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We Made JK Rowling
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- čas přidán 25. 09. 2020
- JK Rowling has become one of the most divisive figures in popular culture today, with her transphobic beliefs now public as she uses her platform to bolster dangerous falsehoods and misconceptions about trans people. And many in the Harry Potter fandom want nothing more than to distance themselves from the entire affair. However, the fandom has had a hand in getting us to where we are right now. And I kind of need to talk about it.
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#jkrowling
As I'm sure you already know being a parent, its something parents learn quite early on. You don't tell your child "you are naughty!", "you're not a nice friend" it's very important to say "you are being naughty", you're not being a good friend, right now"
You tell someone they are something they become that person.
i wish my parents had learned that lol
We do not create our oppressors. Nor their apologists. Nor their agents. Sincerely, a Jew.
Well put, your comment is as incisive as your face is beautiful.
@@cityman2312 hey women on the internet aren't usually looking for those kind of comments on their serious points
First they came for the goblins, but I was not a "goblin" so "she didn't mean it like that". Then they came for the house elves, but I was not a "house elf" so "she didn't mean it like that". Then she stopped using metaphores
Brutal adaptation of that poem. And so true
Well said sir, with a hat tip to the original.
A much better use of that poem than the one Game of Thrones tried to do.
Very much this. Could see my ancestors in the house elves so came for her. Was surprised years later when others joined in. No to dogpiling but group support does make the work easier.
@@CJCroen1393 how did that one go? o.o
I think there's a third element here too: we didn't only shield her from the negative criticism, we also bombarded her with positive praise. A lot of people who read her books at a young age attribute their morals and their interest in activism to her books -- and because of that built her up to be this awe-inspiring hero who was always writing great books and doing great charitable work. We enabled her to cultivate a self-image as an untouchable warrior of justice -- something that becomes very dangerous very quickly when someone starts listening to terf talking points.
We probably shouldn't be surprised that the moment we criticized her she turned to the people saying "it's okay, you're not wrong, we like what you're saying" instead of listening to the criticism.
We told her she was perfect and she believed us, but everyone is imperfect and learning how to be better versions of themselves.
We didn't shield her from negative criticism. You can shield any artist from negative criticism. They will hear it. They will internalize it. What we did do was argue Rowling's rights and our own be respected. Which, I think in many ways, makes this latest debacle even worse.
Here lies a toppled God,
His fall was not a small one,
We did but build the pedastal,
A narrow and a tall one
-Dune Messiah
Comic book girl its has a Dune book club, its great
you realized that its a toppled god, once he gets up the god is pissed and will take actions.
So far so sanctimonious
How appropriate! Frank did try to warn people about charismatic people! As well as building up people to the status to the status of a manmade god.
Boy I miss usul or maud'dib....his son ...the god emperor fell hard too!
The larger point raised about the fandom "clearing the path", perfectly articulated what it's been that's stung so badly about this whole thing. I've been feeling this horrible feeling for months, I recognised that I felt personally upset but couldn't zero in on why. This was why.
Thank you for such a poignant & considerate video. I hope that you are keeping well & please stay safe xx
A beautiful poignant video I couldn't agree more x
The internet really sucks tbh
I feel the same way, Jinty M. For me, who grew up with these books (and was approximately the same ages as the central characters), the guilt of silent compliance weighs heavily on who I consider myself as a person. As problematic content/issues within the books was brought to light, I agree that it was wrong and offense, but I didn't say anything. I didn't speak out against it; and for that, I am deeply ashamed.
A long time ago, Elizabeth Gilbert (who has her own problematic aspects) gave a TED talk about "being a genius" versus the ancient idea of "having a genius." In the talk, she was mostly using this to discuss unburdening creative people from the weight of their own ego in the creative process, but I often think of it when it comes to authors like Rowling. I think it's also interesting in the context of this video discussing transphobia as a verb instead of a noun--that genius is maybe a verb instead of a noun. JK Rowling had a genius (in that she was wildly successful and changed many children's lives) that drove her work and interpreted that as herself being an infallible genius. I don't know if this is making sense, but it's what's swirling in my head right now.
Very interesting..I think many super intelligent people must have that issue , especially in today's day and age ..
I think there's something to that. JKR distilled all the elements she loved in the books she read during her childhood and poured them into the Potterverse, and the result was magical... literally. When I read the first book I was struck by how well they hooked into a child's psyche, as if she was using what she'd learned from her childhood book loves to create something sure to have commercial success.
The problem with writing kid lit by channeling your childhood is that you also transmit the prejudices from not only your own upbringing, but the prejudices of your favorite authors' as well. :-(
That definitely highlights two very different interpretations of "genius". I have always subscribed to the latter perspective - that a person can be _possessed of_ genius. It's not unlike _inspiration_ - telling a person that they have inspiration, versus that they are an inspiration, connote completely different meanings.
Astrin Ymris it’s funny, because when I read the first book (as an adult) I came to the opposite conclusion/ that she had a very reductive, sophomoric view of a child’s psyche.
Authors often reach a level of fame where no one tells them no, or really pushes back hard on their work. Which everyone needs to get better; just compare how tight the first three Harry Potter books were compared to the others. Everyone, including the author, starts to trust that the author knows what she's doing, she has the clout of her book sales behind her. And there is a danger of insulated people who have achieved a high level of success, to start believing in some pretty off-kilter ideas. We see that with movie stars all the time.
When you said about calling someone a transphobe is like saying theyre a lost cause, it reminded me of this cancel culture we see a lot of where someone drags up something from five ten years ago and it seems like people have forgotten that people can, and should be encouraged to change. But cancel culture suggests that people outright cant change and you should still attack them for something a long time ago they probably wouldnt do or say today
That's the problem I have with that stuff when decade old stuff is dug up to ruin someone or write them off. It's so ridiculous to act like things aren't very different today than they were 10 years ago is ludicrous. You can talk to ppl but about old stuff to see if their stances are the sams first maybe? We've moved a lot socially in the last 10 or so years. You should never assign malice to what may just be ignorance and all that
~🧡🦇
@Mr S Those ten year old hit jobs, like the one against James Gunn were done by the alt right.
@@BadWolf739 Not remotely all of them were from right wingers. Our side is NOT blameless here.
I have seen one example where a person was accused of being homophobic for something he said half a decade earlier, when he was still living under the influence of a conservative Christian home. But these people were so obsessed with that one ancient post that they tried to find anything else he ever said after that one misinformed homophobic comment. So they never learned about all the blogposts where over the years he apologized many times for what he had said in ignorance and talked about coming out as trans.
the right to forget..
One of my subscribers suggested I watch this video to expand on my own points of view and WOW! I'm so thankful she directed me here. Thank you for your voice and for sharing it. New subscriber!
Thanks to that viewer and I'm happy to have you here.
Insightful points. I can't say I had ever considered the issues from the perspectives you referenced. Giving it some thought, noting what you said in the video, I can't fault anything you mentioned. These are important issues. You're right. There is a distinction between what people are and how they behave. It really isn't the same thing. I appreciate you taking the time to publish this video.
Yes, but there shouldn’t be a distinction between what people believe and what they are
I think it’s important to recognize the “Monkey Typewriter” nature of the internet, that is to say anything than can be written will be written. Anything presented on a large enough platform will inevitably receive every possible type of response. My point is that JK is in my view cherry picking the most hostile responses to justify her worldview while seemingly ignoring the many - Many - polite and well supported responses that have been presented.
I don't know if I agree with the "we made her" part of the video. She was an adult long before she became famous, and her fans were mostly kids at the time. You can't fault largly kids for idolizing an older author. Her opinions are not only hers, she is mostly alone at fault.
As I remember the transphobic parts of that first detective novel that had that were largely criticized with compassion, and the wind just turned harsher, when JK doubled down on it.
I LOVE the “oppression is something you DO, not something you ARE” perspective. T1J has a good video on that as it relates to racism. Saying someone IS a racist essentializes them. It lets them get off easy. If they’re just a racist they don’t have to change. It also lets the person calling them a capital R Racist get off easy too. If they’re just a Racist, we don’t have to show them empathy or compassion that might help them see where they’re wrong, and most importantly, someone being a racist gives us license to say that they are irredeemable. In my opinion, people in positions of power, in this example white people, should be the ones both calling out other people in power who do harmful things, i.e. racist actions AND supporting their journey towards unlearning those harmful patterns of behavior. It shouldn’t be on the target group to resolve an issue they didn’t start and already suffer from!
