I have been in the trade for 46 years. If you are looking for respect you won’t get it here. Both of my sons are electricians, and if they put in a light switch for someone they are a hero. This trade is much more skilled than electrician or a plumber and no one really cares. They throw you offers of overtime to try to make up for being Underpaid. I am 65 years old and have always worked 50 to 60 hours a week, and now I am resentful that I spent that many hours in the shop away from the family. Time is something that you can’t get back!! You will never get rich being a tool and die maker and you can’t do side jobs like you can if you were an electrician or a plumber.
The difference though. You can still do your job at 65, every try running wire through tight spaces or crawling through crawlspaces like an Electrician or Plumber? Trust me, their bodies get worn out a lot quicker at a younger age. Not to mention it's not fun doing either outdoors in the Winter. The only think Toolmakers lose is their hair from pulling it out. Also, the pay is good on my end, 6 figures every year, but I'm also in a Union for the Big 3. I wouldn't do it otherwise.
I started in my dads shop as a T&D Apprentice in 1965. As with any trade I had to start paying my dues. Cutting off steel for the journeyman. The pay was very low but again. Ya gotta pay your dues. If you can not master the simple stuff you don't have what it takes!!! It's was never ever about the money anyway. Nothing filling is about the money! Anyway, was drafter at 18, fought a small war in south east Asia, got severely wounded, came back home and took over the t&d shop. Started manufacturing on the side. After many years of hard hard hard work 6 & 7 days a week success came. I sold both shops and retired at 50 years old. I've been retired many years. Success comes to those that drive hard. The rest don't deserve it!!!
JD W this trade is a amazing trade! Pays well, it's challenging and you never go unemployed in the northeast! So many people whining that this trade sucks, they're just in the wrong shop. Or they don't have any entrepreneurial blood in them.
I'm a tool and die maker with 5 year experience in die assembly and I'm searching for a better opportunity in your country if you have any information regarding this please inform me
Love the story. I had to cut the die shoes and punch retainers out of hot rolled out back of the shop with acetylene as an apprentice. I imagine you had your days doing that too.
My earnings in 1981 would be equivalent to $185,000 in 2024 dollars. 1981 was the year I finished my Tool & Die apprenticeship. That year, worked 58hrs/week and I received $8,200 profit sharing. Today, there aren't any shops offering much overtime, nor profit sharing. There were some good years in the '90s, but the overall 40+ year earnings trend for this work has been sharply downhill. I don't see it ever recovering.
As a toolmaker I always thought millwrights were magicians. "There is no way you're getting that 800 ton press through that door laying on it's side, bring it to the pit, right side it and put it in the pit w/o scratching a thing." I was proven wrong.
Yes, it's an amazing trade and as my dad said many times; "You are either born with the ability to learn it or you aren't!" A few will be the best most are just good and a few should find another trade!
Retired from my decades of T&D . . . made some really good money but as China got passed our work wages have gone down consistently. If I could go back in time I would got into electrical and got an Electricians job in one of the big car manufacturers. Electricians . . . top of the food chain in those factories. Revered amongst management as having had saved their necks regularly . Retiring at 65 from a full career of T&D . . . THE AVERAGE LIFESPAN AFTER RETIREMENT IS 1.8 years .ONE POINT EIGHT YEARS. STRESSFUL JOB WITH SHIFTWORK AS THE CAUSE. . . . your call . Love it . . . OR CHOOSE SOMETHING ELSE YOU LOVE TO DO .
Times have changed, I work for one of the big car companies, now the TD guys get paid more than Electricans, we top out at $40/hr now with benefits. Electricians top out at $38, too many people wanted to be an Electrician, and now its flooded, but not too many wanted to be TD, lots more involved though on the computer side of things.
Broke my back in my last six months. Loved it tho. Tough work, but it's proud work. I wasn't much of a math guy, knowing the principles and using it everyday helped.
How did you break your back doing Tool and Die job, I really want to read about it? Never heard of that by the way, Ive seen tool and die working hard everywhere, but never heard anyone breaking their backs, same with millwrights. I do hear Electriciand and Plumbers having back problems.
@@e2sguy Yep, likely a non union machine shop. Which explains why he went through a website for an apprenticeship. My shop is Union and they want you to take your time to get it done right and perfect.
