Thrawn Is Not Evil
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- čas přidán 23. 12. 2020
- When Dave Filoni brought Thrawn back to life in the Rebels Cartoon, he made the Chiss warrior into a simple villain. We believe that Thrawn is far more than just some normal bad guy, he has his own motives that aren't necessarily bad for the wider galaxy.
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I absolutely agree, Thrawn isn’t evil, he’s just a pragmatic authoritarian but much more nuanced, thoughtful & even respectful than his Rebels depiction
I agree. In his first appearance in the heir to the empire series he was much more tactically inclined.
Are you an imp?
@@shawncollard623 he was the mary sue character of the author, grown to epic proportion due to the fan finally having a competent imperial to root for...but honestly much of his victory are asspull that absolutely depend on the fact that the enemy is a planet of the hat that will make Star Trek say: ehy stop generalizing. Rebels depiction as more as a rutheless and Sherloquesche analyst that use his capacity for military reason but it's not omniscient or invincible is much more credible, especially due to the fact that his victory are more due to planning, analysis but also having a an immense numerical advantage over the enemy. He is just become in the years after his first trilogy a mithyc figure whose legend among the fan is more due to his appeal and nostalgia than what he had done really in the initial book
Agreed.
@@lukedalton I highly recommend reading the Legends Thrawn Trilogy to see the nuances of his character. He is never portrayed as omniscient or invincible and is ultimately defeated because of his flaws and not the impossible situations that Rebels feels the need to throw at him.
I Interpreted thrawns aggressive outburst to slavin as a reaction to slavins ignorance. He clearly tried to Teach him in tactics and culture, but He wouldn't listen. Plus the racist comment in the calikori made Thrawn, for a second, visibly angry.
Thats how I See it.
Yeah that’s exactly what it was, he’s a man of cultural respect and understanding, and to have one of his subordinates act disrespectfully like that would definitely annoy him
Plus, that officer was probably the reason why they had rebels on Ryloth. If you treat the locals like garbage, you can probably expect them to rebel against your rule.
Yeah I see those scenes as, If you pissed thrawn off, you've really done something stupid
I agree, Thrawn was more than patient with Slavin, that guy was a grade-A boob. I wouldn't have been able to muster Thrawn's level of patience for a moron like that. He tried to be nice, he tried to be subtle, but it failed, so he used the last resort of anger to show he means business. It's not like he had Slavin executed like Tarkin did with Miles and Grint for their incopetence.
He's not a man togive in to irrationality and emotions such as rage
I think it’s the Rebels writers because Zahn knows how to write him.
zahn is easily the best writer for star wars books
@@tomascbonez6355 Drew Karpyshyn : Am I a joke to you?
@handri i faloni and favro
@Lexington73300 Ofc he did. It's his brain child. But he has no say in how Disney writes his chracter, and you'll notice the big difference between his portrayal in Rebels and the canon novels.
@@Zr0g_Schwifty Favro had nothing to do with Rebels, that was all Filoni. Though personally I think based on his work on Clone Wars and Mando that he was being hamstrung by Disney’s Story Group. After all the member Pablo Hidalgo is affiliated with Rebels a lot
He's simply an amazing antagonist, not a villain like when everyone is playing checkers and he's doing 4D chess
Joe kush you got that from eckharts video when he said the same thing but referring to the sith and revan lmao
@@mattyice9300 true but its a good representation lol
And he got beat by checkers
Same with palleon
@@EzekielDeLaCroix nah either betrayal, or WHALES!
WWWWWHHHHHAAAAALLLLLEEEEESSSSS!
"You may have gotten checkmate, but we are playing Chinese checkers" - Admiral Thrawn
"I hold all the cards, Captain Syndula. There is nothing you can do that I have not already anticipated"
"Well, I summon Exodia! Draw four, Admiral. And that's Uno!"
"What... how... We're not... I didn't mean... This is why I don't associate with you rebels!"
When did I say that???😂
@Hunter Ansorge This is ridiculous 🤣
@Wheelchair Jimmy Define CZcams comment role play!!! We're just having fun until you came with your stupid comment
@Wheelchair Jimmy Yeah, just go away. I think you are probably the disabled one here looking at your name and profile pic. Hope you don't have a family close to you today. Have a good day
P.S: I'm 20 + my day is finished over here😛
The possibility that the villain is right, that their way may actually be the better way but for a matter of personal choice, is what makes them truly terrifying. The original books were written for adult fans of the SW universe, the tv series adaptions are mainly for kids, I can see where they have Thrawn be his charismatic self but they sprinkle in those savage moments to remind the viewer that this is a bad guy and that you should be weary of them. So while a lot of character depth is lost, it does fall perfectly in line with the classic Disney story telling theme.
makes me dislike Disney even more tbh
It's really disappointing how executive decisions can affect a fan favorite. But I'm glad that the canon books do keep Thrawn as is.
@@yankee_0013
Frankly, why?
Star Wars, at its core, has been classical Disney material: damsels in distress, knights and charming rogues setting out to rescue them and fight the evil sorceror king/emperor and his black knight.
