I used to see self-pity as an identity and actually felt disgust with people who would try to give me advice on how to "get better." I genuinely believed that they were trying to erase ME, that they didn't like who I was and wanted to make me into a person I was not. This went on for years in my late teens/early twenties until I was struck by a thought that felt like lightning: I was walking down my stairs and I suddenly thought, "You are miserable because you want to be miserable." It was true. I'm not talking about depression, btw, which is very real for countless numbers of people. I'm referring to a self-perpetuating "thing" I was doing to myself to qualify reasons for failure in all parts of my life. I decided then and there that I had to stop it. I started taking responsibility for things I did (or didn't do), cut off the crippling critical internal monologue and made myself do things that made me uncomfortable. It wasn't easy. That was about a decade ago and my life has changed completely. I am genuinely happy, negative experiences don't keep me mired in awful thoughts for long, and, strangely, I have a ton more physical energy. It's one of those things that, unless you actually commit to doing it, will feel useless and stupid.
Maybe because I am over 40, but just now I have started the whole thing ALL over, like ALL. All of my life, who I was supposed to be is done, burned to ashes. I am literally starting all over and it’s so hard particularly in the professional and social arena because I lost virtually 99% of my friends. At the same time is incredibly liberating.
I was forced to do this earlier in life than most, due to a curve ball in life. In my early 20s, the world was no longer making sense (Ti-dom) from all the BS we were told growing up. So, about 24 I sat down and started researching. I started with myself: stages of grief, PTSD, coping mechanisms, and their remedies. Once I worked out my own behavior, I jumped into the wider world: politics, the economy, social issues and social cycles, male/female dynamics, personality types and psychology, spirituality, etc. I didn’t stop until the world made sense. I’m now 34, and thank God I updated my model. I sleep like a baby even with all the chaos in the world, right now. It’s difficult work, but worth the lack of stress. I have a Boomer ENFP aunt that formed her world view in the 60s culture revolutions. She hasn’t updated her model, and to her the world is falling off a cliff; and she’s retreating from everyone. This is everywhere in society, right now. People are split between the old model and denial, and the new world we’re moving into. Hopefully, people learn “The Art of Letting Go”.
I relate to this so much especially because I am a 24 year old Ti-dom and I've had some things that I never really processed that I went through in my late teens. I took pretty much my whole year at 23 to self reflect and figure out what was going on and what I actually believe from politics, religion and spirituality, social dynamics and psychology and more. Through it I realized I need to separate from my parents who supported me for far too long because I allowed them to, always making excuses for why I never finished college, never took responsiblity, why I never looked for a job, and why I never left home. Some excuses more genuine than others and yet the fact of the matter is I was just fucking scared of living life and having to be responsible for myself or others. I wanted a sense of security albeit a false one. I realized that I was gonna be stuck for the rest of my life if I don't make some major changes and that was even more terrifying. Ultimately I decided it was time to go. I moved out now, I'm working and I'm learning a trade. I'm trying to be responsible for myself and build my own life instead relying solely on others. I'm still 24 so it's early days but it's definitely been the right decision. I need to be independent and make something worth while of my life and build the "Tribe" around me instead of just taking.
Logan Goff Grats, man. I was there. I’ve got 10 yrs on you. For me, as I built that Ti model and identity, things started to get easier and easier. It’s as if you get the foundation built and the house starts building itself. Life will punch you in the face at times, but keep building those understandings, and it gets easier. Also, at 24, it really seems like that 3rd function starts stepping up and helps you navigate the world more effectively. Good luck.
Interesting how you say having a 'good model' of how the world and your place in it works allows you to sleep better. I am the same age as you, and I'm guessing we're both Americans... at least growing up in the US, I know the BS has left our age group feeling betrayed and resentful - I've seen it over and over again with almost everyone I've talked to currently in their late twenties and early thirties. However, I can imagine your aunt formed her beliefs similarly in her early adulthood, and in 30 years time your model will be plagued with outdated specifics and sticking points with some young twenty something shaking their head at your inability to free yourself from old ways of thinking ("old" meaning "no longer popularly accepted or respected" which isn't synonymous with "not applicable"). I was a stubborn and arrogant teenager, and once decided - for one reason or another - that I'd derive my sense of worth based on my ability to make sense of things. I was subject to institutional violence, hypocrisy, and betrayals during childhood from education systems and establishments, government and social services, the family unit, law enforcement and the legal system, and it was nothing new to expect I couldn't trust anyone to give me good guidance or keep me safe. If I did happen upon such a person, they were almost immediately stripped from my life. I came away expecting that no one would take responsibility for all the brokenness, the majority of them unable to even see the harm they caused, which often frightened me more than the ones who knew exactly what harm they were doing. I thought perhaps I could ask the right questions and make accurate observations, I could find the answers myself... become the accountable one. Ultimately, making sense of things meant that I could have the chance to exercise agency over circumstances and exploit knowledge to influence outcomes for the better. Being so armed, I could remain safe even though I felt alone. I could protect people I cared about, people who were being abused and mistreated. I could stop injustices. I could realize awesome things into this world. Then, after rather brutal events that left me helpless beyond what I could emotionally handle, I came to realize 1) there were some things that would break me to understand, and 2) even understanding a situation does not guarantee I can change the outcome. I had to rebuild my sense of self after confronting those realizations. Now, perhaps unfortunately, I operate under the assumption that a world-view is only as good as it mitigates the risks of 1 and 2. A belief system, a model of the world, it is only a tool... not a vehicle for truth or self-worth. Reinventing a world-view is letting go in a sense, but it is also pursuit for the same old thing - yet another tiresome structure to wrap one's sense of identity and security around. Having this relentless drive to figure it all out in order to gain stability has been the most painful thing to hold onto in my life. Not letting go becomes the stability in itself, after a while, even when my fingers grow numb and cold, bloodless. I'm honestly not sure if I'll ever be able to escape this castle I've built... but, I will keep trying. At least you can sleep.
