@@m.c.martin Stewart gets screwed over a win he should've gotten in 2007, he wins a race where another guy was screwed over a win he should've gotten. Perfectly balanced, as all things should be
Same dude. Same. The only way this gets avoided is if they called the race after halfway as they should've done. Stewart wins, takes the points lead, everyone packs up and goes home and preps for the next race, NASCAR adds lights at Kansas to prep for situations such as this race.
Kansas got lights after that race, the track had to have them to avoid this. Now most NASCAR tracks have lights for other racing on the track or if only used for NASCAR in the day, then for incidents like this.
Casey smith Pocono almost faced this same problem this year, because it has no lights. Pocono, Talladega, Watkins Glen, and Sonoma are the only tracks, that I know of, that have no lights as of 2020. Correct me, if I'm wrong.
Concerning the keeping minimum speed under yellow to maintain position, that rule wasn't put into place until the beginning of the 2008 season because of this race.
Kansas is my home track. I was pissed for years that we didn't have lights and then they finally put them in and gave us a second cup date night race. Now they have taken the night race away and we are left with 2 day races. Also if Clint Bowyer would have won, it would have been his only win at his home track.
I'm glad you mentioned how long the rain delay lasted and how it came after the halfway point. I wish they had called the race at that point and declared Stewart the winner, packed up and gone home, instead of having half the Chase field find issues and have such a controversial finish like this. Not to mention, everyone drove stupidly and affected the finish too, so that didn't help.
I do not think NASCAR ever really liked Clint Bowyer as a racer, he was a bit hot headed but not a total ass the way some were like Kyle Busch and they let him slide. I mean Kyle is the reason race tracks have safer barrier on the inner walls too when he purposely drove Jeff Gordan's car in such a way at such fast speeds he had no choice but to go into the wall. Jeff ended up unconscious/out of it for a whole minute before being able to say anything on the radio and getting out of the vehicle so messed up he had to be helped into the ambulance.
@@randomstuff6790 He is in Because NASCAR allows him in, the officials just do seem to snub him whenever they can, this being one of them. another is making him go to the back of the pack with a fixed car that at first did not pass inspection and yet Jeff Gordon did not he did the same thing of making parts too flexible in the rear window yet did not have to go to the back after inspection but also had to fix car to pass inspection. This was in the Almost No Downforce era when the stage racing was first introduced to NASCAR, sponsor Monster Energy admitted they wanted basically to have an event where every 10 laps or so a wreak happened an the sponsor forced the almost no downforce , the way Red Bull does with its sponsored rally events having courses for the event shaped in just a way they end up having one car do at least 25 flips in every race.
After having a breakout year in 2005 for Greg Biffle He fell off a cliff in 06 And his 07 season wasn't any better making his Kansas win pretty much his only highlight of the season
I wouldn't exactly say he fell off a cliff in 06 because he was extremely fast early in the season, just had horrendous luck. But as the year went on, it seemed like the results took the wind out of the 16s sails
@@NASCARFAN93100 i stand by my statement haha. Look at racing-reference, and how many laps he led early. By midseason, things cooled off, but it certainly wasn't a sudden drop off. Although I see why most would think it was one.
they really should just do what F1 does in that case. If the race cannot finish in its full lap metric, it measures under a time metric, so 1.5 hours of racing. This way when the alarm goes down that X amount of time has now passed, thats the last lap after the leader crosses. it works p well and makes the race p tense and not confusing.
Not the only one, 1969 Talladega 500 as only 3 of the cars competing that took top 3 spots were actual Cup cars The rest of the field was only some other racers in smaller closed top US made Sports cars that raced there the day before. The strike due to trying for a racers union for better pay in the race prizes and an insurance you could buy though NASCAR caused almost all of the field to leave the race as the racers were trying for a Union during the off season and into the 1969 season with a halt to if the racers started the race with the union they were in, they would prevent the racers from racing in another NASCAR race, only 3 racers were not in that union. I did not live through the time but have seen stuff on the Drivers Union in NASCAR.
NASCAR really messed up this race. Honestly, even as much as I wanted to see the race go on after the rain, especially because I didn't like Tony Stewart at the time, NASCAR should've called the race and given the win to Tony Stewart. I feel that if a race is stopped for more than an hour and a half, it should be called official, or postponed.
I definitely agree with that last part. I feel like a rule that mandates that a race that has been stopped for more than an hour and a half or two hours has to be postponed or made official would have more pros than cons. I'd be totally up for it.
@@monstermikeheinrichs And honestly, I don't know what NASCAR was trying to prove by trying to buy continuing the race. Yes, fans want to see the race go the full distance, but they're not consistent with the rain calls. They've called races after 15 minutes of a rain delay, they've waited out 7+ hours. It's even more baffling whenever it's not a crown jewel race.
@@nascarfanatic2425 I'd understand waiting a long time to get the race going again if it's a crown jewel race or a championship race, but calling it after a couple of hours should be fine for all of the others. The inconsistency in general is really annoying.
@@zuwarkgaming I'm not referring to Jr, that was a good signing. I'm referring to the fact that he kept Mears over Busch when choosing who to get rid of to open the seat for Jr.
