The Sony A7S III "Dual ISO" and setting the camera up for VIDEO!
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- This is a short update to my rather long review. I now have my release camera and have checked to see if the "Dual ISO" point of the pre-production camera is the same, it isn't.
I show how big a difference it makes and where that switch is for different profiles.
I have also set the camera up for my ideal video settings, custom menus, shortcut buttons, function menu, picture profiles etc. You can download the settings file to load into your A7S III from the link below.
gopb.co/settings
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The way that dual ISO works is generally in what's called the charge to voltage converter in the sensor. That's where the charge from the photocell is accumulated (or integrated) into a capacitor to produce a voltage, and it's that which is read by the ADC (analogue to digital converter) via an analogue amplifier. Generally a dual-ISO sensor will have two capacitors, and when running with the "low base ISO", both capacitors are in circuit. When running in the "high base ISO" mode, only one capacitor is used with, say, only about one-sixteenth of the capacitance of both combined.
The result is that, for a given charge, which is directly proportional to the number of photons detected in the photo-diode, the "high base ISO" mode will generate a voltage sixteen times higher (four stops) than in "low base ISO" mode. That means, in the "low base ISO" mode, for a given ISO, there would have to be a sixteen-times higher analogue amplification to be applied compared to the "high ISO mode". Unfortunately analogue amplification comes with a cost, which is added noise. Using a smaller capacitor provides that amplification without the added noise.
So, if the "low base ISO" adds noise, why do cameras not always run in the "high base ISO" mode all the time? The answer to that is dynamic range; the "high ISO mode" has much less headroom before it clips by exceeding the range of the ADC and other elements of the circuity. In short, it would clip highlights.
As to when the two modes are switched in, then that's going to be down to the fine details and optimisation of firmware in the camera. The exact details of how the "dual base ISO" feature is physically implemented is in the sensor.
What base ISO actually means in terms of SLOG adds another complication to the game as, at heart, it's a non-linear encoding of the luminance levels on the channels.
What Say Ye Sir Gerald Undone?
@Paul Lifewood It would not surprise me if the ADCs were also tweaked as well. As this is all fabricated in the sensor there are probably downsides in adding too much complexity.
There's an explanation of the basic principles here, which might be of interest.
www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/2016-newsview/jan-mar-2016-newsviews-2/dual-gain-becoming-the-norm.html
I can't remember who patented the idea first.
@Paul Lifewood Now I recall, it was probably Aptina that first patented the method which was called dual-gain or some such. No doubt each sensor manufacturer has it's own particular take and its own patents but probably have to cross-licence the original concept.
www.photonstophotos.net/Aptina/DR-Pix_WhitePaper.pdf
Kez I’m assuming he’s been married for at least 15 years.
Your explanation is perfect 👌 and I appreciate it. Glad someone understands the science. (:
Honestly the best duo in camera breakdown and in depth reviews is Gerald and Phil. I mean, if you want to KNOW your camera... its these guys. Period.
Yes
Well demonstrated, Philip! Also, love your shirt! 🤓👌💜
@Gerald Undone, Gerald, a question, What's the best ISO value for extracting maximum allocation of dynamic range above the middle grey, think of shooting with A7S3 in a super sunny daylight, thanx.
@@peek118 I would say about 1250 without introducing much noise.
@@8lec_R Thanks,
well done Phillipe , hey Gerald ;)
do one of, probably both , of you know why Sony have different dual iso on different styles ?
Karma_Codeine I already answered didn’t I? Why would you just shoot at the lowest base iso as in 640?
I learned about ‘stops’ and how they are calculated ... awesome. Thank you for that.
Philip to Sony: Looks like dual ISO to me!
Sony: It's not dual ISO, it's cleaner noise!
Amazing stuff! Weird they don't advertise this. Thanks for the vid Phil!
because it's not dual iso.
Juventin actually it essentially is.
This is GREAT NEWS. I can't wait for my camera to arrive.
Do you know the expected ship date?
How long have you been a Sony shooter?
@@WarriorsPhoto This will be my first. Were you being snarky a la Sony sucks at releasing?
@@baller2377 Very interesting point there. I am wondering what about my question lead to seeming "snarky"? Thank you for asking BTW.
Nice! When I had test for my review I noticed that “jump” but I had thought that was an error on pre production model, nice to know this “dual iso” function.