Nobody is born racist or transphobic. It’s little actions we see and repeat and then normalize. Being anti-racist and anti-oppression is about stripping away that normalization and not defaulting to defensiveness when we’re called out. It’s interesting though as it relates to transphobia, because it so often is that defensive reaction that catalyzes a downward spiral in the transphobia turlet (see Glinner being called out for an old bad taste joke and pivoting to make his whole identity about hating trans people (trans women esp)). We do need to be better about not dog piling, but I think the most important thing is that people in positions of privilege and power-big or small, whether ur a millionaire or a just white person-need to kill that defensive reaction. We have too much focus and power already, and to be defensive is to refocus more attention back on our hurt feelings and not others’ hurt bodies and minds and existances. Our pride is not worth the validity and safety of others’ lives.
Nobody is born racist or transphobic.
You've Got to Be Carefully Taught (Pacific South)
Beautifully, beautifully said.
@@legalfictionnaturalfact3969 nobody is saying that trans people (there are trans men too ya know. It’s not all MtF so how do you account for that LMAO) are oppressed by women. It matters that this specific woman has massive amounts of influence and power and is spreading rhetoric that leads to trans people being discriminated and killed. Oppression is prejudice that is supported by power. You can not deny that Rowling has power in our society (her wealth, her huge platform). You also can’t deny that she has prejudice against trans people. I am not-and I don’t think anybody else is-arguing that Rowling is the cause of all the oppression trans people face. I’m just saying she is contributing to it and having a harmful effect on real people’s lives. That’s literally one of the main points of my original comment. Please, I encourage you to just be a bit more open and try to engage with actual trans people and hear what they have to say. Because the strawman argument you’re presenting, that trans people are oppressed just because cis women say they aren’t really trans, is not something anyone who supports trans people’s rights to exist actually believes. It’s not the cause of all oppression, it’s a symptom of a greater issues: a society that is systemically set up to disadvantage and harm marginalized groups like trans people. So before you come at me or any other trans person or ally, you might actually want to understand what it is we actually believe. Argue against that if you must argue. I just hope you understand how silly it looks from my perspective for you to point to something I never actually said and use that as your argument. Have a nice day, I really hope you grow and learn how to be more compassionate and thoughtful
@@legalfictionnaturalfact3969 be gone, terf
Yeah, Glinner the Transphobia Golem
I think the way you put it (the whole thing of not making transfobia something you ARE, but something you DO) is actually much healthier, and all this time I had tried to refrain from thinking that way bc I read a lot of ppl saying that was too passive for the damage done, but I feel it makes much more sense to me now
Just discovered JK writes as an obviously intended male author for her detective books. So she is happy to be perceived as a male if it sells books!
second point is much stronger than the first point. I think trying to police criticism is a loosing battle, its inherently impossible to control criticism from others, and Rowling is very seemingly dedicated to the project of ignoring the well thought out criticism and only elevating the worse. It also ignores the British's media's role in shaping her perspective on the issue. I think on some level you are right, but there really is nothing anyone can do, people feel betrayed and they are lashing out, I also think the people she is listening to are doing a ton more to reinforce her viewpoints than the criticism. The second point is excellent, Harry Potter as a fandom has a hard time listening to outsider criticism of the narrative and was willing to dismiss those points to maintain the innocent enjoyment of the series.
How exactly did the British media shape her perspective? Please elaborate
Gaby George based on my understanding, outlets like the British outlets Guardian and the post have been demagoguing the topic over and over again. It’s very likely contributing to developing her position
@@GabyGeorge1996 czcams.com/video/91_5OOmK1TQ/video.html This video is very thorough on this topic.
And now "I stand with JK Rowling" is largely coming from people who think her words are correct, or at least don't care. There's at least one "radical feminist" shop she's promoted where you can get merch to that effect, no wonder she'd be drawn in more. It's not just that she's getting hate, she's getting love on the other side.
Yeah... I saw that shop she boosted. It's reached a point where all of her public interactions somehow tie into all of this. It's not just that she's chosen to express transphobia... it's that of late she seems virtually incapable of expressing anything else.
@@CouncilofGeeks I think ou might be right on that. It seems like now she is doing it intentionally to draw the ire of the trans community. But like you said, if you call someone something they get defensive even if its not saying "you are, but you are acting like, or you are doing" but I also think, she saw how well her book went over, she sees how well HP is still selling on amazon, Audible, etc and I think maybe she wants her name out there.
@@NrMl1402 I disagree. While I do agree Trans people are no different than Cis they should be able to be portrayed as good or bad or the multitude of shades of grey between.
Most of the people screaming that you can't say a mean thing about a trans person are not Trans people, they are the white knight "allies" who use trans people as a shield to attack others with impunity which I detest so much.
I believe trans rights are human rights and yeah no trans person should have to live in fear of being attacked or killed because they are being who they feel they are. I can't say who they are because I can't possibly be in their heads so I must only go off what they say they are.
I do think that people saying "She is encouraging attacks on trans people, or is trying to destroy the trans community" are full of it, she is not calling for attacks or trying to dismantle the community. That is hyperbole which is all the internet is anymore.
@@almightykue3914 I don't think she's *trying* to "encourage attacks on trans people, or is trying to destroy the trans community". But that doesn't change the fact that she's doing serious damage. Her words have emboldened radical anti trans groups which does result in increase trans violence. Her words have been used before legal bodies to support anti trans laws which damages our community. Whether she meant it to be so damaging or not is mostly immaterial at this point. The damage is done, accidental or on purpose, it's still damage.
@@BadWolf739 Unfortunately the trans community online come off as super easily offended. Again this isn't even because of trans people who make up that community its their "allies" that are the ones doing all the attacking and screaming and making the Trans community look like whiny assholes who think they are the center of attention. Which for the record I know is not true.
If someone where to make a comment about ovarian cancer or cysts effecting CIS women while 90% of the trans community will totally understand why its talking about CIS women and not All Women, you will get those "allies" that will jump on the person for not including Trans people in the comment. It makes the community look like they are very much seeking praise and validation at all times.
You definitely have some great points. I'm totally behind the idea of "this thing you did was ..." as opposed to "you are ..." it is easier to correct specific issues than vague generalities. I know which one I'd rather have directed at myself.
Patreon supporters had early access. Some left comments. Please stop spamming those comments.
I'm not sure how much it will help. In my experience we're at the point where people will take it as a personal attack applying to their whole self even if you phrase it that way. I don't know what can be done at that point.
@@lexihopes I was going to make the same comment.
@@lexihopes some people will. They are so stuck in their ideologies, they cannot allow themselves to change. But some will respond better, and I'd rather help a few people understand than anger every last one of them. I was one of those people at one point.
@@lexihopes It’s a big problem in our society right now, at least in the US. So. Many. People. live in a worldview that is fundamentally essentialist. It’s not just when the “-isms” and “-phobias” are in play. They don’t talk about “people who have committed crimes”; they talk about “criminals”. It’s a core tenet of conservative ideology, and is why they are generally more supportive of harsher penalties for transgressions-because the people who commit crimes aren’t like you and me, but made a bad choice; they are fundamentally different people, at their core.
It’s also why you see so much push back against the idea that impact > intent, because if you are a moral essentialist that’s just nonsense. If your intent was good, then you did nothing wrong. Irrespective of the impact it had on other people. It’s also a big part of why many people don’t believe that systemic racism is a thing: in an essentialist worldview, you are what you do, so if you don’t /intend/ to be racist but someone says you did something racist, either you really are a racist-as a fundamental, inalterable part of your core-or you aren’t a racist, in which case whatever you did also wasn’t racist. Unsurprisingly, most people who don’t /intend/ to be racist reject the possibility that their core essence is “racist”. And, in an essentiallist philosophy, that means they also have to reject the idea that the action was racist.
I don’t know a good way out of this. I think that Council of Geeks is right that we can do better to make sure we talk in terms of actions, not labels. But I’m not sure that will matter, since most of this is happening entirely in the heads of the people we’re trying to talk to-it’s not actually about what is being said to them. It’s that they have a worldview where it is not possible to do evil without being, at your core, intentionally evil.
Once again, a voice of reason in the wilderness. Some very interesting, and entirely valid points.
As a Patreon supporter, Ace had early access to this video. So, you know, they have basis for comment.
Yes there's a link under "Support"
Yes, it makes me think of Brene Brown's work on shame/guilt and vulnerability: her take is... shame = I AM bad, guilt = I DID something bad.
Everyone on this planet is human (that I know of at least), and 99.999% are redeemable even if we do some really sh*tty things.
I just recently found this channel, but I'm so glad i did! Thank you for all of the content you make, and have a great day!!!!!