@@ohauss they took an amazingly nuanced and well written character and made him just an exceptionally smart but otherwise typical bad guy. I understand and completely agree with Yankee
One of my favorite character establishing moments for Thrawn in Legends was when he was given the opportunity to decide the punishment of a group of classmates who'd been caught bullying and trying to sabotage him. Instead of revenge, Thrawn recommends they be transferred to the Tie fighter and Stormtrooper academies knowing the bullies impulsive aggressive behaviors would allow them to thrive in such environments rather than expelling them or allowing them to become mediocre fleet officers.
That's not Legends, that's from the first of the new Thrawn trilogy released within the new Disney Canon.
@@Comintern1919 huh, thought it was older comic but it's still fitting with legends Thrawn, focusing on the overall objective instead of petty personally matters.
@@ItsAVolcano Well, there is a comic adaption of the first Book, but since the Book is canon so is the Comic. And you are right, Zahn specifically wrote at least the first book in a away that doesn't contradict his old Legends Books. Though the other two new Novels do contradict his Legends works, at least in some ways.
@@Comintern1919 Hey bro i just finished the first thrawn canon book, should i read alliances and treason or they are bad?
@@joaopedrobatistadesouza4428 they’re good
I really wished they hadn't given him pupils in Star Wars Rebels. Not being able to see them makes him harder to read as an opponent and more intimidating. Lobo from DC comics has a similar look that makes him appear less human and predatory. Great attributes for the characters. 😀
Actually he is described in the books as having such pupils. Only artistic renders showed him otherwise. So I understand the choice.
@@The31stcenturyfox did they? They described his eyes as glowing (which is a key feature not shown in Rebels) but that’s all I remember. I believe the reasoning is to make it easier for the audience to see where he’s looking and make an emotional connection... which is the exact opposite of the intent of his original design, lol.
@@Mayakran the eyes glowed, but the pupils were a dark red if I recall. Something rarely shown in artistic renditions at the time. They preferred to show a full red glowing eyes and no pupils. I only know this cause a girl in high school I lent the thrawn books got a major crush on him and read everything in detail so she could recreate him to her best of the ability, when she told me this I baulked and had your reaction since I'd seen the artwork and assumed, but she showed me a line in the books describing his eyes so hence I'll tell you.
@@The31stcenturyfox lol I appreciate it. A crush on Thrawn... huh. I mean I suppose I’m one to talk since I have a bit of whatever you’d call the female equivalent of a mancrush, myself, but I’m also kind of an odd duck (big military history nerd, grew up watching submarine movies, really dig the “competent gentleman commander” as a narrative device, wanted to join the navy at one point, etc). I guess it just didn’t occur to me that a 60+ military commander might catch the eye of a high schooler, lol.
Don't forget that Thrawn had a crew gunner killed for making the same mistake twice. It wasn't necessary, but he ordered the death anyway.
Yes. He was willing to provide those educational moments and give leniency for imperials that were willing to learn. The ones that refused to think outside the box, or the ones that let their egos lead them, those were the few times we actually see Thrawn angry or kill his own people--probably to send a message.
In that regard, I think that the portrayal in Rebels was actually pretty good.
It was necessary. At least with Thrawn, he gives you a second chance. Vader does not. Vader will kill outright."Failure is unacceptable."
@@CHRF-55457 Did you not see the movies? That one admiral in episode 5 he gave 2 or 3 chances before he choked him to death
@@doe6974 Oswel is clumsy as he is stupid. He questions Vader's decisions, he doesn't want to correct his errors. Heck he didn't even see his errors.
He brought the ship too close to Hoth thinking that surprise would scare the rebels into surrender. In turn, prompting them to raise the base shield, forcing Vader to waste time for a ground assault. And Oswel thinks that he's done a fabulous job.
(You've been chasing the rebel scum for 2 years, and you think that doing a surprise "I'm here!" is gonna scare them into submission? 😡😠😡)
That’s legends thrawn canon thrawn is a much nicer person In general
“He doesn’t usually kill his men when he didn’t need to.”
That’s not true. Reread Heir to the Empire. There was a moment where Thrawn was trying to capture Luke via tracker beams. Luke pulls out of the tracker beams and send proton torps in his place. The Torpedos take out the tracker beams and of course Luke jumps to hyperspace. In a classic like Thrawn sense he goes to the tracker beam tech and asks what went wrong. The operator immediately said it wasn’t his fault he wasn’t taught correctly. Thrawn then turned to the supervisor in charge of the operator and questioned him. Thrawn asks the Ensign if he knows the difference between an error and a mistake. The Ensign says no. Thrawn tells the Ensign that anyone can make an error. But that error doesn’t become a mistake until you refuse to correct it. He then signaled Ruhk and had the operator killed right in front of everyone. (Reference chapter 16, page 183-185). So in actually the scene in Rebels plays into the darker side of Thrawn. He has no problem killing people under him or people he oversees (production workers) because if they show no sign of being able to learn then there is no hope in correction.
@MX 3 I agree but it also shows that Thrawn and his mindset is about correction and learning. If you have someone who doesn’t want to see correction or learn, aka the above example or the example within Rebels where factory is being sabotaged, there then remains only one solution to the problem. Get rid of the problem.
I would argue in his eyes he needed to.
@@OrDuneStudios I don’t know what you mean, as in Thrawn had to kill the worker because it was right in his eyes? Or do you mean he needed to do it in order to keep up his own image of how he saw himself?