God bless these guys working a high tech skilled job for peanuts each week .he will realize after a few years his wage won’t keep up with inflation and his great opportunity isn’t as bright as he once thought . Teachers or local cops will make more than this guy with much better benefits and not have to stand in front of dangerous equipment on a cement floor for ten hours a day making the boss rich trying to meet impossible deadlines and close tolerances
I know what you're saying. Some Master tool makers are getting by with only $85K annual salary. Some luckier ones are earning just over $100,000. An old friend of my dad is struggling with his paid-off house, annual vacations in Hawai, and his kids in college. I feel so sorry for the guy...
@@842qwery What you're saying improbably partially true. Most toolmakers got addicted to working long hours, just to make decent money. Not a way to raise a family.
@@scottrackley4457 He may be starting out with cheap harbor freight calipers. As a die maker who has trained many employees, I would suggest to them buy good quality tools slowly. It takes time. We understand they will need to borrow for at least a few years. If I saw a young man with cheap calipers like that who couldnt afford better but made an effort, I would Give him a set of new mitutoyo calipers and ask him for the cheap ones so I could throw them away. they have the potential to cost the shop a lot of money at some point. It would be a trade up for the young man and he would hopefully remember the lesson
@@danneumann3274 Oh, I agree. Apprentices could ask for any tool in my box, as long as it came back in one piece and as clean as it was when I handed it to them. I had one apprentice when he got to 3rd year would calibrate my C mikes with my standards before he handed them back. Guy runs a shop today and lets me come in and show stuff every now and then. Edit: I was partial to B&S back then because that what my master used, so that's what I bought. Now TESA owns them, but there's no drop off. I have apprentices who use TESA now bc that's as close as they could get to the old man's tools. :P Good kids. err...men, now.
A honest noble job yes but 9 times out ten your boss will exploit you and keep you doing more work for less benefits . Your raises will be far and few between and your pay will be the same as it was twenty years ago when you finally get to the top after a decade
@@scottrackley4457"Pay well"? That's relative. The long-term earnings trajectory for toolmakers has been steeply downhill. I know. I'm 45 years in the trade -- if I made what I made in my last year as an apprentice (1981), I'd be making $185,000/year now. I'm not, and none of the old-timers are.
its a fulfilling job. be a slave to money and try to live happy. i love a challange. on top of it. You can manipulate metal you can work any material. this coming from a cnc guy.. i want that job. And i did some things in my apprenticeship that lead me to believe that..
4 years later as China through consumerism has picked up jobs that have been sold out to them via our politicians. there are far less shops left to work in. If you want in, do it in CNC, EDM and robotics.
A major corporation I work for will no longer order any dies made in China. If it doesn't work, the place that made it vanishes. They once sent us a die with a hardened (Rc57) stripper. Turned to gravel on a mishit and nearly killed a girl.
Georgia sounds warm . I’m a mold maker who spent last two decades in close tolerance connector mold work on edm and grinders . I know injection molding inside and out
N L every state has an apprenticeship program. I almost went into the electrical trade through California but decided to go to university instead to get my bachelor’s in electrical engineering.
Duh, it's tool and die. Half their stuff is one offs. Think if you where the boss. Do you pay a cnc programmer 50 bucks an hour to make a part in 2-3 hours or a manual guy 30 bucks an hour to do it in 1 hour? CNC is great for production or complex geometries. But if you just need a block with some holes and a box in the middle with a keyway. Using a cnc is stupid.
what problem??? When I got out after working five years for them I was getting $2.50 cents per hour. Had a family too. Wife and kids. I asked for a raise. Employer said it was not economically feasible. I walked out and never went back. There was nothing else to do.
Boy that's for sure. I started in1967, and by the time I retired the first time after 32 years at Ford, our trade had stagnated, and then went backwards in pay compared to the lesser trades like electrician, and plumber. The pay was about the same in the big three, but outside, the pay sucked. Most of the time now the job shops pay about $15/hour, and they beat you up. The electricians, and plumbers on the outside make easily 3 times that much. I feel sorry for this guy starting his apprenticeship. Switch to another trade before it's too late.
He's getting rushed. I'm so glad I got lucky enough to get a Union Tool and Die apprenticeship through a car manufacturer. They want you to take your time, not get stressed, and focus to get the job done right and with precision. This looks like he's being slave driven.
only job worth having in machining is a cnc programmer whos an expert in all the mainstream cad /cam programs.. As a newb you will make more than the 40yr veteran tool die maker next to you.
