SainSmart GS-775M spindle upgrade for 3018 Pro
Vložit
- čas přidán 29. 08. 2024
- SainSmart started offering an upgraded spindle for their 3018 series of CNC routers. This one is rated at 20,000 RPMs at 24v. The one that comes with the 3018 Pro is rated at 7,000 RPMs at 24v. The new one is almost 3 times faster!! Se we ordered one. Also ordered a new collet extension to put on the new motor.
This video is a how to for putting the collet extension on to the spindle and getting the new motor installed onto the Genmitsu 3018 Pro. We will talk about the issues we ran into. It seems this new spindle is NOT compatible with the 3018 Pro. It draws more power than the controller can output.
GS-775M spindle motor is compatible with the factory/out of the box Genmitsu 3018 Pro IF you modify your GCode. The power supply does not have enough power to drive the spindle at more than about 40% power (S4000) at startup. If the GCode is modified to ramp up the S value, then it can work at higher settings.
With $30=10000
S4000
M3
G4 P.25
S6000
M3
G4 P.25
S8000
M3
G4 P.25
S10000
M3 - Jak na to + styl
You will need to update your GCode in order to ramp up the spindle speed slowly and don’t kill the cnc power supply that is only 5 watts, replace this:
S10000
M3
with this:
S4000
M3
G4 P.25
S6000
M3
G4 P.25
S8000
M3
G4 P.25
S10000
M3
Thank you Julio for the advice. I was planning on working with router to find out what I can do with the new spindle. With the smaller power supply, I can run it at S400 (I have it set with 1,000 as the max) and it seems to work properly. When I step it up to S500, then it doesn't have enough power. A larger power supply does seem to be the answer. I do worry about the controller handling the extra power or should I say, not handling the extra power. I like your idea of ramping up the spindle. I will try out your code to see how that works. I may power the spindle with its own power supply and bypass the controller. This means I will have to turn it on and off manually or, if I were clever, hook up a relay to the Woodpecker's spindle output to control the other power supply. Then the code would still turn the spindle on and off. I do tend to run at full speed anyway. ;-)
@@CNCATHome In my case I have a 24V 5amps power supply on a board is a "CAMTOOL" v3.3 and works ok with not issues with the new Gemitsu motor so far.
I am working on another video about this. When I ramp up the spindle speed and get it up to speed first, then start moving, it seems to work OK.
Can someone please direct me to actual keystrokes for entering the code? I suck at computers!
Curious why you specify S10000. Why not S20000 since it’s a 20000 rpm motor?
On my Chinese CNC conversion I made a high speed spindle by O ring drive belt with big plastic pulley on the motor and smaller brass one on the new spindle. I used the mill as the lathe to turn the pulleys. Tool bit in the vice.
Very creative!
I have a 3018 pro from yofuly i just got my spindle in today and it works fine at full power with my machine
Nice! What is the power rating on your power supply and what controller in on your machine? Mine is a Woodpecker controller and the power supply is 24V and 4.75A.
I just ordered the 3018 here in Germany to day for 126 €, it's good to know that there are problems with the upgraded motor, so I think it's almost better to offer the motor its own 36 V power supply... ultimately it comes down to it same out. Didn't you have any information on how many watts the motor delivers, it's even questionable that the machine only starts up at low speeds. i think the motor certainly draws more than 5 A at high speed even when idling.
So before I buy another motor, I would first try a Hadwear tuning, you have to turn the end shield to which the brushes are attached a few degrees, but not everyone dares to do that. The motors are industrially designed in such a way that they accelerate and have the same speed when turning left and right. That can be changed by optimizing in only one direction that u need. But a tuned motor also needs more power.. so the problem with the original power supply could be
be come the same.
Good luck with your 3018. I hope you enjoy it as much as I have enjoyed mine. I have thought about having a dedicated power supply for the spindle motor. I haven't done that yet but did start looking at power supplies some time ago. So far, the speed ramp up has worked just fine. As you know, most motors draw high current at start up and under heavy load. I would go with the external power supply if I were putting the spindle under a heavier load while cutting.
