Carriers are Killing 4G & 3G Devices - Your 4G Phone May Soon Stop Working
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- čas přidán 24. 11. 2023
- A significant amount of 4G phones rely on 3G networks to make calls. The shutdown of 3G networks around the world is set to disconnect those with 4G devices.
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James' write up and guide for checking VoLTE compatibility: docs.google.com/document/d/1Q...
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James' full write up and guide for checking VoLTE compatibility: docs.google.com/document/d/1QaVDYnZCdI2jKk0-DEZmlKTP33rt1vARd5cKKDA1ObI/edit?usp=sharing
Hey Hugh, thanks for the fantastic breakdown and explanation. Could you possibly post to your followers a message to share this to as many people as possible, and to news outlets? I think unless this issue becomes known to the general public, no change will be made, and it is especially critical to act soon as some of the shutdowns are imminent. Thanks.
@@M4MK For the AU 3G Switch-off I have reached out to all the major media outlets and none of them have properly covered this story. I did have an hour long interview with one TV News Station in September and they had committed to running the story, but have now confirmed they won't be, no explanation given.
@@M4MK0:35 😊tunikmm/mm
You will eat ze bugz and like it.
While some older 4G phones use 3G channels for voice calls, virtually all newer phones in the US now support and are REQUIRED to have VoLTE capability. Otherwise calls will simply not go through, only data will work. 4G is not going away for a while, since it's used as a control channel for voice call setup even if handed off to 5G VoLTE. One change that's coming is moving from Not-Stand-Alone (NSA) to Stand Alone (SA) service where the 4G channel is no longer needed, but due to the weaker 5G coverage, 4G is here to stay for the foreseeable future.
3G is long gone in Germany, but there is no way to shut down 4g. 5g is spotty at best. I only have 5g nsa, so 4g is mandatory. Ironically, 2g can not be shut down, because that is the signal that emergency services and stuff like that uses here.
Rly? In Poland I think it still works
Yeah, we shut it off years ago.@@ptaku2007
Same in Czech Republic. 2G aka GSM is still very useful, yes and 4G is what ~96 % of the mobile traffic is driven through.
Can confirm. 2G exists, 3G is gone, 4G is most stable and 5G is still spotty, even in Berlin.
similar here, Czech Republic, 3G is being gone for about 2 years I think at this point.
When my local carrier phased out 3G the coverage near both my house and office got so atrocious I practically could not talk at all. They shrug me off saying "95% coverage means the country not neccessairly where _you_ want it, and also refused to break up the contract due to me not being able to use their services. Eventually I changed carriers after using 2 phones for some time till my contract run out. My current carrier only offers 5G as an upgrade, expensive plan, even if your device supports it. BTW this is no longer planned obsolescence, this is forced obsolescence.
Last comment is spot on.
Not too far off from just getting into your home and robbing your phone, with legal authorization even. Before anyone tries to defend, yes, forcefully disabling much of the device's functionality (heck, main one. Remember, PHONE) is not too different from having it taken away.
@zdanee, I ABSOLUTELY Agree that when they're shutting down 3G & 4G networks, it IS Forced obsolescence. It'll also make for more profits because some people that are still using 3G phones like me, and that VoLTE Plans are more expensive, They are going to get more money on those switching to VoLTE Plans if their Devices support it. I'm sure Hugh didn't explain that. OH! I also forgot that if people upgrade via a manufacturer such as Samsung, Apple, Google and so on, they will get the money from the boosted sales of people switching to VoLTE Devices. Ya get What i Mean?
Will my iphone xr still work for calling !!???
@@arnavarora4338 It appears so. Depends on where you live, of course.
I'm really, REALLY lamenting the 3G switch off. There's parts of Australia here that aren't even particularly rural, but 3G is the only signal that gets through. 4G is patchy at best. 5G is virtually non-existent. I don't know what planet the carriers are on.
Hugh is right on, the amount of e-waste would be phenomenal. So many people's livelihood depends on cheap, or hand me down phones. It's atrocious the number of used phones that are discarded because they are locked. Just amongst my close friends there are stacks of phones that could be repurposed.
So is upgrading
The Telstra 4G network was launched in 2011, with Telstra exclusively selling VoLTE handsets since 2019. However, the range of handsets which supports VoLTE reaches far further back than this, with the 2014 iPhone 6 being compatible with VoLTE.
It is unrealistic to expect the telcos to perpetually support obsolete network standards as this leads to network inefficiencies, which results with inferior network coverage and customer experience for the broader community. Hard decisions eventually have to be made for the good of the wider community.
Consumers have to realise and accept that their hardware will eventually become obsolete, which leads to their hardware becoming unusable. Accordingly, consumers have to make plans to replace their hardware as mobile network circumstances, or personal needs, dictate. As for consumers buying handsets overseas, these users have to accept the risk that their overseas purchases may not be fully compatible with Australian mobile networks.
I myself have 4 or 5. Same with my parents. I learned to not buy garbage low tier phones. Buy mid grade and it lasts 5 times longer
@@jacobsprojects2972 Only an out and out moron would still insist on using a 2013 iPhone 5S or older in 2024.
@@user-kc1tf7zm3b fellow Telstra user here, apparently their not turning of 4g VoLTE devices? Also my current s9 has VoLTE, which was released in 2018 I think?
I had no idea this was happening. My carrier (O2) in the UK claim to be shutting down the 3G network in 2025. My phone frequently drops to 3G in the rural area I live, as the 4G signal isn't strong enough.
It's a joke, really. They hadn't finished rolling out 3G to the country before 4G turned up, and the same has happened with 5G. What are these companies spending our money on? It sure as hell isn't the expansion of the networks' coverage.
4G is patchy even in my UK town, my phone always drops back to 3G even in places where I can sometimes get 4G. They are just going to make it worse.
At least you still get 2g for essential sms and phone calls
Glad 2G is here for emergency calls & messages
Ha, o2 are so bad that I frequently end up on 3G in the city centre of Bristol. If they turn it off, most of their users will be cut off!
"What are these companies spending our money on? " profit for the company?
This is going to be genuinely horrific.
In the UK 5g is basically non existent, so I hope that the UK doesn't choose to follow in the US's footsteps because I'd say a good 95% of the UK relies on 4g and 3g for everyday tasks, hell the phone I'm using right now does not support 5g.
Well that's not true, just because there isn't 5G where you are on your network doesn't mean "is basically non-existent".
This guy in the video is a classic CZcams clickbait cretin, 4G in the UK has another 10 years left at least.
I just turn off 5G on my phone as coverage is spotty and the phone consumes more battery constantly looking for it. 4G has good enough speeds for all my mobile computing needs.
We don't even have 5g here in the middle of the woods where I live in in scandinavia, only 4g and 4g+ which is more then fast enough for me, only cities and denser suburbs have it.
I'm in UK South Devon 5g is useless, don't own any 5g devices was never planning to buy them.
Never use a mobile phone for making calls, just texts and WiFi Internet.
Right now don't even have a working sim not bother since contract finished but still use WiFi Internet and texts.
The only people who use to call me were scammers 😂
Have a free landline telephone hardly use that either.
Another note is a lot of "4G" phones are not true 4G in the real sense. It's more like 3.5G. Which is why a lot of "4G" phones basically stopped functioning well or at all when the 3G network was shut down in the US.
Not true. 3.5g doesn't go up to 150 Mbps
my galaxy s7 still works in the us because it has volte! and its from 2016! n i believe my iphone se 2016 and my iphone 6s plus support it also!
Good example is the iPhone 4s
@@danteerskine7678 Thats the reason 3.5g can have capability of the 4g but produce crazy heat more than the real 4g.
@@danteerskine7678 While that's true, some US networks marketed 3.5G (HSPA) as 4G. It was dishonest of them but that's what they did for a while.
I was working for Telstra as a senior case manager in their complaints department when Telstra began shutting down the old 2G network 8 years ago. Even in 2016, shutting down the old 1990's-era 2G network caused absolute chaos for many people living outside of major metropolitan areas. Entire towns around Australia went to bed one night with four bars of reception and woke up the next morning with a circle with a strike through it as their reception icon on their phone screen, and they couldn't even make emergency calls, as those small rural towns had never been considered worthwhile even for a 3G connection, so many of the phones were only ever accessing the old 2G network from a tower many kilometres from the town... If Telstra thinks that switching off 3G won't surely be any worse than switching off 2G, then they have an absolute fucking nightmare situation coming their way... I mean, holy fuckamoly, I live in downtown Melbourne and I still find my phone having to step back to 3G quite often throughout the day when I'm not in line of sight of a 4G/LTE tower...