This is the best explanation of the dual ISO ever made.
I don't know if anyone who read this, but I've tested a few camera using the same method as Philip Bloom on Sony older cameras, even ones from other brands. Apparently all of the camera I tested has dual iso.
A7iii@slog3 800/5000, you can search a7iii dual iso and someone uploaded the video on it and I confirmed it myself
A7Riii@ slog3 800/4000 by the same sense a7rii should also have it
A6600@ slog3 (500)/800/2500 somehow 500 is more noisier than 800 and it had a jump no doubt
Xt3 800/2500
I don't know why Sony isnt marketing this but all the newer Exmor R sensor by design has dual iso, and all cameras uses sony sensors should have dual iso since it is a on-sensor circuit.
On a job a week agot at a construction site and ended up using mobile phone to lit a bathroom. Cranked up my a73 to 5000 iso, thought it looked ok... Turns out in the end it did look pretty good, did not know this. Getting the S3 next week.
Not fair! 😭😭😭 I still gotta wait 8 more days and every job I book before the 24th I hate that I have to use my a7s ii lol
Relatable! Me when ordering prime lenses. Order now or it can hurt you later
A personal thank you Phillip. I'm expecting my A7S3 next month, and your settings will be a great way to start with the new camera. Best wishes. Andrew.
Nicely illustrated, thanks for showing this.
So glad that you can save settings to SD. It’s always been a bit of a nightmare copying them over manually.
Dear Phillip, Thanks for the settings file. A very generous gesture.
Thank you very much for this video. After many years filming with an A7R II I´m finally purchasing an A7S III and I needed that clear information. Thank you again and greetings from Spain.
Finally got mine in and so glad you made this video. I came back to remember the ISO range where the switchover happens and then remembered you had the settings set up for us to start with. Much appreciated! That's going to make getting started much less work.
Dual ISO has been one of the best features of some of the recent Panasonic cameras. Good to see other cameras utilizing it now.
mpgxsvcd sure but its not. Don’t forget, who makes the S1H sensor?
Philip Bloom why is it not a good feature?
mpgxsvcd that’s not what I said. I said it’s not “dual iso”. Not officially! :)
mpgxsvcd this has actually been in Sony mirrorless cameras going all the way back to the A7S but it’s just not been talked about :)
Thanks for the settings, very helpful and contains exactly everything that I ever need. Saved me a lot of time.
Also, as Gerald Undone pointed out, you can either count the stops, or, if it's easier to you, just multiply the base ISO by 20 to find out the second ISO where it cleans up.
you will remain the legendary Philip for all of us , Big Thanks
So calm, positive karma, so professional! Congrats for all your videos!
Thanks for the info 🙌🏻. Looking forward to receiving mine next week. Haven’t been this pumped for a new camera since 2016
This is great ... And the best part of it the sharing of the personal menu setting, huge thanks for that
Great video and super useful for us! This will help in selecting an appropriate PP when we film Aurora. Pretty excited to play with RAW for this purpose as well.
Awesome, thank you for the info! You are an amazing filmmaker.
Learned a lot.. And realised all the things I have done wrong..... Let's just say my videos and images are going to be cleaner from now on. 😊
What's the most surprising to me with this camera is how good the standard profile is. It seems to be the cleanest for virtually no loss in DR. A low base ISO is also a huge bonus
Brian Decasa seriously??? Standard has “no loss in DR”? Where is this coming from? Your tests? There’s about 4 stops different between standard and Slog3
The reason it “looks cleaner to me” is the contrast is hiding the noise
Same story with the Lumix S1 cameras. 640 /4000 "dual" gain.
G'day from Australia Philip. I downloaded the settings and they're great. Thanks for all of the hard work you put into creating these videos.
I wish Sony would give that firmware update allowing for the disabling of video NR. DaVinci Resolve does NR much better than a camera’s muddy processing…
I can’t wait to see your Fx6 review. I think that will be my next camera.
It’s amazing how much cleaner it gets. Thanks for this video!
Yea, A short video!!! lol I thought I may need to go to bed early .. now I can..
Thank you Phillip for the settings!
Thanks for sharing your Menu settings. Wish you all the best, enjoying every video from you. Keep on that awesome work of yours.
Great and thanks for the settings as well. I can’t wait to see you covering the Gyroscopic Stabilization feature and how you like it 👍
Now I’ll have to figure out how to upload settings into the cameras via SD card. Thanks Phillip for all the tips!
