Stan isn't picking sides with this song. He's clearly stating that atrocities were committed on both sides. Bombing civilian targets is never very kosher, regardless of the cause. It became a grudge that neither side would let go of. The song is not about supporting the UDL or the IRA in Ireland, it's a song about NOT supporting either side now that you've emigrated to Canada. This is such a poignant statment!
Stan Rogers was a true saint, and his love of history, and passion for his homeland--both during his life and of his ancestors--shines like a bright beacon through the fogs and gales of time. Smooth sailing Stan. The Great Ship Earth doesn't ride the waves as smoothly with you gone from her crew...
I had a girlfriend who left me pretty broken and bruised emotionally. However I can never entirely regret her... she introduced me to Stan Rogers and Emmylou Harris. My feelings soften when I hear this music.
Back in the day, a man from Ireland came as a teacher to my home town (don't know if from Northern Ireland or Ireland). At a greeting party for new teachers, my mother asked the teacher's wife what she thought of her new country. Her response was memorable - and I quote from memory - "..the Principal is Catholic, the Vice-Principal is Protestant, and no-one cares". Was rather surprised when head this from Mum, as there had never been ever sectarian bias in pushing my generation through to graduating high school and then getting the requisite training for a fulfilling career.
"And no-one cares.: should be the way of it. Yet the Irish in the 19th century brought their violent "troubles" to Canada (mainly what's now Ontario) in a big way, and it seems many new immigrant waves do the same, until their children set down roots and realize that the conflicts of whatever the old country were have nothing to do with them. This song is a favorite - I think Stan's only political one, but it still resonates.
Stan wrote this song as a criticism of Irish Canadians and Americans who were fundraising for the IRA at the time. "All rights and all wrongs have long since blown away, For causes are ashes where children lie slain. Yet the damned U.D.L. and the cruel I.R.A. Will tomorrow go murdering again. But no penny of mine will I add to the fray."
This song has always resonated with me because it reminds me that my grandmother's family (on my father's side) left Portadown in Northern Ireland for Canada in the early 1900s just to get away from the fighting. I never learned whether my grandmother's family were Protestant or Catholic, and frankly, it never mattered to me what religion they practiced.
ExpeditionSailor20 in the early 1900's? What fighting was happening in the early 1900's? The 1916 rebellion didnt reach the North ...your family are probably prods if there porterdown.
@@paddymac5161 the Anglo-Irish war/Irish war of independence did reach the north especially in Belfast where in many ways the war became one of comparative murder between Ulster Volunteers and IRA
I remember first hearing this song thinking another Irish-American talking about something he half heard about or half knowing the story. He's a man who changed my whole outlook on myself and the people around me. I felt wrong for assuming against him. "For causes are ashes when children lie slain". Peace all God bless him.
At first listen this song may seem dated; but in light of current events it has a new relevance. When I saw pictures of dead children from Syria Stan's words "Causes are ashes where children lie slain..." Came home to me. He was so right!
This truly is a moving, brilliantly written, thought provoking and beautifully sung piece of folk music, but the line that gets me right in the feels is "I've given my whole heart to the place I was born, and forgiven the whole House of Orange" because it really speaks to me of the amazing way that the natural beauty of Canada and our people's love of peace can seep right into the depths of your soul. Stan was a true gem.
Not only Canada, my brother... it is the same for us here in USA... history remembered and genealogy respected/loved, but facing a whole different set of circumstances and perspectives.
The song condemns both sides of the conflict. My Irish Catholic grandfather had no time for the IRA. He said religion was only being used as an excuse to commit violence. Irish anywhere should have told the IRA and UDL to f-off, its not our war your fighting.
This song still brings tears to my eyes, even as conflicted as my own feelings are.. Can't help but think that everyone might be better off if NI was re-united with Eire.. once and for all. A big step for a Protestant-descended Irish-American, I am told.
I don’t know why this song resonates with me so much, maybe it’s because my family came here to America from Ireland during the first famine as well, or that my fathers side came from England and helped establish this great country of ours and truly have given their all to this country for generations. It’s a damn shame to see the world today celebrate horrific times like this. Let’s do what we can to spread the love and prevent such travesties from occurring again.
“ I’ve given my heart to the place I was born, and forgiven the whole House of Orange”. If your family came to Canada from NI to escape strife and find safety for your children, you will understand. Many lyrics in this song worthy of deep reflection.
@ceb2633 Below are the last 3 lines to the song; For I've given my heart to the place I was born And forgiven the whole House of Orange King Billy and the whole House of Orange." To me Stan is saying that he Canadian and does not care about his ancestry and forgive and forget what has happened in the past. Some can it easier if your English or your have no family left in Ireland. It's a bit different if you do still have relatives living in Ireland
To me he is saying that his ancestors may have come from elsewhere, but he is Canadian and that some of his ancestors helped build this country. Its drawing a line in the sand.