THIS. This sums up why Australia can't do that, unless they push something else out to provide an emergency network, or supply far more towers.
Im in rural Au and yep, looks like its about to happen again with 3G -.- no doubt my town will be victim. So much for supporting the farmers, eh?
Without 2G GSM (soon) and 3G HSPA service on T-Mobile US, I can no longer use my vintage phones and non-approved 4G LTE phones. So saddened this is happening.
Many international, imported smartphones which did not support voLTE on AT&T, T-Mobile, etc worked fine on their legacy networks. This is no longer possible and just shows how restrictive these carriers are.
Send em to me down to Mexico, they still work fine down here
I just returned to the US with a Realme 10 4g phone from the Philippines. It worked perfectly there on a local Smart SIM and a US T-Mobile SIM. When I came back, the signal strength on T-Mobile was very weak and the data speed was EDGE network slow. I popped the same SIM (which they are trying to kill off with eSIM) into my S22, it worked perfectly. I have older devices that are still good phones, this is nothing more than a wasteful money grab and we are the chickens being plucked again..
@@telcobilly I was forced to upgrade from an international unlocked Samsung Galaxy A3 in 2020 when TMO's 2G and 3G networks started to degrade. It really sucks.
Remember the US is a "free market" and you better not complain because "commies". And you need to accept all of the draconian and authoritarian abuses from the free market companies and do what you are told by them. After all, democracy and freedom are being threatened if you don't think as you are told to think.
Sometimes I wish I could teleport myself out of this shitshow and to a country that respects my rights as a human being. :-/
@@telcobillythe reason your Realme 10 didn't work well with T-Mobile is because of the differences between the bands used in the United States and other countries. North America is kind of an oddball in terms of the bands we use,so many imported phones either don't work well or don't work at all. Also, carriers here have gone all in on VoLTE, so, even if a phone supports the correct bands but doesn't have VoLTE, it won't work. The advantage for us is that, since VoLTE has been used here for so long, the 3G shutdown hasn't been much of an issue here.
That VoLTE being whitelist-only feature is worst part, it's like DRM for phone carriers.
I hope GSM makes a comeback. Mobile Internet only goes so far.
This isn't the case, at least when it comes to Telstra here in Australia. They don't block handsets from using VoLTE, rather the handset manufacturers haven't included the VoLTE configuration for Telstra/Optus/Vodafone in their handset firmware. If the phone is more than a few years old, there's basically zero chance that the manufacturer is going to provide a firmware update to include the correct settings for VoLTE.
@@Tasdevil123so, basically a whitelist.
Early phases it was whitelisted to newer phones but i dont think this is officially implemented and its up to the manufacturer to add the relevant IMS infomation to the device (which seems to be well adopted) Never had any issues with VOLTE while travelling
@@natzzzy9119 I think there is a difference between it being official or not. In the 3G days, things like skype were banned too.
This need to be shared, I hope Linus , Louis Rossman and others pick it up if people makes a fuss on twitter
Well on the recent WAN Show (27 Oct ~2hr 7mins & 2hr 47mins) when Linus was going to show switching to the LG Wing Dan had to explain that VoLTE wouldn't work because it was a US Carrier phone and that calls won't work properly if he doesn't have 3G Coverage. Linus tried calling Luke and it wouldn't work.
This time it's different though. Their rights to repair and ownership is about devices you own. This is about carrier infrastructure and network, none of which are owned by each individual who uses the phone.
Rob Braxham was not good enough I guess because he was talking about this years ago.
I wouldn't count on linus channel , the guy literally treat their viewers like someone is retard.
@@bltzcstrnx Well there's also the fact that as I understand it, 3G shutdown has been largely completed in the US for nearly a year. Also from what I understand 2G is nearly complete too with T-mobile still offering limited support for devices already on their network (with no new activations allowed).
So this is already something Rossman has fully experienced. I think it's much less of an issue in the US since parallel importing phones is a lot less common (especially since their networks have often been different from a lot of the rest of the world). And they're also fairly used to carriers telling you what phones you can use and limiting your devices, and I think don't switch between carriers while keeping their phones nearly as much.
Canada is different, they might switch off 3G even after Australia. So maybe Linus will be interested. Although realistically I'm fairly sure Linus visits the US (and other places) often enough to have already experienced this a fair amount. Although my impression is parallel importation from places from the US is also not very common, and there's also more acceptance of carrier locks etc.
First of all
When you make a phone call and your network drops to 3G, it doesn't essentially mean that your device doesn't support VoLTE. It could mean that VoLTE is not provisioned to your number. So it would be a good idea to simply call your carrier and ask if VoLTE is enabled and provisioned.
Second
In our country (and from what I can find online in other countries too) 2G is still used by emergency and government services, so my carrier simply routes all voice traffic for non VoLTE devices trough 2G and notifies the costumer that if he chooses to use his old device he/she may experience quality degradation in their service. Plus 2G coverage is far greater than 3G in our area so more rural areas still have access to voice.
I normally don’t comment, but I work retail for a cell company, and the amount of people that have completely lost coverage because of the 3G towers being disabled is really concerning. I’m in a rural area, and I’d say about 2 or 3 customer a day are leaving (over 2 months since the towers were turned off) and even through other providers they have no coverage anymore. I understand 4G and 5G are ‘faster’ but we really rely on the distance that 3G covers
There is no reason 4G or 5G on the same bands as 3G can't provide the same or better coverage. This looks more like a carrier problem than technical. Also, the 600 & 700 MHz bands, even lower frequency than what 3G uses, can cover even greater distances. Are those companies replacing 3G with 4G or 5G on higher bands than were used for 3G? That would certainly reduce coverage. I'm on Rogers, in Canada, and they have 4G on 700 MHz and 4G & 5G on 600. They've also dropped 3G on 1.9 GHz, but still have it on 850 MHz.
This will impact a lot of fire alarm systems. The one at my workplace had connection trouble last year when 3g was disabled by at&t and all the electricians were swamped with fire alarm support calls and work orders all at once. Most fire alarms are set to auto call via cell service to a firehouse in case of a fire.
4G and 4G+ are LTE and LTE+. Many carriers choose different logos to flash into firmware for these networking icons, but they all mean the same thing. In fact, flashing firmware can change the logo. Your phone almost certainly supports VoLTE. I have phones from 2015 that can use VoLTE. I have successfully made and received calls from a galaxy S7 in 2023 after the shutdown in the US.
That being said, i hate the shutdown. I'm in the US, and 2G/3G were shut down quite a while ago on most carriers, and it really sucks. I don't think 3G was ready to go. In rural areas, i get little to no service anymore. before 2020, my carrier still had 2G, and I had service in many rural areas (i travel). After they killed 2G, that service was considerably worse, but i still got service in many rural areas. In 2022, however, 3G was killed and i get little to no service in rural areas. Its quite sad that carriers are willing to kill off a network that people rely on for their daily lives. LTE just doesn't have the range or coverage to replace 2G/3G in rural areas.
i had s6 edge it supported volte
For example,AT&T’s 5Ge is upgraded LTE with 5G features.
That's more a carrier issue. They shouldn't be shutting down service, without something in place to replace it.
Actually, LTE800 is good and work fine in rural areas.
@@vadnegru Some carriers are going as low as 600 MHz. Mine has 5G on 600 MHz and 4G on 700.
3G shutdown has been awful in the US. I have heard some carriers was sending out free devices that worked on LTE. Still it’s BS that people have to make this change. I can take you to plenty of places around me that had coverage when 3G was available and now has SOS only in those areas or even no service! I wouldn’t have shut it down to at least 2027 when LTE would blanket areas so no one was left in the dark.
Here in Brazil 🇧🇷 we still have 2G and 3G, because in a country the size of a continent, in remote locations it is easy to deal with these old technologies. And in cities, 2G is used in energy meters, utility water meters, and 3G is used in ALL payment stations and payment machines. It is also used for tracking the location of public transport, such as buses. This allows for an uncongested 4G/5G network and also provides access to 2G and 3G for people who have older devices.
In most EU countries we also have 2G EDGE (but 3G was shut down). It is due to old critical infrastructure and devices relying on it to make calls. At my log cabin in a very remote location I could only pick up a 2G EDGE signal. (This year they will be covering it with 4G) Was weird, could barely watch 240p videos there.
