ACC Reconstruction Coming: What's Next for Big 12?
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- čas přidán 22. 06. 2024
- As has been reported in recent days, ACC reconstruction may not be all that far off, so Heartland College Sports host Pete Mundo reacts to the news and discusses what this all means for the Big 12 Conference!
If you're a Big 12 fan, sign up for our FREE Heartland forums and get to interact and know other awesome Big 12 fans: www.heartlandcollegesports.co... - Sport
The Big 12 is the guy that owns a fully loaded Lexus, lives in an above par gated neighborhood, wears an Omega watch, has a medium hot wife, great kids, but is on the cusp of becoming the guy that is on the outside looking in at high society. What if everything he has is ok? A blue collar worker once asked a millionaire what is was like to be a millionaire, the millionaire asked him to take out his wallet and count the money that was in it. Turned out the blue collar guy had $25 in his wallet, the millionaire smiled and said that's how many problems you have. It's a matter of perspective. I like the Big 12. I feel like this conference has appeal, it has parity and people want to watch it. Sometimes less is more. There’s something to not getting the brakes beat out of you by Alabama every week. That said, i want to expand and get to 20 teams. Give me Miami, Louisville Pitt, and Virginia Tech. It still doesnt make us compete with Alabama or Michigan, but it does make them nervous and I'm ok with making them nervous.
I would prefer NC State over Miami for the reasons you mentioned. Miami would feel like the “crown jewel” of the conference and recruits would flock creating a team that’s favored to win every year. NC State would keep the mosh pit in the big12 alive.
@techtiger: Which one SEC team had the breaks beat out of them by Alabama every week? Hmmm. Perhaps you exaggerated a bit as not one SEC team got beat by Alabama EVERY week. You make me laugh 🤣
@@DavidM442 pull your bottom lip over your head and swallow.
@DavidM442 For years, one team got the brakes beat out of them by Alabama every week in the SEC. It was just a different team each week, but each week, one team fell to 'Bama, usually by a bunch.
Why would Tier 2 ACC flight risks move to the new BIG12?
thanks for NOT making Big 12 clickbait videos everyday like one particular outlet, Pete. Wreckem
Thank YOU, Christian.... I don't even watch them, so I don't even know how bad they are, but I will take you at your word... 😀
SEC/B10 + Notre Dame own the country club.
B12 has a membership to the country club without owning it.
ACC technically still has membership until they potentially die.
G5 are peasants who aren’t members and definitely not owners but fight for 1 guest pass appearance a year to the country clubs annual crown jewel event. (the playoff)
In context, the BIG12 is already dead.
Cooler heads will prevail FSU CLEMSON ESPN SEC make a deal
SEC would really want Tobacco Road to round out 20. More than likely they go to the BIG with ND +1, BIG stops at 22. SEC holds at 18.
You said it, LVILLE VT NCST PITT and MIAMI UVA are all under evaluation. MIAMI UVA probably think they are too good, but may not have a choice. We would be fools to think they haven’t been speaking with Yormark
UVAsux in football. They get 2-3 bowls per decade. Basketball is good 50 % of the time. B1G LIKES UVA for academics. They can be Northwestern East. Let them have them. For the Big 12, UVA would be Kansas when the football still tucked but not near as good in basketball.
@@rnemtp5350 UVA has the highest endowment in the ACC, and it’s not close. You are right, they are B1G school. However, STANFORD’S endowment is insane and they were left out….
If UVA is available for Yormark, it will be a UA ASU scenario, they will take both UVA VT. Adding LVILLE PITT NCST MIAMI makes too much sense after that….
If BIG12 could relegate CINCY UCF this would all be more feasible… cruel but true
UVA has the largest endowment in ACC, by far. They are naturally a B1G fit, however they are similar to a STANFORD in that they need a UNC to pair up with… It all depends on who UNC’s +1 is…
If UVA is available for Yormark VT UVA must be added, similar to a UA ASU scenario, both would be taken. LVILLE MIAMI PITT NCST just make to much sense to add after…
To make all of this feasible, CINCY UCF would have to be relegated, cruel but necessary for dilution purposes…
Wow, close to the opposite of what you wrote will happen.
