Sir you are showing us the whole truth of a machinist,from setup preparation then programming then machining then solving problems then deburing.i am a big follower of your knowledge and work sir.thanks for showing us the problems and solutions.
Talk about above and beyond... From custom tool grinding to bore polishing... They've got to be happy with that... Always good watching the intense detail work. From one side of the beltway to another, Always good watchin!
So cool to see you work with all the best at the shop and get it done with home shop type machinery too. The skills shine through at both places. Thanks
Nice video! Thanks for the footage of your HAAS TM-1 at your home shop. I have a 2007 HAAS TM-1P that I purchased new with the Renishaw Wireless Probe and Tool Setter.. It still runs great and I make a lot of prototype parts on it. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. John
CLEARLY Peter got the memo from makita that the keyless chuck is not the most efficient at .254" (Waay off), not .2505 (Pretty off), but .2500 +/- a tenth..... Lol
Actually as it turned out I didn't need to turn it at all. The Makita would hold the .375 dia. But I was thinking to hold it in a die grinder or my NSK grinder. So those collets would work better with the .250 shank.
@@EdgePrecision I was actually thinking to myself while watching you turn the shank that you're probably going to use a shrink fit toolholder. Imagine my surprise.
29:15 I rebuilt the Kohler motor for my Cub Cadet. We used a three arm honing stone to bore it .030 over. We had it set up so the drill could rest on the table in a puddle of oil and slide back and forth. It took me and my bud three cases of beer to tag team it for three nights. It was a ton of fun and runs great today. :)
Nice job Peter, you can clearly see the improvement in the bore finish which were already very good. The borescope images of the ring gauges and the apparent "roughness" of those lapped finishes, maybe your customer could learn something from that if that is the way they are inspecting the part.
This part looks like a MASTERPIECE, man. I love to watch video of passionate workers like you. I am curious : If you're allowed to disclose about it, what is that part intended for? NASA project? Nuclear reactor? Anyways, certainly a Hi-Tech project !
As a younger guy that makes use / abuses the more modern tech at my disposal. I would think part of my course of action in this situation would be too 3d print a guide plate plate for the tool. Since I am very aware of how my handing holding of a tool will not yeild the accurate result needed. (I can do a lot of detail work accurately, but this isn't one i trust myself to get right. At least not without adding a new bald spot from pulling hair out).
Hi Peter. Nice job. Just a thought, Some of the ready-made hones have a flexible shaft or a universal joint so the weight and direction of the tool won't affect the working end so much.
Thanks Arne. The closest thing that could work is Sunnen’s valve guide hone. But the hone isn’t long enough. There is a clearance issue with the holes being so close to the walls and so deep in the bore. So it would have to be custom. Also it looks like it may not get right to the bottom of the hole. Honing would still require the polishing tool after honing. The honing guys I know all run emery cloth/paper between the hones stones and the bore to get the final polish.
Thanks for sharing Peter, well done as always. I'd like to see what the print called out for surface finish in those bores. Seems like they put you into some subjective interpretation area of "eye appeal". Always impossible to meet such expectations until there is a discussion I suppose. Hope you are making so much on those parts that this is just an expected SOP to pass inspection. Was it fun to go work in the garage shop??
Ya love that hone. If you need real precision the sunnen hone all and its arced stones are great. a strain relief hanging drill support. also a good idea, that tool dose a great job getting down in those blind holes. And the uniform pressure the soft durometer rubber looks like it cuts well . cant say i have seen anything like that, and can honestly say I can think of a few things I'm gonna try those on. could be a real time saver thanks peter
Thanks! you could use it. The issue with most hones is the clearance inside the bore. And than of course the way to hold things straight. There is a attachment to hold a Sunnen type hone in a drill press. Maybe that could be adapted to this application. But that would take a lot of extra stuff.
Just curious. If you have ever seen a sunnen valve guide hone setup. Goodson tools sells them. Not cheap. I dont know if they can polish like you are doing it's just a thought.
That could possibly work if it's long enough to reach into the bore. Also if it could get down to the flat bottom of the hole. It also costs $850.00. A lot of money to spend not knowing if it would work.
@@EdgePrecision i totally agree.. but i thought i would let you know they exist.. the mandrels are interchangeable. and if you had the driver and a mandrel.. you might be able to create long ones to fit your needs.. you might stop by a local cylinder head rebuilding shop or engine rebuilding shop and ask if they have one you could examine.
