Should you ever consider Dutch Citizenship? The Good, Bad and the Ugly 🤓
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- čas přidán 17. 11. 2022
- Hi Beautiful People,
In this video, I share with you details regarding Dutch Citizenship. I talk about the good and ugly side of being Dutch. I also share details on how you qualify for it, how much it costs and how long it takes.
Do let me know your opinions in the comment section. I am very curious to know 🙃.
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Referenced Links
- IND website
ind.nl/en/dutch-citizenship
- Other details on Dutch citizenship
www.government.nl/topics/dutc...
- Residence Permit for Investors
business.gov.nl/coming-to-the...
-Countries with the best quality of life
www.numbeo.com/quality-of-lif...
I was born on the Caribbean island called Aruba, which is part of the Kingdom. So like Josephine stated, I was born with the Dutch nationality and have a Dutch passport. While we do speak Dutch in school, in daily life we actually don't. We speak a creole language called Papiamento and we speak English (my 1st language). Most also speak Spanish. I went to school in Aruba and in NL. I worked in both countries. Going from Aruba to NL and getting a job is easy. However... A Dutch person can go to any country within the Dutch Kingdom outside NL, but they have to get a permit to work. Vice versa this is not needed. They protect the job market for the locals.
Other small stuff: I got my drivers licence on Aruba. I switched it for a Dutch one without issues. However a Dutch person cannot go to Aruba.... get their licence over there... and come back and switch it for a Dutch one. To do that, you will need to live at least 6 months on one of the islands. Before people did that, because it was cheaper to get your licence there.
My old Dutch passport that was issued in Aruba said it was issued by the authority "Gouverneur van Aruba". My current one that was issued here in NL says "Burgemeester van Rotterdam".
Thank you for being candid with this video. I still look forward to living in the Netherlands.
I’m glad you found it helpful 🤗
Love that you touched on your feelings with Dutch identity!
Your videos are so concise and enjoyable ❤ - a big Thank you.
You’re so welcome. I’m glad it helps
Awesome video. Great Information. You are so eloquent. Well done.
As a citizen you don't need a residence permit because being a citizen implicitly means you have that.
Same with work permit, voting rights, etc.
Another advantage of being a citizen is that you can apply for jobs that require citizenship (which are mostly certain government jobs, not relevant for most people I know, but if you're a highly educated person and want to work for for example the ministry of defence or justice, many jobs are open only for citizens).
Thank you for sharing 🤗
Love your videos, thx :)
I think the rule should be that dual nationality is not allowed if one of them is the Dutch nationality. No exceptions for any country or person! Not even our 'queen'. It's easily solved with a permanent residency. Dual nationality often means dual loyalty.
For instance someone with dual nationality can be on welfare here but own 5 houses in the other country. Many politicians and also mayors have dual nationality and dual loyalty. If they say something here they always have to think if they could go to jail for saying it in that other country. So I think dual nationality is not desirable at all.
I came to the Netherlands in 2014 as a British citizen. Two years ago I got my Dutch citizenship by the option route as my wife is Dutch. I was able to keep my British citizenship, so I now have both Dutch and British passports. I had to take Dutch language exams, but they weren't too difficult. One big plus for me was that I now have my EU citizenship back. (Don't talk to me about Brexit 🤬🤬🤬!) However, I still feel British, and I don'k know if I'd have been prepared to give up my British nationality in order to become Dutch, especially as I already had permanent residence here. That would have been a difficult decision.
How did you manage to keep both? I thought you had to renounce any other citizenship
@@JL-mi1km Usually you do. I think it was the combination of my age, the length of time I'd lived here and the fact that I'm married to a Dutch citizen.
Why did it take 9 years? Isn’t the requirement just 5?!
It took 6+ years, not 9. There was no urgency as I already had permission to stay here permanently.@@ShawrmaM8
My God I couldn’t agree more! Dear you are seeing the root of the problem! But I think with time it will be much more mixtures (people from other countries) so people will not be asking a silly question “where you originally from”. But also you know I try to understand them who asks, they don’t mean bad they want to know you better and understand what they can talk about 😊
Appreciate your honesty
Please I have a question . My question is if you give your citizenship out for a Dutch passport , and in case you made something or gave wrong information to get the Dutch citizenship and they take it back from you , that’s means the person don’t have country anymore or what or the Dutch government will get back your old citizenship for you ???