@@tarheel7406 It’s clearly a hypothetical scenario….
Everyone over thinking the UNC + 1…. It’s Tobacco Road….
FSU CLEMSON ESPN SEC will eventually make peace…..
The B12 has 4 teams ranked in the top 25. It's strong enough to be in the P3.
Yes, but probably all 15-25, if we're being fair. Thanks for watching David!
There will be no peer P3.
You could take teams with losing records in the SEC that are not ranked and they will compete fine with a BIG 12 that is ranked. Take the Gators past couple of years. So the Big 12 being ranked in the Top 25 is about pageantry, optics as much as it is being good. I’m not saying that team doesn’t deserve their ranking I’m just saying an SEC team with more loses or even a losing record is just as good and several SEC teams are better than ranked teams. There are always about 3-4 teams in the SEC that get clobbered and are a shell of themselves but even those programs care and the President, AD and Coach likely new coach and Donors do everything they can not to be those 3-4 teams. Some people say the Gators will have two wins this year. You can bet them at 4.5 wins. At the same time the first game of the season against UM last I checked UM is favored by 2. If I want the Gators to get to 8 wins as a fan does and I’m looking for wins they will need all non conference FSU, Miami, UCF. So let that sink in they need to beat 2 of the best 3 in the ACC and a sneaky good UCF Big 12 teams. I think they beat UM and UCF because the games are early before we hit the SEC schedule. This decoupling as it looks is due to a 9-0 Supreme Court decision in essence killing the student athlete. I get the point modern Vanderbilt was more concern about putting a female kicker in the game than winning, but they have not always been like that so they earned their membership in the SEC much like a Big 12 school has Too 25 teams. They earned it but might not be the best to have in that position.
Pete you don't need 56 degrees, you need a helping of farmagedden in the snow ❄️.
HA! NO thanks... In between is great.
I know they have struggled for a while, but what about Ga Tech and access to the Atlanta market, and more exposure to Georgia recruiting.
I could see where the SEC gets FSU, NCU, UVA, and Clemson. The Big gets Miami. Then the Big 12 gets Pitt, Louisville, G.T, and Duke.
This was a TOPIC on our forums! Follow it here, Marc: www.heartlandcollegesports.com/members-forum/topic/am-i-the-only-one-that-thinks-georgia-tech-is-being-wildly-undervalued-in-expansion-discussions/
I just can’t imagine the B1G settling for only Miami.
“It doesn’t feel like when, but it feels like when “ 😂😂 we gotcha
LOL.... Hope you stayed longer than the first 5 seconds!!!!
@@heartlandcollegesports i did 😂
@@cedricbelleblazerfan Phew... if not it was the worst video ever on YT! 😛
I don't feel like we, the BIG12, should settle for teams that not the first tier. I say we get PITT, VA, NC, Clemson, Louisville, FSU. Why not? Get them, at least give it a go. I always go for the hottest girl at the dance, if she says no, I ask the next. But at least go for it!
I agree with that in a perfect world Juan! BTW get on the boards my man! www.heartlandcollegesports.com/members-forum/?sucuriscan_lastlogin=1
Best show I listen to. Wreck’em
Really appreciate that Jeff! Thanks buddy!
Consider the forums if you want. www.heartlandcollegesports.com/members-forum/?sucuriscan_lastlogin=1
Jim has a point though! How is FSU and Clemson leave with 12 years on the contract. Texas and OU left but the big q2 contract didn't have 12 years. I don't believe FSU and Clemson completely get out of this contract until 2030. They are gonna play 6 years of this contract and settle
The BIG12 settled with and released TX/OK early because it was looking at having them linger while being forced to pay them an unequal amount off the top. Absent that settlement, TX/OK would have demanded a preferred distribution and played out the GOR.
