story told in only the chords. It side-tracks, comes back on its path, then gets side-tracked again.
@@Marco_Onyxheart You'll also hear songs written like this in musical theatre, which makes sense for a very narrative style
Anime weeb bias
Weeb bias. American's make the best music in the world.
Mind blowing? I wish I was like you, easily amused
I like this , I notice how the Japanese love to add more chords to their music . The rhythms are always interesting
I agreed
I believe chords are presented in this order for the Japanese progression
C | Esus4 E | Am | Gm7 C | Bm7b5 E7 | Am D9 | Dm7 | Dm7b5/G | repeat?
I analyzed with ear, so I'm not 100 percent certain, but it should be the gist of it. Correct me if I'm wrong.
You're very close, but I heard a few things differently.
Imo it should be something like C | Esus4 E | Am Gbm | Gm7 C | F6 E7 | Am Am/F# | Dm7 | Dm7b5/F G |
The Gbm was very short. Also I'm not a 100% sure, about the F6 but it's defo a kind of IV chord, perhaps a II.
@@rdezoveelste I mean, and F6 is a Dm7 in second inversion, so it's a tricky chord in here, this is really close tho
@@rdezoveelste I think OP was closer to what the guy played from what I am hearing. You're correct about Gbm (I think you meant to say Abm) that he plays it in the second pass of the 2 iterations. As for F6, he plays barre chord from the 5th fret, which implies Dm7.
C | Am7 Esus4 | Am7 Abm7 | Gm7 C7 | Bm7b5 E7 | Am7 D2/F# | Dm7 | Fm F/G | CM7
American pop stars be like "Non diatonic chords? Extensions? What are those?" Japan be like:
What the, you are here lmao
They do this transitions a lot in R&B, Neo-Soul, Gospel, and (sometimes) hip-hop.
I-vii-iii-vi-V-I-IV-iii-vi-*_II_*-*_iv_*
Never Would've Made It by Marvin Sapp carries these same progressions.
+Chordstruck Pony /)
I appreciate the breakdown
Oh wow, I'd never keep listening to that song if I played it a day ago. Now that I notice the chord progression, it is a really good track.
I think that the most important thing in J-Pop and similar is the ii-v-i progression. I would say it's the signature from it
Exactly!! When I heard what he played I did not think Japanese. I thought Black music. It sounded black honestly. So much soul and rhythm.
Kyohei Tsutsumi, the godfather of J-POP, once said ”Rick Astley’s first album is filled with the sounds that Japanese people like”.
That is basically the Ōdō shinkō is : IV△7-V7-iii7-vi progression
I always like music when listening to it is like a journey to me. I guess this is why i prefer Japanese music. Their choices of melodies and chord progressions always captivates me and take me on the journey and the emotions the song wants to communicate to me.
C E7sus4 E Am Gm7 C
Bm7b5 E Am D/F#
Dm7 Fm7 G9sus4
C E7sus4 E Am G#m7 Gm7 C
Bm7b5 E Am Am/F#
Dm7 Dm Fm7 G9sus4 C
I actually don't know the real chord name for "Am/F#". I just called it that because from Am you place your middle finger on the bass note F# on the E string.
Anyways those are the chords. Just find the timing for them and you're set!
@Dark of the knight nope
@@OlePistolCooperation it's f#dim it's a diminished chord with the minor 7th
F#m7b5?
I love Japanese music it flows so much better.
westerners = basic bitches
It's very melodic.
Spank me daddy
well duh, you're a weeb
@@stephenwyatt88 True. And I think it's their language that allows it. Japanese just offers more flexibility in terms of syllables and intonation than English.
When he played the Japanese example it immediately made me reminisce about so many video game ending themes
The guy on the right is a true enjoyer, I wanna be like him. Just sit, enjoy the show, and smile.
yea japanese chord progressions have alot of jazz inspired harmony. its just very expressive, its the best.
I‘m Japanese.
In my opinion, Japanese isn’t as good as at rhythms and rhymes than English.
To express lyrics dramatically, Japanese chord progressions has been constructed complexly.
Yeah. Japan has more interesting melodies, west is king of rhythm for the most part. EXCEPT city pop. That shit owns everything.
But Japanese singers are actually singing most of the times instead howling and groaning.
