3 Ways Distributors Rip Off Filmmakers - Jeff Deverett
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- čas přidán 15. 06. 2024
- Jeff Deverett is a producer, director, writer, and actor known for Full Out 2: You Got This! (2020), ism (2019), The Samuel Project (2018), Kiss & Cry (2017), Full Out (2015), King of the Camp (2008) and My Brother's Keeper (2004). Jeff's successful film and TV career began with distribution with New World Entertainment, Astral Communications, Anchor Bay Entertainment and his own company, Deverett Media Group. In this Film Courage video interview he talks about how to make a profitable movie and briefly touches on AFM [American Film Market], MIPCOM and MIPTV media markets.
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#film #filmmaking #filmmaker
Indie filmmakers need to unite, build our own streaming service, and create our own success. More and more tons of people are asking for movies with good stories that are not a 100 million dollar or more budget. Sure I love the Avengers movies, but I also love it when a movie, with nobody I have ever heard of, from cast to crew, surprises the heck out of me.
I'm definitely down with that, let's connect.
Amazon could do this like they have done for Indy Authors- open up part of Prime to independent film makers.
Check out The Indie Film Community!
isn't MUBI kind of like that?
An independent film union would be amazing. Build it and they will come.
I don’t think another streaming platform would be worth the time and effort. People don’t want another subscription fee, and in order to attract advertisers for AVOD the eye balls already have to be there
I'm not in the film world, but if I were, I would hire this guy. His candor and honesty is lovely to see.
10:00 he over spends and gets "out lawyered." DIY or bust.
Jeff has concepts down that take most filmmakers a lifetime if they ever figure them out. The fact that he’s sharing those concepts is shocking in an industry based on opaqueness.
Factsssssss. So many gems.
Unfortunately I’ve had the same experience on my first movie which was distributed worldwide. It’s a nightmare. These companies are actually gangsters but within the law. It’s mental. The film industry needs to really start getting rid of these sharks. They kill careers and the spirit of the film maker. Bastards
this video is the 'do not pass beyond this point' signpost for aspiring artists.
That’s exactly how I feel! It’s the world’s loss…
@@artistjim114 what do he mean by this comment? Do not pass beyond point, because?
@@joshuagalvez9678 He is talking about a sign that would be on a fence or gate with REALLY important information on it that could save your life. Because there might be something dangerous beyond the sign like a guard dog that could bite you or a cliff you could fall over or a hole you could fall into.
I'm Australian and I won't be approaching any distribution companies here. I'd love it if Jeff gave us a list of good companies he has dealt with over the years, so we're put on the right path
There is clearly a gap in the market for an ethical distribution company that is transparent about their deals with independent film makers. Bernie Madoff got 150 years for his fraud but it looks as though these distribution companies are getting away with it.
@@catinthehat906 it's a stinking cesspool of lying, avaricious, fragile egos waiting to take your shirt and strip the skin from your back.
Its real bad
I would think you could Google which company distributed a movie 🎬.
@@catinthehat906 eventually, a class action will be filed and will challenge the entirety of the legal ease all of these companies have been modeling after for more than 50 years. AFM is the absolute worse place to sell your indie film, it's basically where all of these scammers lurk. The pandemic changed all of that, but the market will be back soon with sales reps ready to pounce on your creative blood, sweat and tears for nothing, if they can, but certainly for far less than you spent making the film.
This interviewing is giving me an idea for a thriller/murder mystery film where hundreds of film distributors end up bludgeoned to death at a major film festival.
😂😂😂😂
A new legal protection watchdog needs to come into place, where all Indies could pay a percentage into a fund that would aid them when entering into a new contract with a distributor. Future broadcasters must also be absolutely transparent with the broadcast deal numbers, upon the original filmmakers request. Maybe something to work toward.
the problem is most actual distributors like SONY and Warner Home Video, rely on the middle men "sales reps" because the sales reps are the go between, the smoke screen between the actual head of the sales river, and you. The actual distributor never wants to hear from the licensor (you, the filmmaker intellectual property owner) That's where "sales reps" come in, they are the barrier between you, the filmmaker and the actual distributor who makes all the real sales and these days, it's all steaming with some cable, Vod, svod, airline, and hospital (closed systems) sales to boot.