Either way again I think the killing of the worker on Lothal and the killing of the tracker beam specialist was him doing something logical not emotional. Thrawn said attitude on things is never really emotional. He of course has emotions and if you’ve read the books, he does get annoyed, angry, etc. His actions however are always calculating, always serving a purpose. Which is why I tie it into his own statement about errors and mistakes. If no one can admit error then there’s no room to work with that purpose, the worker is not going to stop being a rebel and halt sabotaging things just because the errors have been pointed out to him. No he’s going to keep doing it and thus excess fat in the system that is doing more harm than good. Trim the fat and the body is more efficient. Kill the worker and the production sabotage stops.
I would also like to add another incident that also takes into the Legend Trilogy (I’m rereading them). In Dark Force Rising in chapters 13 and 16 you have Grand Admiral Thrawn (at the end of chapter 16) have no qualms about killing Khabarakh, a Noghri, for an apparent betrayal to the Empire. The Admirals words to Captain Pellaeon when Thrawn changes the plan for Khabarakh to be placed under prison and interrogation aboard the Chimaera,
“...Khabarakh may still serve the Empire by dying painfully. As an object lesson to his race.” (Page 242, Chapter 16, Dark Force Rising)
This again proves my point that anyone who knows Thrawn understands that he does kill or have people killed in cold calculated times like the Lothal factory and the crew member aboard the Chimaera in Heir ToThe Empire. Such killings are done when believed there is no longer an avenue of correction.
Does he need to kill Khabarakh? No. Killing him is going to turn the Noghri against Thrawn and over to the New Republic, as Leia was hoping for. Killing the tractor beam operator isn’t necessary, especially since the Empire is low on people, especially Stormtroopers as pointed out in the novel. He could have easily been reassigned to a crappy nonessential duty position, cleaning refreshers. Killing the Lothal workers wasn’t really necessary, sending them off to an Imperial prison would just be equally effective. But that isn’t Thrawns style. He doesn’t hesitate to teach and correct. If killing someone corrects inefficient behaviours of others than so be it, there’s always a grand purpose to it. Unlike Vader of course who kills anyone simply because he got angry or that they failed, said or did something that displeased him.
Exactly. Even if you think that Thrawn "had to send a message" in this instance, it was still classic Empire to KILL the operator. He could've simply discarded him or demoted him into a non-technical field. Killing him was sending a message. It doesn't matter that, "To Thrawn" it was necessary. That's the point of alignment, it's DESCRIPTIVE, not PRESCRIPTIVE. You don't get to change the description just because you want to be the hero.
And Thrawn is smart enough to know the distinction. He isn't trying to be a hero. He's being a military leader. And if that means using fear. Well, he's very much aware the Empire was built on enforcing fear. It's a tool, to establish order. Classic Lawful Neutral.
Seeing this pop-up made me smile, I've always loved thrawn and thought he was a pretty good guy.
Honestly if you want the better picture of new Thrawn, Zahn's trilogy that takes place in New canon helps fill the void. Plus the audiobook version is pure bliss with who narrates Thrawns voice
The new thrawn trilogy made me fall in love with thrawn as a character, the idea of someone who is so powerful because of how smart he is and also how misunderstood he is by everyone is so interesting. He calculates everything and the callbacks that get made to earlier decisions are very satisfying.
Couldn’t agree more -that distinctive calm voice is classic.
Marc Thompson is his name, and he narrates a ton of Star Wars audiobooks. His narration is so good I have a hard time listening to anyone else lol
I'd say lawful neutral (he's a "for the greater good" kind of guy)
Ah, so a tau
No doubt, lawful neutral
@@dragonusprime4092 my thoughts exactly. Haha
Plus, same color as them too.
Haha
Lawful neutral was my thought as well. He's not sadistic, and he does some good things... but he does some bad things too, and at the bottom line, he actively supports a system that is pretty clearly Lawful Evil on multiple levels. A genuinely LG character would, at the very least, become a kind of 'loyal opposition' in that environment: trying to change it for the better from the inside via peaceful means, if not via more forceful means. Thrawn seems to be perfectly content with the Empire being what it is as long as it's stable and as long as those he cares about aren't the ones who are getting hurt. That's pretty much classic LN. He's a representative of Imperial officers who may not strictly be evil themselves, but still implicitly accept it.
@@Draxynnic a lawful good character (Leia, Mon Mothma) would and could absolutely oppose the Empire without being loyal opposition (even though they spent time in loyal opposition). Being LG doesn't mean that you support an evil system blindly.
Like older Prussian-style officers in the Wehrmacht, it’s not about who you are, it’s about who you work for.
Well most of those people were also Nazis and were very much on board with the Holocaust. The regular German military was very closely involved in the Holocaust and refusing genocidal orders was extremely rare for these officers.
@Darth Xen SHow me a government that is not imperialistic.. Every human government since the dawn of humanity works the same.
@@steezburger609 dude, you´re just wrong, greetings from germany
@@steezburger609
"The regular German military" was highly diverse. And let's not forget that the rank and file near the end of the war was composed of young people who had spent much of their "education" under Nazi indoctrination. The Nazis didn't come to power in 1939, let alone in 41, but in 33. Primal Guy specifically referred to older Prussian-style officers, however. . "The regular German military" has little relevance to "older Prussian-style officers".Several of them were demissioned before '39 in disagreements with Hitler. Others joined the military resistance, some sooner, some later. Others supported Hitler to the end Many were perfectly fine with a war of expansionist aggression, but considered Hitler's way to go about it haphazard and dangerous. Others were already appalled by the lawlessness of the "Night of long knives".