But I believe that that is exactly what makes Japanese better.
@@trollingisasport city pop is literally a cover of black American music from the 70s and 80s. Haha
@@sirmiluch6856 are you listening to music, or mating calls?
I would just like to mention that as a lover of both music and videogames, this harmony instantly transported me to my childhood, as it is the exact chord progression that is used for the Littleroot town theme, of pokemon ruby/sapphire/emerald
I got into Japanese pop and rock because it sounded so unique and exciting. Now i can finally put my finger on why
2:00 これをきっかけに、素晴らしい歌、いきものがかりの「ありがとう」に出会うことができました。
ありがとう。
歌詞もきれいですよね！
空気を読まずに日本語で解説します。マーティが演奏したトニックから始まりマイナーが2と3に入り4でディミニッシュになるコードはJPOPで使われた典型であり情緒的浮遊感を演出するも物です。しかしメロディーはメジャー・スケールでコードマイナーが維持される謎の構造になっている。ユーロビートの説明としてメロデーはメジャー・マイナー関係なくFとB以外のメロデーが主に使われていてマイナー感が感じられない構造となっているので日本人に好まれる傾向に有りイニシャルDやパラパラとかに採用された楽曲がその理由です。結論はマイナースケールのコードに捕らわれずメロデーがメジャーである。詳しく知りたければ弦楽器の大琴が大陸で12音階日本で13音階に別れた経緯で分かるよ。ギターの演奏ではメロデーは引けない為。
ZuoCruz Am/F# is a half diminished F# chord. F#m7b5 if you want. The A in Am is the minor third in the F#m7b5, the C becomes the diminished fifth and the E becomes the minor seventh. The chord usually works as a II function in minor chord progressions: For example: F#m7b5 (ii) - H7 (V) - Em (i)
But in this instance it can also serve a different purpose. The Am can be the upper triad in a D9/F# chord that's played with the third(F#) as the bass note. It can also be a Am in dorian mode using the 6th note as the bass note to underline the fact that you are in dorian mode.
So it can be a lot of things, depending on the situation it's being used in.
In 2022 I am reading up on musical chord progression, and the fusion/synthesis of Western and Eastern pop music. I can understand what Marty tried to replicate here, in this case, the famous 4-chord progression (thanks Axis of Awesome for introducing me to that spiel about how most Top 10 Billboard songs are always done in the same chord progression) versus the complex chord progression found in many Japanese music, both mainstream and rock.
I have no objections to critique of both Western and Eastern music styles (Japanese language is too restrictive in expressing emotions, while Western music are replicable to death). Else, how we are going to progress artistically as individuals?
yeah since i grew up with pop i also found some Japanese music when i was younger and became interested automatically because it sounded different and had these different chords that just just sounded so cool ,,,
i get tired of the pop American chord progressions yknow
I've been more into interesting chord progressions when writing music, and I listen mainly to Japanese music, so now I finally completely understand why I compose the way I do :)
2:06 THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR
so true. everything from metal, pop, punk and even the super mario music revolves around some sort of jazz influenced turnaround. so many interesting twists
At that point, the word jazz, instead of defining a music genre, just defines an advanced level of musical complexity or maturity applied to any genre.
Since I was a kid I could always Japanese music always had some kind of extra-ambition in song structuring which was absent in most western popular music. Almost no japanese song I've heard felt lazy as a composition, not even the most minimalist songs, no matter if I even liked the song or not.
It's no suprise how deeply Marty Friedman understands these core differences and knows how to explain it crystal clear, because you could hear how complicated, yet stylish his playing and compositions are in his classic recordings.
What I like about J-Pop is that the lyrics are more varied and less repetitive.
when I think of Japanese music, I think of Whitney Houston chord progressions and melodies / Black R&B + Soul from the 70s-90s (which is founded in Jazz too) and this sort of explains why!!
Japanese chord progressions are my favorite when I play bass because they can sound really happy and filled with a excited emotion or they can be very meloncholy and gives you a beautiful sound. I definitely prefer Japanese bass lines to western.
You know it's all western jazz and funk influence. Sadly western pop abandoned those mostly.
Same here,im a bass player
Japanese chord progressions seem to come from Jazz and Gospel-style music. And Classical, too, really.