Same in Serbia.
The Brazilian position and experience is just not practicable in Australia. Nearly all Australians want fast, stable and reliable mobile Internet access. As a consequence, the 2G and 3G networks have to be decommissioned in order to free up the extremely valuable radio spectrum so that the 5G network can achieve the intended mobile internet capability strategies.
Up until recently, Australia was more economically prosperous than the entire continent of South America. Australians are more ambitious and exacting than Brazilians or Argentinians. As a consequence, the Australian mobile networks reflects these economic and societal realities.
This explains why Australia, even with a modest population of only 25 million, has won a staggering 170 Olympic gold medals. Brazil has won 37 gold, yet has a population of 203 million. Argentina has only mustered 21 gold medals.
🦘🇦🇺🥇
@@user-kc1tf7zm3bblud can't be happy living in his stone jungle so he needs to state publicly his boring country is better.
@@user-kc1tf7zm3band more ambitous is your tongue, your country is just priviliged by the terrible forces who rule the world. Every single one of the statists who tried to develop national industries just got unable to govern, some lost their roles and even more just couldn't compete in their dirty ellectoral sistems. Why? Because for the powerful ones, it is not only that it is uninteresting for South America to develop, they are actively interested in maintaining the subdeveloped countries the way they are. To the global elites, the only thing Brasil and the others should be good is to hand over natural resources to countries like yours without complaining
I figured this was just a US thing (because of course) but I never realized this was happening worldwide. I hate how corporations can just do this without any consequences
Lol LMFAO, the US is the one country handling this properly. VoLTE is a standard here so if your phone has it it just works regardless of carrier, and carriers have been offering free phones to affected customers. Not just bottom of the barrel $100 budget phones either T-Mobile has been offering a few respectable midrange options.
Also, it's important to remember that it's governments that own the spectrum and carriers simply have a license to use it. It's very likely the government pushing for the change hence the complete apathy that the guy got in his response from the Australian government.
@@antikommunistischaktion I have multiple VOLTE capable phones, and a lot of them either don't work with any carrier, or work with only T-Mobile. There is no standard. VOLTE was a mistake. Why did they have to make this pile of garbage instead of reusing the old voice technology that worked fine for 3G?
Also AT&T can just dump old phones, even VOLTE capable ones and force you to upgrade.
@@antikommunistischaktionLol no. I have 5 phones (two Samsung, a Nokia, and a two old Google Nexus phones) sitting in a drawer that support VoLTE and have firmware recent enough to have the necessary settings to work with at&t that at&t not only won't provision but will suspend my line if I have the temerity to put a SIM card with the VoLTE provisioned flag set in one of those phones.
Never mind that they work just fine when the line has the VoLTE feature code on it and the SIM tells the phone it's OK to try to use VoLTE.
@@bloodydamnhell Lol sorry, but no to your no. I have 15 phones including Nexus/Pixel, Moto, and Samsung (carrier unlocked) and all of them work over VoLTE with both my T-Mobile and AT&T sim.
@@antikommunistischaktionsorry dude, you are delusional. The US is literally the worst country in this aspect and is infamous for 1. Not letting you use functions like VoLTE on imported Android phones (even if the model should be supported -- case in point, an LG V20 global version wouldn't get VoLTE but the carrier's own AT&T variant would) to upsell their own carrier locked variant and 2. Killing support for older phones off a few years after the contracts on the phone model end, even if the phones are fully functional. Thank god we don't have this carrier locked BS and planned obsolescence in the EU anymore.
Also you're 100% wrong when it comes to the government "owning the spectrum". The mast companies that sell the equipment/network towers (like Huawei) provide their own licenses to use said spectrums with their equipment and are the ones who "own the spectrum". The FCC only approves or denies their use and mandate where they can operate.
What's more dumb is I swear some of these new 4G phones around 2013 had VoLTE but somehow there's nothing about it now 10 years later. Cricket in the US was doing something similar at the start of 2022 and it was VERY dumb. They were artificially blocking phone models from other countries that still had all the same bands required to work on the carrier. AT&T was fine but suddenly on Cricket the list became VERY limited. Some phones will outright be denied if they aren't on the list but have the modern tech to support LTE and 5G.
That's due to AT&T requiring all of their subcontracted providers such as Cricket to follow their allowed list of 4G VoLTE phones. I had a Asus Zenfone 6 and even though it was the US version, they wouldn't give ASUS VoLTE access for this model despite the fact the ASUS gaming phone at the time had access. It's a lot of greed involved. I had to deal with my slow and annoying Galaxy S7 Active while I was researching phones with avoiding buying directly from AT&T. I bought my OnePlus 11 from Amazon during the preorder time. I wasn't going to allow myself to fall under any sort of contract as they hardly ever end up saving you money at the end.
@@MrMega200 See the fucked up part was lots of the phones LISTED on AT&T’s thing were straight up being denied by Cricket. That’s why it was really stupid. Going against the parent company on devices allowed.
What really sucks is if you drop out of 4G range, you drop calls. I still have signal, just can’t make a call or text. What if you’re lost?
You are correct, my 2013 bought (unbranded) Samsung Galaxy S4 has no problems with VoLTE on Vodafone or Telefonica (O2).
Is it common to be using 10 year old phones overseas?
What sucks is when your phone works on VoLTE, but they carrier doesn't add it to their whitelist, so you have to get a new phone. Then when you've disposed of the old phone, they decide to add it to the list, proving it was always possible and they're artificially limiting the devices on their network, so BYOD is no longer possible (again). Here in the USA, carriers publish (sadly very short) lists of phones which will be compatible.
Blame Planned obsolescence and corporate greed
The US citizens get their trousers yanked down so much. You'd think there would be more pushback but there never seems to be. Whether it's phone carriers customising the crap out of phones to add apps and adverts or artificially limiting cross-network compatibility. It's mind blowing to me as a European that they are ok to get away with this, but then things like egregious tipping cultures, the healthcare system and even the way banks have held back the growth of contactless payment systems over there, and left you years behind other countries. Makes you wonder how it gets the title of 'Greatest Country in the World'
The whitelist thing for volte is actually ridicolous . Why is that a thing
You'd be astonished how many hardware like elevators or escalators have 2G modules to raise alarm when the passenger presses the emergency button.
That's the reason in the US there's still 2G as ultimate fallback.
In Switzerland they shut down 2G and it didn't take long for people to have been trapped in an elevator and couldn't call for help via the emergency button.
I checked with T-Mobile, which is my carrier in here the US. Info they provided is that they shut down the older 2G and 3G networks last year, but will continue to fully support 4G devices into the 2030's. Cutting off 2G and 3G services has not effected data and voice services on our iPhone 11.
Good news
Sure, but what about all those less recent devices or international models?
@@mobilephonesandtech My daughter is using an iPhone Xs which is five generations old. It displays LTE (4G) when connected to T-mobile. It still works fine for voice and data.
@@mobilephonesandtech I can understand why carriers are ceasing support for the older technology. The older infrastructure becomes unsustainable because of increasing components failures due to age and the lack of parts to maintain it.
Wish they could repurpose tech like this for something
I am equally upset by calls to phase out AM band radio or analogue radio/tv. These venerable technologies still serve a useful purpose, especially for rural residents, and the push to digitize everything at high frequency bands seems to be an urbanist obsession to save a few pennies. Manufacturers also support the idea because it means more consumption (and more waste). Zygmunt Bauman was right.
AM radio tends to cater to more conservatively leaning audiences...go figure
@@ozzie_goat In the US perhaps. In Canada it mostly carries the publicly-owned national broadcaster, especially in the north.
My new car doesn't have AM, meaning I can't tune in to traffic warning channels, amazing.
@@joebot86 Then trade it in and get an older one.
@@salpaca53 no, lol. I said annoying, not deal breaking.
Thank you Hugh for making this video, as someone who has struggled through this confusion in the US through the past few years, I'm really glad someone is calling attention to it. I have no clue why this isn't being talked about more!
@@phillipbanes5484 That may be the case if you have a newer phone or use a recognizable phone brand. Using more niche or overseas phones has become a nightmare of compatibility issues and "approved phones lists" for carriers like AT&T.
3G was shut down for Verizon in the US at the end of 2022. It was bad, as a lot of phones in rural areas had much worse service, and anything older than an iPhone 6s stopped working.
