Casing Windows - Dealing With Bad Drywall Situations Part 2
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- čas přidán 23. 07. 2019
- This is part 2 of how to deal with uneven jambs and drywall when casing doors and windows. These are the most common techniques and tools that I use when casing windows and doors.
Bessey KRE3512 REVOlution Parallel Clamp, 12"
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WoodRiver Miter Max Corner Clamp - geni.us/aWo9b on Amazon (commissions earned)
Jorgensen 2-pack Parallel Jaw Bar Clamp Set - Cabinet Master, 12-inch
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Jet 70412-2 12" Parallel Clamp 2 Pack
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Titan Tools 11505 5-1/2" Mini Pry Bar
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Prime Source 8F1 8D, 2-1/2" Bright Finish Nail
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NATIONAL NAIL 58198 LB16D Bright Finish Nail
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Absolutely love watching professionals that love their craft..... I learn so much from you!
I've been waiting for this one, thanks. Excellent tips, I can finish the casing around my door now. . .two years later. Sad, I know.
I agree with you on the trim guns. I use 16g and 18g . Been using bostitch for 30yrs. Love the new models. Great techniques, always handy to have a bag of tricks with you. Especially because finish guys are the guality control on everything these days.
Great videos, never too long or too short but packed full of info. Great clamp thanks for the link
Thanks for another great video and thanks for actually posting solutions to real life issues on the jobsite.
This guy's work is something to admire. Thank you for sharing man!
Hell yeah. His attention to detail is what I love. I have ocd and want to make everything perfect and he has shown me so many different things to do it faster or better.
When pre-drilling for hand drive nails, I cut the head off one and chuck it in my drill. It leaves a perfectly sized hole. Drill bits work too of course but always good to have options.
Great work! Thanks for taking the time to explain your technique.
I appreciate your professional, unscripted, matter of fact, no nonsense delivery of your trade techniques. It takes a considerable amount of time to organize, produce, and narrate these videos. Thank you for sharing and demonstrating your best practice methods for efficiency, production, and profit. Do you often have to fabricate and/or install interior extension jambs for those Anderson Windows? I noticed only because the extension jambs (in some shots)were clear pine. Keep up the great work!
Great tips! I learn something from you every time.
I noticed that my local hardware store has a drywall hammer on sale. Since I use screws and knives for cutting and mounting my drywall, I wasn't going to buy it, but, since it has a hatchet instead of a claw, it would be great for removing the drywall around a jamb for your technique. I watched a worker doing an arch with one and it was amazing how he trimmed the drywall with the cutting side of the hammer even easier than a knife or saw.
I use the nail as a drill bit to produce the exact size hole when doing this.
Just cut the head off your chosen finish nail and load it into your drill.
It will ream out the trim and jam perfectly and make hammering it a breeze. When you set the nail it will draw everything tight and never split.
Been installing for two years. This is great advice
Been in the trade over 20 years. This info is priceless.
Would love to see your method of hanging the pre-assembled casings on the windows. By the way love your videos, can't get enough great job!!!
I learned so much from this two episode series. As just a DIY'er I'm embarrassed to say I have always just caulked the sh!t out of any gaps.
You can only caulk if it's painted otherwise your using woodfiller an that don't look the greatest
@@jbstepchild Filling an entire casing with wood filler would be a pain in the arse.
Thank you for the videos and I enjoy watching your tips.
I have learned so many tips from you, thank you
You saved my life today with this video. Thanks man!!!!!
Happy to help. 👍👊
@@InsiderCarpentry Iv been following you for a while, learn a lot from you pal. 😊👍🏼
When it's proud like that I've used my multi tool and went under the paper and taken out some of the drywall and then fit my casing with Brad nails
In Canada the acousti seal around the windows for the poly pushes the drywall proud of the jamb a lot.
I just cringe every time I see drywall beat out like that, I’ve done it hundreds of times and I still cringe ..... I began carrying my own caulk and didn’t wait for the painter to do it, sometimes the painter didn’t like me doing that but I would rather have it look right. I’ve also been known to rip jamb extensions to fit and then caulked the back of the casing at the drywall. You make it look good Spencer, keep up the good work.