@@markbowen8461 That's right.
In Japan, pop musicians in the 1990s attempted to fuse essences from many genres, mainly black music, such as jazz, gospel, R&B and bossa nova, and these became mainstream.
This is what is known as city pop.
The influence of city pop also extended to idol music and J-rock, and it became common for even unknown indie musicians to devise chord progressions.
YES! I like the japanese progression's sound better, whatever it is.. gosh
I wanted to see the whole thing but is hard to find. It's hilarious how there are people that think that they know better than Marty fucking Friedman about this subject XD. It seems like they got butthurt or something.
He actually knows what his talking about kids. He lives in Japan and has produced and made music for Japanese artists all these years. The most common thing in western music is the 4 chord progression that he played, get over it.
He is not saying that those chords are Japanese, fools, What he is saying is that is much more common to find them in many styles of Japanese music, including the most aggressive Metal, Another thing that he didn't say but I know for sure is that when it comes to harmony the Japanese composers like to clean their asses with the Counterpoint and Harmony theories XD, You can research Nobuo Uematsu's work if you want a clear example of this.
FF music is more crazy than the progression friedman showed us. Uematsu is a genius in terms of music.
+ShagStars Productions that's quite true. Seymour Battle for example sounds more like an extreme jazz fusion rock band music than a simple battle theme. The amount of solos, strange harmony and experimentation is incredible. You can hear those qualities in a lot of vgm japanese composers as well, for example ZUN's from Touhou fame, although he is a more conservative composer he often put crazy solos (specially piano ones) and rhythmic experimentations, like in Native Faith for example.
This immediately reminded me of my favorite Japanese song _Boku Wa Sekkusu Daisuki_ , a beautiful song about a man's love and his desire to get love back. This chord progression really does find its way into most Japanese music and it's great to see how that thread connects the sound across that culture.
Best Joji song ngl
Joji doesn't make japanese sounding song. it's more like American song with Japanese lyrics.
@@em8537 who's this Joji? This song is by a nice fellow named _ピンクのやつ._
@@billbill6094yes pink guy.
" I love sex" 😂😂
This reminds me of japanese advertising; they often compose a lot of jingles for their ads and many of them sound like this, very joyful but with a jazzy feel and really complex basslines. That's a way to describe it: it's an harmonic journey through the chords, not just circles like pop western music.
so I was kinda curious which "Arigatou" song he was plaing (since there's so many japanese song titled "Arigatou"), but it turned out that it was Ikimonogakari's Arigatou which I listened to since forever wkwkwwkkw
i’m already in love with that Japanese chord progression wow
*An absolutely fascinating gem. Where can I learn more about this kind of thing?*
this is the only segment of the whole interview which he plays the guitar live. It is also the only segment he talked about the differences in composition. The rest of the videos are just Japanese MTVs of the artistes which he wanted to highlight about their uniqueness.
Songs off the top of my head that have that similar American chord progression Marty mentioned:
Maroon 5 - Girls Like You
Taylor Swift - Love Story
Miley Cyrus - Wrecking Ball
It's easier to name western pop songs that aren't using these 4 chords. Really.
Omg! This is the best thing I've seen.
Being a musician is such a beautiful thing.
I love the guitar. Sounds heavenly
It's weird that chord progressions are only one element of the musical universe. With the diverse new technologies and abilities a songwriter has these days, the importance of composition is a grey area. Play a tapping bass through a delay and wah and try to recreate early 2000s trance anthems (which is one of my specialties) and your only playing 3 or 4 chords, however, everything from how you move the wah to present the song is absolutely artistic also.
I love Marty's playing, music and attitude towards songs... I can understand why Dave wanted his babies 😁. It's really good to see a thrash metal guitarist really accomplish what he has, and he continues to impress me not only as a great player, but a completely commited teacher who loves to share his insights. Great video, thanks.
