🎹How to Buy a Used Piano - Tips, Questions to Ask, and What to Look For🎹
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- čas přidán 27. 06. 2024
- Key Bushings: 2:20
Key Leveling: 4:11
Hammer Wear: 5:17
The Strings: 7:10
Soundboard: 9:00
Play It: 12:26
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#UsedPiano #HowToBuyAPiano #PianoBuyingGuide
Welcome to another piano education video from Merriam Pianos. In this video we’re exploring the question how to buy a used piano and know what to look for, so you can avoid falling into the trap of over-paying or under-researching a used piano that you might be looking at. Thanks for checking out the channel, subscribe if you haven’t yet, and let’s all learn something new about buying a used piano with Stu Harrison. We hope you enjoy!
Most of the things to be wary of are easy to see, if you know what to look for.
Key bushings:
Key bushings are small felt or simulated felt parts which provide cushioning and spacing between various moving parts in a piano’s action. And a very common bushing to get worn out is the front rail or balance rail bushings on a piano, which causes the keys to feel particularly loose and less precise. An easy way to tell if a key is overly worn is this: can you lightly push a key to the left or right to the point that it touches the key next to it with no gap? If so, the key bushings are worn, and should be addressed if the piano is going to be used for ‘serious’ playing. It doesn’t mean that the instrument isn’t a good one, simply that it’s been under-maintained, or over-played, and that some attention should be given to this area based on your needs.
Worn hammers:
There are 88 hammers in most new pianos, and they all inevitably wear down as they impact the piano’s strings thousands and thousands of times. As the hammer becomes compacted and worn, you’ll see grooves starting to form on the hammer. SOME grooving is nothing to worry about, but if the hammer feels extremely hard (you can’t even push your fingernail into it even slightly) and the grooves are a millimeter or more deep, the hammers are either at the end of their life, or need to be shaved and needled (i.e. ‘voiced’). Again, not a deal-breaker, but a sign that the piano has been under-maintained over it’s time, and will likely be sounding far brighter and metallic than it would otherwise.
Key Leveling:
Another easy symptom to visually check out the overall keybed and see whether all of the white keys are relatively level with one another, and there aren’t severe differences in height and differences in width. Like the first point, this can be remedied, but serious key leveling is a sign that the piano may need a complete re-regulation and potentially in need of some replacement parts. This is a ‘yellow flag’ for sure.
Rusty or Corroded Strings:
Strings are made of steel and copper, and they do age, and really aren’t intended to last much longer than 50 years in the best case scenarios. Strings that are older than that often have trouble staying in tune, are more prone to breakage, and start to produce stray harmonics and unpleasant tones.
This is something that can visually be seen if you take the front of the piano off (upright), or the lid is lifted (grand). Dark or greenish bass strings, or pot-marked steel strings on the top is what this looks like. This is an expensive issue and will have a major effect on the piano’s overall musical performance.
Cracked Soundboard:
A cracked soundboard is a contentious problem that traditionally has meant that an instrument is basically ‘dead’ and should not be considered. The reality is more nuanced than that, but at the very least, a crack should trigger a full inspection by a piano technician. Cracks can be completely benign, and besides the aesthetic deficiencies, can be essentially ignored. On the other hand, a crack that is actively buzzing or crosses a rib, may be causing extremely serious issues that are incredibly expensive to fix.
A repaired soundboard is also something that can be perfectly fine, if the repair has been done well, so if you see discoloured lines on the soundboard, this could be repairs that you’re seeing.
Conclusions:
We hope these quick tips will help you in your search, and you can quickly figure out whether a used piano should be investigated further, or whether it can be passed over for something that might be a safer choice.
Thanks for watching!!
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Most people don't maintain there pianist the wat they should. They see no reason to reshape hammers, do voicing, or regulation. They think the only way to get the piano to feel like "new" is to buy a new one or have it completely rebuilt. Videos like this help people understand that that maintaining your piano is very important, and that used instruments can be improved with a little bit of work.
That is a very good point! There are a lot of steps that a player can take to ensure that their piano provides a high-quality musical experience for many years. Thanks for tuning in and sharing your insights! :)
I love the way this guy explains things. Everything is explained honestly and straightforward. Good thing he’s in Canada because I’d probably buy the most expensive piano I could afford just because he’s genuine.
I’m super new to piano things but this was surprisingly easy to understand, I didn’t feel like I needed much prior knowledge at all of piano…. anatomy? to completely comprehend the explanation. I feel much more confident in my ability to make a worthwhile purchase! Thank you so much!