And the point Primal_Guy wanted to make, I think, is that even if they did not support every policy, inasmuch as they were part of the machinery, they share in the responsibility.
@@steezburger609 the military was the source of the numerous (14 confirmed, 41 rumored) assassination attempts on Hitler. True, there were a lot of men who were “on board,” but there was a great deal of tension between the old, aristocratic leadership, and the “upstart” Nazis (not to mention the fact that the Nazis invented their own military branch in the Waffen SS and that didn’t sit well with the old command).
_"There's no good or evil, just many shades of grey."_
50 shades of grey to be prosaic.
Thrawn is one of my favourite Imperial officers
Hes a grand admiral lol
@@joekush9095 Do you realize that Grand Admiral is an officers Rank in the Imperial Navy?
@@thedoctorss69 I don't really know how navy ranking goes so my bad
Thrawn could be plenty cold and cruel in the books too. In "Heir to the Empire," he has a transporter beam ensign killed so brutally the book refuses to even describe it, and that was for a fairly minor error. He also casually mentions wiping out an entire species because doing his usual analysis of them would've taken too long. He doesn't take much pleasure in it - nor, I think, does he enjoy doing it in Rebels - but it's certainly not out of character for him. The only scene in which he breaks that cold pragmatism is when he snarls at Slavin. I'll admit that was a bit unusual for him - probably the reason the show didn't do so twice - but the man insulted art. Nobody insults art to Thrawn.
That is true, but in the books he never lost his temper. Ever. He was always cool, calm, and collected, even when his bodyguard turned on him and literally murdered him. Disney Thrawn loses his temper over some art (I know he loves his art, but legends Thrawn would never lose his temper over something so trivial as some ignorant, mediocre imp insulting a piece of art. That is trivial, and Thrawn is anything but.
Not so much "minor error" as "trying to pass the blame".
Thrawn COULD simply walk into Mordor, and I would follow him.
Thrawn is my second favorite character after fives
And also thrawn in the thrawn novels and thrawn ascendancy are both so much better than rebels thrawn
a lot of things is a much better outside rebels...
@@badgamemaster the sad thing is that it's a kid's show. Due to the various perceptions and stigmas, you are severely limited at what you can and can't do...
Whose your favorite
@@Jack-sp8nw fives.
You have good taste in characters.
I want to see this man fight the Grysk with his fellow Chiss.........
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Thrawn is lawful neutral at best, and arguably lawful evil. Good video, as usual, thanks.
You might want to read the original Heir to the Empire series again; forcing that factory worker to ride a speeder that he sabotaged causing his own death was perfectly in line with Thrawn's character.
If Filoni decides to include Thrawn and the Chiss in the Ashoka show then he better let Zahn write those episodes/advice over it. As much as I love the man, it’s become obvious that he’ll rewrite parts of canon and disregard preexisting parts of canon (ie: Ahsoka novel and Kanen comics). I loved reading the thrawn books and exploring the chiss (in the ascendancy novels), and the last thing I’d want is for them to be decanonised especially after how much work I’m sure went into them.
Rebels didn't make me hate Thrawn for me just saying.
"This has been a terrible year"
Instant thumbs up
Thrawn killed the tractor beam engineer who failed to capture lukes x-wing.
But promoted the other one who also failed but actually tried something clever.
@@thrawncaedusl717 Yeah but it shows that Thrawn is not above doing cruel things-its just not something he does for the sake of it like Sith lords or Tarkin. He prefers to do things with as little bloodshed and as little inefficiency as possible.
@DeadNinjutsu I know that's my point. Thrawn isn't cruel for the sake of cruelty. He is methodical. If he does something cruel-he has a good rational reason for it-even if its something morally wrong.
@@shadowthehedgehog3113 he’s cruel but fair
reason for it was trying to throw blame onto another.
Alan: Thrawn is not evil
Rebels: hi... now he is...
Jokes aside, I hope that he isn't just becoming another villain... it would be boring as hell...
Rebels pretty much did that.
@@lkvideos7181 Certain character depth was lost, but he still sticks out, as there is no one like him in Star Wars anyway. Besides, Thrawn will likely become better in other media not so suited to young children.
@@iamyuheismi920 I felt like Rebels even dumbed him down in terms of strategic prowess. Like he did nothing extraordinary, just seemed more competent than your avarage imperial officer. Which could apply to any of the 12 Grand Admirals. In the new novels Thrawn stands out because he is pretty much genius level tactician and constantly gives great off the cuff advice to his allies.
Yes, please don’t give us “creepy blue Moff Gideon 2.0”
Yeah the rebels version was a bit meh but the three canon novels set in the rebels univers are incredible and bring back the old thrawn
Too damn true. He is the best tactician in starwars and second only to Palpatine as a stratigist .
Second?
@@coreyeverett5500 maybe second to prequels palpatine, but not to OT palpatine...
I actually kinda figured they just went a little over the top to show Thrawn as only really pissed off by someone destroying art, (and potential intelligence, therefore.)
Anyone else want a Chiss Ascendancy movie or even show? I would love to hear suggestions on when it would take place and who the Chiss would be battling!
It would have to be some sort of frontier conflict, kinda like the American Indian Wars. Maybe they could bring back the Vong, or some other barbarians.
