SCOTUS same-sex wedding cake decision: How both sides say they got here today
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- čas přidán 4. 06. 2018
- ABC News' "Nightline" spoke to cake artist Jack Phillips and married couple Charles Craig and Dave Mullins last week, before the Supreme Court's ruling Monday in Phillips' favor.
Leave this man alone. You don’t like the customer service go to a different store
veerchasm1 here’s the problem he’s a public service he doesn’t have a right to refuse someone service for an unjustifiable reason.
Edit: I take back what I said more than a year later I was wrong the baker had every right to deny service.
This is my thinking: He has a right to be a bigot, yes. And if he wants the bad PR, that's his decision.
That being said, I think weddings aren't just religious ceremonies. They're legal too. Furthermore, if two Jewish people came to his shop would he still bake a cake for them?
The Legend Himself no hes a private company. It would be a public service if he was part of a government organisation
Jeff DeWitt if they align with his beliefs i think he would. In this case if they were a Jewish man and woman
+The Legend Himself
yes he can, you can't force someone else to provide you a service
What happened to "we are legally allowed to refuse service to anyone"
That went out the window back during the Civil rights era when it turns out you actually cannot refuse service to anyone on the basis of race, ethnicity or sex.
tanner peatson nemo me impune lacessit
You can't legally refuse someone for their race, religion or sex and in Colorado you can't do it to people who are gay
Tanner Peatson what are you mad about tanner
Tanner Peatson you got some problems dude, beyond your syntax and construction of a sentence.
If you can hold your wedding in Massachusetts because Colorado does not recognize same-sex marriage, you can find another baker to bake your cake.
perfectly said !
“i BrOkE dOwN aNd StArTeD cRyInG [because I got denied a cake]” that pretty much sums up the mentality of today’s society
Yeah that guy lack testosterone
I must agree with you.
sad to be gay cuz people like that
@@andromedaputraharyanto5420 well hes gay... sooo obviously
Booo hooooooooooo! Stop whining about it and move on you snowflake! You libtards have ruined America! Back in my day we owned slaves, but everyone just had to ruin it with their "civil war"
He offered to sell them anything else, he didn't refuse service period.
Sadly, one has to wonder if the outcome would have been better if he had said flatly, "please get out of my store" without giving any reason.
Way to miss the point...
They didn’t go in for anything else, they went in for a wedding cake. He denied them service of buying a wedding cake because they were a same sex couple, that’s discrimination. But honestly if I were them, I just would have gone to another cake maker, wouldn’t want to give homophobe my money anyway.
jfsfrnd Nope, privately owned business. And I went there and he wouldn’t even make Halloween cakes because he disagreed. This proves that he was going off of his religious and moral beliefs. Not because he wanted to discriminate them.
Noel López yes he did he wasn’t out of cakes or didn’t have the ability to make more he literally said no
So they want him to respect their sexuality but they can’t respect his faith
Ahaha damn I started a huge argument😂😂😂
Maclane Tane I like this
Ryan Richards i'm an atheist but your comment is very rude even to me. If transgenders have the right to BELIEVE they are what they claim to be, then this man also has the right to believe what he wants to. Since when the right to believe in something becomes so "cruel"?
@Ryan Richards I have never been taught or had enough close feeling to any religion to become its believer. But I don't hate religion.
I just base on my common sense here, the baker didn't refuse to bake any other types of cake for the couple, just not a wedding cake. He also sincerely explained his reason. I mean he didn't be disrepectful or curse them. So the couple could have just gone to another bakery, they didn't have to go this far.
If they felt offended, maybe just think differently? Just think that the reason he refused to serve comes from him, not from them and move to another bakery. He's the one who lost profit anyway.
I have seen some owners refuse to serve customers with reason "I'm not in good mood" LOL
I’m not exactly sure who all y’all are but this fighting needs to stop. @RyanRichards just because you hate Christianity because it goes against what you think is right does not mean you need attack us. You can hate God’s rules all you want but that doesn’t change the fact that those rules are still there. Everything we do is a sin unless it is worshiping God because it is all vain. God gets to save who he wants whenever he wants so technically this gay couple could be saved in the end because are sins are all equal. Nevertheless tho this is our religion and if the gay couple can have the same rights to what they think is right then so do we. So could you plz stop telling us that we need to die and so does our religion.
I didn’t mean to start a fight y’all so plz don’t attack me, I just don’t want y’all to keep fighting.
@Snached yea he seems like a perv. I’m rlly srry that he said those disgusting things to you!
I'm on the bakers side on this one.
Me too
@@ryt25 Well, if it's your own business, go ahead and forbid Christians if you want to run it that way, you're right it's your choice since you own the place. I'm a Christian and I would simply go to another shop.
Same
In the same way you cannot force a racist person to be dishonest about their racist attitudes ... yes I do support the baker ...
Yes I understand but...... Everyone will still hate you...even me 😚🙃🙂🤗☺️😂
“He may have won the battle, but he didn’t win the war”, umm I think he won both.
See, that's what's disgusting. They feel this gives them the right to essentially declare war on a fellow American. It's like that line in Animal Farm: All are equal, but some are more equal than others.
@Internet Batman I do believe to this day his business is thriving, you saw how many people came to support him after the fact. “Disgusting bigot” seems to fit you best, because you think you’re so entitled that you “HAVE” to be served so much that you will go to court to force him to serve you, that’s fascism and bigotry.
@Internet Batman
I have a very broad vocabulary kid. And you quite literally fit both definitions of fascism and bigotry... You’re refusal to acknowledge that is ignorant. His business is thriving because private donors have helped him with legal fees that the couple brought onto him. “Run a business is to constantly chase business away”, he wasn’t chasing them away he wanted them that’s why he offered them many alternatives, and he never did this once before so it’s clearly the couples problem, not his problem. In America we have the freedom of religion and if you’re saying that he should change his religion just because you don’t like its values is indeed fascism. “You looked like an unhinged snowflake”, says the one who is defending people who are crying about a damn cake. I mean really it’s a cake yet you’re going to bring this to COURT??!! That’s completely irrational and ridiculous. The world doesn’t evolve around you, so just because something doesn’t work out, that doesn’t mean you can throw a fit.
EDIT: You say baking is the “gayest” form of cooking, that’s very derogatory, so it seems as if you’re fighting against a brick wall.
@Internet Batman Its not discrimination if you’re given alternatives, not to mention it’s his business, it’s his workplace, if you don’t like it leave, go somewhere else, find another baker, make your own cake. And if it’s okay to refuse someone service because they aren’t wearing a mask, why is it bad to give someone alternatives if they ask for something you’re uncomfortable with. It makes no sense but that’s the direction we’re heading into. If Amazon refused me service I would look for a small business who offers the same services... not bitch and cry about something as stupid as a cake. I’ve never watched Food Network, so you’d have to provide me with something where they openly express baking to be the “gayest form of cooking”.
Once again the world doesn’t revolve around YOU, so if you feel hurt don’t make it another persons problem.
@Internet Batman Oh you’re right “ Oh no I can’t get a cake but I can get brownies” Boom discrimination.
That’s makes no literal sense whatsoever.
From a gay man, this gay couple should've respected this religous mans rights. Just like he respected their ways of being. I sometimes don't understand how we in the community sometimes don't think to respect others people's beliefs when that is all we ask. This makes the couple look like hypocrites, honestly.
dandagod official that’s not how it works, religious freedom only goes as long as it isn’t violating the law. What they private business is doing here is not violating the law, however, your terroristic idea of a religion would be. It scares me that Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Sonia Sotomayor both voted in favor of the couple, this is a black and white constitutionality case.
dandagod official your really a stupid person damn maybe you should just move to a different country
dandagod official someone please make this guy stfu
Joey Jeffries I think he is
dandagod official what like you?!!!
If you replaced Christian with Muslim this story would of never aired.