PGOLDEN88 yeah, but he only got 1 Busch series win and 1 cup series win with Hendrick. Busch with Hendrick won 2 cup races and rookie of the year (was the youngest driver to win a cup race and get pole at the time). Then finished out at Hendrick being the first driver to win a race with the CoT, also being Hendrick’s 200th win in NASCAR. Then won a few more races in cup and truck series. And what he did after moving to JGR is history, if there wasn’t a chase and the points system NASCAR has now, he probably would be sitting with a few championships now. Mears is a good driver but never the same caliber driver as Kyle Busch
@@OffTrack Hendrick didnt lose much by letting Kyle go. He won 2 cups with JGR. After he left, Johnson won 5 championships. So from the organization view, Hendrick didnt lose much. But yes, choosing Mears instead of Kyle is just a joke.
Every time I see the 99 I feel for Carl Edwards who one might say was so beaten down by events in NASCAR that he retired WAY to early. RIP Carl. We DO miss you.
Was actually at this race, and it was my oldest son's first nascar race. He's 20 now, how the time flies! Was a really wild race, and I still to this day say Bowyer got robbed out of a win. Seemed like nascar did everything possible to get biffle into the winners circle for whatever reason. Can't remember if ford was doing really bad and needed the help, but they had their orders to give that win to the Biff for whatever reason. Also, that finish was really dark in person compared to the video!
Yup, I remember this. Always focus on how they screwed up Talledega in 2008, but this one was worse for sure. You cant fall that far back from the pace car and say you're maintaining, and poor Clint Bowyer still hasnt won at his home track.
Flashbacks of the 2004 Aaron's 499 finish with the race going past the red flag lap and NASCAR deciding to either finish the remaining laps under caution or attempt a GWC finish or even the 1 lap shootout.
The biggest part that gets forgotten in this story, is what calling the race early did to the points situation. It put nearly everyone more than a hundred points back and would have killed the exciting end to the season.
Me at the beginning of this video: "Hmmm...why do I not remember this race?" Me nearing the end of the video: "Oh I remember this vividly...and now I'm pissed at NASCAR all over again."
Scott riggs definitely should have won a few races in his career but now his son layne is a great late model driver and my dad is on there team and they are very nice people so it would have been cool to see a win but they like to drive go carts at there track with me
I was at that race! At the time I was 11. Huge Tony Stewart fan and I was pissed they didn’t call the race, that second rain delay was awful. It was a human car wash under the grandstands, we were packed like sardines for over 4 hours! Lol anyway, Bowyer should’ve been awarded the win! Would have been the biggest of his career since it was at home! It’s cool you did a video of my home track!
Yea. I'm probably just saying this because Greg was one of my favorite drivers but if he was trying so hard I would say they did a good thing to let him have it cause they wanted to just get the hell outta there.
Holy shit I was at this race, I was 9 but I remember the rain delay cause I'm pretty sure (in typical Kansas fashion) there was a tornado warning and my family left after trying to withstand the rain for a couple hours. The crowd was totally behind Bowyer the whole time as was I. NASCAR fans in KC were always fans of his cause he raced at Lakeside Speedway dirt track just a couple miles away from Kansas Speedway. Great video such a nostalgia trip!
@The Iceberg do a series where you go through a season and look and see how many wins each driver would have if the driver that lead the most laps was the car that would have won the race. Since sometimes the best car gets wrecked, has mechanical issues or whatever. It would be cool to see how different things would be. You can also see who would have won the championship by taking the driver that led the most laps and put them in first and just slide everyone else back one position in each races finishing order.
Do a video on the 2008 O'Reilly/Checker Auto Parts 500 at Phoenix. That race single handedly changed how networks now broadcast a race in its entirety no matter what
It's hard to believe that since this race, we now only have 8* tracks without lights. Chicagoland Speedway at the time had just announced they were having lights installed for their 2008 race. Kansas had lights finally installed from 2010 (outside poles) to 2011 (inside Mirtran fixtures), and Martinsville in 2017. The star after the 8 references that it would have been 7 if Kentucky (which was built with lights) had not been added to the schedule in 2011.
This is the definition of a cluster-you-know-what race. Completely unpredictable from the weather to the running order to chase guys wrecking to cautions. So many comers and goers. Insane.
It's not a "reasonable speed," it's the set pace car speed, typically about 10 mph faster than pit road speed except at tracks where that is unfeasible. By the wording of the rule, Bowyer won.
This was the first race I had ever been to. I would of been 8 almost 9 years old. My grandfather had accidentally bought my father and I just fanwalk passes instead of tickets. Somehow som way my father haggled our way in. All we did the majority of the race was sit down on the concrete steps on the fanwalk on turn 1. I got completely soaked from head to toe and freezing cold from the rain. We had left to go to the car twice but couldn’t find our car and pretty much got lost in the parking lot because the rain was coming down so hard. They had actually let us back into the race. I can’t remember why but they let us in. I can distinctly remember the wreck on Lap 155 and screaming “This is exactly what I’ve been waiting for!” After sitting there for hours completely drenched in water, shivering. And to top it all off, the power was off at home due to the storm and didn’t come back on until the next day.
I remember leaving my house during the last red flag to play tennis. Came back just in time to see all the craziness. Back then I don't think I was as annoyed with the rule as I was with Biffle winning in general, but looking back he definitely should not have won.