Thanks for the video. Hard question.
I agree. The answer is really based on each individual 🤓
My husband was born in the Netherlands; gave up his citizenship form US. Our daughter is married to Dutch citizen and she and our grandson have dual. I think my husband should work to get it back so if we ever decided to move there permanently I might be able to get it too. Love your programs.
Thank you for sharing your own experience. I think dual citizenship has an advantage. I hope he can get it back 👌🏾
There is no way to get it back. The US does not permit you to ask for your citizenship back once you have renounced it. You are treated like any immigrant. For example, if he ever wants to live here again, he must get a visa like any other person. That is why they now demand an interview before you renounce citizenship at the US embassy to make people aware of this irreversible situation.
@@elkinhuertas2137 I think I wrote the message wrong; he gave up Dutch Citizenship for is US Citizenship. He's now a US Citizen for over 40 years.
I am living in NL for more than 12 years and till not I have not applied for PR or Dutch citizenship, my fear is that I donot want to give away the citizenship that I obtain by birth. Being Indian, I feel more safe when I am travelling around with Indian passport. I feel if I get stuck on moon, then I am sure my country will send someone to rescue me, I cannot think about other country will have same feeling or responsibility for me.
I can understand your sentiments and I think you can choose not to get Dutch citizenship unless you really want to or need it.
If you live here 15 years then acquiring Citizenship is mostly an administrative matter by the 'Option' route: pay the fee and then you get a ceremony at city hall, together with other new Netherlanders - you'll probably get a speech by your city's mayor.
I like the way you speak 👌
Thank you🤗
I am a Dutch citizen and live in the USA I was born in Amsterdam does anyone knows if I will loose my Dutch passport.
If I want to apply for a US citizenship.
I think its definitely worth it if you can live in one of the safest, best organized, wealthy and greatest country on this planet. Safety, good life, organized is worth every penny. Thats where you want your kids growing up. No cap. Most other countries are non of the points i made.
In some ways it is ugly to renounce your original nationality. But look at it this way, ideally all people in the world should only have 1 passport (Equals). And from the Dutch state's point of view, it is important to be counting on your loyalty if war breaks out and you are mobilised.
correct. Citizenship is an important part of your identity (or is supposed to be). If you don't identify as Dutch why become a Dutch citizen at all (and yes, I know there are people who just want the passport so they can make use of the visa free travel pretty much around the world, but that should not be a main reason to attain another nationality)?
And the same is true for most any country. There are relatively few that do allow dual citizenship, and many will automatically renounce your citizenship with them if you gain it somewhere else.
question!
my grandma was born in netherlands. she married a canadian in EU, and gave birth to my dad a long time ago
would my dad be eligible?
For me personally I don’t see why you can’t be Nigerian and Dutch at the same time? For me it’s the diversity and colors that makes this country beautiful. But I don’t make the rules. And since a part of the carribean, Suriname and Indonesia share hundreds of years of history in the kingdom of the Netherlands, typical Dutchies come in al shades and skin tones so never feel excluded by people who are clueless about history. Or I will have a word with them.😂
Hahahahah. The last sentence made me laugh…. I need to record you words so once I encounter such people I can play it for them😁. Thanks so much for your comment. I also wish dual citizenship is allowed but I think the law makers have their reasons.
I heard they considered it at some point especially for first generation immigrants. I hope in the future it becomes possible..
I think it mainly has to do with you having the right to vote in your country of origin or the ability of the country of origin drafting you into their army in case said country would enter a war .
The right to vote in your country of origin might mean that one can vote there for something that goes directly against Dutch policies and interests .
And a worst case scenario might be that we are at war with the country of origin and said country would call you to arms to fight for them to fight against us .
Also , gaining the right to vote in the country where you live is HUGE . If I was to permanently move to another country , I'd love to have a say in its political choices !
@@Maverick21491 Partially, you're right but, there are more reasons. One of the reasons for banning dual citizenship was because, some criminals took advantage of it. Another was that, it was an administrative burden on our systems and finally there were right wing parties who were opposed to the idea somebody fealt anything but Dutch when living here. It's part of their often racist and bigoted way of looking at citizens of colour or non-Dutch descent.
@@Maverick21491 Btw, there are still people with dual citizenship for example Turkey and Morocco won't recognize people descendant from their countries losing their citizenship (this concerns about 500.000 people).
