Shortest Possible Takeoff in a Cessna 152 - Short Field Comparisons
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- čas přidán 2. 07. 2024
- Season 3, Episode 3
Ever wonder what's the best take off configuration? Well, we put some of the best know techniques to the test, using our technology, so you don't have to! As always, I am only a pilot sharing my thoughts on the industry. Only a licensed flight instructor can provide advice on aircraft operation, so befriend one as quickly as you can! It's sure paid off well for my education. Need I say more? Come on people: RTFM.
Hey, did you guys know that the FAA actually certifies flight instructors to tell you everything that I try to convey in these videos? You should definitely talk to one of them instead of trusting some video you found on the internet, because who am I to tell you how to fly? I'm just a pilot sharing my experiences with the world, and these videos are not meant to be instructional or advisory in any respect.
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With all the comments here on this method vs that method, and what the FAA says vs what works in the real world, I have to wonder how many people have actually taken off at a short and confined airstrip.
I for one am happy to see someone thinking outside the box and actually looking at some of these methods. As pilots we are always trying to learn, and part of that learning process is questioning our original knowledge of a maneuver, skill, or fact.
Here in Alaska we're dealing with oddball situations all the time, and shorter confined strips. I can tell you right now that the FAA way of teaching short field is incomplete and doesn't always work well.
Thanks for the great video, guys.
Glad we could entertain you and give you something to think about. Blue Skies!
The reason to hold on the breaks before starting the take-off run is to check Ts&Ps when engine is at max throttle before releasing the breaks. But Yes, rolling from taxi to Take-off with out a fullstop is going to grant you a shorter run distance :)
Smart girl.ahmed
I never knew about the first two methods. We fly up in Canada, the 3rd method gets me up fast and I can clear the trees. Yes, momentum is the key for a 2000 pound machine
The rolling transition from taxi to ground run is the preferred method to prevent wind scrubbing on a dirt strip. This keeps the runway operational longer before it requires maintenance.
I remember a long time ago learning to fly (mostly Cessna 150s) there were different procedures for a normal paved runway takeoff versus a short field takeoff, an obstacle clearing takeoff, wet versus dry pavement takeoffs, a normal grass field takeoff versus a wet (or tall) grass field versus a soft field, & so on. I also remember learning to fly in ground effect, dragging the tail tie down on the runway & playing with pitch control to see the effect high angles of attack had on getting/staying airborne - with or without flaps deployed from the start or during the takeoff roll.
Moreover, high wing versus low wing aircraft (like Cessna 150 versus Cherokee 180) have big differences in how approach & takeoff & departure flaps are deployed or are effective & I flew them both. It was lots of fun experimenting & the knowledge served me well later - in fact, it was life saving.
I understand your video's purpose & this isn't a complaint, it was good. But there's more, your takeoff video didn't even touch on runway type or condition, headwinds or crosswinds or tailwinds, angles of attack, high or low wings, ground effect, or the interesting differences between tricycle gear & tail dragger takeoffs, nor mention today's amazing STOL aircraft capabilities. I'd think the 1st 2 or 3 of them worth demonstrating how they affect how fast the wheels can clear the ground & get an aircraft flying.
Great job Tyler in teaching and demonstrating variations on technique and how they may help in the real world! FAA standards teach and create safe, competent pilots but when you really know your plane there’s opportunity to further expand that safety margin when really needed.
Thank you for sharing. You are demonstrating good piloting skills and how to maximize aircraft performance, something all pilots should practise every now and then. Several accidents in commercial aviation have occurred on behalf of piloting skills (or the lack of it, rather).
I was an Air Traffic Controller at a small muni in Latrobe, PA circa 1990....there was a guy that flew a Cessna and would request "Immediate right turn"...he would roll out no more than 50 yards and that plane appeared to float straight up...he banked right and continued climbing...it was quite amazing....
Hey Nick!! Loving the content, keep up the great work!