Captain Gaming why not
Maroon Horizon because this country’s liberals are Muslim sympathisers
Captain Gaming Corey would have put rocks in the cake
Youre a moron...but because your grammar sucks
Captain Gaming thank you 🙏🏻
So...he respectfully denied them a cake but offered them cookies, brownies, anything else. Didn’t say anything derogatory about them being a gay couple, just said he wouldn’t create the cake for the wedding...I’m really not seeing where this had to become a federal case...a simple “Oh, that’s disappointing. Thank you for your time.” Would’ve sufficed. Baker was respectful which is exactly how a good Christian man would be...
They needed a Custom Wedding Cake for their wedding reception not cookies or brownies.
@@sr2291 They could have found another shop willing to make a wedding cake. Expression is not something that should be compelled. It violates the First Amendment.
@Quinntus79 Define "expression". That's the problem. Churches were invented for religious people to worship in. They don't need to worship at work. They need to do their jobs like everyone else has to.
they tarnished his bakery, that shows more about their character than anything. honestly disgusting and sad, i hope his bakery can recover
Robert Lynch It’s an independent bakery owned by him. While he denied the service of making a wedding cake (a longer, more time consuming process) for them, he did not say he wouldn’t serve them other things. “maybe he shouldn’t have signed up to be a baker” that is his right and his passion and he is holding to his beliefs. I believe he handled the situation as well as he could. smh
The bakery's tarnished reputation is the direct result of the baker's actions. When he made the decision to deny service on the basis of sexuality, he should've recognized that there would be social consequences, as society generally accepts same-sex marriage nowadays. It may be within his right to deny service to anyone, but the couple also have the right to describe the discrimination to the public.
@@Christopher-D Thai was in 2012 and it still wasn’t very accepted then. It wasn’t even legal everywhere yet. Those two guys just shouldn’t have been little pussys about it and just went somewhere else
@@spidermonkeynuts3851 You Clearly don't understand how business works I've taken business courses and his downfall was inevitable. Business is brutal, competition is everywhere and sites to rate businesses existed then. During that time gay marriage was on a rise and any smart business owner would have taken the opportunity to serve theses men in order to gain more recognition and more customers regardless of belief. His decision was gonna cripple his business whether he liked it or not because people talk, the word would have spread and the business would have been viewed negatively in society. A smart business owner would set their beliefs and political views aside in order to appeal to the masses and to keep their business open as well as make profit, the more people they please the better regardless of how they feel about it.
@@rafaelmartinez-gb3wr
A smart business owner would have recognized that serving the gay couple would probably be more benefitial in the long term.
But it doesn't mean he would have done so if he also had principles whom he'd put above financial interests.
Small businesses aren't exactly the same as Tesco or Wallmart, they aren't fully driven by profit, in the case of a bakery especially, bakers often work out of passion rather than a wish for financial gain.
His bakery ... his decision
Apparently the baker has no decision - the state commission decided for him which ended closing his wedding cake line. On the other hand the SC decided to rule for the this baker. As for other business owner, be careful not to deny service to anyone.
+M Tabin yeah ..you own a store.. two scumbags come in.. you know they will cause trouble most likely.. but you cant deny them right
"My bakery... my choice", alot better than "my body... my choice".
The saying "my body my choice" forgets to take the body and choice of the fetus into consideration though.
Same logic as refusing to bake for someone because they're black
*On a serious note though, this guy is a talented baker. 🎂*
Harambe Jr. He truly is
sethc18769 and they ruined this guys life he lost 40 perceng of his profit as hs said and he has gotten death threats.
He is truly amazing at its perfection, it make me sad how lgbt people always ruin other people's dreams
Cakes can't be gay but they can have a gay theme cake. Also, the baker while talented should be forced to provide the same level of service and same type of service as he would to a straight couple to a homosexual couple. Now, if he does not want to make a gay themed wedding cake he should not have to.
jfsfrnd no he should not be forced to design a cake in a certain manor or incorporate a certain theme. I stated so earlier. Just because a wedding is celebrating the union of two homosexuals does not mean the wedding cake is going to have a homosexual theme to it.
3:42 “we wrote just a small modest post that said: hey, we were discriminated against this cake shop”. No, that is no true, they did not just wrote a small note on discrimination, they clearly urged hatred demonstrations against the baker, as much so that they provided the picture and information and asked people to send (not exactly friendly) e-mails to the baker. That was inciting people against the baker, no matter which way we want to see their action. They were not the victims, they were vengeful and hateful people who got their way by having the baker receiving death threats. I am glad the baker got back his business and we all got confirmed our rights to create what we want and what we believe in. NOBODY should be forced to create something that they disagree on, whatever the reason that be.
There are no religious beliefs here
@@teamtundra2619 in the gay ppl, of course not
Bullies!!!!
lol oh wow... spare me honey.
It's the dumbest argument ever. Businesses refuse business to people all the time for other reasons
Other reasons such as what?
The most overused word “bigot “ just bc someone doesn’t agree with you ...
The fuck is a bigot anyway? Like what's it even mean.
@@greysonG10 "a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions." Nowadays people put the "bigot" label on others who don't agree with them on controversial topics. An example would be not agreeing with / not supporting LGBTQASDFASDFASDF+
cameron crayton I think not agreeing with someone's existence or rights is plenty bigoted so the baker is a bigot. He can pretend and say " ohhh I'm so niceeee to gay people " but do you really think he voted for gay rights?
@@theneverone Not supporting something you don't believe in/agree with is not the same as being intolerant. I think the baker is more worried about being allowed to run his business in alignment with his religious beliefs rather than fighting against the gay couple and their rights.
Jackson G But his religious beliefs are harmful
These guys act like they walked out of a bakery owned by the KKK.
Check
@@arcturus4762 I would rather have harmless racists
Harmless racists are nothing compared to violent "anti-racists" who will put you in jail for staring at them for half a second
😂😂😂😂 fr
Max77 you be discriminated and let’s see how you feel
If I ever go to Colorado, I’ll make sure to support this local business.
Facts
Me too. If only I'd known about this place when I last went up there
Same
He lost a court case recently. You should go read why.
Same
I love this man, stand up for his faith
I’ve met him before he seems to stand up for what he believes even when it’s looked down in. Nice dude too.
victory victory i do in my boutiqe! i don’t allow christians my products
@@ryt25 You can't deny someone product just because they are Christian. Maybe if they asked you to make a product for their church or Christian event, sure you could deny that. But if they just want product, you can't deny it because of their religion
@@sudeepjoseph69 its a private business
@@oldmanjenkins9230 That doesn’t matter. You can’t discriminate based on race, religion, ethnicity, or sex
Gay or not, those guys just seem like genuinely awful people. It's like they're just dripping with entitlement. I'm not even religious, but I'm glad the baker won; he appears to be a really sweet man. Honestly wishing the best for him from here on out.
Punkyagogo yeah, they just seem like shit starters. They show the cake guy doing his thing...it's creating a painting on a cake. They show them doing their thing...their heads are in their computers and they are typing away furiously...like wtf? Are they just professional facebookers or something?
SquareRootOf2 Seeking justice in court is harassment? I don't personally think they have a valid case but you just seem like someone who likes to jail people just for being different. That's pretty lame..
It was them who started this campaign of harassment against this honest and helpless baker, tweeting about it, suing and arising hate against him.
These people are POS that only care about themselves and their narcissism and their sexual desires imposed on other people.
Of course I care when these disgusting activists try to impose their twisted worldview on others. I care a lot. Not about what they stick up their asses in private but about their hateful, fascist way to impose themselves on others, abusing the natural tolerance of honest people.
There are plenty of "normal" gays that go about their business without bothering others. I don't mind about honest gays but gay activists should be dealt with like they do in Muslims countries, who are very tolerant and the religion of peace and Holy Qu'ran has humane treatment for them.
Or are you one of those Slavic Islamophobes?
kyjo72682 Why should I look in the mirror? I'm not gay. You look in the mirror, Nazi islamophobe!
Punkyagogo That "sweet man" believes gay people should be denied the same rights as straight people (i.e marriage).
Oh for cryin' out loud, just go to another bakery.
Derek Hansin They dont want other bakerys they want this one becouse its a Christian one
The shouldn’t have to tho.