I live in Rural NSW so the internet is spotty and there’s completely dead spot with no internet 3G is a necessary out her let alone 4G This is gonna suck. I’m so sick of these mega companies doing this sort of stuff because it slightly cuts into there profits which are already in the billions.
The Australian Telstra 4G network was launched in 2011, with Telstra exclusively selling VoLTE handsets since 2019. However, the range of handsets which supports VoLTE reaches far further back than this, with the 2014 iPhone 6 being compatible with VoLTE.
It is unrealistic to expect the telcos to perpetually support obsolete network standards as this leads to network inefficiencies, which results with inferior network coverage and customer experience for the broader community. Hard decisions eventually have to be made for the good of the wider community. Simply put, it is absurd for a consumer to think they have a legal right to be able to use their old and obsolete hardware forever with a mobile network. This is just not realistic.
Consumers have to realise and accept that their hardware will eventually become obsolete, which leads to their hardware becoming unusable. Accordingly, consumers have to make plans to replace their hardware as mobile network circumstances, or personal needs, dictate. As for consumers buying handsets overseas, these users have to accept the risk that their overseas purchases may not be fully compatible with Australian mobile networks.
Disgusting. Governments don't bother to monitor and regulate corporations any more. What even is the point of government if they refuse to govern in the best interests of the populace. It's an essential part of their job.
Politicians mostly govern in the interests of their own pocket and what they can get from corporate lobbyists.
I have a refurbished AT&T Verizon Galaxy S9 which comes up with the VoLTE symbol at the top. Even so, the idea that a huge swathe of critical infrastructure for the elderly and disabled, etc, is about to be turned off without so much as an "is this OK?" is extremely disturbing.
Hi Hugh, am from Singapore, a country that is also shutting down 3g at the same time as Australia (July 31st 2024 to be exact). Same issue of a lack of awareness of what it entails here too 😅
This video about the future #VolteApocalypse is exactly what I was looking for. I want to make three additional points as well:
1. The volte problem will also affect foreigners entering into Australia/ any other country without 2g/3g , which are likely to be carrying phones not officially supported in AU (OnePlus, Xiaomi and Sony come into mind). Imagine if a tourist or student cannot make proper phone calls... Even roaming from home countries does not make a difference.
2. Many regions, such as Malaysia, Indonesia, and most of Europe are doing the smarter thing by phasing out 3g and leaving 2g on for maximum range and compatibility, especially in the rural areas. (I simply have no idea why this wasn't implemented in Australia to begin with 😒). This also means more time for the GSMA to get their act together and roll out a universally-compatible volte standard as well.
3. If a telco wants to shut down both 2g and 3g, it should give sufficient buffer time (3 years or more) . NTT Docomo of Japan announced that it would shut down its 3G service in 2026... In 2019. That gives users (especially enterprise ones who are much slower in upgrading devices) SEVEN years to transition, troubleshoot and upgrade.
P.S. As Optus is owned by the Singaporean telco Singtel, let me offer you Aussies our sincere apologies... Now I understand why Australian engineers look down on their Singaporean counterparts. 😔
The lack of VoLTE support on the devices used by tourist, international students and other visitors will be a big issue in AU. Based on my testing it seems that both Optus and Vodafone support the Generic/Global GSMA VoLTE IR92 Specification however Telstra doesn't support this standard, for Devices to connect to Telstra VoLTE it needs to have Telstra Specific Modem Firmware to operate.
@@JamesDwho Now I know why Sony Xperia phones imported overseas only seem to support volte on Vodafone and Optus!
There is a reason why
For Singapore airwave are limited as we are also sharing airwaves with Malaysia and Indonesia in border areas and the widespread adoption of 5G especially at the this rate of user upgrading their mobile phones
VoLTE roaming is gaining ground too. I had VoLTE roaming while traveling in Malaysia.
Shutting down 3G free up scarce airwaves so it can be reused for 4G and 5G networks
Australia is doing the same thing to free up scarce airwaves to be reused for 4G and 5G networks as the rate of 5G adoption is getting higher and the bandwidth is getting limited.
The carrier need to be able to optimize the airwave usage to provide better experience for the users on 4G and 5G network.
It is time to move on from 3G era and to the 4G and beyond.
@@AGNDoesTech The Australian Telstra 4G network was launched in 2011, with Telstra exclusively selling VoLTE handsets since 2019. However, the range of handsets which supports VoLTE reaches far further back than this, with the 2014 iPhone 6 being compatible with VoLTE.
It is unrealistic to expect the telcos to perpetually support obsolete network standards as this leads to network inefficiencies, which results with inferior network coverage and customer experience for the broader community. Hard decisions eventually have to be made for the good of the wider community. Simply put, it is absurd for a consumer to think they have a legal right to be able to use their old and obsolete hardware forever with a mobile network. This is just not realistic.
Consumers have to realise and accept that their hardware will eventually become obsolete, which leads to their hardware becoming unusable. Accordingly, consumers have to make plans to replace their hardware as mobile network circumstances, or personal needs, dictate. As for consumers buying handsets overseas, these users have to accept the risk that their overseas purchases may not be fully compatible with Australian mobile networks.
A Philippine telco, Globe Telecom is also owned in part by SingTel.
After watching this, it seems as though this is more of an issue in Australia than it is elsewhere.
In other countries that are switching off 3G, 2G networks still exist, and whilst these are really slow for data, and low quality for calls, they still work (just about).
Australia, having switched off 2G already, is in a similar position to the USA - your phone must support 4G Calling (VoLTE).
For Apple phones, this is simple enough, but as you state, Android devices are more fragmented, with some having to be purchased from carriers themselves.
I once flashed carrier specific firmware onto my S7 Edge, and once complete, I got VoLTE.
The Samsung Galaxy S9+ that I have supports it straight out of the box.
So you really do need to check to make sure that your device supports VoLTE - though at least you can sell all of your non-VoLTE devices to countries that still have a 3G or 2G based fallback in place.
Bruh the 2G is honestly very useful for some situations such as emergency, because it covers very large areas (up to 150 km radius from the transmitter tower without obstacles) and much more weather-proof than recent 4G/5G signals
@@sihamhamda47 Yeah, because the frequency is much much lower than 5g. The lower the frequency, the less susceptible the signal (waveform) is to noise(such as weather), can penetrate obstacles and can be transmitted over longer distances because it uses more power. There should totally be different kinds of networks for different situations.
I have a S10 4G smartphone which I love because it does everything I need. If they stop supporting 4G ill just get a cheap 5G keyboard phone and still use my S10 as my main one...
Pretty much all of the Europe uses 2G while they turned off all of 3G and they are keeping 2G for all new sites that are being built.
The Telstra 4G network was launched in 2011, with Telstra exclusively selling VoLTE handsets since 2019. However, the range of handsets which supports VoLTE reaches far further back than this, with the 2014 iPhone 6 being compatible with VoLTE.
It is unrealistic to expect the telcos to perpetually support obsolete network standards as this leads to network inefficiencies, which results with inferior network coverage and customer experience for the broader community. Hard decisions eventually have to be made for the good of the wider community.
Consumers have to realise and accept that their hardware will eventually become obsolete, which leads to their hardware becoming unusable. Accordingly, consumers have to make plans to replace their hardware as mobile network circumstances, or personal needs, dictate. As for consumers buying handsets overseas, these users have to accept the risk that their overseas purchases may not be fully compatible with Australian mobile networks.
I'm Australian and no when 2g was switched off (besides reserved frequencies) it's didn't affect many people really.. some rural areas was affected for a short time while rollout was being completed.. same will be similar for 3g but likely not affect anyone as all Telstra prepaid 4g and 4gx phones are voLTE and voWIFI.. even $60 cheap crap phones support voLTE the last few years this has been true (idk about Optus and Vodafone phones though) so it won't affect many people much.. and parts of the frequency spectrum of 3g will be reserved for government use mostly military redundancy just like 2g was.. so 2g and 3g and 4g and long wave 5g all have reserved frequencies illegal for any company to use because it's reserved for military and other government agencies like ambulance service police and fire departments so they have several means of redundant coms incase it's ever needed..
AM radio is starting to go from cars now.
Electric cars motors cause interference (like Melbourne Trams) so EVs come with FM and DAB instead.
There's too much interference for AM to function anymore. I tried AM for sh*ts and giggles in my gas car once and I picked up one station, and only barely.
