Why Rhythm is more important than lead
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- čas přidán 17. 07. 2024
- Baxter and Jonathan discuss why you should strive to be a good rhythm first before you try to shred. What do you think? Let us know in the comments.
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I have been a lead player for 50 years. So, when I listened to a song, I was always listening to the lead player. A year ago I acquired some earlier Beatles recordings where all the instruments had been separated out so you could cleanly here exactly what they were playing. When I listened to what Lennon was doing, I was totally caught off guard! To me, rhythm guitar more or less buried in the background just strumming along. Listening to what Lennon was doing, there was purpose and real planning in the choice of chords, inversion of the chords, strumming patterns, timing selections, transitions, etc.! I quickly adding in Ringo's and Paul's tracks so I could hear just the whole rhythm section. Life changing! Forget lead solos, I now wanted to play in the rhythm section! Lead playing is frosting on the cake, but the rhythm section is where the music truly lives. As a musician I understood all this, but until I actually took time to really study and dissect what was happening the rhythm section of the band as closely as I had studied the lead player; the importance of UNDERSTANDING how to make a tight groove was a revelation to me. If you're band that has a tight rhythm section, thank you're lucky stars! Buy them a drink, help carry their equipment, acknowlegde and complement them on their performance, and never take them for granted or a second class citizens. Being in the rhythm section takes as much study on what to play and how to play it as us lead players spend time leaning licks. When I listen to a song now, I'll listen to the rhythm section first! In the 1940"s, the musicians had a term that still hold true: "You ain't got a thing, if you don't have that swing,"
That was a long read but it makes sense.. thanks for sharing this
My husband was dissing early Beatles one day, and I pulled out the chord changes in I Saw Her Standing There's rhythm line, and he admitted it was far more interesting than he'd caught. For me, Paul's frenetic bass line is what really drives the melody. John's rhythm lines were complex enough that he used a Rickenbacker 325, which is about 80% the scale length of your typical guitar, because it allowed him to make faster changes and use more complex chords.
I remember my Rhythm & Accompaniment class at M.I. with one time Beach Boy Ross Bolton. “TRI-PO-LET TRI-PO-LET” is still drilled into my head. He was an amazing musician and really fun guy. RIP Ross.
I bought his funk guitar vhs tape
As a primarly rhythm player in the band, I approve this message.
I've always thought that rhythm is a dancer. Almost like a souls companion, you can feel it everywhere.
Did you just quote Snap!?
@@9unslin9er 😏
Such a wonderful topic. so refreshing to hear the names ( Izzy and Keith) when it comes to rhythm playing. For me, playing a rhythm part for songs seems harder to be consistent than a solo part.
I'm really glad to hear this. I've been a 'rhythm' player for 50 years in working bands, yet a lot of times I felt like the "Rodney Dangerfield" of guitar players. LOL My job for many years was arranging the songs. We played 'our version' of country rock/classic rock cover songs. Drums and bass kept time, and controlled tempo, but rhythm tied it together and played the familiar "hooks" that identified the tune. If the lead player was missing, I had no problem playing triads over rhythm parts and sounding like both. You really appreciate a good rhythm player when you hear someone who is not so good at it! LOL 8) Peace --gary
I started out imitating my dad on acoustic. He played at home only, country songs while strumming. Singing while playing rhythm is easy, it's how I learned.
I can't play lead, but I can riff.
I learned exactly the same way and was the same kind of player for 20 something years. I could play rhythm exceptionally well, but I couldn't play lead. Then I learned to play lead and was like "Omg this is so simple, why was I making this difficult?" Trust me, if you can play rhythm- you can play lead. Lead playing is ten times easier. It's about timing more than anything else- just like rhythm. You may not be a shredder or be able to play like Steve Vai- I'm not saying that's easy- but just playing pentatonic blues, any rhythm player can do it.
That's just what I told my teacher when we started lessons "All I want is to be is a good Rhythm guitar player" and he is teaching me how to be a good rhythm player. Hell EVH was a hell of a rhythm player!
EVH is so underrated as a rhythm player
I saw the legendary Joe Pass at the Jazz Alley in Seattle back in the '80s and he played chord and rhythm solos. He played alone on stage for over two and a half hours, with an intermission.
Chords and rhythm are the basis of a song, they support the melody.
He was in a category all by himself.
I started on rhythm and learned lead. I am the only guitarist in my band and need to play rhythm.
I'd rather play with the feel of David Gilmour than the shredding of Yngwie.
"rhythm is more important than lead" is absolutely true. If you want your band to sound good that is.
Thanks guys for the smile in the morning that I didn't realize I needed.
Let's hear it for that bass love!