Eurovision Fan tv that's bullshit, grow up. Stop throwing a fit and go somewhere else.
justin holmes what if a black person wanting a cake and he denied a black person the cake because of his religion it is not okay he should just bake the cake god doesn’t hate anyone
Eurovision Fan tv but that wasn't the issue, those are two separate issues.
U guys are just extremely crazy.....its his faith, I would also do the same
these two guys went looking for a fight and lost.
Thanks to them, Trump is banned on Twitter and Facebook though 🤣
@@anthonyg9197not anymore 😂
I wish I could stand up for that Baker. This is ridiculous.
Danielle Adair lmaoooo 😂 You’re the definition of ignorant.
It’s sad how not a lot of people stood up for him
Hes currently going through his third lawsuit. This time its a transgender cake. The state and some members of the lgbt are clearly harassing the man
Jordan Lynch really?? Yeah wow they clearly have it out for him
@@enigma2297 this is harrassment.
I’m bisexual and I support the Baker. Go to a different bakery. It would be one thing if he refused service entirely, but he was fine with birthday cakes or anything else - just not a wedding cake. Leave him alone.
I am also bi and i agree with you. It wasn't fair to the baker. The two guy shouldn't have taken it that far. There was honestly no need for all this drama. Just go to another baker, there are plenty of them out there who would happily oblige.
The baker doesn't deserve all this hate. I feel bad for his small business that was destroyed because of this situation.
Bisexual !😲 poor soul
Pasta Zi Bearlid He actually ended up fine after the trial thankfully because he was allowed to start selling wedding cakes again and choose who to make them for. :) But I agree. They made such a big deal out of it. Just go to a different baker! They really just needed everyone to accommodate their choice.
Dan Shivers That’s very hypocritical to say because the lgbt will only defend people who are in the lgbt not everybody, do you realize that people all over the world gets discriminated every day and none of the lgbt makes any noise to defend them, where was the lgbt when 10 Christians were decapitated by isis simply for no denying God? where were the lgbt when many african american Christians woman , men even childrens were burned alive just for being Christian? Where were the lgbt when the Christian church were killed with a rifle? Where is the lgbt when schools discriminate childrens for being black, but when their was killings in a gay club in orlando that’s when the lgbt start showing support and protest.
Dan Shivers lgbt community being around for many years what haven’t they done anything yet? I mean if you would start thinking in defending and stand up for everybody wouldn’t you start doing it after you thought about ?
Even if you don’t want to accept it just face it that they did this just because he is a Christian that doesn’t support the lgbt because even you agree with me that people get discriminated everyday and they don’t do nothing about it.
I'm with the business owner. He has the right to refuse service and he has a right to say his faith.
The guys should have just toughened up and go to another bakery
We are Not Government workers that do and bake what they force to , we have religious freedom and free speech. God bless this man for staying strong in his faith.
This baker is way to sweet, the gay guy claimed he never ever had been treated this way as if someone beat him up because of his sexual orientation when in reality all the baker did was deny decorating the cake also apologizing them for the inconvenience and offering them other goods. I'm glad he won. These people disgust me.
Your local redhead feminist He didn’t apologise
London Girl Yeah he did. He said multiple times that he was sorry
@@melwin5574 He didn't apologise because he doesn't need to, he just said that it's not like he's enjoying refusing to do cakes.
@Your local redhead feminist Over 42 million Americans (13% of total population) believe it's "always wrong" for two people of a different race to marry, many for religious reasons. Do you support a baker's right to bake wedding cakes for couples of the same race, but to refuse them to interracial couples?
Derek Williams It’s his rights. I would serve anyone if I was a baker but I could see why he wouldn’t because of his religious beliefs. I think he should have he right to deny service to anyone as long as he has a valid reason for example religion.
Government: You gotta create cakes for gay marriages
Baker: *stops making wedding cakes*
Savage.
What a legend 👌🏼
That’s what should happen. He should sell wedding cakes to everyone or no one
Robron He didn’t refuse to make them a cake 🤦♂️
@@Lucky210309 it's his right to refuse service. The guy isn't even homophobic he refuses to make cakes that represent homosexuality and anti-homosexuality
Zoro Agario he refused to make them a wedding cake he sells to other people. That's refusing service.
"creating a generic wedding cake" would be an issue because that would be like "separate but equal" service. The baker's choice to politely refuse was clearly the best option for everyone involved.
And he didn't say he wouldn't serve lgbtq people. He just says he wouldn't bake a cake celebrating their union. You wouldn't go into a muslim restraunt and order pork.
"5 years later that interaction still stings: I was mortified, I mean neither one of us had ever been treated this way before at a bisnuss" I can't behleve the let some softy who got their feelings hurt over a cake go all the way to supreme Court. Parrents, please raise your kids better.
Parents are being undermined on all sides- Society, public school, sports, peer pressure etc. Parents can do their best to provide, be involved & still lose the battle as the kids hear the "sirens" drawing them down a dark road. At the end of the day, kids choose to be & do, regardless of upbringing. I know this bc I was a foster kid for almost 8 yrs of childhood. I decided for myself what type of person I wanted to be- with the help of Almighy God.
How immature adults behave when they have been told no. A type of tantrum if you ask me. As a woman, I have seen females getting into witchcraft because they want their way. I pray to God for maturity in our earth.
Would you walk into a Jewish cake shop & expect them to make you a Jesus cake?
Would walk into a Muslim cake shop & expect them to draw naked women on your cake?
I wouldn't walk into an LGBT cake shop & expect them to make me something that goes against there beliefs.
That's equality...
Wondering if a gay bakery would make a Christian cake...
@@girlnotoftheworld2008 I'm willing to bet many wouldn't have, but now that this happened some might change their mind to seem less bias
*their
Equality is treating everyone equally, so a Jewish cake shop WOULD make a Jesus cake. A Muslim cake shop WOULD for whatever reason draw a woman on your cake. Those two religions both believe in being human. Being humans means you treat people kindly, fairly, and with respect (for the record so does Christianity).
SLSLSKSKKSKSDBANDJJS JESUS WAS JEWISH IM SCREAMING BAHAHAHAH
These gay guys are so rude. Look at what they did to this man all because of a cake.
Well, really, it's all because they didn't get their way in a world/bubble that tells them how special they are.
austin mattingly The baker made all the wrong choices. Don’t blame others for your own choices and their repercussions
@@mylifepostpain3705 Your name says it all. How's the knifing over there? You fools banned guns now people are stabbing everyone. Up over 1000% and i'm sure you see it all over the news.
Your area is so shite you need to worry about your own godless country.
It's not even rude. It's entitled.
G A says the man whose from a country where a mass shooting happens literally every week. Yes we have a knife problem, which is actually getting better due to new laws passed two weeks ago. Where as Donald Duck in the White House thinks it’s still too premature to talk about gun control. How many people need to die before Americans pull their fingers out of their asses and actually do something about it?!
Dude I'm LGBT and honestly I side with the baker because I don't wanna force someone to do something they don't wanna do and not for hateful reasons he's a nice person he just dosen't want to do it for deep religious beliefs and I wouldn't want someone to go against that for my benefit.
@Mason Koski Yes, thank you for being civilized. We as human beings have to know we can respect each other even though we disagree on things.
Either you're just saying your queer to get attention or you actually are... either way, this is segregation... and the same laws that protect the baker also....
1) Allow doctors to refuse medical care to LGBTQ+ people
2) Allow religious institutions to fire queer people just because of their orientation/identity
3) Protect religious based adoption agencies when they deny services to same sex couples while still demanding that those same people pay their salaries (as many are tax payer funded)
... I could go on and on and on. If you really are who you say you are, why would you want to protect religious privilege before protecting so many people's livelihoods?
