Table Manners | Creating Cuisine
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Fluidscape Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
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Consider the Fork, Bee Wilson
The Rituals of Dinner, Margaret Visser
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www.bbc.com/worklife/article/...
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Ah yes, the stressful part of my childhood. Figuring out unspoken etiquette.
As someone who grew up in an extremely multi cultural area while autistic, this was half the things I worried about back then😂
As a Swede I would like to point out that, even if children visiting their friends often don’t get served dinner, they will most likely be served “fika”. Most of the time, the kid will have left their friends house by dinner time, but they will still be at their friends house at 3pm/4pm which is a great time for a cookie and some lemonade, and it still leaves room for dinner with your own family later. Bonus points if you have something you baked yourself to serve. It’s not that we don’t feed our guests, we just do it in a different way 😅
As another Swede, from my experience it’s always been kind of the opposite. The guests often stay until dinner and usually it’s considered rude to start eating before the guests have gotten their food. I guess there isn’t just one Swedish way to do things.
I do love a good “fika” though!
"There are starving children in... some far away place we think is poor." I haven't laughed at a video this hard in a while! This is probably my favorite of your videos aside from Elush clothing :)
Truly the threatening equivalent of "Please eat these for the poor kids out there!"
As a french, trust me it's never rude to come to a dinner with a whine bottle, but it will probably be stored for later consumption though
Exactly. Or you would be asked to bring the wine in advance so that you know which bottle to buy.
This is such a simple, yet succinct video that manages to both serve to make people consider something they likely hadn't at all considered about their worldbuilding, but also think consciously about a lot of the subconscious "dance" of etiquette we all perform to on the regular. And all with such engaging video editing/scripting/delivery/etc. Well done, this is really good.
I always got annoyed at "proper etiquette" or ppl who act like their culture has the objectively right ways of showing respect & offense, bc i knew that there's always a culture out there that finds the exact opposite things respectful/offensive. I love to see worldbuilding that incorporates things like that.
Love these kinds of video's so much, probably because I tend to overfocus on the "big" things in worldbuilding like languages. It is really refreshing to think about those smaller things that in a way matter more in day to day life of these imagined people
Thank you! I love little domestic bits of worldbuilding like this :D
table etiquette is both the most fascinating and pointless part of so many cultures LMAO I love it
in my house growing up, food was served one dish at a time, & there was a very specific order to the food. & then after everything, the dessert would be served if there was any. We also sing songs at the table together. Recently i had a culture shock where i ate a meal at someone's house where they just had everything out all at once, buffet style, & then when ppl felt done theyd move over to the couch in the living room. then a few hours later everyone went back to the table for dessert. I found it interesting how different 2 cultures can eat so differently. That dessert thing is what shocked me most. That theyd eat everything really quickly, then take a few hours break socializing in a different room, & then come back for dessert. I'm used to eating slowly since every dish comes one at a time, & then dessert is served right afterwards, & then once it's over ppl leave the table & you dont come back for part b.
Great video! Really intresting to see other cultures food rules
As a side note, im swedish and has never heard of this "dont call the unexpected child guest to dinner". But then again, ive always told my parents when i had a friend over and if they were staying for dinner
Oh, neat! I was fascinated by etiquette growing up (both because I've always liked learning about other cultures, and because I've always liked learning about history and thought the idea of a finishing school was very novel), so when I started worldbuilding, it was one of the first things I thought about. But this video is making me realise I've still got some room to build, which is great! There's a plot point in one of my stories where the protagonist fucks up the local etiquette really badly and annoys everyone around him (sorta reinforcing his sense of loneliness), and I've just thought of some extra layers I can add to that moment.
EEE thank you!! I'm glad it could inspire you :D
fab as always. the cute little sliders definitely made me think about where my own conculture fits on them!
In secondary school, on the way back from a science club trip, we stopped for a planned meal at a restaurant. One student’s meal was delayed, but I just began eating. My teacher looked at me and in an annoyed (I would say condescending) tone, he said something along the lines of “it’s rude to eat before all the food arrives” and basically implied that I didn’t have manners. He then asked that student if it was okay to begin eating while she waited. In my family, we just eat whenever our food arrives. Plus I’m a picky eater (even more so back then) and occasionally I’m given food that doesn’t match my order and has to be sent back, so it would be impractical to wait for everyone’s food to arrive. Even now, I’m unsure if it’s generally rude not to wait or if it was just that teacher who saw it as rude. I mainly only remember it because of how embarrassed it made me feel.
