Mel Gibson Weighs in on Vigano Excommunication (should we care?!)
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I commend Tim for his humble approach to all this. His search for the truth seems genuine.
Snarkily asking should we care what Mel thinks equates to should we care what you or I think too.
@@Vinny-no9bd it wasn't snarky though?
Mel Gibson is a proper masculine man who wont "tow the line" with child abusers and those who protect them.
God bless you and your family Tim.
Check out the podcast with Robert Moynihan and Dr Edmund Mazza regarding the vigano excommunication. History shows vigano is not a schismatic and is not excommunicated
Where can I find this podcast.
I know who Moynihan is but what podcast in particular?
Urbi Orbi videos
@@seli385 - type in Robert Moynihan -Edmund Mazza “vigano vs Francis “. Well worth the watch.
I don't criticize him and support him where we agree because we need every good ally at this time against evil at its worst manifestations.
Since a sitting pope holds all the power how do the bishops get rid of him if he is manifestly a heretic? Well, you resist him by exposing him and campaigning against him, in a word, through politics---by "hook or crook". The end justifies the means here because the salvation of souls are at stake, which is the supreme law of the Church, and why it was instituted by our Lord in the first place.
Vigano is looking for support to form a consensus. Thank-you Mel.
Great point!
Are you high?
The catholic faith is in the Creeds. You don't have to guess or speculate or make up various complex situations A-Z. "This is the catholic faith....." It's what you confess on Trinity Sunday etc.
Rome has folks all absolutely conditioned in one way or another. Listen to the 1st millenium. Vigano belongs to Christ and Christ is gracious and mericiful--abounding in steadfast love.
The Catholic faith is in the successor of Peter and those bishops in communion with him.
@@Wired4Life2not a great response, here’s why. There have been about 30 anti-popes in history (not saying P. Francis is one) and each one was considered the pope by some, if not a majority. If they were teaching heresy, do you place yourself in communion with them or resists the error and maintain loyalty to the timeless teachings of the church? Basically, communion with the church takes on a larger meaning than just that of the current pontiff, it’s communion with the whole church and its past.
Not all excommunications are created equal as the post-Conciliar popes are more equal than others:
Francis the Merciful and Booster of Luther, the Overrider of Trent and Almost Four Hundred Years of Popes Thereby, the Self-Described Not-Vicar, has the power to do the above, as well as conversely declare that even heretics, apostates, etc (but not "schismatics" like Vigano) are brothers and part of the communion of saints, and all without a hint of cognitive dissonance. Behold! The power of post-Conciliar popes:
"No one can exclude themselves from the Church, we are all saved sinners. Our holiness is the fruit of God’s love manifested in Christ, who sanctifies us by loving us in our misery and saving us from it. ... Let’s think about those who have denied the faith, who areapostates, who are the persecutors of the Church, who have denied their baptism: Are these also at home? Yes, these too. All of them. Theblasphemers, all of them. We are brothers. This is the communion of saints. The communion of saints holds together the community of believers on earth and in heaven, and on earth: the saints, the sinners, all." ~ 2/2022
Vigano is 'Benedict is Pope", so only since Pope Benedict died is the papacy empty
🙏 thank you 🙏
Tim, one of your best shows ever was when you were recording a show from your RV or perhaps it was in the hospital itself while Abby was there and you were talking about pain and suffering.
Didn’t St Bellarmine say “they have the buildings and we have the Faith.”
I believe you mean St. Athanasius, and you mean the Arian Crisis.
@@drwalmgcthat’s correct.
'The greater majority of Church leaders and the emperors fell into support for Arianism, so much so that Jerome (340-420) wrote of the period: "The whole world groaned and was amazed to find itself Arian".[23] He, Athanasius, even suffered an unjust excommunication from Pope Liberius who was exiled and leant towards compromise, until he was allowed back to the See of Rome. Athanasius stood virtually alone against the world.[34]' wikipedia. Can we substitute Vigano for Athanasius? One aggravating factor against that is that Vigano stated that the Pope is not the Pope, in addition to attacking the Council. This may keep him from getting back in...ever.
We can learn from the Arian crisis for sure, but without a doubt our situation today is new. We have never had a "Conciliar Church" before, or the church of the New Advent as JPII wrote. This crisis is off the scale compared to anything in the past. That is why catholics are having a hard time wrapping their heads around it. Previous definitions of being excommunicated or being in schism do not apply IMO.