Thanks, old friend :)
Hey very great video man. Keep the great work up ☺
Well done video! Would love to see a FAA Private Pilot Exam video been waiting for some time for it
We'll be doing that as a part of Killian's "Private Pilot from Start to Finish" series, I swear!!
Nice experiment in the ole 152.The last take-off while continuing taxi to rotation is a common technique for a soft field departure.Those are fun to do on regular paved runways as well as grass runways.I love this video with such a popular trainer!
I like that plane too. Nothing I would really want to own myself, but the word that comes to mind when describing such a tiny, yet well performing, and formidable trainer, is just adorable. Glad you enjoyed :)
Pretty informative, good and professional without being dorky.
Awesome video and trails. Keep'em coming
Thanks, mate! We do our best!
thanks for the trip down memory lane! I got my private at 1B9 back in 1997!!
Que saudades, fui Piloto de Avião durante 30 anos ( desde Angola a Portugal ), pilotei vários modelos de avião, nomeadamente os modelos Cessna 150, Cessna 152, Cessna 172, etc, etc. Saudades. Bons voos.
While this is a good video showing how much shorter you could make a takeoff roll there are considerations before anyone just goes out and attempts these alternate means of a short field takeoff. IMO the reason why the current "FAA" method is taught to students is because it takes into account the safety aspect of performing such a maneuver. Putting the flaps down right before rotation in method #2 is a big distraction during a super critical phase of flight and presents a hazard should there be a malfunction with the flaps, such as asymmetry for example. I don't think we really want to encourage students that the faster we take the runway the shorter your ground roll will be like demonstrated in method #3; that's just a loss of control accident waiting to happen. I don't mean to rant, but rather make pilots aware of some of the potential problems before encouraging them to go out and try something like this, especially our new pilots. Fly safe!
Couldn't agree more, was going to comment the same thing. You wouldn't want the distraction, and wouldn't want to find out that this is when your flaps decided to fail or come down asymmetrically (Your rotation would be frighteningly close to stall speed as it is). If those few feet of runway length difference actually matters to you, that is not the best decision to even attempt such a departure under the present conditions.
That being said, thanks for the informative video. Cool experiment!
Yes, I am fun at parties. Ish.
A new pilot should know their limitations and fly within their abilities. If adding flaps is a distraction on the roll, then don't do it, but there is nothing wrong with an experienced pilot pulling flaps at rotation speed. In fact, it has saved me once or twice.
ArcticMayhem, why did you need to be "saved"? If the runway was really that short, should the plane have been there in the first place?
If you're talking about bush flying, that's a different story I guess.
Hey ArcticMayhem, I couldn't agree more with you. Adding flaps on the roll isn't a distraction to some pilots! If it is then simply don't do it. As a pilot you should always have your own personal limits or minimums.
Flaps are simply a control surface. They're no different than manipulating your yoke or rudder. Why be scared of them?
IIRC, in a '66' C150 we used 20* (manual) for short field. We used rolling T.O. plus #2 flap method.
thanks for the vid- good work !
Attempt #3 was basically the soft field takeoff procedure. It would be wise to not taxi on too quickly. Also, following the procedure in the POH is always the better way.
Dammit FSF. I've been sitting here for an hour waiting for this so I can be first and as soon as I go for a pee you upload.
Hahahaha I planned it that way ;)
Great Video! Very Helpful! I am saving up for a cessna 150 and want to get short field down. You should make a follow up video with holding brakes and full throttle VS no brakesa
It's true that the added momentum to round the corner and centerline the plane may be critical in a short field with obstacles... but by stopping all other times you break the work load down to benefit by one last check of seat locks, flaps, traffic, reference materials, etc.
The minimized drag from a proper departure flap setting should be in the POH.
i dont know anything about flying planes but i watch your videos cause they help calm down anxiety attacks since i love planes
haha that's why I watch them too! XD
Awesome, thanks!!!
I have seen several back country/bush plane vids where, (especially in a nice Cessna 170 tail dragger with tundra tyres), the pilot adds full power, gets the tail up, builds initial speed and then dumps in a load of flap and pulls.....it looks like a vertical take off! They then nose over to build airspeed and decrease flap again until a decent climb speed is attained. You would need great skills to judge performance and conditions and I imagine plenty of practice in a safe environment before taking it into the wild. Heaps of fun though!