You and I both saw it about the same time, and I did the same thing.Good things came from it though. The track lighting on the floors, passenger training, exit signs placed in the aisles, so that you can see them better, more fire extinguishers, more effective chemicals, and better staff training. His wife is a very nice lady, who answers the orders on the Fogartys Cove/Cole Harbour Music website.
"All rights and all wrongs have long since blown away/for causes are ashes where children lie slain". If only we "adults" around the world could learn from these few words. And to some of the commenters below who seem to want to score points about who was right or wrong in the Catholic/Protestant conflicts and England's role in it - you are missing the point of the song: come to Canada and leave that bullshit behind. Some Irish immigrants in the 19th century tried to keep the fires burning here (especially the Orange Order and later the Fenians) but the vast majority simply wanted a better future for their families, hard as that was when any Irish immigrant was considered as less than fully human. It's much like the bombing of an Air India flight from Canada near Ireland by Sikh terrorists (or freedom fighters if you believe in that nonsense). Just how many generations of immigrants from around the world are we expected to fight out their squabbles on our soil? I say welcome to any who want to come here. Come to Canada, but leave your grudges and feuds in the old country, please. "All rights and all wrongs have long since blown away/for causes are ashes where children lie slain". Think Stan got it right on this one.
You shouldnt have to leave the country you were born in to have a chance at a decent life. People who say "WhY nOT JusT lEave" are the ones who are missing the point. Also dont leave your homland behind stay proud of where you came from.
I never considered Tiny Fish for Japan as being political. It was about how the fishing industry was being ruined by pollution. But this is a topic where honest people can easily disagree.
And let us not forget Hannibel crossing the Alps and the fall of the House of Troy; And I beg to differ, I believe Xerxes was from Mississippi. And let us not forget, the Boxer rebellion.
Looks a bit like a thinner Burl Ives (with a wonderful voice...Wow!). Love the arpeggio guitar...always one of my favorite styles of finger-picking. Thanks very much for a wondeful video, Claudia. Warm feelings, John
A powerful voice and a powerful message. Poor old Ireland. Burdened by centuries of suffering that has permeated the very soil. And now their fellow Irish have locked the country down and they are subjugated again. All for the brown envelopes and back handers that only benefit those that are at the top of the pecking order. I can't listen to this song without misting up for the sad truth it reveals.
i think that this song in on my top 5 Stan Rogers songs. Thanks for the post, reminds me of back home....in ontario now but from saint john...and i left for work, like the idiot..lol thanks again Daren
@BlameRepublicans You missed the point entirely. The point of the song is that it is time to lay aside the past and move into a peaceful future. Whether or not he is correct is moot - the song is still beautiful. But at least listen to the lyrics...
@Mac3622 I agree. Both the UDI and the current incarnations of the IRA (no friend of the Church! ) are more akin to the Mafia than to a political movement. The Church as a faction in Ireland is more or less committed to the status quo...
Not only is America responsible for the IRA, we also were the cause of the French Reign of Terror, The War or the Roses, The Spanish Inquisition, The Wexford Massacre, Henry V killing the prisoners at Agincourt, The invasion of Greece by Xerxes (not a lot of people realize Xerxes was from Texas), and the Crusades (all of them). I love listening to you Euros go on about America. It just makes me feel intelligent. Hell, listening to you would make a garden slug feel intelligent.
Yeah, I don't think Stan was anti *that* war so much as anti war in general, using this as a backdrop. But it was also about how he didn't want his children to be raised in a world of hatred and war.
Many years ago, my parents were hosts to the new teachers and their spouses at my father's school. My mother asked one woman (teacher or spouse, I don't know) what she thought of her new home. The woman's response shocked my mother: "The principal's a Catholic; the VIce-Principal's a Protestant; and nooone cares." That was - and I hope still is - small town Canadal
Cornbread, I am still laughing at your message. Thanks for the great reply. The song is still amazing and I join you in having a heritage of one half the family ancestors fled England because of religion and settled here in Conn. in 1650 where they seemed to have annoyed their fellow settlers, so they moved west...much later. Best to you, C
Maybe one could blame the Irish mind for its lack of room for forgiveness? Or, perhaps one could blame the firey stories handed generation to generation about cruelty, injustice, murder, and revenge, of tales of darkness where Green suffered at the hand of Orange? One would think all of this boiling hatred would keep itself mancled in Ireland, and not swim its way to Canada? Yet, even today, in hunting camps, young and old still argue and fight as to who is right. Let it go. Let it go.