@@Sharkuterie327 I am American. 1st and Last Paragraph: Good point about how models become outdated. Agreed that’s how many of the older generations see it and why our generation is so resentful. They take a snapshot view and never change it. There’s an “out” to the nihilism trap, though; that is if you realize that reality is cyclical in nature. Many cycles are at work in our world. If you can understand where you are in the current cycles, you can understand where you are going, thus leads to a more flexible “worldview”, and out of the nihilism trap. Everything is a cycle. Read The Fourth Turning. That should get you started. 2nd & 3rd: I am sorry you fell into the system. I truly am. My mother is a social worker. I heard the stories she has told about absolute incompetence of the naive kind and....of the more sinister kind... Sounds like you had a front row seat to what happens when the family unit is destroyed. These kind of stories are what’s needed these days. Some good can come out of it. 4th: Some truths are difficult to swallow, but that doesn’t make them false. The day a gazelle realizes he’s pray, is probably not an easy day, but if he doesn’t accept this truth, he dies. Reality sucks, sometimes, but it still “is”. I can’t speak too much to a “Belief System”, as I work with Ti instead of Fi, however, I did in my twenties fall into the nihilist trap. I realized quickly, though that nihilism was due to a hole, or “missing block” of identity. Healthy people, after all, do not fall into despair. For me, finding spiritually filled that hole (not Religion, which is just another BS belief system). Maybe you can use that. One thing I would warn (if you’re an ENFP), though, is to face your past experiences, process them, and get through them. My Aunt had a very difficult childhood with very Si concepts being shoved down her throat at an early age. Since Si is her 4th function and where her fear resides, this has caused her many problems later in life, as she never came to terms with it. You write beautifully, btw. Good luck to you.
This is beautiful!! It reminds me of this quote: "Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think that you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong." Ayn Rand
I wish I can say that I'm out of it, but I finally realized that my neurotic mind likes to mentally prepare for the worst and takes it too far. I need to find a way to volunteer again without it disrupting my studies. Im fostering some animals tomorrow so I hope that helps. When I volunteered that in the past (like every Saturday, not a one and done) I felt so much better focusing my time on someone else, that I d Got out of that rut" I need to do this or that, omg I have like no time to get that done!" and that nonesense slowly fades. Its always an honor to serve others, it's a privilege to do so in whatever way I want. Even the way I organized Imy room is becoming more cluttered, I'm always itching to throw a section of stuff out only to find more tninks to organize into a category. I need to volunteer again, it readjusts my perspective just like I did my values. P.S. Shan, how did you start that questioning process?
I was thinking this too, but more that Shan kept interrupting Dave. I want to hear the entire thought before the next person begins their interpretation. Sometimes I'm really into the build up but then.... Interruption. I'm like, "but wait I want to hear more about that idea!" Maybe it's just me 🤦
Sorry for being off topic but have you(Dave and Shan) considered doing a podcast series? I could listen to you guys for hours. For me idk if it's because of ADHD but I learn really well when I listen and can actively do something with my motor functions.
They have a paid class with no ads. It’s like two hours a week. Members only to keep out the whiners and give them enough reliable cash flow to focus time on scaling up
growing a company.. growing a life.. and growing a family; are ALL built on 'the art of letting go' because you need to forget everything you thought you knew. And everything you thought was possible.
I'm Ne and I stopped seeing a need to achieve. Now my Ne is about play and experience without the need to feel like I have to succeed at the new things I explore. Like the videowas saying, I have to ground myself by reminding myself that I'm not here solely for me, but primarily my fulfilment is in serving others. I am served by others and therefore serve others.
As S-Ne, I loved the Winchester Mystery House as a kid. Anyone go there while waiting for a movie to start at the Century 21-23 theaters? (dating myself here, lol) Sara Winchester was a cooky lady. Possibly broken by grief from the death of her only child, then her husband, then her father-in-law, and living in an era where spiritual mediums who promised the ability to communicate with the dead, and after inheriting a fortune, she turned to spiritual mediums to advise her. She became convinced she was cursed and haunted by the ghosts of all those killed by the Winchester rifle. She poured all of her energy, focus, and money into the house. Some of the elaborate designs were meant to appease spirits, while others, like the staircase to nowhere and door that opens into a 3-story drop, were designed to trap or confuse negative energies/vengeful spirits. The paranormal beliefs really became embedded in her. She even wrote her will in 13 sections and signed it 13 times. Much of the original mansion was destroyed in an earthquake. What's left today is a fraction of what madness once was. So in keeping with the metaphor, the craziness you can experience today actually _is_ a simplification of worldview!
