The Contrarians Panel: Dark Horse Album - Van Halen - A Different Kind of Truth (2012)
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- čas přidán 27. 07. 2023
- Van Halen - A Different Kind of Truth (2012) is the topic of this episode of Dark Horse Albums!
The Contrarians is a show where one of us jumps in the hot seat picks a dark horse album from a band as that band's best album. The guest host will argue against them with facts, stats and all around truth, subjective and objective!
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One of the most underrated albums ever....three songs on the album appear in my all-time VH Top 20 songs lists 🤘
I really enjoyed "A Different Kind of Truth" for the most part. My biggest complaint is the absence of Michael Anthony's background vocals. But David Lee Roth really does sound pretty good on here, and Wolfgang plays some great bass. I don't hate "Tattoo" either (I like Roth's wordplay on that song), but I agree that it wasn't the best opening track or kick off single. Overall, this album rocks really hard, and the songs are good fun. If "A Different Kind of Truth" had to be the final Van Halen album, I think they went out swinging.
Great analysis from all you guys. Some of the lyrics were memorable especially Dave on Blood & Fire when he opines "Told ya' I was comin' back...say you miss me...say it like you mean it." The first time I heard that I literally laughed out loud. I bought ADKOT the week it came out and loved it ever since because, as you say...it's what every diehard Van Halen fan needed to hear. It had been a massively long interval since 1984 and yes, I loved the Sammy era too - but the DLR days were my favorite with the attitude and swagger. And Eddie's guitar work was most wicked on tracks like Unchained, Mean Streets...Ain't Talkin' Bout Love. I saw Van Halen in 1984 at Maple Leaf Gardens and it was the best concert out of hundreds I've been to over the years. ADKOT was their final good-bye swan song (so to speak). Bitter sweet. RIP Eddie. We lost the greatest drummer and greatest guitarist of all-time in the same year.
A Different Kind Of Truth is a TOP TIER Van Halen album for me. I prefer Roth to Hagar, not to take anything away from Sammy. But DLR brought that swagger and sense of humor that is the hallmark of classic Van Halen and all those qualities are here in spades on this album!
Michael Anthony’s higher pitched background vocals are missing, but Wolfie is more than adequate on bass.
Yes, Roth has lost a little in the vocal dept. but still comes through in flying colors!
Although the songs are culled from their earlier years, they are top shelf. I love every track on this album and it was a fine swan song for the band. I give this album a 9.75 or even a 10 and place it just behind their debut which is a 10!
holy crap DC! haha (Grant)
It's better than 1984. I said what I said.
I love this album! It has a lot of great songs and Eddie is just laying down one bad ass riff and solo after another. Is it Van Halen one? Of course not but it's damn good! 🎸🎸🎸
8.75 out of 10 for me.
Sounds like Bicuspid Aortic Valve replacement surgery. My dad just went through it, which was rough for him. Glad to see you recovered well pal!
This was an excellent discussion in which I enjoyed hearing everyone's opinions, culminating in the positive rating. Like many, I was excited when this album came out, Considering the band had been dormant for so long, it far exceeded my expectations. I wouldn't, or it shouldn't, be considered a "Dark Horse" album in my opinion, since I'd place it right up there with the classic first six albums. Of course "classic" may be based on age, period, and related impact if you like, but in terms of song quality and performance, it belongs. I never bothered about the static to do with "reworked old songs" and not being a "new" VH album. Perhaps that affected public opinion and hurt sales at the time--I don't recall. True, Dave's all over the place, understandably so considering his age, trying to reach heights no longer attainable. I didn't care for first single, "Tattoo," which was too simple and safe, and instead would have opted for something more dynamic that screamed "We're back!" But overall, as far as comeback albums from classic bands go, this one stands among the best. Could you imagine if their career came to a close with VH III? At least now it's full circle the way it should be.
I would give this album a B. I do like it but I miss Michael Anthony and his vocal contiribution.