It's pretty depressing how closely this song fits with Palestine. Especially the "All rights and all wrongs have long since blown away, for causes are ashes where children lie slain". I just hope this conflict ends in the best way for all parties. Peace and Love to the world!.
It's the Irish. My own family holds such grudges. There's a gas station in my home town that "if you break down in front of" I must push my truck past. It's how I know I'm truly descended of Ireland (house of orange). Yet I've never seen it's green shores nor do I wish to return except on holiday. They never would have left it were that great. I'm both proud and discerning of my heritage.
Understand that the Battle of the Boyne was fought in 1690 and was a fight for the British throne between Protestant King "Billy" and the Catholic King James. William of Orange was victorious ...maintaining the Protestant rule in Ireland. But, yes sadly, this battle is ongoing to this day.....
people forget that in in canada religon cuased huge issues right up to thr 80s between catholics and protestants in canada,my parents were married in 1966 in saint john nb. Moms side of the family was scotch portestant, dads lebanese catholic (maronites), NOne of their families attended the wedding only their friends.Grampy on moms side was the president of the nd Orange Lodge Took years for the sides to learn to coexist,
Wow!! Those who were so upset by something as heart-felt and true-to-the-core as this touching song were NOT "liberals" or "progressive" in any true sense of the word. They were reactionary posers who liked to think of themselves as modern day Bohemians... sigh.
@Razhumykin Truth to tell, I don't really see "The Idiot" as either pro-worker or pro-boss. I think it's more a statement about self-reliance in us all as opposed to depending on someone else to take care of us. Mr. Rogers always seemed (to me) to pretty much wear his feelings on his sleeve in much of his music and self-reliance, pride, and dignity were often major themes in his songs. I feel "The Idiot" was written to extol the virtues of those qualities. It is but my opinion, of course.
"The Idiot" is about having self-respect. If you have an able body, and you can get by right now, get a job and work. The safety net should be the safety net, for people who can't work temporary, who can't work at all, to not fall through the crack. Whether it is generous or not is not the issue. Whether the right people getting welfare is not the issue. It is about someone who would work rather than sitting around to live on the dole.
I loved Stan Rogers. He used to play in our town regularly and I saw him last in concert shortly before he died. I remember the minute my husband told me "I don't know how to say this, except that Stan is dead". So - I would like to imagine he was heroic. He did not die on a third trip back. There is no evidence to support this. This is not how plane evacuations work in a disaster, where untrained passengers who may well have been enjoying substantial amounts of alcohol are allowed to roam free on a burning air plane. To paraphrase, we don't need to idealize him in death beyond what he was in life.
Fogbound Island I believe he helped people off the plane but did/could not go back. Evidence shows that it would have impossible for him or anyone else to when the fire had started, it was most likely a flash fire that would have killed several people in a matter of moments and continued to get bigger.
Re the "orange", some will no doubt have noticed that athletes from The Netherlands always show that colour prominantly on their gear/clothes. Many marriages back then were simply to strengthen a ruling family's position through alliances made by those marriages. Remember the quote"uneasy lies the head that wears the crown". There was a lot of fear as well as power among the royalty in those days. Thanks, Stan, for putting in words one Irishman's anger and disgust at this barbarian behaviour.
Yes, she did. So did Robin Bullock and several other accomplishhed acoustic musicians; I'm not one of the them. I seem on the periphery of great music all the time !
@BoojumFed I thoroughly agree with your assertion that a system of welfare/dole, etc. does not coerce people into the acceptance of it. Sorry if I gave that impression. I do however believe that it fascilitates the idea of "why should I work when I can get [free] money"? I think your last statement is also correct. Mostly I think he was just trying to make the point to never give and keep trying as it will preserve your pride and dignity. Thanks for the courteous reply.
@Rikki0: I'm going to have to say I disagree there. My point is that the capacity for the singer to strive for a life built upon self-reliance despite the option of an 'easy way out' (unemployment compensation) is in itself proof that those programs do NOT coerce people into being lazy. I suspect that the line you pointed out describes how these programs may well provide an avenue for people who ARE lazy to express their laziness (and "rot [their] soul") but that's an entirely seperate claim.
p.s. Tiny Fish from Japan was more about American commercial fisherman risking their lives to catch fish....that they can't eat......to sell to other countries for pennies a pound .....while the foreign countries then resell for HUGE profit.....I know this because my husband was an American commercial fisherman...
I once performed this song acapella at a place in Washington DC called Food For Thought, vegetarian restaurant that catered to the more liberal minded residents of the Dupont Circle area. It got me banned. I guess they couldn't handle the truth.
You are right! Honest people can disagree. I always felt it was about the fishing regulations put in to curtail the fishing industry, pollution and trade benefits, which is sort of political. It is a great song, no matter what, and Stan Rogers was one of a kind! Thanks for the comment. C.