I very much appreciate you making a video on this topic. I've been really concerned about the effects of the 3G shutdown would be but didn't know how to put words to it and you have synthesized the general idea very well. Been subscribed since you've had like 30k. Definitely gonna stick around.
FUN Fact: In india , operators like Airtel,BSNL,ViIndia are still running with 2G networks . Even though they rollout with 5G (I mean we can still make calls with the 3/4/5G simcards when inserting on a 2G devices )
3g is still alive in Latvia and probably will stay alive for a long time. Since most of us are broke as shit - there is a demand for older connection standarts.
It should be an emergency fallback. Like GSM was for a long time.
My Mom had to lose her 4G LTE phone when her carrier shut down their 3G network. In the US there's a loophole in the laws which allows carriers to ban any device from VoLTE if it's not 'certified' by the manufacturer for that carrier's VoLTE system. They make this prohibitively expensive for manufacturers to do for phones not branded for that carrier, so none of them do it. There is 0 reason that these phones will not work with VoLTE aside from the carrier actively blocking them. In the US the carriers are required to allow unbranded phones on their network, but they're able to use the VoLTE certification loophole now to effectively block all of them!
In March of 2018 my mom bought the Motorola Moto G5 Plus for AT&T in the US. It used 3G only for calls as Hugh mentioned. I think it was February of 2021 when AT&T started murdering their 3G network. We were staying at her parents house while she had in another a distance 40 minutes away town doing different things. She never called at any point but I could track her phone with a third party app.
When she returned she said she wasn’t able to make or receive calls. On our 1.5 hour long drive back home I tried to make calls from her phone and failed. Later that night is when I remembered her phone used 3G to make and receive calls. When I told her she would have to get a different phone, she almost burst into flames from anger. That’s a summary the best I can remember it.
A warning 3 months in advance would have been very nice of AT&T.
Thankyou for the video Hugh, hopefully you bringing awareness will help change things. Let us know if there is anything we can do to help.
3:30 to understand why we shutdown old network, understand that there’s only so much addressable frequencies. I assume like the US, AU will be using these old 800/900mhz frequencies for emergency services radios.
Network(s)* so many frequencies* and one last thought, old connected cars also impacted. I know in the US, GM cars with OnStar 3G no longer have any sort of crash reporting or SOS. I have to assume the same for Benz SOS and other related systems
4:00 because that spectrum is functionally useless except for barest essence of broadcast. There’s not much you can do with the old amplitude stuff beyond actual audio. They’re repurposing the 600-900mhz spectrum primarily (in the us anyways) so police and fire can have digital encryption radios
I saw our 5G to be as low as 700MHz
@@Pressbutanyep my lexus RX-350 from 2017 has lost it's connective services and crash alerts even my dad's 2019 4Runner was affected by the same 3G shutdown with no way to rectify it.
My carrier uses the 2G & 3G bands for 4G. I suppose they'll eventually have 5G on them.
It was chaotic back when 'Jio' current biggest network operator in India released 4G but it needed phones to support volte to make calls, however people made the switch because they got plans basically for free the first year.
Would be interesting to see how it plays out in the US, what Jio did was give an option to call from their app, for phones that didn't support Volte not the best solution though.
Telcos pretty much just told you that you'd have to buy a new phone. If you didn't, they'd just dropship you some crappy flip phone that probably could have come from Aliexpress. On 4G phones, at least anecdotally, the reception seems to have gone way downhill in less-urban areas.
In the UK, we currently have 2G and 3G on O2 and EE.
Vodafone is currently shutting off its 3G network, and we've already seen that there's a lot of 2G only coverage now
Well we still have 2G&3G from Airtel and Vodafone(Vi) idk for how long
I wish airtel still had 3g so I could use that when I head to India instead of trying BSNL so I could use my 4s. :( rip legacy devices
Airtel still has 2g
Very important video, thank you, Hugh!
They cancelled my original cell service from 1989, then cancelled the 3g in my car, great, now this…
Hugh, despite the letter sent to your friend from the government, I haven't been contacted by Vodafone to tell me about the December 15 cutoff. This is very disappointing. Whilst I have recently got a new phone so am not directly affected, I know at least 5 people who will be affected and will have to purchase new phones and other devices. If I hadn't seen this video today, I wouldn't even know to warn them. Disgraceful.
i love your work with reviewing tech and teardowns ect. 100% agree with you about people not being able to check their phone to see if it is 4G compatible but in your case you are more tech savvy than most and im pretty sure you can find the specs of your phone online.
That was 2G
Thank you Hugh for raising awareness about this problem! Here in Cyprus, my mobile carrier seems to still support 2G, which I have verified by forcing my phone to connect to 2G with some settings, and I could still connect to the internet (albeit VERY slowly). My phone supports 5G and VoLTE, so this wouldn't be a problem for me, but I'm still glad that my carrier keeps supporting the old tech, while also getting the new tech (5G) as well and having very good 5G speeds.
It's worth mentioning that even on modern devices, 3G and 2G are still useful as fallbacks when you're in a very remote area which barely gets any signal, since 2G and 3G use lower frequencies that can reach longer distances, and could potentially allow you to make a basic phone call or access some info on the internet that could save your life.
3G is pretty much useless for data these days, and I've no idea why. I feel like the networks have been hobbling those masts to prove a point for years. Wherever I am, if my phone drops to 3G I basically can't do anything at all.
Actually, 5G can be on the same bands as previously used for 2G & 3G. In fact, my carrier has frequencies as low as 600 MHz, which is below anything that was used here for 2G or 3G. They also have 3.5 GHz which, again, was never used for 2G or 3G.
just read about bands, and you'll see that 4G bands like b3 or b8 are using same frequencies as were used for GSM - 1800 and 900 mHz, so there's no problem using lower freqs for 4G and having wide coverage area. b20 use even lower 800 mHz and 4G coverage area gets even wider, though throughput is not that great at these freqs.
@@Auberge79 Even 600 MHz is used for 4G & 5G, as my carrier does. Any band a carrier has can be used by 4G or 5G, though I don't know if there are any 4G phones that can do 3.5 GHz C band. Same with mmWave.
This is absolutely terrible. 5G in the US is STILL spotty at best and as slow as LTE, and 5G towers are still very dangerous and radioactive. And worst of all, there will be even more manufactured e-waste that could be solved by making the right choice and keeping 4G/3G around...
Discontinuing 3G is not an issue provided they preserve 2g networks, as was done here in India. So all old phones are able to switch to 2G for voice calling. Basically not all phones support VoLTE,in which case it will fallback to 3g or 2g for calls.
I agree, 2G networks is a backbone, many in my country rural area only got 2G coverage, I've got relative just in such rural area but still able to contact them using any cellphone, many western country switching off 2G in hope 4G will take over, but nope, it's VoLTE debacle is literally why they now facing this issue.
@@Setupthemabomb Correct…Even today, 2G is more or less irreplaceable, esp in far flung areas, as well as given the prevalence of older devices, some of which are not necessarily phones, but rather GSM enabled devices.
@@srideepprasad Well, it was replaced in the US. It all seems fine until you go to literally any rural area. I hate carriers.
@@srideepprasad 2G got phased out years ago in Australia, I live in an area right now with only 3g reception so hopefully they upgrade it to 4g, otherwise i'm not going to have any reception anymore which is pretty much essential now days haha
@@altgm11 Agree.. But it must be balanced against the cost of forced upgrades. Eventually they must go, but the timing is crucial
This problem exists because Australia's carriers were too lazy to switch to 4G network. Here in India, when 4G standard came, a new carrier came up with plan where they offered free calls, texts and unlimited data initially as they tested and rolled out their network. They only offered 4G and calls were only supported through VoLTE.
People went frenzy, they bought new phones with 4G and VoLTE and within about an year every smartphone became 4G and VoLTE. Those who had old 4G phones, they were either updated by manufacturers to implement VoLTE or they had to use a VOIP app by the carrier to do voice calls on non-VoLTE phones.
Soon all legacy carries were forced to switch to VoLTE as customers were experiencing better call quality and faster calls on VoLTE compared to their solutions of using old 2G and 3G standards for calls while data on 4G.
and now jio is doing it for 5g as well!
Adding more to the comment: only one operator (BSNL) provides 3G network, rest of the operators stopped theirs almost a year ago, to only serve 4G & 2G.