Not all excommunications are created equal as the post-Conciliar popes are more equal than others:
Francis the Merciful and Booster of Luther, the Overrider of Trent and Almost Four Hundred Years of Popes Thereby, the Self-Described Not-Vicar, has the power to do the above, as well as conversely declare that even heretics, apostates, etc (but not "schismatics" like Vigano) are brothers and part of the communion of saints, and all without a hint of cognitive dissonance. Behold! The power of post-Conciliar popes:
"No one can exclude themselves from the Church, we are all saved sinners. Our holiness is the fruit of God’s love manifested in Christ, who sanctifies us by loving us in our misery and saving us from it. ... Let’s think about those who have denied the faith, who areapostates, who are the persecutors of the Church, who have denied their baptism: Are these also at home? Yes, these too. All of them. Theblasphemers, all of them. We are brothers. This is the communion of saints. The communion of saints holds together the community of believers on earth and in heaven, and on earth: the saints, the sinners, all." ~ 2/2022
What is hard in this whole thing…is that a super faithful and relied on son of the Church, Vigano, who apparently ran Rome and was called the “Mayor of Rome”…has, in a mere 10 years, come to excommunication….this is odd. Also, how will he be viewed in history?I wonder what this pontificate would have done with Catherine of Sienna and many others that put truth to power? ….I don’t know…I am continually grateful for extraordinary grace on all our behalf’s.
I'm just curious why Vigano waited so long to say anything when McCarrick was under his watch even though he knew what he was doing and didnt reign him in or keep him out of the public eye at the very least?
@bluecomb5376 Look at what Vigano has been through in the last 6 years. At least he did the right thing in the end. Bergoglio definitely knew and he PROMOTED AND PROTECTED McCarrick. Pure evil.
I would like to vote for the show on schism requiring innovation. It sounds good but there is a lot there. Worth a discussion.
Yes I care what MG thinks. I love Mel. I pray his salvation is not compromised with his beliefs.
I love him too. I don't think God would take his salvation away because Mel can't accept the evil man that is Bergoglio, who protects and promotes child molesters and perverts.
I remember hearing years ago, even decades ago, although not made by Catholics or even written by a Catholic (Franz Werfel), how a common reaction to "Song of Bernadette" was that a large number of non-Catholic audience members of the time actually discussed and considered conversion to Catholicism. I never heard of any reaction like that to "Passion of the Christ", not on a large scale anyway. I do like "Passion" as visual art but I don't know that I think of it as a Catholic movie in terms of something specific to the Catholic religion presented as food for thought for the audience. It's not really even in a conventional story telling form, something that Gibson himself pointed out, in order to emphasize the visually artistic aspect of "Passion of the Christ". He even released a companion book that came out at the same time as the movie with the artwork that influenced the movie. He said he originally wanted it without subtitles because he thought of it as being so strongly visual, as a refection of or as some kind of re-creation of Renaissance art.
"Song of Bernadette", again not even written by a Catholic, did present food for thought, but since the author wasn't Catholic he left it as open questions for the audience. But that's OK by me, that's more than "Passion of the Christ" did. I get it, "Song of Bernadette" had no CGI, used more "legitimate theater" acting and directing style rather than modern cinematic style and was filmed (actually filmed, not video recorded) in black and white (gasp!) but I think it does a better job representing beliefs specific to the religion.
So no, it's not a fact that "Passion of the Christ" is the greatest Catholic movie ever. You have your opinion, I have mine, and there are many others with their opinions, and none of us can decide for the rest of us what is the best movie or best "Catholic" movie. I use the more generic term "movie" (as in short for "moving pictures") because "Passion of the Christ" was never on the medium of actual _film_ ; it not only makes a difference in the look and feel of the product but even in the flow because it strongly affects the editing which is really important.
Yes, I would especially be interested in an episode exploring more deeply the issue of whether novelty is required to be a schismatic. I would also be interested in you conducting a deep dive on the issue of whether an invisible church could exist where the “false church” has only the buildings.
I've stopped watching Catholic Answers since Patrick Coffin left. It wasn't even close to being the same without him.
All parties agree except the hierarchy. They don’t believe!
Praise Mel Gibson, the Lord is proud of him and Arch Bishop Vigano, and very disappointed with Poop Bergoglio and Bergoglio's weid sick fellow prelates. Tom Hubbard River Bend NC parishioner of St Paul Catholic Church.
I agree. I cant side with a man who protects and promotes child molesters and perverts over the men who call them out and take action.
The more I listen to Catholics trying to get around Vatican 2 and the fruits there of the more I have to consider what the seds have to say
True as I was thought in cmri school. The reason they hold to sede position because they don't believe a true pope can give a liturgy that's deficient and even promulgate a council like vatican 2 even if it's not ex cathedra. They believe accepting them as popes but also teaching there are things wrong with Novud Ordo and v2 is contradictory to vatican 1 and basically saying the church is infallible only by solemn decree and can teach all kinds of errors in the ordinary magesterium. Only sedes and popesplainers fully accept that a pope can't give a defective liturgy. Therefore the popesplainers fully accept the novus ordo and vatican 2 whereas the sedes feel that because they see a problem with novus ordo or some doubts about it they feel the need to fully reject these popes since they believe likewise no true pope can do this.