It became a huge problem to send people back to their origin country when needed cuz they had a double passport. Many immigrants abused that double passport in their favor. So yeah it was a big problem. Its not so long ago that they finaly changed it to just 1 passport. It also make sense tbh. If you want to be a citizen of that country you should only have that respectfull passport. Its unacceptable that someone with 2 different passports and identity can run for politician, cop or judge or can vote. Like someone already said... it was also a huge burden.
You are so lovely. I don’t even know what to say.
A Dutch citizen.
My question long takes after having my diploma id card permanently resident and birthday certificate when when i have all those documents 📄 how long takes to get passport?
I was born and raised in The Netherlands,worked for KLM and many other companies.
I tried to get double citizenship in the eighties.
I have 60 emails,documents to show that I have proof that I an Dutch at heart.
After I worked fir PanAm hrre in the US I made the mistake to think I could have kept my Dutch Passport.The Dutch government revoked my Dutch Ciizenship!
I have geneology pspers tgat go back to the 1600!
I tried to pursue it again today through the Dutch Consulate in San Fransisco.I can't wven get hold of a person on the phone.
The person did leave a website,but none of us at home here can't hear one letter ,so the website became non existent.
What to do ?
Margot VanderCapelln / van de Giesen
I would love to interview you on my channel over Dutch citizenship, I recently had the Wealthy Expat at it was great. let me know if you are interested - great videos by the way
For me its good to have dutch passport. It made me to travel very easy to another countries than my malawian passport.
I got my passport after 4 years living over here . Am married to a dutch , really i spend alot of money.
Dutch language lessons ( inburgering examen ) it cost me 4500 euro , passport 900 euro.
I still have my other passport too. But guess i dont to use it.
Am dutch on paper 🤣🤣🤣 because people think or ask me ben je asielzoeker?🤣🤣 waar kom je vandaan? Je bent niet Nederlander toch? 🤣🤣 this makes me to lough alot. ( i live in a small town or city in Limburg ) where you can count or see few black people
Limburg is very quiet and not very multiculti conmared to the cities
That’s a lot of money..that’s not needed if you can learn on your own.
@@SuperPsv4ever for me was needed. I wanted to meet people , learn dutch very fast. The more i talk dutch with people the fast i started Speaking.
I Wanted to work too , i could not find english Speaking work close to where i stay . Most of people was telling me to learn the language , it will be easy to communicate with other people. I dont live in a big city 🤪
So its worthy spending that big money
@@malumbochavula2222 indeed for faster it’s correct. My woman is Mexican and she pay nothing and make all exams so it’s possible.
wat een lul verhaal
I guess the Dutchies are protective for a bit. If you want to live in the Netherlands I guess you have to make a choice. I don't think it is an unreasonable request to adapt to the general culture. And if you want to be a Dutchie legally you do have to make a choice... You get the "Lusten" but also the "lasten".. There is a kind of responsibility. Committing no major crimes is the least one could ask in my opinion. Provide the true facts during the procedure is another easy requirement. To be able to understand Dutch culture and being able to communicate is not unreasonable either. So yess it does not come easy nor cheap.
Hi Hans, of course I understand and agree that obtaining citizenship of any country shouldn’t be a walk in the park. I think it’s important that people really consider their decisions and also pay for it. It makes it more valuable. I think my only wish was the option for dual citizenship for first generation immigrants at the very least. This gives them a chance to still keep the identity of the country of birth. But I guess, of wishes were horses……. Or maybe one day my wish will come through 🤪
@@josphineoguguahi josephine... it used to be no problem to have dual citizenship..but i think that after the" rights" that comes with that citizenship have been abused so often..they desided to changed that!! For example..My ex husband didn't really knew his true age...because the age mentioned on his pasport wasn't his true age!! In turkey ( at time of his birth) only the man was allowed to register the birth of a child....but his father was working in germany ( i think)..so he was registered in turkey after quit some time...and for reasons of the right to childsupport..his dad decided to ad a year..or even a couple of years to his age!! wich came with a large amount of money ( backpay)
and there being no offical reporting of the child at the time of his birth...it was impossible to check the true age of a child or prevent that kind of fraud from happening!! I think that might be on of many reasons for making a few changes...to the rules and criteria! My ex husband( of almost 30 years ago) did get his dual citizenship...