The motor did not come with a specification sheet and I "assumed" it would work just fine with the default controller as it was advertised as compatible with the 3018 Pro. I was disappointing when it didn't work right away. I was pleased that SainSmart support was able to help in providing a workaround. I don't know if a small motor like this really cares if you give it full power right away or if it likes being spun up a little more slowly like a big, three phase, industrial motor.
I like your thought on optimizing the motor for mono-direction operation as that is how it is used 100% of the time.
@@CNCATHome Thx Bro.. but thinkig of Quote " As you know, most motors draw high current at start up ((( and under heavy load. )))) " :-))) If I get any problems, then I'll have a brushless motor in my bracket, which also offers high torque at lower speeds.
Whis u well.
I just installed one has more power but twice as noisy as stock spindle and ramping up speed has caused no problems I wont put any more money into 3018 because it is not rigid enought it is great for the money but still just a toy !!!!
it's not worth running the motor through the control board. you were lucky and it didn't fry your board, I've seen too many comments from other people where the motor was started at 100% and the current draw fried the control board or even where they ramped up the speed and it still fried their board. Just one mistake when starting up the motor and your board could be toast. Just get an external PSU with relay and the motor can be turned on/off by the board, but the current never goes through your control board, if needed they have variable PWM PSU's if you need to vary the speed.
Thank you for the recommendation. That is great information for people to think about.
I bought a similar CNC but I couldn't change the engine speed. The speed adjustment in the GRBL program does not work, my engine always rotates at the same speed :/
Sorry to hear that. I have not had any issue adjusting the speed other than trying to start this thing at full power. There is a simple solution for that by ramping the speed up from 40% to 100%.
Jeez, I installed it, increased the power supply and ran it, but the noise level is off the charts. If I run it at 10K, it's 6-10db louder than the original one. There must be a quieter spindle that has more power. At 20K it's ridiculously loud.
What size power supply did you get for the new motor?
The original motor on the 3018 Pro runs at 7,000 RPMs at 24 volts. This new spindle will be louder when it runs at higher RPMs. It would be nice for it to be quite. High RPM motors tend to be louder. IT would be great to find a high power, high RPM, and very quiet motor.
Impressions at 08:00, the old motor wasn't too loud, the new motor test with no load will be totally different to when you're trying to cut/mill at 20k rpm.
Having heard your initial run up of the new motor, are you sure installed holder is not rubbing on the casing? Sounds very metallic. Can you try dampen the noise by wrapping some thin rubber doing the exposed casing ? Or see if it is just air noise by partially covering air holes round the top of the casing temporarily
Hi. Can I ask what camera you are using. It looks great! Thanks.
Thank you for the question. It looks like this video was shot with my Remali Capturecam. Here is a sponsored link to that camera on Amazon. CNC @ Home is an Amazon associate so we can earn a little commission if you purchase something using one of our links: amzn.to/2UAub3H
It does an OK job and I like that camera. It have a 170° view angle lens which causes some distortion. I do correct for that in post production when I think of it. ;-) I am now using a Canon VIXIA HFR800 for much of the shooting. Here are some Amazon links for this camera: amzn.to/3lIUf8E, amzn.to/2IQqncf, amzn.to/3lHARJf, amzn.to/36Kr2E1.
@@CNCATHome awesome. Thank you so much.
Saintsmart says right on its web page that you have to ramp it up or it will cause this issue, Or get a more powerful power supply, but they fear that might fry the controller
Thank you for letting me know. I am glad they have updated the information. That is something we talked about. The ramping up works just fine so far. One of the programs I use to generate my g-code I was able to get that added in so it will put that in for the motor control code for me each time. :-) I have thought about getting a separate power supply to drive the spindle. Maybe some time in the future if it is needed.
@@CNCATHome what program do you use for gcode generating that allows autogenerating that code to it each time?
@@jameswright2712 - For some things with my CNC router, I use a program called F-Engrave. There was a place to set up the code used for start up. I was able to put the ramp up code in there so when I generate my G-code in that application, I do not need to edit the code for that.
It will definately NOT fry the controller. The mosfet is rated far beyond what that spindle needs. You might however need a new PSU...