@@johanjoe3012 Yup both Jio & Airtel two major carriers are now offering unlimited 5G at no extra cost to everyone with a 5G phone.
@@nayaktuhin Yes, BSNL being a lazy Govt. funded PSU full of corruption and sheer incompetence is the only carrier to still offer 3G, infact they are still in process of procuring equipment for 4G deployment. Maybe they'll offer 4G by the time other carriers start moving to 6G.
I originally thought that the 3G shutdown only affected old phones like Palm Treos and RAZR V3s, but I didn't know 4G relied on it so much...
4G without VoLTE relied on 3G for voice calls. 4G with VoLTE does not need 3G. A similar situation is happening with 5G. Initially, it was just 5G radios connected to a 4G network. This is called non stand alone (NSA). Full 5G, called stand alone (SA) does not need 4G and also provides the full benefit of 5G that the 4G network couldn't.
I live in the Netherlands. 3g had been disabled, but 2g still exists as a backup for old phones.
I work for a telecom here in the USA. I think the point you’re missing is once your doing volte calls, those are calls over a “data network”, like a voip call. This means the carriers only have to transmit a data channel, in reality, it’s several different data channels, but at the end of the day it’s all just data and not the traditional voice transmission on 3G. Now they can do away with that older tech and the older equipment needed for that voice on 3g.
As we go forward in generations, 5G to 6G and so on voice will transmit over those on a data channel as well.
And..
How reliable will that be ?
And how many 5g ready devices are there already??
It’s a concerning topic, because the 3G and 4G (before VoLTE) is the base of newer networks and many other services around the world like emergency calls. In Mexico we barely talk about the shutdown of 2G and 3G. These networks will be discontinued in 2027 but in the Mexican market you can find a basic cellular with only 2G. It’s a shame because the shutdown affect many people who can’t replace their phone so easily. It’s almost like the cell phone that you buy right now has an expire date.
Unfortunately, the cellular carriers doesn’t seem to care the inconveniences of the shutdown for the end user and the real damage of the environment with e waste produced by the disability of these networks in the near future.
Interesting this popped up in my feed now - my telco closed 3G service for my area *today* and I thought it might have simply been an outage. Thank you for the detailed explanation :)
I dont understand why we cannot use our old phones if they are in good shape they are a bunch of crooks, always making us consume and purchase new garbage phones.
3G is pretty much dead in my country, leaving only 2G, LTE, and 5G. Problem with VoLTE is that its not enabled by default. You need to ask your carrier to activate it for you.
I'm on Rogers, in Canada, and they're upgrading all 4G users to 5G. So, if a customerer's phone supports it, they'll have 5G. Otherwise, they still have 4G.
4G LTE isn't going to be shut down in America anytime soon, at least not in the next 5-10 years. VOLTE has meant that 3G is pretty much dead here in the USA, while it still works, it's extremely rare for your device to move from LTE to HSPA/UMTS and it doesn't do it for phone calls unless roaming or internationally roaming, both of which can be fixed easily by the carrier and their roaming partners via software updates in the network. Roaming agreements aren't solid concrete, they can change dynamically and on demand if the partner networks agree to it. Sounds like Australia has a spectrum limitation crunch and will have to refarm LTE spectrum. Something we figured out years ago.
5 years ain't that far from now.
Keep in mind that there are industrial machines costing millions of dollars that are still in daily operation today that must run an ancient OS like Windows 2000 because the control software absolutely won't run on anything newer,and there are no upgrades for it. And it's not so simple to rip out and replace something costing as much as a big mansion, (nevermind the whole planning and logistics issue) just to run the latest OS. And finding computer parts that Windows 2000 supports is getting harder and harder as time goes on. The machines work perfectly fine, does exactly what the factories needs them to do, they simply got left behind on the fast moving never ending computer industry's upgrade treadmill.
And when you are dealing with embedded devices by the millions that only operate on a 4G network, 5 years is an incredibly short time.
I live in the uk and have a 17 mile commute each way to work and back, a couple of times a week I talk to a friend on my way home, I used to be on Three (now moved to Smarty - same network but cheaper) and with my old iPhone 8 I could set it to only make calls via 3G, it was great, my call never dropped ever, then I moved to a iPhone 13 Pro, no more setting for calls only on 3G, call quality is now quite poor, after a mile or so into my journey we have massive gaps of no audio or one way only, it will do its best to hold onto 4g but then either finally give up and cut me off or drop to 3G and then all is good, strange though that once on 3G it will not go back to 4g even if the signal is available. If they shut down 3G here in the uk I may as well give up, I’m only going from Tamworth to Coventry, not exactly the middle of nowhere!
Hugh, there's a few other things worth noting.
- Vodafone will actually lose access to their 900 Mhz band license in 2024. This will mean they have no licensed low-band spectrum to run a 3G network on.
- Optus will still have a license to use 900 Mhz and Telstra will still have the 850 Mhz band. They could still use those bands for 3G. However, they plan to refarm those bands to provide low-band/longer range 5G coverage, similar to what the 700 Mhz band does for 4G networks here in Australia today.
- Telstra (not sure about Optus/Voda) does not block handsets from using VoLTE. Rather, it is the handset manufacturers that are not including configs/settings for utilising VoLTE on Telstra/Optus/Vodafone. If the handset is more than a few years old, there's basically zero chance the manufacturer is going to provide a firmware update to include the correct settings for VoLTE.
While my phone (from 2020) does support VoLTE, it is flaky at best, and my phone often still uses 3G or H for calls. By the end of next year (when my carrier will shut off 3G entirely) my phone will be rendered a paperweight. They're still supposedly keeping 2G around, but in areas that I've visited that used to use 2G, now have no service at all, so that is doubtful.
Basically I will be forced to upgrade my phone early because of this (or downgrade back to my old phone, an iPhone 7 Plus, that does support VoLTE), I really don't like the sound of that future, but the government isn't going to step in (at least in the UK), in fact they're supporting shutting off the 3G network entirely.
Can't you change the android configuration?
Here in the U.S. basically, all cellphones made from 2015 onwards had full implementation of LTE.
So 99% we're never affected. However, some older cars were due to their infotainment systems not supporting LTE.
All 4G in the U.S. today is LTE. This isn't being discontinued. Just 3G was and older non LTE 4G was discontinued.
I'd say more 2012-2013. It's honestly a nothingburger of an issue because if worst comes to worst, you can basically build your own 2G Network and use an older phone. People act like this is a big issue when in my opinion, we should be fighting for things like owning our own software, movies, video games, and music, or fighting to ensure things like physical media aren't being forcibly made obsolete.
@destructionfun2 I agree. Also, no one in the U.S. even noticed the change since phones were already 4G LTE years ago before the decommissioning of 3G and 4G.
I'm surprised how far behind Australia is, actually.
Tesla was one early cars only had 3g but i think they offered an upgrade package to 4g
Unless 5G becomes more efficient I'm glad LTE is here to stay. Good enough performance and way better battery life.
Ok so you think everyone has a phone that’s less then 7 years old? Maybe it’s just me but not supporting a product for at least 50 years is insane. Imagine if you couldn’t get parts for your car just because it’s 30 years old?
In Norway 3G was shut down in 2021, while 2G is planned to be shut down in 2025. I hope it still stays some more years, since a lot of technology still supports and uses 2G.
I have a device from 2013 which doesn't support 4G. The 3G network was shut down here, but I still can use that phone for communication, because it falls back to 2G. I can send SMS, MMS, can make phone calls and I can send text Whatsapp messages.
I can't believe, that some phones produced in 2020 don't support VoLTE, because even my iPhone 7 (which came out in 2016) supports VoLTE.
You hit the nail on the head with the AM radio example. Why would we have to suddenly turn all the phones made before 2015 into paperweights
Because money ofcourse. If it were on the telcos it would be mandatory for you to buy a $1000 device every year. Just wait and see how fast 6G will become a standard and adopted, then 7G, 8G...
because it's a terrible comparison - AM/FM use completely different frequency bands - whereas most mobile networks use between 700-3600MHz (and the really good stuff typically is 900-2100 for good coverage / material penetration as well as throughput sweetspot) - AM radio bands aren't that useful for other things so, there's not much different. but a 20Mhz chunk in the 2100Mhz range can be used much more efficiently and give faster speeds and better coverage to customers
Because keeping those older standards alive means that these frequency bands cannot be allocated to 4G and 5G networks. When people complain that they don't have 4G signal in their basement for example but they have 2G pretty much everywhere, it is because 2G is operated on low frequency bands. These are the frequencies that penetrate through walls the best and they are planned to be repurposed for 4G and 5G once the older standards are phased out. All of the complaints that people make about 4G and 5G being spotty are because 2G and 3G are still alive, so once they're gone it will no longer be true.