At what point will the new school merch go up on the wall behind you?
OU/UT leave July 1 ... others come in Aug 2! Soon, Joe!!
@heartlandcollegesports You're not under contract. You can literally do this whenever you want. None of us care about ou or texas.
If Big 12 adds ACC teams: Pitt, Miami, L'ville, VT, NCSU, and GT. that's 5 new states, plus the Miami market, a legacy of 5 FB nattys, and another toehold in Fla. recruiting. It adds the Atlanta market, and Ga. recruiting. Adding WSU and Oregon State gives 24 teams, coast to coast footprint across 4 time zones and FB after dark, Thurs., Fri., abd Saturday for the new CVC Investment's Continental Conference( no big, no number necessary).
a) Why would Tier 2 ACC flight risks move to the new BIG12?
b) The Tier 2 BIG12 is already too large and wide.
Not to defend Rutgers/Maryland here but there are probably a lot of Alumni of B1G schools that live near NYC and DC so I can see why they were added. An Ohio St fan living in NYC can't make it to Columbus to see a game but it might be easier for them to jump on a train down to Piscataway to see them vs Rutgers. The no-divisions helps out the Rutgers types of schools because now you don't have to face Ohio State every year and you might be able to field a good team.
24:10 Title 9 had a lot to do with that. Back when it happened there were lots of programs Cut/Added As an example KU lost its Men's soccer program.
Why do I feel that once Utah goes on the wall behind you, it will be upside down?
Promise you it won't Rob! Lots of great Utah fans that I'm meeting on our message boards! Great folks. www.heartlandcollegesports.com/members-forum/?sucuriscan_lastlogin=1
Here is my thing if you do 50-60 schools, several traditional successful schools are going to be left behind or out.
All of the SEC are in and all of the BiG10 schools are in so gives you 34 schools right there. Now you have to add Florida State, Miami, Clemson, Notre Dame, GT, UNC, NCST, UVA, and VaTech. Then most likely Stanford and Cal and Pitt will be included. You now set at 46 schools.
TTech, OkSt, Houston, Utah, Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, West Virginia, Kansas, Kansas State, Cincinnati, and UCF are going to have to be in. That now puts you at 58 schools. So who would be 59 and 60?
Notre Dame might be the only religious institution among these top 60 schools. Because let’s look at the schools that are in the running for the last two spots.
Boise State
Memphis
App State
Liberty
Toledo
Miami-Ohio
Iowa State
TCU
Baylor
SMU
Navy
Army
Air Force
BYU
CCU
Tulane
Tulsa
USF
FAU
Boston College
Wake Forest
Syracuse
Louisville
Duke
San Diego St
UTSA
Troy
Southern Miss
South Alabama
Marshall
WKU
NIU
JMU
Delaware
UNT
Colorado State
Rice
ECU
Fresno State
Wyoming
Arkansas State
Utah State
La Tech lastly as list of schools that have winning traditions or rich traditions in college football. Their successful history in college football with some having national championships to their credit, would be left out.
This is why the 7-divisions/conferences of 10 teams plus an 8th division/conference of 12-16 G5 schools as new configurations of college football at D1A level makes sense the most from what I have seen from speculators in recent weeks and months. This way no current power schools or former power schools in WazzU and OzzU are left out of the 70 plus the G5 schools that were added to Big12 in BYU, Houston, UCF, and Cincinnati are included as is SMU in ACC.
This is what I would like to see happen but will not because of egos and ignorance and arrogance and prejudice by all involved and not just the bluest of the blue blooded privileged programs either. You know I am right.
We know ESPN has until February to announce if they will opt to extend contract with ACC beyond 2027. Likely ESPN has given ACC a heads up they won't opt to extend which will force ACC to reach settlement with FSU and Clemson on a exit fee sooner than later and at a reduced amount since GOR becomes worthless beyond 2027.
Good feedback, Gary. Thanks for watching.