I emailed Sainsmart and they told me I was good to just plug and play because I had the upgraded power supply. I got mine about a week ago
Thanks for this awesome video, can this 775 little motor work continuously for more than 3 or 4 hours ? Cuz i think this motor not suitable for long continuous run?
That is a good question. I don't know the answer to that. I have not run a cut that took that long. I have not run into this spindle getting hot either. I would be more worried about the WoodPecker controller getting too hat on a long burn more than the spindle motor itself.
So you put a 450 hp engine in your Pinto and the transmission and rear end can't handle it. Did you ever get this sorted out? I've seen some other vids on replacement spindles that run too hot at those increased speeds and required some additional cooling.
That's great. I learned how to drive in a Pinto wagon and it did not have a 450 hp engine. It did have a 4 speed manual. The motor isn't too big for the machine as much as it is a power hog. The easy solution is shown in the description of the video where you add some ramp up code to the spindle so it starts at 40% and then 60%, then 80%, and finally full power. That seems to work well. I have not done much cutting with it yet. What I have done has worked fine. The ramp up time is about a second so you don't even notice it when it is doing it. They do have a larger power supply at SainSmart specifically for this and it puts out more current so you can brute force the thing right to full speed.
So this is more like putting a bigger engine and drivetrain in the pinto but not putting a bigger fuel pump in to feed the thing.
gro-op😂 in da basement 🎉
Could you send a link to the awesome STOP button and perhaps show how you hooked it up to the controller? I bought a cheap one from SainSmart but no instructions how to plug it in.
Sure! I got mine through Amazon. This is a sponsored link meaning that if you buy it, CNC @ Home may get a little commission on the sale: amzn.to/3b1dkyR
As for hooking it up, you just need to connect between the A1 pins on the WoodPecker controller. It isn't technically a stop. It is a pause so the spinal will continue to spin. To get a true e-stop, you would need to connect your power through the button so when you pressed it, the power would be interrupted and everything would stop.
You need to hook an aditional speed controller or change mosfets on stock controller.
No, you don't need to. The Mosfet is rated 18A at 40V. That is more than enough for this spindle-motor. You however need (depending on your stock PSU) a more powerful PSU. My stock one was delivered as 24V 8A. And it just works fine.
Tried it, was too loud even at 10,000 - supposed to have an anti-noise circuit but I didn't see any. Oddly enough 300/500 watt OEM china spindles are more quiet.
The "noise" suppression circuit does not refer to directly audible noise but to EMI. It suppresses radio-interference-noise. I however have not tested how bad the old spindle was in this regard compared to the new one.
According to SaintSmart they say this is an upgrade for the 3018 Pro, that the new PSU 24v 4A can take it if you ramp it upm, but in the comments the opinions are not all the same, i wonder what's the reality because i wanted to get one but i didnt want to have to get another PSU and another motherboard to be able to handle the higher Amps..
Can anyone tell me if this is really plug and play (and durable) or sooner or later i'll have to do PSU and motherboard upgrades also?
Good question. All in all, the woodpecker that came with my 3018 Pro is capable of running the upgraded spindle motor. You do have to ramp up the start as it will draw too much current at start-up from nothing to around 50 to 60% power. If you start it at 40% and ramp it up to 100%, it is good. It is quick too. The ramp up code in the description of this video takes less than a second to complete the startup of the motor. I have it set as a default in some of my software so I don't have to add it to the G-Code anymore. You still can put the spindle motor under enough load so that it will draw more current than the controller has and it will go into some kind of limp mode. If you plan to do aggressive cutting with this spindle motor, I would connect it to its own power supply that could provide all the current it wants. I am still on the fence to do this as I typically don't load it up too much and it hasn't been an issue yet.
@@CNCATHome thanks for the reply! If I end up getting this motor I'll also make the start gcode mod to ramp it up slowly and as far as agressive cutting goes I don't plan on doing so, and if I do deep cuts will be with smaller steps to get a better finish and not put so much load on the motor.
