New Audi S3, better than the M135i / AMG A35 ?

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  • čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
  • My Instagram - / joeachilles
    Check out my brand CtrlandShift - www.ctrlandshift.com
    Adrian Flux Insurance (Who I use for my BMW M2) - nam01.safelinks.protection.ou...
    #Audi #Audis3 #joeachilles
    At last! Audi have mad an exciting Hot Hatch, I didn't want to give back this new Audi S3 Sportback.
    Thanks for watching as always, see you at at the next video!
    My 2nd CZcams channel - / @achillescarchatter6052
    Check out my new brand CtrlandShift -
    Website - www.ctrlandshift.com
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    DISCLAIMER:
    *Some footage from this video may be edited and or sped up for cinematic affects.
    *Some footage was also filmed on private land.
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Komentáře • 553

  • @JoeAchilles1
    @JoeAchilles1  Před 3 lety +163

    Hope this video brings some entertainment to an otherwise grey and stormy weekend (UK viewers anyways 😂). Genuine thanks for all the support in 2020, my channel success is down to all of you 🙌❤️

    • @stephenlane9168
      @stephenlane9168 Před 3 lety +4

      Nice. Well stated buddy 👌

    • @cpandsooz
      @cpandsooz Před 3 lety +1

      Going from strength to strength Joe. 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻

    • @mikekhan9138
      @mikekhan9138 Před 3 lety +2

      When are you driving the new golf R joe?

    • @dipeshpatel8974
      @dipeshpatel8974 Před 3 lety

      Joe This or the M135i? Also doesnt this just remind you of a big version of the A1 especially the backend?

    • @stephenlane9168
      @stephenlane9168 Před 3 lety +1

      @@dipeshpatel8974 not a bad thing. Looks classy. Great engine too

  • @teddym2808
    @teddym2808 Před rokem +14

    I'd give up the rear torque diff of the MK8 Golf R, spend more for slightly less power too, and choose this over it simply because it LOOKS good inside and out. And has real buttons and a proper climate section. Daily comfort matters to me.

  • @mozza7189
    @mozza7189 Před 3 lety +105

    So pleased for you Joe with the income you are receiving. I’m sure it will get better as well 😃

  • @bananahammock3664
    @bananahammock3664 Před 3 lety +77

    If ever a car had such obvious sound enhancement in the cabin, it's this! Completely silent from the outside, but sounds great from the cabin.

    • @Saif0412
      @Saif0412 Před 3 lety +26

      The thing is can we blame Audi? with those EU muppets killing sound and eventually going to kill the ICE altogether.

    • @CM.243
      @CM.243 Před 3 lety +7

      Not sure it does sound great in the cabin. I have the Golf R and it sounded good for all of about 30 minutes. Got an OBD11 and coded it way down to 15%, as 100% sounded way over the top.

    • @samcourt6228
      @samcourt6228 Před 3 lety +13

      Sounds pants from outside.
      People blame the regs, but Hyundai have fitted an OPF to their i30N and that still sounds pretty good for a turbocharged four pot.

    • @xIcarus227
      @xIcarus227 Před 3 lety

      @@samcourt6228 yeah it's this EA888 engine, it just doesn't sound good. It sounds like it's not happy to be revved.

    • @ickebins6948
      @ickebins6948 Před 3 lety

      @@Saif0412 Stay calm, you're out of the EU in 1 month...
      Then you can do what ever you want and the uk will be on top in no time aswell.
      Not even speaking about the car industry ...
      oh well sorry

  • @onenotesolo256
    @onenotesolo256 Před 3 lety +2

    Really enjoy your videos, Joe (M2 owner here). And well done for being so transparent about the YT income situation: I’m sure everyone who enjoys your plain speaking and nicely filmed videos will wish you the best for the channel in 2021.

  • @76sagman
    @76sagman Před 3 lety +21

    Always enjoy the reviews. You're very knowledgeable and come across genuine and enthusiastic and most importantly humble and grateful. Keep up the great content.

  • @kiwihame
    @kiwihame Před 3 lety +1

    Great to hear the channel is doing well for you Joe. The intro on this video alone confirms why. Your vids are superb; every day bloke real, but with great production values. Keep up the great work. Cheers from warm and sunny NZ.