@GarisMom Not really sure why. The management of the restaurant were very militant and I guess they couldn't handle someone pointing out that both sides have more than enough blood on their hands and that autonomy for the Northern Irish cannot be achieved at the end of a gun or by the use of car/satchel bombs.
@BoojumFed I would hazard that the line, "but the government dole will rot your soul", does not support your analysis, BoojumFed. (Sorry, I originally named the wrong person in my first post so I removed it).
This can tell a lot about Canada. To this day, people are still fleeing their homeland to try and find a place to live. I guess that's why Canadians have the stereotype of being nice.
When new immigrants come to North America, it's a chance to start fresh and leave political and religious strife behind them. What Stan's saying is we don't need that kind of crap here in Canada - leave it in the old country.
Pretty sure he died for naming the hugely powerful Orange Lodge - second-most powerful lodge in the world. I grew up with this song, and it's thanks to him and it that I finally connected some life-changing dots - my great-grandfather rode the white stallion in the Orange Day parade, either in Newtonards or Belfast, NI. Stan was taking aim at very current and future atrocities, as much as at the past.
Well I guess that goes to show that I don't know what the hell Im talkin' about. I always assumed the Orange were the northern Irish. (protestants). I know my family was originally from Scotland, then moved to Ireland where they were known as Ulster Irish or some such thing. Then the two families that I get my heritage from moved to western PA. The Lowrys, (because they were tired of having neighbors, the miserable bastards.) and the Shears (who were kicked out of Ireland for being assholes)
@noneyageorge85 If you're implying that the United Kingdom (Britain) is occupying the 6 counties of Northern Ireland and that it's justification for war, I think you should learn a little bit of history. The American Revolutionary War was a completely different scenario.
That has to be the most hilarious conspiracy theory I've ever heard: "Stan Rogers assassinated by the Irish Republican Army, because he wrote a song about the Troubles."
Stan isn't picking sides with this song. He's clearly stating that atrocities were committed on both sides. Bombing civilian targets is never very kosher, regardless of the cause. It became a grudge that neither side would let go of. The song is not about supporting the UDL or the IRA in Ireland, it's a song about NOT supporting either side now that you've emigrated to Canada. This is such a poignant statment!
roytomb whats the UDL ?
Paddy Mac - It’s the Ulster Defense League. He did not make a mistake.
DepOpt1988 - Ulster Defense League. UDL was what he meant, no mistake.
To welcome everyone but ask them to leave their hates and wars behind seems very canadian.
"All causes are ashes where children lie slain" - deep truth there.
Stan Rogers was a true saint, and his love of history, and passion for his homeland--both during his life and of his ancestors--shines like a bright beacon through the fogs and gales of time.
Smooth sailing Stan. The Great Ship Earth doesn't ride the waves as smoothly with you gone from her crew...
35 years I've listened to Stan and he still makes me bawl like a baby.
Mark Daiute me to.
@@jessestewart169 , and me in Germany, not any relationship to Canada, I am still sheding tears for Stan rOGERS
This song does it every time
DITTO, from a third generation Irish guy.
I had a girlfriend who left me pretty broken and bruised emotionally. However I can never entirely regret her... she introduced me to Stan Rogers and Emmylou Harris. My feelings soften when I hear this music.
Sorry to hear that man. Wish you doing great now days. Takecare.
I hope you are healing and doing better.
Back in the day, a man from Ireland came as a teacher to my home town (don't know if from Northern Ireland or Ireland). At a greeting party for new teachers, my mother asked the teacher's wife what she thought of her new country. Her response was memorable - and I quote from memory - "..the Principal is Catholic, the Vice-Principal is Protestant, and no-one cares". Was rather surprised when head this from Mum, as there had never been ever sectarian bias in pushing my generation through to graduating high school and then getting the requisite training for a fulfilling career.
"And no-one cares.: should be the way of it. Yet the Irish in the 19th century brought their violent "troubles" to Canada (mainly what's now Ontario) in a big way, and it seems many new immigrant waves do the same, until their children set down roots and realize that the conflicts of whatever the old country were have nothing to do with them. This song is a favorite - I think Stan's only political one, but it still resonates.
Canada
You're a rare animal indeed!!
Hes irish if hes from the Island of Ireland.
Stan was, simply and truly, the best. A colossal, unique talent who was taken far too soon.
Stan would be proud that his songs can still touch the younger generation 30 years after his passing. Thanks.
Forty 🥰
Stan wrote this song as a criticism of Irish Canadians and Americans who were fundraising for the IRA at the time.
"All rights and all wrongs have long since blown away,
For causes are ashes where children lie slain.