Hey peter, do you know if the mazatrol has a seperate real-time plc for the motion and logic, or is it truly windows based? I think that the DMG Celos is a windows over fanuc, siemens or hiedenhain, but I am not sure about the okuma or mazak windows based controls. Have you ever worried about the potential security vulnerabilities of legacy systems?
All Mazaks really have Mitsubishi Meldas controls. In fact if I buy parts for this machine. I get them from Mitsubishi electric. So the windows computer is just for the Mazatrol control.
Man the amount of work and time that has gone into this part is impressive. Are these videos just now getting published and the part has been completed? Or has it really taken (what seems like 6 months) to progress to the point your currently at on it?
There have been some of the parts already delivered and others in different stages of completion. I don't do all the operations to this part. There is a weld prep I do. Than the part goes out for welding than pressure test than inspection than more machine work and so on. Just the final inspection (over 1200 data sheeted dimensions) and deburr takes over three weeks. This may give you a idea of why these seem to be taking a while to complete.
What is the common method to inspect the surface roughness inside the port? Especially if its very deep inside. Can you inspect it visually only (non destructive, i.e cutting the part in half?)
Using a profilometer is the most accurate method. If that can’t be done then usually a visual comparison to a finish standard is used. But that is more of an interpretive method. Up to the inspector. If you can cut the part in half and use the profilometer it would be the most accurate.
In the 50's we used to polish out model steam engine cylinder bores with a split cork mounted on a long stick.....first a touch of grinding paste then some Brasso to get it polished.
When I started it was an 18" hook scale, file board and a set of hermorphradite calipers! Had to work a week to buy my first Sears Micrometer! Casing Heads and Flange Tees. Old school almost grown up! Times they are changing!
This could work. It would take a custom one because of the clearance problems in the bore. It just take so long to get the tool. I should have ordered one 6 months ago. But I didn't so this is what I ended up with.
Sir peter .. do you have any thoughts about titan gilroy having a brand new machines coming in to his company these past few weeks? His getting bigger and bigger with those beast
@@capnthepeafarmer It's mostly the collets that cause insurances. Big Diashowa also makes precision ER collets. They are expensive but if your process needs it. The collet chucks I use at work are better but they are expensive. Just putting a better collet in anyone's collet chuck would be better. The thing also about better collet chucks is their nuts and if they have thrust bearings in them. This can prevent twisting the collet as you tighten it.
Edge Precision that makes total sense now, I could never figure out why my ER and SK collets would have so much run out. I would tighten them, put them in the spindle and measure the runout, if it was too high, back off then tighten again and the runout was better. I guess at a certain point the collet twists instead of compresses. Thanks again!
Just checking up on you again. Not trying to be a pain in the butt but I haven't heard from you in awhile hope everything's okay. Looking forward to your next video
Thanks Don. I have just been real busy (Thank God!). I have been working on the same parts that I have made many videos on. So I need something new. I do have things in the works so to speak. I have ordered a new plasma cutter and table to do somethings. I may make some videos on that. This C19 thing has me a little bummed out and the lies surrounding it are getting tiresome. Fortunately in Houston Texas things are not really locked down. We only have to wear masks in public. This in it self sort of restricts my activity. I just don't go do things because of it.
@@EdgePrecision thank you for responding Peter. The plasma cutter sounds interesting can't wait for them videos. I agree with the c-19 situation. I live about 4 miles outside of St Louis and all the reports are saying but the new cases are worse than they were in the beginning. I believe we're about to go back to full lock down again. Anyway thanks for responding and I really enjoy your videos.
Peter, I've got a question for you, suppose you've got a spherical cavity say 3/4" inner dia, how can one measure it accurately? It has an access of around 1/2" on two sides
I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying you have a spherical shape .750" in diameter with a .50" hole intersecting it? You want to measure this thru the .50" hole?
Do you just need to check the major diameter or the actual spherical shape. The model Mitutoyo 209-352 internal dial caliper would reach thru the hole and be able to check the .750 Diameter.
These holes have o-ring seals. They actually don't need this kind of finish to function. The customer will reject the part so it's necessary to keep the customer happy.
