#24 Flying a 2008 Cessna 400 - The Cirrus Alternative
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- čas přidán 5. 07. 2024
- In this video we are flying a 2008 Cessna 400. This particular Cessna 400 is a client's personal aircraft and we are picking it up for some service that needs to get done at OCR Aviation.
The Cessna 400 is an outstanding high-performance single engine aircraft that unfortunately got discontinued in 2019 due to the low sales volume. Main reason for its production end is the Cirrus SR22 with its parachute system. The Cessna 400 is a little bit faster however with a top speed of 235 KTAS at 25,000' feet.
We currently have a Cessna 400 TTx listed for sale. Please contact me if you are interested or have any questions. www.controller.com/listing/fo...
#Cessna400 #Cessna #Cirrus #Cessna400TTX
0:00 Intro
0:34 Take Off
3:15 Cessna 400 History
4:58 Performance
5:25 Interior
6:35 Fuel Consumption
7:04 Competitors
8:08 Why Cirrus beat it
8:48 Cessna TTx for Sale
9:44 ILS Approach
11:20 Landing
12:12 Summary
CESSNA 400 TTx FOR SALE:
www.controller.com/listing/fo...
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Instagram: flying_with...
Website: ocraviation.com
Contact:
Rich Manor
(562) 413-3251
Rich@ocraviation.com - Auta a dopravní prostředky
That panel is soooo clean!
We were commenting on the clean panel as well when we flew it. Thanks for watching!
In 2001, I picked up a Lancair Columbia 300 at the factory in Bend for a low time owner who needed an instructor for his insurance. Great plane! The next year, I picked up an E55 Baron in Bullhead City to build ME time for him, and chased each other back to NM. The 300 easily matched the Baron, all on a single prop with the gear hanging out. Love your content!
That's great! Thanks for sharing that story. The 300s, 350s and 400s definitely have some stellar performance.
Well done as always Rich.
Thank you!
Your videos are great love your straight forward style .
Thank you!
another great video Rich
I appreciate that
GREAT video Rich! I'll be in the market for one later this year.
Thank you very much! Let us know if we can help!
Another amazing flying machine
Thanks for watching!
Another great video! Nice meeting you the other day with Jon Spano at PAC
Great to meet you too. Look forward to flying together sometime!
Rich, I am amazed that you know how to fly so many different types of planes, with confidence. Very informative, again. Selling planes is an awesome gig my friend.
Thanks for the message - aircraft sales has been a great career!
Hello Rich and thx! I just checked my POH for the 300, 400 and Piper Lance. They'll travel 18, 22 and 10 miles from 10,000 feet engine loss altitude. These glide very well compared to the older a/c. I love the audio callouts and runway simulation on the EFIS. Enjoy your spring.
Cessna 400 is a sleek airplane. One of my favorite piston singles.
Great plane. The ttx fusrlage and wings were made at my home town CHIHUAHUA México. At a textron facility near home.
Love that plane. Tnks clyde...
I visited there when I was a Cessna dealer. Thanks for the message!
Own the same year with TKS…love it! I flew a cirrus prior…the 400 perform smoother and easier to predict!
I agree with that! Thank you for watching!
my favorite plane I love these things
i love that red co-pilot checklist sign 😂
This is a great plane. We are getting more info from an owner at Apa. Your video is very helpful also .
Great to hear! Thank you!
The BRS hasn't exactly improved the Cirrus safety statistics, which were much higher than the accident rate across General Aviation for a long time. It's just like the Bonanza Effect, people with more money than skill flying planes they aren't qualified for, but with the added confidence boost of a feature they think will universally save them. The Cirrus training program has had a positive effect and finally the accident rate is getting in-line with the rest of general aviation.
I agree. I did CSIP course a couple years back and was very impressed with the training. Thanks for comment.
That was fun being your passenger for this short flight in this remarkable Corvalis TT ; it's a shame Cessna doesn't produce it any longer ; you're right when saying Cirrus had the formula nevertheless I think that the parachute is not the miracle solution it has its limits for sure !!
That’s true. Cirrus suffered some early problems with accidents/fatalities even with the chute. They got a lot of that addressed with training, but shows CAPS has limitations.
@@FlyingwithRich And they couldn't certify it without the parachute.
Rich I have to catch up with you but unfortunately You are so blessed to get to fly all types of high performance aircraft
My dad flew for Cessna here in Wichita back in the mid to late 60's. He flew single engines for their publicity photo shoots. The 400 is a cool little plane.
