ARRIVAL: A hidden sci-fi GEM | Experiencing non-linear time - Four Play Ep. 25 (Villeneuve)
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- čas přidán 26. 06. 2024
- We start our new Four Play arc with our first focus on a director, Denis Villeneuve. Lately celebrated for his Dune films, we dive into his back catalog and begin with 2016's Arrival. Like Dune, Arrival is an adaptation of a science-fiction text, and takes an intellectual approach to the concept of first contact and the ensuring geo-political consequences. Ultimately, Arrival focuses on personal decisions made in the freedom of non-linear time and calls upon viewers to examine their ethics and the nature of life and death.
Editing by Adanion
Art by Atantalas
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0:00:00 - Intro to Arrival and the Villeneuve arc
0:10:58 - Premise and summary of Arrival
0:15:55 - Villeneuve's aesthetic style and visual choices
0:28:38 - The presentation of geopolitics, human nature, and fear of the unknown
0:32:56 - Jeremey Renner's performance and the film's timeline
0:39:50 - Similarities with Contact and themes of non-linear time
0:57:17 - Amy Adams' performance and her characters' family decisions
1:07:47 - Arrival's re-watchability and final thoughts
#moviereview
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#podcast - Zábava
Can I just say the graphic you guys get for each of these series are phenomenal. My favorite is still the graphic from your Heist series.
Atantalas is the GOAT
Disappointed you guys didn't mention Johann Johannsson's incredible music for this film; it is so expertly composed and really sets the tone for the story.
RIP Johann
The best show on LFN is back. I love Villenueve and all his films so much.
I don’t understand why Monte always brings up the lack of Paul and Duncan’s relationship. I have recently read the book a second time and Duncan is hardly in it at all. Him and Paul interact very little in the first book, it really isn’t until Messiah that their relationship is flushed out. I think if Monte read it again he would be surprised by how little Duncan’s relationship with the Atreides is elaborated on.
Love Arrival easily a top 5 sci fi film for me. I’m a sucker for the more out there sci fi concepts and alien types.
In my opinion, Villeneuve is the modern master of the plot twist. Arrival and Incendies have two of the greatest plot twists ever, and almost all of his films have an insanely memorable reveal in them. He just understands how to create a big impact moment in a film.
Man I really need to rewatch this movie. I remember thinking it was good, but I thought LaLa Land was an amazing movie (at the time). But now, LaLa Land is a movie that I would not put anywhere near my favorite movies of all time.
I do agree with the life-affirming notion of the movie. Amy Adams character was so full of life after having the child and expericing the sorrow of the loss than the beginning of the movie where Villeneuve tricked us into thinking that her emptiness was loss-related grief. In actuality, the emptiness in the beginning was not experiecing life and creating those connections.
Loved this episode of Four Play--really put things into context for me.
I think LaLaLand is actually a toxic ass movie. If I remember correctly, the dude was supposed to give up his dreams but not her? Please.
Richard is really good at these discussions and I enjoyed watching them.
Thorin casually dropping the "I don't believe in evolution" 24:30
I mean proteins coming from nothing is a bit farfetched.
@@tempname4039 definitely not judging, I dont claim to know where we come from. Thorin has been voicing a lot of 21th century "heretical" view points lately, honestly I love it!
@@tempname4039 If you throw interlocking bricks into a box and just shake it then you might very well get some more or less complex structures in the process. Then do it with millions of boxes for millions of years and the most unlikely arrangement might just happen at some point. Life is just a complex chemical process after all.
There are apparently some arguments about there not being enough time for evolution to do its work, at least according to the fixed rates of mutation observed in bacteria and humans, I think. I don't know what to think on the issue, I'm not well informed enough.
@@tempname4039 proteins did not come from nothing and thats not what evolution claims
59:58 you cant just cut to this scene bro, im right back in the cinema like that jfc
The joke about the screenwriter having to get there in order to write arrival was just pure gold Thorin.
Let’s go we’re so back!!!!
Neil degrasse tyson acts like a cold professor trying to be cool in the worst ways, while carl sagan came off like a village elder, or just the good dad I never had. He was telling you things he thought would make your experience on this planet better because he cared about you. Neil degrasse tyson has never credibly acted like he cared about another person besides himself.