Fr James Maudsley did a good video called what the sede vacantists get right.
Please do a show on whether or not schism has to be an innovation.
Ed Feser gets it right imo especially the "impatient for a resolution" part.
I don’t impugn Viganò’s courage, but his judgment. As Plato warns, it is not only the appetites that can subvert reason, but also thumos or righteous indignation. In response to the unprecedented wickedness of our times, too many Catholics and conservatives, impatient for a resolution, have rallied behind unsound leaders and embraced crackpot theories. What the times call for is both steely courage and rigorous and dispassionate thinking. Neither will be effective without the other.
Archbishop Vigano has the authority to judge heresy. God has the authority to use his hierarchy to declare it and remove it.
@@teresaoftheandes6279No, that's not accurate, not when it comes to judging the First See (Rome): only the First See has the authority to judge the First See (a future Pope judging a previous Pope). This is one of the fundamental differences between a Catholic and a schismatic.
It's been 6 years since the summer of shame and almost 5 since paccamama. How much longer are we supposed to wait? It's not impatientce, it's the dragging our feet and twiddling our thumbs over evil perverts who protect and promote child molesters that God will want us to answer for.
Timothy Gordon Weighs in on Vigano Excommunication (should we care?!)
I'm a Gibson fan. I consider him an ally and a separated brother in Christ. Sede is high stakes poker. I'm not down with that. I didn't know he follows his father's faith. It's not totally superfluous that he's reaching out to V, but it's not of significant interest to me.
I would say "no" because carrying too much about what others think about OTHERS salvation is just noise the devil will use to distract us and perhaps steal our peace. We could do better to just focus on ours and those in our charge's salvation. THAT is what we have control over.
Yes, we should. Btw (should) is a really funny word.
Read prophecy of Tyconius about the Apocolyptic end time Church.
EMJ as not an H-denier.
I like me; nobody perfect
I don’t see how to subscribe on ios
I watch all your shows. I. Attend SSPV. That’s all I have for Traditional Mass. They don’t preach Sede and you do not have to be Sede. I found SSPX to be too modern, At the Sanctus, I was the only one kneeling. The missal says KNEEL, btw. It’s been 4 years and I am becoming Sede. I have no problem with my choice. I can’t stand the NO. Too much talking, shaking hands and priests inserting their personality.
There were several burnt offerings during WW2, Dresden and Japan cities such as Tokyo were some of the worst. But the most famous one with the alleged 6x10^6 is the one I have issues with, now if that number was closer to 60,000 I would have a much easier time believing it. That and the fact that all the supposed d-camps just so happened to be located in areas the USSR took control of after the war, I should note the USSR refused to allow the Red Cross access to corroborate these claims. Are you inclined to trust the NKVD/KGB? I believe there are something like 15 million of those people alive at this time and if you correlate with what their population likely was in the early 20th century when the total population of earth was 2 billion it’s entirely plausible that there weren’t even 6x10^6 of them on the entire European continent.
The modernist would excommunicate St. Alphonsus De Ligouri if he were here today and probably 99% of the litany of saints. What would Pope St. Pius X do with a bergolio during his reign? All the Cardinals & bishops should be joining Archbishop Vigano in publicly admonishing bergolio so he could hopefully repent before he goes to his judgment
I think the sede's are probably right but only a future pope and ecumenical council will prove it when Our Lord sends us a Holy Pontiff
This is an interesting one to think through. I do think that it's tough to argue sedevacantists are right if Vatican 2 had no errors. We all know Vatican 2 left the door open for a ton of bad. I just wouldn't think that both sedevacantists could be right and Vatican 2 could have no errors at the same time.
Are they really the true schismatics?
Celebrities know best?
Concerning the excommunication, I obey PP Francis, who says God "wills the diversity of religions" and that "no one can exclude themselves from the Church". He also teaches that proselytizing is a sin against ecumenism, so you risk disobedience to the Magesterium if you prosteletize about Vatican II.
“No one can exclude themselves from the Church, we are all saved sinners...those who have denied the faith, who are apostates, who are the persecutors of the Church, who have denied their baptism: Are these also at home?...Yes, these too. All of them. The blasphemers, all of them. We are brothers. This is the communion of saints. The communion of saints holds together the community of believers on earth and in heaven, and on earth the saints, the sinners, all." -PP Francis February 2, 2022 Vatican weekly wednesday general audience
You believe it is God's will for Muslims to deny Christ and worship Mohammed?