  • @haichyou2930
    @haichyou2930 Před 3 lety +9

    Good for you, Joe. Nice to hear your channel is now providing you with a sustainable income. One of the nicest, most genuine guys on here

  • @darrencottrell5541
    @darrencottrell5541 Před 3 lety +3

    Awesome content Joe. I've followed you for years after first seeing you appear on one of Tim's videos, your content and videography have always been good and engaging. This one is on another level, immensely comprehensive with great footage, evidence of your growth as a presenter and that of the channel. Congratulations on the subs and the revenue to carry on making this top drawer stuff for us mere mortals, richly deserved for all your hard graft mate.

  • @frostiesboy123
    @frostiesboy123 Před 3 lety +4

    Congrats Joe on all the subscriptions and views man, definitely well deserved and I love how much content you are bringing out too! Awesome channel keep up the hard work 👊

  • @comeonman7423
    @comeonman7423 Před 3 lety +10

    Lovely introduction! First generation was also the car we lusted for when it came out, possibly the first premium hot hatch.
    Would be cool to see your review of the first and second generation S3

  • @carlrea
    @carlrea Před 3 lety +9

    Glad things are improving financially. Being in a similar industry to you it's really tough out there at the moment.

  • @Probeversion
    @Probeversion Před 3 lety

    Man I love seeing your channel grow and grow. Those subscription numbers are really exploding and you deserve it.

  • @gregster9239
    @gregster9239 Před 11 měsíci +1

    So relieved he is honest and isn’t lying to us throughout this video. Very informative thank you.

  • @cephasmakuzva
    @cephasmakuzva Před 3 lety +2

    I always watch both ads to just over 30 seconds and click on the link to give you the ad sense. Support and love the videos Joe.

  • @adabro
    @adabro Před 3 lety +3

    Great video as always, Joe, and really good to see how (deservedly) well this is going for you. Be interesting to watch a 'behind the scenes' video showing what camera equipment, software etc etc you're using these days

  • @stuartcooper3670
    @stuartcooper3670 Před 3 lety

    So pleased the channel is financially supporting you Joe, well deserved and best car content on CZcams

  • @simoncouldry7174
    @simoncouldry7174 Před 3 lety

    Glad to see you’re enjoying the roads around Great Chishill! Glad that CZcams is actually paying for the hard work that you’ve put in over the years! 👍🏻

  • @kgaugelosebidi1372
    @kgaugelosebidi1372 Před 3 lety +5

    Love how you covered the history/chronology of the A3 mate!

  • @StefABtv
    @StefABtv Před 3 lety +1

    Grear video buddy! This is a brilliant car. Had a lot of fun driving it today. Clinical in the wet. So much grip

  • @maxfrederick7703
    @maxfrederick7703 Před 3 lety +6

    Glad you’re now making a living doing your dream! Have loved watching your stuff so far 👍😊

  • @stefanjust1912
    @stefanjust1912 Před 3 lety +3

    Love the channel, please continue. Happy to hear it makes a living for you ! Try saying „foreshproong“, when referring to Vorsprung, if you want..

  • @damindra
    @damindra Před 3 lety +2

    Great vid Joe! brought a big of sunshine to this dreary day in the UK!!!

  • @205500830
    @205500830 Před 3 lety +4

    Love the intro... you took us back to the first gen in 1999 👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿

  • @gureno19
    @gureno19 Před 3 lety +26

    I think its pretty well known at this point that the Audi S3 and Golf R are at their best with a simple stage 1 tune and become exactly what they should have been from factory.

    • @Keegan3005
      @Keegan3005 Před 9 měsíci +2

      completely agree!

    • @da_great_mogul
      @da_great_mogul Před 6 měsíci

      Never mess with an engine. It was designed to be how it is by learned engineers for a reason.

    • @gureno19
      @gureno19 Před 6 měsíci +1

      @@da_great_mogul wrong, engines are hamstrung by various things like emissions controls and state of tunes for different markets.
      The EA888 has less power in "hot weather" markets such as Australia as an example when compared to Europe, despite the actual weather being similar in temperature during summer
      Additionally engines are downtuned to ensure they don't sit too close to other more expensive models in the manufacturers line up.