@@konstantinosnikolakakis8125 The grysks are the substitute for the vong
I never thought Thrawn was evil. He's a really competent career officer who believes in law and order. A lot of the time tactics don't make much sense in star wars but the way he was written by Zahn was a classic case of someone outwitting an opponent in a believable way.
I think what happened is Dave Filoni needed to push an “obviously evil” antagonist. Not to mention, all of the shows are built to show the “good guys” as heroic freedom fighters, and not the terrorists that they are.
Oh so it was the Rebels who blew up Alderaan.
@@stormhawk4277 They made the mining accident inevitable.
@Stormhawk 427 The empire might’ve sacrificed Alderan, but it was the rebels who blew up 2 whole death stars. Three including starkiller bass if you want to get technical. So who are the real terrorists????
@@therealdaredevil7504 Both.
@@therealdaredevil7504 The rebels are the reason Ewoks are extinct.
Thrawn should have been put in charge of the entire Imperial Military
his specialty is Space tactics, so maybe of the fleet. I would leave ground forces to veers.
@@biggsdarklighter0473 fair
You forget that Thrawn changed in style somewhat after taking over the remnants of the Empire. He answered directly to the Emperor, after all.
@DeadNinjutsu true, but I was making a different observation. He gains "humanity" (to the reader) as the trilogy progresses. Before we even meet him, his seasoned underlings know that he isn't merely cruel, just a demanding commander; he gains a reputation to those on the outside because they're observing from the outside. And I would argue that he allows that reputation to flourish because it benefits him in Palatine's empire. And it continues to benefit him from a Machiavellian sense when he ascends to control the Remnant. It's better to rule by fear, as they say, but the reality is that he manages to rule by both love AND fear in the appropriate circumstances. His troops grow to love him and are fiercely loyal because he does not throw their lives away needlessly. He WILL make the hard choices. He WILL sacrifice them. But he WILL NOT do so needlessly and because of his skill, their sacrifices would not be in vain.
Thrawn is the paragon embodiment of command.
I've always kinda thought of myself as an Empire kind of guy, but never knew where i could fit in.
Serving under Thrawn would be ideal.
You just convinced me to buy the Thrawn books (my first ever Star Wars books). Merry Christmas
I always liked Thrawn and never saw him as a bad guy. His portrayal in Rebels was uncharacteristic, if you ask me.
Thrawn is the best.Hes a literal tactical genius who you would find hard to hate.
I sometimes hear the term 'Anti-Hero' & I typically think of The Dark Knight. I think I understand the concept. But I have a question. Is there such a thing as an 'Anti-Villain' or is it basically the same as an Anti-Hero? If so, would this apply to Thrawn? In Dungeons & Dragons, Lawful Evil was defined as still inherently evil, but nevertheless still followed certain moral codes & restrictions. Not going hog wild like Chaotic or Natural Evil would & simply not giving a shit.
An anti-villain is a term for a villain who is like an anti-hero’s alternate.
@@hellfire286 In other words, another tortured soul in need of professional counseling..... I get it 😉👍
Antihero has hero like goals but sometimes has immoral means to get there.
Anti-villain is someone that does morally correct actions but sometimes not for the right reasons.
@@hightower2141 I think it’s more of the other way around
I think in dnd terms thrawn would lawful neutral
That’s how Dave destroyed Grievous. I hope he doesn’t do the same for Thrawn. Grievous was sooooooo much more interesting and just a better character in legends.
Totally. I remember reading the first chapter of the episode III novelization, that one paragraph where Matthew Stern decribes Grievous as an actual and ruthless monster, then seeing that portrayed flawlessly by Tartakovsky in his cartoon... and then seeing Grievous reduced to a comic relief element by Filoni.
I really respect Filoni... but he seems to have some problems handling villains from time to time.
@@peskymacaw9033 TCW Grievous may not have been as capable of his Legends counterpart, but to call him "comic relief" when he was still portrayed as a genuine threat at times with notable kills under his belt even as early as Season 1 is completely untrue. His TCW self is also more in line with how Lucas presented him in Revenge of the Sith, wherein Windu makes his track record apparent by describing him as a coward who runs and hides and making him too capable when he had several run-ins with Obi-Wan would've been inconsistent towards their dialogue and duel in Episode III.
The element where Filoni fails with his character isn't his battle capabilities, but with his depth and motivations. Grievous was, from his inception, meant to be a proto-Vader of sorts in his appearance/bodily flaws and the tragic elements of his Legends backstory reflect this with his lost love interest. Filoni Grievous, meanwhile, is a one-dimensional villain who only wants to become stronger.
@@peskymacaw9033 I believe George Lucas is primarily responsible for the way General Grievous was characterized. George essentially said he wanted him to represent the classic Saturday cartoon villain, and describes him as someone who at his core, is a coward.
This characterization also matches up better with his movie appearance and that is why he is portrayed differently than the 2003 series. While Filoni is responsible for a lot of the clone wars, I feel George’s involvement and the fact that he created the show is often overlooked.
Even Darth Vader is more interesting and complex in Legends that the New Canon. He cares about his men, even befriends one Imperial Officer who's not a complete ass like most of them are and even objects to slavery once or twice.
