Just a curious side note: First Rank Fire, Second Rank fire says it increases the "Attack Characteristic" of rapid fire weapons, not the the "Rapid Fire X" value. So wouldnt that just mean double tap at all ranges, then increase by 1 when close?
Better for long range volleys to just have twice as many shots and then when in half range switch to take aim so the non rapid fire guns get a better chance at going through i.e. pistols, melta, and heavy weapons. Oh god the heavy weapon squads get boosted from 5+ to 3+ when static
I was playing a 1K game yesterday against Necrons, who are on base hard enough to kill, but while playing i’m better understood their troop and weapons stat lines. I have to agree that they were no better than a standard imperial guardsmen. I found it rather stupid that their hot shot lasguns weren’t at least strength 4 with AP -1 to showcase the enhanced weaponry. It’s like they have been neutered a bit.
i've been in love with the kasrkin since I read the Kasrkin book, and it sucks to see them so weak this edition. I guess i'll be running them as scions this edition.
Kasrkin with Scout + the Master Bombardiers stratagem looks ok. An alternative of sorts for the scout sentinel. Still waiting for that medipack, GW. Cadians need some more survivability too. EDIT: YOU CURR YOU CAD THAT'S SOME CLICKBAIT!! XD
if you only want to have a voxcaster ready for bombadiers, scions do it better. they cost only 60 pts for a min unit and they can deepstrike. so not only can they get more vision on enemy units, they can also do actions while at it. with kasrkins, you want to abuse their "warrior elite" rule as much as possible to order them into custodes levels of firepower and harlequin levels of speed. this is also amplified, that you can only get them on maxsize of 10. heck if you want scout units with vox casters, you can use catachans, who cost half the points for the same cover
They still sound pretty useful to me, I already run a castelan and a chimera plus my preorder for kasrkin just got dispatched, I have wanted some since 9th but they where never in stock. Looking forward to trying them out. Great video as always
I think I prefer scions in many situations, but the Kasrkin specifically do well if you take them in transports. I've heard that they get their self-orders even in the vehicle, (I hope that's true!) they have that nice marksman rifle, the meltamine, and they can scout or get juiced up by leaders that ride with them. Scions get their rerolls and deepstrike, but they give up orders or any leader except their command squad when they use deepstrike.
They do not get their self order since embarked units cannot use abilities unless specified (check rules commentary) Scions are pretty much better in every way since they have deepstrike and can easily get full re-rolls, while kasrkin get an ability they can practically never utilize
I'll be grabbing a couple of boxes of the Damned Heavy Infantry from Wargames Atlantic next year. Need to start getting some Guard based armies into the rotation for Vraks games and there's bound to be some heavy infantry option if we get an actual Renegade Guard book in 10th, run them as Kasrkin while the best option for rebels remains the Guard list.
I had a similar idea with my Gamefound pledge. 60 Heavy Infantry to run as Scions with the Blood Pact helmets and masks to make a Blood Pact Death Brigade!
I kind of like the Kasrkin/Torux suicide run. Kasrkin jump out delete something hopefully position well to prevent movement along with Torux move blocking also. Definitely a nice speed bump.
I have been having an idea by getting 2 squads of karskin, 2 chimeras, a tourox and a squad of ogurins to lock down an objective and create a solid front
I only just found out about these changes. I'm so sad to see that all the things that made Stormtroopers/kasrkin (and Scions I guess) have been slowly whittled away to the point that they are just guardsmen+1. I mean, did someone loose the STC to build Hotshot lasguns and just start putting regular ones in the hotshot's furniture. I'd rather have the 6" range debuf to hotshot weapons again if it meant we got to keep the higher AP.