@JDawes - I've watched hundreds of CZcams videos and it's odd that there is no general rule on who caulks. Different areas of the country, different custom. I moved from NW Ohio where the carpenters caulk, to SW Florida where the painters caulk. One of the first houses I painted - nothing was caulked and I stood there with that WTF look. It took 2 guys 3 days to caulk. The first and only time I ever had to an ask an owner for more money. Just based on my little experience as a painter, I find the quality of workmanship is waaaay better in Ohio. Maybe when the carpenter has to caulk his own work, he takes more time to get the fit better.
Caulk and a 1" or small putty knife, works great for proud or recessed gaps.
Fingers give it the concaved look, which looks bad. Putty knife makes it perfectly flat.
You could try clamping a 2 x 4 against the trim through the window so it applies pressure to the part you can't reach with a clamp and drive shims between it and the trim for more pressure. It's hard to say if it would be faster or easier.
God bless you dude!
For anyone that doesn't already know- if you hit the sharp end of the nail with u our hammer and blunt it before you hammer it in it won't split the wood as easily.
Hey, when youre using the hand banger finish nails for trim, put a nail in your drill and make your holes where you wanna use those nails, pre drill everything and when you use the nails, you have exact size starter holes
I love your channel, I've learned a ton. The biggest problem I have as a DIYer is hanging the doors so that you have a perfectly square jamb. I end up having to custom cut the miters. I don't hang doors often enough to develop a good technique. I'd love to see your process so that I can do it properly.
A good long level goes a long way... personally, as a fellow DIYer, I'd fix one side straight, plumb & square with the header & use a spacer to ensure the width is the same all down the frame on the other side before shimming it...
Theres different ways to do it, the professionals would probably frown on my process but I DO end up with it being accurate (I'm a retired machinist so I have a natural tendency to precision first😏) ... the biggest thing is to strive to get it right rather than messing with mitre angles later... if the angles need "tuning" then your frames is off-square... fix that first....
Being DIYers, we aren't "on the clock" so theres no hurry...
It will make you become a better craftsman , even if others never get to see your trials & tribulations..😂... its how we learn & improve... good luck !!
From the Emerald Isle
😎👍☘️🍺
Awesome video
I’ve put the trim on the wall and traced the proud places out with a pencil. Either beat it flush with a hammer or cut it all the way out if need be. Love those Anderson windows! Especially the wood/ clad eagle series, they definitely deserve all the extra time making them perfect.
Thats what I do... Simple, quick, and easy
Only problem with that is the reveal on the outside edge of the casing won't be consistent.
I enjoy your tips , Thanks
When we need to pull the casing in , you use a 16d nail . We use a 2-1/2" GRK finish screw . The pulling power is amazing and the hole is the same size
I find that the trim head screws just pull through the wood.
You answered my question here. Thanks. I found that to be often the case as well. I’ll stock up on the nails.
As a framer/drywall hanger, I know us, and finish carpenters just don't get along; I believe it all started way back in the day when someone said something about somebody's momma, and it just hasn't worked itself out ever since.
As a flooring guy we hate everyone lol. Electricians leave wire everywhere, drywall guys leave mud everywhere, framers for obvious reasons. Come to think of it I can’t remember plumbers ever doing anything to bother. We are all a big family regardless
Window guys don’t like shotty stucco guys. Scratching up the exterior finish on the doors and windows by not properly covering with a thick tarp.
@@ToolforOffice I'm a flooring guy, 34 years in commercial and residential resilient flooring and stone. I have plenty of bitching about plumbers and their 5-inch f****** pipe in 4-inch walls making drywall bulge out so that when you have to install stone on the walls you get to deal with that crap. But you're right, one big happy f****** family. But only in the sense that I would defend the contractor over a homeowner any day of the week. Even though contractors f****** stupid. Love your comment though. LMAO.