Excellent technique. I would just add leaning the engine at full power. Depending on altitude and temperature you will get a significant increase in horsepower. You can practice this before hand if you don't have a cylinder head temp gauge by leaning till there is a slight drop in rpm and then richen to increase 50 RPM, or with the gauge, leaning to max temp and richen for a slight drop. Also there is something to be said for horsing the plane off into ground effect and stay with a few feet of the deck using max ground effect to keep you airborne until climb speed is reached.
So I know I'm late making a common however my home airport was Marlborough Massachusetts 9B1. One of the shortest paved runways in the country if not the shortest 1682' 1400' usable between trees on one side and a fence on the other.
At my report we were always more comfortable with holding it on the ground until you had a couple knots faster than Vx vigorously pull it off the ground without stalling. Not a matter of getting the wheels off the ground it's a matter of getting flyable and clear of obstacles. If you had no obstacles you can just fly off the cliff and gain airspeed.
Unfortunately 9B1 is no longer. It soon to become an industrial park.
I've landed there. The Stop sign on the fence at the end of the runway could get pretty big... Sorry to see it go.
Bummer about the loss of your airport. The, Keep the weight on the wheels until you reach VX is correct. No induced drag that way. I never liked the ( Raise the nose and let it fly when it's' ready) BS. I'd leave the nose down until I saw I had flyable airspeed and then pop it off. By the way, your short field take offs weren't just for practice like it was for most of us.
After reading through all the comments I'm convinced that there is no reason not to practice such maneuvers. You don't want to do them all the time as a matter of course for the reasons mentioned in that they complicate things when unexpected things occur. However having more skills available to yourself while also understanding the pluses and minuses of any situation can only be helpful.
Good job!
Thank You!
It's back!
Since delaying application of flaps helped, and skipping the stop before take-off helped, I'm wondering why you didn't try doing both in the same take-off.
I don't know why to be honest! I guess you can pretty easily surmise that it should also be a little shorter, but I'm sure I didn't have to tell you that ;)
Because he is not the smartest on the planet. Btw. where is he? No.videos since a long time.
Excellent
You want the absolute shortest ground roll possible? Take off with full flaps. The 150/152 will literally jump off the runway. You’ll initially be flying in ground effect. It’s obviously not a procedure that’s recommended but I’ve done it and know it works. You do need an extended clear take off path, as you have to ever so slowly milk the flaps up while continuing to increase flying speed. The only time I’d recommend using this technique is if you need to break ground contact at the earliest possible time / shortest distance possible (marsh-type land or sand bar). And, as I said you’ll need an extended, clear takeoff path to allow you to slowly, slowly retract flaps.
This is entertaining thanks!
Success! I like your username, btw.
Pretty cool video
Hey, thanks for doing this video. I've wondered for fifty years which one of those methods would produce the shortest takeoff roll. Now I'm too old to use 'em... HA!!!
Sounds kinda like, "If I knew then what I know now" I wouldn't have wasted so much runway.
A lot of the bush guys on youtube do method #3, but instead of rolling on from a taxiway, they basically do a wide-radius 180 turn on the "runway" because they don't have a taxiway. Makes sense for a little GA-piston to do #3, because there isn't really any lag between applying full-throttle and achieving max-power. A jet-engine plane might need Method #1 or #2.
Although, with method #3, I wouldn't recommend that to low-time pilots. Higher potential for them to mess it up to the point that any small benefit gained in this method is lost by their technique and potentially puts them in a situation where they drive the plane off the runway or tip the plane onto its wing.
Lol I can imagine how a student would mess that up :P Good point about the turbines. I wonder what the short field T/O procedures are for a 737 or such.