To lap it would work also. But there is the issue of being that far into the bore. Because every time you want to check things it is necessary to thoroughly clean out the abrasive out of the hole. So I wanted to just use sand paper to reduce this cleaning issue.
When they're paying tens of thousands of dollars for that single part, they don't need a reason. LOL. All joking aside, I believe he said they receive another part that has orings. Not that that matters.
The finish is specified on the drawing. He said they inspect for finish and reject any parts that don't meet the finish called out. I'd guess from that the finish is required if he wants to be paid.
If the employer does not care about the cost, a good finish won't hurt in this application so "why not". Also the designed probably did not want to be the judge or have the expertize to call an appropriate finish anyway.
Its some kind of oilfield down hole instrument. There are many other parts that go to the whole assembly. This is just the body. I don't really know what it does.
Maybe with some very specialized tooling that I don't have. A special burnishing tool might work. If I had ordered it 6 months ago I might have it now.
That could be possible. But on my machine I cant do anything with the doors open. And this kind of thing would be difficult having to open and close the doors all the time. I think a custom burnishing tool could be a way. But I should have ordered it six months ago. I didn't so here I am.
@@EdgePrecision Have you tried a ball hone for similar applications? I have had good luck using them manually and it would be interesting to see how they work out w/ cnc
I wanted to have the option to hold the tool in a grinders collet chuck if necessary. Didn't even need the .250 shank for the 1/2" drills chuck. As it turned out it wasn't necessary.
Glad you didn’t settle for .2508 for the part that went in the drill chuck. ;-)
LOL when he measured it over and I heard the button pressing I KNEW he was going to take it to .2498
I wanted to have the option to hold this in the collet chuck on my NSK grinder. It turned out not to necessary.
Sir you are showing us the whole truth of a machinist,from setup preparation then programming then machining then solving problems then deburing.i am a big follower of your knowledge and work sir.thanks for showing us the problems and solutions.
You seem like your getting to solve problem after problem, I love those types of projects. Thanks for sharing.
I love how messy your workstation is. Makes me feel a lot better about the state of my machine shop 🤣
Talk about above and beyond... From custom tool grinding to bore polishing... They've got to be happy with that...
Always good watching the intense detail work.
From one side of the beltway to another,
Always good watchin!
So cool to see you work with all the best at the shop and get it done with home shop type machinery too. The skills shine through at both places. Thanks
Some interesting tools and techniques - stored away for future use. Thanks for showing them in detail.
Yea, it’s just machine work! But just to the edge of perfection. A master class!
Thanks Peter, your capability is inspiring and producing these videos is very much appreciated. Cheers
This is why Pete makes the big bux boys and gals
Nice video! Thanks for the footage of your HAAS TM-1 at your home shop. I have a 2007 HAAS TM-1P that I purchased new with the Renishaw Wireless Probe and Tool Setter.. It still runs great and I make a lot of prototype parts on it.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
John
At 32:38 it is easy to see the difference between the polished and non polished holes, nice job, a good old handmade thumbs up.
Truly impressive, thank you for sharing with us your knowledge, Peter.
Im pretty sure you've exceeded in succeeding in your objective. Good job.
Always intriguing to watch your solutions.
Thank you.
CLEARLY Peter got the memo from makita that the keyless chuck is not the most efficient at .254" (Waay off), not .2505 (Pretty off), but .2500 +/- a tenth..... Lol
Actually as it turned out I didn't need to turn it at all. The Makita would hold the .375 dia. But I was thinking to hold it in a die grinder or my NSK grinder. So those collets would work better with the .250 shank.
@@EdgePrecision Well I am just poking fun at your habitual accuracy, mostly because I am jealous and miss the number all the time on my lathe.... :)
@@EdgePrecision I was actually thinking to myself while watching you turn the shank that you're probably going to use a shrink fit toolholder. Imagine my surprise.
@@sniperasys Never try to second guess a Prototype Master Machinist / Tool & Die Pro!
They always have an extra tweek or two!
29:15 I rebuilt the Kohler motor for my Cub Cadet. We used a three arm honing stone to bore it .030 over. We had it set up so the drill could rest on the table in a puddle of oil and slide back and forth. It took me and my bud three cases of beer to tag team it for three nights. It was a ton of fun and runs great today. :)
Such a complex part ..... no mistakes allowed.