It’s in the pdf
@@philipbloom you're the man
Thank you, Phillip. Can't wait to get my A7Siii. Please continue these informative and rather entertaining videos, even though on the shorter timeframe side per your regular standards.
I can't wait to see your review the fx6 and the c70...
Ok maybe I'm dreaming but still worth a shot to mention.
Thank you for sharing your camera settings! I am looking forward to getting mine soon!
Interestingly the standard profile in video where it gets clean (ISO1600) is the same as for RAW photos, so the sensitivity for photos is actually worse than their other cameras (e.g. A7R5, A7IV, etc), this low light advantage is only present in video modes. I wonder what accounts for this...
Why is it worse? What is the high ISO point for those other cameras?
Thanks for all the information and thank you for sharing your settings. That was very nice of you.
Good demonstration. This 'dual ISO' has always be present on the A7S Mk2 too BTW. The switch point for SLOG2/3 is also @ 12800 as you work your way up through the ISO range, but weirdly at 10000 as you work your way back down through the ISO range. I've always avoided shooting anywhere between 5000-10000 to avoid the worst of the noise. At least the switch point seems to be consistent now. Looking forward to receiving our FX9s little brother.
Nice demo Phill,Thank you.I think Sony did a good job on this camera for its price point.
This video was very useful, thanks Philip. Nice example
This exactly what I was looking for plus the my menu settings 🥺 thanks my man! Subscribed!
awesome video! bookmarking this for when my fx3 comes in 😍
"dual iso" sounds very useful especially when combined with the picture profiles. to me at least, it means you could use a different PP at a higher iso and get better results.
I think fujifilm has something similar, where it looks like iso 1000 is cleaner than 800. 2500 is cleaner than 1600. Maybe you want to check that out?
No really! Why don’t you?
I made a cheat sheet for this (both because I have an A7Siii on preorder and to help) and I'm tweeting it to you now.
can you share homebasemg@gmail.com I was going to also..but if you already did it!
@@HomebaseFILMS It's on my Twitter profile @LeonFilms and Instagram @LeonUnity
Bravo 👏 Philip!!! Very useful little video
Excellent information! I can't wait for mine to arrive!
People like this are why I have hope in the world
So glad that you investigated! I wonder how come it was lowered to 12,800 tho that's pretty interesting.
Thanks Phillip super keen to get my unit!
Looking forward to seeing some more on the proress raw!
Thank you, very helpful. Appreciate you making your settings available.
Great test. I like the standard picture profile best, the blacks seem richer to me and the roll off looks the most cinematic.
Absolutely do not use this as a way of analysing what look best!! This is so artificial in its presentation to make it possible to see!!!
@@philipbloom Apologies! I was trying to be funny whilst eating my Wheatabix this morning.
Ben you should get your coat! 😂
started understanding ISO a bit, thanks Philip!
If anyone is having difficulties using PB's settings, its because his current file is intended for version 1.01. You probably have a newer version in your camera.
Thanks for the settings file! I’ll put it to good use... one day.
Very useful video!!! Thanks!! Hope I can get my a7sIII soon too!!👌
Thank you for the settings. I have two A7S 111 on order but I'm intrigued by the Cannon M70 that should be announced this week. As an entry-level cine camera, it looks intriguing. With a price point of around $6K it is definitely a cost. That said I'm very interested.
Thank you for your A7siii custom camera set up Bloomie! I like simple videos like this. Please do one on the use of the right Chapman? Venice lut? with Slog3 Gamut 3 Cine etc
Thank you Philip. Very useful.
So and so useful,
Thanks for sharing man.
Awesome! Thanks so much! Was going to save up cash to purchase but I might buy with 0% just in case Sony “updates” this great “feature” with a firmware update. Great video as always.
Thanks so much for sharing your settings. Look forward to trying them out when my unit arrives.
I bought Sony A7 sii , after watching your video... Still I love that Camera...
THANKYOU so much for this help. Learned a lot definitely here. I really appreciate this. thank you again. All love.
Nice one Phil. I really like the composition and lighting in your piece to cam in this vid. The FX7 is so good here. I'd love to see you compare the A7 to the R5. I went for the R5 for photography reasons. Might get the A7 when I can afford it.