I worked for Cessna and did some photo shoots in the late 90’s. Thanks for watching!
@@FlyingwithRich Wow, that's cool.
Did not stay in production very long, wonder why? Great video and thanks for posting.
Great video, When you do the video flying the King Air C90GTx?
Hopefully soon!
I like the copilot checklist 😆
Yeah pretty funny. Not very CRM friendly though haha.
Thank you for this video Rich. I couldn't find too much information online, but how is the rudder hold system supposed to work?
Great airplane, a real shame Cessna discontinued them. This would have been a cool plane to have the new Continental TDI for a powerplant like the Diamond DA-50.
Good idea!
The TTx really has to be the best single you can buy for the money. Dual carbon wing spars taken up to 26G's, direct control side stick, G2000 flight deck, speed brakes, 200+ knot cruise and just a fraction of the cost of an SR22T. Loving your vids, Rich! I trained over at Angel City Flyers back in 2011 in the DA40. My family owns Total Equipment Rental right across the street. Can't wait to get back into flying. Your channel's inspiring.
Thanks - stop by sometime!
What time does it mean when the this plane starts the take-off roll? “It’s time for the big dog to eat!” What a sound!
Hey, Rich, great video on this Cessna 400. I've been away from aviation for a while but am working on a come back. Curious, though, what is the device, and it's function, that deployed upward from the right wing as you were on approach to Long Beach? Thanks!
Speed brakes. Thanks for watching!
That Co-Pilot checklist😂😂😂.
Hi Rich. To echo what so many others have said, I really enjoy your videos! Question for you: I realize this video is a bit older, but you mentioned you picked up the plane and brought it to Long Beach for service. I have a 2004 Cessna Columbia 400 based in Hayward, CA (KHWD) and I’m looking for a reputable shop to conduct the Annual, which is due this December… it doesn’t necessarily have to be in the state of California but that would obviously be a bonus. I don’t suppose you would have any recommendations? Also, my brother and I have been toying with the idea of upgrading to a big Cessna twin so it would be fun to fly down to Long Beach next time you have a nice one in your inventory. Thanks again for the awesome video content and keep up the great work!
Thank you. We have a Textron Aviation/Cessna Service Center as part of our business in Long Beach. We service several 400s so could do your annual. We do a lot of Cessna twin maintenance and sales so always have them around. Give me a call or e-mail if you have other questions.
@@FlyingwithRich Thanks so much! I just found your company website and maintenance contact email so I will be reaching out today!
Look forward to meeting you!
What a beautiful plane! I m impressed by your ability to jump from one plane to another that easy! How does the endorsement work? Can you fly any of those whenever you want even if you have not flown a specific plane for a long time?
Thanks. The jets require type specific license with annual recurrent training. Most of the rest of the aircraft I fly have insurance requirements that I have to meet as well.
Thanks Flying with Rich
Thank you!
@@FlyingwithRich what plane would you recommend for 4 adults, 300nm once a month and 650 twice a year. Leas than 200 nm weeky. Cirrus, bonanza, baron or M350? Thanks
Let me think about that. I’ll get back to you.
Great airplane! Seriously, the hardest thing about flying it is slowing it down. What a great plane for going far, fast, and in style 😎
Totally agree! Thanks for watching!
They came with standard with speed brakes and and actually climb (well) with them deployed, personal experience.
Nice video Rich. I get you say how fast the Corvallis is but you have a power setting of 23.3 gph and a CHT of 418? That is super hot for me and seems like way to much FF. 193KTS TAS at 10,500 is awesome but I think you’ll go through cylinders a lot faster than if you lean for LOP. What is the TAS and peak CHT at 50 LOP?
We were running at a max cruise setting. You could definitely fly LOP but it would cost you probably 20 kts. We will try that text time we get a chance to fly one! People I know fly them at a high power setting most of the time since they don't go for distance.
An evolution of the Lancair 4P certified with fixed gear. Awesome plane but would have been a game changer if they made a RG variant which the plane screams of wanting. Super slick airplane that could be put back into production with the right investors im thinking.
I misspoke in the video - I said it started as the Columbia 300 when it was actually the Lancair 300/400. Seems like the manufacturers determined RGs not worth the weight. 400 and SR22T give the Mooney’s a run for the money with fixed gear. Thanks for watching and comments.