Not "attaching a feeling to your identity" is nearly impossible for enneagram type 4s... Especially IPs with a lead identity function. Tell an IxFP not to attach their emotions to their identity! Ha, good luck! This is perhaps why self-pity, attachment to victimhood, what I call "damsel in distress syndrome," and pissing contests over who has suffered more, are common issues for unhealthy enneagram type 4s. Even with a 4-wing I can tell you that when I'm grieving or pissed off and _determined_ to feel sad or angry, nothing and noone can move me out of that emotion -- only myself when I'm ready. This little pep talk from Russell Brand is perhaps reflective of him being a double-decider, no? Easier said than done. The advice is true, but doesn't penetrate some people's defense mechanisms. I once gave the exact same advice to an enneagram type 4 INFP. She became super defensive and lashed out at me, hypocritically telling me I was making assumptions, that I didn't understand the trauma she had been through that prevented her from volunteering or helping others, while simultaneously telling me she knew better because she was older. You can be a catalyst for self-questioning in others, or mirror their behavior back to them to spur reflection (pun intended, but only works on the self-aware), but you can't change people who don't want to change. I think the real shadow work is an endeavor that must be undergone alone. It's something you ultimately have to face yourself. People need to experience their own epiphanies to have meaningful paradigm shifts. At least that's my (biased) perspective. Here's a quote from The Wisdom of the Enneagram (p. 180-182) that may help some Fours out there: "There is a Sufi story that relates to this about an old dog that had been badly abused and was near starvation. One day, the dog found a bone, carried it to a safe spot, and started gnawing away. The dog was so hungry that it chewed on the bone for a long time and got every last bit of nourishment that it could out of it. After some time, a kind old man noticed the dog and its pathetic scrap and began quietly setting food out for it. But the poor hound was so attached to its bone that it refused to let go of it and soon starved to death. Fours are in the same predicament. As long as they believe that there is something fundamentally wrong with them, they cannot allow themselves to experience or enjoy their many good qualities. To acknowledge their good qualities would be to lose their sense of identity (as a suffering victim) and to be without a relatively consistent personal identity (their Basic Fear). Fours grow by learning to see that much of their story is not true-or at least it is not true any more. The old feelings begin to fall away once they stop telling themselves their old tale: it is irrelevant to who they are right now."
A few years back I fell off a career path that I had heavily identified with since childhood. Finding out who I am outside of what I do has very much been a process of rebuilding my “house.” I think there’s a certain level of insight that you can only reach when you lose what you’re most afraid of losing. When your entire house unexpectedly burns to the ground, so to speak. Starting from scratch is scary, but it’s also very liberating. It gives you the chance to move forward with a clean slate and a sense of nihilistic zen.
In my late 20’s, rebuilding that worldview from ground up. My Ne is having a blast. In all seriousness though, it is a very painful and scary process. You are essentially letting go of your old identity/ego, and that identity/ego is what kept you safe, albeit stuck, for so long. You really need to become comfortable with uncertainty.
Same, it's been hard, I sometimes feel like I fall apart because I started questioning everything. I need to start building again and trust the process.
I can relate, a paradigmatic shift is happening in my life and your channel is part of it, rebuilding understanding and calming the judjmental voice inside. Life seems much peaceful on the other side, hopefully we all could appreciate it soon.
All of these rooms are called coping mechanisms. They are unresolved issues, traumas, strongholds that have never been dealt with. Self-pity is simply someone who never allowed themselves to go through the full grieving process from start to finish. They are stuck because they won't deal with it. Going outside of yourself to find another's perspective as Russell Brand suggested can allow you to reframe your own perspective from the past that will allow you to deal with the unresolved room of your enormous fucking Winchester House and start living a simpler more meaningful life rather than filling the void with things/people, deflecting the real problem, sweeping it under the rug, self-pitying, etc. that keeps adding on to your enormous sad house that doesn't give you what you are truly seeking and needing.
I've once read something about not focusing on fixing the old, but on building the new. And it also makes me think about the many years I spent in therapy... not that I didn't get results, but I felt like I was in a huge maze... Working on a new mindset has been proving to be the real game changer. Great video! ❤
holy Jesus. What a frigging analogy. Thank you for that, Dave. Seriously. I have had " Winchester mystery house brain" literally since my actual house/life was destroyed in hurricane Katrina 15 years ago! I don't have grief. Neither do I live in self pity. Because I never allowed myself to grieve my lost life/home. I just sucked it up because others have had it so much worse than I. I know full well that I have survivors remorse because of that. Yes have. Present tense. I have never ever gotten over it. All that feel to heal business, nah. Nope. I can't bring myself to do it. The loss is so acute, bruh. I can't think of it for long. I should be angry at you for digging up bones and provoking ghosts in my mystery house, forcing me to look at my misery in the face. Ive built lots of new cute rooms to live in just to keep all that other crap tucked away buried under sheets and dust. I could have been anywhere in the world, but I was watching this effing video, now I have to decide. Rebury the bones or have it out with myself. Whats it gonna be? Damn you! dave superpowers! stay off my lawn you meddling kids! Edit- When I say I lost life and home in Katrina, It was house home lively hood that I lost. And hometown and blah blah blah. There were those who lost actual lives. Loved ones lives... makes my losses seem insipid. I did not have this terrible loss of life. Just to clarify.