Yet the damned U.D.L. and the cruel I.R.A.
Will tomorrow go murdering again.
But no penny of mine will I add to the fray."
"For I've given my heart to the place I was born..." Amen.
actually Stan mentioned both the IRA and the UDL. Both sides were raising moneys from the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand among others
This song has always resonated with me because it reminds me that my grandmother's family (on my father's side) left Portadown in Northern Ireland for Canada in the early 1900s just to get away from the fighting. I never learned whether my grandmother's family were Protestant or Catholic, and frankly, it never mattered to me what religion they practiced.
ExpeditionSailor20 in the early 1900's? What fighting was happening in the early 1900's? The 1916 rebellion didnt reach the North ...your family are probably prods if there porterdown.
+ExpeditionSailor20
The fighting? Which fight are you referring to at that point?
@@paddymac5161 the Anglo-Irish war/Irish war of independence did reach the north especially in Belfast where in many ways the war became one of comparative murder between Ulster Volunteers and IRA
Who's here from MajorSamm ?
Yes
Same. Such great song brings me tears
Aye
Yep
yep
I remember first hearing this song thinking another Irish-American talking about something he half heard about or half knowing the story. He's a man who changed my whole outlook on myself and the people around me. I felt wrong for assuming against him.
"For causes are ashes when children lie slain". Peace all God bless him.
At first listen this song may seem dated; but in light of current events it has a new relevance. When I saw pictures of dead children from Syria Stan's words "Causes are ashes where children lie slain..." Came home to me. He was so right!
Canada's greatest songwriter and singer.
What a powerful song. Goosebumps.
This truly is a moving, brilliantly written, thought provoking and beautifully sung piece of folk music, but the line that gets me right in the feels is "I've given my whole heart to the place I was born, and forgiven the whole House of Orange" because it really speaks to me of the amazing way that the natural beauty of Canada and our people's love of peace can seep right into the depths of your soul. Stan was a true gem.
Not only Canada, my brother... it is the same for us here in USA... history remembered and genealogy respected/loved, but facing a whole different set of circumstances and perspectives.
Heartbreaking and unforgettable.
The song condemns both sides of the conflict. My Irish Catholic grandfather had no time for the IRA. He said religion was only being used as an excuse to commit violence. Irish anywhere should have told the IRA and UDL to f-off, its not our war your fighting.
This song still brings tears to my eyes, even as conflicted as my own feelings are.. Can't help but think that everyone might be better off if NI was re-united with Eire.. once and for all. A big step for a Protestant-descended Irish-American, I am told.
I don’t know why this song resonates with me so much, maybe it’s because my family came here to America from Ireland during the first famine as well, or that my fathers side came from England and helped establish this great country of ours and truly have given their all to this country for generations. It’s a damn shame to see the world today celebrate horrific times like this. Let’s do what we can to spread the love and prevent such travesties from occurring again.
I cry every time
I'm with you on that.
likewise, friend!
You know you're a bad guy when Stan Rogers writes a song calling you bad
Such a glorious voice and poignant song.
I love Stan Rogers, have more to put up. He passed on way too early but left quite a legacy. Thanks so much for the comment, John, best to you.
“ I’ve given my heart to the place I was born, and forgiven the whole House of Orange”. If your family came to Canada from NI to escape strife and find safety for your children, you will understand. Many lyrics in this song worthy of deep reflection.
I love how Operatic Stan's singing is. So powerful with a sweet, constant vibrato
I cannot even fathom that people would attempt to justify the senseless violence then and now. You can't fix stupid.
To coin a phrase "they haven't went away ya know ".
Amen, kganymede. For some reason, this was the first song of his I ever heard. It knocked my socks off. He was the whole package. I miss him. C.
@ceb2633
Below are the last 3 lines to the song;
For I've given my heart to the place I was born
And forgiven the whole House of Orange
King Billy and the whole House of Orange."
To me Stan is saying that he Canadian and does not care about his ancestry and forgive and forget what has happened in the past. Some can it easier if your English or your have no family left in Ireland. It's a bit different if you do still have relatives living in Ireland
Or worse still being a victim of the troubles. The mental and physical wounds don't have a timetable or date to end except in death I guess.
great song by a great talent... and a damn good point!
Thanks, and I think "The Idiot" is among my top ten Stan Rogers. He was one of a kind, the best kind.
Stan avait raison.
Wise words, but it would be great if the folk in the old countries could forget it as well.
so powerful.
To me he is saying that his ancestors may have come from elsewhere, but he is Canadian and that some of his ancestors helped build this country. Its drawing a line in the sand.
Majorsamm!
What is to forgive, noney? Allegiance to long generations ago? From another country? The song has an important message..