I’m pro pro pro Diamond 💎 DAVE/ to me he had the “ IT” factor / imo a top notch phenomenal frontman. Obviously, we all know DLR no longer can 🎤 sing, however after a huge VH gap putting out a new album , I liked this album . Is it a stone cold 🥶 classic to me / definitely NO, but I’ll give it a 7.75 out of 1️⃣0️⃣. Thx gang. Nice show/ episode 👍💯
Thank for the kind words Gary! (Grant)
This album seems to be way underrated but in my opinion it is absolutely awesome and perfect in every way. High octane from beginning to end. And hearing DLR again is a great sigh of “finally, a return to the true VH sound. I do miss MA but it is undeniable that WVH totally destroyed - especially the song Chinatown. Can’t help but get emotional knowing this was the last one. To this day I struggle to accept that Eddie is gone. However, seeing Wolf rising is wonderful, he is undoubtedly an instrumental genius and he is also a surprisingly great singer. Now with the release of Mammoth II we can hear Wolf’s confidence surging, and his live performances are extraordinary. He’s definitely his father’s son. And this album here gave us a sneak preview of VHs second generation in formation along with the fierce and astounding guitar work Eddie always delivered.
Why does Hagar claim his era had more success when the fact is just the sales of the debut and 1984 albums combined,not including the others with Roth far surpass the 4 with Hagar.
Because Hagar always lies in an effort to make himself look good. Hagar lied about him and EVH making amends before EVH passed away. That never happened. Alex still refuses to speak to him.
@@IvanLendl87 that's a crazy lie about the album sales,the Roth albums sold FAR more...Sammy seems unaware that people obviously know that lol
@@ericrobertson2581 There are a lot of gullible people out there who just accept what Hagar says. But like you said VH1 & 1984 each sold 10 million. The entire Van Hagar discography sold 16 million. This is as per the RIAA.
@@IvanLendl87 Yea I looked it up and the worldwide sales for the Roth albums were almost twice the total for the Hagar albums.
This has always been a solid album for me 8/10. It's not a classic VH album but has a classic vibe and feel. The mix and mastering are an issue though. Clearly it was done like this for people who downloaded and listened to music on crap speakers. I think you've got this spot on. Their won't be another VH album so this does just fine for me.
I give it a 9/10 with the production, good catch
Beats Workin came from an early demo called Put out the Lights.
I think the average score of 8.6 is about right, in absolute terms. In relative terns, consider this: (a) years of fans grousing that Van Hagar doesn't match Van Halen (b) the VH 3 disaster (c) no album from 1998 to 2012 (d) band members in their mid-50s in 2012. With all that, what more do you want from "A Different Kind of Truth" ? It is, against that backdrop, an absolute miracle. If you are disappointed that it isn't more a bolt of lightning like VH 1 or VH 2, a reality check: the band, the industry, and _we_ have all changed since 1978 - 1981 and there is no going back. Criticisms that "Dave is doing is old schtick" and "these are old riffs" are absurd, because we would complain if DLR tried something new and VH 3 indicates the creative well had run dry. (In academia re: research ideas, creativity wanes near age 40.) I agree that "Tattoo" is not good and a terrible choice for the advance single.
p.s. I think people get better _at the craft_ (e.g. fleshing out ideas) as they age, but the raw creative spark fades. In a way, this album unites the two: the old seed ideas with a mature approach to songwriting.
Lyrics are KILLER ya big goof!!!
I give it a solid 8. I don't care about the lyrics, the fact there are re-worked tunes, or the lack of Anthony. No issues there at all. My gripe would be the production. A tad sludgy, and mastered too hot as well. China Town, She's the Woman, As Is, and Honeybabysweetiedoll are VH classics
Cheers 🍺 , agreed 💯
5th best Van Halen album . I love every track
It's an excellent album, unfortunately released after the downloading era had commenced.. had it been the proper follow-up to 1984 it would have done pretty well I think.
Also 400,000 copies copies in 2012 is equivalent to 800000 in 2002, and 1.6 million in 1992.
I would surmise that had just come out in 1986 were looking at probably a 3 to 5 million-seller.
that's a excellent point! Thanks for pointing that out! (Grant)
@@thecontrarians2438 no prob 😁
Very good album. If Roth’s vocals were a bit better (he was really starting to dip at that point), the album would have been that much stronger. Wolf’s bass playing is more than adequate and his background vocals are pretty strong and remind me of Michael Anthony’s. The production I think is an issue- the CD is very loud and Eddie’s guitar seems to over power throughout.
