7 Sound System Tuning Myths We Need To Drop
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- čas přidán 8. 07. 2024
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I hope we can all agree that there's too much voodoo in our industry, especially when it comes to sound system tuning.
Although I'm all for you having your own aural opinion, I think there's (at least) 7 myths we need to bust when it comes to system tuning. Some unnecessary "cruft" that needs to get fleshed out.
Today we'll cover:
- A system tuning rig is more affordable than you think
- How not to hose your low end
- Why sometimes I tune a system flat
- Why EQ is not the great equalizer
00:00 - Intro
01:39 - Myth #1 - System Tuning Gear Is Too Expensive
03:21 - Myth #2 - It Doesn't Really Matter Where You Put Your Subs
06:12 - Myth #3 - The Majority of the Work Happens In The Field
08:26 - Myth #4 - I Should Tune A Sound System Flat
09:37 - Myth #5 - Flat Sound Systems Sound Terrible
11:15 - Myth #6 - System Tuning Takes A Long Time
12:35 - Myth #7 - EQ Makes Every Rig Sound The Same
14:55 - Outro - Hudba
Another myth (or a common misconception, perhaps) is that acoustic problems in a room can be resolved electronically. Most people think that sound systems are everything they need to worry about and that the rooms plays little to no part in what's happening sound-wise. Great video, thanks
another great and informative video 🙏
all of the systems I have setup have been speakers on sticks, but it only ever takes me a short while to check my math, reference my analyzer, and walk around to confirm what should be happening. I used to feel like I may have been doing something wrong because my tuning process was so quick, this was encouraging.
I take issue with the myth about speakers sounding the same with EQ, although their interactions are definitely different I've always felt like I can more or less get the tonal qualities I wanted out of any system. That may come from my only working with lower end budget systems though, as I've never had a side by side opportunity to try and make a QSC play against a D&B.
I'm glad this was encouraging to you, Aaron.
To your issue with the EQ myth, I would say other factors like how the box handles transients, frequency response consistency at different drive levels, phase response differences, and coverage pattern differences all play into how a rig might differ from another, even at the same target curve.
I don't doubt that you're getting great results out of any system you work with. That's our job! To wrangle any rig we're given into the best it can be.
Hello Michael
In this video, you answered it. Not all venues need to be tuned flat for example outside events, I would bust the low end frequencies. I deal with a lot of buildings and churches that end up having a lot of low end on them and I find myself always tuning flat. This is why the last video you made about system tuning. I threw a comment about your low end kick drum and Bass guitar adjustments. Because I don’t do a lot of target traces on the transfer function software. Maybe on my next event. I will throw a target trace in there and see how it comes out. I will let you know. Happy new year take care.
Please do! I've been really happy with both indoor and outdoor events using Michael Lawrence's target curve.
as usual great Info..👏👏👏👍😉👍
Hey Michael, great video!!! Thanks. Could you please do a video regarding your System Optimization Checklist where u explain each step? That would be very helpful. Thanks
At the risk of sounding sales-ey, that's exactly what we're covering in my upcoming workshop that's next Friday August 11th. It's 50% now - www.producedbymkc.com/systemtuningworkshop
My biggest issue with most of the gigs I see as a visitor is mic placement and mic choice. I don’t say that the tonality of the mix is bad, but I often feel that getting the source right would be greatly beneficial to the results that are produced.
Also, (and I think this is more up your allay regarding the main topic of the channel) a mix that is to dynamically squeezed and at the same time to loud has no impact as opposed to a mix that moves with peaks that are probably lower then the loud mix without impact.
I’d gladly provide still to be made multitracks and pics with usual mic positions and thoughtful once that can make a huge difference. Let me know if you’re interested.
And again, great channel!
Thanks a ton! And yes, the loudness wars are raging in more places than just Top 40 : ) Engineers get a hold of Soundgrid server and L2 everything to death. Some specific examples you've seen would be helpful.
Hi Michael, thx for your videos. Question about the traces. What about measuring the transfer between output console and a measurement mic in the room. It can lead to a different result than follow a trace. What do mixers like the most, is a mix in the studio the reference for a PA... .
You're very welcome! Yes, you're absolutely right in that you can do a transfer function between the console mix and a mic in front of the PA. I see some engineers doing that, but most mixers I see are looking at SPL, a spectrogram, or an RTA. The RTA is used that situation for a "live" target curve.
I personally think a professional studio mix that you trust is the best thing to use as a reference, but I know some system engineers who just listen to pink noise or their own voice through a 58.
Man, that "Tuning shouldn't take longer than 30min" hit hard. I regularly have 1.5 Hours from arriving at Venue(without any PA or anything) to Start of the Show. PA Setup, Band Setup, "Tuning", Soundcheck and a little bit of Band practice. There is no Time to pull out Measurement Mics there.
Yea, that sounds like a super tight turnaround! Check out my other video on how to tune if you have no time:
czcams.com/video/MjDLIzIGu0k/video.html
I would love to learn more about the interesting sub array you mentioned. How to set that up and what you did to control it. I have four dual 18 subs, two amps to power them and would like to give that a try at a certain outdoor show I have. It’s a recurring show with ten to thirteen events on Thursdays. The audience area is a block long and half a block wide. Up to now, I have used them in the flat line configuration which sounds okay, but I would like to try something different to improve the coverage area.
I should also mention that I’m using a delay set of speakers&subs about 100’ out from the stage.
Here's a video that covers that sub setup in detail: czcams.com/video/ecOLyJpuqcE/video.html
Long story short, even though we can usually be more aggressive with how we shape our low frequencies, we want to do everything we can to have the coverage shape of our mains AND our subs match.