The Japanese song uses 6 out of the 7 different chords in the key (not even accounting for modal interchange and tensions of the chords) as opposed to the 4 in the western song. Makes such a huge difference
An example of a Japanese song using 4
Western chords (Spitz - Cherry)
czcams.com/video/Eze6-eHmtJg/video.html
A song using Japanese chords (Ikimonogakari - Arigato)
czcams.com/video/VZBU8LvZ91Q/video.html
Cherry is one of the most popular karaoke songs in Japan🇯🇵🎤
I don't really understand all the types of keys or chord progressions, but I play guitar as a hobby. I like Japanese music because it sounded melancholic, it stretches the chords into an intense yearning kinda feeling by adding some suspended 7 in there, or some minors chords. It's drawn out as compared to how usual American pop chord progressions, but it's not bad, it actually gives the music some sort of an explanation kinda vibes.
Light rock and R&B of the 70's & 80's has similar chord progression.
It’s a pretty cool topic. I feel like lot of j-pop would be considered unconventional or harder to listen to for a mainstream audience for a bunch of reasons, like how a decent amount of westerners disregard jazz and such as boring and uninteresting music, which i think plays a pretty big factor in the difference in sound. While on the other end, most types of Japanese music embrace the jazz genre, which is why you hear varied chord progressions and really awesome basslines. Bands like Lamp and Soutaiseiriron are good examples.
it really is so strange how popular music is so much more complex in japan than it is in america. like even where it doesn't need to be it's still complex, wonder why
That's because Japan has always been progressive and America is so traditional that things don't change.
@@Kodachi112 Things don't change in the US? 🤔🤦♂️
@@nckhed What he said was stupid. It's because music in America is structured around subculture, money, gimmicks, popularity, and hype. There are people jumping into making trap beats who don't even know what a scale is or how to make a basic triad. The ones who do know what they're doing, are off to a rougher start bc we didn't grow up with this kind of music unless they grew up listening to obscure, but good 70's-80's music.
High accessibility to making music + Lack of musical knowledge + Low demand for theory rich music = Music that's more focused on what it represents vs the actual music itself.
@@Kodachi112 Tbh no hate but I have no idea where you got that America is more traditional than Japan lmao Japanese culture is overwhelming influenced by tradition, you ever tried to work with a Japanese company? It's absurd how tedious it is, for literally no other reason than "it's always been done this way" even when it comes to the most miniscule of actions
@@BensonOfD
Most Japanese says America is culture of dance but japan is culture of karaoke.
Not only a great player but a true ethnomusicologist. Fascinating!
I was expecting IV-V-iii-vi for the Japanese progression. Another super common progression and one of my personal favs
I always thought that the unique Japanese sound was more from the instrumental tone or the language itself; it's nice to know that the riff is what makes it sound good. I also like Japanese-style bass which also sounds unique.
Anyways the first chord progression isn't bad by itself; you can still make good music if you have great songwriting skills.
bruh like for real the japanese progression doesn't seem like anything thats all that different from like a basic 8-bar kind of more jazzy and functional progression and it seems to even hit a dominant at the end to bring you back to the tonic. like if anything it prolly just means that bands in japan aren't in to poppy simplicity. I'd be interested to see how often tonicless loops show up in their music cause thats kind of a cool thing thats come about in more popular western music.
Circle of Fifths everybody!!
III7 -> vi builds a lot of tension
ii -> iv gives a nice descending melody
v -> I7 -> IV does a nice brief modulation
Notice how the Irigato chord progression is not just 4 measures long (like most American pop music), but it is MUCH longer, closer to 16 or 24 measures with no repeating patterns. Japanese music is very much about telling a JOURNEY and a STORY, there is a narrative and emotional experience to tell through song with many changes, and not just a short quick repeated chorus, which might find it's roots in Christian hymns. American music is about bring the abstract ideals down to earth through repetition, while Japanese music is about experiencing an emotional journey from the ground up and appreciating the lofty beauty in hindsight of the adventure, which is a very Plato-Aristotle type of approach to songwriting.
American pop... USED to have these kind of complexities, but we traded it out for a simple formula that any dummy can understand.
Whether that's good or bad, for whatever reason, can be debated upon.
I cant plays music. But the japanese tone has always had the blend of sorrow, pain, and hope in almost all japanese songs i've heard..
The Japanese chords shown by Marty reminds me of Your Lie in April ED-Orange
I find it unfortunate that most western mainstream music has completely abandoned chord progressions like the example played in the video. You don't even need to know much about music theory to see how much more demanding it is to perform these kinds of excerpts.
Progressions like this one convey so much more dialogue and it's just tragic, knowing how little the media tries to push artists who experiment with more complex structures.