Great album. Every album with Roth is amazing IMO.
My order of favorites-
1. Van Halen
2. Women & Children First
3. Fair Warning
4. Diver Down
5. Van Halen II
6. 1984
7. A Different Kind Of Truth
Everything with Hagar I don't like
I give it a solid 9. I would probably rank it over 1984 and maybe even Diver Down.
wow! nice! (Grant)
Definitely better than Diver Down. Diver Down has no redeeming qualities. 5 covers and a handful of very low tier VH tunes. 1984 was an impressive bounce back at that time.
Over 1984?! 😱
I’m with you. It’s better than DD and 1984. It belongs in the conversation with WACF and FW.
I absolutely love this album and also give it a 10/10. Eddie rips all throughout the album and I still listen to it regularly along with the original 6 pack. I really think the lack of love for this album comes down to nostalgia. If this came out after 1984, it would be talked about to this day. If it had Michael Anthony, it would be discussed more. But, if it wasn’t for Wolf, we wouldn’t have it at all! Enjoy this and it’s a classic VH for me. Love this one.
Also, hats off to Parish for throwing a little love Black Stone Cherry’s way. What an excellent band that gets way too little recognition!
Love the Parish! Welcome aboard! (Grant)
@@thecontrarians2438thanks. Really enjoyed it.
I enjoy the album overall, but really miss Michael Anthony's vocals. To me, that is a vital part of the Van Halen sound. His presence would have pushed this one into top tier.
I really like this album and was hoping their was going to be a follow up but was not meant to be, giving this a 8.5 !
This is a great, great album, like you said old Van Halen infused with modern Van Halen they did a great job re working the old songs and I'm so glad that they did, that's what I wanted with some new songs included. I listen to it for 2 years straight practically everyday and still listen to the album to this day as it's in my rotation as well as all the original Van Halen six pack! Including Eddies experimental album VHIII.
I’ll go with Martin’s assessment. Yes, I went nuts when this came out! I bought the CD immediately and also saw them play at the Staples Center in June 2012. My only issue is that we all had such high expectations. For years and years, Ed was always talking about all this new material he had at 5150 but most of this album was recycled, unreleased Van Halen tracks. That being said, the musicianship is pristine, and I’ll forever be thankful that they finally got back together with Dave and put out a new album. 7.5 for me as well.
I love this album. 9/10 for me.
Excellent Pete! (Grant)
Rare example of the initial single being the worst song on the album..I'd have to research but the only others I can think of were the awful Priest cover of Johnny B Goode and Never Enough from the 87 Patty Smyth album,who coincidentally was asked to join VH in 85.
This is an amazing album all the way through, even by lofty VH standards!! 🤟🤟
Thanks for this one guys, I will never forget grinning from ear to ear upon the first listen- drove out to my beloved independent record shop (the Rock Box in Camberley UK) on the morning of it's release, felt like I had been waiting for this album since I was a child and then holy shitballs! It delivered, a shockinglys brilliant snd inspiring album, I agree with you all on pretty much every opinion here- only question is... WHERE THE FUCK IS THIS ALBUM NOW? Streaming wise it's become criminally elusive to say the least... which pushes hard copy prices up to silly money.
Oddly enough Blood&Fire was originally a piece of music Eddie did called Ripley. It was named after Steve Ripley who was the designer(?) of the guitar that Eddie used on the song. And supposedly it was recorded in 1984.
I believe it's Honeybabysweetiedoll
I give the album 8/10 I feel Michael Anthony is missed. And Tattoo should not have been the lead off track.
Blood and Fire is also in The Wild Life.
Stay Frosty was awesome this album bonded me and my lil brother he loves death and black metal where I like some thrash but mostly out classic rock and outlaw country ... But we loved this album and all Roth era albums so love this record
I love this album!! Surprised the heck out of me 9/10
Great reviews guys! I always liked Tattoo! Great mid-tempo, poppier song on the album.
For being their last Album the only clunker is Tattoo
I like Tattoo.