Maybe ..like so many things...people not respecting rules. And rights...created a need for more and strickter rules...
It's worth it all!
whats the requirements to keep renewing PR?
Thanks 🙏👍.😊
Depending on which country you’re from, will determine if you can become a dual citizen
Thats just crazy to me! The renaunciation part. I did not know that… that sucks and indeed a very ugly side to all this, (I’m dutch) I think that should change 🤔
It used to be different but the right wing parties are suspicious of people with dual identities...
Het ligt niet altijd aan Nederland soms staat het land van herkomst een dubbele nationaliteit niet toe.
very few countries allow multiple citizenships. Netherlands is in fact more lax than many in that there are conditions under which you are allowed to keep your former citizenship.
E.g. in Japan it's utterly impossible unless under very rare conditions which pretty much need approval from a cabinet level official or the emperor himself to retain your former citizenship (or to retain Japanese citizenship when attaining that of another country).
i always found double citisenship so fake, sorry if that hurts you.
The good and ugly side of being Dutch!
I'm Dutch retired and since 12 years living in the Dominican Republic with my Dominican wife. My Dominican wife has dual nationality. When I apply for Dominican citizenship, I also loose my Dutch citizenship and I will need a Visa to visit family in the Netherlands. Since I live outside the EU in a "cheap" country, I only receive 70% of my state pension (AOW). I also lost 1.5 years of salary serving as conscript in the Dutch army for pocket money. Being Dutch did cost me serious money twice, after retirement due to a mix of stinginess and racism of the Dutch government. In reality they wanted to save on pension-money for the Moroccans and Turks returning after retirement to their cheaper home country. That law was very popular with the right wing racists in the Netherlands.
In reality my wife and I, used to European life-style, do not live much cheaper here than in the Netherlands. Some things like beer, wine and electricity are more expensive here. I can only eat cheaper here, if I eat rice with a fried egg. For my breakfast I use bread and I think bread is cheaper here, but the cheese; ham; peanut butter etc. are imported from the EU or the USA. Besides in the Netherlands they get compensation for the higher costs of living, we have 10% inflation here, but at the same time the Euro collapsed from 66 pesos to 51 pesos for 1 Euro (24.5%), so my pension's buying-power has been reduced with 10+25=35%.
I never expected, that the Peso would be a stronger international currency than the Euro :( :(
I don't see the racist point. The goal of a social welfare fund is to provide a minimum of income so people don't get hungry. If somebody from Morocco in Morocco needs half the money to achieve that minimum goal, the goal is reached. Personally, I find it very strange they get money at all (AOW). Of course they have the right in my opinion on their money from pension funds, also when they live in Morocco, but that is not social security. And as for conscription, oh come on, you received free food, free clothing, free travel (by public transport) and free shelter. Why don't you mention that? Your point is that the Dominican Republic is expensive to live in. So, if that is your point, make it known to the ministry involved and if need be parlieament or even judges in the Netherlands.
Hi Josephine.. I would like to ask you about getting Dutch citizenship in only 3 years. In the ind website they say there are few points where a person can get Dutch citizenship within only 3 years. One of the these points is "You were recognised or legitimised by a Dutch national as an adult.".. Actually I couldn't understand this requirement. Could you please explain what is it exactly if you have any idea about it?
If one of your parents marries to a Dutch person, and you are an adult, and the new Dutch parent officially recognises you as his/her child, then you can get a Dutch passport. That's it. The downside is, that for example you legally need to take care of both your parents if they fall sick, or get old (up to a point, not in every situation). It also has some repercussions if you are out of work and still living at home. You will then not get a state allowance quickly (and up to I think 23 years old) because your parents still have to provide for you.
i am from Nigeria and i don't think i can give up my Nigerian citizenship for a Dutch citizensip. I personally think it's not worth it cus the cons outweigh the pros. I guess residence permit is just fine.
Just leave already.
So u saying that if white person goes to Nigeria 🇳🇬 and becomes naturalized Nigerians will say you are originally belong to Nigeria? I don’t think there’s any country that doesn’t that. I’m just saying
I made this point and clearly stated that it’s not just about the Netherlands, but it’s something that has to do with obtaining any citizenship through naturalisation. (I guess you missed that part). Secondly I stated that the feeling gets worse if you have to give up the nationality you already own. Nigeria allows dual citizenship at least, that gives you a chance to still hold onto any other country you relate with in terms of your identity.