I had a coding job like this once. They wanted quick Band-Aid 🩹 fixes. But I could not stop myself from digging down to the bedrock of the core source of the true problem and fix it properly. That’s much harder. But it’s the only way to actually fix anything for real (or so my mTi would like me to believe)
You reminded me of this passage: "It affords me no satisfaction to commence to spring an arch before I have got a solid foundation. Let us not play at kittly-benders. There is a solid bottom every where. We read that the traveller asked the boy if the swamp before him had a hard bottom. The boy replied that it had. But presently the traveller’s horse sank in up to the girths, and he observed to the boy, “I thought you said that this bog had a hard bottom.” “So it has,” answered the latter, “but you have not got half way to it yet.” So it is with the bogs and quicksands of society; but he is an old boy that knows it. Only what is thought, said, or done at a certain rare coincidence is good. I would not be one of those who will foolishly drive a nail into mere lath and plastering; such a deed would keep me awake nights. Give me a hammer, and let me feel for the furring. Do not depend on the putty. Drive a nail home and clinch it so faithfully that you can wake up in the night and think of your work with satisfaction,-a work at which you would not be ashamed to invoke the Muse. So will help you God, and so only. Every nail driven should be as another rivet in the machine of the universe, you carrying on the work." -Walden, Henry David Thoreau
I feel I am searching for the answer for the life that I desire.. I keep looking for that answer, I have looked for years.. Now I came to realise that life doesn`t need a resolution, doesn`t need a magic pill to make everything right, doesn`t need an easy way out.. You just gotta work.with what you got, and do more..
This is what I'm trying to teach my kids (to varying degrees of success) ... ultimately, your life is up to you. As a parent, I can only teach you habits that have worked for me, and use what I know about you (as my child) to suggest things that might help you achieve what you want. But, in the end, you must figure out what will work for you because no one and nothing else has the answer.
@@dday9433 yeah, noone has it.. I just feel this angst that my life should be different, that I have to fix something. But I just gotta let go and keep going.. I think I have to.build my house from the start now xD ahah. But that is great what you are teaching your kids, because it takes them a lot of pressure, and now they can focus on happiness ans a meaningful life and not about pleasing others..
Fed Up Geo not really. It is quite revealing though. It's not the most pleasant thing to have to acknowledge. The feeling is more so a sense of vulnerability/exposure; Ontologically naked. I would assume that there's a lot of people that avoid the task of going through something like this because of a maladaptive fear to what the process would reveal. If there was a way to resolve the issues that came about, I can see how it would be more liberating. Regardless it's a thing that you have to accept, absorb, and integrate. Similar to a Call of Duty when you prestige.
Finally! This is the right approach - negation of the false. But you've got to keep going. There is more falseness than just self-pity. There are illusions about the source of happiness and illusions throughout society. Keep going! But people assume that some of their beliefs are right. For example, Dave and Shan think that the ideal of becoming an alpha is right and that we must confront our shaddows. End all these false societal ideals. But they are probably too invested and imagine that without those ideals they will have nothing.
While I'm hopefully out of the metaphorical Mystery House, I admittedly would love to get lost in that literal one! :D It sounds like Si-Ne Single Decider dream!
Great metaphor of the house with life issues/challenges. I use to not like Russell Brand, but it was because I saw only one part of him when I first became aware of him. Since then, I've seen some long-format interviews of him, and some where he interviewed other people, and I like who he is now.
Sherlock Holmes: You've never complained about my methods before. Dr. Watson: I'm not complaining. Sherlock Holmes: You're not? What are you right now? Dr. Watson: How am I complaining? I never complain. When do I complain about practicing your violin at three in the morning? Or your mess, your general lack of hygiene or the fact that you steal my clothes? When do I complain about you setting fire to my rooms? Sherlock Holmes: Our rooms. Dr. Watson: The rooms! When do I complain about you performing experiments on my dog?
Wo. This is totally me. I've never realized this. I'm totally the Winchester House. I feel like every experience in my life keeps building and building and piling up on top of itself. It's hard to know what to do with all those last experiences. It confuses me.
Sorry. My intuition bites and I can’t Se or Ti my way to understand. I dug Winchester house as a little kid-thought it would be so cool to go back and explore at midnight sometime. I do like your channel.👍🤙
This is a complicated one. Developing the insight to notice and address your flaws is necessary for happiness. But understanding your own psyche is like trying to stare at the back of your own head. You need a reflection, an outside perspective to see your flaws. Sometimes burning over and starting again is the problem. Some people don’t have any staying power and constantly reinvent themselves. And they aren’t happy. So its a balance i guess. Knowing when to stop flogging the dead horse. Then theres the mortal aspect of it all. As you age, you become less adaptable. Each reinvention takes exponentially more effort then the last and you have less energy to work with. You reach a point in life where its torture to change and you’re despondent if you don’t. Sad axiom of life is that we are a product of hysteresis and it unavoidable. But it can be managed i guess. The real irony here though is dave and shans failure to see how the mystery house analogy applies to there system. Adding all these animals/ masculine feminine/ 512 types to make the instrinsically flawed myers briggs model work. Its a crap system guys... just bin it and start from jung.
This is interesting to think about in the context of Hogwarts School and one's own personal university of the mind: researching the universe, coalescing and understanding as much as possible, then teaching and helping others to understand. Hogwarts, and one's personal university, are constantly under construction, remodeling, and even just moving a stairway.
I know this will sound out of context but I definitely see this behavior with Ti people. They either obsess with the physical things that needs to be replaced but won't because they fear new things or they get obsess with this one process/plan that they think is going to solve all of their problems but in the end it gives them nothing except the illusion of control. I see this within myself sometimes. Like when I am so convince that something like this will work regardless of having new information throw at me.
My issue is unresolved trauma. I've had therapy. Plan on more. But unresolved trauma definitely causes the building of defence mechanisms, the rooms which are the norms, the places we can be. But they don't make sense. They're not a working home so you can't be at home in them. So your mind / house, becomes a prison. I would suggest therapy and OP. ❤
This is true... but its reinventing the wheel you guys....its a common element of most religions to teach letting go and dealing with pain. Some philosophies will say pain/problems isn't real others say its very much real and heres how to deal with it.. Its the number 1 human problem in regards to how do we deal with it.