Well, Carl Sagan didn't have Twitter or social media. I'm sure perception of him would change if viewed through that lens.
Ego, lord of all lords.
My biggest beef with Mr Sagan is that he popularized the idea that after the Greek Republics and Rome fell, nothing scientific happened for the next 1200 years until the Enlightenment. Though this is coming from someone who aspired to be a historian.
One of my favourite sci-fi movies. Looking forward to this one!
Another banger. Nice.
Amazing film and a great episode, cheers lads
14:10 15:52 16:50 22:39 24:39 creationist dismisses evidence 37:23. 48:01 56:58 1:02:54 to do or not 1:07:10 1:10:45 1:13:13 1:14:33 twists personal shared language 1:15:50 1:19:28 1:25:00 la la 1:27:10 Carl sagan
Arrival is my favourite film - Combines grand Sci-Fi themes, alien contact, non-linear time, and a big twist all into a personal story with some outstanding acting
On top of that, the central concept of the film has helped me to reframe regret and grief in my own life. My perspective shifted from the Donnelly outlook to how Banks sees things
Just an unbelievable production, will watch it many more times in the future
Watched this movie a few times and always pick up a new detail when I do, great movie loved the discussion!
Amazing analysis of a great movie. Really enjoyed the breakdown of the idea of whether it is a gift or a curse to have to re live your life without being able to change anything. I believe it is a powerful thing to live your life so that you would see it as a gift.
Never stop doing these
RETURN OF FOUR PLAY YOU LOVE TO SEE IT
simply the best media minds all together, forever underrated. love you guys ( parasocial relationships off the scale)
What a fucking incredible episode; given such a great movie, Hearing you all riff on the message was incredibly powerful. Much love to thorin, gave me a lot to read and think about
Cheers chaps
hearing you guys talk about it makes me wish you'd talk about Stalker the 1979 film one of those days. Maybe as a part of hard scifi/eastern european arc
Tarkovsky definitely deserves his own arc but I doubt the entire month of that would be great for viewership
I HAVE to know thorins personal beliefs on how life originated on earth if he doesn’t believe in evolutionary theory. His ideas are always so interesting. He mentioned the “demiurge” so I imagine he believes in some form of Gnosticism or other eclectic brand of Christianity. I’m dying to know
The more I get to know about thorin outside of esports, the less I wanna know.
Tbh people are starting to abandon the theory of macro evolution so we probably do have to start thinking outside the box.
@@tempname4039no honest scientist has abandoned the evolution theory. We have even proved that evolution is real, we have observed it in real time, actual evolution.
No other theory about life and human existence has any proof, evolution has countless evidence.
Watch his side channel episodes Charles Carrol and Jasun Horsley for more context. A lot of heretical ideas being discussed there.
in the interview with Owen Cyclops he discusses these ideas further.
Hell yeah, my fav sci-fi film of all time.
First of all, I would like to thank you for making me watch this movie... I just finished it, and I loved every second of it ^^
Finally they review some more recent movies. Very glad to see this. hope to see more. please give me more also like Napoleone would be nice or batman 2022 or interstellar etc
Top 5 SciFi gor me, such a great film. Incredible atmosphere. Also I had a similar experience as thorin when watching inceotion in a foreign country lol
Dear Editor,
Just before the Carl Sagan segment it appears your titles are de-synced with the clips. I want you to know I laughed and share in the pain of a single adjustment goofs a part of the timeline in a way you'd only find if you watched the entire thing front to back.
Great work. Great show. Love yall
Awesome episode as always. As an average dude you guys seem like genius movie critics to me.
When Thorin brought up The Gay Science and Eternal Return I had to shout. That to me is the whole point of the movie. It made me so happy.
I went to see this movie few months after my first child was born and it left me disturbed for several days just thinking about the concept of time used in the it and the way Amy's and Jeremy's characters experienced their life and family trauma ... amazing film nonetheless but it really shook me the first time i saw
Here's the thing that makes me question if Villenueve's blockbusters being meh were his fault. The directing, the look and the editing of those films are great, but where they fall short always seems to be the writing. While his smaller films had amazing writing, and the other aspects were also amazing. Since he had a writing credit on the Dune movies I wonder if it's that his writing just isn't that good on top of the fact that they tried to cram Dune into 2 movies instead of 3.