Would love to see your perspective on the forums! www.heartlandcollegesports.com/members-forum/
Not likely.... Far more likely that the ACC got ESPN approval and assurances before adding CAL+2.
Always remember that the conference below got an ~$30M per deal:
WVU (small state low prestige flag)
CINCY (G5)
UCF (G5)
BYU (special/unique P5 remainder equivalent)
HOUSTON (G5)
IOWAST (low population state #2)
KSTATE (low population state #2)
OKSTATE (low population state #2, solid overall sports)
KANSAS (vanilla flag, blue basketball)
TCU (G5 equivalent)
BAYLOR (G5 equivalent)
TXTECH (G5 equivalent)
If you are talking about the BIG kicking out Rutgers, ect. If that happens there are just going to get the biggest brands and it want be 60 teams. SEC overall travel is less after adding Oklahoma and Texas. The BIG and the Big12 did what they had to do but the traveling makes no sense for the Big 12 or BIG. At the larger schools the TV money is important but not the biggest revenue.
The players aren’t earning the money because without people giving free money to the school all programs are in the red.
It annoys me more that the schools that have been an easy win and don’t try in football, they get more money than all the schools in the big 12
Absolutely. It's BS... that's why I wonder when that will change. And I don't think it's as far off as we think.
This is what the divisions in a Super League should look like.
WEST DIVISION:
Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, California, Stanford, USC, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona State.
NORTHWEST DIVISION:
BYU, Utah, Colorado, Nebraska, Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri, Iowa, Iowa State, Minnesota.
SOUTHWEST DIVISION:
Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, SMU, Houston, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State.
SOUTHEAST DIVISION:
Florida, Georgia, Auburn, Alabama, Mississippi, Mississippi State, LSU, Vanderbilt, Tennessee, Kentucky.
EAST DIVISION:
Florida State, Miami, UCF, Georgia Tech, Clemson, South Carolina, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Duke, Wake Forest.
NORTHEAST DIVISION;
Maryland, Virginia, Virginia Tech, West Virginia, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Rutgers, Boston College, Cincinnati, Louisville.
NORTH DIVISION:
Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana, Purdue, Notre Dame, Northwestern, Illinois, Wisconsin.
Wisconsin and Minnesota will still play annually just like many other rivalries.
These 70 universities will divide the TV revenue this way:
The top 10 brands will split 16% of the overall revenue, Brands 11-20 will split 15%.Brands 21-30 will split 14%. Brands 31-40 will split 13%. Brands 41-50 will split 12%. Brands 51-60 will split 11%. Brands 61-70 will split 10%.
The Mid-Major FBS universities outside these 70 universities will split the remaining 9% overall revenue.
Fox will cover the WEST, NORTHWEST, AND NORTH DIVISIONS, & ESPN will cover the SOUTHWEST, SOUTHEAST, EAST, AND NORTHEAST DIVISIONS
The Mid-Major universities can be involved in both networks, including the smaller sports networks.
It's funny how Pete and the others in the Big 12 are so against Socialism but they want Socialism for college football. Why would the business associations, also known as conferences, that have separated themselves through being able to generate revenue at a high level want to voluntarily give up that advantage so the poverty programs can get paid on an equal level?
@@slten12 They won’t. It’s a pipe dream perpetuated by the coddling participation crowd and it’s fading fast.
This realignment is a contraction via consolidation. There will be an ~48 team Tier 1 and then everyone else. If anything, the BIG12's refusal to accept its relegation down and elevating G5s only accelerated the process.
GREAT breakdown, Pete! You gotta share this on our forums my man! www.heartlandcollegesports.com/members-forum/forum/big-12-football/
B1G is a couple years from 90+ million a year payouts to full members.
Extremely hard to forecast a budget and manage an Athletic dept. if you pay out on success each year.
They should be able to budget based on the baseline, known revenues, that's how most businesses operate... big years and bonuses can be adequately handled and dished out as they see fit.
I think I have a light bulb moment what about the Amazon college conference and Amazon airs all the sports.