マーティンって英語上手いのね
No wonder why Japanese songs are so beautiful, imagine that chord progression. All this time, I thought that Japanese song use the same culture to the west in terms of melody matching, so now I am not surprise why, despite not a fan of pop music, I became a fan of jpop and not only with JRock! Thanks Marty! 👍👍🇵🇭🇯🇵
I mean what you’re basically talking about is a retention of the chordal harmony of mid century American jazz/funk and British Invasion pop songwriting tropes which both swept the world a couple times, but coming from a Japanese folk music foundation
The Japanese style certainly lends a greater degree of freedom in structure of the music, it does remind me a lot of the stuff in my 70's british/european playlist.
Having said that I wouldn't say that chord progressions are exclusive to one country, I could bring up my 70's playlist and show examples that clearly show that the longer progression isn't something unique to Japan. Its more Japan appreciates that kind of more complex melody (based) and that appreciation flows on into their music.
These chords are mostly from the song "There Will Never Be Another You", an American pop standard
i think it was
C - Esus4, E - Am - Gm - C - Bdim, Gm - C/G, C/F# - F - G# - C
- is to divide measures
theres a few wrong chords but this sounds pretty close to me.
SO HELPFUL WAS LOOKING FOR THIS ON GUITAR!!
So is there a pattern? How do you come up with these chords
@@callous21 i figured it how to play it perfectly
thank you so much!!!
This is why Marty Friedman is so unique as guitar player. He learn from different cultures and didn't stuck in western music. Be open-minded. Music have no boarders.
every musician learn from different cultures even vocalist, tbf western music works in west, trying to bring other cultures could work though you need to deliver it in a way it works in western, there was a song in Gta Vice city where the vocalist sing as a japanese vocalist thats an example other example is.KSHMR and electronic music artist who brought indian sounds to electronic music and the beatles deliver indian sounds in their music as well the list is huge and i barely know examples
I feel like there is no other place in the world where the influence of jazz is so prevalent
If you want to hear an amazing Japanese band in the prog rock/jazz/fusion realm check out KENSO. Their "II" album in particular is marvelous.
Even these sophisticated chord progressions they got from the West. Japanese musicians do deep dives into guitarists and learn from the best the West has to offer. Jeff Beck, Steve Lukather, John Petrucci, and Gary Moore are some of the names that regularly roll off of many Japanese guitarists' lips.
The problem with Japanese music can be they analyze what they are doing to death and lose the soul. Many Japanese guitarists have memorized great guitar songs and can play them damn near to the original, but have trouble or lose confidence in impromptu jam sessions. Therefore, they are very likely to do something from design rather than from an outpouring of emotion (relying on fewer chords), and things get mapped out "according to the manual" as they say in Japanese. That's why you find this type of pattern across genres. It is the "sophisticated" level of song structure, and anyone knowledgeable about Japanese research and their quest for "quality" can understand the connection.
日本人は、
探究や冒険が好き。
人々を驚かせたり喜ばせるのが好き。
backstoryを調べるのが好き。
アドリブは苦手。
だって恥ずかしがり屋だから。
Say me weeb, But i like jmusic more than my country music, because jmusic has feels, nostalgic, hitting in your heart vibe
People that are using childish insults like weeb are just uncultured narrow minded swines.
Welp, that explains Sonic music and also explains why I like those chords
Sounds almost like a Beatles progression (Paul especially), or one from the Great American Songbook.
As an American I think this is why I’ve always been attracted to Japanese and Korean mainstream music. They have very accessible chord progressions just like western music but it’s just so much more rich and layered. Take Seiji Igusa, very simple progressions for a casual listener but enough flare for a musician to appreciate as well. Gotta love it, stay open minded my fellow people!
I've noticed this in Korean and Chinese music as well. Everytime I hear an instrumental version of a Japanese drama I know instantly it's Japanese. This is very underrated topic.
Korean pop is just American pop with Korean vocals.
@@sirmiluch6856 In that case anything pop is American pop in that language? What kind of logic is that? So western centric.
@@danny55531 what are you talking about? Korean music is literally America copy paste. Most of Korean pop is produced exactly like American pop - "singing" (or rather groaning) style, composition and hyper sexualisation.