I really like this album...I think it could have been trimmed down a bit....there are a few songs that I just dont think are strong at all....but the playing and production on it are absolutely brilliant...and not to get into a pisisng match over Roth or Hagar...I think this album is easily the strongest thing they released since 5150 (which is the only Hagar album I truly enjoyed...but it doesnt FEEL like a VH album...it was a strong album but it had none of the swing and none of the recklessness that you got from the early Roth albums). ADKOT felt new and exciting but like Dave or not....he ads a certain magic to the songs that (despite being a much more technically competent vocalist) Sammy just couldnt pull off. After 5150 VH just felt like continuallly diminishing returns on each album....until ADKOT came out. Its not a perfect album....its certainty no Fair Warning...but as a swan song for the band....I think they went out on a very high note. Would have been tragic if VHs last album wouldve been Balance or VHIII. Just my personal opinion. I dig ADKOT always have.
The lyrics were AMAZING!!!
I will be honest I wasn't thrilled with Tattoo as the advance single. but still bought the CD when it came out and liked it but thought i could have been better.
and it's missing an integral part of any VH record... a solo guitar piece! so i burned a copy of the album with what ! felt should have been the running order
and sprinkled the solo guitar bits and threw in Me Wise Magic and Can't Get This Stuff No More to keep me interested and I fell in love with the new songs!
I haven't played the original track list ever again! lol but i still rate the album 8/10
I love this album. It's quality stufff all the way through.
a good album that was not accurately represented by first single Tattoo (terrible choice in my opinion as the first single )
I give it a 9 out of 10. I’m not a big fan of TATTOO. It’s okay, but I love the rest of the album. If this came out in 1986 with Mike, and a 1986 DLR, it would be an untouchable album. I truly believe it. I like it more than 1984, and DD. This album reminds me of the WACF, FW era. It’s right up there with the first four.
Tim brought up Boston. What if you did a dark horse of Boston's Third Stage? Clock Work Angels by Rush is another good one Tim brought up as well.
Love that album
AWESOME ALBUM!
Diver Down is a TEN ya big goof with first 6 goofballs!!
I LOVE the record and thought Dave sounded awesome. And of course, so did Eddie. I still listen to it fairly often. It sounds like real Van Halen to me. My first concert was Van Halen at the San Diego Sports Arena in July 1978. This record fits right in with the classic six pack. I love all of the DLR era Van Halen records and I also love the solo DLR stuff. I am not much of a Van Hagar fan. DLR is one of the best hard rock/metal lyricists ever. They are brilliant at times. Hagar lyrics are just silly. Van Halen sounded castrated with Hagar. Van Halen got their balls back with DLR and A Different Kind of Truth.
I listened to VH3 the other day. It wasn't good. This one is WAY better.
tru dat (Grant)
THIE IS THEIR BEST ALBUM BAR NONE. JUST WISH DIAMOND DAVE WOULD HAVE DONE THE HIGH PITCH VIBRADDO SCREAMS ALONG WITH SOME " OUH AND OOOOING" AND WOULD HAVE SENT IT OVER THE CLIFF.
I don't think he could do them anymore (Grant)
Ace Frehley rips off Robby Krieger in the She solo
STELLAR!! MASTERPIECE!!!!
FREAKEN GREAT !!!!!!!
TEN!!!!!
Great album. 6.5 maybe 7 out of ten
Well to me it's far better than Diver Down,that's for sure...I also like VH3 more than Carnal,I just couldn't ever get into that one.
Someone else who likes VH3?! Wow
Heaviest VH slbum ever.
SPAMMY IS A GOOFBALL!!!!
Was this the album with the many old (recycled) song ideas, because Eddie couldn't write totally new songs, because of his alcoholism? It wasn't bad though...
Everybody seems to love China Town and Bullethead except for myself. Not a fan of those two at all.
I liked it when it first came out but now I don’t really like it and never listen to it. Really don’t listen to any vh after 5150.
Tattoo and Stay Frosty were excellent. The rest was slop.
I really enjoy ADKOT, but it is missing Michael Anthony! WVH is a great musician, but he is not MA.
7.5?! BOOOO!!!!! Get that goofball out of here kids!!!! TEN!!!!!
Martin popoff is just amazing!!