Thanks Philip this is very helpful.
Very useful sir and glad I sat down for this. Interesting 🧐 find of a feature. I wonder why Sony didn’t market this? Probably to market their higher end cameras 📸 with this feature instead. 🤔
No conspiracies here!
Philip Bloom Hey Phillip, I believe you. I am wondering about Sony’s marketing.
Hi this is very informative. Could you please share the resource where we can see the base ISO for each picture profile for different cameras such as A7III , A7R IV and A6600
Which autofocus lenses do you recommend for the a7s3/fx9?
This is just brilliant. Thanks Philip
Thank you for the settings file
Thank you for the settings files Philip. It's greatly appreciated!
did they load? i couldn't get them to load. i went under 'reset/save settings' then LOAD > File name: "CAMSET01" and didn't work. any idea why? thanks
Out of curiosity i just tested this on my A6500 (with the lens cap on and manual WB, shutter & aperture) and there is a definite change at ISO 6400 using S-Log 2 the noise appears finer and most of the color noise disappears. And in no profile, movie (PP1) and cine profiles the image cleans up at ISO 500 which does match reported dual ISO gain point of ISO 400 but i found ISO 800 to be cleaner and had less color noise.
Thank you for the info!!
This is so so helpful, thank you for your time teaching all this.
Hello Sony. Are you paying attention to Philip's easy menu layout?
Thanks a lot for this test! I only have one question.
Every next stop is 2 times the previous ISO and we seem to look for the 5th stop, then why the image clears at 12800 (which is 1,25 times the previous ISO) and not at 20480?
Thank you!
Sony FX9 image looks amazing! Soft but detailed. Sounds weird, soft but detailed :D
Ah! That’s because I had a filter on to make me look slightly less rough!
What a gent. Appreciate the My Menu settings
Thanks so much, now I know why Cinetone still noised in 12800 XD
Incredible information! Thank you and Thank you for the Camera Settings File!
Looking for exposure and ISO help when Not shooting in LOG.
What music track is that? It goes great with the video
The L.A. Explorer there’s quite a few tracks isn’t there?
Thanks Philip!best explanation!
steady shot cropping a bit someone was saying?
Thank you Philip. I will refer back to this video in a couple year's time when I buy my Siii :)
Anyone have an idea what the the "dual native" iso is for the a7S III with S-Cinetone?
Hi Philip.. Larry Low here from Singapore.. apparently this "dual ISO" phenomenon is existent in other Sony cameras as well.. happens on my a6400, a6600 & a7iii as well; at varying ISOs depending on profile.. i can't speak for the other models, but i think it might exist in all Sony hybrids.. 🤔🤔
Yep it’s entirely possible. Much more obvious with a higher quality 10bit camera like this
Apologies if this is a repeat: Just got my A7S3 a few days ago and was excited to try out these settings. However per the instructions the one thing that the card no longer displays is the PRIVATE folder, and I was unable to drag anything into the SONY folder on the card. So for anyone running into a similar problem, go into the menu on your camera > toolbox + option 2, and "SAVE SETTINGS". This will save whatever your current camera settings are and properly setup a directory path. Then open up your card on the Mac and you can dig farther into the SONY folder and add Philip's PB_A7S3.DAT file into the last directory "CAMSET". Repeat similar instructions and choose "LOAD SETTINGS". Voila!
Thanks so much Philip for the settings doc - most appreciated - you star
am i getting this recomended because the s3 is waiting on my bh shopping cart for 3 days?
Camera Conspiracies sent me here ! nice channel
Thank you Philip
Well what about pushing it higher than 12,800??????? No one seems to be answering this.
did you really need so many questions marks? My review "answered this" in that I show you the noise and noise reduction when you go high. Is that what you are asking? This was a simple video showing the two bases. Don't be so over dramatic!
Thank you so much Phil
I hope this isn't a dumb question or answered somewhere else, but in light of the fact that the FX3 has CineEI settings of 800 and 12,800, does this mean that 800 is now the low "base" iso for the a7siii given they have the same sensor? Or is it a software difference between the two cameras?
Also, a second question, does the 640/12800 apply to slog3cine? Many thanks, Philip for doing all this useful testing.
I think the low on then is slightly different. Can’t remember. The low/ high base of those figures is ONLY for slog3
You are a master at your craft! Thanks for all you do! 👌🏽