When you get rid of the ncaa does that declaw title 9? If so the universities need to do that now. Before the house case passes. There is no reason to have non revenue sports.
Big 12 has a shot at FSU and Clemson. A real shot
I don't think the SEC or Big 10 would let that happen.
I'd love to think that's possible, I just can't see how the other 2 leagues would let that happen, tbh. They don't want a P3, they want a P2.
It’s possible because ESPN wants those two to stay within their network. They won’t let them go to B1G. Plus, the Big 12 private equity war chest is going to be unleashed
@@nathanknecht8024 that’s fair but I’d think the SEC would accomplish that for all involved.
😂😂😂
So no current Big 12 team will jump to the ACC yet 26 minutes in you give a very good reason why a team could jump from the Big 12 to the ACC. I don't know if it happens or not but travel is going to be horrible for WVU, Cincy and UCF. If for some reason the Big 12 can't get anyone from the ACC to jump I do think those three would bolt for the ACC when the tv deal is up (pending there's an ACC still around). I have always thought that maybe the Power conferences will create a non football playing league where everyone would just put their smaller programs in and they would play regional games.
There is literally zero reason for any Big 12 team to leave for the ACC. Stability isn't there.
@@heartlandcollegesports Zero reason now but who's to say that reason doesn't pop it's head later down the road.
@@heartlandcollegesports BIG12 fans have no self-awareness.... After the P2 consolidation is complete, stability returns and Tier 2 football will be fungible.
a) Better athletic synergies
b) Better academic association
c) Higher prestige
d) Lower travel costs
Men's basketball would be an open question since the best ACC brands are also of higher interest to the SEC/B1G.
I think it’s time to take the OU and Texas signs off of the background wall 😆
I'll take them off before this weekend if you sign up and join our forums Brandon :-)
www.heartlandcollegesports.com/members-forum/
@@heartlandcollegesports ✅
You're right about a new college football structure of the future. However, your belief that the big12 will ever be able to poach even a middle of the road ACC team only happens of you have a massive MEGA 2 power grab. At that point then there will be very little of value in either the ACC or Big12 (other than Kansas that's the state of the BIG12 now). At that point the MEGA 2 grow to 20 plus teams and crowd out all the misfit toys out of the playoffs. When we fall below a power 4 then it will be the MEGA 2, there will be no Power 3. What's left of the ACC and Big12 will be the new big dogs in the tier 2 level "Group of" division and whatever that looks like going forward.
I 100% agree with this and this outcome is more than likely going to happen going forward.
Alienating 100 million fans from 50 schools by leaving them out is good business strategy by P2?
@@abourneidentity4208 it’s sad for sure, and it’s all greed. That’s why the MEGA 2 will grab everything of value and try to cash out. It wont be long after that that they will drop their own invaluable teams and replace them with teams that were left out in the cold. The rest of college football will still exist and create their own structure, so I wouldn’t call it alienation, it’ll just be different. To be honest with you the Tier 2 league will be a truer form of college football that I’d appreciate it more. The new MEGA league will end up being an NFL style corporate business of salary caps and kids under contracts being released and signed at will. Not a league I’m looking forward to seeing with the only loyalty being to the dollar.
@@MikeSharpe973 LOL lets alienate half the viewing audience…. Bold strategy cotton lets see if it pays off for them
@@abourneidentity4208 "Alienating 100 million fans from 50 schools by leaving them out is good business strategy by P2?"
Why wasn't the earlier P5 consolidation the line that couldn't be crossed? How many teams have the BIG8/BIG12 relegated down over its history?