There are, unfortunately, a lot of misunderstandings here. I've worked in this sport for quite a while in some capacity, and fans' misunderstanding of rules is painfully common, mostly because the broadcast doesn't accurately explain exactly what is in the rulebook (for example, literally any out-of-bounds violation at Daytona/Talladega, where no broadcaster has ever fully read the rule on TV, just a simplified version). First, either the track or NASCAR themselves may issue a curfew for all race activity to end and most tracks have this as a hard rule for their events. This isn't something ever mentioned because it's not relevant to the fans, and this race played out like one that was being planned out on the fly to meet a set curfew. There are also safety considerations in play, be it driver vision due to tinted visors or NASCAR's inability to actually see the racetrack well. Second, the video says "he was not under any power of his own and under NASCAR rules it meant that Biffle would be scored in fourth", but this statement also omits a key phrase in the actual rule: "Vehicles must maintain, under their own power, a reasonable speed *considering the conditions that exist on the race track*." It's this extra part of that rule that gave Biffle the win, since the track was deemed to be unfit for racing conditions and was thus given the win instead of Bowyer. Did that chain of events suck since they just cut it short without warning? ABSOLUTELY. But this was honestly what needed to be done.
I think it was pretty obvious they were ready to just get the race done and get out of there as quick as possible, that’s why they gave Biffle the win and why they changed the rule from pace car speed to “reasonable speed”.
Felix Sabates summed up NASCAR officiating pretty well after Kyle Petty was held in the garage for several laps in a Coca Cola 600 one time: "Go and ask NASCAR, it's Kansas up there,"
Soooo in 2008 everyone was hating on Kyle Busch because of him dumping Junior at Richmond. But everyone seemed to forgot Junior dumping Kyle here at Kansas, before the Richmond incident, and with an interesting background. Hmmmm.......
erico293 Jr. admitted it was his fault and what his thought process was leading up to it. Kyle Busch always acts like he was in the right and plays the victim card. That’s why people don’t like Kyle Busch.
@@m.c.martin he admitted, but that doesn't change the fact that Junior (who was joining Hendrick next season) dumped Kyle (who was leaving Hendrick at the end of 2007), and also doesn't change the fact that in 2008 Junior fans where a bunch of hypocrytes for hating Kyle, for the same thing that Junior did to Busch
Have never been a Biffle fan but looking back, yes he should have by electing to finish under caution. With the constant changes in the amount of laps they would run til, that changed everyone's pit strategy. Had they elected to go green, for a GWC finish, which is ultimately how they should have, at least one try, then yes it would be a different outcome. I look at it this way, when weather is involved, how many drivers have won that never deserved to? Think about Beuscher and his first win and a spot he didn't earn in the Chase. By no means should be have. At least by this point, Biffle had been a proven winner. He wasn't being pushed. Had he run out a lap earlier or somewhere on the back stretch, I would see this argument a bit different. But this was a product of NASCAR changing the total laps twice during the race and doing their best to make it right. It changed pit strategy for everyone. Yes, had it stayed green, he wouldn't have finished but it's one of those variables in motorsports. I'm no fan of his and still look at 07 as a yeqr under the Chase that took away from the seasons overall best driver. Either way, it is what it is now 14 years later. We've seen far worse decisions by them. The aforementioned Pocono rain shortened race won by Beuscher is a far worse decision. I don't think any rain shortened events should count for anything more than the points earned, in other words, the "win and you're in" is out.
What is a definite fact is that Biffle did finish the race under his own power. At no point did another driver put their bumper to the back of his car on that last caution lap; he made it to the finish line using only the fuel he had in his tank. There is no rule that you must have a running engine in order for your finishing position to count. As to whether he maintained a 'reasonable' speed in the final feet to hold his position, that is a completely subjective call.
If had been then nascar would have gave the race to him now,you know how nascar let him cheat and win races.ok straight out of Hollywood now,your dad was killed in a racing accident at Daytona in February right.and then in july you his son dale jr comes back and plainly out runs ever body at the track that his dad had been killed at now,all Hollywood right and nascar letting him soup up his car and cheat to win a race just to avenge his fathers death right.stright out of a Hollywood movie now.and everybody that's got any sense and brains can see that one a mile away now right.and now he's being put into the dam nascar hall of shame for all of his cheating now,I mean wow if and body deserves it more Is kyle petty hell he's done more for nascar charity wise than anybody out there now and not because he's the kings Richard's son because he's Kyle petty the extra nice guy that when it comes down to people in need now,let it be any charity he will try to help in anyway he can and will to.but sometimes the nice guys don't always get what they deserve right!!!!!
I remember this race. I was a Stewart fan at the time and I stopped watching during the 4 hr red flag. A buddy texted me they restarted and I turned it on to see Tony crashed.
I was at this race. We left thinking it was over and i was celebrating the stewart victory all the way to the car. Only to find out he crashed out later.
Clint should've won. Greg wasn't even driving his car and falling behind at that point. Clint crossed th finish line first but i can see why Greg Biffle won. Idk if this was a rule during this time but when a caution comes out, the feild is frozen. So if Greg was leading when that happened (which he was) he would've won as he was still in first because the feild was frozen. So no matter how far back he fell, he was first place. But i think Clint should've won.