I want to add something about warrior elite: It doesn't give a cap on max orders they can get, only a cap on officers. so only one officer can give them orders, BUT they can get all the orders this officer can get them. this officer also doesn't need to be attached to the unit. so Creed in a different unit with a master vox can give them +2 orders as well, same with a regular officer + master strategist enhancement. you could even go full ham and order them with Lord Solar for a whooping 3 extra orders and a total of 4 orders, if you realy want to. so they can get realy scarry, even without an attached officer witht he right setup. suddenly they sprint up 9" with extra shots, hitting on 2+. use the "inspired command" strat with the same officer on them and you can stack another order as well, if you desire. because RAW on their special rule, this doesn't overwride an old order. and since "reinforcements" resets hunter killers on walkers, it also resets the melta mine from Kasrkins. so you can use this ability multible times per game. the real problem is ofc how orders work: in the command phase means before the movement phase and before they can come on the battlefield from a transport or reserve (like after they died). reserve can be circumvented with the rapid ingress stratagem but now you invest 1 more CP into them (however you can get them back with the vox caster) but nothing to give them orders out of a taurox. this make them loose out a lot of power, when you play them in a transport but if you are willing to invest some CP into the unit, they should deliver a lot of hurt for their points during the whole game.
One of the issues with the Impy Goo, is the Fluff never matches the Crunch, when it comes to supposedly Elite units. Sly Marbo might beat Chuck Norris, but most units in 40K can.
Great Deep Dive Definitely reinforcing my own Happiness at the current State of Kasrkin and hoping that once we get a codex they get a fun nasty boost even from this. Just looking at the comments section, folks watch the video and see what he says about them. They have changed from 9th but they are still pretty damn solid unit check it out.
It seems like every edition Kasrkin/scions get more and more special weapons and less and less special. I guess my two 10 man squads of metal kasrkin with 2 plasma guns are just outright unplayable now. Especially now that I wouldn't even get the benifit of having more points to spend on my army. Since now there are no points costs to wargear. Someone please TRY to tell me that plasma weapons are a rare and special honour when now every single guardsman over the rank of corporal has a plasma pistol.
In 10th edition they are the Kasrkan't. Putting them in a chimera or taurox means no scouts or warrior elite either. Special weapons just aren't enough in 10th especially in a vehicle meta.
The Dedicated transport gets the scout move as well. And also the warrior elite ability does not specify that they need to be on the field of battle to activate. I suppose they get it anyway
@@aleehomedition8165 Yes to the scout move, no to the order. Rulebook says they cannot do anything or be affected in any way whilst embarked unless otherwise stated. It's one of the things I wish they would change on the Chimera, instead of its fairly useless ability of allowing an officer inside to give an order out of it, allow models inside to receive orders instead, would make Kasrkin more tempting to take.
Kasrkin are terrible, guardian defenders are 20 points cheaper and do way more damage. Why is our "super elite" infantry choice not even remotely as good as the eldar citizen militia AND more expensive? Kasrkin should be like 90 points imo, guardian defenders have better guns, more movement and better leadership yet are 20 points cheaper.
The entire army feels meh if you just want to make a normal list and since we can barely win a game at tournaments where people are bringing their best lists I'd say we can't make an absurd list very well either lol
Ugh. I really liked our 9th edition codex. I just haven’t loved guard in 10th. Don’t love my Grey Knights either this edition. Maybe it’s time to start painting all the Orks I have in the back of my closet.
@@nathanlovin I am having a blast with my CSM and of course Eldar are fun to play. But guard are my army, have been for nearly 25 years and this index is just shit start to finish with the only bright spot being 20 man squads which is hary a positive change considering we had 55 man platoons for 5 editions before the current writers forgot what guard are supposed to play like
It does say that, but on the kasrkin card it says in the command phase they can select an order to have, in addition to any other orders issues to them that turn. Orders plural
This only further reinforces my point that Krieg needs a substantial nerf. Having battle line troops be proportionately cheaper while being exponentially better than not only its battle line counterparts but also elite troops is beyond broken. This is why Krieg infantry needs to be 80, and Marshalls need to be 85 until they get a rewrite in the codex.