My rule for distributors: If their lips are moving, they are lying.
I have experienced many of these horror stories. Honest and fair distributors are rare.
Omg This if such great information. Jeff is an incredible guest. How can independent filmmakers be defended against predatory distributors. Can we have a whole episode on just that?
L.O.T.R made over $3 Billion at the box office and about that or more in DVD sales, yet New Line claimed it actually "Lost" money. Very discouraging to hear Jeff give the lowdown on distributors' shady practices, but thanks for the content all the same! :)
New Line may claim that, but New Line may have also been creating fake companies and departments that were really paying New Line through the fake company names.
So if the director or anybody has a contract to take a share of the profits, New LIne has all this money coming in but since none of it says coming in to New Line, then New Line tells all the people waiting on a share of the profits that there is no profit.
Peter Jackson successfully sued New Line for 'under payment'.
I think the segments with Jeff are some of the best of this channel. His advice is right on. Being a good business person means negotiating hard on the elements in the contract and being very savvy. Having better lawyers is of paramount importance. I'm not in the industry (yet) but I've learned some very hard lessons as a businessman. There are some very very bad people out there who have no problem stealing, telling boldfaced lies, and breaking contracts. It's one of the reasons I am so exhausted after a lifetime of battles. If you are noble and live your life in a virtuous way you will have that as a gem later on in life. To me that gem is priceless.
Half way through and fascinating. No wonder all the shit movies are at the top
its encouraging to know that there are people like jeff in the industry. And at the same time it seems like such a huge hurdle to overcome
Indie film makers don't have money to defend themselves. And they focused their entire life on learning how to make a film, not how to understand the film industry. So they can be taken advantage of very easily. No average film maker would ever know this was going on at all. Very interesting video. Thanks! Depressing!
Yep, spot on....I've had a couple offers where the "distributor" was charging upfront marketing expenses for them to travel to Cannes and every film market so they can shop a slate of various filmmaker's movies.
i always found it unsettling why this tradeshow is staged on the luxurious french riviera. lol. bring your amex.
Indie film makers should stick the middle finger to these upfront fees, they should pay their own fees.
@@HDsharp agreed and I most definitely did. They prey on filmmakers who seem new to the game and they can smell the desperation a mile away.
This series is the best insight into distribution - and just the film business in general - that I have ever found on CZcams. Jeff Deverett is nothing short of excellent.
We agree, Jeff offers so many insights into the business of filmmaking. This full interview (when complete) is a masterclass. All together it is 3+ hours so we still have a little ways to go to finish it. Great to see you finding value here. Cheers!
Thank you yet again for such great content, Film Courage!
This guy NEEDS to write a bible about this stuff.
kinda makes you wonder why any indie should even bother. We can't all hire Jeff....and even he gets screwed
Just do your work.
There are levels of getting screwed. The point is they will take as much advantage as possible. They will always have leverage, but some protections as Jeff spoken are important. Related to costs, duration of contract, minimum guaranteed, performance guaranteed, etc. etc.
I’ve had similar experiences with Gunpowder and Sky who sold one of my films to Fubo TV and didn’t tell me and I saw my doc on a pop ad 😂 and also had this problem with another company called the Orchard now known as 1091 films not sharing the details of a Hulu deal our film was a part of and then being sketchy about terms of payment etc... these distributors get away with often best is to make a direct licensing deal with major broadcaster yourself and get your payment up front directly into ur account on ur terms...
The project that I was trying to raise money on had a studio exec , retired , who worked for one of the big studios helping me . He illustrated all mentioned and said best way was to get a different distributor for each territory. Never raised the money so can't add anymore to that but heard similar horrors from other producers who had worked on, in some cases, very successful films. A friend who wrote music for TV and a couple of features said he was only ripped a couple of times over a 30 year career, maybe he had good music publishers who handled royalties/PRS etc.
What's your reaction to the distribution stories that Jeff shares in this video?
What Mr. Deverett is talking about is the real nitty gritty of Show Business. This is the finer points of the business. There is a lot of talk about the art of film making and the human resource part of it as well, but in this day and age, the business aspect of it is becoming more fractured and more labyrinth in the understanding of it. It is so easy to say to oneself "I am going to make a film and people are going to watch it and we are going to make money on it, so we can make more movies." There is so much to unpack in that statement in terms of the business side of film making, and Mr. Deverett and his insider knowledge and his candour on the subject is a great help to the uninitiated.