11:03 same source voltage there have to be gears inside to make it go faster.so its noisy and less torgue
The new motor is the same 24 volt but it draws more current. It is designed to run faster. No gears I assure you. ;-) The motor gets its speed and better torque from the increase in current. That is why there was an issue getting it going. The power supply does not have enough current to drive the motor up to speed and run the stepper motors.
The speed (no load) of a dc motor is determined by the back EMF, which is a function of the windings.
Would you happen to know what the power supply is rated at for 24VDC? My original supply and upgraded supply both are rated at 4A! Could they have included the upgraded supply with the 3018 PROVer?
The power supply that came with my 3018Pro is a 24v 4.75amp supply. Just enough to get this new spindle motor working if I include the ramp up code when I start it spinning. I do not know what SainSmart includes with the 3018 PROVer. You could ask them: www.sainsmart.com/pages/contact-us. They usually do a good job at getting back in a day or so.
Mine had a 24V DC 8A on stock 3018pro. I also did the spindle upgrade and had no issues at all. I also do not need to ramp speeds up. Just turn it on. The Mosfet on the driver, btw. is rated for 18A at 40V, so no need to change it either. And it stays cool, too.
what are you doing mate the motors come with a collet fitted to them, you got scammed and use a slide hammer cause its designed for stuff like this.
Well, they do now. When I purchased my GS-775M, they didn't have the option to get it with the collet already installed. It was less than a week later that they were offering it that way. Oh well, I don't mind doing the work myself and it went on just fine. I did get a little lucky that I didn't over drive it onto the shaft. I had planned on putting a spacer under to prevent that from happening. ;-)
@@CNCATHome have you milled any aluminium with that new spindle? if so what speeds and feeds and stepdowns you using? i have just upgraded from stock spindle to the 20000rpm one and i have an ally part to make luckily im a sheet metal worker so i got some 5251 soft ally that ok for machining just researching the best way to approach this
@@happybrainybren - I have not done much with metal using this machine. It should do a nice job. This wiki page should give you a good idea where to start. :-)
usually there is a small red dot to indicate + do you have a price for the GS-775 also do you know the watt draw of the new verse old
You can get the new motor from SainSmart for $22. They have an option with the collet extension already put on for $30. Here is a link: www.sainsmart.com/collections/genmitsu-cnc/products/genmitsu-gs-775m-24v-20-000-rpm-motor-noise-suppression
I do not have any current information on this motor or the old one. I could hook up my multi-meter to see what the draw was.
try s4000m3 g4p.25 s6000 m3 g4p.25 s8000 m3 g4p.25 s10000 m3 g4 p.25 only takes seconds or use separate power supy for spindle its a pain to put at the begining of every program but it works and doesnt strain stock board
That is the solution we ended up using. I added that to the video description a few months back. Great solution. I am looking at the new power supply SainSmart is selling. It will deliver 8 to 10 amps for motor startup.
What's the difference between the 20,000 rpm and the 500-watt motors ?
Great question. The 20,000 rpm replacement motor will just work with the default controller and power supply which have 114 watt output. It requires some extra G-Code when turning on the spindle so it ramps up to full speed as going directly to full power overloads the controller as it just doesn't have the power to do that. A 500 watt motor would require an external power supply and provide you with more torque while cutting. I don't have the specs on the 500 watt motor but based on the 500 watt part, it would really have quite a bit more power to cut through stuff.
hello very good your video, please is it possible to share the cnc3018 parameters?