No Saint in the history of the Church would tell you to obey this. In fact, they'd be on the front lines ready for war.. a great priest once told to me.. "Is the faith above the authority, or is the authority above the faith? If it's the former (as the Apostles and all saints held) then the SSPX is doing the right thing and the NOM world is in a state of apostasy."
Hello Mr. Gordon. What do you think about the Gospel according to John 21: 18 ? Is it possible that God allows us to deviate from Him and to follow even His elect, like St.Paul states in 1 Cor. 14? In other words, The Pope is being mislead and we are focusing on man, rather than on God.
He's being misled? You're being too charitable. It's all on purpose. He cpuldnt have got this much wrong by accident.
@@racheljames7if it's on purpose, then it's done or allowed by God as John 21: 19 states.
What is SSPV?
Lmgtfy?
Society of St Pius V.
I attend SSPV. Liturgy is pre 1955
@@flightattendantangela7248 Thanks!
Have your wife on mike if you’re going to ask her to weigh in on something.
I have a question. You say there is no Divorce . Both our spouses were cheating with other multiple people . One moved in with a woman whie married. We went through all our classes and It took 10 years for our annulment to go through. So what you are saying is we are not married ? We lived like brother and sister for years till our annulment was approved. So are we married in the church or not?
My personal opinion is this, and it might not mean much,the reason why people are paying attention due to his money, celebrity status and that he is openly involved, active in his faith, and the work he put into creating a Catholic view of the most important aspect of our faith in a film...not to mention taking the same view as Vigano...it's going to cause a huge stir..the thing is..as the church continues to be persecuted and it is going to be harder to practice your faith publicly..there will be more people with money resources and influence taking a side...MG believes that he is truly trying to stay on the side of Christ and his true church.....I don't know what to think. I think PF is a horrible pope, and I just want to know what God wants. So our family will keep to the traditional side of practicing the faith and let God sort it out
Gibson has never stated he is a sedevacantist.
He doesn't need apply the label to himself in order to be a Sedevacantist: by denying that anyone is on the Chair, he is one. That's the meaning of the word, "Sedevacantist".
@@AMDG_JMJ Interregnums are nothing strange, Antipapacy is no novelty.
Historically people like St. Vincent Ferrer could be wrong about who is the Pope in a good faith, especially given that antipopes of the Western Schism weren't preaching open heresy.
Many ambiguities of the past should be looked through stronger lenses of established Extraordinary Magisterium, with Vatican Council in the forefront explaining what are conditions for the Infallible magisterium.
Vatican 2 "Council" if Paul VI would be a real Pope would fulfil all these conditions.
The problem is that Infallible Magisterium, that preaches truth of the faith, or morals to the whole Church cannot contradict itself. If it does preach the error to the Universal Church despite the ex-cathedra language, it points back to a PERSON who is using the language, and doesn't receive the supernatural protection of the Holy Spirit to not drag people into heresy, error, confusion, falsities.
If you accept the Vatican 1 Dogma of Infallibility: You have to reject Paul VI due to V2 confirmed by him in the very way that should guarantee free of a stain of any error.
But copying Protestant services is “Catholic.” The ultimate silliness
We are helpless and lost hope. We need Our Lady of Fatima's Help us only.
To despair is to sin--mortally. We are not without hope. Christ is our hope. This is the passion of His mystical body. Do NOT abandon Him at the Cross.
Yes this
Don’t “lose hope” because of the actions of mere men. Almighty God is still on His throne. Don’t abandon the one true Faith!!!!
I really do not understand the difference between Protestants and schismatics…can someone explain?
There is no difference. They each deny the authority of the Pope
Dude. You're a assertion that no priests that were Conservative were appointed In the seventies eighties or nineties is fallacious at best. And for at personally no price that were ordained During this time and were conservative And held on to the true morals and teachings of the catholic church. A few have been cancelled. Others have been reassigned to katiny little parishes here and there. It is more correct to say that not many of these have been appointed to the bishop rick
Michael lofton Timothy Gordon.
Lol with these super based Aristotelian CZcamsrs , I think Candace Owens the baby Catholic have a better grasp on reality tho both of y'all men.
Denying that there is a Pope and that there was a holocaust less than a hundred years ago is delusional
There's nothing delusional about wondering whether such an evil, child molester protecting, idol worshipping, heretic could possibly be the Pope. Your childish insults don't work. The grown ups will ask the questions and have the conversations.
was Mel speaking ex-cathedra?
I like his movies but would not depend on him for advice on faith.
Mel, the sede guy who lives with a live in girlfriend ? Hell no we should not care.