Of course there are exemptions (mainly these artists that are rarher following Japanese style), but it doesn't change the fsct that vast majority of Korean music (and general Korean popculture) is nothing but America copy paste.
@@sirmiluch6856 Not quite. See this for example: czcams.com/video/oRvenA5r7R0/video.html It's heavily based on Western pop certainly, but K-pop often goes for more complex chords and progressions similarly to J-music.
@@sirmiluch6856
You obviously haven't heard any more than BTS and some idols for Korean teenagers.
You need to dig deeper into the indi scene to find real Korean songs and artists.
Watching this in 2022, it's clear to see that Japanese music, especially with how anime has taken over the west within the last few years, has a huge influence on young musicians coming up.
Luckily stumbled on to this video and it makes so much more sense. I can't seem to fall back on US music or any other than Japanese and tend to stick with Japanese. I understand now.
Nice but,this is what happens in Brazilian Music (MPB/Nossa Nova).II V I progressions connecting chords,chords inversions by the thirth,fifth and seventh...Music is amazing beyond 4 simple chords.
right? this explanation gives a very odd impression like all japanese music follows some type of formula as a lot of western music does, when really it's just that they're not afraid to diverge from typical chord progressions.
It would have made more sense for him to just say jazz/disco chord progressions never fell out of fashion in Japan (and Brazil) unlike USA.
@@kumonom1 I meant in a general sense, you took it for yourself (and wrong).
@@michu6777 Oh, really? So yes, you should try to understand anything that happened outside of America and Europe in the 60's and 70's.
@@johnnymoreira192 I’m not implying at all that other countries don’t do this. What I’m saying is that the US no longer really does this. Japan has a ton of Brazilian influence in their music.
So...more chords? Nothing about what he played seemed out of the norm for a Western song (say, The Beatles) that happens to incorporate more chords than a standard four-chord song.
yeah this was a really odd and borderline orientalist interpretation of ALL japanese music, as if it also has typical chord progression like a lot of western music, when really it's just that they put more effort in where western music stopped trying
i havent cried at an instrumental show before but when i first saw Rie Suzaku live i was crying at the melody lol!
they are really good at this
dude i was just listening to a japanese song in the background and when the video stopped playing my background song kept going and i thought that the video didn't ended lol. It's is literally how he explains it, music in japanese music tells a story along with everything, while in western pop mainly there is a use of chords for a base and they often use production and lyrics to tell the story
As a guy who hasn’t ever really been exposed to Japanese music, this might be why my wife keeps telling me my chord progressions and songs sound like they belong in a Japanese video game. (I like using long, complex chord progressions.)
I like how the japanese progression sounds but when you try to play a japanese songs its hard to find the exact note and chords !! XD
I did not realize that this is why when I was growing up I had all these usa alternative rock bands on my iPod and then every album ever recorded by the pillows the Japanese rock band.
This guitarist is right he really plays like japanese band and he is amazing me too i like japanese band song it is so amazing
*Marty starts playing*
*Literally every anime ending credits starts rolling through my head*
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Somehow I always start assuming traditional Japanese music when I read 'Japanese music' and hear Japanese pentatonic scales plinging away sankyoku pieces on a koto somewhere in fuedal Edo period Japan.
Must be my narrow mind for playing shakuhachi, lol.
This is basically just the Japanese version of western music.
Yes. Its sort of like how so many things in Japan start from a base that is very western but iterate on it in very different ways and end up somewhere different (JRPGs vs WRPGS, 7-11 in Japan vs US, ect)
@@andrewfennewald9465 Yes, they as a culture seem to be somehow able to make things 'their own' so to speak.
Marty Friedman - my youth’s guitar idol (and to be honest still is but for different reasons haha)
This definitely isn't a slight against Western composition and shouldn't be taken as one, but it's extremely interesting to see a culture that views this level of chord complexity as the bare minimum for turning an ear to a song. For me, Western music has always had a lyrical leg up in terms of what's complex and interesting about it, but it's figuratively and literally on top of a cookie-cut track most times. I got bored of that Top 40 sound a while ago.
I'm late but here's my thoughts. The Western chord progression is too blant to even play through the entire part but the Japanese version, you can literally loop it for an hour and you will love it; even without adding melodies.
It's a very nostalgic sound.