I, as a singer used to love having the lead guitar player noodle behind my vocal, when doing original music. It sounded great. It was not shredding, it was color.
Rhythm guitar is where the song lives!
I once heard an old-timer ask a kid if he just played solos, or if he played guitar too.
Hendrix and Van Halen were both monster rythm players.
Eddie’s rhythm playing was the best part.
Yes! Great topic for this episode. My last two bands were Bass, Drums, Guitar, and a Vocalist. Being the only guitarist, you have to cover a LOT of ground. Helping to create a pocket is SO much fun when everybody is grooving. Cheers🙂
I spent the first 20 years of my guitaring saying “Screw lead. Rhythm only!”
Now I’m learning lead but having a rhythm background seriously helps
Yes, the bass part from I want you back is awesome!
Rythm rules the guitar party
I’ve always been a rhythm guitarist. David Gilmour may be my favorite player, but Pete Townshend has always been a bigger influence on my playing style
As a power trio guitar player, I like how Alex Lifeson characterizes his style as "picky-strummy". It perfectly states the sole guitarist's tightwire act of rhythm and lead.
Without rhythm lead is just a limp noodle. Cheers Casino!
100% correct, everything you guys said.
Rythm is fun. I have played for 30 years and I see no end to it, still learning and finding new ways. It was a couple years back when I went truly stunned and intrigued about the slow hand Eric Clapton and one particular tune of his.
Easy stuff but most people seems to play it wrong, here on CZcams yes yes, checkt. One can play it by the scool book and that is absolutly right but so wrong. Claptons take on some chords are pretty akward and then he alters small changes where the next way around will not became exactly the same. Most people will play the same thing over and over again, that was a easy peacy! Well it is not.
As a young man I employed the rhythm method quite frequently.
I'm a Hendrix guy and listen to his rhythm playing.... Holey Moley!!! Rhythm is where it's at....
Even when I am one of 3 guitarists, I still playing rhythm behind the other players in different parts of the sound spectrum.
Salut to you Casino….so much more than the sum of your rhythmic components….
Came for talk about R&B riffs. Baxter name dropped The Temptations. I was not disappointed.
Two words. Malcolm Young.
Amen!
Absolutly.
Yep, I do love these guys, but not mentioning Mal when discussing this subject is crazy. He is THE rhythm guitar player, there will be no other ❤❤❤
There's a video on MusicIsWin where Victor Wooten is talking to Tyler at NAMM and gives Tyler a lesson on how a bass player holds a band together and can make the guitar players have a really bad experience if you tick get on the wrong side of them.
Playing lead's never been my thing. My fingers just don't do the lead thing and I always took it as a compliment when better players than I am would ask me to play rhythm. Even if it was just a practice situation those were serious players.
Kudos for mentioning that bass is important. I feel good about that! LOL
ps. I started on cello and moved to bass as well.
I've always been a rhythm player & lead singer. Shredders sometimes used to ask me "How do you do that?" My reply was always "It's just part of a chord based on the riff". I honestly completely forget hearing a solo on an album.
this is the best show ever when you have good weed! i laugh my ass off and or smile constantly. if i were in the room i wouldn't say a word, just listen
I feel like these guys are talking directly to me.. I’m trying so hard to play chords.. my fingers won’t make the right “shapes”..
Rhythm is king!
I have a chord book, I write new chords down so I don't forget them 😁👍
I remember an interview of Angus Young with the interviewer asking Angus if Malcolm could play the leads that he played. His answer was “yes, the question you should have asked was if I could play way Malcolm plays… No”.
Some of my favorite players are Malcon Young, Richard Fortus, Cory Wong, Scotty Moore.
I’ve always been a rhythm guitar fan. The riffs, the groove, it’s always been my favourite and what draws me in. It’s what I played in my band and though I’ve gotten better w lead over the years, if I played live again I’d prefer to play rhythm still. And yep, Izzy was my fave in GnR!
EVH and Lukather, great solo's but their rythm skills is even more amazing.
thank you for stroking my confirmation bias 😂
It’s so true!!
The last gig I played was on March 8, 2020 during an arena tour. The last riff I played live was E Major - 1, 5, 6, 4.
I saw phish for the 1st time in 1991 at the Binghamton forum and it was fucking amazing.
Pretty sure I have that show on tape. Like a maxwell. Haha. I’ve been to over a 100. First show wasn’t until 97 though.
@Smell The Glove I've been to 50 or so but they were all before 2000.
@@CarlSanford76 you should go to a show this summer. They’re touring now out west. The lights are pretty insane these days. The crowd is hilarious, a massive amount of 50+ year old hippies throwing down, haha, and then a good amount of 20 somethings thrown it here and there. It’s definitely still fun. Trey is playing a Trainwreck amp now and sounds pretty damn good.
