Are Plug-in Hybrids Utterly Pointless?
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- čas přidán 16. 06. 2022
- Plug-in hybrids give you the best of both worlds: electric-only, zero-emissions motoring, plus the reassurance of a long range. But if you use them incorrectly they can be absolutely awful. Rory explains why.
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Definitely depends on your lifestyle and the trips you normally make. My PHEV gets me to work and back and takes care of 95% of my journeys. If I do go on a longer trip, I don't have to worry about charging. For me, it is the right choice!
Same here. All trips to the office and/or the city are mostly covered by EV mode, and if I go further, I have the petrol engine. I don't really charge the batteries "outside" (if I drive 700 km, there's not much use of having 50 km on electricity). Only when I was in Alps this winter, I have charged the battery once there, to not have the car parked with empty batt for a week and in minus temperatures. To be added, I have a solar power-plant at home. So PHEV is super for me! But as said in the video, not for everyone.
@Marketing Maverick If you can disclose what EV do you own? Thanks.
I have a 2017 Chevy Volt PHEV. When the battery depletes, I'm actually driving in hybrid mode which give some better gas mileage than the equivalent Chevy Cruze from which the Volt is based. I get about 37 mpg after the battery is exhausted
@@dropshot8840 That proves the fact that the Volt second generation is a parallel hybrid: when battery is depleted both the motor and engine cooperate in propelling front wheels giving very good gas mileage. On the contrary first generation Volt is a serial hybrid: the engine is running as a generator charging the battery, the latter one giving electricity for the motor which is the only one propelling front wheels. Besides you can use regular gasoline while first generation requires premium. You have the fifth sit while first generation is a strict 4 seater. The first generation is a sedan. The second generation is a lift-back. What I hate about your Volt is very crippled fifth seat in the middle of the back seat, lack of windshield wiper in the back as well as very low ground clearance.
The efficiency of first generation was not quite good in both EV and “hybrid”=generator=range extender mode. I always was thinking the powertrain of second generation Volt should have been transplanted in Equinox making one of the greatest vehicle GM could have built.
We can now charge EV battery 80% in 18 minutes.
In 2023 and moving forward, PHEV isn't appealing anymore...
I've had my A Class PHEV for over two years and it is perfect for my lifestyle. I get around 40 miles from the battery in the summer, less in the winter, but charge every 2-3 days. The petrol engine is normally only used on the motorway and the regeneration tops up the battery every time I slow down. It is a great stepping stone to full EV.
Snap for my CLA 250e. Although my commute to work is 30 there and back so i do charge everyday at work for free but i only ever use petrol engine for long journeys and usually only fill it up once every two months.
But you spend 100% of the time dragging around a 4 cylinder engine with you. Imagine, having a huge engine in your back pocket every time you went for a walk down to the shops. Well that's you that is.
@@norwegianzound WELL SAID THESE CLOWNS DONT SEE THAT all they see is FREE MOTORING MUPPET MOBILES
@@norwegianzound BEV cars carry all the time massive weight...
you got it at the right time. It is a great stepping stone especially in current time with the given infrastructure
I have a plug in hybrid, and its been a great experience. Picking up kids on all electric, hybrid for long distance. 600+ miles per fill up.
Which real life example car - get 18miles to the gallon (mid-size SUV number) with a 8.8 gallon tank (Toyota Aygo)? This is just silliness to make a propaganda to buy BEV…
I fill my panamera turbo S hybrid every few months…. Last time I filled was 2/9/24
I love my PHEV. I have a Audi Q5e, and its perfect for me. I live and work in a city, and charge every 1-2 days. My commute is 12 miles round trip, and a couple times a month i take a 50 mile drive. I fill up my tank every 5-6 months. its incredible, and i really like having the flexibility to fill up when needed.
You could do all of that with a BEV and not have the added mechanical complexity and maintenance of of an internal combustion engine.
You should never fill up your tank then. Extra weight that you just carry around for nothing. Plus petrol it depreciate in 3-6 months
If you never drive more than 50 miles then any modern EV will easily surpass your needs. You won't need to drag around an ICE engine and a tank full of unused petrol.
@@andreiarama8745🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
If you only drive 50 miles per week in a huge Q5 why not buy an electric smaller car. Cheaper to buy and run ?
Moral of the story: Like many things in life, know your usage/habits and do your research for what makes sense for your context. With cars, if you're predisposed to any "genre" of car, go for it, just know what you're getting into :) Great vid
Well.. yes. If I´ve bought a dinghy to go around the globe, that would be also silly, innit? Phevs are for certain conditions, not for all of them. Lik thee most of vehicles..
There’s no hope for me…… here’s the range of vehicles and there positioning and usage:
AMG GLA45 - used for most journeys under five miles. Average fuel consumption at that 22mpg. Drive the one mile needed to dodge the rain in winter and it’s 13mpg.
Boat (quite big) - used for 20-30 mile round trips on day running (and yes I’ve had a dinghy but not taken it round the globe). 2 mpg. Actually very efficient for what it is. 7 litres per hour at 7 knots and 55 litres per hour at 16 knots.
Motorbike - yes a hardly used toy. Covid put paid to those European trips. 58mpg about once per month.
So, will I be going electric. Not a chance for the next five years. It’s all rapidly changing and out dating technology. Now where did I put that grumpy old git badge…
*know your usage/habits and do your research for what makes sense for your context*
Sitting here across the pond, this is one of the most outrageous parts of American consumerism. Literally NO ONE I know has a hybrid or PHEV. EV, yes..but only one has a non-Tesla.
@@PhilbyFavourites Brilliant!
I have an A3 with 35 mile battery range. Had it a year and currently sat at 7800 miles and 123mpg. That has included some long distance driving where I got 53mpg on a full charge over 250 miles and 42mpg with an empty battery for the same distance. I charge it everyday and it is perfect for my family and short commutes etc. For me, it is a stepping stone to full EV and a great option for local commutes and even the odd long distance.
Honestly don't understand why ppl just don't buy a vehicle with decent mpg to begin with?
Seems like its working for you though!
But you didn't get 123mpg because you're discounting the battery usage. They needs to be added in, which I know is not easy to calculate.
I have similar car that’s doing 60km per charge, drove it 10,000 kilometres already
i calculate all (with the electric costs) so far
its 2.3L/100km (102mpg)
i drive 50 km a day (work)
but i did alot of long driving - 2000km ones on petrol
its perfect..
you just need to have a place to charge it everyday
@Chris Hardling obviously wfh, short work commute or you get a train to work then?
@Chris Hardling Makes sense Chris.
We're still running with 2 x diesels.
Both 55mpg, paid off.
Wife full time wfh. My commute a 6 mile round trip.
Until either dies, we'll not get any BEV or hybrid. Despite rising fuel costs, it doesn't offer enough value for money in buying a new or even decent 2nd hand 'green' car at the moment.
Perhaps 2025-26 lol
PHEV are a necessary option because you can make 4x the cars with the same battery materials. Also the way PHEV are used is better for the proper charge/discharge of the battery. If you find an employer that allows you to charge from an outlet at work, you don’t even need to plug in at home. Most peoples long drives will be few and far between, usually for vacation, and who wants to wait to charge a battery at that time when you could just gas up and go. PHEVs are brilliant.
my man got it right ! i got the 300DE and its fucking great charge at work zoom around town dont use a drop of Diesel. But when i wanna drive 500km i just go no waiting no charge bullshit ect ect i take 300kg extra weight for all the upside it gets me
I wouldn't bet on free charging at work, my workplace stopped that already and are charging €5/hour if you keep your car plugged in for more than 3 hours
Exactly. Plug in hybrids should be the concept pushed by the government instead of pure EVs. It would be nice if they were actually EVs primarily with a gas generator backup though. Many use the gas engine sometimes even when there is EV range. It won't be easy to produce enough batteries for 2 billion cars if most have EV ranges above 200 miles. It will also cause a lot of environmental problems that somewhat defeat the purpose of the cars.
@@JosephHowes2003 Not every chemistry has cobalt. LFP batteries have no rare materials.