@@KeilyShhh No I'am Non-Binary and Pansexual, but it's actually not, and to break down what you said. You shouldn't be a doctor if you're not going to treat everyone, if religious institutions want to be hateful then the public will decide weather or not to take part with them, and religious based adoption agencies should frankly not exist. Anything that is taxpayer funded should 100% treat people equally regardless of their sexual orientation or gender identity. But here's the thing, if that baker was forced to make a cake that goes against his religious beliefs for an LGBTQ+ Couple, that would also samely apply to an LGBTQ+ Baker being forced to make a homophobic cake despite being Episcopalian or Unitarian Universalist or Presbyterian or some other LGBTQ+ accepting church and having those beliefs. The script can be flipped in a lot of unfortunate ways, and I know if I owned my own business I would not want to be forced to serve someone hateful, and I don't think this man should be told who we can or can't serve. Honestly I think business should be required to post that in the window so we know what kind of places we're spending our money at and weather or not they care about us or not. But no, must of what you mentioned, that can have an extremely valid argument for why that shouldn't be in place and doesn't "go against someones religious protections" cause it does harm the public overall, but this cake thing, it doesn't, and I think of how if he court hadn't sided with the baker, how this could be weaponized, and that's honestly more terrifying.
@@sunnyboi2461 Okay, I'm sorry for accusing you of lying about your orientation and identity. And I do hear what you're saying and yes, there is nuance in this debate.
But first of all, saying that it's wrong for doctors to deny care because to those they are prejudice against doesn't change the fact that it happens and that it's perfectly legal. It doesn't change the fact that people who need medical care are being forced to look elsewhere (sometimes even in emergency situations).
And yes, faith-based child care services should not exist... That doesn't change the fact that they do exist and that reform needs to happen so that queer people don't have to pay for services that they are being denied.
My big question/point is this:
1) I hear your point that concerns freedom of speech. One thing I would say though is that if someone denies services to one individual that they ALSO deny to EVERYONE ELSE, that is very different than denying services to someone that you DO provide to other people. For example, someone who bakes wedding cakes for straight couples but denies the exact same service to LGBQ+ folks. In the latter example, it's the queer individuals that are being denied services rather than the baker simply using their own discretion.
2) When the same laws that protect artists from denying services to us queer folks ALSO protects anyone who denies essential services/employment to us... can you tell me how you would neatly make it so that under absolutely NO circumstances are we denied services that will hurt our livelihoods?
3) And when businesses can post notes in their windows that tell queer people "You are not welcome here" or "Go somewhere where you are welcome"... that's segregation. It was segregation when it applied to people of color and is no different than when it's directed towards us.
I'd quote MLK Jr. when he said "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere".
I know it's just a freaking cake but there's more to it than just that.
@@KeilyShhh there's obviously more to this then it just being a cake. And no kidding, it doesn't the change facts all those things currently exist, that's why I'm glad I live in California where those things thankfully don't exist and with my work in politics, work to elect people to help try and fix those problems in this country. And I'll be honest, personally, I sort of agree that any private business should have the ability to serve or not serve whomever they want too, I mean we protect hate speech in this country, and if people want to be racist or sexist or homophobic then air those feelings out to everyone so we know where too or not too spend our money. And to your question of how to make sure that those laws that might protect those things don't interfere with people being denied essential services or civil rights or anything of that nature. If your part of a company, that is getting any sort of funds from the government, then you should be required to have to follow anti-discrimination laws, and that includes any places with SBA Loans or Govt Subsidies or a Federal Contract. Like I'd feel that would be the only way to get any sort of version of The Equality Act passed and have some protections at least when it comes to public services and those kinds of things you talked about.
Would you go in a hindu restaurant and demand beef ? Or a Muslim on and demand pork?
Why should the Christian baker forced against his religion
He was ready to serve them, was polite to them...... Just didn't agree to make a wedding cake because of what his religion says about it
@Quint Zed that's your opinion and that's completely fine..... But he should not be forced to abide by that
@Quint Zed I understand it's your opinion
All they had to do was go somewhere else! Drama queens.
Kings**
Louie Salvador they both want to eat that dick, they’re drama QUEENS
@@marcuslea6821 LMAO
Well when men are acting like women what did you expect lol. They should’ve went somewhere else there are plenty of gay bakers.
Yeah no that’s discrimination at its worst . It’s disgusting that this still goes on . Humanity is so disappointing .
It's a private business. He has the right to do what he wants
It's a slippery slope. For example I support Jack's right to not make a wedding cake because that goes against his religious beliefs. But if he didn't want to make them lets say a birthday cake or anything else because they're gay I wouldn't support that. Do you think a business should be able to turn away black people just for being black or chinese people for being chinese? Just because it's a private business?
@@jsilva7005 that my friend is the free market. He turns away someone for being black he will lose money because of the couple he turned away and the people the couple told. However he should have the right to do whatever he wants. It's in his interest to not turn them away. There is more then 1 cake business out there.
@@jsilva7005 he didn't refuse service just a wedding cake you cant apply that to race
@@jsilva7005 Would any homosexual baker bake a cake with "homosexuality is a sin" ?
@@jsilva7005 should an Israeli baker be forced to make a cake to a Palestinian?
As a gay man myself I think it’s ridiculous to force someone’s hand to bake you a wedding cake if they don’t respect your choice of who you chose to marry. Don’t you want people in your wedding ceremony because they are happy for you? Both of you ? I would turn around and tell the baker: Fine, It’s you’re business’ loss then.
Do u also agree with jim crow
@subhojitdas264 jim crow was government-enforced discrimination, not government-permitted descrimination. They are worlds apart
I am deeply concerned for the baker's safety. Leave the man alone. Forcing him to make a gay cake is also a discrimination against his faith.
1) Baker refuses to make cake.
2) Baker gets a multi-year lawsuit.
3) Baker loses 40% of his business and gets death threats.
4) Who's the victim here?
>The baker is an adult and makes his own choices.
So is the couple, who believed that being a good human is to force their beliefs in other people's throat, instead of going to another shop.
But sexuality and race aren't really the same thing.
People often say they are when arguing against religious freedom.
"A small modest post"
*writes an entire post with store information and inciting people to take action against said store*
lol yes that's what I thought
How about forcing a vegan cook in their vegan restaurant to cook meat for you?
I'm so happy for the baker!! Go Christian soldier! God bless you.
*bigot soldier
@@udhav423 heretic
Allah Akbar
@@ILoveLuhaidan repent
@@hellohowareyou7495 I am muslim, Jesus is the prophet of god
3:07 “the bakery may have won the battle but not the war” honey this went to the Supreme Court that means it won the war lol
You need to watch the whole video. They only ruled on the court being hostile to the baker. They didn't say he could discriminate!
kleyton rossi wrong Christians are finally losing to gays the united states just legalized gay marriage across the united states. And Ireland legalized gay marriage gays 2 Christians 1 so who is losing the war
Charles F well this “war” was about the freedom of religion beliefs... what you are talking about is something different. It’s a different war and honestly most people don’t care... the thing is to recognize the religious freedom that Christians have and don’t force us to do something that we believe is not right.
kleyton rossi first of the baker had absolutely no right to use his business as a platform to spread his hate based on his relgous beliefs and the supreme court failed to see that and it should have been 7-0 in favor of the gay couple as a message his business practice was unethical
Charles F how was he spreading hate??? This man would’ve sold them cupcakes, brownies and etc. he just didn’t do cakes because it’s a form of art. His art is created for a man and a woman. Why don’t you guys get that?!? In the video, no form of hate was shown by him. Hate came from the LGBT people who were trying to force him to bake something that went against his religious belief. I’m surprised that people have yet to know that us Christians are against hate
This was so unfair to the baker.
why?
@pastor brian I'm not Christian. But I do have a deep respect for any person believes.My mom is Cristian. If the person is not harming anybody and being respectful with others, why not? Why they didn't go to a muslim bakery? He didn't refuse to do the cake. Only to do the decoration, because it was against his beliefs. Here in America, we want to respect other religions that are less tolerant, but ridicules Christian faith. The man looks, like a kind hearted guy. By the way my best friend is super gay and agree with me, those two are attention whores.