Nice job,brings back memories of when I lived and worked in the US. Do those windows still have the springbox in the heads?
Nice video
I deal with these problems also. I take my multi tool and cut the drywall back about an inch and a half . Alot of times I find expanding foam that did not get cut back and the lazy drywalled cuts the board so tight to the jamb that it holds the drywall out . Its definitely an aggravation.
hey Brah, I enjoy a lot your videos! Man you always bring us real tips that we can truly use daily. I really appreciate that! I just started to follow you! interior finish! keep going! Your tricks and the way you teach is simply awesome! thank you!
You got it!
that bostich smartpoint is my fave 18g i've ever used
Same here man. I've got the Dewalt version of the smart point, in the 15 gauge finish gun and it's equally as impressive. If it's making contact, it's firing a nail.
Nice tips for painted trim. A bit problematic for stained or brightwork.
Also, the scissor nailing is good when there is no gap ie..when you can clamp before fastening.
When using the fastener to draw the work, they need to go in straight.
Finish screws are far superior to nails ( except ring-shank) for drawing tight. The trick is to pre-drill to shank diameter in the casing only.
At least that is what I have found.
I've found a hand driven finish nail actually pulls better whereas a trim screws tends to pull right through.
@@InsiderCarpentry Not to be argumentative... if I were to use a finish nail to draw in the work, it would be dipped galvanized not bright. You sure have excellent results so you are doing things right. I'm just expressing my experience.
[{( See 2:22 of this video.😉)}]
Something we do is get in before drywall and plane studs to make sure the drywall doesn't sit proud of the window jambs. Can be a pain in the butt but it's worth it
Scissor me timbers! Great tip!
I know this is done often I’ve seen multiple videos like this. But I just learned to hang, mud, and finish drywall in my basement and I absolutely refuse to bust it up around the windows. I’ll keep looking. There has to be a better way.
That's straight up what professionals do take a piece of casing mark a line with your knife so that when the casing goes on you can't see this isn't bush league is just what you do. You can plane or belt sand your casing on the back or rip a groove back there on your table saw good luck god bless you!
If you installed the drywall then it should be right to start with, but if not you can simply cut and remove it completely, leaving a half or three quarters under the outside edge of the casing.
For the typical home user. Would you preprint that before hanging? Or just paint in place once hung? 2 coats?
Great series on windows! Do you plan to make a video in the future on hanging doors?
Definitely.
So what's the reason why the window and drywall aren't lining up?
1. Bad framers installing windows?
2. Bad drywallers?
3. Bashing out the drywall is really a viable solution?
Great video! And tips.... some are so bad we just add extension jambs. We try to get into a house before drywallers go in and adjust all window. A lot of the time it’s just cleaning the foam that was spayed in or just breaking off shims that’s are left from installation. Our dry wallers just go over all that stuff making everything proud.
This video has 22 dislikes from the window Lobby. Nice work man.
Breaking the sheetrock out is a good alternative but we just cut the trim a little longer and use a low angle plane to adjust the miter ...no caulk needed. Time is money but all your procedures work too.
Hand plane is a great method when assembling piece by piece on the window. I like to preassembling and that’s probably part of why I take the approach I do. 👍
Shore leave it for the painter, great stuff as usual
covering paneling with 3/8” sheetrock. The sheet rock is proud by the 3/8” should I cut a shim and glue it to the window jamb?
Hope your finger is better soon. Mike
Would this work for trimming doors also?
I can't believe Im telling you a tip but instead of the nails try some GRK #8 trim screws they are about the exact head size and will really pull that trim in. the actually sell them at HD. I use them for the exact purpose and they really apply pressure vs a non threaded nail. Thanks again for the great tips!!!
Theres actually quite a bit more pulling with a hand driven nail IMO. I feel like the trim screw just pulls right through the wood.
@@InsiderCarpentry No worries you do more in a day than I do in a year!
When my boss taught me to trim and said you need to “relive the drywall” , me thinking 🤔 this was a highly technical process, then watching him smash the drywall with a hammer ......
