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10 Heldentenors sing high C - Götterdämmerung - all live
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- čas přidán 17. 12. 2009
- 10 historical heldentenors sing the high C from act 3 of Götterdämmerung. All recordings are live recordings - the singing is real, no mounting of high notes like in the Solti Ring. This C is a difficult one - it comes late in the opera and after the long scene with the rheinmaidens. Musically, the tenor is completely nude: no orchestra, no other singers. The intonation is difficult.
The singers are organized in chronological order. The choice does not have anything to do with the quality of the singing. I took whatever I could find in my collection. Some are very good, some are catastrophes. The tenors are:
Lauritz Melchior
Max Lorenz
Ludwig Suthaus
Wolfgang Windgassen
Ramon Vinay
Set Svanholm
Hans Hopf (uhmmmmm...)
Jess Thomas
Hermin Esser
Jean Cox
This time, I did not put any comments. You can do that instead.
Picture credit for no. 9 and 10: Francois Nouvion.
Colored pictures are my artwork and should not be copied without permission.
I join those that admire Melchior in this rendition. His high "C" is rich and there!
It’s thin and strained
@@ettoredipugnar6990 Not to my ears.
@@jackbulmash4247 Nor mine!
@@ANAXAPCIC It may not sound as good as when a mid-to-high tenor does it, but it's decent at least. However, they're not as loud as Franco Corelli's high C.
I had no idea Melchior had a C. He absolutely kills it.
Melchior was amazing. His voice had so much baritonal quality, but he could do this... Usually on his high notes he kind of places it and then fills it in, but this one he just rips it.
William Morris a true heldentenor :)
He also could sing down to low C... his voice was a freak of nature. Not only did he posses a robust sound in all areas of the male voice, but he also maintained that power and vibrance well into his 60s...
@@boundary2580 can you show proof of melchior low c please
Thats cool! I have been practicing and when I started I thought I was a baritone, but I’ve found I am able to do this. With very similar quality! Will keep practicing for sure, and may try some repertoire in this fach!
I have gone down to g1 and up to c6 but dont expect anyone to believe me on a youtube comment with no content yet. Not saying thats my good/consistent singing range but have hit those notes and even lower/higher using different registers and techniques. I could growl a d1 and confirmed it with a pitch detector.
Ramon Vinay and Melchior are my favorites! They truly blur the lines between baritones and tenors!
Some of these are just not on pitch. I love the attack and vibrato on Melchior's C. Svanholm's is certainly the brightest High C.
Melchior by far. Impressive C, even better then many Tenors specialized for Italian repertoire, where it is more necessary.
As a newcomer to Wagner and heldontenors this was a quick and fun introduction. Even as a beginner, it felt instinctive to recognise the first tenor as the most powerful
I agree‼️😎👍
OMG Lauritz Melchior was and still is the king of heldentenors! Unbelievable and this is just a recording! I can only imagine what it was like to hear him live! Thanks for sharing!
The "all live" in the title could be interpreted as if reporting that they all survived the encounter with the high C :D
If so, it was not true...
@@AfroPoli can you tell me what a heldentenor is
@@Jay2k2323 It's a basically a german dramatic tenor
Yaboii_cobie it’s literally just a dramatic tenor. I would say it’s a cooler name, but “dramatic tenor” has a nice ring to it as well.
hahhhhah OMG just thought the same
I completely agree with tenorschofield ! I am myself a tenor and I find the Melchior's high C absolutely wonderful, perfectly placed and so clear ! Astonishing for such a "heavy" voice !!
Vinay!!!! That baritone sound makes it special!!! The best!!!
Well said! Vinay is the best!!!
Vinay fascinates me. He's the only singer that I know of that sang both Otello AND Iago.
He was actually a bariton... without squillo. He was wise enough not to try "Siegfried".
@@docmalthus Carlos Guichandot and Paolo Silveri sang both roles. It's not too far fetched to believe that Renato Zanelli sang both roles, also.
Wow. Now I know why Melchior is still considered the best heldentenor. After listening to him, the rest just didn't approach his league ... at all. I guess a second, albeit a distant second, would be Svanholm. As another commenter put it, he "made love to that C", relished in it. But wow again ... what a ring Melchior had!
set swanholm has more depth than him
mario del monaco & max lorenz have more power than him
@@thisisit8735 this recording of Lauritz is not of good quality, as most recordings made during that time and before tended to brighten the voices of the singers significantly. Listen to the baritones of the time. If you want a good example of Melchoirs voice look for a recording from his later years, maybe his 60-70s. He still ha d a great sound there. Set is far brighter than him.