I used to see self-pity as an identity and actually felt disgust with people who would try to give me advice on how to "get better." I genuinely believed that they were trying to erase ME, that they didn't like who I was and wanted to make me into a person I was not. This went on for years in my late teens/early twenties until I was struck by a thought that felt like lightning: I was walking down my stairs and I suddenly thought, "You are miserable because you want to be miserable." It was true. I'm not talking about depression, btw, which is very real for countless numbers of people. I'm referring to a self-perpetuating "thing" I was doing to myself to qualify reasons for failure in all parts of my life. I decided then and there that I had to stop it. I started taking responsibility for things I did (or didn't do), cut off the crippling critical internal monologue and made myself do things that made me uncomfortable. It wasn't easy. That was about a decade ago and my life has changed completely. I am genuinely happy, negative experiences don't keep me mired in awful thoughts for long, and, strangely, I have a ton more physical energy. It's one of those things that, unless you actually commit to doing it, will feel useless and stupid.
How did you do it?
I haven't always liked Russel Brand, but this message is on point. Self-pity is victimization and it is corrosive as hell to the soul.
Maybe because I am over 40, but just now I have started the whole thing ALL over, like ALL. All of my life, who I was supposed to be is done, burned to ashes. I am literally starting all over and it’s so hard particularly in the professional and social arena because I lost virtually 99% of my friends. At the same time is incredibly liberating.
Go.for it.. Maybe you will find something amazing waiting
this is so cool to hear
I was forced to do this earlier in life than most, due to a curve ball in life. In my early 20s, the world was no longer making sense (Ti-dom) from all the BS we were told growing up. So, about 24 I sat down and started researching. I started with myself: stages of grief, PTSD, coping mechanisms, and their remedies. Once I worked out my own behavior, I jumped into the wider world: politics, the economy, social issues and social cycles, male/female dynamics, personality types and psychology, spirituality, etc. I didn’t stop until the world made sense. I’m now 34, and thank God I updated my model. I sleep like a baby even with all the chaos in the world, right now. It’s difficult work, but worth the lack of stress.
I have a Boomer ENFP aunt that formed her world view in the 60s culture revolutions. She hasn’t updated her model, and to her the world is falling off a cliff; and she’s retreating from everyone. This is everywhere in society, right now. People are split between the old model and denial, and the new world we’re moving into. Hopefully, people learn “The Art of Letting Go”.
Wow so interesting!
I relate to this so much especially because I am a 24 year old Ti-dom and I've had some things that I never really processed that I went through in my late teens. I took pretty much my whole year at 23 to self reflect and figure out what was going on and what I actually believe from politics, religion and spirituality, social dynamics and psychology and more. Through it I realized I need to separate from my parents who supported me for far too long because I allowed them to, always making excuses for why I never finished college, never took responsiblity, why I never looked for a job, and why I never left home. Some excuses more genuine than others and yet the fact of the matter is I was just fucking scared of living life and having to be responsible for myself or others. I wanted a sense of security albeit a false one. I realized that I was gonna be stuck for the rest of my life if I don't make some major changes and that was even more terrifying.
Ultimately I decided it was time to go. I moved out now, I'm working and I'm learning a trade. I'm trying to be responsible for myself and build my own life instead relying solely on others. I'm still 24 so it's early days but it's definitely been the right decision. I need to be independent and make something worth while of my life and build the "Tribe" around me instead of just taking.
Logan Goff Grats, man. I was there. I’ve got 10 yrs on you. For me, as I built that Ti model and identity, things started to get easier and easier. It’s as if you get the foundation built and the house starts building itself. Life will punch you in the face at times, but keep building those understandings, and it gets easier. Also, at 24, it really seems like that 3rd function starts stepping up and helps you navigate the world more effectively. Good luck.
Interesting how you say having a 'good model' of how the world and your place in it works allows you to sleep better. I am the same age as you, and I'm guessing we're both Americans... at least growing up in the US, I know the BS has left our age group feeling betrayed and resentful - I've seen it over and over again with almost everyone I've talked to currently in their late twenties and early thirties. However, I can imagine your aunt formed her beliefs similarly in her early adulthood, and in 30 years time your model will be plagued with outdated specifics and sticking points with some young twenty something shaking their head at your inability to free yourself from old ways of thinking ("old" meaning "no longer popularly accepted or respected" which isn't synonymous with "not applicable").
I was a stubborn and arrogant teenager, and once decided - for one reason or another - that I'd derive my sense of worth based on my ability to make sense of things. I was subject to institutional violence, hypocrisy, and betrayals during childhood from education systems and establishments, government and social services, the family unit, law enforcement and the legal system, and it was nothing new to expect I couldn't trust anyone to give me good guidance or keep me safe. If I did happen upon such a person, they were almost immediately stripped from my life. I came away expecting that no one would take responsibility for all the brokenness, the majority of them unable to even see the harm they caused, which often frightened me more than the ones who knew exactly what harm they were doing.
I thought perhaps I could ask the right questions and make accurate observations, I could find the answers myself... become the accountable one. Ultimately, making sense of things meant that I could have the chance to exercise agency over circumstances and exploit knowledge to influence outcomes for the better. Being so armed, I could remain safe even though I felt alone. I could protect people I cared about, people who were being abused and mistreated. I could stop injustices. I could realize awesome things into this world.