Hi, your videos are so helpful. But one question, why not using the grk trim screws instead if 16d finish nail?
Believe it or not I don't find them to have as much pulling/holding power as a nail.
Break-off screws made for fixing squeaky hardwood floors?
I can't help but think the laws of physics are eventually going to back those nails out a little, allowing the casing to make it's way back to where it wants to be to follow the wall, and you end up with detached caulking. Maybe not year 1, but by year 3? 5?
Great informative video! How do you feel about pre-painting trim, prior to installation if possible? Obviously if you are doing production work you are likely followed by the next trade (painter) in most cases, but if you were able to have the trim pr-painted do you see any value in that?
Can't beat a site sprayed finish in place.
Wouldn't a finishing screw be the best choice? It'll give you all the pull you want with full control using slowest speed
Trim screws work beautiful for pulling shit tight
Great tips! Do you ever use trim head screws to pull things tight? Seems like they might do even better than the nails.
I was thinking the same thing. Like the grk trim head screws. Seems like a good application. Not sure personally, but it makes sense to me. I'd be interested in hearing pros/cons in using them.
@@Jikktastic i was wondering the same thing. Like the clamp technique where it works.
They don't have much "pulling" power. The trim nails kind of harness the power behind the hammer blows to pull things in. I don't think the trim head screws would do much personally. They tend to pull through the wood pretty easily.
@@InsiderCarpentry I have on occasion done the abominable homie thing and used regular 10g common nails by predrilling and sinking them with a punch, followed by spackling, as I'm usually also the painter. Haven't really split a casing yet, but for any small cracks, I stabilize with 18g Brad's and again, spackling.
I like the cut nail suggestion, may want to keep a few on my truck!
When you are just using the brad nailer what size brads do you use. Do you nail the outer and inner edge of the casing too?
Let me start by saying you do excellent work, love the rolled miter and crown stitching tip videos. Do these windows have any kind of aluminum flashing/ sealant? Doesn’t using the clamp to pull the window into the plane of the drywall break every exterior seal in that spot?
It depends when I am there as to whether there is siding on or not. Most of the time you're actually pulling the drywall in towards the window. After the window is actually installed and foamed they don't move much. I have pulled them in in really bad situations but generally try not to move them that much. Typically a little clamp pressure is all it takes to tighten the the whole assembly up.
@@InsiderCarpentry Gotcha, thanks for the reply. I usually am doing replacement window jobs and when you brought that clamp out I had a mini heart attack lol. The nailing flange on new construction windows really seems like a great idea put into this context
Who could possibly leave a dislike. Those 7 people might need a new channel.
I just wanna learn to hammer like that!
Nice Safety Shoes. HAHA
My bad, I meant shouldn't the thinner side should be towards the window?
Question: can't you screw the drywall edges to the rough framing to pull it flush? Were the jambs installed too deep into the rough opening?
Its simpler just to use the clamp. A drywall screw doesn't have any pulling power to suck the drywall in if there is resistance for some reason.
@@InsiderCarpentry yea, I can see that now, when I think about it, too much force and the paper will tear and pull through the gypsum.
on beaded trim only the bead should be mitered
@@cmmartti i dont buy beaded casing i make it
so what do you do after you break the proud drywall do you leave in empty behind the wood?
Yes. It will never be seen and doesn’t matter if it’s gone.
Why not pre drill then use a trim screw to pull the casing tight to the jamb?
Theres actually quite a bit more pulling with a hand driven nail IMO. I feel like the trim screw just pulls right through the wood.
Have you ever tried using trim head screws in place of those finishing nails? If so, what are your thoughts on them?
Theres actually quite a bit more pulling with a hand driven nail IMO. I feel like the trim screw just pulls right through the wood.
@@InsiderCarpentry I think the impact of the hammer really helps. It simultaneously bounces the piece tighter and drives the nail in. Similar to flushing up two 2x12s where one has a larger crown with a hand driven toenail.