Somewhere between book 3 and 4 she started believing all the hype people had built up about her, that she was some kind of wunderkind, uber-writer creating some great seminal work of fiction. And we are absolutely to blame for that, because we're the ones that kept telling her how wonderful she was. On another note, I think that dogpiling on people on the internet is just kind of a way to avoid actually having to do something to change things. As if making a nasty Tweet or Facebook post about someone is going to solve transphobia or racism etc. Cancel culture at it's most toxic just feels like a combination of virtue signalling and schadenfreude.
I always thought her writing was crap. I can see what kids saw in it but I really don’t know how adults could call it genius or whatever. Satenmadpun made an excellent video pointing the flaws in her storytelling and some of them are quite egregious.
Edit: I just got to the spot where our host is making some of the same points.
I’m not sure if the fans are responsible for that or it was her handlers, publicity agents and publishers- people she knew and trusted, who inflated her ego regarding her writing skills. You don’t want a cash cow to be anything but completely convinced that they are geniuses who owe it to the world to keep on pumping out product. In that sense, Rowling is more like a Hollywood super-star than any other writer in history
This sounds a lot like "victim blaming" to me. Like I get that's nuanced but some of your arguments are one step away from "you were fine with this problematic thing before, so why not this?" Obviously not having the "why not this" part, but this feels like putting the onus on people who were mostly kids for not calling out JK problematic characterizations beforehand.
I also question the argument that fans insulated her from criticism starting with the "fundamentalists christians thought this was gateway to Satanism" part because those fundamentalists were actually speaking nonsense.
Ultimately, the latest JK stuff isn't a first time offense. At some point, after years of being gently told her acts are transphobic, some of us, maybe a lot of us, hit a breaking point with her. This is topped with her more overt, less transparent racism that we can now connect was always in the DNA of the Harry Potter series which she has not toned down at all (I had no idea about the jazz house elves, holy shit). It was pretty clear that JK had a lot of problematic views from before HP was written and while she has tried to coat these beliefs in more palatable terms, probably in response to some criticism, its just become more and more apparent that these are a part of her person. She is transphobic. She can stop, but we have gotten to the point where it feels like she doesn't really think about much else. To use your analogy, that sorta friend may act like an asshole, but given enough time without change, its eventually clear that the person IS just an asshole
We are entering an age of accountability (hopefully), and an unpleasant part of that is having to spend the time and energy looking at our own faults and failings and putting in the work to do better. Asking others to be held accountable for their words and actions without taking a good look at ourselves is not justice, it's the short path to bullying. We can't forget that the ideal of this age of accountability is to put an end to oppression, not to become the oppressors ourselves; and in order to do that, we can't skip the *essential* step of being accountable to ourselves too. Thanks for leading us through this moment of reflection, Vera. You're a gem, and we love you too.
I agree, that episode of the Orville where they go to the planet where up votes and down votes denote if you are Lobotomized or not is kind of terrifying because it shows just how easy it is to dehumanize and not look at what you are doing as well
Just find those who agree with you and you'll never feel challenged
No.
Because human nature. There is no scenario where people will never not want to be jerks to each other. It's one of the species' greatest joys. If you deny the ability to be awful to each other? They're going to make it their mission to be atrocious. And they will do it all in the name of getting back their freedom to look down and make sport of those who can't hack it in the system that's been set up.
And a part of those kinds of aggressive online responses comes from the unfortunate way the internet can be so reactionary and hyperbic.
This is 100% true, Twitter especially, it revves people up to the point where hyperbole rules and things like nuance and civil discourse is just not allowed. It promotes the "Ist or Ism" slinging to dehumanize the person you disagree with and completely shut down arguments as invalid because "you're an X so I don't need to listen to you"
Absolutely. The internet, as a whole, is really really stupid, and can only start movements in the most extreme direction, basically
I know you mean well and it seems like you're really hurting with this topic, but I don't think I agree. She was always this person, whether her fanbase is coddling her or objecting to her views. I hate to twist the thumbscrews, but you have to remember there are fans that agree with her views or just don't care and like HP. I feel like this is a culling of her fanbase that she would have always been fine with, push just never came to shove before. We didn't make her into the kind of person that does this.
Exactly, I feel like the beliefs were always there. We just didn't know enough yet as kids to see them for what they were. I mean her other pen name is a well known gay conversion therapist. Plus, I've seen other people point out that she has liked tweets supporting conversion therapy LGB youth. It's not just the trans community that she has gone after. If you dig deeper the Essence of Thought channel did a good video on this topic. I do agree with the whole Transphobia binging something you do and not something you are.
although to be fair a lot of "i stand with jk Rowling" people are were not her fans and honestly i would say are still not fans of her writing.
I hope to make a comment without offending anyone here. It is hard not to these days. And i welcome comments.
Recently a trans woman wanted to compete in the female weight lifting class even though she was born a male (technically)
The problem is we can't deny that men are inherently stronger than women and letting a man who identifies as a women compete against women would not be fair?
But then what? Do we create sub categories?
As a victim of sexual assult in a bathroom (a man followed me in) i would feel uncomfortable sharing a changeroom or bathroom with a man. I feel i could hold my own against a woman or someone with xx chromosomes but not a man with xy chromosomes as i found out.
I think this is what JK rowking was getting at. That there are some lines that we need to adress that just are.
I think her books inherently preach tolerance and i believe her motives to be good.
Idk buddy, us BIPOC fans have been trying to warn you all for a while.
I know. And I'm sorry for anytime in my life I ever downplayed what was brought up.
@@CouncilofGeeks appreciate this, thank you.
Despite the disclaimer at the start, this still feels a lot like: "Maybe [marginalized group] should calm down and watch their tone and then people wouldn't become even bigger bigots towards them."
I get where you're coming from and think you make a lot of good points (bigotry is something you do rather than something you are), but they're points that I agree with in a vacuum, divorced from the discussion of any specific individual.
It just seems like...this is theory without praxis. Realistically speaking, we're never going to get enough people to respond calmly and patiently to their own oppression for this to work, and it isn't morally right to ask or expect the members of our community to even do that in the first place. And even if we somehow did, I _really_ don't think it would work often enough to be worth that sort of commitment.
I think a more practical approach would be to continue focusing on getting better representation and education out there as a whole, so people don't _have_ the excuse of simply not knowing better to hide behind. I'm not going to say that's going to cure everything, but I think it at least has a chance of working, unlike an extreme theoretical like "Maybe if every member of our marginalized group was just more patient."
_I'm_ patient, but I also have a lot more privileges than many others in the trans community, and I'm sure as heck not going to push the standards I put on myself onto them.
I'm not sure if I'm sad or happy to see a comment communicating what I tried in mine, but better than I had.
I think the video is less about a question of blame and more a question of what is the best way to achieve a goal.
@@cordobes those aren't the only forms of oppression that exist, but I suspect you know that.
@Hans Hanzo It wasn't just a male pen name. The specific name in question is the name of a doctor from the 50s who pioneered conversion therapy. Yes, she published a book under the name of the man who invented torturing LGBT people until they conformed to social norms.
i would say i view her in an opposite way
she WAS committing transphobia a few years ago but now she's actively being transphobic & even trying to make it her brand
it's like how linehan did do something transphobic with that episode but then just made it his brand
like, once you commit to being a jerk to trans people, you're no longer just being transphobic, you're just being a transphobe
i would also go as far to say a lot of transphobic people targeted her to basically groom her to this point because she would be & currently is one of the biggest, loudest, most influential transphobes in the world
it just sucks
That’s a good way to see it. Saying someone is transphobic is giving them an adjective, that’s why instead of saying you’re being an asshole, say you’re being rude. Rude and transphobic are both adjectives used to describe nouns. A transphobic person is someone who commits transphobic acts
@@landlighterfirestar5550 a transphobic person is someone who may commit transphobic acts on purpose or more often by accident through ignorance; a transphobe is someone who dedicates time & actively tries to harm trans people for whatever justification they think is excusable, no matter how much education they've received, no matter how many second chances they get.
rowling is no longer just transphobic but has become an active transphobe, that's how i view it
@@iheartjackieyes makes total sense, and I agree
I recently listened to the audiobooks for the first time in ten years, I was surprised to find how much made me uncomfortable-the goblins, the house elves, the way Harry is always vindicated for irrational behavior, the girls’ “crazy” behavior over boys, the fat shaming description of Rita Skeeter, etc.
@Paola Ramirez If those things are metaphors, they stand for something in the real world. If you want to efend them, "it's just fiction" might be the better argument...
@@cordobes Thanks for understanding that some of us might not want to bother with "art" that goes against our principles.