As far as I know, large airliners such as the 737NG don't have a short field take off procedure, there is only a standard takeoff. In the 737NG, you line up on the runway, release the brakes, then advance the throttles to about 40% N1. Once the engines have stabilized, the pilot will then hit the TO/GA button on the throttles, which then hands over control of the throttles to the autothrottle system. Pushing the TO/GA button will then move the throttles to the predetermined Takeoff-Go around power setting (usually around 95% N1, plus or minus 5%). From there on out, it's just monitoring airspeed and making the standard callouts. The normal range of flap settings for takeoff is 1, 5, or 15 degrees, but sometimes the crew will opt for 25 degrees at airports like St. Maarten, where the departure involves a short runway with a steep climbing right turn in hot, humid weather.
I have a flight on Sunday with my instructor, and I want to bring up the third takeoff technique with him. I always thought rolling onto the runway continuously was the best idea, but I still think it's just a good idea to ask about it since I was taught the first technique. Great experiment, hope to see more like it!
very.cool great job on this video and I do appreciate it too...Thank you
Glad somebody does :)
I like Mansfield. It was the location of my 1st night flight cross country and then a day dual cross country. Right alongside 495 and the theater. Thanks for sharing.
That's the place! Glad you enjoyed. Where were you based?
I'm doing my flight training at CQX Chatham
Nice little airport you guys have out there. Based a whole bunch of adventures with friends there last year on the channel if you go back a bit. Good luck, friend!
magnificent...
haha this was a great video and that fellow has some nice skillz xD
Call 911 For Cookies thank you!
Nice 👍👍👍
Beautiful airplane
Very interesting
In normal conditions, I rarely take off in my C150 with any flaps, but I've done it. It seems flaps add little in short field capability. I don't like retracting flaps after take off, as it is another task to add in while watching the airspeed and feeling for signs of stall.
One can use the flaps "at the last minute" also, to gain some precious space on an emergency landing.
I think it is fairly obvious that method 3 was always going to resullt in the shortest take off since you already have speed built up for faster airflow over the wing to get the lift required for rotation.
That's what we thought too. We just had to prove it.
A very talented instructor taught me a somewhat difficult technique. You "S" turn down the runway keeping the outside tire light using full aileron. the final turn before breaking ground is entirely on the inside main wheel. The "S" pathway shortens the distance. I'm also a Sailplane guy.. hence the 301 in my name. H-301.
It would be interesting to know you take off speed too, that would be the main indicator in my opinion.
I’ve done my share in a 172! ;)
Impressive and imformative, thank you
I try my best!
A short field take off assumes a 50 ft obstacle at the end of the runway where the need to clear the obstacle is a factor for the particular runway. In a C-152, Cessna recommends 0 flaps and rotating just before "best angle" of climb. Then maintain best angle (Vx) until the obstacle is cleared. After you are clear, then maintain best "rate" of climb (Vy). It's not important how soon you get off the runway. What is important is that you maintain Vx asap until the obstacle is cleared.
Back in the 1960's, Cessna did an experiment to see if holding the brakes and going to full power (static take off) had any advantage over a normal rolling take off. There was no significant difference. Also, flaps on take off are good for a "soft" field because you want to get off into "ground effect" asap so you don't damage the plane, but in a C-152, flaps do NOT improve climb performance for Vx or Vy.
Try doing a short field take off on a "soft' field. In a C-152 use 10 to 20 degrees of flaps. Hold almost full aft elevator and apply power slowly so the tail doesn't hit the ground. Get into ground effect asap and stay there until you reach best Angle speed Vx. Then raise the flaps and maintain Vx until the obstacle is cleared. Then go to Vy. It takes a little practice, but it could be asked of you on the flight test.
That's exactly how I learned it 20 years ago!
@@GregHuston Exactly how I learned it this year. If it is the POH and you don't follow it, then you are to blame when things go wrong.
short field performance assumes something like a required backtrack for whatever your reason. Using the taxiway for a rolling start would be considered an unofficial extension of the runway.
Practical life and FAA are two different animals. My instructor one time got on to me, as I was nearing my checkride, that messing with radios and PFDs while taxiing was a no-no to the FAA, however in real life no one cares and we will do it.