@@MichaelCurtisAudio I was actually referring to the four subs facing each other. That’s what I would like to do with my set of four 218 subs.
@@sound4uaudiovideorecording927 Got it! It's exactly the same setup as my inline gradient video, but you turn the front subs inward and measure from the acoustic center of that sub.
Hi! Really like your channel TONS of useful info
Still lot stuff to talk about PA systems, but I wonder about monitors and it's myths...
Is it appropriate to match them to a flat/target trace? Or should them just be ringed out top avoid feedback?
Any setup that helps reducing the stage volume, helping the phase of the PA? Floor vs Sidefills
Would love to read people's insights
Thank you very much! I try to have my monitors flat above 1kHz, then shape the LF below that to have a gentle rise, nothing crazy. Then after I've done everything else I can with mic selection, placement, wedge placement, etc., I'll use EQ to ring it out if I'm still having trouble.
Are you asking about reducing stage volume from the monitors themselves? Or the blowback from the PA?
Is it possible to download your "flat" reference curves from somewhere and implement into my Smaart?
I Will take your course!
Thanks, Mikael! Let me know if you have any questions about it.
@@MichaelCurtisAudio I’ve been wanting to learn this for a while. But didn’t know where to go. I’m a church tech in local churches in Sweden Stockholm. :).
@@mogglie Very cool. Thanks for serving your congregations well.
Great Video Mr. Curtis, thank you for sharing knowledge! Can you help me with one thing? I click on the link to audio toolkit and all i get is "access denied". What should i do?
Glad the video was helpful to you! Shoot me an email (which you can find on my website) and I will get you squared away.
where i can find system setup and optimization roadmap? And do you set up stage monitor by target trace?
Here's a link to the roadmap. I plan on making a future video with a template for it:
drive.google.com/file/d/1RfPA3swv6YYL-wShK23qxb6PK8cW2qfM/view?usp=sharing
And for stage monitors I usually run them fairly flat.
Quick question, can you do a cardiod sub setup with different sized subs? I’ve got 2 15inch subs and 2 18 inch subs Will it work?
Technically yes, but you would have to match levels between the 15" and 18" subs. You'll also get different wraparound paths due to the enclosures being different sizes. You also need to make sure they have matching phase responses.
hi Michael. about sonarworks i use it in my room and i have to say it works very well. what i wanted to know, i have monitors around $ 500. If I want to buy better monitors ($ 1000 for example) and redo the correction will I always get the same listening with sonarworks? the sense is if with sonarworks you can do without extremely expensive monitors
I'd say Sonarworks can raise any speaker up a "letter grade". So, if you have B- speakers, they can raise them to A-. I've used Sonarworks in my own studio with three different speaker sets over the past five years and have found that the calibration always helps, but the original signature sound of the speaker remains. Transients, imaging, and top end clarity always feels different from speaker to speaker.
Unless you've got a lot of extra cash around, a modest speaker upgrade isn't going to help you advance your career all that much.
@@MichaelCurtisAudio I supposed. however to me it gives the impression of A / B when I turn I turn off sonarworks. obviously I don't expect it from really cheap monitors, I'm talking about monitors with a good frequency response. so with a better monitor will sonarworks work better? maybe it will make fewer corrections?
@@tony8236 I'd say it ultimately comes down to the quality of your room and sound damping. I'd spend money there first before upgrading speakers.
Can you share this Target?
there are processors (venue 360 but also a cheap ultracurve behringer) that have the auto correction function. can they help us in some situations? maybe using a good mic like your dpa? in particular behringer gives the possibility of correction from 100hz upwards
I'd stay away from those autocorrection engines, even if you have a nice mic. They're only relying on a single channel measurement, not a transfer function. So it's unable to tell if the ripple in the frequency response is truly a correction needed for the speaker or a floor bounce.
@@MichaelCurtisAudio but even after the alignment has been fixed if we make it work? or look at what he combines as a point of view and edit if we don't like it?
@@tony8236 I still don't trust them : ) If I have a tool available (like SMAART or OSM) that shows me the exact data I need to make decisions on my own, then why rely on an auto-function that I have no idea how it works?
@@MichaelCurtisAudio understand. I had the chance to test the processor and compare it with smaart. the result looked good, with a flat line. then I am referring to very slight corrections on my system (hdl20), about 1/2 db on some frequency
@@tony8236 I'd be interested to give one a shot!
Unfortunately the formulae that works is an eye sore. I'm trying to imagine what to do with a 50m x 25m tent conference we have in December. Can you help me brainstorm? I can email you.
Voodoo myths busted 👍🏼
Thanks!
Cost
I'd be interested in your thoughts regarding pros/cons of tuning EQ applied within speaker DSPs vs within the console. If you have specific thoughts here it could be an interesting video topic especially when equipment is used in a variety of different scenarios.
Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge with all your great videos.
Great idea! To be clear, are you talking about tuning within an external DSP, or using the processing built into each individual point source speaker, like the EQ in a K12.2?
The thought came to me as I was considering what EQ to program into SRX tops as presets vs outputs of an A&H SQ.
I started contemplating hypothetical strategies based on deployed speaker accessibility, networking, device EQ capability, channel availability, ease of preset recall etc. Reasons for EQ include device tuning, venue tuning, feedback control and musical preferences etc.
But as subject for a generalized video on EQ strategy I would suggest inclusion of external DSPs to round out the topic.
@@sound-guy Great idea. I'll throw that in the hopper!