Jim Dot Beep nice straw man argument, Chief
I am so glad you voiced your first point the way you did! It's what I've been saying from the beginning. If the root cause of transphobia is correlating it with mysogony and silencing women... then throwing misogynistic insults at someone to silence them is not going to change their mind. A lot of what fuels JKRs transphobia is fear (and misinformation). Being constantly attacked is just going to confirm that feeling.
I really appreciate everything you do!
When I started following your channel a few years ago, I had no real exposure to members of the trans community. While I was never antagonistic towards them, I can’t say I was particularly understanding either. I accepted them, without really validating them, if that makes sense? I figured they could do what they want, whether I really got it or not.
And then one day you took off your flat-cap to reveal your long coloured hair, and I was shocked. I didn’t expect it, and I wasn’t sure how I felt about it. But I enjoyed your content so I carried on.
I think I can safely say that without you, I wouldn’t be nearly as understanding of the trans community as I am. Seeing you be such a genuine human, and hearing what it is like for you coming to terms with your gender identity, has made all the difference to me. Please keep doing what you’re doing, because it’s positive public voices like yours that normalise the trans community to those that have little exposure, and so little opportunity to understand.
I’ve been wanting to post this comment for a while but I’m not one for sap so always hesitated, but thank you. You are beautiful, valid and loved. Keep doing what you do!
I totally agree, plus I got some great insights for my own life, too!
Adam & Barbara: I had the same experience then you. And I hope that it was the little nudge out of the door to a better understanding and vaidation of the trans community. And agree with the point about people not being formost trnsphobic, rascist (or homophobic etc.), but acting like that.
A lot of people, who are older (mid 40's and up, like me!), don't act like transphobes or rascists, because they really are, but because they don't know any better. The world nowadays is very different to the world they grew up in and that shaped their beliefs and views. So all of them have to unlearn what they learnt before. That takes some time. And places like Counsil of Geeks, where they can listen and learn.
I think a lot of the initial fury, especially from white, liberal Potterheads, was masking a sense of culpability. We had already chosen to overlook or forgive some really big problems, when she dug her heels in and we couldn't overlook it anymore it was easier to be furious than accept that we should have held her to task over a decade ago. Or two? Geez, we're getting old.
You are a tad more respectful and gentle in the language that you use with her than I am, but I love and respect you for choosing the high road. I still think there was a point when she first started down this path when the majority of her fans approached her like she would agree with them, "hey, that seems like you were agreeing with some transphobic statements! Be careful, lol." She had two distinct paths at that point, and she did not choose to appease her fans and hold her harmful beliefs out of sight.
@@cordobes what a lovely and thoughtful human you seem to be. And so intelligent! I have been shamed into reading the entire works of William Shakespeare and considering the merits of transphobia. Well done.
Correction: the jazz singer and band were goblins, not house elves
It sure got hard to tell the difference when they all became CGI.
That's what I was thinking
I thought they were fairies ngl
There was never really a public backlash in the UK to Harry Potter although one always heard stories about friends with religious parents personally banning the books/movies.
I remember some RE lessons back at school were it was discussed how some Religions believed the series promoted witch craft.
Same for Australia, really.
I remember even the news readers mocking the book burnings happening in the US. Subtly of course. But you could tell they were trying to keep a straight face for the cameras lol
When the Potter boom happened the music studio I got my first job in as a weekend helper (teenage jobs) held summer events to learn music. One of those events was a Potter themed weekend. During that weekend the religious parent of one of the studios regular students shouted bible verse down the intercom that would let people in as she thought the music teachers were using it as an exscuse to teach witchcraft and satanism. That's the closest I came to the UK backlash.
I'm not sure that she thinks that she doesn't need to listen. I think that she does listen yet disagrees. She has a very different perspective. One of the problems as I see it is that there isn't much space in the conversation to disagree in good faith, without casting judgements.
I feel like we on the Left keep having this conversation... not about JK Rowling, but about tone policing in general. In every political struggle and social movement whether it's about race, gender, sex, economic/political class, this is always part of the plea from those more gentle souls. "Maybe if some of us didn't act so mean and angry about [fill in the blank], they would be more understanding."
There is some truth to that, but the fact that this comes up with every issues based movement indicates that this is bigger than being mad at JKR, and it's also a sort of self-internalised "blame the victim" idea. It's one thing to say, "Let's dial down the rhetoric", and another thing entirely to give even an iota of credence to the idea that we ("SJW's") contributed negatively to where we are today, whether it's regarding with race relations in America, or to where we are between Trans folk and JKR.
You might as well just say, "JKR is understandably defensive, but we shouldn't be defensive about perceived slights if we want to be understood and accepted." That's what African Americans and women in particular have always had to deal with.
But it's really all on the other side. Yes, reactionaries and JKR have a habit of defensively doubling down on being wrong--and yes, that's a human flaw in general, agreed--but that's not what I mean.
What I mean is that some of us (including me) have been giving JK Rowling *too much* benefit of the doubt, as if JK Rowling only recently became more Transphobic because Trans folk "over-reacted" to her Twitter activity. But her history says otherwise, judging by her Cormoran Strike novels which indicate that her strong views of "men in dresses" or, apparently sometimes "gay men in dresses" existed prior to her tipping of her hand.
And it's not just the characters and themes ("men in dresses are dangerous") in her books, choosing the name of a pioneer of Gay Conversion Therapy as her pseudonym under which she writes the Cormoran Strike series also gives you an idea of where her head is at... which is to say, hopelessly muddled on the topics of sex, gender, and sexuality due to her attachment to outmoded, reactionary views of sex and gender.
JKRowling: Many, myself included, believe we are watching a new kind of conversion therapy for young gay people...
twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1279756114981240834
I honestly don't want to cancel JKR, because she has been reasonably good on many issues (and I think the anti-bigotry themes in Harry Potter series do reflects her overall values), but it's really hard for me to not to take her bigotry against Trans folk personally.
We have as much right as she does--more so, even--to be defensive when we come under attack from Liberals who enable the Ben Shapiros and Jordan Petersons of the world.
PS: I disagree with you about Goblins--they have *always* been associated with pointy or hooked noses and greed. That's not on mythology, not on her.
I also disagree about your take on the House-Elf situation. It is made *explicit* in the books that Hermione is correct, and that everyone else was wrong. *Dumbledore himself* validated Hermione's view that the House Elves were enslaved and brainwashed to be happy in their slavery. ... And yes, of course it's connected to the African American experience. House Elves = House Slaves... And, to whatever degree that it may or may not be true, the cultural narrative is that House Slaves defended their masters, often including from other slaves--that they were "brainwashed" collaborationists in their own enslavement.
The transphobia being something you do rather than something you are is a view I’ve been holding for a while now. It was interesting hearing someone else explain it. Thank you.
It can be, and usually is, both, though
Just find people who accept that lifestyle instead of trying to change the majority of people
Excuse me, Rowling's new book is about WHAT?
Its a thriller where the killer wears a wig and a woman's coat to get close to his victims. It is stated he is a CIS white male so its just weird but I mean I don't know if wearing a ladies coat and a wig makes someone "A man in a dress" but not really my call, I don't see it but thats a personal observation
It's not. The novel's an enormous, sprawling story in w which Strike & Ellacott investigate a 40 year old closed case, and one suspect was a serial killer who was known for wearing a woman's coat and wig to trick victims. It is not the main narrative.
@@David-le2kr It's still not a good look when Rowling's main argument for her transphobia was "omg but men will dress up like women and invade women's spaces to hurt them".
Speaking of the House Elves in the Fantastic Beasts films, they also introduced a woman who was "half-House Elf" and the horrifying implications that this concept comes with aren't, to my knowledge, brought up.
love potion are sold to children and laughed about. Rowling has an unfortunate relationship with consent
In the UK the push back initially came from intelligentsia in small part.
The religious focus was much more orientated on Philip Pullman's 'His Dark Materials' trilogy which was a 'God is dead' responce to C S Lewis's Narnia books.
Another thing fandom also does, with her and many others, is to raise them to the level of a paragon. We put them on pedestals and feel that they represent us and stand for us and have the same views we do. And they rarely do. Heros often have feet of clay, make mistakes, have bad days, or have only shown us the parts of their personalities or lives that are marketable.
This doesn't go against any of your points but I don't think it's entirely true to say SPEW never gets vindicated.
First of all, Hermione is constantly shown as the clever and educated one, so I don't think we are meant to see Harry as always more right than her just because he's the protagonist.