I have a Model 3, and I have traveled with it numerous times. It charges fast. You never fill it. There is a big difference between charging at 40-50kw and 150-200. Half the time, it's ready before I am.
PHEV is the perfect vehicle for single car owner. There's absolutely no range anxiety. Its perfect short trip and long trip car. You can go anywhere and dont have to worry about where to plug in or where to put gas. Sure youre lugging some unused weight but instead of buying 2 cars and maintain both and insure both, you can do just one.
Many people who buy EVs as a second car find they spend most of their time in the EV over the ICE. Couples often end up getting rid of their ICE cars even when they have two to start with. They swap one for an EV then find they both want the EV so they get rid of the ICE and get a second EV. PHEVs just aren't necessary.
@trevorberridge6079 they are if you have a company car, have to tow a caravan and don't want a BIK that make selling a kidney the cheaper option. I would much rather have full BEV as a tow car, but unless you can afford a second mortgage, they don't currently exist. By the way, I currently drive a Tesla model 3 LR. I am gutted to be selling it, and it is the only BEV I would currently buy, until Tesla completely shoot themselves in the foot and open uo all of the Superchargers.
did you watch the video?
PHEVs aren't good at all for long distance.Just city driving, might as well get an EV then
@sorinelpustiu5674 I own a honda clarity. All my local drivings are on EV. All my road trips are on gas. I could care less if I ran out of battery and can't find a place to charge. Gas is cheaper than public charger here in CA. I dont have to waste my time waiting to charge up an EV. The only advantage of an EV over phev is the range between charges.
@@CL-nj3zs and if there's a natural disaster that requires an evacuation, you don't have to wait in line with thousands of other EV for that 20 minute charge. I don't understand why people don't get that there are different use-cases. a PHEV is not right for everyone, a BEV is not right for everyone.
Me, I want a PHEV.
A common complaint about PHEVs is, "You'r dragging around the EV & Battery (or ICE) when you are using ice ICE (or EV) mode." On the flip side, EVs drag around a 1000 lb battery when you mostly drive less than 40 miles per day. Love the teddy shirt :)
You’re not really dragging it if it’s always able to contribute should you want to go further - speaking from a range point of view. Where the dragging comes into play is with inefficiency (adding larger batteries to go further instead of more efficient ones), or if it’s a performance car and the weight affects the handling.
That's in large part because of the pointless range anxiety people have tbh, especially developing markets. I suspect as people start losing these concerns we might see battery sizes go down again - unless the battery chemistry gets us drastic weight savings before then.
So what is the ideal PHEV owner profile? Sounds like regular short journeys and occasional long drives with higher consumption where the fuel use is offset by almost zero consumption in town (where mpg is arguably higher) and a dedicated home charging solution ?
@@1812O I think this sounds right. And maybe don't lug around a full tank of gas until you need it for a long trip?
@@1812O Perfect description.
Spot on. When your driving pattern is a combination of short daily runs and occasional long journeys the PHEV makes a lot of sense - when having a home charger. I do nine out of ten drives in electric mode. That translates into 1/3 of my total mileage.
My two bobs worth…, bought an Outlander PHEV a year ago. Fantastic car. My main town is 65km away. I normally arrive with 20ks still in the battery. Do my business, top up the battery at the local supermarket fast charger, and drive home. Over 6 weeks I was averaging 1.2 litres per 100 km. Over a 4 month period, with numerous 600k journeys, and filling the battery when I could at fast chargers on the way, I averaged 4.5 litres per 100 km. Pretty good stuff. No regret at all.
Numerous 600K journeys?! That's a heck of a lot of driving!
I used my BMW 330E PHEV for a year. My work was a couple miles down the road. As was the gym, grocery etc. I filled it with gas 4 times in that year because I used EV mode almost exclusively. Plus I got the huge tax credit. If you have a short commute to work, school, etc. the PHEV are the best bet.
Can you charge your battery while driving and how long does that take? How mutch extra fuel does the car take?
@RealMadrid946 I have a 330E company vehicle and my office is a 45 mile round trip. With discipline, using regenerative braking and good anticipation, I can get beyond the maximum claimed electric mileage. Although it will intelligently work out when to use the ice on the journey (as long as you set up the sat nav), I manually intervene for noticeable inclines on fast roads. I have done 13000 miles with over 9000 on pure electric. The BIK saving over my previous A4 diesel is £250 per month and I probably spend £45 on petrol every two months. My company did pay for a home charger and I have an overnight electricity charging plan. No brainer
That use case tends to point towards a fully electric car, though. The one advantage with the hybrid, as a counterpoint, is presumably not being range-limited by the battery if you go on a very long journey.
I get what you're saying about the inefficiency of a battery pack that's never charged but with the advantage of regenerative braking most plug-ins are still more efficient than pure combustion vehicles. Mine is rated for 30mpg without electric while the equivalent regular model gets something like 24mpg.
Good point, I think the argument would be that if you're going to drive it that way exclusively just get the non PHEV version which is considerably lighter and will get more MPG.
The problem is in the case of DS4 for example, can get 40+ MPG on the diesel models.
@@XxXnonameAsDXxX Not everywhere you could drive diesels. In my state all small diesel cars are prohibited. 😒
Author states that his model gives only +5 mpegs on dead battery comparing to petrol. In some scenarios even only 18 mpegs. But you always get much smaller fuel tank
my petrol car never goes below 35 mpg, what are you doing to get a poor 24mpg?
Have to admit the aspect I hadn't thought of before is that they're even more useless for people without dedicated parking than a BEV. I've seen a lot of people suggesting then as a stepping stone if you don't have charging facilities to go full electric.
I'll also admit that I'd thought they were a pointless worst if both worlds option, but I know three people who use them as intended (charge at home every night, commute less than pure electric range) and they save 80 to 90% of their petrol usage.
I'd still recommend looking carefully at your actual usage and going for BEV if you can. It'd work for a lot of people who currently think it wouldn't.
This video is foolish. Without a charge they are just hybrids. That is not a bad thing. Unless you are driving like a complete moron you are getting good gas mileage.
@@Xander1Sheridan Yep, the battery and hybrid drivetrain don't become useless weights when the battery is "empty," they still capture energy from driving, reduce wear to brakes, and assist at handling the engine load.
My 2018 Chevy Volt has averaged 55MPG lifetime over the last 65,000 miles. My 2019 Volvo XC90 T8 is at 30MPG over 70,000 miles... without the hybrid components, the Volt would be 33MPG and the Volvo would be 20~21MPG... of premium fuel.
As you might imagine... I do a fair bit of driving.... the PHEV tech is a winner.
Saving 80% fuel usage while having 20-30% battery capacity of a full BEV is a win for carbon emissions. Battery production is dirty af
With the battery shortage, I think everyone should get a PHEV before getting an EV. Also its a much better buy for your money. You can cut commuting emissions completely with a PHEV, best bang for the buck.
@@matthewsheridan6451 I have now come around to the view you express. EVs strike me as an unattainable "best" that will prevent us from achieving the attainable "good." For most suburban commuters and errand-runners, a PHEV with home charging means almost never having to use gasoline. Sourcing lithium and rare earth minerals to replace the global fleet with EVs is not going to happen-far too many mines would be required on aboriginal land and in environmentally sensitive areas, with issues of toxicity required for mineral separation and processing. For every activist demanding EVs there is another trying to prevent the opening of a mine. It is a more attainable goal to source what is needed for the smaller battery packs that are used by PHEVs. PHEVs could offer 90% of the environmental benefit of EVs in an attainable way and at a fraction of the cost.
I think your review is more of a specific experience with a single PHEV. I've had my 2018 Chevy Volt PHEV for 4 years now. 42k miles and 85% of that electric. It has a 18.4 kWh battery, which last on avg 50 miles depending on weather. Perfect for my daily M-F commute, so typically always on electric. In the rare scanerios I take a longer range trip, ill get around 40 MPG with just the gas engine, adding easily another 350 miles of range. Not sure what your problem is with it taking all night to charge. I just plug it into a regular 120v outlet, and then its fully charged by the morning. And if I need to take it out sooner than that, then I got essentially just a regular hybrid vehicle which still has an appealing MPG. Literally no inconvenience no matter how I slice it, however I understand not all PHEVs are the same. I simply dont understand why PHEVs aren't continuously inovated on. The Volt being discontinued is a real shame. It's been quite literally the best of both words for me, elimanting range anxiety, dependece on public fast charging network, and of course less than 15% reliance on petrol. Seems like a win-win in my book. 🤷♂️
I also have a gen 2 Volt and my experience is just like yours. This review is only considering one car. Not all PHEVs.