This applied to my own Drows:
They are somewhere in between a restrained culture and an open one. They have one focus: keep society running in the long run, and they strongly value stoicism above all else. In their culture, torture is completely normal, and nearly 100% of their population were subjected to it at some point during their lifetime, and are often forced to eat rané (a special species of autotrophes) that block endorphines while producing an intense burning sensation. They also value harsh discipline, but not necessarely comformity.
-Any signs of bodily functions must be repressed. So, no burping, farting or moaning. Restrained. They even consider animated conversations at the dinner table to be improper.
-Only the leaders of the house, namely the elders and the male head of house can sit in the comfortable tailor position. The rest must sit in the W position. It is considered especially rude to not sit in a W position as a house guest. Having a hierchical society but without furniture, this arrangement shows deference to the leaders, as well as an act of religious devotion. In religious orders, everybody is required to sit in a W position, and hierchy is shown with the leader sitting in the center of the circle.
-Children are expected to sit in W position, to keep their thighs bare and their left hand lifted and flat, palm upward. It is seen as a sign of deference towards the elders, of acceptance of house rules and discipline and is considered good for their coordination. Smaller children are allowed more leaway because their coordination is still underdevelopped, but after a certain point, they would be expected to sit like that nice and still.
-They view routine as a way of honoring the dead, by keeping the same routine for several generations. Findling with dinner time is there for considered about as polite as spiting on someone's grave.
-In terms of eating, they do not have eating tools such as forks, instead the food is passed with only three fingers of the right hand to the mouth, although, spoons might be used to eat soup.
-Certain foods, such as fish liver, are considered very precious. It's one of the rare sources of vitamin D in their environment, and thus is usually reserved for the elderly, children, pregnant women and those with fractures. For grown, healthy adults to eat it, it shows they are selfish and take away a precious ressource from people who need it.
-In both the upper classes and the pariah circles, it is considered good a sign of strength, social fitness and good health to eat heartily and cheerfully right after being beaten. Failing to do so is considered weak and effeminate, plus, they would need the extra nutrition to recover more quickly. There is more pressure to do so in their men and in their women, since they associate masculinity with strength. Commoners view this custom as bizarre. In Drow culture, they also tend to value sexual masochism in their men as a sign of healthy virility and reproductive fitness. In upper class and commoner circle, failure is simply seen as slightly less attractive, while in their pariah circles, their women would systematically reject the romantic advances of a man who isn't. However, the same masochism is viewed as repulsive in their women. This culture strongly values being able to live and function in constant pain, and see it as the highest virtue one can aspire. Thus, inhability to continue the simple biological functions of eating and reproducing while in severe physical pain is seen as being an epic failure. However, because having an entire population comprised of crazy masochists would be quite a detriment to any society, and because of their humanoid body plan, the importance of this masochism is reserved for their men.
-One should eat everything on one's plate, failing to do so is considered wasteful.
-Whenfresh berries are available, if a man's wife is pregnant or lactating, or if a couple expect their adult son to perform his "marital and filial duties", the berries are reserved for either the new mother or the newly weds. Kids who would fail to do so would simply be considered greedy, while if let's say the man of the house fails to do so, he's considered gross and selfish.
When i was little if my being around a friends house hadn't been prearranged and I was still there when it was time for dinner their parents would send me back home to ask my parents if it was alright. At which point they would give their verdict and I would run back to my friends house either for dinner or to tell them that I couldn't. The advantages of living in a village where 90% of your friends lived 30 seconds run from you i guess. You'd never be fed without permission from your own parents (who - now that I'm thinking about it - were probably doing a little etiquette dance of their own in their heads) but you might be given a snack.
I'm sure if you knew a child wasn't being fed properly or that their parents were poor enough that it would matter you would feed them anyway. And anything goes if it was pre-arranged. But if you weren't allowed to stay for dinner you wouldn't be allowed to stay in the house. That was going home time.