Secondly we get multiple reliable characters (Dumbledore in 5 and Hermione in 7) who make an overt and direct link between cruelty to house elves and a violent end because of it (Sirius and Voldemort). Harry's improved behaviour to Kreacher (yes he keeps him as a Servant, I'm not saying it's great, just making one correction to one related point) helps him in his quest and Kreacher's happiness leads the hogwarts elves into reinforcing the hogwarts defenders, which has a big impact on breaking the Death Eaters. This also goes into a larger theme about bad people sewing their own destruction, as Voldemort did with Harry, Neville, etc.
3/ Dobby. His relationship with the Malford and Harry are another example of how goodness is rewarded and cruelry punished as he saves Harry and the others and basically wrecks his erstwhile employer's home.
4/ Both Harry and Ron do become better thanks to Hermione, and they specifically become better towards house-elves because of her. No the world isn't fixed but I for one never saw Hermione's quest as laughable or wrong. Just one of many examples of Harry and Hermione being different people with different vertues.
I completely agree. It ties into Brene Brown and her research on shame. If you shame someone, which is an intense emotion, they will not respond kindly. If we can change the narrative towards actions rather than the person themselves and welcome them in that change, they may actually be willing to change and become a friend and ally. It wont always work, and accountability is important. But we humans don't do well with rejection, and literally cancelling someone can tap into that feeling. I don't mean we shouldn't be aware of people and not support creators that are problematic, but we also need to not be a pitchfork screaming group at every mistake or else the message becomes lost when tuned out. We can come across as looking for blood and victims, rather than just trying to educate and push for more inclusivity. Personally my feelings are intense about when people are hateful or not caring, so I try not to engage in the discord when I feel I won't be very helpful in creating a learning environment.
Also, other species in fantasy tend to be racially coded in a lot, so I never specifically thought this was a fault of just her writing. But oooooof I did not know about the jazz club house elf. Just... even if you thought it was an innocent idea you didn't think through, you have already been criticized for it in the past. A little self awareness, Jo. Seriously. Tf.
I do believe that all people can be better, but that doesn't mean that what they are (or what they were) is any less bigoted right now. I believe JKR IS transphobic. She wasn't always, as no one is born into hatred, and (while unlikely) she doesn't have to remain transphobic.
There is a line between doing transphobic things and being transphobic. I don't know where exactly the line is, but after repeated transphobic acts, and NO action made to do or be better, she is well past it.
Want to gently state that “drinking the kool-aid” is a reference to a horrific incident where a cult leader forcibly poisoned his followers using an off brand kool-aid drink. Most people who drank it did so under duress or did not know they were being poisoned. We say that phrase casually to mean buying into something questionable but truly, it refers to people who were horrifically poisoned under duress or false pretenses.
ironically, it was mostly black people who bought into it because of his antiwhite narratives. there's hours of audio from jonestown available online and it basically sounds like a critical theory cult.
Yes this is true. But there's more to it to that. He had them drink Kool-Aid at many gathering as some kind of group activity and made mentions of it could be poisoned and things of the like so drinking the drink was a show of loyalty trust and allegiance to both the group and Jones especially. To not partake would be considered an afront to the leader and a show of distrust. (When it finally was poisoned he was about to finally be brought in and an end put into it etc) then there was a 2nd group who knowingly drank poisioned Kool-Aid to die together at a specific time in line with their beliefs. So when people say drink the koolaid it's not causualy disregarding these deaths it's short hand for going along with the group full force. Because that is how it was used in practice was as a trust exercise before the death. So when the phrase is used in the right way that is it's meaning.
~🧡🦇
I'm a huge Harry Potter fan. Being a huge Harry Potter fan does not necessarily make one a JK Rowling. I defended Rowling until she became blatant. At that point, I was crushed to find that she had truly did believe and intend her comments to be hateful. I'm never giving up the wizarding world, but that world no longer belongs to Rowling alone. I'm not giving it back. That world was accepting and safe and kind, and the idea that that world is no longer open to everyone hurts me deeply.
I've actually brought this up several times in the last few months, and I was met with... Not so friendly responses. That's okay. Before I go ahead, I want to be clear, these opinions are not acceptable, and you are not expected to stay quiet. You are absolutely right for correcting misinformation, and the idea that trans men at plotting to use their role to hurt women is misinformed. It has not been a problem in all these years since sexual reassignment became a more common occurrence, and in effect, encouraged trans people to live as the sex of their preference, and I don't make that comment without research. This is a fact.
If Rowling is being truthful, and she did receive hate mail and death threats, then I understand on some level why she did her heels in. If that was the response I was met with even if it was not my intention at that time, I might more firmly believe that there was a considerable threat from that group that was represented. I don't think I would do so consciously, but I'm human. We have to speak in a language others can hear. Death threats are not ever a language anyone can hear.
Before I start to ramble, I want to just say that this video is amazing because it can be heard by everyone, and it does so with a full understanding of the effect both sides have had on each other. This video illustrates that the trans community is not volatile. It shows a level of kindness and an ability to take responsibility even when that responsibility is minor or the interpretation still rests on the other party.
Lastly, I want to say that as a 43 year old cis woman, we are still learning. We haven't lived our lives with these terms and truths. I appreciate your patience as we do that.
To be somewhat fair, I would say that isn't so much a reflection on Rowling, but rather, a reflection in part on society, minorities are minorities because they make up a significantly smaller portion of the population, and of casting directors etc. After all, many of the characters in the Wizarding World aren't defined by skin color in the books. There are some, and I think the Patels were intended to represent the considerable number of Indian citizens in the UK, but for a lot of the smaller characters, even characters like Goyle, color never comes up. (I'm going back memory btw). With wizarding schools scattered across the world, Hogwarts would really only be representative of the UK, and it's been so long since I've been or looked at the statistical data, I would feel uncomfortable even guessing at the makeup of society there today.
Free speech is great. However, you must also acknowledge there are consequences to what you say and take criticism for your ideas. JKR likes free speech - but is not too keen on taking responsibility for her thoughts.
OK, thought-police
My first thought after turning on the video was - Oh, that's how a unicorn in human form must look like.
After listening to you, I must add - a wise and lovable unicorn.
Thank you for sharing this opinion and point of view.
Some commenters are saying this sounds like victim blaming. I don't agree; I don't think that's the intention. I don't think the point of this vid is to make each individual at fan sit at home and slap their own wrists for wrongdoing. I think this video is getting at the idea that the fanbase made some mistakes *collectively,* which is a difficult concept to wrap our heads around because it's such a new concept and has only arisen in recent decades.
As a fanbase, we were forced to deal with those previous problematic aspects (house elves, goblins, etc) not as nuanced cultural critique/discussion, but as a loyalties war. Why? Because in this age of internet culture and global capitalism and the commodification of EVERYTHING, when our reliance on something we love is threatened, we are forced into one of two positions: blanket defend it, or dispose of it. And some brave people do try to erect a middle ground, but such nuanced stances are not profitable to the franchise and are subsumed by the much more lucrative game of "which side are you on?" *
So yes, of course lots of us defended her in the past, but I believe it's not completely on the individual-it's the system that's the problem.
*And as a disclaimer, I'm not saying her current transphobic actions deserve nuanced discussion. They're trash and they f*cking don't. But if loyalty wars had not been the norm from the start-if we, as a fanbase, had had space to normalize open deliberation with jkr on the earlier problematic aspects of her stories rather than go on the defensive-I feel that her fanbase might have been able to nip her transphobic tendencies in the bud, from the very first sign of them. She might've been more open to hearing it. But the system isn't designed for that.
i do agree with the point you make about the way we educate people about oppression and prejudice, but i do also think that most of the time people like jk rowling or william shatner are more focused on a few hateful comments rather than all the educational stuff people send their way.
i really believe that from an effective or even practical standpoint we should be didactic and patient in our activism, so we can reach more people, but i also understand that sometimes someone who's been repressed and oppressed their whole lives for being who they are, are just not up for being educational and they just wanna clap back at those who've been oppressing them.
and because these discussions on the internet always get misinterpreted by someone, i'm not disagreeing with any points made in this video, i'm just frustrated with the fact that it's always the ones that are at the bottom who have to be calm and understanding with the ones that are on the top.
You can't educate people that do not want to learn. You can only make them aware of something and they may absorb it and internalize it.
This is the problem with a lot of "twitter activism" today, the idea of educating others or asking people to educate themselves.
It is not about education, it is about (self) awareness.
In German we say that people do prejudice, not that they are prejudice. As an American learning German here in Berlin, I can only agree vehemently with your position that the language we use to frame the discussion is a large part of the problem.
Fantastic video, it's given me lots to think about. Like you, I had a part in - if not defending JKR in the past, then at the very least willfully ignoring the many issues with her work.