If nothing else, you would be demonstrating to the Examiner that you know the rules and how to follow them, making him/her feel better about certifying you with a PPL. As you gain more experience you should be able to make good judgments about what you can or can't do in any given situation. Its too bad we can't get explanations for WHY the FAA institutes a particular rule.
Cool !!!
Thanks for the flat spot!
Yeah, no shit! If you enjoy doing brakes and changing tires, be a flight school mechanic!
nice! I really enjoyed the video. But maybe the third take off is not written on the manual not because it isn't practical or good but because in real life doing a short take off applies to short runways that probably and most likely won't have a taxi way. nice technique though!
Immediately after shooting this video, Tyler said something like, "ugh, then somebody's going to be like, oh they probably won't have a taxiway there. Ok, well then don't do that there." We have a good sarcastic time predicting comments :P
Glad you enjoyed! :)
I don't remember hearing you mention any change in wind or temperature, but I expect you had pretty much identical conditions... even a tiny bit less gas weight each time. Fun test! Thanks!
Great video! So what were the final lengths for all three takeoffs?
Cool and valid experiment, but I have yet to see any short fields that have Taxi ways. Many shorter fields you have to use the runway as a taxi way and turn around at the end of the runway to take off. I did my first few lessons not far west of you guys at 7B2 (did the rest of my training in FLA where it's a lot warmer).
Just moved to Palm Beach! Isn't this place a paradise!?
thanks. great video. I heard it all. 😉😉
Haha Thanks for checking back in ;)
pleasure, i really dig your vids
Haha saw this was posted and deleted yesterday. Glad it's back up!
How the heck did all you guys see that video?! It was like 4am for me!
Fairly certain CZcams sent all subscribers an email :)
While I've got you here, just wanted to say that your videos are immensely entertaining to watch. I'm currently 15 years old and I've just begun training in a 172.
Aw, thanks, mate! Glad you've started your adventure. Let me know if there's ever anything I can do for you :)
Trial #4 attach plane to Navy aircraft carrier steam catapult 100 ft. Now yer flying :)
lol
I think I read somewhere that the Navy is trying to decommission using steam for their catapults now...
The latest ship uses a magnetic rail catapult system. So not steam driven but it will be in service for 30 years at least.
Taking a 150 off a carrier deck with the ship going flank speed into a stiff wind and you won't need the catapult. Viewed from the flight deck it would probably appear that the plane would be taking off backward.
Which means you have to make sure the aircraft won't be blown of the deck before the intended takeoff ... Maybe tiedowns and axe men ;-) Whatever, what could possibly go wrong ...
so 2 comments. these methods might help you get of the ground a second faster but it should really be over a obstacle that you are testing for, at the slower speed it might not get out of ground effect.
Second on a short field the yolk should be neutral until airspeed is able to allow for climb. By holding it back you increase drag and distance.
Aeroworks540 .... good point on increasing drag!
Yep, Dont force the plane to fly on ground effect on short take offs. Get to Vr, then raise that nose. Not before.
You definitely will get the shortest ground roll by keeping your momentum. The reason it is recommended to use all available runway and stop and run up the engine is to ensure engine instruments are working.
If you were to use the third method and have some sort of issue then you would have already used up runway and that does no good since that runway is now behind you. Again, you definitely are going to get the shortest roll by keeping your momentum, however in a real short-field situation you don't want to take chances with runway behind you and then having a problem that you could have solved/found by stopping and running up the engine.
Well then I suppose the easy answer is to do that runup a few feet back before rolling, no?
Friendly Skies Film that could work. I'm not saying it's bad to roll and go. Just stating why the FAA wants it done a certain way.
If you are on a field so short that the only way to get out is the roll and go method, that's just bad planning (aircraft shouldn't have landed there).
Finally, in the video you demonstrated getting the aircraft off the ground as fast as possible, but that's not the goal of a short field takeoff. The goal is to build up speed to Vx and then lift off.