THe problem is some people but them and have no charger at home,, and theyre usually not designed for a rapid charge, i think he explained that.
i agree and i drive a hybrid right now, but the hybrid is a bridge technology and almost outdated again. Normal EVs load pretty pretty fast now, loading infrastructure advances and the range increases too. So overall, it's better to focus on EVs which will have decades (if not more) ahead of them and for that 1 or 2 long range trips every month, just incorporate a 30 minute charging break into the trip. In a hybrid, you always carry hundreds of kilos/pounds around you don't need. I love the engineering which went into combustion engines, but it's over, it's not sustainable anymore, let's fix all the open issues with EVs and clean energy instead.
@@vanivari359 i agree long term with that mindset, but the infrastructure and charging speed just ain't there yet to convince people who are reliant on the convenience of fossil fuels vs going FULL ev. I see it all the time in my social media from friends and family. Its partly due to ignorance, but also plenty justified. IMO PHEV's are still the way to go for daily commuters who can reliably charge at home.
By the time infrastructure for EVs becomes highly proliferated you'll have gone through 1 or 2 entire cars waiting for that day (10-20 years at the current rate to be as popular as gas stations- which alot of places are cutting back on EV infrastructure due to the power grid bot being able to sustain it anyway). A PHEV is perfect for now, and still will be perfect in the future. They're getting ever better, with some real world ranges 50+mpg, full battery on day to day trips. Most now can do stage 2 charging, so not sure why he lied about that. There's no range anxiety on large trips, or heck if you just forgot to charge it last night you can still drive and get better mileage than any regular combustion engine and aren't late for work charging an EV.
You don’t need home charger Rory. If you are daily commuting to work, and they have a healthy supply of chargers, that would be suffice! As a few of my colleagues own PHEV’s with no home chargers.
At the end of the day, there is no right or wrong to a purchase of BEV or PHEV’s. It comes down to 3 things:
✔️What suits your budget
✔️What is feasible for your lifestyle and
✔️What is convenient for your daily commute! 💥 ⚡️✨🔌 ⛽️
*PS:*
Love the teddy bear🐻top!🔝 Sometimes, life without a Teddy is like a face without a smile.😊🧸
What kind of cars and when do they charge their car everyday?
It is all about your routine/lifestyle. The main question is: how far do you usually travel between charges? In my case a plug-in hybrid was perfect for me. I had a commute of about 40 miles round trip every day to work. I purchased a Chevy volt that had a 42 mile (usually I got more) electric range + gas (36mpg). For months I would not have to fill the gas tank (8gal) because I would charge the car overnight every day and only really used gas on the rare long trips or extra driving I had to do during the week. If I had a 100+ mile commute or average drive between charging it would have made more sense to get a hybrid with the best gas mileage could get (50+mpg) or a long range all electric vehicle.
When my volt lease ran out, I was looking for another plug-in hybrid to buy but the volt was discontinued and there was not any hybrid at the time that fit my needs. So, I ended up buying a full electric car for my commute/every day driving and later buying a plug-in hybrid Crysler Pacifica Van for the wife. She now barely fills up her gas because on a normal day she does not go over the 30-mile electric range (conservative) of the Van while we use the Van for any very long trips we do (500-mile gas+electric range!) and my electric car for almost everything else.
My point is that plug-in hybrids will be a very good option for a large group of people until nearly all the advantages of gas cars are eliminated by full electric cars (probably around 10 year) and could still be a very good option for a small group of people beyond that. It is too bad many people won't see that.
You bought a Chevy? 🤣🤣🤣
@@barriewilliams4526 I like to buy American... it was a great car. I'm not really a brand snob, I buy the best car for me for the best price I can get. So far it has worked out pretty well.
@@aloodena5196 The chevy Volt was an amazing car.. I have one. mine (a 2018 model) gives me up to 70 miles but always at least 50 miles in winter) electric range and when that stops I get 43 mpg (US gallons not UK gallons) for the rest of the trip as a regular hybrid. My 10 mile commute (20 total) allows me to charge every 3rd day . and I buy fuel about once every 3 months, which at $6.50 a gallon is nice.. I can also charge at work, so that works out well.
@@julianelischer6961 I had a similar experience... chevy made the wrong move getting rid of that car. I had a 2017 model.
I have a Prius. Given my current usage -- I drive about 18 miles daily and occasionally go on a trip for many hundreds of miles -- I'd be better off with a Volt or Prius Plug-in except that I don't want to switch cars - the current one is doing a pretty darn good job and is very cheap to just hold on to (plus, I don't have a better solution to at-home charging than running a cord to the street from my house and hoping I get on street parking close enough to home for that to actually work)
The numbers for my PHEV: 7000 electric km/year (4350 electric miles/year), 3.95 litres/100 km for the entire year (71 mpgUK, 59 mpgUS).
Only in 9 days out of 365 the battery wasn't enough in the city and I had to switch to hybrid mode.
90% of the time, I charge at home at a 220 V regular schuko plug.
The best ever fuel consumption for a full tank was 2.1 L/100 km (134 mpgUK, 112 mpgUS, 2148 phev km, 1432 electric km (mostly in the city, taking the kids to and from school) using 495 kWh, 717 hybrid km (mostly on the highway at 130 km/h) using 45.8 L).
The worst ever fuel consumption for a full tank was 8.3 L/100 km (34 mpgUK, 28 mpgUS) driving sporty up a mountain on winding roads with the car full of people and luggage.
I have NEVER seen a 2 digit fuel consumption (meaning over 10 L/100 km). I don't even think that's possible on public roads while obeying the legal speed restrictions (130 km/h on the highway).
I live in Bucharest, the worst city in Europe for traffic (at times, it takes 30 minutes to travel 4 km). I once borrowed a naturally aspirated car (1.2 L Skoda Fabia) and the instant fuel consumption was up to 24 L/100 km (12 mpgUK) with an average of 13 L/100 km (22 mpgUK). I have pictures to prove it.
My PHEV doesn't use petrol in the city for weeks on end.
Even if there's nowhere to charge (like on holidays), the PHEV still does 8 L/100 km in the worst rush-hour traffic jam (2 km in 1 hour) where a non hybrid car can go as high as 24 L/100 km (12 mpgUK).
The benefits of a PHEV are:
* I'm not harming anybody with foul smells when taking the kids to school. When hundreds of cars bring all those kids to school, the smell from some of them (ICE cars) is just horrendous.
* I've learned to put electricity in the car, not just petrol. I have all the apps on my phone to find public chargers and start the charging. When going places, if I have to choose between 2 destinations, I favor the one with a charging station.
* the car *always* stops the engine at traffic lights even if the car wasn't charged once in its life. PHEVs don't allow the driver to disable the "start/stop" capability like on regular non-hybrid cars.
* you can drive many thousands of electric kilometers even in countries with a developing infrastructure (like in the whole eastern Europe).
* the cars are powerful using the smallest engines (218 hp from a 1400 cc, 155 hp/L). The car is both quick (with 400 instant Nm) and fast (with the 218 hp). Overtaking is soo easy in a PHEV. So PHEVs are safer because you spend less time overtaking.
* even in electric mode, with 330 instant Nm and 115 hp, the car is quicker than the traffic around it. It takes 2 seconds to reach the city speed limit of 50 km/h. The grip is usually the limiting factor.
* the car is very quiet so the music sounds better.
* when the wife wants to go far away on a holiday, we don't get stranded or have any range anxiety with the kids in the car.
* even if you don't have where to charge the car today, that may change in 2 years. Maybe there will be chargers at work. Maybe you can have a 220V plug at home.