In many countries, when you get the citizenship of another country, your previous citizenship cancels automatically by law (you even pledge to support the country of your current citizenship during the oath ceremony). This is why people apply for dual citizenship later. Most countries do not allow dual citizenship.
If you support activities of your mother country that betray your residing country (with citizenship), you will be considered a traitor. If you understand the meaning of being a citizen, you will understand that declaring as citizens of two countries is problematic for authority. Read the oath and paper work very carefully, when you apply for any citizenship.
Even in countries like India, China, etc., when you get the citizenship of another country, your Indian/Chinese citizenship cancels automatically.
Also, becoming a citizen of another countries does not mean that you are as same as the white European Dutch person, who has strong ties to EU . Feeling of belong to a particular culture is a matter different from citizenship. This is why even you have hard time renouncing the citizenship of your mother land; because your heart is there.
Love your vids. One comment though, the "If you were fraudulent During the application" is actually the most unreasonable reason. Most of the cases that this is applied to are not cases of fraude but of honest mistake, and the law does not allow for exceptions of honest mistakes. People have lost their citizenship because in their country of origin their name have multiple spellings and they used the spelling they use every day and not the spelling on their birth certificate. One famous example was ex-member of parliament Ayaan Hirsi Ali who almost lost her citizenship because her birth certificate said Ayaan Hirsi Magan. A distinction without a difference in Somalia, but not to Dutch law.
Ohhh wowww. I never knew this. Thank you
for sharing. Misspelling names or using multiple names is also very very common in Nigeria. It’s very common for a child to be given up to three names and as they grow they can decide which ones to include or take out. So one can have different certificates bearing different names. At some point you may be requested to get a sworn affidavit in court stating that you are one and the same person. That’s how it’s usually handled.
The main reason for her losing her citizenship was because she fraudulently applied for status as a refugee in the Netherlands, when under international treaties she should have applied in Germany (country of first entry from a place you were at risk).
Her refugee status was retroactively revoked, which revoked her residence permit that came with that refugee status, which meant her citizenship application was now fraudulent, which meant her citizenship was revoked.
By that time she'd also been living and working in the US long enough and was applying for US citizenship.
@@josphineogugua First name isn't really important (changing that is possible in the Netherlands, though legally changing it can be a bit of a hassle).
It's the surname that's problematic.
In the case of Ayaan, she used her husband (from a forced marriage) surname I believe, rather than her birth name.
She also fraudulently applied for refugee status in the Netherlands rather than Germany (her point of entry in the EU) where she under treaty should have applied.
That specific case is far more complicated than just a wrong name on a form.
maybe get the whole story, it is not so simple as you say.
Citizenship isn't just administrative procedure. You want some benefits from it. So it costs. Going back to the medieval times, it might be compared to a pledge of fealty. Looking at it from that perspective, it stands to reason that you decide for one side or the other. With your citizenship, you also get included into the democratic processes of governing the country. A thing, I think, mixed loyalties have no place in.
And you're right: once you're through the door, you're not "in" yet. But if you contribute to your local society, your son's footballclub, or whatever, you will get your place fairly easily.
I won't ever give up my Dutch citizenship. Because I will lose it
Dubble Passports is the bad thing of the Netherlands. Because you can abuse it for your own win. You can say in Spain oh but I’m Dutch and in Netherlands oh but I’m Spanish.👎 Also Dutch citizen Ship can be done in 3 years for visum country’s, from start to natrulasation.
The way you approach this is wrong. Citizenship isn’t a product you buy in a store. What you call ugly seems entirely reasonable to me. You should have to think about it, and doubters should not apply. It’s not something you put on a scale, and consider whether it’s “worth” it. I think in the end you explain it best, you either “feel Dutch” or you don’t, and then it’s “worth” anything.
I can understand why it’s not an ugly side. And I agree that citizenship is something serious to really consider and think about but I think with the world being a global village and immigration being in the rise.. it is a great privilege to be able to have dual citizenship at the very least but that’s my opinion and we are allowed to have different views 🫶
@@josphineogugua Sure, but with citizenship comes rights and obligations. The obligations often facilitate the rights that make a citizenship attractive. Dual citizenship makes people cherry pick between the rights and obligations of their citizenships. Hence it shouldn’t be allowed in my view. It’s simply unfair to those in society who do not get to cherry-pick and who end up having to pay for obligations that sustain the rights. As to having a different view, I welcome it.