That is very impressive work . Attention to detail. Bravo Sir 👍👍👍
Watching you work there ~ you would have made a great dentist 😬
Truly amazing workmanship. Are we allowed to ask what this part is for?
Peter,
I've recently subscribed to your channel.
I am very pleased that i have, enjoyed this video.
Take care
Paul,,
Pretty parts are good parts. Like flames on cars, certainly makes it go faster.
They use to say if you can't make it right at least make it look good.
Nice job Peter, you can clearly see the improvement in the bore finish which were already very good. The borescope images of the ring gauges and the apparent "roughness" of those lapped finishes, maybe your customer could learn something from that if that is the way they are inspecting the part.
Thanks Bill.
Shiny as frig... Smooth work, as always!
This part looks like a MASTERPIECE, man. I love to watch video of passionate workers like you. I am curious : If you're allowed to disclose about it, what is that part intended for? NASA project? Nuclear reactor? Anyways, certainly a Hi-Tech project !
No sorry. When I got permission to do videos from this customer it was with the understanding that I would not say what the parts did.
@@EdgePrecision I understand, that's fine. Thanks anyway.
Once again very nice Peter!
Thanks Peter for the video enjoy all content.
Wow! That's some serious polishing!
What does that part do, that you're polishing?
Thanks! :)
Analog mic, great video and editing
This bugger had better fly, all the work you've put in...!
As a younger guy that makes use / abuses the more modern tech at my disposal. I would think part of my course of action in this situation would be too 3d print a guide plate plate for the tool. Since I am very aware of how my handing holding of a tool will not yeild the accurate result needed. (I can do a lot of detail work accurately, but this isn't one i trust myself to get right. At least not without adding a new bald spot from pulling hair out).
i wonder what the price is for these axles ......
A lot of time and handwork on those parts. Going to be big $$$$$
How do you a get stuff done at
Home with out 6 axis machine
And CNC tool cutter grinder and
Overhead crane
Hi Peter. Nice job. Just a thought, Some of the ready-made hones have a flexible shaft or a universal joint so the weight and direction of the tool won't affect the working end so much.
Thanks Arne. The closest thing that could work is Sunnen’s valve guide hone. But the hone isn’t long enough. There is a clearance issue with the holes being so close to the walls and so deep in the bore. So it would have to be custom. Also it looks like it may not get right to the bottom of the hole. Honing would still require the polishing tool after honing. The honing guys I know all run emery cloth/paper between the hones stones and the bore to get the final polish.
Easy to see the difference.I like it.
Thanks for sharing Peter, well done as always. I'd like to see what the print called out for surface finish in those bores. Seems like they put you into some subjective interpretation area of "eye appeal". Always impossible to meet such expectations until there is a discussion I suppose. Hope you are making so much on those parts that this is just an expected SOP to pass inspection.
Was it fun to go work in the garage shop??
Ya love that hone. If you need real precision the sunnen hone all and its arced stones are great. a strain relief hanging drill support. also a good idea, that tool dose a great job getting down in those blind holes. And the uniform pressure the soft durometer rubber looks like it cuts well . cant say i have seen anything like that, and can honestly say I can think of a few things I'm gonna try those on. could be a real time saver thanks peter
Thanks! you could use it. The issue with most hones is the clearance inside the bore. And than of course the way to hold things straight. There is a attachment to hold a Sunnen type hone in a drill press. Maybe that could be adapted to this application. But that would take a lot of extra stuff.
@@EdgePrecision Ya exactly , this type of examination of sizing / surface finish stimulates the thought process to save money time and shop space
very good video..thanks for your time
You can put two little magnets between screws to be easily mountet sand paper.
Just curious. If you have ever seen a sunnen valve guide hone setup. Goodson tools sells them. Not cheap. I dont know if they can polish like you are doing it's just a thought.
That could possibly work if it's long enough to reach into the bore. Also if it could get down to the flat bottom of the hole. It also costs $850.00. A lot of money to spend not knowing if it would work.
@@EdgePrecision i totally agree.. but i thought i would let you know they exist.. the mandrels are interchangeable. and if you had the driver and a mandrel.. you might be able to create long ones to fit your needs.. you might stop by a local cylinder head rebuilding shop or engine rebuilding shop and ask if they have one you could examine.