@@planetagonzo most gay people agree with me.....if he is a buisness he should obay the law.....otherwise why own a buisness?
pastor brian sorry you can refused service to any person. That’s the law as well. They did it with malicious intentions. They look so entitled. Why they didn’t did this with a Muslim baker or a Jew baker. The result it was going to be the same. He didn’t discriminated them. Can you respect someone religion? Because if not your a bigot as well.
@@planetagonzo not by law, sorry
Why should someone's right to buy a cake trump someone's right to freedom of religion? Its hypocritical to say its discrimination of your sexuality, when you're discriminating based on the bakers religion. There are dozens of bakers to choose from, it wouldn't have taken much to say 'That's a shame, but we respect your rights. We will go somewhere else'
As a right leaning libertarian, if you want to have a same-sex marriage fine, that's your right. But you can't go into a church/mosque/synagogue/bakery/florist and force them to hold or be involved in the ceremony, in the same way as a Christian/Muslim/Jew can't force you to go to their religious ceremony
Tolerance works both ways. If you want people to be tolerant of how you live your life, you need to be tolerant of how others live their life, whether you agree with their decisions or not, thats just basic human respect
You're my new best friend
@@JavaughnAnderson haha, thanks 😅
As a Christian I have the atmost respect to the baker. He did not compromise his core fundamental beliefs for popularity and to fit into social norms.
If a baker refuses to sell his cake for religious reasons to black couple because he thinks that black people shouldn't have any rights, would you be OK with that?
@@goranmilic442What religion believes that
@@uai6107 Christians in 19th century Southern USA believed that. Maybe those beliefs weren't really aligned with what Bible actually said, but they generally believed that, based on the myth of Noah and his sons. Since their religious beliefs were that black people shouldn't have any rights, should they be allowed to refuse to sell a cake to black couple? Yes or no?
@@goranmilic442 no
@@goranmilic442 Christianity does not state the hatred of black people. So youre wrong
Equal rights doesn't take the form of forcing a baker to make you a cake.
T G was it equality when businesses refused to serve African Americans? Was that fair? If we give the right for a business to deny service towards anyone, we give the right for all businesses to deny service to any group they choose.
Henry Sendra Yes...When said African Americans cause a disruption, they can be asked to leave. I’ve done it several times. It’s not my fault if your presence causes a disturbance. If you bring down my business, I’m kicking your ass out.
If you stole my hat, I can kick you out of my store.
If you decide to mock my religion by pretending to have a ceremony I find sacred, Well we all know where this headed.
kimmie Wise I was mentioning innocent people who just wanted to be served. It was completely unfair to not allow them service based on their skin tone. Also, gay people aren’t pretending to have marriage, they are legally getting married, and there’s nothing you can do to stop them from doing so other than blind violence.
Jane Doe I agree it’s harmful when anyone is mistreated when trying to be a patron of a restaurant or store, and I can sort of see where the baker is coming from with the wedding cake, it still doesn’t make much sense to me that we can allow an public shop to pick and choose which people are allowed to purchase which items. I also appreciate your civility in your replies to my comment. Thank you.
Henry Sendra I believe a business has a right to refuse to anyone for any reason... just say nothing at all and don’t serve who you don’t want keep your mouth shut ask them to leave and move on avoid any problwms
"It was never about cakes." Proof it was a set up from the beginning.
Yes it was a set up by the devil, there's plenty more persecution to come for christians....beware ppl
exalt the KING OF KINGS.
fast cash 6:00
@@lodestar9877 The gays are fighting a voice in their head that says stop but they keep going I think.
Bad karma coming to those gay men for messing with a guy trying to follow his beliefs.
Beliefs differ and it’s his business. He built it and can choose to deny his customers. He’s the one losing money at the end of the day. This was just done for attention and you can’t deny that after how much it of it it’s gotten.
I’m really thankful and happy brother Jack won!! Praise the Lord!! Blessings from Canada 🇨🇦
If the cake guy was Muslum or Amish this would not be happening.
@janjan de vil You wouldn't want to know
vil muslimbill
Muslim and amish are seen as minorities but since the shop owner was a straight white man who's a christian, it's okay to attack him apparently
New change unlisted_viewer omg shut up y’all are acting like it’s a crime to be white and a man
There are numerous Muslim Bakers who also refused but no one seems to care about that they're only attacking Christians very fascinating
avader5 Maybe the couple actually identify as Christians and so feel betrayed by their own religion
@@mylifepostpain3705 well why tho, have they seen Leviticus 18:22
@@mylifepostpain3705 Christians who practice Homosexuality?!! Get educated Sweety
Vladimir K I am very well educated. It is possible to be Christian and gay as well. I have a few friends who are both. Or do you think that it’s okay to deny gay people the right to religious freedom? (The very thing you are fighting for for this man)
London Girl "Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God" . (Corinthians 6:9-10). Lady, your friends are either lying to themselves or they don't know better. Here is more "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination"(Leviticus 18:22). You cannot be gay and christian, in this case you either dishonest or misinformed.
Just go to another bakery. It’s not that hard
Crazy people smh
Ryoma The Lobster Lord they wanted to stir up trouble
They are so into them selves
Nowadays we gotta bend over for these people
Do you say that to an interrcial couple, if a baker doesn't approve of marriage between the races? Over 40 million Americans still believe God opposes miscegenation. And what if it's. one-horse town with only one bakery, and it's a 140 mile drive to the next, and THEY don't serve gays or blacks either?
@@africaisacontinent2149 For wanting fair and equal treatment? I hardly think so. The baker broke the law.
It’s his business he can run it the way he wants and I agree with him.
I am definitely in support of the baker... and reading the comments I'm so happy that most of us agree that forcing someone to go against their religious beliefs for our own benefit is quite hypocritical. I hope the Baker gets back to making wedding cakes again.
I'm a gay man and I'm on the baker's side. How about we force a Jewish bakery to bake a cake commemorating Hitler next? I heard those guys knew he wouldn't bake that cake and they just went there to stir up trouble.
GO TO ANOTHER BAKERY!
You're just a kiss ass to society because you hate yourself and to blend in.
jfsfrnd
I think you're missing the point lmao, it's not about hitler it's about forcing someone to make a msg they don't believe in
thats part of it yeah, if the service in question forces the laborer to write something he or she dont wanna write lmao
remember the baker was requested to bake a cake that said "i support gay marriage" or some shit like that. That's compelled speech lol
O fuk, i stand corrected. Still, I agree with the decision tho, the supreme court's logic is pretty sound. Read here: www.cnn.com/2018/06/04/politics/masterpiece-colorado-gay-marriage-cake-supreme-court/index.html
okay so its wrong for him to stand up for what he believes but its encouraged in the gay community?
Tannar Mathers His beliefs are oppressive though where as ours are liberating
London Girl oh yeah it’s super liberating to force a Christian to bake a “gay themed” cake. LGBT community will never be taken seriously because of you hypocritical sjw’s. This couple wasn’t treated as second class citizens or denied basic civil rights because a baker refused a wedding cake, and even offered them other deserts to sell them. This was nothing but harmful for the community, because of how negligent the entire situation was. Focus on the big picture and real cases of discrimination.
LemonCoconut If you actually watch the video he refused them before they could even discuss the theme of the wedding cake so to say he refused a gay themed cake is incorrect.
LemonCoconut If you actually watch the video he refused them before they could even discuss the theme of the wedding cake so to say he refused a gay themed cake is incorrect. This guy refused them a wedding cake because they are gay and that’s wrong regardless of whether he likes gay marriage or not. He needs to keep his personal opinions out of business. Ever heard of the saying it’s not personal it’s business? It directly applies here
London Girl If he has to design the cake with both their names, which was definitely going to happen, Then that alone was enough to make it artistic, and all these guy’s wedding cakes are complex feats, not just Some basic cake.
Thank God he won in the end. What a strong, courageous man.
Hope he can put traditional wedding cakes back in business too, and never have a problem like that again.
He is trash and must be shut down for good and canceled
He did not win in the end. The Colorado Commission made disparaging comments about Jack and his religion so they threw the case out and made a narrow decision only for the baker and only for this one time.
