What I meant was...
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- čas přidán 12. 06. 2024
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Steve, your test is perfect. This is a very good follow-up to the previous video. IMO, the reason why the power output is slow to rise is due to heat within the MOSFET finals. MOSFETs run cool when they are 100% on or used as switches, but they run hot when used in linear mode. There clearly is a design flaw in the 6200. The correct design will decrease bias voltage on the gate as temperature rises to keep the FET from going into "thermal runaway". It looks like either the bias is set incorrectly OR the bias tracking / temp sense feedback circuit is inoperative or wired wrong. It's very much akin to AGC or a governor in an engine. The best way to test and isolate this issue is to measure the drive RF going into the gates and confirm that it is stable. Next I would look with an IR camera and see if there is good thermal conduction from MOSFET's to heat sink and if they are balanced thermally. It could become a deep dive very easily and we would need a full bench with test gear to do the analysis. Keep up the good work. 73 OM
Thanks Hollywood! I think you're right. I might open it up and take a look one day.
That is very odd behavior
Agreed!
Pulling a cap?
Steve, you are very awesome! Thanks for this test.
My pleasure!
Now it all makes sense to me, nice work!
Thanks VC!
Glad I didn't even consider the 6200 after selling my 6100. Happy with the G90 so far.
The G90 Battle Axe!
Can’t hardly beat the G90
@@N4GW #Truth
Interesting stuff and Cool setup by the way
Don't tell my wife, but that's the kitchen counter - only space available!
just a FYI, in the last video clip your audio start going only to the left channel. I usually listen with one earbud in so had to switch to hear it.
Thanks for the open and honest reviews.
It's a "feature" of my new mic. I like the mic, I hate the single channel/left audio/work it generates...
@@temporarilyoffline If I recall correctly, you have the DJI MIC 2. There is a setting on the receiver to mix the channels.
@@KH6WI I do, I'll check again. Its a pain.
In before someone figures out how to modify the finals to fix the problem, and then Xeigu makes a hardware revision. I might consider getting one of these after the dust settles. I never got onboard the X6100 train and this seems like a fun radio to play around with. Maybe it's not a fantastic radio currently, but as a hackable Linux machine that is also a radio it's very cool.
This guy gets it!
At least they didn't lie about the 8W power. I hope they've also fixed the poor WiFi performance and Bluetooth CAT control. I kind of regret buying the 6100.
Thanks for the honest review, sir!
Wifi is much better and I'm routinely seeing 8w out
Whats sad is you made it clear in the first video. The video was clear even more so because you also included the watt meter in the video.
There is a lot to unpack in all of these videos and I can't say everything that needs to be said either... People see what they are most interested in. A lot of the feedback in the last video was "Its the MFJ meter" which wasn't what I was even suggesting. "Confirmation Bias"
Appreciate the comment!
You put out a great video to begin with. I appreciate how thorough you are in your videos. It's just my opinion that you did in fact deliver the message.
Thanks for what you do for the ham radio community.
@@KU8RLY appreciate it!
I thought you were very clear on the last video. Thanks for testing!
Glad it was helpful!
My guess... Xiegu's SWR foldback circuit has a high derivative response, and might need a cap value adjusted (down, probably). Would LOVE to see the schematics. 🙂
That would be great. Companies stopped publishing schematics though...
I was thing something wrong with the ALC circuit. Either way something is out of whack.
Thanks to put al the work in this for the Hams that was waiting a long time for this radio ,including me. Now i wait what is the next step from Xiegu. Otherwise i go for the 6100.
Xiegu will eventually get it closer to stable. If you want to make contacts, get the G90 at half price. If you want to tinker/have fun/ride the roller coaster of updates and 3rd party software... this is a fun radio.
Great information on your videos! What dummy load are you using?
This is made by Celwave: geni.us/YlnRyc
This is a bit disturbing with a radio that is supposed to be an "upgrade" to the X6100. I was fully prepared to write this off as a prototype unit having a funky output but then you pulled the card of this is the production model. DoH! That really solidifies that I am NOT getting one of these (although that mic is NICE and I still wonder if it works on the 6100).