@Smell The Glove I'm in upstate new york, if they come within 3-4 hour drive I'd really like to see them. It's been a long time.
If you can play rhythm, you can play anything. All the lead notes are in the chords. Doing both in the same song is easy if you think it out. Rhythm is always there and where the song needs something interesting in the space that's lacking, is where the lead licks go. Jon is absolutely right! 90%+ rhythm.
About time someone talked about this. There is so much lead noodling in guitar demos.
As a British guy living in NC, I find it hilarious to hear you guys, also in NC, talking about lead guitar players "wanking". 😆😅🤣😆
I had a British guitarist when I lived in NC for a while, I thought I had captured the only one!
I mean the term is pretty universal for guitarists and it should be obvious why a British term would be used as most of the original innovators in guitar wankery were Brits. Rule Britannia, Britannia wanks all day...
@@brettc6132 You may _have done._ I don't play guitar. :) .... Or bass, or _any_ musical instrument. I also don't sing.
Listen to any great band and you will find a solid rhythm section. Without a solid rhythm section, they cannot be great
…& also with you & Keif & dem.
Thinking of Keith Richards swinging his Tele at someone makes me think of the scene from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade where the old knight that had been guarding the holy grail swung his sword at Indy - and nearly fell over in the process.
It’s funny that you mention trying to emulate a high hat, and that becoming part of your style. You are in very good company.
As I understand it from an interview with him, B B King (who was famous for his wide/fast vibrato) he was trying to emulate his hero, Muddy Waters who was famous for his slide playing.
Blues Boy wasn’t able to get the hang of slide, so his unique vibrato was his way of “faking” what Muddy was doing.
Something I tell my students on a daily basis:)🙏
I’ve been trying for 30 years to play both lead and rhythm at the same time. I’m getting there but it’s hard, and I’m not even trying to sing at the same time. I think it probably helps to know the song so we’ll that it’s boring to practice.
If you suck at rhythm, try recording a bass part, and then try to rhythm over it without getting in the way. You’ll learn bass along the way, while you’re learning where to sit in the mix
Learning to play big band jazz will help with the basics, as far as getting comfortable with different chord shapes and moving around. It’s easy to hide in a big ensemble too!
Check out this track from the Grateful Dead's Europe 72 album. Bob Weir, the rhythm player for The Dead, is just amazing. He has been a big influence on my own playing.
czcams.com/video/xCgZxrf8nrU/video.html
I don’t do the lead thing really. I play songs and melodies. My solos are part of the rhythm and melody. I try to play guitar like a vocalist.
I do like noodling on guitar, but mostly do that on my own, in a band setting i prefer to be the rhythm player.
Which is oddly sort of part of why I resisted bass for many years-yeah bass is rhythm (mostly), but i like playing chords
I just love lead so much, but rhythm is fun too!
I'm the only guitarist in my band so I'm both. Rhythm definitely is more important though
I'm "old school" in that I prefer lead guitar parts, that are 8, 12, or 16 bars, at the most! So, George Harrison, BB King, etc. players like that, are more to my liking. To me, those are the most effective, and meaningful. Usually (for me) the shorter the better, and leads that fit the song, and are not just "noodling" in the right key! Without great rhythm parts, to underpin and drive the song, "lead" becomes less effective, unless you are in a 3-piece band, or some such. But, that's just me.
Can’t have a song without rhythm!.. in my band if the other guitar player who plays fills and lead wasn’t there no problem we can still play the gig .. if I’m not there they can’t play the gig like at all !
Johnathan, this year is Phish’s 40th anniversary, go see them! I’m going to my first Phish show this summer and I’m so excited! 😁
Driven the Bus all the time!
Robbie Robertson and The Band come to mind. He can play, but he plays for the song.
No mention of Bobby Weir . A great rhythm player
Absolutely. 😎 He's a big influence on my own playing.
I'm the lead guitar player in my band, and I do my best to play as much rhythm as possible, even during solos. Lead solos are over done and not every song needs one.
People don't dance and toe tap to Lead they dance and toe tap to Rhythm!!
Izzy Stradlin is the GOAT. He wrote all the coolest songs in GNR.
“Why your basement is more important than your bedroom”
HELL YEAH! I´m a Rhythm guy all the way!: Hetfield, Malcolm Young, Mustaine, Scott Ian, Dino Cazares, Iommi, Johhny Ramone.... they kill Yngwie and all those Shrapnel Shredderz
But Yngwie is actually an hell of an rythmplayer but those moments are rarely captured. He plays blues like the bogieman himself.