But then again I haven't seen any of his French films where he also has a writing credit
The craziest thing to me about especially the second Dune movie is: where are all the visions and non-linear time there?
Clearly from this movie Villeneuve knows how to implement this concept excellently.
The movie clearly took the approach of moving from Paul as the main character in the first act to having him be portrayed as he would be viewed by others in the second act after his transformation. It drives home the change that has taken place and how he is being viewed as a messianic figure and has embraced that role. Imo it was done masterfully and enhances the underlying point of the book
god damn ive missed these
Holy!!! Best film show is back with my favourite director arc! God pls let Christopher Nolan be next with Memento, Inception, Interstellar and Tenet❤
It's interesting hearing your takes about dune and arrival. As a linguist, it was hard for me to fully buy in especially since arrival evokes a famously derided theory in the field (the whorfian notion of language constraining thought).
I loved dune for the believability of its world building -- I saw both movies in theaters and was immersed in the world of arrival, too, but I think dune is absolutely immaculate in this way, aside from performances being flat in places. arrival for me has a bit of that interstellar "love is the 4th dimension" bullshit. neither premise ruins either film for me, but arrival is brought down a little bit for sure. I still did enjoy it, to be clear.
We back boys
I think another sci-fi movie that really tied things back to a human expeirence is Sphere with Samuel L Jackson. I found that movie had a very compelling message about the idea of englightenment, education, academia, fulfillment, reflection of oneself.
I'm firmly of the view that I cannot yet assess either of Villeneuve's Dune films - and won't until I get to see at least his Dune "Messiah" (and, frankly, a "Children of Dune" that he claims he doesn't plan to make).
The things that make a Villeneuve film a Villeneuve film really don't appear in the first Dune book: the intimate human story that eventually becomes morally ambiguous (often in the extreme!), makes you uncomfortable and forces you to think about why you're feeling what you're feeling.
There are at best glimpses of that late in Dune Part II, but I can't divorce the Dune story from at least the full character arc of Paul Atreides (and, arguably, that of his son in "God Emperor").
Both Dune films thus far are setting the stage for the full multi-generational Greek tragedy that the three or four first Frank Herbert books fundamentally are.
I like to remind people that Herbert's very choice of the family name "Atreides" harkens back to Greek myth and to a similarly multi-generational "curse of the gods" visited upon the "House of Atreus" (known in Greek as the "Atreides").
I expect Villeneuve to drive home the tragic moral ambiguity, and the gut-wrenching/thought-provoking climax of his earlier films in his remaining Dune film(s?).
But either way, that's the basis on which I expect to (finally) be able to assess the earlier films in the series.
I hope they do a Phillip Seymour Hoffman run.
Would love a directors arc with David Lynch eventually
In 24:33 did Thorin just drop that he does not believe in evolution?
That is very unexpected.
24:30 damn, Thorin doesn't believe in evolution? That's a twist.
Not even one of the top 10 controversial one liners of Thorin.
The story is actually very same, he added atmosphere, but the ideas are already there
I rly need to rewatch this Film.
I watch it in the Cinema with 16 yo and was expecting an braindead alian action Movie
looking forward to the episode on prisoners! i remember loving it the first time but I rewatched it recently and found the ending kind of underwhelming and silly
Weird how the mind works. I was so sure you'd done this before for some reason, but turns out I was just remembering an old EFAP episode. Nice episode though.
Amy Adams had the misfortune of having two fantastic performances she should have been nominated for in the same year, Arrival and Nocturnal Animals. Split the vote and she ended up getting neither, tragic because she could have won for either.
paul thomas anderson (the master) could definitely be a good series
That’s our next arc!
👍
Maybe have an Amy Adams month at some point, she has had a ton of great roles
24:32 Huh?
Thorin rolls gangster style
I think when you look at what humans did to dogs through the process of selective breeding, which is heavyhanded, guided evolution, it doesn't take a whole lot of imagination to see that over a long enough time span things could easily split off into entirely different species. Some theists like to differentiate between adaptation and evolution in order to dismiss the later. But really, it's just the same thing. Adaptation just being a more easily observable short-term step. And there is of course evidence of some sort of transformation going on when you look at the useless, little remnants of hindlegs that whales/dolphins have. Then the famously inefficient laryngeal nerve, especially notable in giraffes. Or how so many species follow a similar blueprint, like you can identify similar bone structures in feet, wings or hands.