Then, after rather brutal events that left me helpless beyond what I could emotionally handle, I came to realize 1) there were some things that would break me to understand, and 2) even understanding a situation does not guarantee I can change the outcome. I had to rebuild my sense of self after confronting those realizations. Now, perhaps unfortunately, I operate under the assumption that a world-view is only as good as it mitigates the risks of 1 and 2. A belief system, a model of the world, it is only a tool... not a vehicle for truth or self-worth.
Reinventing a world-view is letting go in a sense, but it is also pursuit for the same old thing - yet another tiresome structure to wrap one's sense of identity and security around. Having this relentless drive to figure it all out in order to gain stability has been the most painful thing to hold onto in my life. Not letting go becomes the stability in itself, after a while, even when my fingers grow numb and cold, bloodless. I'm honestly not sure if I'll ever be able to escape this castle I've built... but, I will keep trying. At least you can sleep.
@@Sharkuterie327 I am American.
1st and Last Paragraph: Good point about how models become outdated. Agreed that’s how many of the older generations see it and why our generation is so resentful. They take a snapshot view and never change it. There’s an “out” to the nihilism trap, though; that is if you realize that reality is cyclical in nature. Many cycles are at work in our world. If you can understand where you are in the current cycles, you can understand where you are going, thus leads to a more flexible “worldview”, and out of the nihilism trap. Everything is a cycle. Read The Fourth Turning. That should get you started.
2nd & 3rd: I am sorry you fell into the system. I truly am. My mother is a social worker. I heard the stories she has told about absolute incompetence of the naive kind and....of the more sinister kind... Sounds like you had a front row seat to what happens when the family unit is destroyed. These kind of stories are what’s needed these days. Some good can come out of it.
4th: Some truths are difficult to swallow, but that doesn’t make them false. The day a gazelle realizes he’s pray, is probably not an easy day, but if he doesn’t accept this truth, he dies. Reality sucks, sometimes, but it still “is”.
I can’t speak too much to a “Belief System”, as I work with Ti instead of Fi, however, I did in my twenties fall into the nihilist trap. I realized quickly, though that nihilism was due to a hole, or “missing block” of identity. Healthy people, after all, do not fall into despair. For me, finding spiritually filled that hole (not Religion, which is just another BS belief system). Maybe you can use that.
One thing I would warn (if you’re an ENFP), though, is to face your past experiences, process them, and get through them. My Aunt had a very difficult childhood with very Si concepts being shoved down her throat at an early age. Since Si is her 4th function and where her fear resides, this has caused her many problems later in life, as she never came to terms with it.
You write beautifully, btw. Good luck to you.
This is beautiful!! It reminds me of this quote:
"Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think that you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong." Ayn Rand
I wish I can say that I'm out of it, but I finally realized that my neurotic mind likes to mentally prepare for the worst and takes it too far. I need to find a way to volunteer again without it disrupting my studies. Im fostering some animals tomorrow so I hope that helps. When I volunteered that in the past (like every Saturday, not a one and done) I felt so much better focusing my time on someone else, that I d
Got out of that rut" I need to do this or that, omg I have like no time to get that done!" and that nonesense slowly fades. Its always an honor to serve others, it's a privilege to do so in whatever way I want. Even the way I organized Imy room is becoming more cluttered, I'm always itching to throw a section of stuff out only to find more tninks to organize into a category. I need to volunteer again, it readjusts my perspective just like I did my values.
P.S. Shan, how did you start that questioning process?
Practicing gratitude also helps because it releases serotonin and dopamine. 🙏🏽
Shan: let me talk for two seconds
Dave: 1,2 done now I talk!
Some videos are Dave driven, some are Shan driven. This is a Dave one
I was thinking this too, but more that Shan kept interrupting Dave. I want to hear the entire thought before the next person begins their interpretation. Sometimes I'm really into the build up but then.... Interruption. I'm like, "but wait I want to hear more about that idea!" Maybe it's just me 🤦
Shan is just less talkative, that's completely normal as long as their both fine with it
Sorry for being off topic but have you(Dave and Shan) considered doing a podcast series? I could listen to you guys for hours. For me idk if it's because of ADHD but I learn really well when I listen and can actively do something with my motor functions.
I second this
They have a paid class with no ads. It’s like two hours a week. Members only to keep out the whiners and give them enough reliable cash flow to focus time on scaling up
I learn the same way
growing a company.. growing a life.. and growing a family; are ALL built on 'the art of letting go' because you need to forget everything you thought you knew. And everything you thought was possible.
I'm Ne and I stopped seeing a need to achieve. Now my Ne is about play and experience without the need to feel like I have to succeed at the new things I explore.
Like the videowas saying, I have to ground myself by reminding myself that I'm not here solely for me, but primarily my fulfilment is in serving others. I am served by others and therefore serve others.
As S-Ne, I loved the Winchester Mystery House as a kid. Anyone go there while waiting for a movie to start at the Century 21-23 theaters? (dating myself here, lol)
Sara Winchester was a cooky lady. Possibly broken by grief from the death of her only child, then her husband, then her father-in-law, and living in an era where spiritual mediums who promised the ability to communicate with the dead, and after inheriting a fortune, she turned to spiritual mediums to advise her. She became convinced she was cursed and haunted by the ghosts of all those killed by the Winchester rifle. She poured all of her energy, focus, and money into the house. Some of the elaborate designs were meant to appease spirits, while others, like the staircase to nowhere and door that opens into a 3-story drop, were designed to trap or confuse negative energies/vengeful spirits. The paranormal beliefs really became embedded in her. She even wrote her will in 13 sections and signed it 13 times.