@@FlyingwithRich Yes the plane's so slick retracting the gear wouldn't give you much more.
Fixed gear don't add much drag if faired properly. But they do add a lot of weight (reducing useful load), a lot of insurance cost and a lot of maintenance cost.
Would love to see a video flying the TTX and a look at the G2000 panel. Thanks for all of the great content!
We will work on it! Thank you!
Yes please make a video on the differences of the 400 versus the TTX! Its seems like the price delta between the 2 aircraft is $150,000 to $200,000. Is the G2000 system worth the extra money?
I haven’t looked at that market recently but that seems like a high price delta. My opinion is G2000 is not worth that much money. It’s a great system, and new interior and heating/AC as well. Thanks for watching!
@@FlyingwithRich Thanks Rich. Perhaps the sales prices I’ve seen are not truly reflective of actual purchase prices. Thanks for the insight 👍🏻
👍🏼
A T-handle throttle would've been a nice touch.
Agree. Thanks for watching.
Vernier on the MP control…..nice feature. Why the C182T does not have this feature is anyone’s guess.
Patrick from Albuquerque
Good question.
TTX is no worse than Cirrus, and in some moments, even better for an experienced pilot!
A great car for less money!
Hello and Thanks Rich. I heard when Cessna bought Columbia they assured the locals that production would remain in Oregon. ...but after some time, production was moved to Mexico. Then I heard there was delamination problems with the fabric layup and this obviously hurt sales, etc. Then TTX production was stopped. Does anyone know if this is true? Also, i think most of us know why the Klappmier* brothers put a parachute in the Cirrus. But, my experience is most pilots with a lot of time don't want to carry around that extra 60 lbs. and pay for the expensive repack. Do you experienced pilots have this feeling? I believe the wives, girlfriends, and lower time pilots support the parachute. I've heard the Columbia flies better than the Cirrus. Is that most of your experience? Take Care and keep flying.
I would agree with most of what you write about Cessna/Columbia. I think TTx production stopped mostly due to lack of demand due Cirrus’ dominance of that market which was driven in my opinion mostly by the parachute. But, Cirrus also has a roomier interior and easier to get in and out of. Cirrus also now has a better useful load so hard to argue people don’t like the additional weight of parachute. I would agree Columbia is better “flying” airplane.
Its a beautiful Aircraft but the only thing with Cessna is I hate those power knobs, do they make with power throttles.
👍👍👍👍👍
I believe TTx stood for "Too, Too, xpensive"
Haha never heard that one before.
Bring it back plz
Shame they shut this down, had they made a few improvements I think they could still be in the hunt! Useful load hurt it more than lack of parachute in my opinion.
Useful load around 1000 lbs as I remember - 106 gal fuel. Reduce fuel load to 2 hours+ reserve gets you almost 600lbs of people & bags. It’s a great airplane but in my opinion not enough there to compete with Cirrus with or without chute. Useful load certainly an issue especially after Cirrus raised the GW on the 22. Cirrus had a lot of momentum in the market by the time Cessna bought it as well.
@@FlyingwithRich
Yep, hard to stop momentum, especially that of a freight-train-ha!!
That’s for sure!
They got in the ring with Mike tyson( cirrus) and thought they were Buster Douglas. Lol
@@mauriceevans6546
Back in my ole pro stock motorcycle racing days, you only out run your opponent just enough so it was a close win, keeps um coming back for more.
If you just smoked um from the get go, they wouldn’t race you again. I would have hoped the TTX would’ve stayed in the game a little longer, then who knows what both planes would be today with a little competition….
👍
Can you fly these planes to the Caribbean without stopping to refuel?
Rich , what would be your power setting to get the best speed and efficiency at 12000 and 14000, we are in Aurora Colorado . I have the perf charts and it seems to me that you need to fly at 71% or better and 19 gals an hour to get 200 knts . However I would love to know your opinion.
To get 200 KTAS I think you’ll need to be at the top of the green on both MP and RPM (seems like 31” 2500 RPM from memory). I normally lean for TIT in the 1550 -1600 range and then adjust based on cylinder temps. I fly a lot of different airplanes so I am always liberal on fuel flow. If not happy with CHT’s, more fuel or less power. I know it’s blasphemous, but I don’t mind higher CHTs (stay in the green) in cruise as long as steady and give the engine a slow cool down. In my opinion, good practice on any airplane engine regardless of how hot it gets. Also, give it plenty of time to cool/spin down after landing (book says 2 minutes I think). I’m jealous - a 400 operating out of Colorado!