I'm very impressed! Fantastic group of tenors! I didn't think any of the C's were catastrophes
Melchior is in a class by himself. Also like Suthaus. Great video. Thank you.
Set svanholm’s sounded so much better and more in control!
Vinay and Melchior are magnificent...
Melchior FTW. Hearing the other 9 simply reinforces why those who heard Melchior were almost in complete agreement that no other before or since comes close.
I'd take any of them today compared to what's available. I read somewhere that Toscanini had said that the only true heldentenors he had ever heard were Tamagno and Melchior.
That was Beecham, not Toscanini.
You may be correct. The article I read attributed the statement to Toscanini but you can't believe everything you read to be correct.
I cant imaging Tamango as a Heldentenor . Espc with his limited recordings.
I think Jay Hunter Morris is the closest we have to a true Heldentenor like Melchior today. He has a very fine voice and the athleticism to sing these roles well.
@@ettoredipugnar6990 Keep in mind that Tamagno was ill (heart issues), retired and died shortly after the recordings were made. They were not truly indicative of his true power and ringing top. Verdi picked him as Othello for a reason.
il DO di SVANHOLM è grande come un'ottava sotto....il migliore in assoluto
Love Vinay's color, though I wish he'd held it longer!
But Vinay can sing bass, other great Wagnerian tenors can’t!
@@BaroneVitellioScarpia1 'Cause Viany was no tenor at all.
Vinay is so interesting - a clear baritonal sound, singing high C and doing it so well. So powerful. I agree it is a pity he did not hold the tone a little longer. Now he gives the impression that he couldn't hold the C longer. Is that correct? He was splendid av Furtwänglers Otello (no high notes there) and as Tristan (not the highest role).
Svanholm svell, Suthaus suell, Lorenz Low-rent, Hans Hopfless, Thomas tholerable but Melchior Magnificat Maximus Marvel Mekhayah.
What about Vinay?
Melchoir blows them out of the water. Svanholm gets points for power and Cox gets points for longevity.
Thank you for sharing my point of view regarding the extraordinary Melchior high note. I always admired admired all of this wonderful "heldentenors", but must say, specially Lauritz Melchior, he was great!!!
Insane voices. Thanks for showcasing all of these.
This is the most entertaining video on CZcams!
Svanholm was pretty good, but I gotta give it to Melchior.
Melchior is king. None of the other C's here is in the same league. Would have loved to hear him sing the Kaiser in Die Frau ohne Schatten.
Jean Cox and Wolfgang Windgassen!! 🥇🥇
Nagyon köszönjük az egyedülálló kigyűjtést! :)
Wow, Melchior is amazing!
@AfroPoli Maestro grazie per la sua risposta, e sempre un piacere il sentire vostri materiali musicale. I learna lot from watching of of them, specially this one. It teaches us tenors, how to approach a so high note. Gracias de nuevo por su ayuda...BRAVOOOOO!!!!!!
My God Melchior's standard still stands....the definition of a Heldentenor as you can HEAR the Baritonal qualities in his voice but his "C" is full of power. Windgassen was a true stud too in his time. Not sure if Vickers ever did Siegfried but would have loved to hear him.
He didn't. He had some weird Christian hangup about the role.
@@q45ij54q That's odd....I always thought he was just keeping within certain vocal boundaries.....I mean he sang SiegMUND as well as a great Tristan....I mean the man knew what he was doing he had around 40 roles and had a career of a pretty fair length
Thanks so much!
Il primo e l'ultimo come esecuzione sono i migliori!!! Grazie
Anche Svanholm è buono...
Melchior! Unsurpassed to this day. The man had no fear.
many of these guys were stronger than many first ranked singers like domingo,..... they were amazing! o my God
...Sen.Domingo himself would not call him Heldentenor. Neither would I, despite calling a wonderful singer and artist.
Lauritz Melchior
, Max Lorenz, Ludwig Suthaus, Wolfgang Windgassen, Ramon Vinay and Set Svanholm actually were first-ranked singers.
And they were heldentenors with heavy and very big voices, while Domingo had much lighter spinto voice. It's hard to make a comparsion, this kind of repertoire simply couldn't be sung by Domingo.
Konrad Messerer domingo is terrible nothing of real artistry
Opera Lover Because？
@@Guy-bm5wh he had bad technique?
Hai hou! or haiiii hiiii!?...fuera de bromas, muy bueno el video! Melchior y Vinay mis favoritos! no hay ninguno malo, en realidad sólo 'bajo de forma' fisica! ahahahhaha! gracias Afropoli!