Not only that but 3G and especially 2G are incredibly less energy-efficient than the newer standards (we're talking multiple orders of magnitude here). This is electricity that is being wasted on keeping those older standards alive, so the environmental argument is not as black-and-white as Hugh makes it out to be. In fact there is research being done at the moment that suggests that shutting those older networks down will be a net positive CO2-emissions wise compared to keeping them alive in 4-5 years (and yes this takes into account older equipment renewal).
I am usually on Hugh's side when he's doing these more opinionated videos but I have to disagree with him on this one, I think 2G and 3G shutdown is a good thing. And even if he still thinks it's a bad thing, the least he could have done would have been to mention the positives that shutting down these networks bring, but he makes it seem like it's all bad which is dishonest at best, misinforming his viewers at worst.
@@TitusSc did ever considered that a 5G celltower could made be backwards compatible with 3G for example? The excuse 2G and 3G blocks 5G is absolute bullshit
@@TitusSc + the impacts of the eWaste are way worse than the impacts of keeping 3G running (especially when a 5G tower allows backwards compatible communication at the 3G protocol)
T-mobile/Sprint shut down their 3G maybe a year and a half ago. Had to get a new phone back then because voltLTE was a requirement. Current phone is 5G capable but i leave it on 4G to get better batterylife 👀
5g is fast 300mbps second at average some times goes up to 600mpbs depends on the traffic honestly the battery life is bad but technology get better in longer run.
T-Mobile still has 2G running until April btw
Where I live, they already cut off 3G in 2021 but kept 2G intact, so that older phones or phones without internet connection still work, and most emergency equipment should also still work.
This is precisely why the UK isn't shutting down 2G until the 2030s. 3G is going this year/next, but we're keeping 2G until 2033 to give more time for devices like this to be upgraded.
No that's to accommodate the older smart meters that haven't yet got 4G. It's possible there'll be some 2G around 'til then but it's not guaranteed - and the intent is that it's for GPRS data, not voice. Operators have agreed to close 2G and 3G **no later than** 2033.
The iPhone 5s and lower had this problem of not being able to make calls on Jio network in India since they didn't have 3G/2G services to begin with but they did have an app for such devices (wasn't that good of an app).
I don't mind networks shutting older tech if they provide a reliable alternative to work with and at the same time pass on the benefits of their "savings" onto the customers by giving reasonable plans.
That's a Jio problem. And they launched as an LTE only network , mind you. Airtel and Vi still provide 2g , incase the VoLTE is spotty.
Why is that the developed countries have worst, telecom, railways and banking system?
3G was killed off in the U.S. in 2015/2016. You Aussies have been fortunate that you have been given these extra years-- but the Telcos will not be denied indefinitely.
Ever since I moved to my new state, I've noticed that my brother in law gets great reception where mine is crap.
His phone is 5G and mine is 4G.
Tech and software companies don't care if landfills are buried in devices that are not that old, as long as they can keep making money off new devices.
@Hugh I hope you folks over in Australia can get your government to intervene before it’s too late. We lost a majority of our 3G coverage here in rural Nevada, USA Many people including myself, have been forced to switch to new carriers In order to stay connected. While getting a new phone doesn’t sound that bad it has created an entire generation of mobile devices that cannot be used due to carrier locks. 🔐
Also, love your videos I’m going to have my hand at restoring my iPhone SE and gifting it to my 6yr old son for Christmas
At&t in the US has pretty much shut down unlocked phones too. The phone has to support VOLTE At&t has to support your phone as well. It's so annoying that we can't use unlocked phones anymore, unless your carrier supports your phone.
That is something you should have not tolerated and made a big fuss about.
It’s one of the reasons why *_no one_* should mess with AT&T.
In south africa one of the carriers dropped 2g, so my mother's dumbphone suddenly stopped receiving and making calls and messages, she had to change networks. I guess network carriers don't mind losing paying customers and as for 3g that's surprising cause a lot of people still use 3g phones.
I unknowingly bought an international S20 in the US and the 3g shutdown here killed my ability to make phone calls. S20 is still a great phone I refuse to replace it yet. Ive been using Google Voice to make calls as a work around.
it will actually suck if they shut down 3g and H+ in france, since all my phones and family's phones will become useless
Ironically enough the carrier I currently have doesn’t even have 5G. So how this would effect my phone and my service overall certainly has me concerned
birb
Does it have 4G?
The people over seas thought it would not happen to them now here we are. The worst part is the all seeing eye branch, the FCC won't let you make your own network.
Here's the plain situation, there's no negotiation with the fellas at the freaking FCC...
Here in Italy some ISPs have already done it in 2018 while some are holding on.
I get doing it in big cities that are well covered, but it doesn't make sense up in the mountains or in remote locations, where it's very often the only signal you can get.
In the US carriers have been giving free phones to those affected, and VoLTE is a standard here so if your phone has VoLTE it'll work, period. How did Australian networks drop the ball so hard on this?
Exactly what I was going to say. And other than iPhones, there are no Android phones in the US that have software support after 3 years, so the phones shouldn't be used anyways.
If there is no way to connect to the cell towers after the shutdown, the phone is not just ewaste. One could could port their number to Google voice or another voip service and make calls over wifi. True, it's not going to work in the car but it would work at home, work, coffee house or anywhere that has wifi
VOLTE in the US is not a standard. I have multiple VOLTE capable phones, and a lot of them either don't work with any carrier, or work with only T-Mobile.
Also AT&T can just dump old phones, even VOLTE capable ones and force you to upgrade.
@@SHO1989Android phones greatly vary, the latest Pixels get 7 years of updates. You clearly don't know what you're talking about. Also, your device being outdated doesn't mean you'll get viruses the second you don't update.
@@therealmistermemer Yeah as long as you practice basic safety your unlikely to immediately get a virus or something
@@r3n846 the key here is bands. If it doesn't have the bands for that carrier it simply won't work
3G phasing out is part of natural technological progression. One cannot simply just shut down 3G data, the shutdown comes from the fact that NR 5G uses some of the same bands as 3G (900mhz for example). If phones made after 2015 do not support VoLTE is strictly because of carrier greed and them refusing to use the stock VoLTE profiles and mandating OEMs to not allow VoLTE on non branded android firmware. Surprisingly enough, this is where the iPhone does well, it supports VoLTE even on carriers without an apple issued carrier bundle down to the iPhone 6.
This is why iPhones are superior for those who are savvy, and Android phones are for mugs.
@@user-kc1tf7zm3bwhen Apple opens up sideloading I would consider switching. Until then, Android is my only choice.
@@bltzcstrnx Is sideloading really _that_ important? In the more affluent areas of Sydney, Australia, the iPhone adoption rate is in excess of 90%. Most Australians do not care about sideloading at all.
What Australians do care about are is VoLTE, which is universally supported on all iPhones.
@@user-kc1tf7zm3b most people don't need it. That said, some of my apps are sideloaded so I can't really do without it.
I use Android because I don't like Apple's "walled (prison) garden", and I am not fond of the company for other reasons. But lately I have been giving Apple some consideration. :-/
US customer here who has used USCellular, TMobile, and Verizon. Specifically more recently T-Mobile and Verizon. In the last year I’ve hit 3G,2G, E (Edge), 4G, LTE, 5G, 5G UC and 5G UW.
Despite all these shutdowns It always surprises me when I suddenly appear on E or honestly anything below LTE and 4G. It’s even more surprising that across the world we have devices that support LTE but can’t do voice over it.
Honestly would be cool to see some sort of converter that could take say a 5G signal and convert it for your phone (say 2 or 3G) to use. Unfortunately, to my knowledge something like that doesn’t exist, and needless to say that would be extremely complex to pull off.
2G is shutting down here in the UK, 3G has nationwide coverage, even in the worst of areas, you still have at minimum 3 bars. 4G is nationwide but slow in certain areas. 5G is city-only and highways.
If 3G and 4G are being closed, 2G should really be kept as a fallback, like we're doing in Ireland. Cutting all prior to 5G technologies is wreckless and will render so many devices useless.