That old fart called those calipers verniers! My boss didn't like me measuring a bore with a telescoping gauge. He said "use your verniers"! I looked around and said ....we'll I don't have verniers! Then he grabbed my DIGITAL calipers and said "these". Old school lol. I'll bet 75 percent of new machinists can't even read vernier calipers
Hell no. This seems interesting to me. You can create many things you want just with your hands, machines, logic and creativity. It's classic mechanical engineering discipline. After that you can jump into CAD/CAM modeling, automation, robotics... options are practicaly endless. Sorry for my bad english... its not my native language.
I will be forever grateful to the crusty old tool makers that made me what I am today. It's awesome to see the process continuing.
It's very stressful. My brother did it for 4 years and went back to assembling at GE making 30-35 an hour. But it's not for everyone.
It's not for everyone, we try to weed people like your brother out. Gives us more job security and overtime. Good luck retiring on assembly.
I have been in the trade for 46 years. If you are looking for respect you won’t get it here. Both of my sons are electricians, and if they put in a light switch for someone they are a hero. This trade is much more skilled than electrician or a plumber and no one really cares. They throw you offers of overtime to try to make up for being Underpaid. I am 65 years old and have always worked 50 to 60 hours a week, and now I am resentful that I spent that many hours in the shop away from the family. Time is something that you can’t get back!! You will never get rich being a tool and die maker and you can’t do side jobs like you can if you were an electrician or a plumber.
The difference though. You can still do your job at 65, every try running wire through tight spaces or crawling through crawlspaces like an Electrician or Plumber? Trust me, their bodies get worn out a lot quicker at a younger age. Not to mention it's not fun doing either outdoors in the Winter. The only think Toolmakers lose is their hair from pulling it out. Also, the pay is good on my end, 6 figures every year, but I'm also in a Union for the Big 3. I wouldn't do it otherwise.
Good luck. Wish you a successful machinist life.
I started in my dads shop as a T&D Apprentice in 1965. As with any trade I had to start paying my dues. Cutting off steel for the journeyman. The pay was very low but again. Ya gotta pay your dues. If you can not master the simple stuff you don't have what it takes!!! It's was never ever about the money anyway. Nothing filling is about the money! Anyway, was drafter at 18, fought a small war in south east Asia, got severely wounded, came back home and took over the t&d shop. Started manufacturing on the side. After many years of hard hard hard work 6 & 7 days a week success came. I sold both shops and retired at 50 years old. I've been retired many years. Success comes to those that drive hard. The rest don't deserve it!!!
JD W this trade is a amazing trade! Pays well, it's challenging and you never go unemployed in the northeast! So many people whining that this trade sucks, they're just in the wrong shop. Or they don't have any entrepreneurial blood in them.
I'm a tool and die maker with 5 year experience in die assembly and I'm searching for a better opportunity in your country if you have any information regarding this please inform me
Love the story. I had to cut the die shoes and punch retainers out of hot rolled out back of the shop with acetylene as an apprentice. I imagine you had your days doing that too.
This is my passion, my trade and Im proud of it.
My earnings in 1981 would be equivalent to $185,000 in 2024 dollars. 1981 was the year I finished my Tool & Die apprenticeship. That year, worked 58hrs/week and I received $8,200 profit sharing. Today, there aren't any shops offering much overtime, nor profit sharing. There were some good years in the '90s, but the overall 40+ year earnings trend for this work has been sharply downhill. I don't see it ever recovering.
I started in 1968 right out of high school , retired last year, worked for five companies and the US ARMY and was never unemployed.
Dude thats awesome.
I wish you well man
I started my apprenticeship for millwrighting at Edwards Pro-tech and know Ryan who still works there today, great guy and a great place to work!
As a toolmaker I always thought millwrights were magicians. "There is no way you're getting that 800 ton press through that door laying on it's side, bring it to the pit, right side it and put it in the pit w/o scratching a thing." I was proven wrong.
I had an uncle who was a Rover Group Tookmaker in Canley Coventry, UK. His name was Austin. He was named after an American relative.
Yes, it's an amazing trade and as my dad said many times; "You are either born with the ability to learn it or you aren't!" A few will be the best most are just good and a few should find another trade!