@@fireblaze1580 I do not only mean the 2003 version. He was a very good character in all his legends books and comics. Literally in every single media besides clone wars and ep3. Now in canon media (he doesn’t get anything new at all sadly) it’s also shit. They completely ruined this character that could even have a movie or series dedicated to his backstory that would definitely be so successful if done right cuz he was well written once.
Merry Christmas to all of you reading this!
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Thrawn's savage behavior and almost psychopathic dedication could be attributed quite easily to the fact that he was young. By time of Heir To The Empire, he was older, much more mature. Yes he displayed his later mindset when he was younger but it hadnt fully developed yet.
He’s so brutally effective that the war is mercifully short
Hopefully Thrawn doesnt make it to the big screen, for sure Disney will turn him into an Emperor Palpatine from the Squeal Trilogy.
Idk, judging from what we have, he'll most likely end up in the Ahsoka series and that's Filoni.
@Samuel McNair tbf Lucas did that himself with rots... Filoni could have redeemed him. But he's done better with Thrawn.
I think the reason for Thrawns portrayal in Rebels is Disney's mandate of "kids are dumb. Keep every character simple and purely good or bad"
He work for the Empire, you know one ruled by a Megalomaniac Sith as an Admiral...it's not a position for nice or good person, being a sociopathic bastard seem one of the job necessity
From a certain point of view. Thrawn was a "big picture" individual. If working for the Empire meant the survival or betterment of the Chiss he would do it. Main reason he didnt side with the Rebellion or New Republic, in the EU, was they were too inefficient and decentralized. The Empire, despite its many faults, was not that. Plus Thrawn went out of his way to use only enough force as was neccessary to end a conflict swiftly
@@erieperry8241 and it show how much a big idiot was; honestly the Empire will have not lasted 6 months against the Vong under Palpy and Vader as it was a mass of incompetent, backstabbing, fearfull and ill trained mooks and the bulk of the budget go to superduper megaweapons...that a single starfighter destroy. Really just that will have made understand how idiotic was Palpy.
@@lukedalton But Thrawn is very much not a sociopathic bastard, nor is every single Imperial Officer or higher Rank, neither in Legends nor in the new Canon.
I recommend the new Thrawn Trilogy by Zahn, the original creator of Thrawn. They are Canon and show a much deeper side to Thrawns Character.
Fortunately Theawn had his own empire in the Unknown Regions, the Empire of the Hand. Plus when he came bck to the Empire, the Remnant had little choice but to follow him and his style of command if they wanted to keep their power and/or stay alive. Thrawn saw the Empire as a resource to use against the Vong rather then a true believer.
Greetings. I am Grand Admiral Thrawn. I have viewed this video about my exploits with great interest. Your attention to detail and analysis is commendable. Your insights into my strategies and tactics are quite perceptive. I have enjoyed this video immensely. Thank you for your tribute to my achievements.
In a recent Thrawn novel, he wins a 1v3 ISD battle...without casualties....on either side....while on the bridge of the enemy flagship...
Csilla - the Planet where Thrawn was born - btw is a Hungarian female name, a shorter version of the word Csillag, which means Star in the Hungarian language.
Cool fact
Thrawn was done dirty in the Rebels series IMO, the writers made him seems more villainous to fill a role and much less astute than his legends counter part.
I too share your affinity and zeal regarding Thrawn.
Perhaps his (rather that) anger spat was an artistic mechanism to communicate that Thrawn lives on another level.
A level that peers see the staircase upwards, but themselves decline their own betterment. But, are the more endeared to him for it.
I recognized that music at the beginning
Yes, I agree with this assessment. I'm hoping Thrawn is more like his book appearances, both legends and canon. I became intrigued by him because of Rebels, but fell in love with the character after reading the canon novels. I have yet to dive into his legends stories.
Grand Admiral Thrawn has never been evil.
Same thing with Count Dooku in Clone Wars. He was the ultimate grey force user, not a jedi nor sith.
But in Clone Wars he's like: Haha lightsaber go swoom.
Thanks for the Christmas special and wish you all the best for 2021.
1,000th like, Thrawn is easily the best "villan" in star wars even though he's got probably the most just reason for the empire.
You just spoke what's been brewing in my heart for years! I was especially repulsed by their portrayal of Thrawn threatening to open fire on Lothal to draw out the rebels.
In his own words, "I encounter civilians like you all the time. You believe the Empire is continually plotting to do harm. Let me tell you, your view of the Empire is far too dramatic. The Empire is a government. It keeps billions of beings fed and clothed. Day after day, year after year, on thousands of worlds, people live their lives under Imperial rule without seeing a stormtrooper or hearing a TIE fighter scream overhead."
Couldn’t agree more, my first introduction to Thrawn was the new trilogy + ascendancy, I would argue he’s even more lawful good in this one than the Legends books so seeing how he was in Rebels when I finally watched was a shocker.
Merry Christmas, old buddy. may the force and god's love be with you and yours, always.
What about when Thrawn killed one of his officers in the original Thrawn Trilogy
I know there was the time an officer made a mistake, but quickly tried to fix the situation and Thrawn congratulated him for his quick thinking.
There was a different officer that one time made a mistake and he then killed that officer because it was a really stupid mistake
When?
@@paulinak8124 if I remember correctly in “heir to the empire”
Thrawn didn’t kill him directly, but had Ruhk kill him instead
@@knightwolf1866 OK, thanks. Now I remember.