I had heard somewhere that the 2G standard is being kept in limited operation for special reasons such as in the US where you can call emergency services even from a phone without a sim card or any service. I haven't looked into the specifics of that or whether a sundown date for that plan has been set, but, yes, i agree they need to make sure they plan out these things in such a way that prioritizes service to the user and not worship of Mammon.
We keep feeding a 'god' that has a bottomless stomach and will end up eating us all.
You don't keep feeding an ever growing monster that gets hungrier as it gets bigger and expect that you can hold off the inevitable forever. Simple entropy prevents that.
Damn I was expecting them to phase the out the old standards in at least 5 years time
Very surprised with this video. In India, Airtel (the top provider) shut down 3G entirely years ago, and all users transitioned to LTE (with VoLTE). The other big provider (Jio) never even launched 3G and went straight to 4G with VoLTE.
I would not have imagined that the world is still discussing the impact of 3G shutdown in end-2023.
Agreed, this video is quite sensationalist, and feels like scare-mongering.
Dude, it’s not the first time they’ve done this. When they shut down the CDMA network they told us we would be covers by the 3G network (then branded “Next G” by Telstra.
At the time of the shutdown, I had perfect CDMA coverage at my house, we then had no mobile coverage whatsoever for 10 years.
For the U.S. market viewers, 4G is staying around for a lot more years, no worries. Too many government/state agencies rely on 4G technology and cannot replace certain devices to accommodate (Life Alert for the elderly and disabled being one of the biggest). Only 3G is going, not 4G despite incorrect data being thrown around social media. Therefore, don't just go to the nearest phone store and spend money you don't have to spend to appease carriers profit margins.
At least 4G is sticking around for at least another decade and I plan on keeping my 4G flip phone for as long as I possibly can before it finally stops working.
3G has been dead on all telcos since 2021 here in Malaysia and it was a govt initiative rather than the local telcos decision to make way for more 4G coverage and 5G, the 1st few mnths after the 3G shutdown was truly painful trying to make calls especially since 4G coverage was poor where I live but since then it has been getting better with 4G coverage improving and generally not a lot of ppl here seem to care that 3G is dead. The topic of VoLTE compatible devices is a huge mess here especially if you're on Celcom which only supports very few devices and need to be on Malaysian specific firmware to get VoLTE working.
At least you Malaysians have 2g
@@AGNDoesTech And it was a process with the goverment, not imposed by companies at their mercy only.
@@GYTCommnts Singapore appears to be a join effort with the telcos and the goverment. The goverment previously planned for a 3g shutdown by 2025, although this was not made very clear beforehand
@@AGNDoesTecharen't Singapore already shutdown their 3G networks? I thought they're always early adopters when it comes to technology.
@@bltzcstrnx all three telcos have coordinated with the Singapore goverment to shut down 3G on July 31st 2024.
3G debuted in Singapore in 2005
They should leave 2G/GSM on as a fallback as it's the most widely supported standard.
indonesia dropped 3g last year. although volte has been widely supported by almost every carrier and phone here, there are some occasions where volte can't be relied on. that's where 2g comes. either you use volte to make phone calls, or use 2g. so the death of 3g didn't really impact the communication service or maybe data usage here, at least not that I'm aware of.
For me, killing 3g signal is like killing their text message and regular call services... Almost every old and modern phones still using 3g for emergency purposes if there is no 4g signal in the area.
The last time I did a road trip through the backroads around 25% of the trip only had 3g support and some had zero phone connections available..
They probaboy would have worked with 2G before..
They're running out of frequency bands.
@@zakofrx There are some parts of Northern Ontario that don't have 4G. They didn't have 3G either or 2G or even 1G (analog). When you're in the middle of nowhere, you can't count on cell service being available.
In the UK they say that 2g and 3g will be phased out eventually but could take between 10 and 30 years but not phasing out 4g
He's right. This just happened to me as Kogan (vodafone) shut down 3G a couple of days ago. Been on the phone to Kogan they say I have to contact Samsung to enable VoLTE.
Samsung tech service say the Galaxy S8 + should support VoLTE but no one could get it working on my handset. Your video explained everything. I have obviously lost service and will have to get another phone..Not at all happy!!!
It's possible that your Samsung Galaxy S8 has International Firmware (or is an International Model) and it isn't running AU (or 'XSA' CSC) Firmware. That key piece of information is missing from the Telco Websites as you saw in the video.
Originally those phones were launched with Telco specific firmwares (OPS, VAU, TEL) but now they should all be unified to XSA (Generic AU Retail etc).
You may be able to reflash the phone firmware but that approach may only work if the model number is the exact same as the locally sold AU Samsungs.
There are some links in the Google Doc (in the description) about this issue with Samsung S8-S10 Model Phones, those resources have info on how to change device CSC (Firmware Region) etc.
Alternatively you may be able to Root the phone to make those changes. Though I know with that era of Samsung Phones VoLTE is generally not supported on Custom ROMs/Software. This is because Samsung's VoLTE radio implementation is proprietary/closed source etc.
The only other short term fix would be to port your number over to Telstra or Optus, Optus will have 3G Calling until September 2024.
This video is one or two years late, and I know that you're from Australia that's why you're only making this video now, but for most countries this already happened one or two years ago, would've been a different story if you raised public awareness globally to use people power to stop this, right now most people in the world have already been forced to buy new phones. We're too fragmented, but it's also not our fault, that's how the system is designed to be. This is a concerted effort by both phone manufacturers and network carriers.
And while they're at it, they can try to get the earth to stop turning. Technology moves on and sooner or later old tech gets abandoned. It costs the carriers money to support old services that few use. Instead, they reuse the spectrum the old tech used for new tech.
The 3G shutdown made it so much harder to find an unlocked device for AT&T. It's ridiculous.
And all that just for TikTok and crap like that.
@@AmstradExin I'm disappointed in the 3G shutdown too, but what does Tiktok have to do with this?
@@x_voxelle_x Mobile Internet? Noone cares about voice services anymore. More than 99% of the data is video usage. Just look at a teenager's phone nowadays.
I don't think we have locked phones in Canada anymore.
in my country Indonesia, 3G is long gone already, but 2G still active, so any device that need 2G like EDC, non-VoLTE Phone, etc. still can operate. As for carriers that only support 4G, they make their own VOIP app, so that non-VoLTE phones can still make a call.
Here in Spain Vodafone cuts down 3G without serving VoLTE service in her second brand Lowi.
You can write manually the IMS for VoLTE in your device with root.
nah, 4G's gonna live long. 3G is already pretty much dead here in Czech Rep.
🇨🇿🇨🇿🇨🇿🇨🇿🙌
They're going to have to do some big upgrades to cell towers in rural Canada because I see 3G probably more often than I do LTE. And I've never seen 4G as I don't think we ever really got it, though that may just be more of a visual thing rather than a technical thing (like it might be used behind the scenes)
This is very true. I remember when I used to do a lot of traveling throughout BC and Alberta, there there were numerous dead zones, especially in the mountains between rural towns. Telus and Bell have usually been pretty good about expanding their network coverage, but Rogers is notorious for having zero service even a moderate distance from a populated area.
LTE here in the us/canada is actual 4g.. silly idiots pulled some stunts to market 3g-hsd as 4g here
Why this is not in mainstream news in Australia after all the recent scandal with Optus?!?
Definitely subject for a Royal Commission as to how this decision was taken by the government and service providers!
I reached out to all the major AU media outlets several months ago and none of them have properly covered this story. I did have an hour long on-camera interview with one TV News Station in September and they had committed to running the story. But they have now confirmed they won't be, no explanation given, this is even after the Optus incident. For reference I have also written a 7 page submission to the Optus Inquiry about this VoLTE Issue, so we will see if anything comes of that.
Probably they don’t want risking losing sweet ad revenue!
Did you trying reaching out to other popular Australian CZcamsrs? Like Jordies and Honest Government Ads. I am sure they will hop on this right away.
@@boraoku I suspect so. And I thought about sending it to Jordies but haven't got around to it. I figured Hugh's audience would understand the issue the best. It's a very complex issue that can be hard to explain. With the positive support on this video I think I might flick it across to Jordan.
Good on you mate. Cheers
It seems here in UK the Government are forcing shut down of 3G and 2G networks by end of 2024. I only have a 4G Redmi 9 note pro phone on Vodaphone UK. Vodaphone have already turned off 3G here in my location but not 2G. My phone still works... Mike.