As someone who likes Biffle... Bowyer deserved the win... If him and Johnson hadn't laid back (I'm sure confused), they would've been much farther ahead... I'm actually shocked that none of the commentators said anything as he slowed and was passed.. almost like they just wanted it over
Greg Biffle should *NOT* have been awarded that win... Here's why... "However, when the leader of the race reaches the start/finish line, the next flag (caution or checkered) will end the race (although competitors are required to cross the start/finish line at pace car speed to be scored in their position at the moment of caution)." Courtesy: Wikipedia
I was super pissed when the 5 car got wrecked. I got a lot of looks sitting there in the stands booing Jr. Biffle didn't win the race, he was out of gas and he didn't maintain a reasonable speed.
NASCAR's rules confuses everyone, including them
Fish Productions and also confuses you
@@lmAgustin and me
@@lmAgustin I came here confused and left craving a juice box.
I still don’t understand all of the rules because they keep changing them
Derek Hunter because they’re stupid
NASCAR be like
*inconsistent noises*
I mean you’re not wrong
*inconsistent screaming*
*inconsistent fear*
NASCAR’s Inconsistency has entered this video
Lol
Airam Rivera Camacho not as bad as nascars inconsistency
>Scott Riggs on the pole and leading a lap
Unfortunately NR2003.exe has stopped working
How the fuck are you everywhere dude
NASCAR has been inconsistent since day one. This is nothing new.
If Biffle won this race, Marcos Ambrose won Sonoma in 2010. Gotta love the inconsistency.
To this day, I still believe Clint Bowyer got that elusive Kansas win.
If he won he would have gotten his Home State win
Same
Ross Chastainfan10 To me, Tony Stewart won. Since he was leading at the half way point, when the race should have been called.
M.C.Martin Official Channel true
@@m.c.martin Stewart gets screwed over a win he should've gotten in 2007, he wins a race where another guy was screwed over a win he should've gotten. Perfectly balanced, as all things should be
“reasonable speed” is clearly 20 mph slower than everyone else
NASCAR: Where the rules are made up and the points don’t matter
when was drew carey in charge of nascar ??
🤣🤣🤣
sicfrynut right after Clive Anderson left
5:02 Ah, so I see the Kurt Busch vs. Weather thing has been around for a while.
Lmfaooooo
The only reason I know about this race is because I watched S1apSh0es’s video on it titled “NASCAR’s Worst Officiating Calls”
Same dude. Same. The only way this gets avoided is if they called the race after halfway as they should've done. Stewart wins, takes the points lead, everyone packs up and goes home and preps for the next race, NASCAR adds lights at Kansas to prep for situations such as this race.
@@Alan_M00ch , or, delaying it untill monday after the first red flag
Just like Regan Smith won at Talladega in 08
@@henriquepaladino3779 That first red flag was short enough for weather to not be an issue.
@@Alan_M00ch , did they knew about more rain coming?
Back when Kansas HAD NO LIGHTS
Kansas got lights after that race, the track had to have them to avoid this. Now most NASCAR tracks have lights for other racing on the track or if only used for NASCAR in the day, then for incidents like this.
Casey smith Pocono almost faced this same problem this year, because it has no lights. Pocono, Talladega, Watkins Glen, and Sonoma are the only tracks, that I know of, that have no lights as of 2020. Correct me, if I'm wrong.
@@Tristin471 Makes also sense. Would be a lot of work to put lights on these tracks.
@@ichwohnedort I'm surprised Talladega hasn't gotten them. I know it's a long track, but Daytona has had lights for over 20 years.
@@Tristin471 Yeah but its Daytona. There are freakin 24hour race there and a often use In-Road Course unlike in Talladega.
Imagine not understanding your own rules
Concerning the keeping minimum speed under yellow to maintain position, that rule wasn't put into place until the beginning of the 2008 season because of this race.
Kansas is my home track. I was pissed for years that we didn't have lights and then they finally put them in and gave us a second cup date night race. Now they have taken the night race away and we are left with 2 day races. Also if Clint Bowyer would have won, it would have been his only win at his home track.
The Iceberg and Eric Estepp upload at the same time, while NASCAR is still premiering a race.
*Now That's Crazy*
I CANT DECIDE
*DAMN FUCKING RIGHT!* 👍
Black Flags Matter: Loading....
DannyBTalks: Loading....
**Illuminati theme intensifies**
Hindsight being 20/20 they should’ve just ate the rain shortened finish and gave Stewart the win. At least it wouldn’t have been such a cluster
Exactly
0:45 when you're almost home and your favorite song comes on
I'm glad you mentioned how long the rain delay lasted and how it came after the halfway point. I wish they had called the race at that point and declared Stewart the winner, packed up and gone home, instead of having half the Chase field find issues and have such a controversial finish like this. Not to mention, everyone drove stupidly and affected the finish too, so that didn't help.
That race was just a total disaster. If the track was built with lights, then none of those controversies would have happened
@Rod Rebman No. Not a solution. These cars have fumes that are very poisonous to inhale. They can cause asthma attacks and lung damage
@Rod Rebman NASCAR possibly, could have been sued for that.