I do understand what you're saying, and in many ways you're right, but I don't think the fandom should feel guilty about their early defence of Rowling. I'm also a writer, and, until I became a moderator on an online writing community website, I held the belief that no 'real' writer could possibly have awful views, or be an awful person. Surely, by nature of what you do, you have to have a certain, higher level of understanding of the world and human nature, which would render it impossible to be bigoted and intolerant? Yeah, I was pretty naive back then. 🙂 I've since lost a lot of that innocence, and had to accept that some of the most amazing writing I've ever read can be written by people so toxic I wouldn't want to spend five minutes in their company in real life.
But if I, as a writer myself, was once that innocent and optimistic, I can see why devoted readers would also feel that way about those who write the stories they fell in love with. We want to believe writers put who they really are as people straight onto the page, clearly and unambiguously, in everything they write. Many do - but just as many don't. It's a bitter pill to swallow, unfortunately.
I was raised in a Christian cult and at first, I was forbidden from reading the HP books but then I borrowed a copy and read anyway. It didn't take long for my parents to find out but reasoning that it's fiction and pointing out that my brother gets to read fantasy books worked and they let me.
It was a big personal win for me and Rowling's recent actions have hurt me and my gender-questioning butt.
Being a literal child, I didn't notice the problematic parts of the story.
Returning to this comments section again, since it's kiiiiiinda relevant again now, to say that this kinda thing is exactly why I don't like all the "Just stan Rick Riordan! He's the GOOD YA author! Put HIM on the pedestal instead!" or "We're so glad we never got into HP! Percy Jackson is CLEARLY superior because it's creator isn't a bigot and we'll worship and praise him instead!" Like, all that's gonna do is create another Rowling situation.
I just went to Audible and found out all of Rowling's books on their best sellers list. Including the new one. There's a big sale going on so that's probably why, but it still bummed me out
Why? See I have an issue with people saying "Well the book is X" and when you ask "Have you actually read it?" they say no. Its judging a book off someone elses option because you don't want to read it normally. For example the new book's killer uses a wig and a coat to get near women, or a costume to escape custody. That is different than "A man in a dress kills women" because well its not someone who is a cross dresser or trying to make the cops think its a cross dresser. Its a disguise, no different than any other disguise by a bad guy in history. Not sure why that suddenly becomes an issue. Is there an issue with total recall were Arnie was dressed as a woman?
Almighty Kue no, you just don’t get the criticism; Its the rational fear of straight cis men in dresses in order to enter women’s spaces to harm them that terfs use to justify oppressing trans people
@@hexum7 So crossdressers don't exist? Well I hate to tell you this but a man dressed as a woman doesn't make them trans or listen to the trans community.
A man wearing a burqa to evade police, is not a trans person. Anyone with half a brain, stoned, and completely plastered could tell that difference.
The trans community are falling for a simple bait. The trans community was gonna call anything she produced transphobic, regardless of what it was. She hit them with a pretty solid trolling.
Because the trans community have said forever now that a man in a dress is not a trans woman, or more accurately a trans woman is not a man in a dress. So she wrote about a CIS male in a dress, and the trans communities attack dogs fell head first into that pit screaming that it is transphobic.
How can it be transphobic if there is not trans people in the story? "Well clearly she is writing this person coded as trans" is an answer you see, but the character is explicitly called CIS over and over.
So what she got them to do was make themselves look stupid. Because they are calling a Man in a Dress trans, because the only way it can be transphobic, or negative or against trans people is if the person who is being shown in a negative way is trans. So yes they are all saying Trans Woman are men in dresses, and that is transphobic.
Rowling is problematic in her tone choices of words. The fact that she does seem to have a fear of trans woman as a man can easily stem from a sexual assault in her past (which she has admitted to). Now look at the sexual assault threats made to Rowling by some of this horrible attack dogs (sure it might have only been or two, I still denounce all such threats) do you wonder why Rowling or any survivor would see the trans community as hostile, mean, and not to be listened too?
You make your point very well. As much as the current situation sucks I agree that we are now seeing a downside to the “don’t listen to the haters”-mentality.
That's an interesting quote but I confess I do not understand it, what does that mean in simple English? :)
Justin Overstreet Yes, but if someone has been repeatedly told to not listen to the people who say that they think there is something wrong then that someone can fail to recognise when the people pointing it out actually have a point.
Isn’t this literally what Tyrion and Varys talked about in the last season of GoT, about how whenever Daenerys destroyed evil men, they cheered her for it, and when she turned on the innocent, they carried part of the responibility?
Season 8 is not canon, Danaerys is not a mad queen, Benioff sabotaged Dany's character to clear his slate for 'Star Wars' faster... La, la, la... I can't hearrr you... ;-D
More seriously, there is and always will be a qualitative difference between attacking oppressors and targeting innocent noncombatants. Otherwise, you're left with Trump's "good people on both sides" false equivalence. Supporting JKR against people who were literally demonizing her is different than telling her she doesn't need to heed the criticisms of people from marginalized groups who are troubled by elements of her books, and both are different from writing book which is thinly-disguised anti-trans propaganda. Just sayin'.
Astrin Ymris Of course, you’re right, all that I said was just some awful fever dream (or shall I say Fevre Dream?).
i'm super sorry, i know this is a serious video, but off topic... what brand of makeup is that. its killer! what an iconic look...
This is all really well said. It's heartbreaking. The thing that really pained me about this was, while I knew that she was not going to listen to an online dogpile (and that's what it was, even though I agree with what the dogpile was trying to tell her), I really believed that when Daniel Radcliffe wrote that letter to her, that she would listen to him. But she didn't. And I realized he's still a child to her. She still sees herself as an adult interacting with a child when he talks to her. She thinks she'll always know better than him. And now perhaps I'm projecting a little, thinking of an older woman whose friendship I walked away from, because I couldn't get through to her about some harmful conspiracy theories she was spreading.
Anyway, I think you really nailed this point. I wish I could say you're wrong. Because I don't know what anybody can do, and unfortunately, I don't think there *is* anything anybody can do. And that just sucks.
This is a great video on this topic. Both you and Jessie Gender have done some fantastic work breaking down the situation with JK Rowling. You are completely right that we contributed to this. I think about the Backfire Effect... How being told you're wrong can make you dig your heels in more, because you get defensive. And it's even worse if people are calling your horrible things, because why should you believe them, especially when there's a whole other group that has the same views as you that are telling you "you're doing great, sweetie."
I've been struggling a lot about my feelings over JK Rowling. Like I'll cross my fingers and hope she realizes how terrible these views are (although like you I won't hold my breath). Until then, I can't in good conscience support her work, either financially or even emotionally... I'm not one of these people who can go "Harry Potter has no author" because that is plainly untrue.
Did anyone see that Daniel Radcliffe said he would be willing to be involved in Harry Potter again providing JK wasn’t involved 🤣.
Daniel Radcliffe has demonstrated to be pretty based. Got mad respect for him
She is NOT a monster but a human being with emotions like you and me and everyone else on this section. We should all treat each other with compassion. We're all human beings, not enemies.
She doesn't treat people with compassion
I've been thinking lately about how much people assuming the best and brushing things under the rug for her must have done.
I remember saying something to a couple of my friends about her a few years ago, not fully damning but not holding her up on a pedestal.
They pounced on me instantly, how I could say such a thing and how wonderful she was, and I learned to not to question her in front of them because she'd been given such blind faith and they were wholly unwilling to question it.
I appreciate the nuance you are trying to bring to the conversation regarding how we treat -phobic acts. I do think at some point there has to be some line - where someone does so many asshole-y things that you have to put your foot down and say: ok, this person is not just doing asshole things, they are an asshole, and then you can say I do not wish for this to be in my life...
I do think there should always be room for a sort of redemption for such people, or at least an opportunity for a second chance... but I do think my own responsibility toward such people in regards to educating them on the subject has to have some form of line -
the person does the asshole-y thing a few time, I have a moral obligation to call them out in a friendly manner and educate them. the person does the asshole-y thing multiple times with no change or consideration of what I told them, they are ass-hole.
Also this reminds me of the canceling video that my queen contrapoints made.
We should judge an act, not the whole person. That it is.
You made the point mate
isn't a person their acts?
At the end of the day she is hurting people, she has been told she is hurting people, she has been begged to stop, and she has not only refused but doubled down. Whether or not she is transphobic in her heart doesn't really matter, best case she's wilfully ignoring the damage she's doing to vulnerable human beings, worst case she's deliberately attacking them. either way she's an awful human being, whether that be our fault for coddling her or her own for being so twisted inside.
In any case thank you for the video, your thoughts and eloquence are always really good to hear.