Try to score the drywall on the top where it’s proud. Sinking the casing into the drywall won’t be noticeable and it will allow the casing to sit flat. I’ll be trying the clamp method for the lowers.
Caulk and paint will make it what it ain’t.
I've never done this type of work, but how common is it that the drywaller leaves the sheet rock proud and causes more work for the next guy - or was it a tradesman before him that caused this such as due to warped studs?
Its usually a little of everything, bad material, bad framing, bad drywall, bad window install...A little of everything compounds.
The issue is also that of the millworks industry in general (in my opinion). Jambs seem to be manufactured the exact theoretical size of the opening for stud width plus drywall thicknesses. Any irregularity in the framing, that is bowed studs, headers slightly protruding, or drywall mud build up cause this problem. This has been all too common in my world. A simple fix would be to make jamb widths about one eighth inch wider. Much easier to have a very small gap on the back of the casing which could easily be shimmed and caulked necessary.
Whenever I build jambs or cased openings for custom applications in high end remodeling I always send them out wider. Hope that helps.
My new window frames are almost flush with the the open studs . Is this what I’d have to do to make the sheet rock meet up with the window frames ? I need help ..
I hope u are talking wood windows just add jamb extensions.
Hella lot better that 5/8 worth of caulk
Do you ever use 15ga nails for casing?
are window sills not typical in your region?
Just depends on preference.
For me doing a relief rabbit with a portable planer is sufficient. Messy as it maybe it is a Le to absorb so many of the bad framing/window install deficiencies.
Every house I trim the windows are like this, these window manufacturers need to add an 1/8 to 1/4 to jamb depths
No the framer needs to learn to set a window correctly.
By using a clamp to move the window you risk breaking the foam seal and moving the window out of wack.
Instead of just pry out base to keep it straight use your square on the wall to see how much shim is needed and glue in a piece with some adhesive. That way the corner stays straight and tight.
If drywallers had to install base molding, they would never put the tapered edges on the bottom....better technique...half sheet up to the ceiling, full sheet in the middle and a half sheet on the floor....yeah yeah yeah I can hear the drywallers bitch that it is more labor and would take them longer and the tapers will bitch about another seam...the electricians would really like it because the light switch boxes won't be full of mud
Wouldn’t finish screws work better and be easier? Hope you are able to reply. Thanks, fantastic learning as always.
They aren't strong enough. Generally they will just pull through the wood and leave a large hole.
Instead of 16p nails, why not trim screws?
I notice you are using a Bostich nailer with Smart Point tip. I like how the tip works, but it never stays working, I have been through two Bostich nailers and they both start misfiring after 1 month of use. How are yours working out?
Mine have been great. Its the only 18 gauge I use. I have no idea how many boxes i've put through them and they just keep going. I've had bad luck with the more expensive brands so I stick with the bostitch. I use senco nails.
@@InsiderCarpentry Grex all day..3years with only 2 nail jambs..best nailer I've ever used
I've had the Bostich 18 gauge smart point for a few years now and I've only had a couple of jams in all that time, after probably hundreds of boxes of nails
Its crazy. I have my own grex graveyard handing on my shop wall of faulty grex nailers. I'll never buy a grex again.
@@InsiderCarpentry I do have a Grex 625 pin nailer and I've never had a seconds problem with that one
Have you ever tried using screws?
What about finish screws?
I find they just pull through the wood. I prefer hand driven nails.
Could you just re set the window?
Try using cut nails. That’s what I use. They won’t split the casing and have a ton of holding power. I have used them in the past to close a 3/8 gap! I use 16D. Let me know if it works for you.
I definitely will try some. Thanks for the tip!
Please tell me you didn't stand on that 3 step ladder without locking the spreader bar in place. Safety First.
Do you charge extra when you have to mess around with these problems?
Not unless its a major issue throughout the house. Its reasonable to expect to work through some issues. Nothing is perfect in construction when I get to work on it at trim stage, so some degree of fixing stuff is built into the price.