On the other hand, many short fields are also soft fields so depending on potential obstacles you'll have up decide which is more important. Again, we shouldn't really ever find ourselves in a situation where the POH numbers are too short. If so, that's bad planning.
"The goal is to build up speed to Vx and then lift off."
Exactly. I was actually taught to actually push the yoke slightly at the beginning of a short field takeoff.
Video didn't go into much detail about the pilot's procedures but it looked to me like he wasn't pulling the plane off in ground effect, he was letting it fly off and climb, which suggests he was at or close to Vx for the configuration. If that's true, then he demonstrated that you can change how much ground you burn while getting to, or close to, Vx. Having said that, I did hear the stall warning on at least one climb out so he may have been further below Vx than we'd want for a fair comparison. Ideally he'd be climbing out at the exact same IAS in each case.
That aside, if the field is truly short for the situation, you may just need to get off the ground as quickly as possible before the desirable surface ends (assuming no obstacles to clear). In that case, you don't really need to reach Vx, soft field technique may actually be best there - worth testing. :)
When pilots blindly apply POH procedures regardless of the situation I worry a bit. Following soft field technique when there's a 100' tall tree to clear at the end or a mountain to climb over - could kill someone. POHs don't explicitly lay out all possible scenarios and give specific guidance for each one. They expect us to interpolate the information and apply it to our specific scenario ourselves. We already know this from working with climb gradient charts and landing distance tables, etc. Why we would then assume the need for interpolation only applies in those areas, doesn't make sense.
Finally, manuals are written with input from the legal team. Always. They're not telling you the best performance you can get out of the airplane, they're telling you what should be safe regardless of your skill or experience as a pilot. That's one reason this type of testing often produces different results than the POH guidance. Nothing wrong with following the POH guidance (with interpolation as necessary) and knowing you're safe.
I think I've said this before, but can you answer all my comments? Where are you based again? All of your comments are just so in line with what we discuss at our school, it would be really great to chat sometime.
It just occurred to me that the title of this video is incorrect because he was, as he said, "Letting this bird come off the ground when it wants to." Some of you probably know that he could have broken ground sooner by not using the stupid (Let it fly when it's ready) method. Of course, after he lifted off, he would have had to slowly lower the nose while just above the runway to get to a safe climb out speed. But this video is not about clearing an obstacle. It's just about braking ground in the shortest distance. Verdict: Video title is deemed click bait. Well, I guess the "Comparisons" part of it is OK.
If you really want to stop on a dime, hold both doors open after touchdown as far a possible.
It works!
you may also runing beside the aircraft while it s building speed
Fred Flintstone it!
daffidavit is this an actual technique? I can’t tell if your joking but it’s sounds logical haha
The Cessna airbrakes
Ive watched so many of these types of videos im ready to try flying and do it solo..Doesnt look so hard to fly..
Burt Rutan always thought rolling with flaps up was quickest and built a light cargo demonstrator, it had hydraulics that dropped the flaps in a second, the airplane lept off the ground. And look up how Jimmy Dolittle taught himself and crews how to get a fully loaded B25 airborne in under 400 feet because that was what they were going to have on the flight deck. Wild stuff. And many moons ago flying in a DC9-30 running late because a fruitloop had to sit at the emergency exit, they get FL into her assigned seat (you have an assigned seat because when the airplane hits the ground very often they will find most of your corpse still strapped into your seat which makes identifying you much easier) the pilot gets the wave from the ground crew who took off running as the pilots punches it in reverse. It wild, stuff blowing up 4 stories over the roof of the terminal. Drop her into drive and punch it down the taxiway, hoping they had clearence as we had to be doing 60 hanging a right then full throttle over to the runway and tires screeching onto the runway. Best flight ever.
Want to see some short field landing
What about doing your run up then taxi onto without stopping but have full power before aligned with the runway while using a hint of breaks to maintain control of the extra power then release the remaining break when actually aligned for takeoff. Sorry for the runon sentence. That way you'll know you have full military power and not waist runway with the time of advancing the throttle. Again your throttle is already at full power?