The Dutch immigration websites are the clearest and easiest to follow.
I agree. They do a good job explaining the steps in details. You can also call the Ind line for more clarification
Hello I want to talk with you because my girlfriend lives in Netherlands so can you me help how can we be together
thats easy, marry her. you can come over then and apply for citisenship which they will give you.
@@wout123100 thanks so much
@@wout123100 but if she has a child from her ex boyfriend so can I still marry her?
😂 there is a very funny shaking of your head 12:15, exactly as you say hidious crime and fraudulent.. I think something went wrong when you pit text on the screen..
For me Dutch citizenship is worth it. I love the language.
must be kidding :D
OK, Josephine, OK ;-) Ok, ja OK!
😁okay
14:19 imagine a white guy with a Nigerian passport. I think that 100% would ask where he or she is originally from.
Josephine are u Nigerian?
Yes I am. Chima you’re Nigerian 😆
Only a fool renounced their citizenship from a developing country. Renounciation is merely a letter; now carrying on by the authorities regarding the content of that letter is where you the renouncee have to be proactive. Countries barely check or care…
You can keep US citizenship and have 2 passports 👍
That’s is a positive one. Especially for people who still want to keep the citizenship they obtained by birth👌🏾
that's because the US makes it extremely hard and expensive to renounce your citizenship (hard enough that it's effectively impossible for a lot of people).
@@jwentingcan’t have a U.S and Dutch at the same time? I wouldn’t want to renounce my US citizenship
@@Mr_Banker222 I think US is one of the exceptions to the rule because of the excessive cost getting rid of it
I don’t agree with the “ugly” side arguments you explained, everything fair there, no any country have to accept dual citizenship in my opinion. Also of course a piece of paper cannot make you Dutch, especially while you are using English to talk to a Dutch person. I bet if you master Dutch language like a native, nobody would ask you about your origins. In the other hand, it’s a fact that every country has a stereotype, if you don’t look like them, isn’t it so normal that they assume if you’re foreigner?
Is the same as any European moving to other equatorial Nations.
Nobody in Nigera or North Africa will see a tall blond/white guy and think "Ah, a fellow _whatever nation i am in_ "
That's just how evolution works :D
Just because your parents are Dutch when you were born, does not make you a Dutch citizen
If one of your parents is Dutch. You automatically receive the Dutch nationality. My son was born when I only had a Nigerian passport and my partner has a Dutch nationality. However, my son received a Dutch nationality instantly.
I now have dual citizenship (Nigerian and Dutch)
You make this point about your skin colour. This is nonsense. The Netherlands has a huge variety of ethnicities and is highly integrated. It's far more integrated than your country of birth, ironically.
Bro i live in the Netherlands most white people there want what they call the "Allochtonen" out of the country and support the PVV
@@BabushkaTwerking This is a result of unsustainable immigration at a crazy pace., particularly illegal immigrants. Also, the racism aimed at indigenous Europeans, particularly from recent immigrants, is astounding. Further, illegal immigrants have been involved in numerous attrocities in Europe recently (e.g. the Cologne attacks). All this is particularly unjust, given Western European countries consistently tops the least racist, most equitable in research/studies. Indigenous people have had enough. If you come to Europe accept our culture or don't bother. I would not go to India and start demanding FEBO and Stampot, or ask fro the dismantling of the Caste system.
I was being given birth at 1998 by my nigerian parents in Netherlands, but my and I now left around 2003 to nigeria.
Does that makes me a citizen of Netherlands?
Alright guys the plan is to marry a Dutchie 😂
I am Dutch. I ran away from that crazy country. Belgium is better
*confused Dutch noises*
Ehhhhhh
hm belgische bonbons.
You can easily learn dutch for free why would I ever pay for that
I would not think you were Dutch because you sound Nigerian.
How many okay in this video 😂
To bad some people think if they can become Dutch, everything else in live is for free.
Only a fool renounced their citizenship from a developing country. Renounciation is merely a letter; now carrying on by the authorities regarding the content of that letter is where you the renouncee has to be proactive…