Even I could tell that Rod was joking. A shit joke, but a joke nonetheless
This race features my favorite Tony Stewart paint scheme. I love the Ryobi Tools scheme
This race looks like the 2017 Brickyard 400 but on steroids
So in theory, NASCAR snubbed Clint bowyer a win at Kansas.
I do not think NASCAR ever really liked Clint Bowyer as a racer, he was a bit hot headed but not a total ass the way some were like Kyle Busch and they let him slide. I mean Kyle is the reason race tracks have safer barrier on the inner walls too when he purposely drove Jeff Gordan's car in such a way at such fast speeds he had no choice but to go into the wall. Jeff ended up unconscious/out of it for a whole minute before being able to say anything on the radio and getting out of the vehicle so messed up he had to be helped into the ambulance.
@@caseysmith544 If NASCAR doesn't like Clint bowyer why is he in NASCAR.
@@randomstuff6790 He is in Because NASCAR allows him in, the officials just do seem to snub him whenever they can, this being one of them. another is making him go to the back of the pack with a fixed car that at first did not pass inspection and yet Jeff Gordon did not he did the same thing of making parts too flexible in the rear window yet did not have to go to the back after inspection but also had to fix car to pass inspection. This was in the Almost No Downforce era when the stage racing was first introduced to NASCAR, sponsor Monster Energy admitted they wanted basically to have an event where every 10 laps or so a wreak happened an the sponsor forced the almost no downforce , the way Red Bull does with its sponsored rally events having courses for the event shaped in just a way they end up having one car do at least 25 flips in every race.
@@caseysmith544 NASCAR favors drivers. They don't like guys like Kenseth, or Bowyer, but they prefer Dale Jr and C Elliott
After having a breakout year in 2005 for Greg Biffle
He fell off a cliff in 06
And his 07 season wasn't any better making his Kansas win pretty much his only highlight of the season
2008 and 2012 were Both Good Seasons
@@DupontandLowesWarrior 2008 was definitely a bounce back year for The Biff
I wouldn't exactly say he fell off a cliff in 06 because he was extremely fast early in the season, just had horrendous luck. But as the year went on, it seemed like the results took the wind out of the 16s sails
@@ashketchumsdad 06 was a shell of 05 for the biff
@@NASCARFAN93100 i stand by my statement haha. Look at racing-reference, and how many laps he led early. By midseason, things cooled off, but it certainly wasn't a sudden drop off. Although I see why most would think it was one.
Brian France, clearly drunk out of his mind: "SHORTEN THE RACE! NO MAKE IT SHORTER! WHO TURNED ON THE LIGHTNING!?!"
they really should just do what F1 does in that case. If the race cannot finish in its full lap metric, it measures under a time metric, so 1.5 hours of racing. This way when the alarm goes down that X amount of time has now passed, thats the last lap after the leader crosses. it works p well and makes the race p tense and not confusing.
I feel like this is one race that deserves to have an asterisk beside it.
Not the only one, 1969 Talladega 500 as only 3 of the cars competing that took top 3 spots were actual Cup cars The rest of the field was only some other racers in smaller closed top US made Sports cars that raced there the day before. The strike due to trying for a racers union for better pay in the race prizes and an insurance you could buy though NASCAR caused almost all of the field to leave the race as the racers were trying for a Union during the off season and into the 1969 season with a halt to if the racers started the race with the union they were in, they would prevent the racers from racing in another NASCAR race, only 3 racers were not in that union. I did not live through the time but have seen stuff on the Drivers Union in NASCAR.
@@caseysmith544 To add to your comment, they refused to race because the track was ripping up tires due to poor pavement.
Cannot believe that even with horrible weather, the stands were filled. Insane to compare that to today.
On a side note, Hendrick choosing Casey Mears over Kyle Busch was the best thing for Kyle. He's a machine in that Gibbs #18.
Get stiff for the bifff
NASCAR really messed up this race. Honestly, even as much as I wanted to see the race go on after the rain, especially because I didn't like Tony Stewart at the time, NASCAR should've called the race and given the win to Tony Stewart. I feel that if a race is stopped for more than an hour and a half, it should be called official, or postponed.
I definitely agree with that last part. I feel like a rule that mandates that a race that has been stopped for more than an hour and a half or two hours has to be postponed or made official would have more pros than cons. I'd be totally up for it.
@@monstermikeheinrichs And honestly, I don't know what NASCAR was trying to prove by trying to buy continuing the race. Yes, fans want to see the race go the full distance, but they're not consistent with the rain calls. They've called races after 15 minutes of a rain delay, they've waited out 7+ hours. It's even more baffling whenever it's not a crown jewel race.
@@nascarfanatic2425 I'd understand waiting a long time to get the race going again if it's a crown jewel race or a championship race, but calling it after a couple of hours should be fine for all of the others. The inconsistency in general is really annoying.
2:10 That looks like NASCAR Heat 5 damage lol
"Hendrick had to choose between Busch and Casey Mears." He chose poorly.
14stockfan If you listen to Dale Jr's podcast with Rick Hendrick, you'll see that Rick never once regretted signing Jr to the team
@@zuwarkgaming I'm not referring to Jr, that was a good signing. I'm referring to the fact that he kept Mears over Busch when choosing who to get rid of to open the seat for Jr.