Still have to work through the other features. They are making progress though!
Thanks for the explanation and demo! What does this mean in terms of usability? Does the initial ramp up time affect the ability to make contacts?
Not really, its usually 1-2 watts and (especially on CW or FT8) you won't notice it. Its just interesting.
Thanks! That’s good to know!
I remember reading on the Sbitx forum about a problem when keying the radio there were many people blowing internal components because of too fast of reaction switching between receive and transmit (both active at same time for fraction of a second). Then some changes were made to circuitry (and possibly to firmware also) that would slow all that down so there was more time for the circuit to make the switch (because it does not make use of a relay). It also uses RaspPi to control the radio. I wonder if this is a similar situation and perhaps that power up response can be adjusted in software.
I think it can be adjusted in software - I hope so for their sake. I'm surprised they didn't see that in proto stage.
Just adjust CW speed so the dits are 5 seconds long.
Exactly. Problem Solved!
You proof your point. Strange the X6200 needs that amount of time to deliver full power. The 705 shows your meter reacts like it should. 73 Phil
It was something weird that I noticed right away and had to share. Ultimately I don't think it matters more than "truth in advertising". You'll still make contacts.
Well you can't say the Xiegu has an ALC spike. It'd be curious to see what the predriver/PA bias voltage is doing. I understood what you were trying to say in the first video. Good catch. 👍
Thanks Homer, you're one in a million!
On my production run X6200, I find that when I'm keying at 20 WPM--using the same SWR meter as you--I'm reading about 6.2-6.8 watts on average (it floats between those) when the X6200 is set to 8 watts output. Thomas (K4SWL)
Agreed. I did a demo of calling CQ at 20 in my previous vids with the power meter in line. It takes a while to rise and a while to settle... will 2 watts make a real difference in the field - does your vote count?
@@temporarilyoffline I never run more than 5 watts in the best of times and quite often 3 watts. In fact, I can't hardly tell a difference when I'm activating a park or summit at 100mw CW. The activation seems to work regardless. So, no, two watts CW makes no difference to me. Just odd that output isn't more stable. Might be something they can adjust in firmware? -Thomas
@@ThomasK4SWL As a software developer, I can see a way to fix this/how this could be caused by software.
Scope the output and see if there are any spikes as well.
Good idea
All this must be very confusing to new hams!
I can agree with that. "what does it matter?" kinda thing. In reality it only matters in the sense of buying 300hp car and getting 30 instant horsepower and then 320hp at the end of the quarter.
That will be a problem if using some amplifiers. Hopefully that is able to be resolved in firmware (thermal tracking and compensation).
I'll have a video coming out on using this with the amp soon.
My guess would be either a component isn't the correct value or type, or the firmware has a bad bit of code in it. Something is slowing the power delivery, it's there, but dragging it's heels...
Agreed
No bueno! I'll wait....or fork out the cash for the 705 if I ever go this direction. Still getting used to an FT-DX10 :)
That DX10 is a nice radio
That’s really odd, I know it’s a RF sensing meter but it kind of resembles DC charging a capacitor, not sure that will be fixable with a new firmware update?
That makes sense...and would be very bad
One on the ramp up and then one at the top... Its interesting for sure.
The 6100 doesn't have that issue, either, correct? And.....you're showing that now while I type...I love how you answer my questions in pre-recorded fashion...lol
I can't show everything in a single video... its all multi levels deep... that's why there is always tomorrow!
@@temporarilyoffline Im looking forward for that video as well because Ive been considering the 6100 but if it has the same behavior I am out.
@@angelscomputers I show the X6100 results in this video.
@@temporarilyoffline which video? you just said "that's why there is always tomorrow!" in the previous comment so I assume you are going to make another video. You got me all confused, do you made a video about the 6100 where it shows that doesnt have that power issue? do you have a link?
@@angelscomputers
What do you smoke ?😂
The next question is does it do the same in other modes. Also, what does the signal sound like when doing CW? Is there a chirp or bad tone?
Its an even tone on my side, but that's all locally created. Would be good to hear it on the far end.