    • @da_great_mogul
      @da_great_mogul Před 6 měsíci

      @@gureno19 You've answered my concern: a more expensive model such as the SQ5 vs. standard Q5 with the same engine (i.e., 3.0 TFSI) will have different componentry to support that extra power in PS terms. For example, the discs and pads will be different, the the suspension parts will be different and the air intake and air filter may also be different. So in upgrading your standard Q5 into an SQ5 with regards to PS output is only valid if you do the rest of the upgrades as per the SQ5 spec too. However, in most cases people will not. They will want the extra power but not worry about the other upgrades required to achieve balance. Tens of millions of pounds of R&D from qualified automotive engineers is lost the minute you think you know better than them. Another example: upgrade the size of your rims and you should also recalibrate your speedo. No one does though do they?

    • @gureno19
      @gureno19 Před 6 měsíci

      @@da_great_mogul
      You didn't read my example correctly, I was referring to an S3 with the exact same engine and drivetrain, but down tuned based on region.

  • @Sa3Tv
    @Sa3Tv Před 3 lety +2

    Waited for this vlog... was definitely worth the wait for sure! I'd be interested to see what my generation S3 ( 8v ) is like compared to the newer S3 🏁🏁

  • @fannieditshego6532
    @fannieditshego6532 Před 3 lety +1

    Your reviews are very very good Joe, very thorough, very informative. Keep up the good job

  • @zainulaabideenmulla
    @zainulaabideenmulla Před 3 lety +1

    Great video as always, been looking forward to this one. Hoping to put an order in for one soon so good to get a ‘real world’ review.

  • @supersliicks725
    @supersliicks725 Před 3 lety +1

    Glad you're making it Joe. You're enjoyable to watch

  • @amwajameen
    @amwajameen Před 3 lety +52

    Mate, please try to get hold of the new GR YARIS. we need a review of it ASAP🙏🙏

    • @1210mk5g
      @1210mk5g Před 3 lety +8

      Joe is too tall for the GR Yaris. He'd have to drive with his head out the window like Ace Ventura.

    • @CoopersSpecC
      @CoopersSpecC Před 3 lety

      @@1210mk5g How tall is he.....

    • @jensenkingsland1946
      @jensenkingsland1946 Před 3 lety

      @@CoopersSpecC 6,4

    • @darrenhumphries7051
      @darrenhumphries7051 Před 3 lety +2

      Watch Mat Watsons review on Carwow

    • @adamkhan5274
      @adamkhan5274 Před 3 lety +3

      Exactly what I was thinking. Saw Matts review but tbh would prefer Joe's opinion on it.

  • @jimrowley6961
    @jimrowley6961 Před 3 lety

    Loved the review. Thank you. Getting my new S3 saloon in Daytona Grey in a couple of weeks!!!!!! Literally counting the days. Will be sad to see my S1 go, but need something a little bigger (and quicker) with a growing family.......

  • @Davoet
    @Davoet Před 3 lety +1

    great to hear youre making a living of your vids!

  • @garyfrench6536
    @garyfrench6536 Před 3 lety

    Enjoying your videos having randomly found them. I think you're a local boy as I'm certain I recognise a few of the roads you drive in this video. Anyway all the best and keep it up.

  • @xaviersariceable
    @xaviersariceable Před 3 lety

    Top vid...its the quietness is the thing that takes getting use to.. the pumped in sound is nice....

  • @jezavison663
    @jezavison663 Před 3 lety

    Thanks for this video Joe, it kept me going whilst I was waiting for the exact same spec car to arrive. Picked it up last Friday and love it!

  • @PANN1Cau
    @PANN1Cau Před 3 lety +1

    Awesome been waiting to see your review since you put up the photos on Insta.

  • @ghowells5433
    @ghowells5433 Před 3 lety +1

    Great video. I bought a rs3 sport edition following watching one of your reviews, thinking about part ex for a rs4 sport edition. Would you recommend for a bit more fun and sound as the 2020 rs3 is pretty quiet

  • @barringtonbig9203
    @barringtonbig9203 Před 3 lety +1

    Joe’s smashing it these days...such a likeable bloke👍

  • @f00lxpl
    @f00lxpl Před 3 lety +62

    Audi designer: How many fake vents do you want?
    VW CEO: Yes!!

    • @senoow4215
      @senoow4215 Před 3 lety +1

      Golf R now has more HP also 👀

  • @raulquinteros8083
    @raulquinteros8083 Před 3 lety

    I love all of your videos Joe !!! congratulations from Argentina for your great job !!!