Hendrick didn’t want to put up with Busch’s lousy attitude.
PGOLDEN88 yeah, but he only got 1 Busch series win and 1 cup series win with Hendrick. Busch with Hendrick won 2 cup races and rookie of the year (was the youngest driver to win a cup race and get pole at the time). Then finished out at Hendrick being the first driver to win a race with the CoT, also being Hendrick’s 200th win in NASCAR. Then won a few more races in cup and truck series. And what he did after moving to JGR is history, if there wasn’t a chase and the points system NASCAR has now, he probably would be sitting with a few championships now. Mears is a good driver but never the same caliber driver as Kyle Busch
@@OffTrack Hendrick didnt lose much by letting Kyle go. He won 2 cups with JGR. After he left, Johnson won 5 championships. So from the organization view, Hendrick didnt lose much. But yes, choosing Mears instead of Kyle is just a joke.
Your videos constantly remind me how much I liked those cars and how well they raced (aero wise) around each other
Icebergs cant finish melting...
Global Warming: hello there
I am Josh Wise and I am the best driver ever.
WISE choice.... sorry bad joke
Great joke
Doge coin 🐕💰💰💰
Um, hello? I am the best driver.
*Ross Chastain, Ryan Sieg, Landon Cassill, Garrett Smithley, Parker Kliegerman, Hailee Deegan and Brett Moffitt have joined the chat*
Imagine picking Casey Mears over Kyle Busch
Good thing they did 😂😎
Every time I see the 99 I feel for Carl Edwards who one might say was so beaten down by events in NASCAR that he retired WAY to early. RIP Carl. We DO miss you.
He isnt dead no reason to say RIP
@@jaygreentree4394 RIP was referring to his driving career, not his life, because he quit before he wanted to.
Biffle did NOT deserve the win he never crossed the line under his own power
I remember picking up the edition of NASCAR Scene after that race and I was confused about what the hell happened.
Clint Bowyer should’ve had his 2nd win but NASCAR inconsistency showed up.
Was actually at this race, and it was my oldest son's first nascar race. He's 20 now, how the time flies! Was a really wild race, and I still to this day say Bowyer got robbed out of a win. Seemed like nascar did everything possible to get biffle into the winners circle for whatever reason. Can't remember if ford was doing really bad and needed the help, but they had their orders to give that win to the Biff for whatever reason. Also, that finish was really dark in person compared to the video!
Yup, I remember this. Always focus on how they screwed up Talledega in 2008, but this one was worse for sure. You cant fall that far back from the pace car and say you're maintaining, and poor Clint Bowyer still hasnt won at his home track.
Flashbacks of the 2004 Aaron's 499 finish with the race going past the red flag lap and NASCAR deciding to either finish the remaining laps under caution or attempt a GWC finish or even the 1 lap shootout.
The biggest part that gets forgotten in this story, is what calling the race early did to the points situation. It put nearly everyone more than a hundred points back and would have killed the exciting end to the season.
Those front ends on the Dodges looked so mean at that time. Miss these cars!
Me at the beginning of this video: "Hmmm...why do I not remember this race?"
Me nearing the end of the video: "Oh I remember this vividly...and now I'm pissed at NASCAR all over again."
Damn, Bowyer got the WWE treatment- Getting jobbed out at his home track.
That moment when you realize that Scott Riggs won a pole in NASCAR :O
NasWii Riggs won a few poles driving for Evernham from 06-07.
I recently just watched the 2006 coke 600 which he almost won from the pole leading late and had a pitstop mistake
Scott riggs definitely should have won a few races in his career but now his son layne is a great late model driver and my dad is on there team and they are very nice people so it would have been cool to see a win but they like to drive go carts at there track with me
Johnny Benson > Scott Riggs
@@DupontandLowesWarrior nobody is arguing that man
Huh, I bought the Winner's Circle race win Biffle car that year and never opened it. I always liked that Aflac paint job.
Clint Bowyer won this race. NASCAR has always been inconsistent, and that gave them a perfect way out after a long afternoon of racing.
I was at that race! At the time I was 11. Huge Tony Stewart fan and I was pissed they didn’t call the race, that second rain delay was awful. It was a human car wash under the grandstands, we were packed like sardines for over 4 hours! Lol anyway, Bowyer should’ve been awarded the win! Would have been the biggest of his career since it was at home! It’s cool you did a video of my home track!
Yea. I'm probably just saying this because Greg was one of my favorite drivers but if he was trying so hard I would say they did a good thing to let him have it cause they wanted to just get the hell outta there.
Holy shit I was at this race, I was 9 but I remember the rain delay cause I'm pretty sure (in typical Kansas fashion) there was a tornado warning and my family left after trying to withstand the rain for a couple hours. The crowd was totally behind Bowyer the whole time as was I. NASCAR fans in KC were always fans of his cause he raced at Lakeside Speedway dirt track just a couple miles away from Kansas Speedway. Great video such a nostalgia trip!