* the car will always give you full power with electric boost even if you never charge the car in its life.
So PHEVs are awesome and people definitely should buy PHEVs instead of ICE cars.
Thank you for your detailed post with real world data.
Bloody hell, when's your book coming out 🙄
To be honest if I read what you're saying, just go full ev with a car that can drive + 400km because the charging speed is so much faster than a Hybrid
Really helpful information - thanks for sharing.
You understand, unlike guys like Rory and Mat who just read out whatever rubbish some journalism grad wrote for them
Any car's mpg performance varies drastically and continuously depending on how you drive it. I currently have an efficient ICE car and it shows anywhere between 10 mpg to 50 mpg depending on if I'm driving it like a race car vs. cruising steadily on the highway. I'm very interested in a PHEV because my daily driving is only around 20-30 miles and I could easily charge it at home and even while I'm at work. Seems great to me.
Probably one of the best car reviewer and presenter on CZcams. Cheers Rory!
It is definitely all down to how you use them. My RAV4 PHEV suits me well, as 99% of my journeys are within its 52 mile EV range (I get about 3.6 miles per kWh). On longer journeys well beyond that range, it's been getting 70 mpg or more, even if I'm traveling several hundred miles. Slow charging is the only real issue you have to keep in mind.
Toyota’s PHEV is different, when battery is done it is still a hybrid rav4. Not all Europeans “counterparts” work like that
@@cdan1984 what do you mean by that? Sorry for the noob question
@@shehzad555 the RAV4 PHEV, allows you to use 14.56 kWh of its 18.1 kWh battery for all electric driving. This gives you 42-70 miles of EV range (52-56 is my average). Once that 14.56 kWh is used up, the car drives like RAV4 hybrid (non-plugin version) and uses the remaining battery to increase the efficiency of the petrol engine, and provide low speed EV driving (under 15 mph). You can't then use EV mode again until you recharged by either plugging in, letting the engine charge the battery or have let the inverters charge the battery by coasting downhill at breaking.
@@cdan1984 which PHEV doesn't just switch to hybrid mode when the battery is low? My Hyundai Ioniq PHEV does that. I've never heard of one that doesn't.
If your RAV4 Prime equipped with 6.6 KE onboard charger, you can have full charge in 2.5 hours on 220V 32A
We've had a Prius Prime since November. It is a good fit for our driving habits. Overall we get about 2.6 L/100km in the summer and 3.6 L/100km in the Canadian winter with snow tires. The charge is usually enough for a 1-way commute for my wife (she travels to a bunch of different schools in our county). She can't charge at the schools, so it is regular hybrid mode on the way home. I don't know about other PHEV's, but our car still gets good mileage even if the battery is dead when I start a trip. I find that if I drive on a dead battery I get between 4.0 and 4.5 L/100km, mostly on a hilly highway. The battery is actually never anywhere near dead, so at worst it drives like a regular hybrid.
I wanted to get a proper BEV, but the charging infrastructure in my province is terrible, and there weren't any suitable models immediately available near me when we needed a car right away (I hit a deer).
Exactly because the Toyotas have the hybrid synergy drive where you get the same mileage as a standard Toyota hybrid once the battery runs out which is still brilliant. Most other brands use a primitive clutch system for the petrol engine to be connected and disconnected. This is a bad video as it assumes they are al created equal which they are not. So much ignorance when it comes to this topic!
@@wolfiestreet6899 because that's the way CZcams works. It's global. You are allowed to watch and comment on videos world wide.
@@wolfiestreet6899 no I dont. Spell it out.
@@wolfiestreet6899 Why can't he be here on this UK channel?
@@minyusun3907 Oh, they know why...
Love my Mercedes phev for cost efficiency. Most of my journeys are within electric range. Last motorway journey I did in non sport mode got me 65mpg with zero battery and I am happy with that.
Very good, clear and concise explanation of the pros and cons of PHEV’s. I’ve got a BMW X2 PHEV and it is brilliant for my needs, as I am retired and most of my journeys are local. I have to accept that on long drives I have to revert to petrol but that’s fine.
This is something I face every single workday working in a new car dealer. Mainstream customers are absolutely clueless because media and so many of reporters have no idea on actually making it as clear as you perfectly do in this video.
This is the most perfect wakeup video for a lot of people who think PHEVs are the holy solution for everybody. NOPE. They are very pin point product for a fairly minority of car users who have home charging possibility and do limited driving which is big time mainly short 30-60km daily driving with either 1 or both end charging possibilities.
In my opinion the big picture is not about forcing everybody to the same drivetrain. Its more about actually having every single person driving the optimal drivetrain for their specific car using profile.
But is this car he tested a parallel hybrid only. Does it act different than the serial parallel from Toyota . Like the Prius Plug in hybrid
Love my Volvo v60 PHEV. Pretty much drive 90% electric only and charge at home with solar power (except winter...).
But it still gives me the flexibility to drive 800km four times (holidays) a year without range anxiety....
Perfect for me. Next car will be full electric though.
For me i am leaning towards phev now s60 t8 extended range is just about right for me. I think i can do full bev now but i feel like in 5 or so years there may be a leap in battery tech dimishing the value of the current bev significantly.
I have a V60 PHEV and also get a lot of charging from the spare output from my PV array. I don't have a regular daily commute as now working mainly from home so a large proportion of my motoring is now effectively solar powered.
It also drives very impressively when compared with my previous V6 A4 Avant.
Much preferable to a BEV for me.
Thank you. I wish I had found your channel months ago. I'm in NYC and I finally got a clear understanding of PHEV. You made it clear so that it made sense and I could actually understand. Finally! And yes, I subscribed. Thank you. Keep up the good work. And wait, you do motorcycles too!?.My man! I am impressed!!! Ride on.
I have an MG EHS (PHEV) which astonishingly manages to drive 40 miles on pure electricity pretty consistently. This means I almost never run out of battery as I live in the city and are charging every day at my company’s charging stations - where I can charge unlimited for a flat subscription fee every month. On months where I drive a lot I literally pay less than a third of what I would have paid in my previous Diesel car. I still like to have the option to go on a car trips through Europe and that’s what makes the PHEV perfect for me.
2:36 that NEVER happens, a PHEV still uses its electrics for torque fill and low-load cruising even when operating with its batteries "depleted," it's dangerous to fully deplete a lithium battery.
Actually, the Volt uses the electric motors to run the car, all the time...like a locomotive (train engine). The gas engine never hooks up to the drivetrain.
Plug in hybrid is perfect for me as I rarely do long distances, I've had it for 3 and a half months and done 3500 miles and am averaging over 100mpg. Mine is a company car and is saving me around £200 a month in tax and over £150 in petrol so a no brainer for me. *Disclaimer* Don't buy one if you are doing mainly long journeys!
i hope it isnt a merc or bmw or some vw concern car
@@pavici erm why?
@@TheHutchRuns well, unfortunately they have really poor BMS, especially if you dont look after the batteries. They really rip people of when there is an issue with it and some failures arent covered with warranty. So basically they make money from programmed failures
@@pavici not sure where your getting your info but that is interesting but I am same as OP. If it is a company car then any maintenance is all paid for and covered under warranty via your company. A PHEV company car is a win win
And what is the reason that you're not going full ev then?
Depends entirely on your driving needs. I'm considering picking up a used Prius Prime for around $20,000 Canadian. The small plugin range will get me around my daily suburban local-errand range without firing up the gas engine. For occasional highway trips, gas economy will be twice that of, say, a compact ICE SUV.
The Toyota Rav4 Prime PHEV only gets 1-2 MPG less than the Hybrid version so basically 38-39 MPG versus 40 MPG. The Prime also has 300+ horsepower and once you factor in rebates you are only spending a few thousand more. I imagine many manufacturers aren't able to make them as efficient or powerful but for me it's the best car I've ever purchased being able to run 100% EV mode with 40-50 miles of range in the Summer and only sip some gas on the weekends for longer trips.
I think the best solution for someone not ready to go fully electric, or doesn't have the means to charge at home, is a good old closed loop hybrid, they lack the power and the EV range, but they get killer mileage and don't pollute as much.