if i'm not mistaken they are 132 at all, because i have a cnc like yours but i lost the parameters. the command to access the parameters is $$ typed in the grbl sender
My 3018 Pro settings are:
$0 = 10 (Step pulse time, microseconds)
$1 = 25 (Step idle delay, milliseconds)
$2 = 0 (Step pulse invert, mask)
$3 = 5 (Step direction invert, mask)
$4 = 0 (Invert step enable pin, boolean)
$5 = 0 (Invert limit pins, boolean)
$6 = 0 (Invert probe pin, boolean)
$10 = 1 (Status report options, mask)
$11 = 0.010 (Junction deviation, millimeters)
$12 = 0.002 (Arc tolerance, millimeters)
$13 = 0 (Report in inches, boolean)
$20 = 0 (Soft limits enable, boolean)
$21 = 1 (Hard limits enable, boolean)
$22 = 1 (Homing cycle enable, boolean)
$23 = 3 (Homing direction invert, mask)
$24 = 25.000 (Homing locate feed rate, mm/min)
$25 = 500.000 (Homing search seek rate, mm/min)
$26 = 255 (Homing switch debounce delay, milliseconds)
$27 = 1.000 (Homing switch pull-off distance, millimeters)
$30 = 1000 (Maximum spindle speed, RPM)
$31 = 0 (Minimum spindle speed, RPM)
$32 = 0 (Laser-mode enable, boolean)
$100 = 800.000 (X-axis travel resolution, step/mm)
$101 = 800.000 (Y-axis travel resolution, step/mm)
$102 = 800.000 (Z-axis travel resolution, step/mm)
$110 = 800.000 (X-axis maximum rate, mm/min)
$111 = 800.000 (Y-axis maximum rate, mm/min)
$112 = 600.000 (Z-axis maximum rate, mm/min)
$120 = 10.000 (X-axis acceleration, mm/sec^2)
$121 = 10.000 (Y-axis acceleration, mm/sec^2)
$122 = 10.000 (Z-axis acceleration, mm/sec^2)
$130 = 300.000 (X-axis maximum travel, millimeters)
$131 = 180.000 (Y-axis maximum travel, millimeters)
$132 = 45.000 (Z-axis maximum travel, millimeters)
20k at 24v..pretty fishy. More a Dremel than a Metalgrinder i guess.
hot décibel
It is loud.
They should use a 300 watt spindle min. That 7K spindle is junk. You need 24K min. The new spindle will do the job.
For a very entry level machine, the spindle motor that comes with the 3018Pro does a good job. It is a less expensive motor and keeps the price of this machine nice and low. I did many cuts with the stock motor. You can run it at 36v and get 9,000 RPMs out of it.
I agree that a more powerful motor is needed to up the game on this machine. One reason for this upgrade on my machine. I have seen many mods with much larger spindle motors. Too much bigger will require an updated cradle on the gantry to support the weight and torque. The Woodpecker controller is limited to the power it can handle so running the spindle from an external power supply is another good modification.
The 3018Pro is a great starting point for CNC routing. There are plenty of modification to be made to up its game. At some point, after many modification, it may be time to migrate to a bigger machine. Everything you learn using this desktop machine is a transferable skill to be used on another machine.
What is the model # of the woodpecker control board?
It is difficult to get behind there to see. I took a picture with my phone and it shows Woodpecker 3.2 I hope that helps you.
@@CNCATHome thank you so much!
15:12 its working? what is problem.both wants 24v volts nothing changed lol
You can run the motor at about 40% just fine. When you go higher, it draws too much current for the controller to run the spindle and the steppers. I have another video coming out with a solution to this issue. I also have the solution in the video description. If you ramp up the power to the motor vs. starting it at full power, the controller and power supply seem to work OK. It is just that start up power draw the ends up exceeding the available power and the controller shuts down for a second to protect itself.
the wattage has changed. if the stock 775 100w motor can do around 7000-9000 rpm , then this motor with like 20000rpm is probably 200w.
This makes more noise than my router.
It is loud for sure. I added a KABA Light box from SainSmart and that help reduce the noise.
3x the speed and 3x the sound level.
It is not quite. Check out this video I did about the KABA lite box from SainSmart czcams.com/video/FXZPxN9mupI/video.html
@@CNCATHome better ( almost as bad as a screaming Baby) but I will try a cheap brushless motor.
@@tevya017 - Let us know how that works!
@@CNCATHome fitted a cheapo 400w ! not brushless motor on my small 1610 machine using Minh's cave aluminium z axis mod. and it's much quieter and better in every way apart from the size. Thanks for asking.
@@tevya017 - Nice. I hope it works well for you. Always fun to make improvements to our machines.
10:08 red dot was + lol
It wasn't very clear on my original spindle motor. On closer examination, there is a very small "+" marked on the motor back. I guess I got lucky and I was keeping an eye on this during assembly.