Kansas has to be the most underrated track on the schedule
It honestly puts on decent races most of the time. If there's a mile and a half track worth watching, it's probably Kansas
Hi love your vids
Man I remember this race and Dale Jr.s interview like it was yesterday lol I'm old
@The Iceberg do a series where you go through a season and look and see how many wins each driver would have if the driver that lead the most laps was the car that would have won the race. Since sometimes the best car gets wrecked, has mechanical issues or whatever. It would be cool to see how different things would be. You can also see who would have won the championship by taking the driver that led the most laps and put them in first and just slide everyone else back one position in each races finishing order.
Do a video on the 2008 O'Reilly/Checker Auto Parts 500 at Phoenix. That race single handedly changed how networks now broadcast a race in its entirety no matter what
Oh man I wish I had seen this race finish. I was there and begged my dad to stay through the rain delay. Ended up watching the last bit at home
It's hard to believe that since this race, we now only have 8* tracks without lights. Chicagoland Speedway at the time had just announced they were having lights installed for their 2008 race. Kansas had lights finally installed from 2010 (outside poles) to 2011 (inside Mirtran fixtures), and Martinsville in 2017. The star after the 8 references that it would have been 7 if Kentucky (which was built with lights) had not been added to the schedule in 2011.
Think it was Matt K / Joey L (c.'15) made Martinsville get lights
This is the definition of a cluster-you-know-what race. Completely unpredictable from the weather to the running order to chase guys wrecking to cautions. So many comers and goers. Insane.
Rules are Rules. I agree with the drivers. Bowyer should have gotten the win.
It's not a "reasonable speed," it's the set pace car speed, typically about 10 mph faster than pit road speed except at tracks where that is unfeasible. By the wording of the rule, Bowyer won.
11:27 Were those boos live or were they in loop with the replay?
This was the first race I had ever been to. I would of been 8 almost 9 years old. My grandfather had accidentally bought my father and I just fanwalk passes instead of tickets. Somehow som way my father haggled our way in. All we did the majority of the race was sit down on the concrete steps on the fanwalk on turn 1. I got completely soaked from head to toe and freezing cold from the rain. We had left to go to the car twice but couldn’t find our car and pretty much got lost in the parking lot because the rain was coming down so hard. They had actually let us back into the race. I can’t remember why but they let us in. I can distinctly remember the wreck on Lap 155 and screaming “This is exactly what I’ve been waiting for!” After sitting there for hours completely drenched in water, shivering. And to top it all off, the power was off at home due to the storm and didn’t come back on until the next day.
For me, the funnest thing about this race was Robby Gordon being sponsored by Wingard, a factory I worked at for several months.
I remember leaving my house during the last red flag to play tennis. Came back just in time to see all the craziness. Back then I don't think I was as annoyed with the rule as I was with Biffle winning in general, but looking back he definitely should not have won.
Yooo I remember me and my dad loved this race at the time and my dad doesn’t give a shot about NASCAR 😂
There are, unfortunately, a lot of misunderstandings here. I've worked in this sport for quite a while in some capacity, and fans' misunderstanding of rules is painfully common, mostly because the broadcast doesn't accurately explain exactly what is in the rulebook (for example, literally any out-of-bounds violation at Daytona/Talladega, where no broadcaster has ever fully read the rule on TV, just a simplified version). First, either the track or NASCAR themselves may issue a curfew for all race activity to end and most tracks have this as a hard rule for their events. This isn't something ever mentioned because it's not relevant to the fans, and this race played out like one that was being planned out on the fly to meet a set curfew. There are also safety considerations in play, be it driver vision due to tinted visors or NASCAR's inability to actually see the racetrack well. Second, the video says "he was not under any power of his own and under NASCAR rules it meant that Biffle would be scored in fourth", but this statement also omits a key phrase in the actual rule: "Vehicles must maintain, under their own power, a reasonable speed *considering the conditions that exist on the race track*." It's this extra part of that rule that gave Biffle the win, since the track was deemed to be unfit for racing conditions and was thus given the win instead of Bowyer. Did that chain of events suck since they just cut it short without warning? ABSOLUTELY. But this was honestly what needed to be done.
I think it was pretty obvious they were ready to just get the race done and get out of there as quick as possible, that’s why they gave Biffle the win and why they changed the rule from pace car speed to “reasonable speed”.
Biffle is just making sure the brake fluids work 😉.
For real tho, Clint booyah should've gotten it in my opinion.
P.s it's Booyah
I dont know why I watched this but it was pretty cool
Felix Sabates summed up NASCAR officiating pretty well after Kyle Petty was held in the garage for several laps in a Coca Cola 600 one time:
"Go and ask NASCAR, it's Kansas up there,"
Soooo in 2008 everyone was hating on Kyle Busch because of him dumping Junior at Richmond.
But everyone seemed to forgot Junior dumping Kyle here at Kansas, before the Richmond incident, and with an interesting background.
Hmmmm.......
erico293 Jr. admitted it was his fault and what his thought process was leading up to it.
Kyle Busch always acts like he was in the right and plays the victim card. That’s why people don’t like Kyle Busch.