You and I both saw it about the same time, and I did the same thing.Good things came from it though. The track lighting on the floors, passenger training, exit signs placed in the aisles, so that you can see them better, more fire extinguishers, more effective chemicals, and better staff training. His wife is a very nice lady, who answers the orders on the Fogartys Cove/Cole Harbour Music website.
True a lot of changes came because of that fire.
"All rights and all wrongs have long since blown away/for causes are ashes where children lie slain". If only we "adults" around the world could learn from these few words. And to some of the commenters below who seem to want to score points about who was right or wrong in the Catholic/Protestant conflicts and England's role in it - you are missing the point of the song: come to Canada and leave that bullshit behind.
Some Irish immigrants in the 19th century tried to keep the fires burning here (especially the Orange Order and later the Fenians) but the vast majority simply wanted a better future for their families, hard as that was when any Irish immigrant was considered as less than fully human.
It's much like the bombing of an Air India flight from Canada near Ireland by Sikh terrorists (or freedom fighters if you believe in that nonsense). Just how many generations of immigrants from around the world are we expected to fight out their squabbles on our soil? I say welcome to any who want to come here. Come to Canada, but leave your grudges and feuds in the old country, please.
"All rights and all wrongs have long since blown away/for causes are ashes where children lie slain".
Think Stan got it right on this one.
You shouldnt have to leave the country you were born in to have a chance at a decent life. People who say "WhY nOT JusT lEave" are the ones who are missing the point. Also dont leave your homland behind stay proud of where you came from.
I never considered Tiny Fish for Japan as being political. It was about how the fishing industry was being ruined by pollution.
But this is a topic where honest people can easily disagree.
I certainly agree with you. I've been scratching my head since I read it.
C
And let us not forget Hannibel crossing the Alps and the fall of the House of Troy; And I beg to differ, I believe Xerxes was from Mississippi. And let us not forget, the Boxer rebellion.
Looks a bit like a thinner Burl Ives (with a wonderful voice...Wow!). Love the arpeggio guitar...always one of my favorite styles of finger-picking. Thanks very much for a wondeful video, Claudia.
Warm feelings, John
A powerful voice and a powerful message.
Poor old Ireland. Burdened by centuries of suffering that has permeated the very soil.
And now their fellow Irish have locked the country down and they are subjugated again. All for the brown envelopes and back handers that only benefit those that are at the top of the pecking order.
I can't listen to this song without misting up for the sad truth it reveals.
i think that this song in on my top 5 Stan Rogers songs. Thanks for the post, reminds me of back home....in ontario now but from saint john...and i left for work, like the idiot..lol
thanks again
Daren
@BlameRepublicans You missed the point entirely. The point of the song is that it is time to lay aside the past and move into a peaceful future. Whether or not he is correct is moot - the song is still beautiful. But at least listen to the lyrics...
@Mac3622
I agree. Both the UDI and the current incarnations of the IRA (no friend of the Church! ) are more akin to the Mafia than to a political movement. The Church as a faction in Ireland is more or less committed to the status quo...
Not only is America responsible for the IRA, we also were the cause of the French Reign of Terror, The War or the Roses, The Spanish Inquisition, The Wexford Massacre, Henry V killing the prisoners at Agincourt, The invasion of Greece by Xerxes (not a lot of people realize Xerxes was from Texas), and the Crusades (all of them). I love listening to you Euros go on about America. It just makes me feel intelligent. Hell, listening to you would make a garden slug feel intelligent.
if only he were still here writing music.
o, what a loss
Yeah, I don't think Stan was anti *that* war so much as anti war in general, using this as a backdrop. But it was also about how he didn't want his children to be raised in a world of hatred and war.
Many years ago, my parents were hosts to the new teachers and their spouses at my father's school. My mother asked one woman (teacher or spouse, I don't know) what she thought of her new home. The woman's response shocked my mother: "The principal's a Catholic; the VIce-Principal's a Protestant; and nooone cares." That was - and I hope still is - small town Canadal
I just watched air crash investigation which he was on from when he died and im still crying about it !! :'(
Cornbread, I am still laughing at your message. Thanks for the great reply. The song is still amazing and I join you in having a heritage of one half the family ancestors fled England because of religion and settled here in Conn. in 1650 where they seemed to have annoyed their fellow settlers, so they moved west...much later.
Best to you, C
Maybe one could blame the Irish mind for its lack of room for forgiveness? Or, perhaps one could blame the firey stories handed generation to generation about cruelty, injustice, murder, and revenge, of tales of darkness where Green suffered at the hand of Orange? One would think all of this boiling hatred would keep itself mancled in Ireland, and not swim its way to Canada? Yet, even today, in hunting camps, young and old still argue and fight as to who is right. Let it go. Let it go.