Very interesting to hear the comparison of some of the great interpreters and their different approach to this passage. It's a high B natural rather than a C, though - it can be difficult to determine for some of these singers as not all of them manage to hit the note!
@eustazio Hello.
I don't know about the others, but Melchior is from a complete live performance from the Met. (Well almost- the usual Met cuts of the period). In his early career, he was known to sing bass, baritone, and tenor on the same day! He still said, much later, he could still sing a good bass low D. As the Met Asst Manager said "Melchior was a natural phenomenon- something on the order of Niagara Falls". He was peerless.
David.
max lorenz, great tenor
I think Melchior voice was probably bigger than everyone who came after him. There is a recording of him singing in Gotterdammerung with Flagstad producing a gorgeous ringing C6 and him the A-flat4. I can't imagine any tenor who could match that volume so easily. I'm not a believer in bel canto singing at all times especially in dramatic works.
Melchior, for the win!!
Melchior. Sounded easy for him!
There really hasn’t been another Melchior, has there?
Set ,fue el que mas me gustó.
Hmmmmmm Set Svanhom , Jean Cox
Inspiring!
Melchior wins, and when he was a baritone he added a high C in Il trovatore duet with Leonora. Would love to hear it.
For me, Windgassen has the most beautiful voice.
Strange that Heldentenor quality dégradés with time instead of improving as in musicians in general.
Many heldentenors can improve as musicians even if they start elsewhere.
I believe that Windgassen is actually a lyric tenor who sang a lot of Wagner. I prefer Melchior, Svanholm, Vinay, Lorenz, Beirer, Thomas and King.
@@BaroneVitellioScarpia1 hear hear
To tell everybody the truth my favourite is Jean Cox. I was born in Mannheim and for me he was the unique singer who could perform the high c. Apart from that why should we not send historical or contemporartory heroric tenors to a competition of the Waelse calls in the Ring? I bet Jean Cox is the winner!
Thanks for sharing this wonderful mvideo that helps us all tenors, in our understanding of the rigth emision of our high range (specialy the high "C"). I liked very much all, specially the one of Lawritz Melchior (why do you hummm.. Hans Hopf?, is that he does a "Si naturale" isntead of the Do?, please clarify, since I hear a sligth difference, only that). Thank you very much for sharing this jewel with all us. BRAVOOOO
Wow I'm surprised some of those singers have high C's at all as most of these singers rarely sung above an A. Melchior and Lorenz really convincing as notes that seem to fit the actual timbre of their voice.
Melchior... bravo!
Set , undoubtedly
Melchior is unsurpassed!
New York Götterdämmerung 1936. Available on Naxos and other labels.
I fell off from my chair when I heard Melchior!
Lauritz Melchior, Set Svanholm
All interesting,but I suppose now I know why Melchior was considered the only true Heldentenor. He may have been the only one to truly work his ass off. I think he trained for about 16 years to get there!
I've heard Windgassen live. With Nilsson in Tristan. It was a tiny pinched sound. It was nothing at all like Vickers or Thomas. When Vickers let loose it shook the walls.
Vickers didn't have a C , but what a voice !!!!!
@DragTas Actually, Wagner wrote his operas with the idea that the vocalist and orchestra were of equal importance, it didn't matter what nationality the singer was, he just had to be able to sing over an orchestra
Melchior is unsurpassable!
Surprisingly, none of them were actually lousy. Hopf came closest, not getting up to pitch. Esser was not all that wonderful, but all the others were good to excellent. I would put Melchior first, but several others were very close.
Melchior e Vinay .
Vinay non era umano o che? 😬
@@jobeshufe06
Vinay aveva una voce di colore più scuro,pastosa e molto più grande del basso ''moderno''
Samuel Ramey,e' un fatto.
ha cantato da baritono e alla fine della sua carriera clamorosa come non bastasse ha interpretato Il Grande Inquisitore ...
alla fine dei conti Ramon Vinay /uno dei migliori Otello nella storia della lirica.../ semplicemente e' stato un fenomeno .
era un leone della lirica .
@@bodiloto qui manca il tuo commento
👇
czcams.com/video/DwAnwpjifmk/video.html
😏
Melchior, the best.
How is the line written? About half of them drop down from the high C to an F-sharp. I'm assuming G is correct but you really can't tell from these samples.
It's a drop to F-sharp.
Lauritz Melchior! The Best!!!
Melchior still takes the prize in this moment. Half of those here would have been wise to abstain.