@@m.c.martin he admitted, but that doesn't change the fact that Junior (who was joining Hendrick next season) dumped Kyle (who was leaving Hendrick at the end of 2007), and also doesn't change the fact that in 2008 Junior fans where a bunch of hypocrytes for hating Kyle, for the same thing that Junior did to Busch
That Aflac Greg Biffle scheme is 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
Have never been a Biffle fan but looking back, yes he should have by electing to finish under caution. With the constant changes in the amount of laps they would run til, that changed everyone's pit strategy. Had they elected to go green, for a GWC finish, which is ultimately how they should have, at least one try, then yes it would be a different outcome. I look at it this way, when weather is involved, how many drivers have won that never deserved to? Think about Beuscher and his first win and a spot he didn't earn in the Chase. By no means should be have. At least by this point, Biffle had been a proven winner. He wasn't being pushed. Had he run out a lap earlier or somewhere on the back stretch, I would see this argument a bit different. But this was a product of NASCAR changing the total laps twice during the race and doing their best to make it right. It changed pit strategy for everyone. Yes, had it stayed green, he wouldn't have finished but it's one of those variables in motorsports. I'm no fan of his and still look at 07 as a yeqr under the Chase that took away from the seasons overall best driver. Either way, it is what it is now 14 years later.
We've seen far worse decisions by them. The aforementioned Pocono rain shortened race won by Beuscher is a far worse decision. I don't think any rain shortened events should count for anything more than the points earned, in other words, the "win and you're in" is out.
I’m a Tony Stewart fan and I knew this race as soon as I saw the thumbnail.
I'd yet to return to this race until now. Still feels devastating.
What is a definite fact is that Biffle did finish the race under his own power. At no point did another driver put their bumper to the back of his car on that last caution lap; he made it to the finish line using only the fuel he had in his tank. There is no rule that you must have a running engine in order for your finishing position to count. As to whether he maintained a 'reasonable' speed in the final feet to hold his position, that is a completely subjective call.
I think every rule in that book has an "at our discretion" clause
I was at this race. Dad said we had to go back to NE 3.5 hour drive after the 2nd rain delay
Clint should have been awarded the W
They should've called the race and give Tony the win. Would've saved all the chaos
Imagine if Junior was running second at that finish.
If had been then nascar would have gave the race to him now,you know how nascar let him cheat and win races.ok straight out of Hollywood now,your dad was killed in a racing accident at Daytona in February right.and then in july you his son dale jr comes back and plainly out runs ever body at the track that his dad had been killed at now,all Hollywood right and nascar letting him soup up his car and cheat to win a race just to avenge his fathers death right.stright out of a Hollywood movie now.and everybody that's got any sense and brains can see that one a mile away now right.and now he's being put into the dam nascar hall of shame for all of his cheating now,I mean wow if and body deserves it more Is kyle petty hell he's done more for nascar charity wise than anybody out there now and not because he's the kings Richard's son because he's Kyle petty the extra nice guy that when it comes down to people in need now,let it be any charity he will try to help in anyway he can and will to.but sometimes the nice guys don't always get what they deserve right!!!!!
They would’ve been extremely triggered (and this is coming from a Jr fan)
@@petebentley3156 try again but in english please
@@petebentley3156 Jesus calm down
@@petebentley3156 You're spitting incoherent word-vomit, boy.
I was thrilled when KB left Hendrick.
2:09 "if you don't like that kind of racing...just don't watch" - kyle busch
I was able to see it, I had ESPN 2, though I don't remember much, I was 5 at the time
I remember this race. I was a Stewart fan at the time and I stopped watching during the 4 hr red flag. A buddy texted me they restarted and I turned it on to see Tony crashed.
11:45 Heck no
My parents went to this race. They say that everyone there was pissed when they were leaving, but they still had a good time. I have the race win too.
This was the year before I got into NASCAR in 2008. This race tho, was definitely a Wild turn of events!!
The 2008 Kansas Finish Was Crazy
OMG I remember this. LOL
I was at this race. We left thinking it was over and i was celebrating the stewart victory all the way to the car. Only to find out he crashed out later.
Clint should've won. Greg wasn't even driving his car and falling behind at that point. Clint crossed th finish line first but i can see why Greg Biffle won. Idk if this was a rule during this time but when a caution comes out, the feild is frozen. So if Greg was leading when that happened (which he was) he would've won as he was still in first because the feild was frozen. So no matter how far back he fell, he was first place. But i think Clint should've won.
As someone who likes Biffle... Bowyer deserved the win... If him and Johnson hadn't laid back (I'm sure confused), they would've been much farther ahead... I'm actually shocked that none of the commentators said anything as he slowed and was passed.. almost like they just wanted it over
Nascars original rules use to be discussed and wrote down on napkins
8:06 Denny almost went upside down
It's okay Greg, 1 in 5 guys can't finish under their own power; you are not the only one
I thought they were going to call it when tony was in the lead and it rained as it was past halfway
Greg Biffle should *NOT* have been awarded that win... Here's why...
"However, when the leader of the race reaches the start/finish line, the next flag (caution or checkered) will end the race (although competitors are required to cross the start/finish line at pace car speed to be scored in their position at the moment of caution)."
Courtesy: Wikipedia
Yes
I was super pissed when the 5 car got wrecked. I got a lot of looks sitting there in the stands booing Jr. Biffle didn't win the race, he was out of gas and he didn't maintain a reasonable speed.