Yes we should nerf them since they are putting up all those top table results… oh wait They should probably look at lowering the vast majority of guard units that are overcosted first before nerfing units that aren’t even an issue at the moment
@CatharsisChaser "krieg being objectively better than every other troops choice including elites, and being a better version of Necron Warriors for cheaper isn't a problem". No they are broken, full stop. No one is taking any other troops not because the other options are bad, Krieg are better than everyone else, so much so that you are putting yourself at a disadvantage by not taking them. It's like Aeldari not taking Wraithknights. The fact of the matter is they need a severe nerf, and then a full rewrite when the codex is released.
@@Avera9eWh1teShark6 if they were "objectively" better why would every single well placing guard list be running a 50/50 mix of cadians/infantry squads and krieg? also for the sake of internal balance why not just lower the points of the "obviously" worse comparable infantry instead of pointing t3 5+ squads into oblivion? there is no world where current kasrkin are worth 20 points more than their 9th edition identity nobody is seriously running or worried about 20 man marshals blobs either since 4+ strength blast is so prevalent and they are just slightly tankier guardsman at the end of the day... and to add insult to injury they can't even bring 2 medipacks for some reason
@@CatharsisChaser you can't just lower the cost because it would have to be significantly cheaper which then spills the balance problems from the infantry to the rest of the force, creating a cascading issue which will inevitably be met with a broad points spike. there are second and third order effects to broad points reductions to a core unit.
@@Avera9eWh1teShark6 you can absolutely make cadians/infantry 60 and catachans 60-55 and they won't create some slippery slope scenario where guard infantry gets hit with the over corrective nerf bat for a multitude of reasons... this would easily incentivize infantry diversity by opening up valuable edge points in a powerpoint level edition Infantry spam will never be competitive viable for various reasons infantry guard relies heavily on orders which in and of itself is a massive tax for very little benefit since orders don't splash and born soldiers is bad on infantry death korps rarely get to use their +1 to wound ability since if they catch the ire of an enemy unit they usually just get deleted so your main way of dealing with high toughness units isn't reliable whatsoever big blob squads will pretty much never get run since they are the easiest blast fodder in the game despite being more order efficient calling for a 23% and 42% nerf respectively on units in a barely 40% wr faction that already aren't overperforming is just a bit of an overreaction to say the very least
its pretty gay i bought kasrkin at the end of 9th for the kasrkin bomb and now there pointless lol. like mordian said its so hard to justify when 20 kreig are so much more beefy with more damage at same price
Kaskrin were always meh imperial guard were meh for people who wanted a meh looking army that is from current meh times rather than interesting future.
Well if they are meh it means we can all get some boxes now maybe.
They have been out of stock in my area since the initial release. Even the local GW doesn’t have them.
@@grimbyrne195 Well, that's lousy. But, give it time?
I have a large amount of the old metals , but new options I’d like so maybe a box or two but yeah they’ve been out out here as well which sucks.
I was on the email list and the third time I got the email I finally got 2 boxes
finally was able to order me a box so hopefully in a few days I can start fielding them finally and not as proxies 😅
That moving light border is super annoying.
Yup. Terrible idea.
Just a curious side note: First Rank Fire, Second Rank fire says it increases the "Attack Characteristic" of rapid fire weapons, not the the "Rapid Fire X" value. So wouldnt that just mean double tap at all ranges, then increase by 1 when close?
Yes, like so.
Better for long range volleys to just have twice as many shots and then when in half range switch to take aim so the non rapid fire guns get a better chance at going through i.e. pistols, melta, and heavy weapons. Oh god the heavy weapon squads get boosted from 5+ to 3+ when static
FRFSRF is better if you have any rapid-fire special weapon, even at half range.