Why did Ramon Vinay's tenor voice have an extremely dark baritone color than the bass-baritone.
Do you think anybody can answer that question?
Because his technique is better than a lot of “bass-baritones”.
@@BaroneVitellioScarpia1 why do you just keep saying dumb shit? Darker doesn’t mean better
Melchior, Svanholm and Cox. Also, Hermin Esser not bad at all.
Melchior and Vinay sound amazing to me ...
Well, what more could be said about Lauritz, he was just the greatest! Not bad for a former baritone, though virtually everyone who's ever sung the role had started as one.
Melchior high C is beautiful and impressive. But I think Suthaus sings the note the way Wagner meant it. There's no Fermata in the music. Should sound like a horn signal, not a possibility for tenors to hold a high note 😉
tenorette2003 and you think those tenors with holding high c did not know that?
Melchior tops them all
Anybody notice that as time goes on the C's get worse? I wonder what that says about the downward slide in vocal technique. Melchior is unbelievable.
In general, the C's do get worse, especially after 1960.
Max Lorenz was the best there was! Why? He could sing like Melchoir, but he was also a great actor on stage, which Melchoir wasn't.
No, he could not sing like Melchior. Of course I like Lorenz, too.
Hans Dampf, Melchior whom I did see on about Eight Occasions In Covent Garden including Otello in Italian, where I also saw Lorenz three times, I also saw Lorenz many times after the War, most of these I heard at one point in my Life, the more modern ones you can forget, the first I heard doing this was Rudolf Laubenthal when I was 11 Years old in 1930, I am now on the verge of 102 years of age, Melchior was not a bad actor and he certainly was agile on the stage when needed Certainly as the Two Siegfrieds, Lorenz I can concur, he was a very good actor and Wagnerian Tenor, he and Melchior were friendly , but he fell out with many of the German Austrian and some Scandinavian singers in the Nazi era, I once talked to Herbert Janssen about Melchior, he thought it rather strange to watch the bidding for roles when many of the Jewish left, he himself vowed never to give the Nazi salute, some of the German Singers did in Covent Garden after 33, including Lorenz, Bockelmann and Volker, others notably Maria Muller did not, Politics of that period of History was full of Intrigue, Singers were drawn in to that, Janssen who was German did not, Lorenz was Hitler's Favourite, he could do nothing wrong, but Melchior always had a major following in Germany and Austria , but he hated the Heil Hitler's of the Scandinavians and told them so, Svanholm gave the salute, joyfully, so did many others the most notorious was the Great Helge Rosvaenge who I think made a big mistake, he was one of the greatest Tenors I ever heard and nobody can take that away from him, I heard him in 37 and 38 and after the War in 52 and 53, 54. Great Singer. also Volker another beautiful voice, who was not a Nazi suffered the consequences, he should have been seen more often.
Back to Lorenz and Melchior , Lorenz I thought that his singing in Die Meistersinger was not comfortable, the High Tessitura of the part for the Heldentenor really to my thinking was not his forte, he looked the part and acted well, Siegfried suited him down to the ground he was a great Siegfried, so was Melchior, it was absolutely amazing to here his voice in full flow, Lorenz had a big voice, but Melchior had a Big voice with great carrying power, I heard my first Tristan in 1931, when Melchior was partnered by Frida Leider, many say Flagstad was his best, but Leider was immense in that Opera in a different way, she had Warmth , that is why Melchior liked her and Lehmann, Melchior had something else at his disposal, he had Colour and Pathos in that Large Voice and had an incredible Head voice to boot, this section in Gotterdamrung I heard Melchior and Lorenz and many others, Melchior was Polished and Musical, all his Wagner was musical, he never really barked or shouted, he had no need to, it was the perfect voice for Wagner, they were both very Tall men and Lorenz was not as large as Melchior in the late 30's and 40's, I would say they are the Parnassus of Helden tenors in Wagner, let us enjoy them both as I did.
I found it very sad at the way the Operatic World dismissed Lorenz, I met them both at some periods in the late 50's Lorenz always talked rather quietly and with good manners, a lovely Man.
Melchior equally had great personality wit and humour, it is sad to think what would have Lorenz become if he had stayed in the US in the 30's, he was a very private man for obvious reasons, but the Nazi's owned him, at least he survived, he rarely talked of his experience and when I talked to Melchior in a small interview I did with him for a London Opera magazine in the fifties, he was very kind and talked about the good parts of Lorenz's very troubled life, Beecham liked them both, Furtwangler , Melchior really got up his nose as to say, Toscanini was a great admirer of Melchior not only about his singing, but his Anti Fascism will certainly be remembered of his Broadcasts to Denmark. during the War,.