Concise, easy to understand, just as easy to put into practice, what an excellent video. Thank you very much.
You're very welcome! Thank you for taking the time to check out the video and our channel! :)
Excellent video. It really is whatI need now (Aug 2023). Thank you Stu.
Very good explanations, thanks a lot.
Thank u so much for all these advices 🙏🏻
Well done, thanks.
Stu does some of the best review and/or information videos about pianos you can see on CZcams. Succinct, infornation dense, to the point without waffle, and always identifying personal opinions as such, and all presented with a certain self-effacing charm. I have learnt a lot. Thank-you for sharing your knowledge.
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! Thank you so much for tuning into our channel and for your wonderfully kind words! I know Stu and the production team certainly appreciate them. :)
Thank you for your advice
Excellent video! Thank you
Always Stu makes so ease to understand any subject related with pianos. Another great learning and entertaining video.
Thanks to Stu and Merriam Pianos.
Cheers!
You're very welcome! Thanks for tuning in! :)
awesome vidoe, thanks for sharing these piano knowledge, very helpful
Thanks a lot for your precious advice
and information, I really appreciated it !
You're very welcome! Thank you for taking the time to tune in! We appreciate it. :)
Excellent!
Thank you so much. Those informations are exactly what I needed. I really appreciated. ❤❤❤ let’s go shopping now ! ☺️
You're very welcome! Thanks for tuning in! Happy shopping! :)
Thank you so much for this info 💖
You're welcome! Thank you for tuning in! :)
Wow. Very informative. Thank you.
You're very welcome! Thanks for tuning in! :)
Great video. Thank you!!❤❤
You are very welcome! Thanks for watching! :)
Fantastic recommendations! Thanks!
You're very welcome! :)
Thanks for sharing your knowledge. This is some crucial info man👍🏼
You're very welcome! We're happy to hear that you found it helpful! :)
Excellent info! Thx!! 😊
You're very welcome! :)
i love this channel
Glad found this video. Really helpful.
We're glad you stumbled upon it too! And we're happy to hear that it was helpful! :)
Thank you very much , it made me decide against buying used piano. Not goo with age. Too many moving part I agree.
Hi Stu. I inherited three player baby grands from my dad. Two are Knabes and one Haines Brothers. I wanted to thank you for this very informative video as im hoping I can sell one of the Knabes and the Haines Brothers someday soon. Thank You Eddie J. Long Island NY
Sup I'm in need
Nice, useful review. TY
You're welcome! We're glad you found it helpful! :)
EXCELLENT, THANKS
You're very welcome! :)
Thanks so much for all the advice. Would be great to get some tips for buying a second hand electric piano
Hey I bought a second hand digital piano before. Should be a lot easier. I think best way is to find a newer model preferably with receipts/warranty. Then just make sure keys etc. work and it has been stored in decent environment.
Go with Roland. They are unquestionably the best in the digital piano market. Their sound, 'action' and touch are the closest to replicating an acoustic piano.
Play it and make sure all button functions work
This was really easy to interpret, and I fully agree with this review! I’m going to check out a 120+ year old Bechstein, this has helped me to navigate the potential pitfalls!
Any updates? Did you get the piano?
@merriampianos Hi Stu! Could you please review the C. Bechstein Academy 124 Style as well?
Many thanks.
Stu really has not only musical talent but also rhetorical. For a non-native speaker like me it is still easy to understand him. Only here and there I have to look up a few - mostly technical - terms. Thanks Stu, excellent and really useful explanations.
I've been looking around on Facebook for some local opportunities. Some are free. Others are only a few hundred bucks. Many look very nice. But it's always a gamble. I think the only pre-owned piano I'd be comfortable purchasing is a certified one directly from a dealer.
me too
This one is a uprigh bechstein... Perhaps is deeper action touch than Cassio Gp 510...?
Good informative video. Is it worth buying a used piano that is a semitone flat?
Look for cracks in the corners and on the struts of the cast iron frame/plate.