A 2.0L diesel saloon will do just fine. I get 4.0L/100Km quite easily on the highway with a e220d.
I will remember not to pollute when Im riding on the 150 meter bezos yacht or casually going to space for no reason
@@BobBrown. on the Highway and definitely not easily, only if you drive 60mph or below. 👍
@@BobBrown. lol….. but the maintenance on diesel is way more expensive! A hybrid power train like Toyota just needs regular standard maintenance and nothing else
@@toninocars actually no. I go 120kmph, roughly 75mph and I can get 4L/100km.
All these reviewers are testing the cars on nice country roads and highways. The PHEV is a city car that allows you to go on vacations as well. Also is funny how they forget to mention that an empty battery PHEV works like a FHEV and give you around 45-47 mpg in the city compared to a petrol at around 19 mpg.
We FILM the cars on nice country roads. We test them EVERYWHERE.
@@AutoTraderTV so why dont you compare PHEV and ICE in the city? I bet PHEV even with an almost dead battery would still do much better with regenerative braking.
@@mk1111 Not sure what you mean “would do much better”.
@@AutoTraderTV efficiency wise.
Cheers from Australia to all. I think phevs are better than plain hybrids; I've had a phev for 6 years and absolutely loved it. My fuel consumption on long trips was definitely better than a regular ice even with the extra weight. Also when driving pure electric, it was simply awesome!
Hey mate, fellow aussie here, what car do you drive if you don't mind me asking?
Hi @esaw7067 it was an Audi A3 e-tron. They don't sell them new in Oz anymore - don't know why because they're fine cars. Anyway, although I loved my phev, hybrids do have more systems and components, so the likelihood of faults is higher. If I were to buy again, I would go for a reliable brand. But this is me ... I'd better spend time elsewhere than under the bonnet.
I rate myself as reasonably clued up on EVs but frankly have never looked too much at PHEVs. I have learnt something today, thank you. Reason I looked? I’m contemplating the new Skoda Kodiak PHEV - what you say makes a lot of sense and with that car yielding around 60 miles on a charge, I reckon I’d get pretty much all my motoring done on leccy if I plug in when I get home every time. On the other hand, as you point out, if I go for the Enyaq EV, I would only need to plug in at weekends. Food for thought.
I have a plug in hybrid. MB GLE350DE, it’s brilliant, it comes with a quick charger and I always charge it on public charging point: quick and easy. It comes with 31kwh battery so I can really make all city drivings on electricity alone. What I do realise is on hilly terrains like when I drive in Germany or Spain, the regenerating system can quickly charge up the battery (not in flat terrains), once for purpose of test I drove 10 days in Spain on sports mode only (when the diesel motor is always on), the car charged itself from 24% to 98%. What I want to say is in that kind of terrains you can really get the best of both side, you can keep battery between 30%-70% by switching drive mode. You just need to have a seizable battery minimum 25kwh, all new models are coming with quick charger. So the plug-in hybrid is really a good choice.
I don't understand why Merc are the only company doing the Diesel PHEV........it makes so much sense.
I would love to hear some averge MPG figures over a few thousand KMS
@@06younger well I just came back from a trip. I decided last week to drive conservatively through Germany, where most parts are hilly. I was driving 120km/h, relatively slow in Germany. When I climb up I would drop down to 110-115km/h, when I descend around 130km/h. I do mix both diesel and electric motors depends on situations, trying to maximise it. This trip includes road works (80-90km/h), some traffic jams, so real life situation. Eventually I managed 972kms out of 60l diesel tank, my battery level stayed (was 3/4 and ends in 3/4 with consumption and breaking charges). I’m very much amazed, the vehicle is a 2021 Merc GLE350de with 31kwh battery and 60l diesel tank, combined 330ps, weights in 2655kg (absolutely massive). So again the switching between diesel and e motors made many free mileages in my experience. Of course with this mass driving conservatively makes big difference compare to smaller models, in any case 60l diesel, almost 1000km real range with over 2800kg real weight is massive.
@@06younger I usually get below 7l/100km when I drive longe Autobahn trips through Germany. Sometimes even below 6l, depending on how much I can drive electric. I alway drive 130kmh when allowed, otherwise I adapt to the speedlimits. The efficiency of this car is incredible.
My average consumption for the last 30.000km is 6,3l, while driving just about 1/3 of the distance electric (or let's say without the engine running).
Funny thing is, the car actually consumes more fuel when you drive in Eco mode.
Right… I got the a250e hatchback off the back off Rory’s review on it. It works perfectly well for me.
I used to live in a flat with no charging infrastructure, then I had it installed at work. In regards to my work situation, I had a waterproof 3 pin plug installed (it only cost £140 and I charge for FREE AT WORK). It takes my car around 5 hours to charge (from flat) a 15kw hour battery. As I don’t need my car when I’m working for 8/10 hours, I don’t care how long it takes to charge.
Here’s the thing.. in summer, I get between 35-41 miles out of a possible 44 (according to mercs range claims). In winter, the worst range I saw was 20 miles, and I wasn’t driving erratically. The best was 30.
The reason I got a hybrid car was because of how cheap they were to run. I sometimes go on long distance trips like Essex to Birmingham. 2 weeks ago, I used half a tank of petrol to go to and from Birmingham… unheard of in other cars I’ve had.
My cars got sports mode from when I want to drive like a maniac, yes I still do that from time to time, most times it’s in EL mode and it’s perfect for me.
In conclusion, I drive around 16 miles a day, if you add some errands in there, I might do 25… it’s a no brainier.
Snap with my CLA250E, 45 miles range this month due to warm weather and it last me all day easily. I live in the suburbs of a major city so the battery range covers me everything I need in my life
Whats the reason for not getting a full EV in that case?
@@rafampoorter5835 can't go anywhere far without having to possibly charge for hours on end midway.
@@TheManWithNoName786 I disagree, if you have an EV that can drive 400km it is more than enough for being a daily drive. And if you go on a holiday (1000km) there is no wah you drive that amount without stopping at least 2 or 3 times. While waiting you just rapid charge 150-300kwh (depends on how rapid your car can charge) and you just wait 15 - 20min while stretching your legs or drinking a coffee.
@@rafampoorter5835 only some not all can do 400km. We do miles here in UK. And not all can do 300 plus miles which is just not good enough while a full tank of petrol can get me 400 miles or more and I can fill it up in 5 minutes. Also EV charging infrastructure is crap and not reliable. Just not worth it currently unless charging at home
Yo Rory! I didn't realise you were at Auto Trader. You are a great presenter and explain things well. I've always wondered what the difference between a plug in hybrid and a regular hybrid were. It does make sense, but yeah, people really need to know what they are for.
Hey great job explaining, you straight forward style is very much appreciated 👍
I absolutely agree. More people have to hear this message. Even if PHEV is just an intermediate tech. Also, on that note, it's unfortunate that those are seem to be replacing Full-Hybrids, which is a bummer, since those were designed to save fuel without charging. Exactly the use-case that was talked about.
They PHEV is Full hybrids with a larger and heavier battery. Usually they just act like hybrids with the battery dry. They get less mileage than hybrid but still better than gas version unless the motor and battery occupies a big portion of the powertrain.
I've had a bmw 530e as a company car the average fuel economy is 34mpg. The reason for a PHEV is low company car tax, but given the motorway mileage I do a diesel would be far more environmentally freindly option. After 20 miles the battery is a dead weight, but this makes the Government look good.
Totally agree. I do a lot of motorway driving for work and I regularly get 75-82 mpg on those runs. A phew would get nothing close to that. A phew is simply no good for long motorway drives.
Very enjoyable to listen to you. Well delivered and quality info. Cheers
So agree with this review! I ve had plug-in for 2 weeks now. Exactly as said. If you have option of charging at home, and mostly you have daily trips up to approx 50-60km, its good. If going for a longer trip without option of charging for example, the consumption will be at least 15-20% higher.
Another clear and informative video , thanks
Love my Escape PHEV. Just hit 7500 miles, 6400 are Electric. In Hybrid mode typically get 45-50 mpg.