It's pretty depressing how closely this song fits with Palestine. Especially the "All rights and all wrongs have long since blown away, for causes are ashes where children lie slain". I just hope this conflict ends in the best way for all parties. Peace and Love to the world!.
Also big thanks to Majorsamm for introducing me to this great man. Cut short too soon.
It's the Irish. My own family holds such grudges. There's a gas station in my home town that "if you break down in front of" I must push my truck past. It's how I know I'm truly descended of Ireland (house of orange). Yet I've never seen it's green shores nor do I wish to return except on holiday. They never would have left it were that great. I'm both proud and discerning of my heritage.
Understand that the Battle of the Boyne was fought in 1690 and was a fight for the British throne between Protestant King "Billy" and the Catholic King James.
William of Orange was victorious ...maintaining the
Protestant rule in Ireland. But, yes sadly, this battle is ongoing to this day.....
people forget that in in canada religon cuased huge issues right up to thr 80s between catholics and protestants in canada,my parents were married in 1966 in saint john nb. Moms side of the family was scotch portestant, dads lebanese catholic (maronites), NOne of their families attended the wedding only their friends.Grampy on moms side was the president of the nd Orange Lodge Took years for the sides to learn to coexist,
All I can do is laugh and say "I love red dwarf"
@thebresker Exactly the message of this song.
Wow!! Those who were so upset by something as heart-felt and true-to-the-core as this touching song were NOT "liberals" or "progressive" in any true sense of the word. They were reactionary posers who liked to think of themselves as modern day Bohemians... sigh.
I don't know anything about the way but I can say that Stan was developing a way better sound in the 80's!
@Razhumykin Truth to tell, I don't really see "The Idiot" as either pro-worker or pro-boss. I think it's more a statement about self-reliance in us all as opposed to depending on someone else to take care of us. Mr. Rogers always seemed (to me) to pretty much wear his feelings on his sleeve in much of his music and self-reliance, pride, and dignity were often major themes in his songs. I feel "The Idiot" was written to extol the virtues of those qualities. It is but my opinion, of course.
"The Idiot" is about having self-respect. If you have an able body, and you can get by right now, get a job and work. The safety net should be the safety net, for people who can't work temporary, who can't work at all, to not fall through the crack. Whether it is generous or not is not the issue. Whether the right people getting welfare is not the issue. It is about someone who would work rather than sitting around to live on the dole.
Jesus bless you
Sesgua -- I have heard that Stan died on his third trip back onto the plane helping people off... not the stuff of assassination.
I loved Stan Rogers. He used to play in our town regularly and I saw him last in concert shortly before he died. I remember the minute my husband told me "I don't know how to say this, except that Stan is dead". So - I would like to imagine he was heroic.
He did not die on a third trip back. There is no evidence to support this. This is not how plane evacuations work in a disaster, where untrained passengers who may well have been enjoying substantial amounts of alcohol are allowed to roam free on a burning air plane.
To paraphrase, we don't need to idealize him in death beyond what he was in life.
Fogbound Island I believe he helped people off the plane but did/could not go back.
Evidence shows that it would have impossible for him or anyone else to when the fire had started, it was most likely a flash fire that would have killed several people in a matter of moments and continued to get bigger.
makes sense.
I'm from Cincinnati and I was here in 1983 when we lost the best of the best.
Thinking of you today.
Re the "orange", some will no doubt have noticed that athletes from The Netherlands always show that colour prominantly on their gear/clothes. Many marriages back then were simply to strengthen a ruling family's position through alliances made by those marriages. Remember the quote"uneasy lies the head that wears the crown". There was a lot of fear as well as power among the royalty in those days. Thanks, Stan, for putting in words one Irishman's anger and disgust at this barbarian behaviour.
The Netherlands national colour is Orange, the football teams wear an orange shirt why is that a revelation, what colour would you have them wear?
Yes, she did. So did Robin Bullock and several other accomplishhed acoustic musicians; I'm not one of the them. I seem on the periphery of great music all the time !
Whats the instrument at 3:02
Northumbrian pipes, I believe. They are also featured in Harris and the Mare.
Tiny Fish for Japan is slightly political, but this one REALLY makes a point.
@BoojumFed I thoroughly agree with your assertion that a system of welfare/dole, etc. does not coerce people into the acceptance of it. Sorry if I gave that impression. I do however believe that it fascilitates the idea of "why should I work when I can get [free] money"? I think your last statement is also correct. Mostly I think he was just trying to make the point to never give and keep trying as it will preserve your pride and dignity. Thanks for the courteous reply.
@ajferet
Can't say I disagree with you on both counts. Very good point.
@BlameRepublicans But that's exactly the opposite point of Stan's song and God bless Stann
Smeghead...Didn't Mary Chapin Carpenter get her start there too? I haven't thought of that place in YEARS!