Your father was right, either you can or you cannot learn it
Retired from my decades of T&D . . . made some really good money but as China got passed our work wages have gone down consistently. If I could go back in time I would got into electrical and got an Electricians job in one of the big car manufacturers. Electricians . . . top of the food chain in those factories. Revered amongst management as having had saved their necks regularly .
Retiring at 65 from a full career of T&D . . . THE AVERAGE LIFESPAN AFTER RETIREMENT IS 1.8 years .ONE POINT EIGHT YEARS. STRESSFUL JOB WITH SHIFTWORK AS THE CAUSE. . . . your call . Love it . . . OR CHOOSE SOMETHING ELSE YOU LOVE TO DO .
Times have changed, I work for one of the big car companies, now the TD guys get paid more than Electricans, we top out at $40/hr now with benefits. Electricians top out at $38, too many people wanted to be an Electrician, and now its flooded, but not too many wanted to be TD, lots more involved though on the computer side of things.
Broke my back in my last six months. Loved it tho. Tough work, but it's proud work. I wasn't much of a math guy, knowing the principles and using it everyday helped.
How did you break your back doing Tool and Die job, I really want to read about it? Never heard of that by the way, Ive seen tool and die working hard everywhere, but never heard anyone breaking their backs, same with millwrights. I do hear Electriciand and Plumbers having back problems.
I’m about to go work at Emerson Branson ultra Sonics tomorrow as a pre apprentice
Most people can't do what we do we know this and most people can't do our job.
I've never seen someone move so fast in a shop. Good Luck Man!
Daniel hes not that ambitious actually his boss is likely a slave driver . That’s the case these days with shop owners
Repeat after me..."slow is smooth, smooth is fast"
@@e2sguy Yep, likely a non union machine shop. Which explains why he went through a website for an apprenticeship. My shop is Union and they want you to take your time to get it done right and perfect.
awesome dude
God bless these guys working a high tech skilled job for peanuts each week .he will realize after a few years his wage won’t keep up with inflation and his great opportunity isn’t as bright as he once thought . Teachers or local cops will make more than this guy with much better benefits and not have to stand in front of dangerous equipment on a cement floor for ten hours a day making the boss rich trying to meet impossible deadlines and close tolerances
what are you talking about ?
Your talking tosh. Skilled Toolmakers are a skill shortage and in High demand. Always earn good money.
I know what you're saying. Some Master tool makers are getting by with only $85K annual salary. Some luckier ones are earning just over $100,000. An old friend of my dad is struggling with his paid-off house, annual vacations in Hawai, and his kids in college. I feel so sorry for the guy...
@@842qwery What you're saying improbably partially true. Most toolmakers got addicted to working long hours, just to make decent money. Not a way to raise a family.
@@ianjarrett2724 Boy are you dreaming. Skill and stress yes but pay??
I appreciate that statement 2:18
check the 1:23 time. Lose those calipers and You may do well in this trade. Nice young man .
Surely he's just using calipers to get in the ballpark :P
@@scottrackley4457 He may be starting out with cheap harbor freight calipers. As a die maker who has trained many employees, I would suggest to them buy good quality tools slowly. It takes time. We understand they will need to borrow for at least a few years. If I saw a young man with cheap calipers like that who couldnt afford better but made an effort, I would Give him a set of new mitutoyo calipers and ask him for the cheap ones so I could throw them away. they have the potential to cost the shop a lot of money at some point. It would be a trade up for the young man and he would hopefully remember the lesson
@@danneumann3274 Oh, I agree. Apprentices could ask for any tool in my box, as long as it came back in one piece and as clean as it was when I handed it to them. I had one apprentice when he got to 3rd year would calibrate my C mikes with my standards before he handed them back. Guy runs a shop today and lets me come in and show stuff every now and then.
Edit: I was partial to B&S back then because that what my master used, so that's what I bought. Now TESA owns them, but there's no drop off. I have apprentices who use TESA now bc that's as close as they could get to the old man's tools. :P Good kids. err...men, now.
It is fun to me.
A honest noble job yes but 9 times out ten your boss will exploit you and keep you doing more work for less benefits . Your raises will be far and few between and your pay will be the same as it was twenty years ago when you finally get to the top after a decade
That is about 95 to 99.9% true
Sheesh
Odd, my company can't find me another master toolmaker to save their life, and they pay well.