Pretty much all and more that Jeff talks about in his interviews.
1. Pay as much attention to the deal signed with the Distributors, (after a good lawyer has scanned it with a legal microscope) as you would to the script, screenplay and finished film.
2. Factor in the clause to get a sign off if expenses are above an agreed amount.
3. Insist on being c/c to all email correspondences with protentional and finalised exhibitors. Even if they shun you midway or on important deals, there is a trail to investigate.
4. If distributors exclude you from their mapping domain, find someone who plays fair.
5. Don't trust the distributors simply because they 'loved your film', 'agreed to distribute', and asked you to 'leave the business development' to them!
Getting back into the business and this eye opener is vital to knowing what to expect. Thanks
As Trump might say (and most everyone knows themselves) the system is rigged. You take something like 'Maps' and that's all done in ways, in 'jerrymanders' in all kinds of stilted and set-up levels that all work together to rig, pull, tilt and skim all kinds of money to distributors, those who made it, game it, set up the boards.
There is no way the average person can take 200 hours figuring out every single rig and pulley, every 'accident-on-purpose' corner, everywhere it can be linked/unlinked, where every legal loophole, nomenclature, where every blind alley goes.
Like a rigged election, nobody could 'prove it' either, maybe you'd catch the odd 'mapping error' but what are you going to do, spend a decade of your life sifting through every one and it will be too late to matter after you do.
He's right too, that's if you even find out. One of the most common and most successful scams on the planet is simply 'not reporting' and then they simply always keep it.
You don't know there was a thing you were supposed to get so you will never even know to claim a thing you never heard about.
Maybe the saddest part and we all know its true: In the end this had nothing to do with distributing films or pineapples - it was some series of laws some clever lawyers discovered they could game. The Law Game they'd mastered was 'their business' and the distribution of films was simply their resources, that's the stuff they harvest but its for The Legal Game, their real business.
Sad.
Our lives have become so very unChristian that it's not even an embarrassment anymore but I'd say those doing this are, if anything, entirely proud and consider themselves perfectly righteous for doing it.
I would want to know who are the honest distributors.
Him losing his fight against the distributors is actually a victory because now he opened the eyes of thousands movie makers.
IMO - this is still one of the most important videos on this channel...every filmmaker needs to watch this and understand what goes on under the hood of the sales/distribution engine and what resources they can lean on to try and cut good deals, even if that means finding a lawyer or a rep. 1) There's a myth that minimum guarantees are rare...and it's not true. A reputable distributor will offer you some sort of minimum guarantee, even if you have no name actors in your film. If they aren't offering you this, look elsewhere. 2) Get the language in there that Jeff suggests that would allow you to skirt package deals and over-expenses...don't give your movie away for nothing.
What a great interview... Thanks for the insights and candor to share Jeff's experiences... The way he talks about collateralization makes me also remember about CDO's of the house market. Even Jeff says that are not related, they share a common MO: If you are the one that controll the process, you can be very creative about the way you build the "packages"... You deal the cards and the house allways win in the long term
Awesome interview. I’ve been through this as well and lost tens of thousands
Great video.. I wish I knew this before.. I made four movies now.. I'm slowly learning as I go through all this
I’ve read a number of distributor’s term sheets and contracts, and what’s he’s saying about market fees and expense caps is absolutely true. My favorite was when I was reading contracts in 2020 that had exorbitant market fees even though markets were virtual at least thru mid 2022.
My advice, negotiate as low a contract term as possible (3-5 yrs), as low expense cap as possible (10k range), and add a performance clause in. Oh and figure out who they use for marketing assets (trailer/poster) and go to them directly if you don’t already have some up to snuff.
God damn I could listen to this guy all day and I know nothing about film biz.
He is willing to spend his time to help people, giving more than what is asked of him every time
8:07 This EXACT thing happened to me! I had a film with a distributor and they kept showing "$0" of sales even though it was on TV and it was top ten on Amazon and iTunes for a bit. I confronted them, especially since I knew at least 50 people who bought it and they said, "Oh, it's a glitch in our system... we'll get that fixed." They never did, of course. and pocketed all of those sales.