Hey peter, do you know if the mazatrol has a seperate real-time plc for the motion and logic, or is it truly windows based? I think that the DMG Celos is a windows over fanuc, siemens or hiedenhain, but I am not sure about the okuma or mazak windows based controls. Have you ever worried about the potential security vulnerabilities of legacy systems?
All Mazaks really have Mitsubishi Meldas controls. In fact if I buy parts for this machine. I get them from Mitsubishi electric. So the windows computer is just for the Mazatrol control.
To add to that, earlier mazaks don't have any windows based anything. It's all proprietary (Mitsubishi) stuff.
Man the amount of work and time that has gone into this part is impressive. Are these videos just now getting published and the part has been completed? Or has it really taken (what seems like 6 months) to progress to the point your currently at on it?
There have been some of the parts already delivered and others in different stages of completion. I don't do all the operations to this part. There is a weld prep I do. Than the part goes out for welding than pressure test than inspection than more machine work and so on. Just the final inspection (over 1200 data sheeted dimensions) and deburr takes over three weeks. This may give you a idea of why these seem to be taking a while to complete.
Looks great.
What is the common method to inspect the surface roughness inside the port? Especially if its very deep inside. Can you inspect it visually only (non destructive, i.e cutting the part in half?)
Using a profilometer is the most accurate method. If that can’t be done then usually a visual comparison to a finish standard is used. But that is more of an interpretive method. Up to the inspector. If you can cut the part in half and use the profilometer it would be the most accurate.
Amazing video 👍 would a rubber or nylon barrel expanding type of abrasive be more self centering alternative.
In the 50's we used to polish out model steam engine cylinder bores with a split cork mounted on a long stick.....first a touch of grinding paste then some Brasso to get it polished.
What type of bore scope system are you using. I have a Hawkeye bore scope. Like to get a bigger view on small holes. Thank you.
maybe i dont want to get into parts i cant qc with a 6" caliper lol. great job!
When I started it was an 18" hook scale, file board and a set of hermorphradite calipers! Had to work a week to buy my first Sears Micrometer!
Casing Heads and Flange Tees.
Old school almost grown up!
Times they are changing!
Is roller burnishing an option for this application?
This could work. It would take a custom one because of the clearance problems in the bore. It just take so long to get the tool. I should have ordered one 6 months ago. But I didn't so this is what I ended up with.
nice editing. keep us wondering..................
What did you make the tool out of? A real treat to look over your shoulder.
Steel
Thanks! Oil hardening drill rod.
Sir peter .. do you have any thoughts about titan gilroy having a brand new machines coming in to his company these past few weeks? His getting bigger and bigger with those beast
I just saw his video on receiving the new Puma mill turn. It looks like a nice machine.
I wish I knew what this part was for, has to be for NASA or some crazy fracing tool.
There is anal retentiveness and several leagues above them are Master Craftsmen. Thank you Peter.
nice tool man
Happy Sunday, Peter! What kind of collets are you running in your TM? ER20?
ER 16 (0-.375) and ER 32 (up to .780"). I have no ER 20 collets. Nothing against them I just don't have any.
@@EdgePrecision I see you use those Big Diashowa chucks at your work, are those types only necessary for higher rigidity and accuracy work?
@@capnthepeafarmer It's mostly the collets that cause insurances. Big Diashowa also makes precision ER collets. They are expensive but if your process needs it. The collet chucks I use at work are better but they are expensive. Just putting a better collet in anyone's collet chuck would be better. The thing also about better collet chucks is their nuts and if they have thrust bearings in them. This can prevent twisting the collet as you tighten it.
Edge Precision that makes total sense now, I could never figure out why my ER and SK collets would have so much run out. I would tighten them, put them in the spindle and measure the runout, if it was too high, back off then tighten again and the runout was better. I guess at a certain point the collet twists instead of compresses. Thanks again!
Just checking up on you again. Not trying to be a pain in the butt but I haven't heard from you in awhile hope everything's okay. Looking forward to your next video
Thanks Don. I have just been real busy (Thank God!). I have been working on the same parts that I have made many videos on. So I need something new. I do have things in the works so to speak. I have ordered a new plasma cutter and table to do somethings. I may make some videos on that. This C19 thing has me a little bummed out and the lies surrounding it are getting tiresome. Fortunately in Houston Texas things are not really locked down. We only have to wear masks in public. This in it self sort of restricts my activity. I just don't go do things because of it.