Great video! informative and not waste 10 minutes. Bless your soul
I had a plug-in E-class for over 5 years and it was a brilliant car. It only had a ~7 kWh battery but even that seemed to help a lot. I was charging at home but even on longer trips where it was impossible to charge, the fuel economy was very good for a petrol car of that size. I had around 7 l/100 km on long highway trips. On shorter trips around 100 km it was 4-5. The navigation in the car was very smart and as long as you enabled eco mode and set your destination, it was switching the EV/ICE/charging modes depending on the track. For example if it knew you'd be going through a city it charged the battery on the highway so that you could travel through the city on electric power only - which is much more efficient when driving slowly and doing a lot of stop/starts due to regenerative braking.
Now I've upgraded to an EQS which was delivered with a faulty fast charging controller and I had to wait over three months for the replacement part!! My E-class PHEV never had any trouble. That's not good advertising for Mercedes. You can imagine the joys of having a 108 kWh battery and only able to charge at 11 kW.
Thanks man! PHEV is fine for some local commute, school run, tossing kids to weekly activities, shopping… and just in case - you have ICE. Long distance - EV or good old ICE.
or… just buy a light weight petrol ICE. For long distance - intercity cruiser midsized car or even VW multivan
2 cars are only a good option if you have the time (maintenance), money (upfront cost), and space (parking) for them
Loved my Golf GTE - agree you need a home charger , it definitely gave me the confidence and motivation to go full BEV ! Within about 3 months of ownership I knew full EV was the future for me, but having that petrol safety net at the time was useful.
Could you tell me to what speed could you go on electric alone, for example, on motorways? Thank you
I really appreciate your video on the plug in hybrid. You explained the pros and cons of having a plug in car very clearly and objectively. I was confused about this topic before, but you cleared all my doubts. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience. Please keep making more informative videos like this. 👍
Great report! This perfectly sums up my rambling thoughts over the recent months. Thank you!
Well, a big problem with this logic is that your test drive routine is quite different than the everyday life as well. PHEVs BEVs or any other hybrid for that matter, shines the best in congested traffic. Because they use the least amount of energy in that situation, where a petrol engine would absolutely drink fuel like crazy.
I used a DS7 PHEV, and it was getting between 4.5-6.4 liters/100km with moderate traffic and an almost empty battery.
Another point is, plug in hybrids can use their engines in it's preferred RPM range. So you would get more efficiency out of them. And they can also use more aggressive tunes for efficiency compared to a non-hybrid. Just look at Toyota and Lexus, they're using crazy efficient engines in all their hybrids. Those engines would be an absolute nightmare to drive without hybrid systems because of their bad torque curve.
I’m not sure what you are trying to say with the fuel mileage of your DS7. Is that good or bad? My daily petrol car does 4.6 liter per 100 kilometers average with highway, city and lots of traffic jams. I can’t afford an electric so that works for me, but if a hybrid doesn’t score better than that, what’s the point?
@@RustOnWheels "and an almost empty battery."
Honestly they are pretty nice. The battery is enough to get to work and back, the ice is good for long distance. Also recouperation is always neat
For a short commute with "free" charging at work that's great.
@@nickhoughton7025 exactly. Then returning home and plugging it in until the next morning. As the average work commute is less than 38 kilometers, the battery pretty much is enough for everything but the last 2-3 km
@@MaticTheProto but would a small BEV be lighter? Or a small 1.4 diesel ICE car give lower TCO?
Need to mention the BiK rates for company car drivers. Taxing a PHEV's currently over 3 times cheaper than equivalent CE, which means thousands in savings.
This is the best video and tips for anyone who is considering buying a PHEV or indeed electric car. Factor in motorway journeys and winter time, then cancel out the range on those, finally figure out where/how often you can recharge and how long you can afford to do so. If it fits your schedule and expectations you are good to go. BEVs are not for everyone, and PHEVs are definitely not for everyone. Although, it's amazing driving a PHEV that can keep up with a fast BEV even when the battery is almost depleted and then keep going while the BEV has to take a charging break.
I purchased the PHEV Lixiang One, from the manufacturer Li Auto a couple of months ago, here in China. In a few months, I’ve experienced the good and the bad (no ugly yet). The drivable range in EV-only mode is around 110~120km before it switches to Hybrid mode. I charge the car at home three times a week and fill up the tank every six to eight weeks. So far, so good. I am planning on taking a 4000Km trip real soon. We’ll see how it goes!
YO really??? I've always wanted to hear reviews about this car. I was happy when they chose a fuel hybrid set up instead. Please leave an update about your experience with the car.
on a highway, with such EV mode range, you'll face "the ugly"
@@anotherview2671 True, but so can be said about all PHEVs. With fuel hybrids, I'm guessing that the engine stays at an optimal RPM, so perhaps efficiency is a bit better.
Won’t find any phev in Hong Kong the government is giving people roughly the same as 10 thousand pounds off a new EV if you scrap your ICE vehicle and nothing for anything else.
You can guess it like 8 out of 10 cars are a Tesla on the roads here now.
All the car park charge points are free as well
Got a 530e and use it exactly as intended. Daily evening charge and refuel around once a month.
Average 400-430 miles from a tank.
It’s geared for city driving with occasional longer journeys. if you spend time on motorways you still can’t beat a diesel.
But if you chose the right BEV then it would be better than that. You'd charge overnight and never go to a petrol station.
Only averaging 400-430 miles? On my 330e right now I’ve used 15l of fuel and have nearly done 400 miles. If I keep going I’ll get about 1000 miles from this tank. Have a feeling you’ve got the wrong car.
so less than my new kia ceed 1.5t. utter waste of time
I live in a Jersey City, in the USA. I recently got a 2023 Niro PHEV. I’m able to charge it at my apartment building in about 2.4hrs at a cost of $2.55 and i’m am able to do most of my driving in the city on electric power.
Over the Christmas break I had the chance to drive it from JC to Baltimore and back. The Niro gives you 3 modes. Electric only… until the batter dies and the engine kicks in, Hybrid mode where the battery level is kept at a constant charge.. ie never dies or automatic mode.. where the car decides when best to use electric vs engine.. eg engine freeway in hybrid mode and city slow driving in full electric mode.
I generally use automatic mode and at no time did I get less than 51mpg on the trips to and from Baltimore. On other shorter trips it I have got 55 to 60mpg
So I agree if you are going to not charge it.. then you will not get the benefits, but the DS must have a really bad setup to get 21mpg and yes you need to use the regenerative breaking and not race. I think this video is good and it gives the pluses and minuses.. but seems to point out the worst and not the best.
Lastly if you have a car like the Niro with adaptive cruise control and highway lane assist.. your journey becomes such a joy. The car does everything. Steers, accelerates and slows down to a stop and accelerates again in start stop traffic You just relax and enjoy the journey. Best purchase ever.
We have just taken delivery of a new PHEV. Currently only using a "Granny" charger to top it up every evening which takes a couple of hours. Have filled the petrol tank three times in 2 months of owing the vehicle. Very happy with it. We are looking at getting a 7kW charger with an off peak tariff but not got around to it yet. Have watched a few videos about chargers but concerned that our consumer unit is under the stairs in the middle of the house. Have a supermarket within walking distance of the home and there is four 7kW chargers there so if we want to top up quickly that's an option. It would take a lot of visits to add up to the cost of a home chrager.
Love these videos you do, Rory. No nonsense, tell it like it is. Great stuff.
The reason I have a Tesla 3 today is because of Plugin-Hybrid.
I would have never jumped from petrol to full EV it was just to scary for me. But after using Plugin-Hybrid (Audi A3 E-tron) I enjoyed the EV driving and after charging at home and other places i got to know where the chargers are and it was not that scary anymore. So after a year of having A3 I jumped over to full EV :)
So for me Plugin-Hybrid was an awesome steeping stone from a petrol to EV.
@Bowie range / getting stuck somewhere because of it.
@@tylorvermaak3536 some people like suv
I've been waiting for someone on CZcams to break this all down, thank you.
Great video!!! Very informative and engaging!!!