I was playing a 1K game yesterday against Necrons, who are on base hard enough to kill, but while playing i’m better understood their troop and weapons stat lines. I have to agree that they were no better than a standard imperial guardsmen. I found it rather stupid that their hot shot lasguns weren’t at least strength 4 with AP -1 to showcase the enhanced weaponry. It’s like they have been neutered a bit.
i've been in love with the kasrkin since I read the Kasrkin book, and it sucks to see them so weak this edition. I guess i'll be running them as scions this edition.
Mela mine + grenades can at least take someone by surprise. Popping off up to 12mws to a vehicle or monster
Kasrkin with Scout + the Master Bombardiers stratagem looks ok. An alternative of sorts for the scout sentinel. Still waiting for that medipack, GW. Cadians need some more survivability too.
EDIT: YOU CURR YOU CAD THAT'S SOME CLICKBAIT!! XD
if you only want to have a voxcaster ready for bombadiers, scions do it better. they cost only 60 pts for a min unit and they can deepstrike. so not only can they get more vision on enemy units, they can also do actions while at it. with kasrkins, you want to abuse their "warrior elite" rule as much as possible to order them into custodes levels of firepower and harlequin levels of speed. this is also amplified, that you can only get them on maxsize of 10. heck if you want scout units with vox casters, you can use catachans, who cost half the points for the same cover
Why dont these guys have medipack in the kill teams the have a dedicated medic its even on the shoulder pads
They still sound pretty useful to me, I already run a castelan and a chimera plus my preorder for kasrkin just got dispatched, I have wanted some since 9th but they where never in stock. Looking forward to trying them out. Great video as always
I think I prefer scions in many situations, but the Kasrkin specifically do well if you take them in transports. I've heard that they get their self-orders even in the vehicle, (I hope that's true!) they have that nice marksman rifle, the meltamine, and they can scout or get juiced up by leaders that ride with them. Scions get their rerolls and deepstrike, but they give up orders or any leader except their command squad when they use deepstrike.
They do not get their self order since embarked units cannot use abilities unless specified (check rules commentary)
Scions are pretty much better in every way since they have deepstrike and can easily get full re-rolls, while kasrkin get an ability they can practically never utilize
Think that mine is worth the loss range / extra shots at closer range?
How do they compare to scions and grenadiers ?
I'm still glad I picked up 30 yesterday, it's a pity gw didn't wait until I started painting them.
I'll be grabbing a couple of boxes of the Damned Heavy Infantry from Wargames Atlantic next year. Need to start getting some Guard based armies into the rotation for Vraks games and there's bound to be some heavy infantry option if we get an actual Renegade Guard book in 10th, run them as Kasrkin while the best option for rebels remains the Guard list.
I had a similar idea with my Gamefound pledge. 60 Heavy Infantry to run as Scions with the Blood Pact helmets and masks to make a Blood Pact Death Brigade!
@@sovereign6291td-vice made great blood pact content, too bad nobody could cast his creations into plastic form
I finally was able to order a box too...
I kind of like the Kasrkin/Torux suicide run. Kasrkin jump out delete something hopefully position well to prevent movement along with Torux move blocking also. Definitely a nice speed bump.
I have been having an idea by getting 2 squads of karskin, 2 chimeras, a tourox and a squad of ogurins to lock down an objective and create a solid front
Good maybe now you can buy a box of them. 8 to 10 months in and I still have never seen a box available for sale!
I only just found out about these changes.
I'm so sad to see that all the things that made Stormtroopers/kasrkin (and Scions I guess) have been slowly whittled away to the point that they are just guardsmen+1.
I mean, did someone loose the STC to build Hotshot lasguns and just start putting regular ones in the hotshot's furniture.
I'd rather have the 6" range debuf to hotshot weapons again if it meant we got to keep the higher AP.