I broke down and started crying boohoo. . There are bakers who stand for nothing ,ask them to bake your cake.
When u hear him talk and apologize to them when he can't do that, he sounds very nice. He doesn't refuse to be with them or talk to them because they are gay, it's purely because of the ceremonial value of a wedding.
But he is not even factoring in it is THEIR wedding.
Not his.
theQuestion626 understand that by doing the cake for them he is being part of it, he helped with the wedding by doing that.
Example is like if a person ask me money for beer and I give him money then i’m responsible on why that person bought beers.
theQuestion626 exactly, which is why he doesn’t have to be involved if he chooses not to.
That baker is gonna shit himself when he hears what Jesus had to say about capitalism.
CAT DURGS “a wedding should be between a man and a woman” quote the bakery owner dude
NO SHIT THEY WOULD CURSE BECAUSE HE JUST FUCKING GAVE THE A LESSON ABOUT HOW MARRIAGE SHOULD BE LIKE WHEN THEY DONT FIT INTO THE “REQUIREMENTS OF THE CONSTITUTION OF MARRIAGE” so how would they not be offended they just wanted a cake
I'm an atheist and I have 💯% respect for this guy standing up for his beliefs, convictions and principles.
I'm also an atheist and I 100% agree with you.
I am also okay with gay people getting married (honestly because I don't really give a shit what people do), so both people the right and the left give me shit.
If this was a Muslim baker I would be saying the same thing. I am in support of everyone's right to believe whatever they want, I just do not want:
1. Laws based off of religion
2. Anyone's beliefs shoved down my kid's throat
People need to lighten up...
@@lancec7027 Psalm 14 King James Version (KJV)
14 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
2 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.
3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
4 Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread, and call not upon the Lord.
Psalm 14 King James Version (KJV)
14 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
2 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.
3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
4 Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread, and call not upon the Lord.
2 Peter 3:5
For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse
@@dwayneoneil689 Quoting your religious book is not really making a point. Watch, I'll give an example:
Luke 19:26-27
“He replied, ‘I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what they have will be taken away. 27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them-bring them here and kill them in front of me.’” Jesus sounded like a dick (but in the end, this is a book of fiction).
Even though I was in support of this guy's (the baker) right to his beliefs (and everyone else's for that matter) you decide to push your faith on someone you don' know (and attempt to insult them by doing so). How "Christian" of you...
"Its not about the cake" its about you not letting me force myself onto you lmao bro
Go find another baker to bake your cake. Gosh you want people to respect your rights but you cant respect others rights.
Just from first impressions, the gay couple seems arrogant and like they're seeking a fight, whereas the Christian man seems humble and not looking to offend, just staying true to his convictions. I respect that.
That's not really what happened.. he discriminated against them based upon his own subjective beliefs.. that's wrong.. the conservative-leaning Supreme Court got it wrong
The Jock, what so aren’t the gay couple all about “equality” and “freedom of speech”? They are taking that exact thing away from the man. He refused to make them a cake because of his religion in a country where you have freedom of speech. The hypocrisy is real from the gay couple.
@@Aqixtez that's not material to the complaint. in this country, if you offer a service to the public, you can't be selective over who receives that service.. That violates someone civil liberties.. the Supreme Court knows that, that's why they made such a narrow ruling..
The Jock, “such a narrow ruling”. Yet they were still in favour of the Baker. If it were such a huge issue and if the gay couple did have a valid argument they would’ve won. Yet I don’t see them celebrating. No point in arguing if the legal system has gone in favour of the baker.
@@Aqixtez actually, if you review the case, they didn't really favor the baker.. they found fault in the review process from the state of Colorado's civil rights division.. regardless, it was an arbitrary decision..
Just go to another baker. Problem solved. At least he politely refused.
C Brown Or start your own business.
I'm so thankful that Jesus suffered on the cross so a baker didn't have to make a cake! Phew...all that pain and suffering for a cake was worth it...PS more then 50% of Americans are in poverty...better blame the gays for that one too! They don't deserve cake.
Kumar Shresta What does Jesus have to do with anything?
Aharon Lawrence Things like this.
Fortnite Clips And you don't want to understand, nor are you asked to defend yourself.
If you don't believe in God, Jesus, the Bible, fine.
Your accountability.
Could you imagine being so fragile that you cry because someone wouldnt bake you a cake?
@Crazy melon ! Like if a goverment discriminated against a baker for his religious beliefs? Discrimination is a necessary part of life. You only disagree with discrimination when it involves a group you are politically affliated with. Grow up.
@Crazy melon ! You can not even put a coherent sentence together. Your lack of appropriate punctuation demonstrates you have the IQ of a turnip. The state threatened to prosecute him if he didn't bake the cake. Even after he won his lawsuit the state continued to harass him. You have no idea what you are talking about. The First Amendment was explicitly written to protect religious people.
@Crazy melon ! Being "hurt" is irrelevant. Citizens have the right to worship God as they see fit. You have a first amendment right. You have no right to force someone to make you a cake. These assholes tried to FORCE a guy to bake them a cake that was in direct contridiction to his religious beliefs. Not only that, they used the government to do it. Screw them theu are evil people.
If one business refuses you a service, GO FIND ANOTHER BUSINESS!!!!
You are not entitled to insisting on one business for your demands. There are other businesses that can offer you a service. Honestly.
It's like suing Mormon restaurant owners for refusing to serve you beer.
A Mormon restaurant probably wouldn't even sell beer
@@MASTEROFEVIL r/woosh
Can they even drink beer
@@mikey_stone06 no alcohol consumption is allowed in their religion
That’s tough
The baker had every right doing that.
I didnt cry when my dog died and i love him with all my heart because i knew i had to be tough for him , and you cry for a cake
3:36 it's basically asking people to bully the shop owner. If they have problems go to the court. Idk why but left liberals and LGBT people think that it's for them to decide what's right and what's wrong.
Someone refused to sell me something once because I worked at a hospital they hated. I went to another store. The end.
Next time wear the mask to hide your identity and they will serve u
Hahah exactly!
That is not illegal because you weren't being discriminated against.
@@DerekWilliamsMusic bro. nobody was discriminated against.
@@kerstin7133 Not in the hospital analogy given by the OP, but in the bakery case, the gay couple WERE discriminated against.
His rights are more important than their feelings. I'm gay and support the baker
Are the rights of the luncheonette owners who refused to serve blacks more important than the feelings of the blacks who were refused service?
If you were educated in the United States and born after 1980, it is no surprise that you were never taught anything about how public accommodation laws came into being. However, it is a bit disheartening that you don't seem to think all categories of Americans should be treated equal.
@@schuylkillmike8048
you're a dumb fuck who actually needs to read the cases and decisions about this baker
The guy will serve anyone, gay, straight, trans, black, white, asian at his bakery BUT when it comes to the art on the cake he will not craft art which disagrees with his religious beliefs.
This is not at all a denial of service case, if you read the case notes, because he never said he wouldn't serve certain people, just that he will not create art with certain messages; because of his religious beliefs he won't even make Halloween Themed Cakes. And that should be the right of any artist.
@QTee It is the closest comparison in laws protecting people from discrimination for immutable traits.
@O K No one is using blacks as a stepping stone, my overly-sensitive friend. It a comparison of minority groups with immutable traits guaranteed equal service under the law. If you don't want blacks refused service because of their immutable traits, then you can't justify discrimination against another minority group for their immutable traits.
@@johnnybravo5962 Clearly you are not as familiar with the SCOTUS case as you think. I suggest you actually read the SCOTUS hearing transcript and ruling.
The Baker refused to sell the gay couple the same product/services that he sold to non-gays.
That's like telling a black couple they can't have lunch at the counter, but can pick up some chewing gum through the take-out window.
The baker sold wedding cakes to everyone EXCEPT gay couples.
The baker now has a better understanding of the Colorado laws that his business must follow, and he no longer makes wedding cakes for anyone.
I live in Texas, and when I get married I'll have my wedding cake designed at his store...