I hope you keep admiring the two greats, they will never be found again that is for sure.
@@robertevans8010 Dear Mr. Evans, I felt a sense of unreality reading your comment. Thank you very much for the unique, most valuable and interesting testimony of a contemporary. You are lucky to see and hear a great era that will never return. A terrible and difficult time, and at the same time - a time of a great art, full of high, strong and genuine passions and great characters. I sincerely wish you good health and all the best. (PS: Excuse my poor English)
i cant find melchiors recording anywhere on the internet! what cd is it from?
Melchior. Wagner will never have another musical servant such as he was. Immortal.
I have another interesting thought about these singers. It is rare, even unheard of for a tenor to be identified as a Heldentenor often there is a transition from one vocal fach to another. Either an Baritone who has not matured and fully realized his upper register or a lyric or Spinto voice that has matured over time and transitioned into the dramatic and or Heldentenor fach. These 10 singers what is your opinion do you feel they started off as Baritones or Tenors. Thank you for your response.
Melchior, Svanholm, and Vinay are all known to have started as baritones. The others were, as far as I know, tenors who sang tenor throughout their careers. (BTW, there is a recording of the King Philip/Grand Inquisitor duet from "Don Carlo" in which Vinay attempts the Inquisitor part opposite Ezio Flagello's Philip. Flagello is superb. Vinay was absolutely horrible, frightfully miscast. His tenor timbre was all wrong for the Inquisitor, which calls for a very low bass like Mardones, De Angelis, List, Kipnis, or Neri.)
Melchior, Svanholm and Lorenz
COX---SVANHOLM-MELCHIOR...per quanto riguarda il DO.grazie
Best: Melchior, Svanholm(in a recording that does justice to his voice as well) and Cox- very thrilling and well-nourished high Cs.
I really like Lorenz's voice as well, though his C is not quite as good as the above.
Least favourites: Hopf and Windgassen were more like half-second shouts to me. Same with Vinay but he sings the rest of the segment very well I think.
I agree with all of that. Lorenz has a special timbre to his voice that I believe comes from his superb acting ability.
HUGES.
It wasn't the volume of Melchior's voice that impressed me. In decibel terms, I doubt his voice was significantly bigger than say, Lorenz, or Ramay's. It was the bright partials, beautiful laser beam tone & focus of Melchior's top that makes him stand out (for me) It is bel canto singing in terms of tone quality. What the Italians call filar il tuono, - spinning the tone. Most dramatic tenors roar the high C, but the beauty of tone & focus of Melchior's top shows why his voice is unequalled.
who is "Ramay"?
@@kable321 Probably Ramon Vinay. Just took out all the middle letters. ;)
Why did Ramon Vinay have a tenor voice that is extremely darker than the basses, baritones, and other tenors?
Probably because he started as a baritone and returned to being a baritone toward the end of his career. I saw his Scarpia (I think in New Jersey) and he was terrific.
@@paragod333 He was always a tenor for most of his career or was he really a tenor?
I mean, Melchior and Svanholm of course...
Not all 10 gp for the C, but the alternate sounds standard. Wagner' opional version or tradition?
Can someone Tell me the name of the aria?
Very beginning of Act 3, Scene 2 of Gotterdammerung.
Svanholm is the best, by far.
Do most singers drop this an octave?
No Hans Beirer?
No Aldenhoff, either. Curious how they're the two heldentenors that Time forgot.
czcams.com/video/e-lJ9XnG8Do/video.html
Melchior is the best.
Still Melchior he is Miles ahead of any other, he actually sings the High C!
I think you confusing Windgassen for Vinay? Because Vinay's C is ... um ... about a millisecond long.
A lot of these tenors sound like leggiero tenors that developed the breaks of a heldentenor from singing so heavy
Teredin Faustus Melchior has a true heldentenor sound which surprisingly enough should have the bite of a leggerio but with the baritonal sound in the lower/middle register.
Melchior and then Jess Thomas (not long but it is of good quality)
What scene is this aria?
III. Act, beginning of II. Scene.
todos baritonos convertidos en tenores
Menos el segundo, Max Lorenz, que empezó como tenor lírico
Hi Hoooo
Hoiho, hoiho, hoiho, hoihe!
@@Alexander.Christian-0612 Finden wir endlich, wohin du flogest?
jaijo jaijoo JAIJOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Ni uno da el do de pecho.....
Sorry, I meant Vinay, not Ramay.