@@knightwolf1866 Thrawn had him killed not because he made a mistake but because he tried to pass the blame and say oh I wasn't taught correctly. As Thrawn accurately said An error becomes a mistake only when you refuse to correct it. And I can see why he did it. That kind of arrogance is very dangerous to have in a battle situation and has the potential to get everyone else killed. Granted I probably would have just kicked him out but I can understand why Thrawn did what he did. There is NO I in Team.
@@chrishess5526 thank you for the clarification
It had been a little while since I had read those books
I was watching a eck's thrawn video when this showed up. ( The edit is for spelling)
Love his character too. I know for a fact that after becoming Grand Admiral he took care of the Dolphin threat on any planet he came in contact with. As he should. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
Outstanding video, great job!
Thrawn is the the one non human that I'm okay with
I feel as if he was to rule the empire from the start there would never be a rebellion
I think he’s a bit easier to connect with and believe if he messes up and strays from his MO sometimes. He has more depth if he isn’t always existing within his bounds. Plus, it’s good to appreciate the fact that he is the one villain who doesn’t seem to consistently lose
this is one of ur better ones man. merry christmas!
I'm happy that Filoni included Thrawn, wasn't happy with the complete portrayal until your video! ;)
My step-dad took me to see the special editions in theaters. It was great, didn't age well tho.
I read the new book introducing Thrawn in current cannon before I watched Rebels, and I’m glad I did. In one of the first scenes where you see him, it’s mentioned that Thrawn is responsible for a huge number of civilian casualties in a recent battle. The book shows how he would take great pains to avoid civilian casualties, and that it was governor Price that was really responsible for the massacre. The book highlighted that Thrawn was highly efficient in carrying out his duties, but kind of blind to the social aspects of climbing the ladder. Price is ruthlessly ambitious, and so she kind of helps him ascend the hierarchy while simultaneously using him for her own prestige. I would have watched that scene assuming that Thrawn is bloodthirsty without the book. Since I read it, that scene plays out as him reluctantly taking credit because it’s advantageous to his goal of being ingratiated to the emperor.
Have a merry Christmas Generation Tech and I hope we all have a better year coming
I wonder how will Dave Filoni have Galen Marek potrayed then. I heard that Marek almost made it into the Rebels series but the idea ultimately got scrapped. Heck, even Dave Filoni himself felt bad that it got scrapped. Andn ow that you mentioned it, Alan. How fast the New Republic will fall if the Yuuzhang Vong invade before the First Order?
Probably will happen the same thing, the First Order are very generic villain you can change it with the Vong and basically the story is the same
Ive read all of the new cannon thrawn books.thrawn,thrawn alliances,thrwan treason,thrawn acendency
I agree completely! Merry Christmas to one and all!
I was half expecting another ending scene where Thrawn would come back into play
In Rebel's tho I like how Thrawn never truly lost. His true opponents were The Bendu and Nature (Space Whales). The Rebellion got lucky both times keeping Thrawn at Bay.
First! And of course great video! Thrawn is one of my favorite characters.
3:38 just realized that there's an existing chance that the Temple guard mask seen here would have been bought from Luthen's store, Thrawn certainly seems to fit in the target group of the actual store
Awesome video .
And
Awesome points & lessons about the evils of either or arguments and pure evil vs pure good perception of individuals .
Of course he isn’t. He works for an evil organization but him himself isn’t rlly evilz
To be fair things were never really "good" in the galaxy. The Republic can be argued as evil and as can the Empire. They can also both be argued as good. Nothing and no one are ultimately good or bad.
@@river7757 True, even the Rebels and Jedi were a lot less noble than they appear in the films.
@@river7757 True. Although I feel like groups such as the Empire and the Hutts monopolized much of the evil. The Republic and Jedi were "bad" mainly due to ignorance or turning a blind eye to the damage they caused. I suppose it depends on which sort of "evil" you would want to live under: Incompetent leadership and ignorance(Republic/Jedi) or crippling order(Empire/Sith). Or if there is another option that hasn't been explored yet.
@@awakenow7147 Very true. In my opinion no group should be allowed to reign over a galaxy of people. Inevitably any group to rule over a galaxy would have massive amounts of corruption. To be fair I have no idea or solution to *not* having an overarching government. Linking the planets would be problematic with out a government such as that, but I'm not a politician so someone else can come up with a solution.
@@river7757 Yeah good point. A galactic republic is kind of a strange idea. Even a supposed republic like the U.S. has big problems...and we're just a single landmass.
You may want to take a second look at the Thrawn Trilogy, particularly what he has done to a tractor beam operator that failed stupidly. He had no compunctions against killing his own men when they acted stupidly enough, just as he later rewarded initiative when another tractor beam operator tried to solve a problem and failed.
Thrawn in the books is merciless and pragmatic, operating with limited resources and conserving every resource he can get. In the show, he has a solid logistics train and a constant supply of new troops. He also needs to appease his Sith Emperor, and acts appropriately.
Plus, and this is a thing from the books, Sidious was directly coordinating the entire Imperial War Machine through the Dark Side of the Force. Having a Dark Side Master plugged into one's hindbrain 24/7 is likely to make anyone testy, and as a Grand Admiral on the front lines, Thrawn would have had a particularly strong connection made by Sidious. Thus his more aggressive actions and expressions in the show. Others would have had slightly less intrusive connections, and thus were less obviously affected.