Again wonderful tips you shared with us, Which is really useful for piano buyers. I have a one question what is voicing and what different it makes? And when to do voicing and why? Dose brand new piano need voicing if yes then when it’s to do voicing or how necessary is the voicing. Please share your knowledge on voicing. Thank you so much 😊
Hey Bhavesh - thanks for the question! So voicing refers to adjusting the felt on the hammers in SOME way. It could be a number of techniques that manipulate how 'hard' or tight the felt is stretched around the hammer, or how soft, or in some cases changing the weight as well. But generally speaking voicing can have a very large impact on the shape of the tone - it won't impact things like sustain, projection, complexity, etc...since these are more functions of bridge / soundboard / duplex / and cabinet design...but voicing definitely impacts whether a piano sounds dull or bright, or how much 'power' the hammer has at the point it strikes the string. The most common techniques for voicing is called needling, which is used to bring down the brightness of the hammer (I'm glossing over some nuance here...but that's basically a true statement), shaving, which is used to brighten slightly or to eliminate grooves which might be creating distortion, or 'juicing' , which is adding a chemical hardener to either add mass to the hammer (more power) or to harden the tip of the hammer, which will greatly brighten the attack. New pianos are voiced to some degree at the factory, but that will differ from factory to factory, and from model to model. The very best companies, making their very best pianos, will typically spend dozens of hours voicing their hammers before they are sent to a dealership. Dealerships with good technical staff on site will also tend to improve lower quality pianos with voicing and regulation so they're best foot is forward for a customer. Occasionally this can create a "lipstick on a pig" dynamic with very poor pianos, which have had some miracle voicing done (which won't last) but temporarily creates a more positive impression. Generally speaking, an average piano should be voiced every 5 years or so to make sure the hammer is generating the most optimal tone. Hope that helps! -stu
Merriam Music Thank you so much for your explanation about voicing. It’s really valuable information for me. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and reply 🙏
Thank you for the explanation. How about advice on how to buy a used piano for beginner? I don’t play piano but need to buy one for my son (6yo) who is learning now. Many available advice out there always include “play that piano”. Any tips for parent who don’t play piano? TIA
You're very welcome! The tips in this guide should still be helpful to anyone in the market for a piano. One thing you could consider doing is asking your son's teacher for assistance. While not every piano teacher is well-versed in manufacturer lines or product knowledge, they will know what an appropriate touch and tone is for their students' level. Hope this helps! :)
The used market is underrated and snob by many piano store... I guess they have their market and don't want to bother with the floor space being use. There is the guarantee also that people expect, but sorry it's not that hard to forecast the life of a piano. Nowaday with the backlog I don't know what's worse. A piano store with an empty floor or a couple of use instrument in good shape. I visited to many piano store this past year that don't have on the floor what they are selling.
Perhaps it's just my impression, but Stu reminds me a lot the jazz pianist played by David Hemmings in Dario Argento's thriller "Profondo Rosso".
I haven't seen that movie before, but I'll have to check it out now! ;)
@@MerriamPianos Scary movie, don't watch it alone :)
Although I am very happy with my 100 year old Henry Herbert , knowing what I know now, I would likely never attempt a free piano purchase again.
After inspecting nine "free" Marketplace pianos (and dragging home two) I finally did get lucky.
Most of the free pianos I have looked at were ones the homeowner will be paying to have removed.
For sure! It is one of those live and learn situations. But, in any case, I'm happy to hear that you got lucky and found one that is a viable instrument providing you with a rewarding musical experience. :)
Any tips on buying used digital?
I found a used Digital Casio AP-420. It’s got 4 speakers rated to 40W total power. I believe it’s been 10 years since released. I’m comparing it to a new Kawai KDP-75 and Casio PX-770. Owner selling for $950.
Is this a good deal compare to the other 2 model mentioned above?
I wouldn't recommend AP-420 as it is 10 years old. Think digital piano as computers. Would you spend $950 for a 10 year old computer? Not the newer version is always better. But in most case, newer version either new or used will be better. Personally I would go portable series for each brand. Roland FPXX , Yamaha PXXX, Kawai ESXXX. For the same price, the furniture version (i.e. KDP vs ES) is always worse than portable version.
How can you tell if all the tuning pins are still okay? I've seen some ads from people selling uprights and some mention honestly that two or more tuning pins are loose and can't be screwed tight anymore. So I'm just wondering if I can somehow check on this when looking at uprights? (To avoid buying one that will require expensive restoring or tuning pins)
Hi there! Thanks for the question! Ultimately, I would advise having a technician inspect the piano and the tuning pins when assessing a used piano's musical viability as well as the capability of the tuning pins to hold its tune.
@@MerriamPianos Thanks for the quick reply! Took my technician with me to inspect and found a beautiful secondhand Fazer :)
kijiji in Edmonton has a dozen of old pianos people are giving away free from grammas house
I would check the overall pitch first.