@@EdgePrecision thank you for responding Peter. The plasma cutter sounds interesting can't wait for them videos. I agree with the c-19 situation. I live about 4 miles outside of St Louis and all the reports are saying but the new cases are worse than they were in the beginning. I believe we're about to go back to full lock down again. Anyway thanks for responding and I really enjoy your videos.
For the love of God, I hope these polishing operations mean that you get to put that bizarre behind you.
Peter, I've got a question for you, suppose you've got a spherical cavity say 3/4" inner dia, how can one measure it accurately? It has an access of around 1/2" on two sides
I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying you have a spherical shape .750" in diameter with a .50" hole intersecting it? You want to measure this thru the .50" hole?
@@EdgePrecision yes! That is it.
Do you just need to check the major diameter or the actual spherical shape. The model Mitutoyo 209-352 internal dial caliper would reach thru the hole and be able to check the .750 Diameter.
@@EdgePrecision thanks much appreciated
Why does it need such a high grade finish? What does it do?
These holes have o-ring seals. They actually don't need this kind of finish to function. The customer will reject the part so it's necessary to keep the customer happy.
It's very difficult detail! If it's not a secret, wher people use it?
When you share & teach, you continue to grow!
Turn a piece of wood then compound?
To lap it would work also. But there is the issue of being that far into the bore. Because every time you want to check things it is necessary to thoroughly clean out the abrasive out of the hole. So I wanted to just use sand paper to reduce this cleaning issue.
Looks like a hone needle
can you call that a homemade hone?
It's not really a hone. It's more a polishing tool.
Is that level of finish absolutely necessary? If so I would like to know why?
When they're paying tens of thousands of dollars for that single part, they don't need a reason. LOL. All joking aside, I believe he said they receive another part that has orings. Not that that matters.
The finish is specified on the drawing. He said they inspect for finish and reject any parts that don't meet the finish called out. I'd guess from that the finish is required if he wants to be paid.
It's petrochem. what they want rarely ever makes sense, but they have the money to pay for it.
possibly some internal hydraulic or air valving. my guess is its doing something down a long hole. haha.
If the employer does not care about the cost, a good finish won't hurt in this application so "why not". Also the designed probably did not want to be the judge or have the expertize to call an appropriate finish anyway.
#Sunnen honing machine
what cnc machine is that?
The machines in my garage are a Haas TM-1 mill and a HaasTL-1 lathe.
What is the actual part for ?? cheers from OZ.
Its some kind of oilfield down hole instrument. There are many other parts that go to the whole assembly. This is just the body. I don't really know what it does.
@@EdgePrecision Dam, its such a complicated part I'm sure you where going to say The Space station cheers.
@@navaho5430 Inner Space!
could you have did that in the machine?
Maybe with some very specialized tooling that I don't have. A special burnishing tool might work. If I had ordered it 6 months ago I might have it now.
@@EdgePrecision I thought with the same way you are doing it now.. you mentioned about being able to hold it straight
I think the purpose and use of that part is less interesting than the part itself. Especially when it is fully assembled.
I cant imagine why these counterbores need so goo finish.
High Pressure Hydraulics?
Maybe instead of a guide for the drill, just mount up the tool in the CNC and just make a tool path?
That could be possible. But on my machine I cant do anything with the doors open. And this kind of thing would be difficult having to open and close the doors all the time. I think a custom burnishing tool could be a way. But I should have ordered it six months ago. I didn't so here I am.
@@EdgePrecision Have you tried a ball hone for similar applications? I have had good luck using them manually and it would be interesting to see how they work out w/ cnc
Too much fluff. All that lathe work only to grab it in a drill chuck, your in the money.
I wanted to have the option to hold the tool in a grinders collet chuck if necessary. Didn't even need the .250 shank for the 1/2" drills chuck. As it turned out it wasn't necessary.
was enjoying this vid .... just had the dreaded phone call from work! am being made redundant! what the fuck do i do now at 60 yrs old
Sorry to hear that!
Hiya
Those are some grade A holes!
Grade A bores!
;>}
Wow First (Had to leave that comment)
Nice