@Rikki0: I'm going to have to say I disagree there. My point is that the capacity for the singer to strive for a life built upon self-reliance despite the option of an 'easy way out' (unemployment compensation) is in itself proof that those programs do NOT coerce people into being lazy. I suspect that the line you pointed out describes how these programs may well provide an avenue for people who ARE lazy to express their laziness (and "rot [their] soul") but that's an entirely seperate claim.
its 327 years later and I still havent forgiven the Dutch tbh
nah for the Glorious Revolution and subsequent diplomatic repercussions
Shouldn't have tried to destroy our republic and our freedoms then.
Ditto!
Stan cuts through the nonsense.
p.s. Tiny Fish from Japan was more about American commercial fisherman risking their lives to catch fish....that they can't eat......to sell to other countries for pennies a pound .....while the foreign countries then resell for HUGE profit.....I know this because my husband was an American commercial fisherman...
I once performed this song acapella at a place in Washington DC called Food For Thought, vegetarian restaurant that catered to the more liberal minded residents of the Dupont Circle area. It got me banned. I guess they couldn't handle the truth.
@gullreefclub
I do not think he was saying kiss and make up. I think the last lines say what he means.
My family was mixed. Not Scotts Irish but Proddy anyhow and Catholic and NOT from the Northern Ireland.
You are right! Honest people can disagree. I always felt it was about the fishing regulations put in to curtail the fishing industry, pollution and trade benefits, which is sort of political. It is a great song, no matter what, and Stan Rogers was one of a kind! Thanks for the comment. C.
@GarisMom Not really sure why. The management of the restaurant were very militant and I guess they couldn't handle someone pointing out that both sides have more than enough blood on their hands and that autonomy for the Northern Irish cannot be achieved at the end of a gun or by the use of car/satchel bombs.
@smeghead1851
Oh, my word! Now that is interesting. Amazing the ignorance of so many. Keep singing.
C.
Wise comment.
Did Stan have Orange heritage?
I did the same thing !
never. haha. I happen to think that their greatest strength (fortitude) is their greatest weakness (Holding a grudge aka hate)
@BoojumFed I would hazard that the line, "but the government dole will rot your soul", does not support your analysis, BoojumFed. (Sorry, I originally named the wrong person in my first post so I removed it).
@smeghead1851 Got you BANNED? WHY??
I love this song.
This can tell a lot about Canada. To this day, people are still fleeing their homeland to try and find a place to live. I guess that's why Canadians have the stereotype of being nice.
@7808521113
I think all his lyrics make amazing sense. I miss him, too.
C.
@ceb2633 See also "Tiny Fish for Japan"
If I were in that restaurant I would have applauded you. I can't see any reason why any liberal would not like a song that calls an end to a war.
When new immigrants come to North America, it's a chance to start fresh and leave political and religious strife behind them. What Stan's saying is we don't need that kind of crap here in Canada - leave it in the old country.
Pretty sure he died for naming the hugely powerful Orange Lodge - second-most powerful lodge in the world. I grew up with this song, and it's thanks to him and it that I finally connected some life-changing dots - my great-grandfather rode the white stallion in the Orange Day parade, either in Newtonards or Belfast, NI. Stan was taking aim at very current and future atrocities, as much as at the past.
Yes, they killed him for this song.
Well I guess that goes to show that I don't know what the hell Im talkin' about. I always assumed the Orange were the northern Irish. (protestants). I know my family was originally from Scotland, then moved to Ireland where they were known as Ulster Irish or some such thing. Then the two families that I get my heritage from moved to western PA. The Lowrys, (because they were tired of having neighbors, the miserable bastards.) and the Shears (who were kicked out of Ireland for being assholes)
@noneyageorge85
If you're implying that the United Kingdom (Britain) is occupying the 6 counties of Northern Ireland and that it's justification for war, I think you should learn a little bit of history.
The American Revolutionary War was a completely different scenario.
That has to be the most hilarious conspiracy theory I've ever heard: "Stan Rogers assassinated by the Irish Republican Army, because he wrote a song about the Troubles."
Like the IRA could rig a short circuit in a pump under a toilet that was guaranteed to smoke a lot. A bomb now, that'd be easy.
smeghead1851...you're almost suggesting that liberals can handle the truth, and not just the fantasy world they construct for themselves.
Wow you sound intelligent! You must read Huffington Post!
+joeymediauk Wow , you sound thicker than two short planks, you must listen to Rush, Sean & the other "patriots" lol
Stop arguing, Liberal or Conservative, what's the difference? They're a bunch of scumbags with power.
joeymediauk...You obviously missed the point of the whole fucking song and conversation.