Oh, come on. There is plenty of money for future NIL funding! On average, there are 750,000 seats, per team, per year. And most of the people in those seats do not yet contribute, but they will when we raise ticket prices on them… MuHaHaHa…
ESPN is ESPN/Disney/ABC. Disney is a dumpster fire right now and the only thing they can due right is the theme parks. The theme parks are helping them limp along. However Disney keeps charging more for the theme parks and attendance is shrinking so I believe the theme parks are tapped out. This is why the SEC stayed at 8 conference games because Disney is losing money. ESPN is going to pay for the SEC to go to 9 games before they pay more for Big12 or ACC. I’m sure money is distributed but it will be based on viewers, which means the SEC would be getting the most blood from that rock. Ironically Disney will make another movie losing 100’s of millions and manipulate numbers to make Disney Streaming not go away.
The big 12 is already a Frankenstein/survival conference and its days as "Power" conference are numbered anyway. Even if /when FSU and Clemson leave the ACC, it wouldn’t benefit either conference to poach each other. ESPN and or fox are not going to give the remaining ACC and big 12 specifically anymore money for more expansion teams/schools. It would best serve big 12 and ACC to merge quite honestly. If they don’t both conferences will eventually be irrelevant even more than they are now. I think both conferences need to accept their lower relegation as a group of G6/G7 conferences , which they will eventually be if they keep trying to keep up with Sec and B1G with conference naming rights and private equity and thats already risky af but even worse the revenue gap widens even further from The P2
Alienating 100 million fans from 50 schools left out is risky af too
This guy is obviously a Memphis Tiger
@@techtiger38 nowhere near lmao!
@@ScottPilgrim1919 c'mon silly willy. C'mon silly willy!!!!!
@techtiger38 I assume that's their Mascot? lmao!
Oh, the Americans conference
American Airlines?!
Vanderbilt, Illinois, Rutgers, Indiana, Northwestern, Maryland, Minnesota, Purdue ECT.... None of these teams deserve over 20 million!!! Just these teams there's 3 quarters of billion dollars a year in dead weight!!! Watching these teams play football is worse than watching dead grass grow??? We could definitely come up with a 60 team mega football only conference with regional divisions bringing Rivalrys and Traditions that made this sport great!!! And it would work for everyone???
One with a limited budget; I hate the fact you may need to subscribe to 2 or 3 services to get all games. Yep, I get it, money grab.
What's this in reference to?
IMO Miami will end up in the B1G with FSU. Miami is an AAU, huge research university. You can bet your bottom dollar, the B1G hierarchy wants them. They are a Robin school (ala UCLA) and need a Batman school (FSU or UNC) to pair with to bring the value to justify them. Miami would get a partial share. I think the B12 will want to kill off the ACC by taking as many valuable brands and go to 24. First go to 20 by adding Louisville, VT, NCSt & Pitt. Then go to 24 to boost BB and finish off the ACC (as a viable P4) and grabbing other valuable brands. Add Duke, GT, SDSU & UConn. USF could be another option.
Duke is a fascinating team to think about. They aren't really a Big 12 fit, culturally, but the hoops would be WOAH!
Thanks, Ed. Would love to see ya on the forums, bud. www.heartlandcollegesports.com/members-forum/
Why would Tier 2 ACC flight risks move to the new BIG12?
Man, y’all are delusional if you think that Miami would go to the Big12. Miami is a private institution unlike the other ACC programs with the exception of ND. Miami would go back to Independent status before they’d go to the Big12. Y’all need to give up this effort to try and stick Miami into this conference. Let’s be honest here; y’all either hate Miami or fear what Miami can possibly do moving forward. Either way, Miami is a “storied” program. Adding Miami would bring value to the Big12. However, the Big12 adding Miami to their conference does not add value to Miami.
Storied program based on what? Things from 20-45 years ago? Who cares? It's this kind of arrogance that is killing your football program!
I just wish that everything would happen, I'm so fucking sick of hearing about it I could puke!!! Just cough up the money Florida State and Clemson your going to earn back quickly. If we're going to wait for the courts we have at least 2 more years of this whining and crying!!! Getting so fucking old!!!
You’re not wrong but this is how it’s been for years… a slow drip and forever changing!
I think you Big12 homers are in for a big surprise
Regarding what....?
PAc12 does exist.
.... does it????