  • @stephenthompson7558
    @stephenthompson7558 Před 2 lety +2

    Love the videos, just in the process of trying to decide between getting an M135i or S3! Driven both over the last 2-3 weeks over different roads etc and both have good points. Love the heads up on the BMW but not available on the normal spec S3. Seats and steering wheel I think are better in BMW but like the S3 looks more.

  • @timwatkins6641
    @timwatkins6641 Před rokem +3

    I’m placing an order on this S3 today based on your superb review Joe.
    I was worried about the passive suspension but after test driving one last week and your comments I worry no more ! It’s Daytona grey for me with the 19” wheels…. Unfortunately a 5 month build wait but I’ve my Golf R to keep me amused until then.
    Cheers buddy.

    • @MrjavoiThe
      @MrjavoiThe Před rokem

      How is going with your S3 so far?

    • @timwatkins6641
      @timwatkins6641 Před rokem +2

      @@MrjavoiThe it’s starting to loosen up after gentle start and now with 700 miles on the clock I’ve been letting it go a bit. It’s a very precise drive and maybe too clinical. It lacks the enhanced booming engine noise of the R which I’m missing a little even in Dynamic mode. The 19” wheels also ride better than I expected on the passive set up.
      The gear changes are seamless and almost continuous power and pull through the sequence. It’s a an effortless and polished drive …maybe too much so.

  • @NandoCamek
    @NandoCamek Před rokem +1

    looks nice, but heard that the steering has no feedback, or rather numb? can it have park assist allowing the car to park in a narrow garage?

  • @anantmehrotra4868
    @anantmehrotra4868 Před měsícem

    Excellent review, everything is seamlessly delivered

  • @SO-oq8sl
    @SO-oq8sl Před 3 lety +1

    Top review mate! keep up the awesome work!

  • @chrisward1782
    @chrisward1782 Před 3 lety +1

    Fantastic viewing as always Joe. Current owner of the 8v S3 & really was in 2 minds about this one. However I think you’ve swayed me slightly. Golf R will be an interesting watch

  • @philjamesdrummer1870
    @philjamesdrummer1870 Před 3 lety +6

    Love the videos Joe! How's the choice of M3 choice coming on??

  • @malcolmscott4150
    @malcolmscott4150 Před 3 lety +2

    Great review Joe - beautiful looking car

  • @martinbonham1469
    @martinbonham1469 Před 3 lety

    An other lovely video Joe, lovely roads as well, I only live about 5 miles away from there and there a pleasure to drive in the summertime...Keep up the great work👍

  • @jurtbreitfeld6842
    @jurtbreitfeld6842 Před 3 lety +1

    You CAN get an head up display, and the digital driver display is also option you can get bigger than the one you have

  • @neilwhittaker8021
    @neilwhittaker8021 Před 3 lety

    Nice Motor loving the soundtrack 👌. Look forward to seeing you review the new SQ7 TSFI...in the future.

  • @NickG24
    @NickG24 Před 3 lety +2

    Great review as always, looks like a nice car. I kind of like the tiny gear shift, don’t think anyone ever uses the stick to shift backwards and forwards. For me the fact that the manual mode isn’t proper manual would be annoying. I personally still don’t get the perception that just because a plastic is hard, it’s cheap or not a good fit or finish. We’re obsessed with soft touch materials for some reason but they aren’t as hard wearing.

  • @barringtonbig9203
    @barringtonbig9203 Před 3 lety

    Joes refined, well spoken, with just enough crazy to get a good review

  • @danielchapman
    @danielchapman Před 3 lety +1

    Which one of the premium hot hatches would you buy? I’ve been looking to keep under 40k (not giving hmrc more than I have to). Audi seems more expensive to buy cheaper to insure and vice versa for the m135i . Haven’t had the chance to look at the A45

  • @eliotsalandybrown
    @eliotsalandybrown Před 3 lety +1

    Joe massive congratulations at passing over to full time youtuber! What an achievement 🥂 Looking forward to the content to come. Watch Raz Mr AMG.