This album just needs one step to be great....tattoo removal lol
4/10
Van Hager sucks. DLR will always be better! I bet I'm the only one out of these guys that has seen or saw the original van Halen from the beginning, 1978 until Sambo, came in. If you never saw the the original band live ,you have no clue how great they were and are! That's all folks!
Different Kind of Truth gets a 4.44/5
1 Van Halen I (4.81)
2 1984 (4.66)
3 For Unlawful, Carnal Knowledge (4.59)
4 Fair Warning (4.47)
5 Different Kind of Truth (4.44)
Excellent ranking! (Grant)
@@thecontrarians2438 Thanks
Where's VH II?
@@uncleremus64 #6&7 are tied OU812 & Women & Children at 4.27
VH II at #8 at a 4.1
People that do this kind of stuff should name themselves, mosquitoes ticks or maybe tapeworms… because what they do is try their best to make a buck, off of a guy that is dead that cannot defend himself, and they comment on his work that they had no pardon we’re not talented enough to do and Only listen to in their mom’s basement because they couldn’t get a normal job… I know it… and now you know it… every time you see these videos critiquing a dead guys music from a dude that grew up in his mom‘s basement and is failed construction worker couldn’t make the cut that think of himself as an intellectual. This is what you get…. I would never pay for it.
It’s a fine record, but like so many modern day recordings, it doesn’t have a cohesive sound. Sounds like it was a cut and paste job. I scarcely doubt that any two performers were in the recording room at the same time. It’s well known that the album is mostly made from abandoned songs and ideas, so it’s obviously going to have a patchwork effect.
In short, it’s an album that was made to prove that Van Halen was a band again. (But really wasn’t.)
Tried to get into this ALBUM for the last week. All Van Halen week at work on CD......CAN'T STAND THIS ALBUM.......MISSING Micheal Anthony's Harmonies with Eddie....Micheal Anthony was the key . Love everything else Sammy and Dave.........This Sucks.
I agree 100% (Grant)
I'm loathe to even dip my toe into this one. I've paused it immediately to preface my comments on this video with a before and after impression.
Before:
I was looking forward to this release since 1985. I wasn't a big fan of anything DLR did after Eat 'Em and Smile which I enjoyed at the time although I'll admit that I was more into 5150 when the two were competing. To quote Lars, "He left the band"! Dave's schtick had begun to wear on me in 1984. I loved the 1984 when it dropped but, the continuous airplay on Mtv and radio, combined with my friends and I blasting it for months as well, wore out my tolerance for "jokey talking" over cool songs and bratty frontman behavior. Consequently, I also disliked the songs Sammy did with VH that attempted to ape the Hot For Teacher DLR trope. "Inside" comes to mind but, there could have been another example of them doing it that I can't remember. Back to the Different Kind Of
Truth. The lead single, "Tattoo" set the tone for this album and it was a warning shot for anyone who thought we were getting classic DLR era Van Halen. I was mortified by that song and video so much so that, I didn't buy the album. I didn't even listen to it for many years after but, after hearing so many people talk about the fierceness of the music and the return of Edward, I broke down and listened to it online. My worst fears were confirmed. The Van Halen boys had produced a killer album and DLR had shat all over it with example after example of unforgivable ridiculousness. They should have brought Sammy and Mickey back, shifted Wolfie to guitar with his pops and made the most incredible comeback album in the history of Hard Rock. Instead, we got this overly hammy performance of DLR the character lathered thickly on top of a brilliant set of performances by the band. That's my two cents for before the video. I'll redress my comments after I finish the episode. I've got my fingers crossed that no one gives this a 10/10.
Not good at all. Michael Anthonys perfect backing vocals sorely missed. DLR vocals weak. The classic VH is missing. Very forgettable album. 3/10
Lol Mikey sucked. So overrated
Lol Mikey sucked. So overrated
Lol Mikey sucked. So overrated
Lol Mikey sucked. So overrated
Lol Mikey sucked. So overrated
Nepotism on bass, unfortunately
It's not available on Spotify that is they took it off why I don't know but I have the cd and this album kicks ass great album
They took it off quite awhile ago. I do wonder why? (Grant)
@@thecontrarians2438 yeah me too that the one thing about Spotify and other streaming services that I don't like but I think it's hard to get on Cd as well nowadays but great album a great recorded album