I'm from England, if someone is collecting data or something.
very nice video, i don't think i would've thought about table manners when worldbuildung if i hadn't seen this
the themed patreon supporters list at the end is super cute (also awesome video in general :D)
excellent as always, best content in the worldbuilding sphere--I particularly enjoy these videos that are equally interesting as worldbuilding inspiration, and as a lightweight comparative anthropology crash course.
I've thoroughly enjoyed your content ever since the Seal Milk video led me to discover this channel--keep up the good work!!!
these longer videos probably take a lot of extra effort to keep them engaging, but it definitely pays off.
Thank you so much!! The comparative anthropology crash courses are fun to make (though slightly nerve wracking in case I get something wrong >_>)
this is the first new video of yours since ive found your channel! your stuff always makes me think about the topics you cover in new ways & look forward to watching each video
i love this channel
nice bite sized videos on emergent culture
7:45 the mention of time coming right after the Japanese anecdote reminds of hearing that Italian cafes will simply refuse to serve you breakfast foods at lunch time & vice versa
All-day breakfast menus are very weird to me as a Frenchman.
I'm Italian and I've heard of several anecdotes in which foreigner ordered particular food combinations that Italians consider "wrong", and the restaurant personnel objected.
One thing I find funny is that where Italian and Japanese cultures have similar traits, other Westerners describe the situation differently. if the Japanese do something they're a fascinating exotic culture that westerners can't possibly understand. If Italian do the same thing we're just wacky.
heck yeah another Creating Cuisine video!!! today is a good day
Excellent video as always.
As a sweed I think not feeding kids is mostly because you do not know how their parents want to feed them, i.e allergies, intolerances, religions, vegetarianism or yeah the unplanned extra meal you have to whip out of thin air and the meal that potentially will have to be thrown out in the kids family. Though leaving the kid alone while you eat feels also off-putting, I would honestly move dinner until the kid leaves tbh I think most Swedish kids leave before dinner time to avoid this awkward situation.
Interesting also that organ meat was considered lower class when patê, foie grass, and other offal are seen as gourmet today. Idk I've always seen organ meat as fancy, especially with how rare they are at the supermarket, something you can only get if you go to a butchery. Nutrient-rich animal produce that most "commoners" are too unrefined to appreciate. Or Hannibals high-class presentation of organ meat dishes just influenced my perception.
Your videos are always so entertaining and inspiring tysm
v well made video really nice
I loved this one, etiquete is so confusing lol
I hadn't considered this for my fictional culture, but after this I'm pretty sure they'd be more on the messy eater side, don't you worry about the mess, you'll be helping clean it up anyway!
Great video, thanks for sharing! I always enjoy when you upload.
So question how would Elush eat in a home? I guess that’s a topic of another video.
Great Video
I still can’t believe the Swedish thing bc kids will eat at the friend’s house then go home and eat again. And also my mom is like “never say no to free food ever it’s free food”
Seems like using forks is officially gay.
God etiquette is stressful.
!!! new video!
To this day, I forget which hand is for forks and which is for knives. I had it drilled into me as a kid that the way I was doing it was wrong. Now as an adult I hold them however feels right to me, but in the back of my mind there's always the nagging feeling that I'm holding them incorrectly
dominant hand is for the knife! At least if you're british (this usually means in the right hand for "left handers are the devil" reasons but now its just depends on if you're right or left handed)
The rule of thumb I heard is that the most dangerous implement you're using goes in your dominant hand.
If it's just a fork you use your dominant hand for the fork, if you're also cutting stuff or moving it with a knife the knife goes in the dominant hand and the fork in the non-dominant one.
@@teaartist6455I like that a lot :) I do hold my cutlery this way already, but now if I ever need to teach anyone else I will pass this rule along (thank you)
yipeeeee, so excited!!!
🗿👍
I just realized how informal Americans are when it comes to these things
I thought this would be related to the Eulush but no its just about food
I am a swede, but ive never experienced that?
Gay and blasphemous that's my mood ro8 now ❤😂
Not first
"Forks are gay, and blasphemous"
Eleventeenth
i wonder, is eleventeenth the same as twenty first?