WOW, fantastic insights! Thank you so so much FC and Jeff for this segment.
I wonder what's stopping Indie filmmakers to create their own association... there must've been some attempts...
It's really sad to see how really talented artists, creators, who usually struggle, have to face additional hurdles with distribution. They always will be outmatched and muscled out by a much powerful force. Something has to be done here. The existing distribution methods are vastly outdated.
Great content! It’s wild what goes on behind the scenes. I hope you keep putting out more vids like this.
EXCELLENT heartbreaking shocking info. THANK YOU, JEFF. You're a hero.
Why am I trying to break into this industry?
(looks around at current job)
Oh, right.
My takeaway is avoid distributors and handle it yourself, or use crowdfunding. If your film has an interest a crowdfunding platform like KickStarter could be used to both fund the film and get it distributed so you avoid the hollywood vampires.
Jeff is my favorite. A wealth 🤑 of knowledge and he really seems to be looking out for filmmakers.... 👍
he spilled some major T.
oh my my.... This guy is just my champ right now....God bless Jeff
Learned a lot from this clip and really enjoyed the video. Have a good one.
This was gold! Thank you for sharing, seriously thank you!
Thanks for watching!
Wow I am so grateful to Jeff and Film Courage for sharing this key information.❤
God this is heartbreaking.
this what film needs right now, would be great to see what he speaks of come to life and take film in the right direction
Wow. What a great interview. I’m wondering how most indie film makers can level the playing field, especially if they can’t hire someone like Jeff to be in their corner to help navigate the process. What a jungle.
I worked in marketing for years and its common for marketing agencies to take the client out for dinners and then overbill the client to factor in the dinners. So much money is wasted on ineffective nonsence and billed to client even dumb errors made by the agency. I see the film world works the same way.
wow great video Jeff always drops a lot of knowledge .It's incredible the amount of ways an indie filmmaker can get taken advantage of .I guess there's not a lot you can do unless you have a great deal of money ,if you can get someone who know's how to negotiate these to do it on your behalf is probably the best way to go or self distribution it's very tough though . Much food for thought great video as always
That was so fascinating, interesting and frightening. Kudos to Jeff for sharing
If this is the case, why are filmmakers not EXPOSING and putting on blast these predatory distributors? It's like someone being sexually assaulted by someone else that they know is assaulting others and WILL assault others but remains silent.
Great interview
Thank you so much for the hard work
I want detailsss, love to hear from a no Fs giving person. Love ur channel, starting film school in a month!:
Jeff’s the best, cuss the rest haha another much needed nugget of wisdom, thank you both!
Wow, like Jeff said, "He just scratched the surface." Yikes.
Wow... This is eye-opening stuff. Thank you both so much for this information! You're heroes to my eyes!
on the surface it's weinsteinian, scratch the surface and it becomes epsteinian.
Love this guy, really we need strong people to push for ethical and professional conduct with transparency.
I want to give this guy money. Why? I don't know. But he seems like a good guy.
Great video as always. Insightful. A side question, which backdrop did you use for this video? I always see it and wonder hahaha. I really like the look and would like to buy one for myself
Thanks Sam! Here is the affiliate link to the one we purchased - amzn.to/3qtrA9X
I’ve made two features in the past. Excited about making another one, but concerned about distribution. There’s so much I don’t know about the “business” side of the film business.
Incredible insight! Thanks a lot! I can relate to most of those points as it happened to me in the past.
This guy is the 🐐 and should spearhead the movement!
This is one reason i caution aspiring filmmakers (particularly those planning to waste years and tens of thousands on pretentious film schools). It's a very dirty and predatory industry which loves to fūck naive creatives with stars in their eyes. If you want to be a filmmaker, just film stuff that interests you and put it online. Put good content out long enough and you'll build an audience who may even help finance projects. -Source: full-time producer and DoP of 2 feature films, some documentaries and many other projects. Not gonna give away my identity in this account lol
Do not give up on your crusade Jeff. We need that new system of protection for up and coming filmmaker and that we need people like Jeff who gives a shit about quality of film.
You're awesome, Jeff.
Thanks for providing this insight! I would pay Jeff for a peek at his boiler plate indie distribution contract.
Very insightful.
Thank you Jeff!!!!