I want to add something about warrior elite:
It doesn't give a cap on max orders they can get, only a cap on officers. so only one officer can give them orders, BUT they can get all the orders this officer can get them. this officer also doesn't need to be attached to the unit. so Creed in a different unit with a master vox can give them +2 orders as well, same with a regular officer + master strategist enhancement. you could even go full ham and order them with Lord Solar for a whooping 3 extra orders and a total of 4 orders, if you realy want to. so they can get realy scarry, even without an attached officer witht he right setup. suddenly they sprint up 9" with extra shots, hitting on 2+. use the "inspired command" strat with the same officer on them and you can stack another order as well, if you desire. because RAW on their special rule, this doesn't overwride an old order. and since "reinforcements" resets hunter killers on walkers, it also resets the melta mine from Kasrkins. so you can use this ability multible times per game.
the real problem is ofc how orders work: in the command phase means before the movement phase and before they can come on the battlefield from a transport or reserve (like after they died). reserve can be circumvented with the rapid ingress stratagem but now you invest 1 more CP into them (however you can get them back with the vox caster) but nothing to give them orders out of a taurox. this make them loose out a lot of power, when you play them in a transport but if you are willing to invest some CP into the unit, they should deliver a lot of hurt for their points during the whole game.
If this is true - then YES! The Karskin models have been sold out everywhere for the longest fucking time.
Start printing
I have still constantly blasted down even terminators with them.
One of the issues with the Impy Goo, is the Fluff never matches the Crunch, when it comes to supposedly Elite units.
Sly Marbo might beat Chuck Norris, but most units in 40K can.
That's God damn slander
Great Deep Dive Definitely reinforcing my own Happiness at the current State of Kasrkin and hoping that once we get a codex they get a fun nasty boost even from this. Just looking at the comments section, folks watch the video and see what he says about them. They have changed from 9th but they are still pretty damn solid unit check it out.
Imagine being one of the guys NOT issued a badass weapon. You'd feel like a right sausage.
It seems like every edition Kasrkin/scions get more and more special weapons and less and less special.
I guess my two 10 man squads of metal kasrkin with 2 plasma guns are just outright unplayable now. Especially now that I wouldn't even get the benifit of having more points to spend on my army. Since now there are no points costs to wargear.
Someone please TRY to tell me that plasma weapons are a rare and special honour when now every single guardsman over the rank of corporal has a plasma pistol.
Well, the sisters of battle, even with their faith, are still a army with a 7+ leadership
There should be sniperkin option instead of ratlings. You could do it with old traitor guard and ig veterans.
ya i had just picked up a grip of these right as 10th came out but now i just want kriegers lol
In 10th edition they are the Kasrkan't. Putting them in a chimera or taurox means no scouts or warrior elite either. Special weapons just aren't enough in 10th especially in a vehicle meta.
The Dedicated transport gets the scout move as well. And also the warrior elite ability does not specify that they need to be on the field of battle to activate. I suppose they get it anyway
@@aleehomedition8165 Yes to the scout move, no to the order. Rulebook says they cannot do anything or be affected in any way whilst embarked unless otherwise stated.
It's one of the things I wish they would change on the Chimera, instead of its fairly useless ability of allowing an officer inside to give an order out of it, allow models inside to receive orders instead, would make Kasrkin more tempting to take.
Imperial commander: Sure Kasrkin might be nice, but Kreigers are just so expendable!
Kasrkin are terrible, guardian defenders are 20 points cheaper and do way more damage. Why is our "super elite" infantry choice not even remotely as good as the eldar citizen militia AND more expensive? Kasrkin should be like 90 points imo, guardian defenders have better guns, more movement and better leadership yet are 20 points cheaper.
Go on Morrison, take pure infantry to an event, do it, you know you want to
You really are a Blood Axe Ork in disguise.
The entire army feels meh if you just want to make a normal list and since we can barely win a game at tournaments where people are bringing their best lists I'd say we can't make an absurd list very well either lol
Ugh. I really liked our 9th edition codex. I just haven’t loved guard in 10th. Don’t love my Grey Knights either this edition. Maybe it’s time to start painting all the Orks I have in the back of my closet.