Yeah, peak versus average metering means nothing for long key down manual CW. It is a weird effect. I just watched K4SWL's video, and it does seem like CW performance is an after thought for Xiegu.
Exactly, just answering comments from yesterday. Xiegu has always been behind in CW
FYI, at 4min 57sec the video's audio when from stereo to left mono only.
It's no big issue. I just thought I would pass it along.
Thanks, its a bug in the microphone I'm using.
that interesting . only the 6200 does this. 73
To right! I thought it was unique
I’m wondering if this might be a product of the transistors used for the finals…
Just my guess … wondering
Sounds like its how they feed them for sure. You're on the right track.
Here's a REALLY bad hypothesis....it's an SDR, which often limit output based on SWR. Since that is a function of ohmic resistance, could it possibly be lazy code evaluating antenna vs internal resistance and ramping power during evaluation (interenal vs antenna)? I'm not smart enough to answer that question....
Seems like a reasonable hypothesis to me. Maybe it gets taken care of in a software update.
output -> catch -> correct -> repeat
Protective circuit... Pray if a firmware update like normal for the brand... I can see it now "Whats the best Firmware" for Power and still have the filtering and Best USB and DATA modes... hehehehe N3WER
Xiegu gonna Xiegu!
The G90 is great, why can’t they figure out these?!
We call it "try hard" where I come from. I'm glad they are innovating. They should level up the G90 platform, but I can't see a path forward for them currently. But that's armchair quarterbacking.
The 1st video was clear, even for someone like me with mush for brains.
You're smarter than most, thanks for watching.
Sum thing is telling me they didn’t bias the transistor’s properly ?? May want to check that ??
I think you're right!
This is what put me off in your first video Steve but this just clarifies the issue on another level. I could be wrong but i doubt this could be fixed with any firmware update. I guess calling DX 5 times would work haha. Thanks
The radio still makes contacts and is fun to play with. In longer overs it delivers more than rated power. At the end of the day, its still a Xiegu and this is what we've learned to expect from them. As long as fun is greater than dollars spent... I have more fun with the Xiegu's than I do with my Yaesu's or Icom's
@@temporarilyoffline I guess in actual use it makes no noticeable difference, just annoying to see those strange results. Out of curiosity does it do the same whilst using the ATU?
@@gtretroworld The first test showed the ATU engaged, that's why I had to do it twice in the video.
@@temporarilyoffline I must overlooked that in the video. Thanks
Definitely not the meter averaging the power. Great test. That’s a weird issue. 73 de K2CJB
I'm starting to believe its something in software driving the SDR to create output and working on a closed loop system.
Great catch, If the 6100 works, it's my guess, Xiegu can easily correct the problem😏
Possibly, this radio is supposed to have a different SDR stage. We'll see.
@@temporarilyoffline I noticed the similar but understated response from 6100 (1/2 watt transient). Engineers aware of this performance issue?
@@thomasflorence6233 I let them know a month ago. They don't seem to have a fix yet... but this is Xiegu, the radio will get better over time.
@@temporarilyoffline Your credibility with the 6100, may influence the demand for the 6200. Thanks for providing early feedback. Xiegu should appreciate your efforts.
@@thomasflorence6233 thanks!
I would be afraid that I wouldn't get to full power before I had completed the transmission. If they are using cheaper parts that the 705 they may want to slow down the rise to full power so that the output is not over driven. just a thought. 73
Hey Jeff! I haven't had any problems making QSOs on this rig outside of the current solar conditions. I'll share more as I have more. I've seen 10w out on FT8!
So, That means the radio won't be to good on digital modes ( 10 to 20 sec Transmit) What you think?
I'm being heard pretty good: twitter.com/KiloMike9Golf/status/1801334879411404956
I wonder if this is something that can be fixed in software. It's definitely an issue... Especially with CW.
I think so.
Wondering what it is going to sound like on air .... QSB built in OM HiHi. BTW you have found a bug. Thinking it's in there fold back circuit for heat protection. Try it in a very cold room i.e. stick in a cooler full of cold beer.
It was 65F during this demo. I'm in the basement now. Got demoted. I do like the idea of the beer cave. Even with the high sun-spots, I got a good enough signal report.