  • @hristohristov8787
    @hristohristov8787 Před 3 lety

    Thanks for the quality review Joe👍

  • @richardpearson6774
    @richardpearson6774 Před 3 lety +2

    The interior of the new A3 is unbelievable 👏 looking at change my wives seat Ibiza to the new A3 Edition 1 spec, may look at the new S3 as an upgrade on my Q3 later next year.

  • @pjmoody
    @pjmoody Před 3 lety

    Another great video Joe. Thanks for sharing.

  • @VSTV1993
    @VSTV1993 Před 3 lety +1

    14:52 abs kicks in and i'm like let me do my thing 😂

  • @callumrook2427
    @callumrook2427 Před 3 lety

    The best angle for me is certainly the back of it with the twin dual exhausts finishing it off nicely

  • @bcdrummer1962
    @bcdrummer1962 Před 3 lety +1

    Very nice car (and very good review as usual Joe). Just want to say, for those in the buying process right now, that I am totally satisfied with, and totally loving, my loaded A35 (including a HUD). It's a fkn great car and you should check it out before buying.

  • @cyrose1935
    @cyrose1935 Před 3 lety +1

    Congratulations to you Joe 👊🏽👊🏽

  • @Initialgs
    @Initialgs Před 3 lety

    Another great video fella. Always look forward to your new releases. Out of interest you going to give the new Yaris GR a go? Be interesting to see what you think if you do, you may just like it... a lot....

  • @derektoms3729
    @derektoms3729 Před 3 lety

    Great video,one wee question is there room for a space saver wheel in the boot well

  • @Holdeenio
    @Holdeenio Před 3 lety +1

    Congratulations Joe, well earned. The content and personality has continued to come across since I followed you back with only 000s of subscribers 👌🏼

  • @jtwitchett
    @jtwitchett Před 3 lety

    Another brilliant review. Thanks Joe

  • @bigboost2641
    @bigboost2641 Před 3 lety +1

    Nice review Joe!

  • @pepeaguilarramos6700
    @pepeaguilarramos6700 Před 3 lety

    Excellent review, has all what I expect. Good work...! 😉

  • @squizwald11
    @squizwald11 Před 3 lety

    Test drove the last-gen S3 manual with the intention to lease but found it to be drab and disconnected to drive. Nowhere near as fun as my Mini despite being much more powerful. The new Focus ST was better but still not as good as my Cooper S F56. What would you recommend as a 4/5 door replacement @joeachillies ???

  • @stujones2966
    @stujones2966 Před 3 lety +1

    Joe which would you buy then S3 or M135i

  • @petersmart7656
    @petersmart7656 Před 3 lety +1

    Great review joe thanks 👍🏻

  • @markhyoutube
    @markhyoutube Před 3 lety

    Awesome review Joe! I'm on the hunt for a new car and having owned the previous generation A3, I really enjoyed that car and thought the build quality was excellent, so excited to drive this S3. I've been looking at the M340i, which, for a nearly new one on Autotrader, is cheaper than the s3. Whats better? Looking for fast, family car, so what would you choose?

  • @matthewallen2725
    @matthewallen2725 Před 3 lety

    Great video as always joe 👍🏻

  • @cecilperera7934
    @cecilperera7934 Před rokem

    Great information and test drive! I have ordered the saloon model would that experience be the same handling

  • @chrisbryer-ash1020
    @chrisbryer-ash1020 Před 3 lety

    Have a q3 with audi currently, very tempted to get myself a new s3, this video may have tempted me to commit!

  • @NicholasSadlier
    @NicholasSadlier Před 3 lety +1

    I'm with the flies - I love that paintwork!

  • @davidcupra4913
    @davidcupra4913 Před 3 lety +1

    Great review joe. I still think u preferred that cupra R st 🤗

  • @zainb2261
    @zainb2261 Před 3 lety

    Surprised they didn’t option the rear camera on the press car. I’ve really enjoyed my 15 s3 sedan. With the bolt ons and tune+traction control turned all off on a backroad=fun times.

  • @X2TRK
    @X2TRK Před 3 lety

    I thought I was watching RBR for a second 😳 all them retro shots and tech details

  • @marcusgreen9350
    @marcusgreen9350 Před 3 lety

    Hi joe your content is just getting better and better brought one of your t shirts and mag mount both spot on 3xl would be good 😁 all the best for the future 😀.