@@nathanlovin I am having a blast with my CSM and of course Eldar are fun to play. But guard are my army, have been for nearly 25 years and this index is just shit start to finish with the only bright spot being 20 man squads which is hary a positive change considering we had 55 man platoons for 5 editions before the current writers forgot what guard are supposed to play like
They have shurly the Rule of Cool. That alone makes them an Option. Otherwise i think your analysis is pretty good.
I highly doubt you can have 3 orders with Creed because Creed's rule says ''that unit can be affected by up to two different orders''.
It does say that, but on the kasrkin card it says in the command phase they can select an order to have, in addition to any other orders issues to them that turn. Orders plural
I’m beginning to think custodes are only good because Henry Cavill plays them and GW is using the publicity 😂
But still; 3 Scout Sentinels are better
Stats reflect that the cadian guard broke as soon as their world wasn’t a paradise anymore.
krieg stands, cadia has fallen
This only further reinforces my point that Krieg needs a substantial nerf. Having battle line troops be proportionately cheaper while being exponentially better than not only its battle line counterparts but also elite troops is beyond broken. This is why Krieg infantry needs to be 80, and Marshalls need to be 85 until they get a rewrite in the codex.
Yes we should nerf them since they are putting up all those top table results… oh wait
They should probably look at lowering the vast majority of guard units that are overcosted first before nerfing units that aren’t even an issue at the moment
@CatharsisChaser "krieg being objectively better than every other troops choice including elites, and being a better version of Necron Warriors for cheaper isn't a problem". No they are broken, full stop. No one is taking any other troops not because the other options are bad, Krieg are better than everyone else, so much so that you are putting yourself at a disadvantage by not taking them. It's like Aeldari not taking Wraithknights. The fact of the matter is they need a severe nerf, and then a full rewrite when the codex is released.
@@Avera9eWh1teShark6 if they were "objectively" better why would every single well placing guard list be running a 50/50 mix of cadians/infantry squads and krieg?
also for the sake of internal balance why not just lower the points of the "obviously" worse comparable infantry instead of pointing t3 5+ squads into oblivion?
there is no world where current kasrkin are worth 20 points more than their 9th edition identity
nobody is seriously running or worried about 20 man marshals blobs either since 4+ strength blast is so prevalent and they are just slightly tankier guardsman at the end of the day... and to add insult to injury they can't even bring 2 medipacks for some reason
@@CatharsisChaser you can't just lower the cost because it would have to be significantly cheaper which then spills the balance problems from the infantry to the rest of the force, creating a cascading issue which will inevitably be met with a broad points spike. there are second and third order effects to broad points reductions to a core unit.
@@Avera9eWh1teShark6 you can absolutely make cadians/infantry 60 and catachans 60-55 and they won't create some slippery slope scenario where guard infantry gets hit with the over corrective nerf bat for a multitude of reasons... this would easily incentivize infantry diversity by opening up valuable edge points in a powerpoint level edition
Infantry spam will never be competitive viable for various reasons
infantry guard relies heavily on orders which in and of itself is a massive tax for very little benefit since orders don't splash and born soldiers is bad on infantry
death korps rarely get to use their +1 to wound ability since if they catch the ire of an enemy unit they usually just get deleted so your main way of dealing with high toughness units isn't reliable whatsoever
big blob squads will pretty much never get run since they are the easiest blast fodder in the game despite being more order efficient
calling for a 23% and 42% nerf respectively on units in a barely 40% wr faction that already aren't overperforming is just a bit of an overreaction to say the very least
its pretty gay i bought kasrkin at the end of 9th for the kasrkin bomb and now there pointless lol. like mordian said its so hard to justify when 20 kreig are so much more beefy with more damage at same price
Kaskrin were always meh imperial guard were meh for people who wanted a meh looking army that is from current meh times rather than interesting future.