Well yes he killed his own troops how ever that person had made the same mistake a few times before he had Ruhk kill them
@@georgejones9526 No, it was someone that messed up badly enough to damage his own ship once out of lazy stupidity; when Luke broke a Tractor Beam lock and launched a Proton Torpedo to be caught in his place before escaping, the moron didn't confirm what he was locked on to before pulling the armed warhead into the ship. A moment to confirm things would have avoided serious damage and saved his life, but the incident was the first time said idiot came under Thrawn's direct notice.
@@Jacen32272 really I'm sure it happened twice, I must of misremembered things it's been a while since I last read the Thrawn trilogy
@@georgejones9526 There was a second incident where Luke escaped a Tractor Beam Lock. and Thrawn went down to investigate the operator in the third book. However, the one killed was in the first book; the second time, Luke used what was essentially a chaff cloud to break the lock, and the operator tried (and failed) to clear the chaff using the tractor beam to push it out of the way. Thrawn had him promoted on the spot for his initiative, because it was better to do something then nothing, and because he at least tried instead of just being lazy like the dead man.
Great video man, love Thrawn and completely agree with you. He’s in my top 5 characters. Happy Holidays ✌🏻
Timothy Zahn is involved in the new Ahsoka series, so hopefully that will mean Thrawn will act more like he does in the books.
Allen did a little clickbait, Thrawn was never “good.” He was Lawful, but even evil people can care for their troops. Evil can have compassion too. Thrawn was perhaps a “Neutral” character, but time and again he used deceit, sacrifices, and the death of thousands to further the goals of the post Emperor Empire. He was loyal to Palpatine and the Empire long after he needed to be.
I think this version of Thrawn is more his own person than a named plot device. Showing emotion is fine, I do think killing the technician was over the top, but the show needed him to be more “evil.” Since you know, our hero Ezra does a ton of unjust murder himself.
It was also to weed out whoever was sabotaging the bikes, you won't sabotage what you have to use.
@@FallenRingbearer Thrawn didn't kill the rebel he merely assisted in that rebels suicide
He remains my favorite character in the STAR WARS franchise.
He's the Sun Tzu of STAR WARS.
Whether it's in the old Expanded Universe or New Canon.
In the books is more Gary Tzu due to him being Zhan favorite; rebels make him a more credible character
Come on, no Sun Tzu. He is trivial. Rather Clausewitz
I love your perspective!
I would say that the sacrifice of the traitor is a tactically genius move: He took care of one old, ineffective traitor who was better of dead than spreading secrets to the rebels. Also he killed only one man, not sending the whole team to their death (looking at you director Krenic)
hi there fellow person scrolling through the comments
Hello There 👋
Oh, hi
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Greetings, Program!
Thrawn is not evil
Bombards an entire city just to get one person to surrender
He did that because Palpatine threatened him with death for his lack of loyality to the Empire.
And to be fair from the Empire’s perspective, the Rebels were terrorists. They disrupted communications and transport while smuggling in contraband.
@@justinpachi3707 On the other hand the empire is basically destroying their planet to extract resources and use the population as slave labor, but one must also consider that bully really really take it personal when someone fight back
@@darkwolf4434 Nobody forced him to join the Empire or to remain on the Empire armed forces...receiving death threat by your boss (if he is a Sith or Tarkin or someone else) it's just a perk of the job in the Galactic Empire
@@justinpachi3707 Yeah, but he also argued that he joined the Empire in order to stand against the Grysk.
Happy Holidays, Allen
my favorite empire character
Thrawn is the second best space fascist. I'd like to see his Empire separate from the First Order.
Seeing the Empire of the Hand would certainly be a treat.
commenting after reading only the video title: Thrawn was never evil!
EDIT after watching: filonis thrawn is not the Thrawn.
He kinda is. I think people have a bit of an overly rosy colored view of Thrawn. The idea that ANY iteration of Thrawn is lawful GOOD is laughable. Thrawn is at best lawful neutral. Being an admiral in the Empire alone means you're not the "good guy". Thrawn has also committed atrocities too. He is just not as cruel and vindictive as most imperials (especially Tarkin) and prefers not to kill but will not hesitate to do so if its necessary for the stability of the Empire. In Rebels though-many seem to think he was portrayed as a cartoonish villain but I disagree. He was nowhere near as evil as most of the imperials the Rebels dealt with. He was the main antagonist because he was so strategically intelligent and was able to best the rebels when other incompetent Moffs and commanders got clowned on by them. When Thrawn came in-you knew shit was gonna get serious.
Very good content! Not clickbait and very thought provoking
my first exposure to Thrawn was rebels, he didn't stand out much, after a few months I forgot he existed, it wasn't until I started to find screen shot of Thrawn comic or hearing people talk about his actions in his novels that I became interested in him
Rebels is a kids shows, so having a sophisticated antagonist with depth would probably confuse the paint sniffing kids watching it.
Lol🤣
Even though he did suffer a momentary loss of temper, he he quickly composed himself, apologized, and explained to the idiot what was going on. Even if it did give us a super tiny glimpse of how, though blue with red eyes, he was as human as every one around him. Just better.
I too hope to see more of this character..in greater depth.
"Anyone can make an error, But that error doesn't become a mistake until you refuse to correct it.”
Thank you for this.