Much of the original mansion was destroyed in an earthquake. What's left today is a fraction of what madness once was. So in keeping with the metaphor, the craziness you can experience today actually _is_ a simplification of worldview!
Not "attaching a feeling to your identity" is nearly impossible for enneagram type 4s... Especially IPs with a lead identity function. Tell an IxFP not to attach their emotions to their identity! Ha, good luck! This is perhaps why self-pity, attachment to victimhood, what I call "damsel in distress syndrome," and pissing contests over who has suffered more, are common issues for unhealthy enneagram type 4s. Even with a 4-wing I can tell you that when I'm grieving or pissed off and _determined_ to feel sad or angry, nothing and noone can move me out of that emotion -- only myself when I'm ready. This little pep talk from Russell Brand is perhaps reflective of him being a double-decider, no? Easier said than done. The advice is true, but doesn't penetrate some people's defense mechanisms. I once gave the exact same advice to an enneagram type 4 INFP. She became super defensive and lashed out at me, hypocritically telling me I was making assumptions, that I didn't understand the trauma she had been through that prevented her from volunteering or helping others, while simultaneously telling me she knew better because she was older. You can be a catalyst for self-questioning in others, or mirror their behavior back to them to spur reflection (pun intended, but only works on the self-aware), but you can't change people who don't want to change. I think the real shadow work is an endeavor that must be undergone alone. It's something you ultimately have to face yourself. People need to experience their own epiphanies to have meaningful paradigm shifts. At least that's my (biased) perspective.
Here's a quote from The Wisdom of the Enneagram (p. 180-182) that may help some Fours out there:
"There is a Sufi story that relates to this about an old dog that had been badly abused and was near starvation. One day, the dog found a bone, carried it to a safe spot, and started gnawing away. The dog was so hungry that it chewed on the bone for a long time and got every last bit of nourishment that it could out of it. After some time, a kind old man noticed the dog and its pathetic scrap and began quietly setting food out for it. But the poor hound was so attached to its bone that it refused to let go of it and soon starved to death.
Fours are in the same predicament. As long as they believe that there is something fundamentally wrong with them, they cannot allow themselves to experience or enjoy their many good qualities. To acknowledge their good qualities would be to lose their sense of identity (as a suffering victim) and to be without a relatively consistent personal identity (their Basic Fear). Fours grow by learning to see that much of their story is not true-or at least it is not true any more. The old feelings begin to fall away once they stop telling themselves their old tale: it is irrelevant to who they are right now."
Very interesting perspective. Must investigate further. Infp (possibly lead sleep) 4w5
A few years back I fell off a career path that I had heavily identified with since childhood. Finding out who I am outside of what I do has very much been a process of rebuilding my “house.” I think there’s a certain level of insight that you can only reach when you lose what you’re most afraid of losing. When your entire house unexpectedly burns to the ground, so to speak. Starting from scratch is scary, but it’s also very liberating. It gives you the chance to move forward with a clean slate and a sense of nihilistic zen.
In my late 20’s, rebuilding that worldview from ground up. My Ne is having a blast. In all seriousness though, it is a very painful and scary process. You are essentially letting go of your old identity/ego, and that identity/ego is what kept you safe, albeit stuck, for so long. You really need to become comfortable with uncertainty.
❤ love this comment
Same, it's been hard, I sometimes feel like I fall apart because I started questioning everything. I need to start building again and trust the process.
This is brilliant. I love this analogy so so much.
I can relate, a paradigmatic shift is happening in my life and your channel is part of it, rebuilding understanding and calming the judjmental voice inside. Life seems much peaceful on the other side, hopefully we all could appreciate it soon.
All of these rooms are called coping mechanisms. They are unresolved issues, traumas, strongholds that have never been dealt with. Self-pity is simply someone who never allowed themselves to go through the full grieving process from start to finish. They are stuck because they won't deal with it. Going outside of yourself to find another's perspective as Russell Brand suggested can allow you to reframe your own perspective from the past that will allow you to deal with the unresolved room of your enormous fucking Winchester House and start living a simpler more meaningful life rather than filling the void with things/people, deflecting the real problem, sweeping it under the rug, self-pitying, etc. that keeps adding on to your enormous sad house that doesn't give you what you are truly seeking and needing.
I've once read something about not focusing on fixing the old, but on building the new. And it also makes me think about the many years I spent in therapy... not that I didn't get results, but I felt like I was in a huge maze... Working on a new mindset has been proving to be the real game changer. Great video! ❤
I've been there! Lot of stairs and 13 hooks for coats and stuff
holy Jesus. What a frigging analogy. Thank you for that, Dave. Seriously. I have had " Winchester mystery house brain" literally since my actual house/life was destroyed in hurricane Katrina 15 years ago! I don't have grief. Neither do I live in self pity. Because I never allowed myself to grieve my lost life/home. I just sucked it up because others have had it so much worse than I. I know full well that I have survivors remorse because of that. Yes have. Present tense. I have never ever gotten over it. All that feel to heal business, nah. Nope.
I can't bring myself to do it. The loss is so acute, bruh. I can't think of it for long. I should be angry at you for digging up bones and provoking ghosts in my mystery house, forcing me to look at my misery in the face. Ive built lots of new cute rooms to live in just to keep all that other crap tucked away buried under sheets and dust. I could have been anywhere in the world, but I was watching this effing video, now I have to decide. Rebury the bones or have it out with myself. Whats it gonna be? Damn you! dave superpowers! stay off my lawn you meddling kids!