I may be hurting the feelings of Christians when I stand in opposition to their attempts to teach Christianity at public schools. They can beg me to stop and tell me it offends them, but I will double down and insist they are wrong to want to do that. Does this make me a twisted and awful human being?
No, I have that position for a good reason, and it is not evil to hold that position even when it hurts the feelings of Christians.
The same is true for why I support women's rights, and I will not stop supporting women's rights when trans people tell me it hurts their feelings. Biological females with XX chromosomes deserve their own sports leagues, and it is unfair to deny them this. Teenage girls should not be told they have to change clothes in gym class in front of members of the opposite biological sex, and that something is wrong with them if they're uncomfortable with that. A person with who rapes women with their penis should not be sent to a women's prison.
If someone insists on calling me "phobic" for holding those beliefs, then the label means nothing to me. I will never stop supporting the rights of women and girls. I do it for good reason, and refuse to stop even if it hurts someone's feelings. I double down because I support these ideas, not because I have hatred in my heart against everyone who isn't just like me.
@@bobdonda that doesn't change the fact that what you advocate for is actively harmful to a marginalized community. Also sports teams shouldn't be divided by gender in the first place but ability. It's sexism that created men's leagues and women's leagues in the first place.
@@momok232 Bible thumpers say disagreeing with them is harmful and that they're a marginalized community too. Doesn't mean they're always right and that I'm not allowed to disagree.
And sports leagues are separated by biological sex for a very good reason - because males have a massive physical advantage over females in sports. It is not sexism to acknowledge this, it's sexism to deny biological females their own sports leagues to compete in.
I hope you wouldn't call it ageism when we don't allow adults to play in children's sports leagues. They deserve to have fair competition in their own leagues too. And it's not sizeism when we ban heavyweights from boxing against featherweights. It's about fair competition.
My mother always told me, listen to everyone, because there is a grain of truth in every statement, even if that truth is only that this is that person's perspective. By refusing to listen, you give others license to ignore you in kind. Discussion is the means to change, not the reward for change. I have often viewed the penultimate disrespect as ignoring someone. Refusing to acknowledge people is only for those who have disrespected me, at least for my part.
I really appreciate this video in particular, as it covers a lot of things I have thought for a while but felt it was not my place to articulate, since I am not part of the trans community. Thank you.
I just want to point out that the woman singing the jazz song in Fantastic Beasts was a goblin, not a house elf.
I do think that people will be more open for conversation and even changing their mindset if they feel that they aren’t being directly attacked but rather their beliefs are being questioned
Well spoken. And yeah, I had the same sinking feeling. Yes it was right as fans to stand up when people criticised the books for being about wizards but sadly it gave JK the courage to say hurtful things.
A year late but what a brilliant video. I think when people just go straight for insulting someone instead of trying to help them become more educated, it is much more about the person feeling good about themselves than actually trying to make meaningful change. Just shitting on people we think are racist or whatever might make us feel good but it does nothing to actually change anyone's mind.
And your point about making transphobia or racism or something seen as something people do instead of something people are is right on point. Really wish more would hear that message
The house elves always bothered me. It was so unnecessary to make them like it. Only Dumbledore ever validates that Hermione was right about the treatment of house elves, but even then he doesn't challenge their enslavement, just admits that wizards haven't treated house elves very well.
cant say i agree on this take... i dont think this is a learned pattern from responses she received, i think its how rich and famous she is. millions, possibly billions, of people have read and love her work. a fan may feel it appropriate to point out problematic tropes or behavior, but when THAT many people are following your work, its never just one person. one persons well-meaning tweet of "your depiction of goblins uses a lot of antisemitic tropes and that bothers me as a fan of your work" gets seen by her in the thousands or millions. sooo many people point these things out to her at a time that it is less like a constructive critique from a loving fan, and more like the uproarious denouncement of a gladiator stadium crowd. millions of insignificant knives thrown at her for days or weeks straight. its not us, its capitalism and our worship/idol culture around rich and influential people. and people under that watchful an eye, under that much pressure from millions of people at all times? well theres only two directions you can go: back away (haitus social media, disable comments, turn off dm's, etc) or lean in.
hmm thats a thought. The internet does not allow for "Forgiveness" and you certainly never want to let the internet smell blood. What could she doo about the goblins for instance? Those books have been out for years now what would it change for her to come out and suddenly "Change" the goblins? I mean I never saw them as jewish stereotypes. But even if she did come out and say "I see how people can be offended." And she changed the goblins entirely all that would do, and we know this because the internet exists, would then be "Why isn't Harry Trans, black, and in love with Draco." we know that the fans and even those outside the fandom would be pushing to rebuild the world entirely to whatever they want.
Not to mention if she said she was wrong about something or admitted that sure the Goblins might be a bit stereotypical, then she is gonna be called Anti-Semitic forever anyway. Its a damned if you do and damned if you don't moment. The internet does not let that blood go.
This one was challenging. Here's my take. I think Rowling fell down a rabbit hole, where she feels accepted and has friends that feel the same way. At the end of the day, this is no different than any other group of bigots that gets together online. I do think it is a moral failing, and that it takes a lot to snap someone out of it. I do think it becomes a part of who you are, rather than something you do, because not doing it requires a revelation of truth, in the same way any other type of personal growth would.
I also think it's a moral failing, and a symptom of larger anxieties a person is suffering from. But it's safe to assume that by the time someone has fallen down one of these rabbit holes, that they're irredeemable. At least until their next great revelation of personal growth comes along.
Rowling knows damned good and well how much her words weigh. She wrote that essay knowing full well that it would be used to guide policy by conservative lawmakers in the US and the UK, and that's why she did it. She's trying to set the legal framework for recognition of trans rights back, and she doesn't care who she hurts. I don't think that's the kind of thing you can just walk back from, or just... magically stop doing. Even if she knew she was wrong, she has already committed to this.
The only solution is a large scale consumer boycott and de-platforming.
Rowling needs to be treated like Milo.
It's the only thing that's going to work.
Take away her power, and she can't hurt anyone else.
You did not listen, its clear
@@wolftitanreading5308 And you didn't read. We're even.
@@EvaWebb oh I read it and basically you were saying give up don't try, and that you have to have a movie eureka moment. That's not how life works. If you want someone like Rowling to change it takes time its not built in a day, and what the fandom did start calling her trash death threats that is what fucked them over I bet if they could've gotten someone to actually talk to rowling a trans person, maybe she would get t know them. She would change.
But your like, No lets deplatform her. That won't work all it does is drop her in the echo. It's like trying to get an addic to quick drugs you cannot force them. they have to willingly and that takes time, and effort on both ends. Which as I said the fandom instantly fucked up as they jumped down her throat.
@@wolftitanreading5308 I'm saying you can't help bigots, you can't change bigots, and you're naive for thinking that you can.
The only thing you can do, in order to stop the bleeding, the only thing that works, is to deplatform them. Words kill.
I feel like there is also a problem with the word transphobia itself. Transphobic would be someone who rejects trans people for what they are, or who hates them.
Rowling and other people are ok with letting trans people live their lives however they choose, but disagree with most trans theory on gender, or on what she considers core faculties of womanhood(which is tied to her own concept of herself, btw, kind of a personal thing you can hardly beat out of someone). That is not a "phobia". It is some sort of "ism", for sure, (cis-ism? "biosex-ism"?) but it is not the same as hate.
ive come to associate that shimmery blue/green and purple with you it makes me so happy
Love your reasoning and rationale in like all of your videos. As soon as you started this discussion I thought "that's what happened to gina". I think your thoughts on this and approach to calling people out could apply to a lot of areas right now. Were in a moment on all sides and issues where everyone is doubling down and conversations have stopped in favor of insults and shaming and I dont see it really helping anything.
Idk I know this video is old , but I do think there comes a point where transphobic actions make a transphobe, the issue isn't that she said a couple things accidentally she has double down on them multiple times. Not labelling her as transphobic gives her supporters space to argue her ideas aren't transphobic but to "protect " women's rights...
The video is two and a half years old if that helps.
Speaking from a sociological perspective: she was labelled as a "transphobe" and a "terf" and she chose to accept that label rather than reject it. Its her master status now, she's not getting rid of it easily
If someone climbs a hill and we don't let them come down of course they will build a castle.
When did Rowling every try to come down?
This is such a fascinating take on the whole situation. I honestly wasn't aware of most of this since I grew up while the books came out and thus most of that time I wasn't active in any fandom spaces.