I couldn't disagree with you more. I'm a petrol head and my weapon of choice for the last 10 years was several different BMW x5 m sport. As SUV prices have gone bonkers and I was looking at £35k plus my trade in to replace my 4 year old X5 I was forced to look at a daily alternative. Recently bought a 2020 Bmw 330e m sport. I plug in at work. The range gets me home and back and all little daily trips. and have 288 hp on tap for some weekend B road fun. which lets face it that is approaching 10 year old M3 performance ish. So in 3 months of ownership I've only filled it 3 times with a 40L tank thats very low running costs compared to my previous X5 at about £300.00 per month. Yes if we do long trips the fuel economy will drop but overall for me its a no brainer. Being in the motor trade I've always been anti EV but now I'm a convert.
That was great information! I was on the fence about a plug in or regular hybrid. I drive over 100 miles per day. The PHEV would have killed my wallet. I have a 2010 Prius. My best mileage was 74mpg driving nice and easy. Usually, I get between54 and 58 mpg. I have replaced the battery twice. It has 417,000 miles and still going strong. Loving my car during this gas crunch. I have had people and dealerships ask if I want to sell it. Funny how at one point with 250,000 miles they only offered me $2,000 and now they are selling for 12 to 15k dollars with that mileage. I guess it was a wise purchase in 2009. Lol
Perfectly explained i been driving phev since 2020 and have no off road parking however i charge at work and try to accumalate as much mileage out of the batteries as possible, the best i have done out of 1 tank of fuel and continious charging is 850miles and now i am on my 3rd PHEV which gives me 30mile range and have not fueled up since i bought it, excellent!!!!
Thanks, man. This was actually valuable information, and not a bunch of bs like on some other channels.
I like the logical advice around plugin hybrids.
The one thing I think you need to be more specific on, is the advice on getting a full EV.
Where you say once a week you can pop down to local carvery and charge it whilst having a meal.
That's only applicable in the big cities where there are enough chargers to 1. find them at places where you can spend a couple hours and 2. be confident to do that knowing there will be one available.
The big problem with EV for most of the country (by area not population) is that even when there are chargers there are only a handful at each place... and the difference between EV and petrol is that a queue of three cars at a busy petrol station means you're waiting 10 to 15 mins.
A queue of 3 cars at a charging point means at least and hour, and that's only if each person does a 20 min quick charge... there's nothing to stop the first person charging to full.
Conventional Hybrids Exist
@@codyaltman29 🤨..yes, and? Not really seeing the point of that statement
Plug-in hybrids make a ton of sense for a lot of people, especially for families living in apartments or having to street park their cars so they can't reliably charge them at home but can often charge them up at work or at the store. Yes, you have the downside of the weight and complexity of two drivetrains, but also the benefits of being a short range BEV for 90% of the driving most people actually do while still being capable of easily going much farther and not needing to worry about charging station availability or long charging stops.
Outlander 2015 here, driving for nearly 4 years. Have had 3 months with a single tank of petrol, and only used the battery that gives me around 40km. On the flip side 100km/h eats 6L during summer and 7L at winter. 130km/h around 8-9 and 160-170km/h that maxes out on 11L/100km on the German autobahn, with 2 adults and car full to the ear in the back. For an SUV that's pretty good.
Thanks for calling out those who cannot charge it at home not to buy these, but many people have chargers at their offices. PHEVs are here to stay until BEVs become more affordable and charging stations and plugs become standard everywhere.
Has to be one of the most cheerful venting I’ve ever watched lol
PHEVs were at best a stopgap measure until pure BEVs had enough range and charger sites for most users. But like all compromises, they have some serious downsides. As Rory says, when the battery's empty, it and the motor are just dead weight, but in the longer term, PHEVs will be expensive to keep running, because of their complexity.
They have all the disadvantages of a fuel car and a BEV in one over-complicated and expensive to maintain vehicle, which is exactly what traditional auto makers want to keep buyers tied to their dealer network.
Lucien, you're assuming that a PHEV will need as much maintenance as a regular ICE vehicle, but that's flawed logic since the ICE engine won't be working nearly as much, and therefore won't need to the same amount of maintenance. Also, the transmission is the transmission; it will need to be maintained the same (no more, no less) as any other vehicle (ICE or BEV). Do you have any data to support what you're saying?
The battery should never become empty since it uses regenerative braking and the gas engine recharges it.
Not true and not complicated fool
@@loriwolf5 yes, a basic principle of engineering logic is that a system with more components will have a lower overall MTBF (Mean Time Before Failure) than a simpler one, because each component has its own MTBF and the SPFs (Single Points of Failure) sum together to reduce the overall MTBF. Fuel engines have hundreds to thousands of components, BEV motors have tens, plus a simpler direct transmission.
You're correct that the ICE engine is less stressed, but all those extra components still deteriorate with time, whether used or not, making PHEVs inherently less reliable.
@@tristx7832 That's correct, but there's a difference between "not empty" and "usable amount of power". Also, using a fuel engine + regen brakes to charge a battery is inherently inefficient because the fuel engine's TE (Thermal Efficiency) is 40% at best. That means 60% of the energy in your fuel is dissipated as heat as the battery charges. Plus fuel is more expensive than electricity in the firrst place. PHEVs are a niche solution. Most drivers would be better off with a BEV, but that's not what the legacy car makers and their dealer network want to sell.
Well done Rory! At last someone telling how it is. The reality for many if not most people is that TODAY’s EV technology and infrastructure means PHEVs are really only suitable for city use with very rare long journeys. (Even MHEVs aren’t always more eco friendly: my wife’s Suzuki Swift does less to the gallon - 45 mpg -than my ICE Seat Leon - 48 mpg). If the WLTP cycle were a realistic one, I doubt anyone would buy a PHEV.
Many people need a car for city use and rare long journeys. If that is what you use your car for, a PHEV might be the perfect choice.
Your contribution was very useful. Thank you. I want to hear more from you.....Merry Christmas....
Agree with most of the points you said. We got a Outlander PHEV and I think it's safe to say we're using it the way it's supposed to. We have solar at home and for charging it costs nothing. And the majority of our journeys can still be done in full EV mode. However, Outlander has a clever trick to save your state of charge while on longer journeys so it's a bit better than similar petrol only SUVs. (Diesel could be more fuel efficient I think).
Aahh Rory, I have been waiting for this, brilliant , well done in getting this out. Yes for me s Phev would be the ideal I think, mostly short journeys into town, I have a garage so no problem charging every night or three. But a Volvo XC60 Phev was £10000 more in 2019. So even taking the annual tax saving , my 6000 miles annual mileage and the 30 free miles a week I calculated I would still be £2000 worse off over three years. Well maybe not now at nearly £2 per litre !!
So really I am happy with my petrol XC60 until the Phev price goes down or an EV comes along that can do 400 + miles. I can't be doing with range anxiety.
I love your reviews Rory, keep them coming.A
I have never understood the logic of paying so much more for a vehicle, to save gas.
Mk7.5 VW golf GTE owner here. I love my hybrid. Yes, it can be in e mode and be all eco friendly and stuff.
But also, it has GTE mode. This is the button you press if you want golf GTi owners to make shocked faces in your rearview mirror.
Regen braking is far more effective than you could imagine.
As others have said.... Till you actually drive one, it probably won't make sense. But then after driving one, you're sold.
Excellent video. Very informative and worded in a way I could understand. Thank you.
This is so massively informative.
This is also why I kept my small petrol that weighs 900kg.
Really good explainer video 👍🏻
I am not sure about other PHEV, but mine has 70 km range solely on battery and once this is consumed it works like regular hybrid car and not like zombie and is very economical, abt 4L/100km while in hybrid mode. Obviously like any energy while on highway it consumes much more especially when riding above 130km/h.
We have a Lincoln Aviator PHEV and live in an area where we drive a fairly short distance most days. But including road trips in 1.5 years we have put 13k miles on it and averaged 48mpg. It has been a lot of fun and gets the job done. And me and the kids love a bit of full acceleration once in a while
Your evaluation of the pro's and cons of a PHEV got me thinking. The part that was most important was what happens when the battery no longer contributes to the car moving. The other part was when you said I was going to need a level 2 charging station with a PHEV.. those two observations convinced me to either keep my ICE car or jump into a full EV. The cheapest car is one I got. But or when I buy a new car it will be a full EV. Thanks for for the video.