I wonder if it's an ALC issue. I wonder if it does the same thing on FM mode
This is a CW test, no ALC involved in this. You can see in the previous video in the radio close up.
@@temporarilyoffline ALC is active in some part of every mode of operation.
@@HamRadioWithKE0MAD I'm not sure I disagree with you. Where I'm having trouble is that this is CW and "as an operator" I don't have any influence on ALC and the radio's ALC meter shows zero - which in Xiegu speak remember is backwards - 100 means "no ALC" and zero I'm guessing means ALC off (the other definition of zero), because full ALC of a CW signal doesn't make any sense to me. If this were SSB or FT8, I can completely see ALC changing my signal and effecting power output. I've demonstrated this in past videos. When I get a chance I'll test power output in RTTY and FM mode and see if I see the same symptoms.
@temporarilyoffline hey I'm not disagreeing either. It is definitely strange behavior. I just received one myself, I guess we'll start poking at it this weekend. Anyway great video as usual.
I put mine on the air yesterday and found out the AGC is not operating in the manner that the setting is on. Also hooked it up to the XPA125B and there's no ALC action. I think they just rushed it along too quickly.
Lets just call it a feature and move on!!
Good idea!
I would be interested to see if Xiegu have any response to this test. This is definitely not desirable behaviour, I think!
I agree!
Hopefully this can be resolved with a firmware update
I can see some avenues for that to happen. These radios always get better over time.
I wonder if this will create a "chip" on CW
"Chip"? Did you mean "chirp"? No, it wont create a "chirp"; that's caused by a shift in frequency. This will cause a lower RF signal out. Given the slow rise time to full power, on CW it'll be like running at ~5W, instead of 8W (which isn't a huge difference, but still, you want the full advertised power). On SSB, I suspect it may slowly work its way up to 7-8W, depending on the duty cycle of your speech.
But it seems that the keying wave form won’t have the right shape. In the older terminology, you could get a click with a very sharp onset, this would be the opposite. It could make copy difficult. De AD0L
I agree with you, but I think it would be hard (for me anyway) to make this work on speech.
Anything is possible, but I think K7LFO is right that if anything, your signal will get louder the longer you key-down.
Very weird. i have the 6100. I see absolutely no reason to upgrade. Less power, slower warmup on transmit, no expandability...
About the only potential upgrade you would likely get is better receiver performance. Still not sure if it is susceptible to broadcast AM interference like the x6100 but so far it seems to have a cleaner receiver with less birdies.
Whether that's worth the $200 price increase is debatable though. (Its not worth it to me IMHO)
History will repeat itself. This radio will get even better in the next 2 years. If you have the 6100, this is a hard upgrade for sure. If you have nothing, its slightly easier.
I think the $200 price increase is about $150 worth of "can't be the same price as the X6100"
@@temporarilyoffline
I was make a price simulation in Radioddity in Europe it was more than 900 Euro 💶, s including tax.
X6200 has a defective feature and not ready for prime time. Should we be surprised...?
This guy gets it.
If I were Xiegu, I would be as transparent as possible with Beta testers like you. Treating this as a 'black box' doesn't help the cause.
In their defense, they are a very small company doing very big things. I have offered to be more helpful in beta testing.
@@temporarilyoffline Kudos!
Yep, it’s a bucket of sh….
Hey Lance! One man's Sh... is another man's ... well you know. I don't disagree, but I think this is fun and "disruptive" to the industry. We need these little skunkworks to push us forward and keep the LAZY old guard on their toes!
@@temporarilyoffline Agreed! As hams, we should be welcoming of innovation, not bashing anything that's not an "established" company.
@@temporarilyoffline I completely agree. Just an off hand comment. I should have put a smiley face after the comment.
Love your work bud.
Ps. I just really disappointed because I want a G90 upgrade 😁
@@LanceVK6LK_AussieHam thanks, I really want a G90 upgrade also.
I dont see anything different here, you CAN'T compare Icom quality with Crapy Xiegu quality duhhh. For a reason is way cheaper
Every scientific experiment needs a "control".