"break" "waste" sp?
So, is this a soft short field takeoff video. Huh I'll buy that.
where is your music credits?? curious because I really liked one of the background tunes that you played. I did think also that you are suppose to list the artist and or music played.
I used the rolling take off with my 150 nearly always on a short field. You never tried the combination rolling take off flaps up until lift off speed is achieved then 10 percent. I think that would have been the shortest but I've never tried it.
Nice video friend #1
Thanks, friend #34,690. Haha, just kidding, you guys are all #1 fans to me :)
Try full flaps, stick right back ,full power....once off the ground feed the stick in to maintain level flight just off the ground....great for grass runways
Try 20 degrees of flaps and some elevator back pressure, bring the AC off the pavement but stay ground effect. You'll get off pretty quick. Stay in GE until you have the air speed you'd need to rotate if you had stayed on the pavement. It's the soft field technique.
We used to take the 152s into a muddy field. On takeoff, we'd kick in 20 degrees and wallow around on a roll out then pull hard to pop free. Again be careful you're right at stall and hanging on prop. Then fly along, building airspeed,right above the ground. Inches above the ground. The a/c gets quite muddy. I wish the little 152 had just a bit more power. Fly Save.
I've seen some of the Bush STOL pilots online rollout no flaps and rapidly deploy them shortly after roll. looks like they are pulling the emergency brake in a car for a power slide. Granted they were the old manual flaps versus powered, but very cool. They don't have the taxiways to keep momentum out in the bush, so that is never an option.
That's why I want to try this in a Piper next. Deploy 45 degrees flaps in a half second.
Friendly Skies Film I was thinking that too. I know low wings are not used in back country, but using that technique should be useful. That rapid deployment has got to be a cool feeling
At my ATO we fly Pipers, and the school procedures for a short field take-off is 25 degrees, hence the best lift to drag ratio.We den stay in the ground effekt while accelerating and cleaning up flaps, then climb Vy, or climb Vx just as soon as lift-off, then when past the obstacle when start cleaning up etc. (ofc with backpressure on the roll too)
But that's just my ATO's procedures :)
Let's get out there and try it!
They are Blockhead CFI's if they still use the 1950 method.. On a non grass, you dont need flaps to accelerate, I learned to put flaps just after rotation in 1979. Saved my live that trick later on.
I know this video was posted a while ago, but I'm wondering how these tests would be different if, say, more flaps were used right until the aircraft was off the ground, and then they were immediately dialed back for best climb rate. So like, use full flaps until you feel the plane catching air, then raise them back up a notch or two for best climb. Wonder what effect that would have on the take-off distance.
An abrupt reduction of flaps can set you right back on the runway. Plan ahead as to whether you require best angle (Vx) or best rate (Vy).
What if you carry on the runway no flaps then put in flaps after you get up speed
the phantom video is back
Shhhh, you never saw that.
That's the nice thing about Cessna products. Many roads lead to a city!
I don't get it. Is this a cryptic message, or are you just high?
@@philipmartin708 It's an old saying about how things can be done several ways. Like takes offs and landings. I guess you need to be a pilot to understand, right?
@@globalaide49 Well, I'm a pilot, or at least use to be, I am unfamiliar with the old saying and how relates to this video this video.
I know a guy named "Jack" who works as a radio tech at our local airport. When his friends pass him by they say "7600".
That's great! :D
is this the MFD airport with subway? I fly out of 15G, did my first solo towered airport landing and second landing of my first x-country flight at MFD this summer. Still a student pilot...
cute
Very cool! I wonder if the FAA wants us to come to a complete stop and deploy flaps before the roll so we're not thinking about a whole bunch of stuff at once. Keep it simple seems to be the FAA way. But what's the fun in that!!!
That's definitely why I would want students to do it that way. That's why we don't usually let students do touch and gos without an instructor, at least.
security
I always liked soft / short field take offs. Yoke in your chest, 10 degrees flaps. Just don’t let the tail drag.