@@CountCocofangthanks for the essay man I was referring to Thorin saying he doesn’t believe in evolution XD
@@Ninelotus23dfsd Yes, me as well. Outlining how it's odd given the amassed evidence. Wonder what he believes instead.
@@CountCocofangif evolution is so obvious where are the millions of obvious examples of inter species missing links. Also, why when someone randomly changes a piece of code does it never improve the code? Random changes to chromosomes makes them worse not better.
Did Thorin say he doesn't believe in evolution?
A NEW VIDEOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :D:D:D:D:D:D
Is it a hidden gem tho? Villeneuve was already a massive name (Sicario and of course Prisoners were out by then)
Do Interstellar too, please.
I look forward to future episodes but.... well I guess when you say X movie is his weakest movie doesn't matter too much if it was a better movie than most would make.
You're not gonna discuss Incendies :o
pls review dune
Great film
My brother and I both hated this movie after watching it in theaters. A good friend and his dad left the theater halfway through watching it. Hearing you guys give it so much praise is very trippy for me because I have nothing but negative memories of it.
Uhm, you should watch Incendies???
One of his best movies and I'm not sure you know it exists lol, so just saying
Watched Arrival last week because post said this episode was gonna be released on 5/13.
That said, I can’t say that it was a great movie but rather a good one. I actually got the same disconnected feeling that Richard mentioned about Dune movies.
It definitely gets boring in the middle. It might have just been better to just tell some things and not show. It would have cut the runtime, and made it better.
Edit: Listening to you guys made me realize that I was being too cruel to the movie. Being reminded of certain scenes and being almost teleported going back to the experience makes me realize how awesome it really was. I need to watch it again, but for now I’ll say it’s an awesome movie.
the poster/schedule says week of 5/13 so dropping the episode on sunday 19th is still on schedule :)
Don't blame Villeneuve for Dune movies being all vibes, if you strip Dune of vibes you're not left with much anyway, the guy can only do so much with the source material. Frank Herbert was a weirdo who wrote a convoluted series of increasingly bizarre overly complicated anthropological trivialities with no particular ending just to state a point about resenting religion and charismatic leaders, a task he failed at so spectacularly that he had to write Dune Messiah because people incorrectly perceived Paul as a hero. No idea why people hold it in such high regard, it always just reeked of existential angst to me but I guess people like that sort of stuff. The human condition, people are evil... blah blah blah... so dull.
Is having a baby with someone who you know wouldn't even be with you if you told them the child was predestined to die, s-x assault via coercion ?
So let me get this straight, MonteCristo will glaze absolute slop like the Fallout show but shoot strays at Dune 2 because of "muh book"? Sure
saying Dune 2 is Villeneuve's second worst. ARE YOU INSANE?? (kassad voice). I strongly believe it will be regarded as a classic in 15 years.
Can someone ask Richard to stop using the American pronunciation of Villeneuve. He's English, use the French/English pronunciation.
Villeneuve doesn't need 5,000 syllables. It's just new town; veelnerv
For me Dune 2 is the best movie of all time. You can spare me the 7/10 crap. Lisan Al'Gaib going full Jihad lol
They read the books years in advance, that will definitely put a damper on your enjoyment. Thankfully, I didn't read the books, so I agree with you. I couldn't put the movie out of my mind for a whole month after watching it.
@@Selendeki I read the 3 first books and hated them pretty much. Thats why I was so pleasently surprised with the awesome Chad protagonist
@@Spanishell I've never had that experience, interesting. Usually when I read the book first I can only see the inferior product that the adaptation is. Game of Thrones being the worst example that essentially destroyed my enjoyment of that series.
@@Selendeki I am like that as well, I just hate the Dune books so much. Like the guy wants to stop the Jihad, has the power to just tell his followers "Dont do Jihad" and never does lol
A bit worrying that you are calling the catalyst for mass genocide a chad hero.
Paul can’t stop the Jihad after embracing godhood and giving the Fremen power over the Guild. He could have stopped the Jihad but before that but that would have led to humanity’s destruction.
Read God Emperor of Dune if you are interested in this topic