Rhythm is a blast to play, I feel more creative laying down some great tasty lines supporting the song. Hendrix was probably the best, listen to Wait Until Tomorrow from Axis Bold AsLove.
this is a perpetual issue. in college i.e. 1969 I switched from lead to bass because while trying to put together a new band all I could find were Eric Clapton wanna bes and no Jack Bruces. 10 years later a similar issue...got a bass...but no rhythm so I went to rhythm. Now I just play whatever since there's no band...just me.
All my favorite songs have great rhythm part and well calculated solo that accents the rhythm. Everyone wants to be Tim Henson now. Great if he inspires you to play out of the box but we all can't be August Rush.....love basslines though. Very fun to drive the melody
The one guy who could solo constantly and somehow never get in the way- Randy Rhodes. You know why he played constantly- because if he stopped his amp would start squealing and screaming with feedback- it was cranked to the gills. So, every time he stopped playing, he had to kill his volume really quickly- doing this during a song was sort of jarring because just like if you cut off your reverb or delay with no tails turned on, abruptly- everyone notices- the same thing happened when he killed his guitar volume- so during a song he would just constantly play. Randy is the reason I started playing guitar- Randy Rhodes and David Gilmour.
Gary Moore was the same
@@garyg1602 You know what, I'm ashamed to say it but- I don't know much about Gary Moore. I know he was a tremendous player from what I understand- and that he played blues/rock style guitar- my favorite, but for some reason I just never got into him or listened to his stuff. Can you recommend a good place to start?
If lead parts are the flashy big arms of a song, the rhythm is not the LEGS you stand on. Drums are the legs. Rhythm is the HEART. Without the rhythm, you have no emotional pattern to build on and solo over.
Groove is in the heart...
Yes.
There is definitely something to many of the greatest guitarists starting as drummers or being capable of drumming. SRV, Hendrix, Kravitz, Grohl, McCartney, etc.
Coco Montoya was Albert Collins drummer for ten years…all while learning to play guitar from Collins himself…🎸🔊🎶🤘✌️❤️🤟
Carl Perki. Most bad ass
Gorilla amps create more musicians than any other. I am convinced of this being actual fact. My first amp was a Gorilla. It was not a good amp. "Nothing screams like a Gorilla." With that said, I learned to play guitar on that amp. I learned to get decent sounds from that amp. It forces you to get better. Then, when you upgrade to something better, my case it was Fender, you actually notice the biggest jump in ability, and inspires you to push your skills, and build your own sound. Bad amps that create adaptable musicians. I hated my Gorilla, but I respect what it did for me.
As an Englishman its great hearing Americans finally using the word wanker! Bout time lads! What kept ya! Haha
Bob Weir. Ding ding… School’s in.
Rhythm is the meat of the song sandwich!
Dude I TOTALLY want to be Izzy
2:39 holy crap what happened to Jonathan's right hand? That's one wicked wound!
I learned to play rhythm guitar first, and had no use for lead playing. I was a young teen punk rocker in the early 80s, and punk rock had no use for lead guitar.
40 years later, I'm still trying to figure out lead guitar. Lead was for jazzers and wankers... 😂😂😂
So much easier to grab the acoustic and sing. My rhythm chops are pretty solid.
rhythm? i love power chords
I think the big division is between improvisation vs planned or Lead vs Rhythm. Rhythm bleeds over into lead too much to easily divide. In comparison, the parts of the song that are planned are WAY different than the lead, that any guitarist can step on stage and play.
No solos for me! Rhythm only - and I like it that way.
Also: Rhythm doesn’t have to mean full chords. Learn to play melodies rhythmically. I like to play a combination of chords and little riffs.
Rhythym rules= Cropper, Keef, R&B, Keef, Lennon,Townsend They swing.
"do you play lead or rythym?" Answer: "yes" as Townes said "For the sake of the song" and Carolyn said "the more you play the less you suck."
Despite the divisions, the Dead often riled from fans and detractors, Bob Weir deserves adulation from both when it comes to rhythm work.
You guys are having too much fun - do you ever actually sell any guitars? I grew up with the Ventures, so I always wanted to be Don WIlson. Every band back then had a rhythm guitarist and that's what I wanted to be. I was always afraid to solo. Still am, if I'm honest!
Remember Terry Kath?
Larry Carlton took the chords/rhythm to Kid Charlemagne and wove/fashioned the wonderful solos through the rhythm/chords. Learn rhythm!
Steve Lukather made a lot more money playing rhythm guitar on sessions than he ever made playing lead. I quote him “learn to play the dumb shit”. Need I say more.
As I get older, I prefer playing rhythm more. I'm not afraid to let er rip occasionally though. 😄
Always been more of a rhythm player 🎸