This is a more advanced technique that should only be exercised by pilots who have been properly vetted by an instructor to perform a "rolling takeoff". Using the whole runway and coming to a complete stop is all about safety. With brakes applied and power added, the pilot should be looking for any abnormalities in engine performance prior to the takeoff role. The idea is that if the engine is not producing enough power for takeoff, there is not enough runway to accelerate to takeoff speed and come to a complete stop. Also, I thought you were not supposed to land on displaced thresholds as those are reserved for takeoff?
Not really relevant to the subject of the video: As a non-pilot, I gotta say how surprised I was at the incredible visibility afforded by the 152's cockpit! Aesthetically, I prefer low-wing aircraft such as the Warrior, but the view from the 152/172 Cessnas seems pretty darn epic. Think I'll need to pay for rides in each and get a 1st-person perspective. 🛩
Try the Trinidad Tobago: Seats 5, 250 HP, quite low "Glare Shield" or "Dash!" Also Great Views!
Can I ask what weather conditions were during this test?
You flat spotted that tire!😱
Squwak 1200 and have fun.
Hey, guys... Wonder what the performance would be like using all 3 scenarios at a higher-than-normal density altitude on a hot summer day? Do you do a full-stop, full-runup, brakes released takeoff or would the rolling takeoff be better since you're already carrying momentum onto the runway?
Watch that SCREECH on landing with pressure on the brakes. I actually blew a tire once when I landed with inadvertent pressure on the brakes (also in a 152).
Some good observations.
To be more scientific, you would need to fill up the fuel tanks after each run.
I'm not sure if the distance gained is sufficient to justify the added complexities; as it may be better to have a more stabilized TO. i.e. Lined up, align HI w/ compass, truly look over instruments, etc.
Fill up the tanks? He just lifted off and landed immediately on the first two. How mush gas could he have used by the time he lifted off the third time? He had to get it done quick before the temp or wind changed which would have skewed the results way more than the weight of a half gallon of gas.
Of course the flaps up will generate less drag helping to accelerate faster.
But there is good reasons why they are not used, I just guessed it but I am sure that my guess are accurate.
If you have an issue with your flaps, you better have them stuck at 10° than at 0°, both for avoiding too long and difficult takeoff and a landing with no flaps.
And when stopping full brakes with full throttle you both check your brakes and your engine that way, of course smaller aircraft test their brakes when they start rolling and the engine is usually tested before entering the runway where you check the two spark-plug circuits, but for bigger aircraft like airliner or even private jet I don't think this is in their procedure, so having the same procedure for all might be better.
The only exception are military jet, not only some have automatic flaps which move as they maneuver the aircraft and therefor need to be very reliable (but I can't see any example of one who start rolling without flaps), but also when they scramble they often carry their momentum from the taxiway to the runway.
Taxi onto the active in method 3 was way faster than a normal taxi, and you nearly struck the tail at the take off point too trying to drag that thing off the ground. Not saying it wouldn't be the best method for a short field take off but not that aggressively!
I bet you that with more weight in the airplane method 3 would show even more of an improvement. Inertia would become even more important.
Very True!! I wish I had thought of that!
No way. If the plane was heavier it would have accelerated slower, used up more runway to reach flying speed, and stall speed would be higher. So in other words, the lighter, the better.
@@philipmartin708 I think you misunderstood my comment and rereading it from 3 years ago I see that it's not your fault since the language isn't clear. I meant that if the airplane was carrying the same X additional weight for all three methods then method 3 would show even more of an improvement over the other two at that weight.
Once cleared to enter runway and depart why would you full stop? All final rechecks should be done while holding short, then roll center and go. Been in lines where you needed to pack a lunch!
It's recommended procedure by the FAA and the POH to apply full brake pressure and wait for the engine to develops full power before starting the takeoff roll on a short runway.
For the first 3 trials I would add rotate at 54mph (Vx), climb to 100 ft. agl then lower the nose for 67mph (Vy). Sorry, I'm not current anymore; I'm pretty sure the airspeeds I listed are mph rather than knots.