Rich thanks for your advice on cruise . We may have more questions. If so I will call you . Come visit us in Colorado . I was a Pilot in the Marine Corps stationed some at MCAS El Toro when it was open. Loved my time there .
Will do. 562 413-3251
I'd love to build a Lancair 4p with wings and tail of the Cirrus G6. Throw in a chute and call it a fast safe plane.
I call that a LX7 aircraft.
Rich,
Apples to apples, why is the Columbia 400 and Cessna 400 less expensive than the Cirrus SR22T? From my perspective, the 400 presents tremendous value…is a parachute worth that much more? Mike Brown, Chattanooga,TN
In my opinion the parachute really put Cirrus in a class by themselves. They have similar performance and Cirrus did a better job making improvements - added the third seat, higher gross weight and always ahead on their version of the G1000. Cessna gave one last push with the TTx but just not enough. I like the 400’s and if Cessna keeps supporting them well, I think they are a great value.
@@FlyingwithRichHow many of Cirrus drivers have passed thinking the parachute would save them no matter what?
Me: Mom can I have a cirrus. Mom: No we have cirrus at home. *Cirrus at home*
Have you made a video of the airplane flying at 235kts?
I took it to 250 a long time ago. I wish I would have made a video or taken a pic. Maybe a video in the future about high performance piston performance in the Flight Levels! Thanks for watching!
@@FlyingwithRich sounds good
I'm interested in your opinion as an experienced aviator, how does the feel of the sidestick compare to the Cirrus?
Side stick on the 400 is set up like a control stick where the Cirrus is a yoke mounted on the side instead of the middle position like most aircraft. I prefer a stick controller over yoke on any aircraft but I’m probably on the lunatic fringe in that regard. As far as feel, my opinion, I much prefer the 400 stick than the yoke on the Cirrus in terms of ability to make smoother inputs, etc. I would also say these are cross country aircraft and most of the time auto pilot use so not sure it really matters that much how the control feel is and it’s not that the Cirrus feel is bad either. It’s a very nice flying aircraft in my opinion.
@@FlyingwithRich Thanks Rich, I appreciate you taking the time to reply. I'm a stick man too!
Ive heard the noise inside the cabin on this aircraft is way lower than the Cirrus, is that true?
I can’t tell any difference and if I were guessing would say they are very close to the same noise levels in the cabin if measured. Bose headsets takes care of it!
Interesting to see how they copied Cirrus in the sidestick, clean, automotive looking instrument panel. Pretty sure had Cirrus not been there, it would have a yoke and have an old school panel design. Well, the aircraft itself would probably not exist then.
The Columbia is was designed and built (with sidestick) before Cirrus was ever conceived. The Cessna rendition is not a "copy".
Still feel safer in a diamond aircraft!
What was the co-pilot checklist? I couldn't see it clearly on my phone.
1. Don't touch anything and 2. keep your mouth shut. Not sure if I agree with the second one. I'd want all eyes on deck looking for traffic or anything abnormal.
@@FlyingwithRich Thanks.
25 gph holy heck
To bad they didn’t (and probably couldn’t maybe), liquid cool that power plant
They would do better in sales if they were more affordable. I make 80k a year and can't afford one. Plane would be perfect for what I would use it for.
I agree.Tough to make it work at prices more people could afford. Thanks for watching.
Am I wrong in thinking that a Cirrus does everything this can do and adds a parachute?
The Cirrus isn't as fast and it doesn't handle quite as well as the Cessna 400. The controls are a lot stiffer in the Cirrus. Cessna 400 owners that I've talked to also just prefer the interior design, button layout, sidestick vs the Cirrus controls. The parachute made the Cirrus the "better" all around plane, that's why they dominate that market. At the end it might be a BMW vs Mercedes "which is better?" comparison.
@@FlyingwithRich Thanks!
If only it stayed in production Cirrus needs a competitor.
Mooney not making high performance aircraft? Acclaim Ultra?
Not currently in production as far as I know.
Tell me. SR22T or Cessna 400 ?
just to mention....Cesnna 400 is the utility category airframe......