I'm only seven minutes in so maybe this is a touch too pre-emptive, but I don't think the language is the issue. The language already exists, you can talk about it as an action (that was transphobic), or as an attribute (you are transphobic), and the response is generally the same no matter what - such as insisting any mention of transphobia is a slur, that we're just too sensitive, that we're dangerous to ourselves or to them, etc. There were people who responded to Rowling in more action/behaviour focused ways who provided her with information and sources to better understand, who gave her every opportunity to gracefully walk out from her incidents while saving face. She chose to ignore those people specifically to focus on the ones who would not and could not bear to keep prostrating themselves for the benefit of others.
We can keep trying to be perfect victims, blaming ourselves as if we as trans people weren't virtuous enough and kind enough in attempting to reform others, seeing it as our own failure when they dive down the rabbit hole face first, but it won't change them. These aren't individual failures, they're systemic ones. You can't, as an individual, fix those kinds of problems by hoping that if you communicate well enough, no one will go down the path Rowling has.
That's not to say good communication doesn't make a difference at all, ever, but going as far as taking responsibility for the actions of people who would hurt us ("she is OUR monster") under the assumption it was something _we_ did wrong, that it's our fault they didn't change, is little more than internalised victim blaming. The idea that anyone can escape marginalisation, misinformation, and discrimination if they're just good enough at talking others out of it is a poisonous power fantasy, and an empty promise.
Thanks, this makes a lot of sense, people who are pushed usually push back, talking about all the -isms and -phobias as actions rather than identity, we have a greater chance of having a real conversation about it and making some change. On another note, the make- up, nails, and hair were really on point today, love the metallic sheen to it all!
These are very good points, I defended JK Rowling because I didn’t want to believe she could have these views. I always gave her the “benefit of the doubt” until it was too late...
Thanks for this video! I agree and it’s also been central to a shift in how I have this type of discourse. I’ve come in to contact with a lot of unintentionally racist comments and I found that it was far more helpful to treat them as behaviors that the person should recognize and think about, not their identity.
This video popped up on my Google news feed and I couldn't be more thrilled to have discovered such an intelligent voice in this circus of crazy.
I feel like JK Rowling is the embodiment of Dudley in the earlier books. She was treated with kid gloves despite being horrible to a lot of people. Now, she grew up thinking she can do no wrong, because we allowed her to believe that she can do no wrong.
No ,we didnt
She is a human herself,and has every other sense to the sense of wrong as the others.We didn't make her
S H E M A D E H E R S E L F.
We just appreciated her lot to the next level.
We told her to 'ignore the haters'. Constant praise, putting her on a pedestal, elevating her to God status, that can go to anyone's head. Any criticism seems like an attack when that is going on for years.
@@kristavaillancourt6313 can totally relate to that fact mate
Thank you for this. I never thought about the fact that "being transphobic" and "acting transphobic" are not necessarily the same thing. I plan to make a conscious effort to focus more on the action when addressing problematic situations than labeling the person transphobic/homophobic/etc.
I think assuming that "we made" her is attributing far too much influence to internet people. You're assuming she was a blank slate, and she was shaped entirely by the fans, and I just do not think this is the case. Of course, all we see is her interactions with the fans. HOWEVER: she lives a whole life outside of fans and people on the internet.
Is it wrong that I've decided to refer to her as JoKe Boweling from now on? Her hatred towards the trans community was bad enough, but now because of her several others within the entertainment world have come forward to defend her. It's depressing every other day to find out someone that I looked up to is throwing their support behind Boweling's hatred.
I think you are absolutely right about how the conversations should be not "You Are", but you are "behaving like" or "that behavior is". This may not change many adults, but it could help the next generation. It's like the first time a kid tells a joke they heard, bit they didn't understand it was racist or sexist... and then it is explained to them. Many of us who are not in a marginalized group didn't understand these things growing up. I watch your channel so I can learn and be a better friend to those in my life who are trans.
She's transphobic. I'm not sure exactly how many "transphobic acts" it takes to meet that threshold, but when you double, triple and quadruple down on it after criticism as she has...yeah, I think we're there. That doesn't necessarily mean she'll be that way forever, but it's a label that can be comfortably applied to her now. Perhaps it wasn't when all of this started, but she's definitely gotten to that point. I totally get not wanting to label people but at some point a spade needs to be called a spade.
Thing in her statements instantly go way more attacks and threats then the statements and views was getting criticism over her views of Trans people .. which humans like Animals when attacked will fight back .. even more so if cornered .. So with her getting more so attacked for her views rather then criticized makes sense she'd double, triple and quadruple down .. rather then try to read into what she said is hurtful and offensive to people
@@lloydlandrum3040 The online conversation can be an ugly one, there's no doubt about that. This does not mean we should be making excuses for people for holding harmful views and using their platform to promote them, refusing to grow in the face of criticism.
That I agree with but given how mainy open social media threads I seen about people talking about themselves sending her death threats.. about thinking of seriously having a package bomb sent to her , About desiring to literally kill her, about planning on Hacking her and planting false evidence all for her remarks .. several being Activists or part of the LGBTQ+ community in someway ... Yeah those cases that helps her dig into her views as you don't fight hate and bigotry with hate and bigotry.. Especially when as far as I know what she has.. said hasn't advocated for violence against anyone .. Yet she is getting people openly talking about harming her for what she said
Thats the sort of cases that can make people truly bigoted if they wasn't before ..
I haven't finished the video yet, but had to come to the comments section to tell you that those lips and silver eyes with that metallic green are amazing, loved the combination 😊
Seeing as I've been dealing with someone sliding into a similar quagmire for years, I'm not sure about your first point. I've been angry , and that didn't work. I've tried to respect the trauma of being called out. I've tried to listen. I've debated after every rule in the book. I've suggested alternative sources. I've been encouraging. Still, they make up excuses to back to the alt right. Still, the self pity at every hint of pushback. Still the abject refusal to admit to the harm their touchstones cause. Seeing themselves as the victim. For years. And it's killing me because we do not have the option if walking away from each other.
J.K Rowling had the support of her fanbase for a long time after the first hints of transphobia appeared. She's had privilege of forgiveness and education that most ordinary folks don't come close to. She was not driven to this, she chose it actively, time and time again. If this last straw for us has done anything, it's giving her an excuse to drop the mask and turn up the self pity, same as any extremist does. I'm afraid all that's left is to take off the kid gloves and hope she gets over herself.
Wonderful video, as usual. Thank you so much.
Well done. I love the point of refuting and condeming the ACTION, not the person. As a teacher, that is a big part of our training, to correct the action and value the person. Harmful transphobic (or racist, or homophobic, or sexist, or any hateful deed), actions should be corrected and eliminated, but the person behind those actions should be seen and valued as a person, as all people should. Indeed, it's when we stop seeing people as people, whole people with a dichotomy of admirable and repugnant parts as we all have, that hate of all types spreads. We should express disappointment and correction, not vitriolic hate.
I have a shelf on my desk that was dedicated to all my Harry Potter merchandising. My Harry's wand, my time traveller, my Ravenclaw flag, my chocolate frog boxes... Next to it I had a huge poster of the list of all supplies for First year Hogwarts students, and on my desk my pencil case with the shape of an Ollivander's wand case.
Yesterday I cleared the shelf, took the poster and rolled it up, took my Marauders mug from the kitchen. I emptied the pencil case and took my Ravenclaw keychain from my keys.
I gathered everything, alongside with the books, and stored it all in a box. I closed the box and left it in a corner of my room. Will I throw it away? Burn it? No, of course not. There are great memories there (also money spent). I grew up with all that, HP tought me so much and Harry was a friend to me in school when I barely had any friends and spent the breaks reading in the clashroom alone. I've laughed and cried with that story and with the movies, and I admired Joanne. Her struggles, her charity work, all she had to overcome to become an author... That was a huge inspiration for me, and... still is. I'm an illustrator but I'm also on my way to publish a fantasy book, and she was the one who sparked my love for writing.
This feel of betrayal is what happens when you idolize a person, I guess, when you see them as heroes instead as human beings with flaws. And it hurts, but that pain maybe means you have matured enough to see those flaws and see what is wrong.
I stored all in that box and cleared my desk from any HP stuff because she has tied herself up so much with her own creation, each time I look at any HP thing, I think of her and how much damage she is doing, and I'm cis, so I can't imagine how it must be for other fans who aren't. I just can't look at it the same way, and won't spend any more money on it, I don't want her influence and damage to grow any cent bigger.
I'm a cis woman and I'm feminist, and feminism must be intersectional, or won't be at all.
Thank you a lot for your deep thoughts and call to kindness, as usual. Short but I loved it
Happy to meet a fellow Ravenclaw! (cis woman here, but not straight) 😍😍😍😍
Great content, I am so impressed by your intellectual honesty! Liked and subbed!!!