@@InsiderCarpentry
Thanks for your reply.
You are a kinder man than me. I am a carpenter from Australia, I used to fix these problems for no charge when I was younger.
However I soon realised that averaged over a twelve month period I was working days/weeks for free.
Now I bill by the minute to fix other guys mistakes/lazyness (a lot of the time it's just pure lazyness), some guys get the point and improve their quality. While others just continue to be back-charged for me to fix their work.
I do practice what I preach though, I always say that if my work is faulty or problematic - that it's only fair that I am also charged for repairs.
To this day I have never received a back-charge for any of my work.
I love your work and these are great tips.
I do have a question though: we have a proud door jamb, but the jamb is aluminium, so I can't plane it down. It's proud by quite a bit and we have flat casings, so I can't roll the miter.
My idea was to maybe plane down the back of the casing (the part that meets the jamb), until the rest of the casing touches the drywall.
It will make the casing look less "thick" on the inside, but I'm assuming that's the best I can do in this situation?
Another option would be to add a backband that is thicker than other backbands, around all the casings.
Would love your opinion!
I think ripping a strip and adding it to the back of your casing is a good way of dealing with that situation. if it's paint grade, and you glue the strips on, no one will notice. If your casing is fairly thick already, (5/8'') or more, you could cut the edge down where it meets the jamb. like a rabbet.
@@cliftonobrien588 That's a good idea too, just beef up the back a bit and/or thin down the inside.
Makes sense, thanks!
@@ReinierKaper yeah no big deal when its just one door to do. I've had a dozen vinyl windows in a house that were 1/2'' proud and that took some time lol
@@cliftonobrien588 Oh boy, I don't envy you haha!
I'll probably go for a back band as well (because I like the style), but with the same solution, just add an extra piece to the back and trim it all flush!
@@ReinierKaper Nice. It'll look great!
That’s a skinny wall or the flange on that window is very far out. My 2x4 framed walls with Anderson windows have about 2” from the sash to the outside of the sheet rock.
When the framers frame the house, they may nail the doublers out of a flush and when the OSB is cut around the opening it exposes a raw surface that expands.Add those two things can a makeup 1/4''. or more.
Still all windows I see in the north east need extension jams as part of the finished carpentry.
It's not a bad drywall job, It's a bad framing job. Speak to the framers and tell them to do a better job of keeping their joints flush. That said, this is as good a method as any to try to cover up bad framing.
Beating the drywall just looks so much like butchery, I know its accepted practice and all but.... 😱
Btw... I hope yer pointing-finger is feeling better.... 🙄😂
(No reflection on your work, which I enjoy learning from ... )
😎👍☘️🍺
Plus if you hit them straight in the yuh can deflect left to right...
Why not use trim screws?? The head is about the size of a trim nail.
Trim screws actually end up pulling through the casing and don't pull it in. I know it seems counter intuitive but hand drive finish nails actually work better.
Used trim screws and your 100% right... that’s why your the best man thanks
Now if Andersen would make windows 4 9/16" not 4 1/2" this why it's a common problem.
You got that hand nail tip from Chicago carpenter didn’t you..
Along with countless other things. Justin has been more of a mentor to me than probably everyone else combined. 👍
Insider Carpentry that dude is a great follow. The sharing of information is a beautiful thing. I must say though your miter fold tip was mind blowing. You’ve been an awesome resource I really enjoy your videos.
Point me to Justin's channel. Thanks
We call them Shim bars
Just roll the miter cut on the trim and you won't need to beat up the wall. Measure the width your casing is proud of the drywall, cut a shim of that thickness on your table saw. Place the shim under the inside edge of the casing while its flat on the miter saw and cut your 45 degree angle then repeat and cut on the opposing trim casing. Your trim out will look like a million bucks! But not with use with flat casing!
Not with flat casing. Rolling miters with flat casing looks terrible after paint.
Does the rolling miter technique work if the drywall is proud in just one corner near the miter?
It's that fj poplar?
Yes