For sure! It is important to know that the piano is capable of tuning up to concert pitch, particularly if it is an older instrument.
Is a 20 year piano considered old? What do you think of a 20 year used kawai ust10 vs new k15 for similar price
A 20 year old piano might not sound as good as when it was new. That doesn't mean that it doesn't sound good at all, quite the contrary. I'm buying a Kawai from 1981 with everything original. Perfect state and sounds great. TLDR a 20 year old piano can sound just as good.
I was excited when an elderly couple gave me a Steinway upright. It seemed to be in decent shape considering its age(1893). Soundboard, plate, hammers, and strings are decent. Sadly, the action had brittled over time and unsalvagable. It still functions, but unless dishing out 10s of thousands for a new action(more than its worth) it will inevitably break apart.
Hello. I am in the market of buying a used upright. I found a Yamaha m1e and a Kawai cx4, both in pretty great shape. Which one should I get?
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! That is a difficult question to answer without being able to inspect and play the instruments in person. Pending they are in the same condition cosmetically and musically, it would ultimately come down to a matter of preference as both pianos will offer a slightly different flavour musically. :)
Thank you!
I fell in love with a German brand piano in the store that is 50 years old, but it looks and sounds amazing, as new. It's been repaired and adjusted and generally looks like it's been really well taken care of. Do you think purchasing this could be a mistake because of its age? Is it a risk?
@@elpolloesfuego Thanks. This one actually ended up having a few issues. I ended up investing a bit more and got a 25 year old August Förster. Very happy with it.
Like people some improve with age some not so.
If it plays to your satisfaction and you like it's looks and price then buy it and 😉 enjoy.
Question - Would you recommend - 1. Buying a new piano if you had a budged of about $20K or 2. Buy a refurbished/used piano for the same amount of money. The logic is that perhaps you can get a better piano for the same money even though its refurbished. Thanks for your answer!
Is it expensive to have the hammers replaced? Would it be worth it to buy a piano that has deep grooves in the felt in the middle range if it is in otherwise good condition?
It is very difficult to say without inspecting/assessing the exact instrument. My recommendation would be to get a trusted and experienced technician to assess the instrument in person and provide you with a quote for the work required to get the instrument back to a viable or desired state.
Okay, thank you for the response! Your videos are very helpful.
O😊 0:08 0:08 0:08 😊pooo😊😊
Thanks for tuning in! :)
Until a capable tech wrestles agreement between the various parts of your expensive 'hand-built' piano and its settled environment, to approximate through compromise 'fighting-trim', it will never realize its 'playing' potential, regardless of its youth or age.
All the while its 'material' potential is degrading (faster if it is not properly 'worked') because an 'off-set' geometry, and the physical stresses it 'adds' to the action, cause poor energy transmission, and impress their eccentricity slowly into the individual parts as undue wear.
There are certainly no absolutes when it comes to the piano industry in regard to the amount of post-delivery prep, work, voicing or regulation as every piano is different in terms of its durability and stability. With that said, being aware of any additional work you may want completed on your piano once it has arrived is always worth keeping in mind. :)
Untrue. Pianos are machines and every machine can be brought back to life. Nice tucked in shirt.
Any piano could be restored or rebuilt to be brought back to life. However, there is always the question of whether it is worth doing so and to what extend the original musical potential of the instrument will be restored.
Как можно трындеть 15 минут про пианино, но так и не сыграть ни одного аккорда на нем...?
Really hate it when you fill whole video with talk and never play the piano. Videos need more action, less talk!
Good info, but too much talking and not enough of specific
examples.
Don't buy any traditional acoustic piano. Look for a light weight recent model digital piano on Craig's list. Traditional pianos are for the most part obsolete aside from concert stage usage.
That couldn’t be more wrong. Playing a real piano is an amazing experience!
@@lefinlay i agree, but i wouldn't use that argument because every pianists end goal is the acoustic piano, and digital pianos just dont have what acoustics have
I've read some of your other posts on the Merriam Music channel and, yes, I can see that you really prefer digitals over acoustics. I'm going to take a chance here and say that you're perhaps a young(er) fellow, perhaps in your 20's, and likely don't take any structured lessons with a piano teacher. Although I do have a digital and I can see so many benefits of owning one my real goal is to eventually get myself into a living situation where I can acquire an acoustic grand. They are loud, true, but the touch, dynamics, control, overall feel are so much better. It definitely is a more complete musical experience. For now I must continue with my digital Roland.
Excuse me what ._.
@@piano-link LOL!