I'm black
Straight
Christian values
He didn't discriminate against them he tried to accommodate them in the best way he could for the service he provides. He offered them a straight cake, instead of a gay cake 😂. Thanks for letting me know where to get my cake made.
Hope the best for your marriage dude :)
I hate straights 🤢 wow it's just my OpInIOn dont get TriGGERED anyone
Elf Elfington ok but did anyone ask??
YES! Same but white
Good for you brother. You get to get married and help a fellow Christian brother out. God is going to be very proud of you both.
As a private business owner he has the right to refuse service for whatever reason. I don't understand why people don't get that and try to force their views on other people. I am not religious but I respect his right to run his shop guided by his faith. I find it horrendous that the gay couple wanted their choice respected but they had no respect for his religious rights. It is too bad that he had to decide to stop making wedding cakes because of this case. I am sure that it did cost him a lot in lost income.
A man's honor is seen in following his beliefs. The baker is truly an honorable man
Evangelist Gabriel Chishamba I felt so bad for him that he had to go through that
And if I had a "religious belief" that Blacks are second class citizens?
Jesse James that doesn’t fucking exist dude..
Friendly Oats On the basis of it being ingrained into people and not changeable, it is comparable.
Friendly Oats Also, autism is a behavior by your definition. Schizophrenia is a behavior by your definition. Interracial marriage is a behavior by your definition. Wanna deny an interracial straight couple service?
That awkward moment when the LGBTQ boycott his business but later realize he wasn't going to serve them anyway 😂😂😂
Rage He would serve them he just won’t make a Cake for gay marriage
The awkward moment when your stupidity was put on display, for all to see, yet you are too stupid to notice.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂Oooooh
andyiswonderful that awkward moment when you have no idea what the fuck you’re talking about
Lol
I am glad the baker won this case. You cannot force someone to make something that goes against there beliefs. I am deeply religious too and I would not want to be forced to make something I didn't want to.
3:07 This should not be a “war”. People should be able to act free from intervention, so long as they are not harming anyone else. Not to mention, the couple could have gone somewhere else for a cake, instead of starting a witch-hunt and putting the baker’s safety in danger. The death threats are extremely unfortunate considering the baker seemed respectful, and his refusal was more about sincerely held individual faith and beliefs, rather than discrimination against the couple.
8:09 Similarly, I think the ruling of the case can be seen as a protection of individual freedom rather than an opposition to equality.
Breva Viva changing the (insert identity here) baker and (insert identity here) customer does not change this argument at all.
The problem that many people seem to have in understanding this argument is in distinguishing what they believe is morally just and what the government can actually have prescedence over.
This is less of a freedom of religion argument and more of a freedom of association one. This is understood once you see that the government should NEVER be allowed to force a private business "at gun point" (which is what would have occured if the supreme court had ruled in favor of the homosexual couple) to sell there products or services to anyone regardless of race, identity, sexuality, etc. This is due to the fact that a private sell must have both the consent of the one offering the product as well as the one purchasing.
Personally, I agree that it is morally wrong to discriminate which is why I would never purchase products from someone who does. Luckily, I have this right due to the most durable and just document presented in any society, THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
I do like your passion for the truth though! Sadly, there seems to be a lack there of lately :)
Breva Viva oooo I like that thought. And pertaining to this argument, its a good way to get people to (hopefully) break from a narrow point of view to see a bigger picture here.
Breva Viva
The Baker isn't discriminating general service based on personal attributes - it is different - it is a specially made product being requested (& in this case DEMANDED).
For Gay Bakers, of course the same rule should apply.
It is EXACTLY the same & as wrong as FORCING a Vegan Artist to make a Sculpture especially to celebrate the Meat Industry? I am becoming Vegan & wouldn't want that. I don't think you would want to be forced to support something your against either (unless you freely signed a Contract as a paid employee, not a customer).
It's exactly the same as the gay wedding couple forcing their values on others: buy a generic cake that he already made and use that to celebrate your party. The baker had took no issue with that.
IMO, it is unethical to FORCE others to support my philosophy or ideology by FORCING them to put their artistic work into it.
That's why I'm on the Left but don't support the Left: they often want double standards & to be given special treatment, and are willing to treat others baldy to do it. And they want to Force themselves onto others all the time. That is different from standing up for oneself, where others are forcing themselves upon me.
The Mushy Brain Mushy brain indeed
Breva Viva No they shouldn’t be allowed to deny service based upon unproven beliefs.
The baker should sue for lost revenue.
johnny cake no he won't. He's a Christian. Unlike those guys, he has a forgiving heart.
Highly doubt that he looks like a guy that would forgive and forget
He can't do that lmao. The couple did nothing wrong.
Robron Suggle he can 100% sue the state.
Robron Suggle Yep I used to support gay rights but when people act this way and become demanding they lose my support. How evil must you be to try and destroy this man like this?
I watched that video and then went into the comment section to see all the bull shit people would post about how that guy is a bigot or whatever, but I'm pleasantly surprised to have seen so many positive responses in support of the baker
This is not the only baker this has happened to. His freedom of speech and religion was not respected. It’s not that he wouldn’t let them buy anything in his shop. He decorates wedding cakes according to his beliefs. I’d bet he wouldn’t decorate a wedding cake for a satanist. Is that also discrimination? When do religious rights become equal to all other rights?
Someone did commission him to make a cake for Satan with an upsidedown-cross on it. I think this was merely out of spite of him being a Christian baker and standing firm by his beliefs.
I'm Christian and I 100% support that baker!
@Twisty The Clown how about you take a second and look up who Dave Mustaine is buddy.
@Twisty The Clown Google m8
WWJD
Dave Mustaine So you support him just because you are a Christian. You do know that Christians aren’t as special and wonderful as they seem to think they are right? Everybody is equal and everybody should have to be treated equally by law when in a business open to the public. You can’t tell gay people that they can have anything in the shop they want except for this product this product and this product because that is offering them a lesser service and is discrimination. Whether the discrimination is based on your religious beliefs or not is besides the point. If it’s in the shop/on the menu then it should be sold to all regardless of faith, sexuality or skin colour. Obviously there are some exceptions, ie, messages of degradation and hate towards any person or group of people should not have to be conveyed etc.
@@mylifepostpain3705 if the baker was muslim you would side with him
Thanks for ruining this guy's life and business
Don't worry, he's fine.
@Lily Pebbs and whose lives have they "ruined"?
This faux "Christian" baker won his "case" and his business and life are just fine.
@@theQuestion626 the guy had to stop making wedding cakes he lost 40% of his business because of those guys. When those guys came in asking for a wedding cake Gary marriage hadn't even been passed yet.
So yes his life was ruined. There are plenty of businesses who had to close because they're Christians.
God forbid somebody shuts down a Muslim. Or how about an atheist who doesn't want a bake a cake that says God is real and you need him.
I'm sure you can see my point. As long as you're not a Christian or a Jew every other religion is fine.
Why because most people in the states one or erase every ounce of judeo Christian values that were actually the foundation of this country.
But guess what you can jail us you can close our you can kill us but I promise you. But there is one thing that non-believers cannot take away our faith.
And whether people want to admit it or not we will stand before God one day and we will have to give an account of Our Lives.
And if God isn't real and Jesus isn't God then I have nothing to lose. But if all those who say that this is not true and and what I just said is true well good luck
@@meggrotte4760 evidence?
meg grotte PREACH !!!👏🙏
You started crying in your car... heres some advice: grow up!!
Seriously this couple is the worst, "This guy didnt do what I want, so let's ruin his life."
Seriously what jerks. Peace ✌🏻
The baker was right to stand up for his faith
If GAYS aren't going to respect someone's religion then why should we respect them.
Edit: I have homosexual friends, but they are very respectful and they would never go into a bakery, knowing the man was religion and force him to bake a cake.
I wouldn't respect them regardless.
Oh that's ok I don't judge unlike gays
It'sMeHere Yo The use of religion to kill LGBT+ people is why we generally don't blindly respect religious beliefs. It is dangerous to let people going about hating us because one day I could be beaten on the street because I choose to wear my rainbow shirt on the wrong day. Your " beliefs " hurt people my refusal to respect religion blindly hurts no one.