  • @malph9216
    @malph9216 Před 3 lety +6

    Great review Joe. I'm a great lover of Audi's "sleeper" S cars....this and the S8 definitely fall into that category - apart from that dreadful Turbo Blue paint, which I hate with a passion. If you want to be shouty about the performance of your car, buy a Focus RS or a Civic Type R......but having to drive around with a brown paper bag on your head is no fun😉

  • @carllynch8798
    @carllynch8798 Před 3 lety

    I had the first generation S3 but the 225 back in 2003 ! RJ52XSR was the reg loved that car. Part-xd it for the B5 RS4 in 2006 which I still own today.
    Great vid Joe.

  • @MM-zc9uq
    @MM-zc9uq Před 3 lety +2

    Clear, informative review. Think you’ve identified a number of pretty significant issues - a polite no thanks is the message I’m getting...

  • @gavinhall4112
    @gavinhall4112 Před 3 lety +2

    As you say, a real shame that there's no HUD. After driving an M135i with one for a few hours, HUDs went right to the top of the wishlist for my next car. Great review buddy.

    • @galaxystar8232
      @galaxystar8232 Před rokem +1

      The s3 comes with a HUD idk why he says it doesnt, my dads vorsprung modell has it

  • @freesyria7863
    @freesyria7863 Před 3 lety +62

    Looks like a enlarged 2019 2020 A1 no innovation went into this shape in my opinion.

    • @Jordlaa100
      @Jordlaa100 Před 3 lety

      When I saw the first I genuinely thought it was an A1 coming towards me.

    • @reds005
      @reds005 Před 3 lety +3

      Yes very A1 ish from the rear

    • @Cwookie_
      @Cwookie_ Před 3 lety +9

      It's like car enthousiasts are never satistfied... When nothing changes and car companies stick to their style there is "lack of innovation" and when car companies change stuff like with the new BMW 1 series everyone goes nuts because they ditched the traditional BMW style!

    • @noisyplanet3397
      @noisyplanet3397 Před 3 lety +7

      @@Cwookie_ Lol. These people are crazy. The Audi A3 looks great, but the BMW is a bit of a let down.

  • @blackflagpirate3444
    @blackflagpirate3444 Před 3 lety

    Great heritage! Audi’s 0-60 times are always under quoted.My MK2 TTs before the tune did 0-60mph in 4.9secs the quoted time with the S tronic gear box was 5.2 secs.On the REVO stage one does 0-60mhp in 4.2 secs now.

  • @ew10j4turbo
    @ew10j4turbo Před 3 lety

    Best review for the s3 at the moment!

  • @bogdanobogeanu5758
    @bogdanobogeanu5758 Před 3 lety

    Happy for you if you can do what you like and live from this 😊😊

  • @adrianthomas4783
    @adrianthomas4783 Před 3 lety

    The Golf 8R has yet to be released for order in the UK,released in Europe on 5th November with the UK expected to follow soon after but still not happened yet.

  • @gregkerr5062
    @gregkerr5062 Před 2 lety

    Top class review , really know your stuff

  • @philrodgers1043
    @philrodgers1043 Před 3 lety

    Grant video Joe....keep the content coming!

  • @richardgoodman6071
    @richardgoodman6071 Před 3 lety

    Keep up the good work Joe 💪🏼

  • @Valdakyr
    @Valdakyr Před 3 lety

    Totally loved the 'history lesson'. Really great to see how it evolved.

  • @audiocosmonaut3883
    @audiocosmonaut3883 Před 3 lety

    0:55 Music to my ears 💯

  • @lp6627
    @lp6627 Před 3 lety +1

    Love this Sound in a S3.

  • @agood1280
    @agood1280 Před 3 lety

    Hi great video keep up the good work.
    Will probably be changing myself in another year.
    I currently have a GTi TCR
    I must not be as tough a driver as you 😁as the gearbox changing gear does not bother me.

  • @peterw616
    @peterw616 Před 3 lety

    great review Joe! :)

  • @Ranilperera1
    @Ranilperera1 Před 3 lety

    Awesome review! Any idea when the new RS3 will be out?

  • @ridekonastuff
    @ridekonastuff Před 3 lety +1

    I definitely recognise that B Road is it the B1039?

  • @HighHoeKermit
    @HighHoeKermit Před 3 lety

    The chrome mirrors on the old S3 was actually an optional extra in the UK, so not always a giveaway.