Great content! Thanks
Thanks, Jeff!
Great. Thanks.
Unbelievable, life-saving info for filmmakers!
I was already too terrified to proceed.
@16:10 "they call it Shrinkage" Thats funny because my gf says that to me, but I'm not in the film industry
THANK YOU JEFF!
I wish we could get the names of those bad companies.
High Octane Entertainment is one of them. Avoid them!
Right? There should be a site with all their names for the filmmakers!
@@buraktatar I agree!!! It’s great to know that this is happening, but it’d be better to know who is doing it.
@@buraktatar Yelp? I think people should be posting their experiences somewhere. If they have it for retailers, they should have it for distributors too!
@@joshm569 Good Idea, Josh! Absolutely.
So yeah, when you arrive in Hollywood they say "if you can make money as anything else you should." Now that I have heard from this video about some of the shenanigans that occur, I understand why people say that.
Jeff is great man.
😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮 OMG! This is probably one of the SCARIEST videos I've seen here on CZcams!!
Here is one that is less scary and also encouraging - czcams.com/video/HuYhpgIAH_Q/video.html
He is right, but they mostly make money by packaging a slate of 10 to 20 indie films that they take to these film markets as a bundle. They then sell them to various foreign markets at low prices (for example, each film might be sold for 10-15k/territory in western Europe or 80k for the entire continent, 30k for Asia, and another 50k for the US market). But they save their bigger budgets 500k and up (with names) for serious market price negotiations.
what was the company he’s referring too?
Amazing, thank you. 💀🔥
Sneak a few edits into their boiler plate.
1. (what ever he said first.)
2. All mapping errors that cause a perceivable loss of money to the producer/ IP owner will be refunded to the amount lost.
3. Arbitration for any mapping errors will be paid for by the distributors.
This man is really having me speechless
Educate me!
what's a Boiler Plate??
thanks.
Another informative video!
Also being in Jeff's world as producer/director, I can say YES, EVERYTHING HE SAYS REFLECTS MY EXPERIENCE. The industry is brutal, and most distributors are criminals it costs too much to proseciute. A small percentage play fair.
If this is the case, why are filmmakers not EXPOSING and putting on blast these predatory distributors? It's like someone being sexually assaulted by someone else that they know is assaulting others and WILL assault others but remains silent.
Any way you could share the producer contract for distribution? In favor of the small business guys! ;)
How normal is it for a distribution company to a need or ask for your entire Premiere Pro editing session for your film?
I'm a bit confused -- I was under the impression distribution companies actually distribute films. He's discussing scenarios where these companies go to film markets trying to get buyers to acquire or license other filmmaker's movies. This sounds like middle men sales agent types of companies not distribution companies. They're not distributing they're trying to sell your content. What am I missing here?
sounds more like merchandising aggregators. A real distribution company buys your script and doesn't take money off the back-end.
Most distributors are middle men. They get your film and then try sell it to people who can get it into the world market. They may directly represent the US market but the rest of the markets are sold to other distributors.
make a movie/doc of how filmmakers/creators are being taken advantage of!
This Is F@#$%! CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's time to name names!
Love this guy
These Rock!
only do deals with a lawyer at hand
Interesting!
Fascinating. Thank you, Sir, and FC. Basically, we filmmakers unfortunately fund these scumbags high lifestyles. Shameful. This is why movies as The Godfather are popular. You do these guys wrong. You pay.
You are doing God's work, Jeff
"Gods" work? a bit much?
I'm selling all of my equipment, truck and all! I'm done getting screwed! Not happening again!
come back dinner's ready.
Give it one more try...We got your back
now you see power of youtbe like service...how its boon for indie filmmakers. but there sud be an standalone platform for distribution and funding for indie filmmakers. many great stories dies in lack of support. my heart cries when my baby script/movie rest in harddisk, in spite it cud have won oscar. money matters, has taken everything badly under its wings. if indie platform can revolutionize in forming the platform which can fund you like banks does, but without interests or low interests and in return we can charity whatever money/ camera, gadets we like so that it moves to another indie film maker in need. imagine the great movies coming out, to watch.
Wow
Makes me wonder why anyone would want enter the business world of film.
There seems to be no joyful part of it.
Next question, are the crestive film jobs any better?
The amount of corruption in these distributors is apalling.