Well if you're walking on a public street that is a different story if you're wearing that on my property then that's a different story
It'sMeHere Yo So you are openly stating you would abuse someone for wearing a pride shirt provided they are on your property?
Oh and don't try " it's my property and legally I can "
If you beat up a 13 year old trying to get their basketball that accidentally rolled on your lawn
If you abused a client you invited to your home
If you shot your neighbor's dog for going on your lawn
You know people would get furious with you. You are a bad person honestly
Regardless of your opinion, this man stood by his beliefs, even in the face of financial loss and death threats. I think that is extremely admirable.
A die-hard Nazi would also stand for his beliefs.
andyiswonderful No they would not as evidenced by the suicides of Nazi leaders and the fleeing of Nazis to places like Argentina after WW2. Those die hard Nazis certainly didn’t stand up for their beliefs once they were out of power.
@@MaxBadstibner rubbish. They absolutely were standing up for their beliefs to the bitter end.
andyiswonderful I disagree but nonetheless I wouldn’t compare a Christian baker refusing service even remotely equivalent to the attempted genocide of the Jews.
iIs religion guided in Hate,its cowardice and shameful.
Proud of this guy who stood up for his belief !!!!
Charlie is awesome ! He did the right thing by not making the cake .
gay propaganda is wack
Yes he did
No he didn’t. Homophobia is so pathetic.
@@faye3861 making someone go against there religious beliefs because you want stuff to go your way dosnt work lol the lgbtq community wants freedom so bad but dosnt respect anyone else's freedom
ssizzles Maybe because religion isn’t fact. LGBT is fact.
Government should stay out of private businesses, period.
yeah so i can finally buy drugs from the corner shop without the government knowing
@@torb1trick415 you sound like a fuckwit
@Arlindo Melo
Well when private business stops fucking over people for bullshit reasons maybe it will.
theQuestion626 commie
@Tyler Bone bootlicker.
These guys are such hypocrites they want the baker to accept them, but they don’t accept the bakers religious beliefs. This world is getting really sad.
Religion is a choise being gay is not but its hard to debate because ether side wins
@@Nightcre Buying a cake is a choice,
@@Nightcre they could have gone to another vake store
Angeleyez cosmetics you do realize the couple THEMSELVES could be devoutly Christian? In which case the baker and the couple would share the same religious beliefs. I can tell you, the majority of homosexuals are not atheists.
Additionally, you could argue this back and forth all day. “They want the baker to accept them but they don’t accept the baker’s beliefs”. People in opposition of that could just say “the baker wants them to accept his beliefs, yet he won’t accept them”. You make a weak case for perpetuating discrimination.
Almost as shallow an argument as those advising them to just “go to another bakery”. Well, since refusing certain services to them is ok for this bakery, what if every store was run by someone who shared this man’s beliefs? (you’d find some in the south). Then they’d have no where to go. Why rely on people to individually chose whether their business implements discriminatory policies or not?
If your views impede the services people should otherwise be entitled to, perhaps business practices actually should be a bit more regulated. Dumb business move on his part, anyway. The practice of selling commodities should transcend all bias and focus solely on products and profit.
I mean, where do you draw the line? The baker stated he’d sell them anything but a cake, since cake was a symbol of their marriage, but what if the couple asserted they would instead purchase a mound of brownies and substitute their wedding cake for that. Would he still have sold them to the couple? Had they come back to that place to have a nice dessert on their honeymoon, and clearly made the baker aware of the occasion, would they still have been served then?
Sure, I’m against murder, but say I owned a hardware store and an individual walked in aiming to purchase some of my most expensive gardening tools, doing so respectfully and fairly, but he happened to be a murderer, I would sell them to him anyway, not allowing my personal bias to hinder my sale of goods and the fulfillment of his needs. Now of course, if he intended to use these tools maliciously I would be personally obliged not to sell them to him, since the consequences of doing so would be the injury or death of another person, but in the context of this video, no one was going to potentially suffer as a result of selling the couple a cake.
So, despite being against murder, just as I would sell the gardening tools to a person who had once killed and now wishes to tend to his garden, what is right for a business is objectiveness and if a couple walks in wishing to buy a cake, unless they were planning to light candles atop the frosting and burn down a church with it, I believe in selling it to them regardless of personal bias since morality is arbitrary and subjective and should not play a part in running a business.
It is called the law, stupid.
I wanna go across the country to buy a cake from him
Common sense would side with the baker on this
Why can’t we agree to disagree!? I don’t believe in your lifestyle and you don’t believe in my faith...you don’t want me to push my faith/beliefs on you, and I don’t want you to push your beliefs on me. God please bless this man and his business! I stand with him! 🙌🏾🙏🏾
@Young Nala what does that have to do with her ancestors?? She choses to believe in an entity that is beyond her humanity and you here attacked her because her "religion" ?? People can't have the choice of belief anymore right?!
See people like you are the problem, you're never satisfied about bringing down other people who have different opinions about a situation but when it vomes to Christianity it's all about how it facilitated slavery and now also hate towards the lgbt people, y'all forgot that other religions were also involved deeply. But I won't get into an argument because y'all don't want to see the truth of what truly history was but rather content yourselves with the only negative aspects and not trying to dig deep to seek the truth.
Well a day will come and you will all understand, I simply pray and hope it won't be too late when it happens!!
I hope you get denied service in a cafe for being black. Then you can understand what this is really about. But, I doubt you ever will because you have been hypnotized with religion.
@@ak14serko44 uh, calm down and try to think for a moment. Her ancestors were oppressed; that is why it is relevant. She is ignoring her own personal history and committing oppression herself.
Of course she has the right to her belief. No one has denied that. AND, by the same token, others have the right to criticize her for her belief. See how that works?
AK14 Serko thank you well said!
andyiswonderful well guess what? That happens to still go on today. You can’t compare my skin color to your sexual PREFERENCE/CHOICE. What your ppl did to my ppl are still going on. Should I hate you for that? Some of the LGBT community are racist, should I hate them for that? No because I understand that the ppl who used the Bible and “religion” to do evil things where not Christians. Idc what they said they were, if you aren’t showing love and mercy then you aren’t a Christian. Now you in fact maybe racist since you left that kind of comment lol but it’s ok I’ll pray for you and I love you! Just because I don’t agree with your lifestyle it doesn’t mean I hate you or any gay person❤️
Furious? They purposely went to multiple bakers until they would find one that would deny the request. Professional victims, I’m glad they lost.
This thing was staged by the LGBTQ organization. The are pushing!
I love reading all the lies and homophobia.
You know you can not like something and still tolerate it.
@Fat fuck who wants 50,000 subs without videos No good reason? They were asking this guy to bake them a wedding cake. One of the centerpieces of what will be one of the biggest days of their lives.
See that's what I think people like you don't understand. You lack the ability to put yourself in their shoes. They wanted the same treatment any heterosexual couple have received. They didn't get it.
It's using religion to discriminate. Plain and simple. Not right in my eyes, but he's legally allowed to do it.
@Fat fuck who wants 50,000 subs without videos Plus all he had to do was say no I didn't like the way they were acting. He has the right to refuse service. But he had to make it about them being gay. Why? To prove a point?
@@yojeffrow5505 are you dumb why cant people like you understand that the man had the right to not make a wedding cake for them.A man should never be force to turn his head away from his religious principals just to not hurt peoples feelings and plus wouldn't it be also religious discrimination because they were trying to get him to change his beliefs by trying to get him to make them a wedding cake
Since when is "freedom" to force someone to do something he doesn´t want?
That couple sounds self entitled. You do what you want, you cannot force someone to do things your way. They are just forcing their beliefs on him. He never asked to not get married, he never refused them a cake. He just doesn't want to design something that is against his religious beliefs.
Jack didnt boycott a gay wedding. He just didnt make their cake becuase of his beliefs. The gay couple could have gone somewhere else.
They wouldn't go to a Muslim bakery. Because they wouldn't have been as polite to them