@@scottrackley4457"Pay well"? That's relative. The long-term earnings trajectory for toolmakers has been steeply downhill. I know. I'm 45 years in the trade -- if I made what I made in my last year as an apprentice (1981), I'd be making $185,000/year now. I'm not, and none of the old-timers are.
its a fulfilling job. be a slave to money and try to live happy. i love a challange. on top of it. You can manipulate metal you can work any material. this coming from a cnc guy.. i want that job. And i did some things in my apprenticeship that lead me to believe that..
4 years later as China through consumerism has picked up jobs that have been sold out to them via our politicians. there are far less shops left to work in. If you want in, do it in CNC, EDM and robotics.
A major corporation I work for will no longer order any dies made in China. If it doesn't work, the place that made it vanishes. They once sent us a die with a hardened (Rc57) stripper. Turned to gravel on a mishit and nearly killed a girl.
FYI...I need a Tool and Die maker for our company in Georgia! Must know plastic injection molding tho.
Im a mould maker. What is pay like in Georgia? Im from Ontario up in Canada.
Georgia sounds warm . I’m a mold maker who spent last two decades in close tolerance connector mold work on edm and grinders . I know injection molding inside and out
Danielle Baird Hi..would you provide email
I am tool and die maker .any opportunity madam.
I wish the USA had apprentice search... all we have is indeed
N L every state has an apprenticeship program. I almost went into the electrical trade through California but decided to go to university instead to get my bachelor’s in electrical engineering.
lol. there are companies which still use non cnc chipping machines?
Duh, it's tool and die.
Half their stuff is one offs.
Think if you where the boss.
Do you pay a cnc programmer 50 bucks an hour to make a part in 2-3 hours or a manual guy 30 bucks an hour to do it in 1 hour?
CNC is great for production or complex geometries. But if you just need a block with some holes and a box in the middle with a keyway. Using a cnc is stupid.
I want to do this work for you, I am from India.
It was the highest paid trade and now its the lowest !!!!
what problem??? When I got out after working five years for them I was getting $2.50 cents per hour. Had a family too. Wife and kids. I asked for a raise. Employer said it was not economically feasible. I walked out and never went back. There was nothing else to do.
truth seeker you did yourself a big favor by leaving
Boy that's for sure. I started in1967, and by the time I retired the first time after 32 years at Ford, our trade had stagnated, and then went backwards in pay compared to the lesser trades like electrician, and plumber. The pay was about the same in the big three, but outside, the pay sucked. Most of the time now the job shops pay about $15/hour, and they beat you up. The electricians, and plumbers on the outside make easily 3 times that much. I feel sorry for this guy starting his apprenticeship. Switch to another trade before it's too late.
So plz aap ka how on plz help me sir
Get yourself a trade that you can go on your own otherwise you will work forever for someone else.
He says young person, what about us 44 years old. We don't deserve a job and apprenticeship. We take care of family and we should be given chance too.
Where’s anyone saying that a person your age can’t? I think you are reading into it wrong.
akkada company
That job moved to China !
To the three post below me stop your whining and get busy, stop with the excuses and make it happen. They will always need tool and die makers.
Or you could be like me....a master plumber to pay the bills, and have fun in my machine shop/gun smith cave to stay sane....haha get it? :)
He's getting rushed. I'm so glad I got lucky enough to get a Union Tool and Die apprenticeship through a car manufacturer. They want you to take your time, not get stressed, and focus to get the job done right and with precision. This looks like he's being slave driven.
2:30 use a deadblow son, not a ball peen
only job worth having in machining is a cnc programmer whos an expert in all the mainstream cad /cam programs.. As a newb you will make more than the 40yr veteran tool die maker next to you.
That old fart called those calipers verniers! My boss didn't like me measuring a bore with a telescoping gauge. He said "use your verniers"! I looked around and said ....we'll I don't have verniers! Then he grabbed my DIGITAL calipers and said "these". Old school lol. I'll bet 75 percent of new machinists can't even read vernier calipers
this job seems so boring...
you are a fking idiot with a boring life
Fool this job will keep u busy and learning and a nice pay checc at the end of the week
@Hke D fucc u talking to homie?
Not boring, but tedious. It can be scary at times when one slip can ruin many hours of work. Also you can be put in many dangerous situations.
Hell no. This seems interesting to me. You can create many things you want just with your hands, machines, logic and creativity. It's classic mechanical engineering discipline. After that you can jump into CAD/CAM modeling, automation, robotics... options are practicaly endless. Sorry for my bad english... its not my native language.