That’s true. In my opinion, they are both great airplanes. I don’t think you can argue against the added safety factor of having CAPS which to me has attracted a lot of people in to GA flying that may not have done it without CAPS. I like the way the 400 flies more than the Cirrus but they are both cross country machines and autopilot use most of the time so clearly not a factor for most people. The market says Cirrus is the best aircraft!
Do you prefer flying this to the Cirrus ?
Both great airplanes and not much negative on either one. Pure flying - I prefer the “real” control stick instead of side yoke on Cirrus. Cirrus much easier to get into and later versions have higher useful load. You. Couldn’t go wrong in either way. If I were in the market for this type airplane, I would definitely evaluate both.
Too many commercial breaks to make this worth watching !
Thanks for the feedback but unfortunately we cannot chose how many ads CZcams may post. I wish we could reduce the amount of ads.
Dear Rich,
Do you like flying a “stick”?
I prefer stick control over yoke, but it’s not a major thing for me. Just like flying in general!
Why was the engine misfiring?
Great pilots make it look like any bumpkin could do it.......
There is a good reason the Cessna 400 and TTX failed....it was up against the far superior Cirrus SR22 and SR22T.
Both great airplanes - GA needs more competition and successful aircraft not less!
@@FlyingwithRich You may know the story. This plane started as the Lancair designed Columbia 350. Cessna bought it and renamed it the Corvallis 350 (built them in Corvallis, OR). Cessna upgraded the Columbia with a glass panel and made enough changes to rename the 350 to be the 400. The first 400 developed fuel leaks due to delamination of the carbon wing tanks and ended up with an FAA Emergency AD on all of the 350s and the first seven 400s still sitting on the production line. Cessna worked with the FAA and redesigned their carbon process to fix the issue and started to deliver 400s in 2010. Cessna renamed the 400 to be the Corvallis TT in 2011 and later settled on the name TTx later than same year.
Cirrus and the Columbia were nearly identical airframe designs and both pioneering in the use of carbon fiber in aviation. They also both used the NASA design wing which gave improved stall characteristics. Cirrus also incorporated the first ballistic airframe parachutes into their initial product, the SR20. Over time Cirrus continued to improve their product with the SR22 and SR22T. Cessna stuck with the single model and offered non and turbo charged engines. But no chute. Eventually, the lack of the chute and a ton of other details gave Cirrus the win. And Cessna finally stopped making the TTx in 2018. Cirrus also buried Mooney in the same way, except Mooney was a metal aircraft and a very old design.
Cirrus dominated the piston single market. Cirrus also bent their pick getting the VLJ to market. So they had to sell the company to a Chinese conglomerate to avoid going under and to get the funds needed to finish the jet. Now Cirrus dominates the VLJ market too.
Will anyone overtake Cirrus in the piston single market (like Diamond, which is also owned by the Chinese) or the Panthera from Pipistrel? Doubtful.
No, the Columbia is a better performer and safer despite no BRS. CCP money saved Cirrus.
I owned 1268F for 7 years. Never, not once did the plane fly 235 knots true. Absolutely impossible. 214-217 was it’s max. Empty plane.
Interesting. Have you ever mentioned that to Cessna?
More than 50 times. Every time they tell me that some of the versions are faster than others. I had TKS anti icing system. they said this causes 4-8 knots slower True speed.
@@erikj.nuveenmddmd6557 Sounds like you were more than 4-8 knots away from 235 KTAS though. That's unfortunate. We will hopefully get to try that again sometime soon and we'll see!
Now that would have been a disappointment. With such a big difference it's surprising they didn't investigate, given the degree that could negatively affect its reputation.
I believe they had very little interest in assisting me toward that goal. It was investigated multiple times and the final statement was that some of the planes are slower than others and mine was just a “slower one”.
It's not a Cessna it is a Lancair and will always be a Lancair. Only because Lancair was bought by Cessna does not make it a Cessna!
I guess Textron/Cessna would argue that point and since they paid for the company, I think they have the right to call it whatever they want! Beechraft bought Mitsubishi's MU300 Diamond and made it a Beechjet. Hawker bought Beechcraft and made it a Hawker 400.
Airframe and avionics from 2008, engine performance from 1935. General Aviation is like putting lipstick on a pig. No offense to pigs.
Thanks for watching!
Not a big fan of either this plane or the Cirrus. 👎🏼👎🏼
Why not? I am curious.
@@FlyingwithRich Probably not a pilot.
I would like to see a single designed around the lyc. Io. 720 .
I would like to “see” that too but probably not likely!