You definitely don’t need a level 2 charger for most PHEVs. If you plug it into a Level 1 overnight, it will likely be full in the morning.
@@tylermotherfnleroy I agree with Tyler, I've dipped my toe in with a BMW PHEV. I've had 4 years & done almost 40K miles. I charge it every night. I program it to charge from 11pm to 07am. That's when I get cheaper off peak electricity. Winter I pre-heat for 20mins, Summer, Air Con to 19degs. I get 30miles of electric range so I drive on that. When it almost runs out the engine kicks in automatically. It will run happily at M'way speeds all day. If I want to play games I drop it into sport which give 4 wheel drive. Often when I get to my destination the battery is half full or better. My overall range from full tank & battery is 285 miles. I got my 7Kw home charger with Government Grant. This my stepping stone to full EV.
I have a Rav4 PHEV when the battery drains down to 0 i still works as a regular hybrid and still gives amazing gas mileage not aure what lead foot he has to get 18mpg. Further more i have noticed once the battery goes down to 5 mile range and i switch to hybrid mode manually i get between 40 and 60mpg all day long. I dont think he knows what hes talking about. For most of my in city trips i get 42 ro 45 miles in ev mode only. The battery and motors at no point are dead weight.
Really rare and objective video, bravo! I've got 2 PHEV and it's exactly this, small trips every days but in a small village without any super charger. I can just plugin in every night with normal network on my garage. Like everything, nothing is perfect, each one must find the perfect solution for he's use case and possibilities. Even in some cases full gas cars are a good choice...
Great vid Rory. Hit the nail on the head in terms of these various types of EV/Plugins needing to be used for the right types of user. If all you do is pootle around (and remember it’s something like 80% of all journeys being under 5 miles), then a plug-in can work for you. Outlander phev is a great example. Super popular in London because they work for London users. Drive it flat and it’s a suv lump that does 25mpg!
So if you have to so long journeys don’t get a phev. Personally I’m still down with Toyota’s hybrids. Allow EV like town economy while managing Diesel like economy on long journeys. Shame they will be banned along with ICE in future. I think there’s still a place for them.
Bad economy results on an empty battery is because it either tries to charge it or it cannot use it since is empty.
Yet on a fairly long slope the simple hybrid cannot charge anymore. Also it can only get you to the curb in electric mode.
Totally agree. I had a courtesy PHEV as me EV was in for repair (3 months). PHEV is great if your not going on long journeys. 20-30 miles here and there for a day and then plugged back in at home is great. But if you wanna get on the open road they are horrendous for mpg. You limited to staying local. I’m glad I’ve got my EV back. Missed it. And definitely would go for a full electric all day long.
The sweet spot is to charge a PHEV from solar PV and commute largely within the range of the battery. In summer I fill the fuel tank less than once a month - nice!
Why would ICE be any more ‘horrendous’ than a HEV? Genuinely curious.
Another excellent episode
When I bought a caravan, I tried towing with a BEV but the lack of tow through charging places made the longer journeys I wanted to do completely impractical.
So I went back to a PHEV. Now I can drive electric for all my local journeys, and use the petrol side of the car for longer towing trips with the caravan. A compromise till the infrastructure allows me to go back to BEV driving full time. It's sometimes horses for courses, rather than a single solution for all.
I think more people should watch this. I leased a PHEV (Outlander) and I think it’s a pretty great suv. It does have fast charging. I have a dedicated parking space but no onsite charging. So that means you have to plugin at work or a gym or at the store etc. These public stations also cost money….22-36 cents per kw. If you choose a standard hybrid your mpg may not be quite as good but it’s fairly close and you don’t have to keep constantly charging.
This is by far the best explanation and clearest video explaining PHEVs and what happens if you don’t charge them. Thank you !
Personally I adore PHEVs. Been using a C350e since 2018 and love the duality. The way I use it is if i'm on the motorway, I use E-Save or Individual with the powertrain set at sport so that I have max power anytime + battery discharge does not drop by much if you drive smoothly in sports mode (3-5% for a 200km journey on the highway, quite economical too) and utilise the battery in stop-go traffic and urban areas. I would most definitely buy a hybrid again in the future. Luxury to enjoy e-mobility without range anxiety. If it breaks, i'll get it fixed or buy another PHEV. People just need to know how to use them.
yeah but....
With the x1 2021/2022, there is battery save mode where it recharges the battery (dependent on speed), bit like a dynamo. Best used on motorways. It worse on efficiency of fuel by about 30-40%, but you can then use all electric in the urban areas.
Good for overall economy of travel and environmentally for urban areas.
I dont think "if you use them wrong" is a valid point to make. Cars in general are awful if you drive them wrong and crash them into a tree.
PHEVs are literally the best cars around. They do 2 things and you only need 1 car for them. You cannot use a BEV for long distances and you will ruin an ICE on short distances and city driving. A PHEV is perfectly usable on long distances (minus the smaller fuel tank and extra weight) and does short distances without heavily wearing down the engine. The only scenario in which a PHEV (or any other electric or electrified powertrain) would not make sense is when you absolutely cannot charge it at home or work and/or you do 99 % long distance driving.
My brother routinely takes his PHEV on a 1000 mile trip to visit kids and grandkids and he always averages 40- 50 mi to the US gallon. That would be 50-60 mi to the imperial gallon. On long trips he sets the car to normal hybrid function and it usually averages between 40 and 50 mi to the gallon. When he starts with a full 5 and 1/2 gallon tank of gas and fully charged battery, he makes 3-4 gas stops on a trip between Dallas and Minneapolis depending on weather and bladder conditions. Now that he is retired he typically goes shopping with the car in the morning and lets it charge on his solar system in the afternoon. He has gone up to 5 months between gas stops. The car only has a 5 gallon gas tank.
Wow
We’ve got a Porsche Cayenne E-Hybrid, it costs me around 66p per night to charge and gives me between 25-30 miles depending on the weather and what gadgets I turn on.
On long runs, I use Hybrid mode from the first mile and try and drive it the best I can to ensure that the EV mode works well.
It’s so cheap to run for such a big car.
Fuel cost is insignificant among others to owning a porsche
@@Mark-rt6fy It significant to me. The only reason we opted for it was the long lead times on the Tesla Model Y and the low short-term lease price of the Porsche, it works out cheaper than a GLC 300e Hybrid.
@@rhysadams Depends on if you want to own it past 12 months. Porsche has 2-3 times the insurance and maintenance cost than a GLC. It also has higher mileage depreciation. Anything breaks outside warrenty it's gonna cost two arms and two legs. Have you thought about any of these?
@@Mark-rt6fy Hi Mark, hope you're well? Our insurance went down after we swapped to the Porsche from the Tesla Model 3, our broker said that it is due to the complexity and repair costs of a Tesla. 3 year warranty and the deal we have includes maintenance and tyres. But generally you are spot on, especially if you were to buy the car. Every car works out different and sometimes its better to buy the car, sometimes lease.
There is another side to this evaluation. Company cars and how they r taxed. We have a fleet of 30 + PHEV. Never charged, moved from diesel 2 petrol. The only reason is to lower the tax burden away from the driver for all the wrong reasons. Thousands of cumulative miles lugging dead battery packs around only to reduced the company car tax. Higher price, lower mpg. PHEV are excellent in the correct operating requirements. Not as company cars as drive the wrong behaviour.
Bought a Cayenne Turbo S E-Hybrid two months ago. Drove it from the UK to Turkey for a vacation. I've EVSE on both of my homes. 10000 kms in total (yes in two months), 3000 km of pure electric driving. It has the range for my daily needs. For 680ps vehicle, I averaged 6.8 lt/100km in total. Electricity is quite cheap if you charge it in your home. It ALL depends on your lifestyle. I never questioned myself to put my foot down on the throttle, I did many launches since I bought it.
excellent report and so nicely presented. thanks