Edit- When I say I lost life and home in Katrina, It was house home lively hood that I lost. And hometown and blah blah blah. There were those who lost actual lives. Loved ones lives... makes my losses seem insipid. I did not have this terrible loss of life. Just to clarify.
Yes yes yes.
I've done some letting go recently out of lockdown induced anxiety and pettiness.
I pray I continue going.
Personality hacker has a great podcast episode about this. The like between self care and self indulgence is accountability
I had a coding job like this once. They wanted quick Band-Aid 🩹 fixes. But I could not stop myself from digging down to the bedrock of the core source of the true problem and fix it properly.
That’s much harder. But it’s the only way to actually fix anything for real (or so my mTi would like me to believe)
You reminded me of this passage: "It affords me no satisfaction to commence to spring an arch before I have got a solid foundation. Let us not play at kittly-benders. There is a solid bottom every where. We read that the traveller asked the boy if the swamp before him had a hard bottom. The boy replied that it had. But presently the traveller’s horse sank in up to the girths, and he observed to the boy, “I thought you said that this bog had a hard bottom.” “So it has,” answered the latter, “but you have not got half way to it yet.” So it is with the bogs and quicksands of society; but he is an old boy that knows it. Only what is thought, said, or done at a certain rare coincidence is good. I would not be one of those who will foolishly drive a nail into mere lath and plastering; such a deed would keep me awake nights. Give me a hammer, and let me feel for the furring. Do not depend on the putty. Drive a nail home and clinch it so faithfully that you can wake up in the night and think of your work with satisfaction,-a work at which you would not be ashamed to invoke the Muse. So will help you God, and so only. Every nail driven should be as another rivet in the machine of the universe, you carrying on the work." -Walden, Henry David Thoreau
@@Sharkuterie327 that's awesome! And very accurate
I feel I am searching for the answer for the life that I desire.. I keep looking for that answer, I have looked for years..
Now I came to realise that life doesn`t need a resolution, doesn`t need a magic pill to make everything right, doesn`t need an easy way out..
You just gotta work.with what you got, and do more..
❤️
This is what I'm trying to teach my kids (to varying degrees of success) ... ultimately, your life is up to you. As a parent, I can only teach you habits that have worked for me, and use what I know about you (as my child) to suggest things that might help you achieve what you want. But, in the end, you must figure out what will work for you because no one and nothing else has the answer.
@@dday9433 yeah, noone has it..
I just feel this angst that my life should be different, that I have to fix something.
But I just gotta let go and keep going..
I think I have to.build my house from the start now xD ahah.
But that is great what you are teaching your kids, because it takes them a lot of pressure, and now they can focus on happiness ans a meaningful life and not about pleasing others..
Wow, this was really powerful. Thank you both for doing what you do.
I remember when I burned down my meta-house. It took 2 years to finally be gone.
justdontlovemyself
The meta-physical/metaphorical "house" that's inside my head.
Kinda freeing, isn’t it? #meta-vanlife.
Fed Up Geo not really. It is quite revealing though. It's not the most pleasant thing to have to acknowledge. The feeling is more so a sense of vulnerability/exposure; Ontologically naked.
I would assume that there's a lot of people that avoid the task of going through something like this because of a maladaptive fear to what the process would reveal. If there was a way to resolve the issues that came about, I can see how it would be more liberating.
Regardless it's a thing that you have to accept, absorb, and integrate. Similar to a Call of Duty when you prestige.
"I shall refine you in a furnace of suffering" - from Isaiah (my favorite profit and not just because he was a nudist)
Finally! This is the right approach - negation of the false. But you've got to keep going. There is more falseness than just self-pity. There are illusions about the source of happiness and illusions throughout society. Keep going! But people assume that some of their beliefs are right. For example, Dave and Shan think that the ideal of becoming an alpha is right and that we must confront our shaddows. End all these false societal ideals. But they are probably too invested and imagine that without those ideals they will have nothing.
"it's like frankensteining" - Shan. .... Yessssssss
While I'm hopefully out of the metaphorical Mystery House, I admittedly would love to get lost in that literal one! :D It sounds like Si-Ne Single Decider dream!
What's your type? Sounds like a dream for Fi/Ne me as well.
@@biboba604 I was unofficially typed as SiFe but Dave wasn't sure about my Observers so I could also be NeFe.
Great metaphor of the house with life issues/challenges. I use to not like Russell Brand, but it was because I saw only one part of him when I first became aware of him. Since then, I've seen some long-format interviews of him, and some where he interviewed other people, and I like who he is now.
Sherlock Holmes: You've never complained about my methods before.
Dr. Watson: I'm not complaining.
Sherlock Holmes: You're not? What are you right now?
Dr. Watson: How am I complaining? I never complain. When do I complain about practicing your violin at three in the morning? Or your mess, your general lack of hygiene or the fact that you steal my clothes? When do I complain about you setting fire to my rooms?
Sherlock Holmes: Our rooms.
Dr. Watson: The rooms! When do I complain about you performing experiments on my dog?
bahhaha.. excellent stuff
Russel brand snuck into my Fi a fair few years ago now and I know he will he staying there.
Quality content guys.
Needed this. THANKS.
I have watched this video once a week since it was posted. -INFP
I just drove past the exit on 280 and noticed the sign for this coocoo birds house
He`s awesome..
Great video!! Thank you 😀
Wo. This is totally me. I've never realized this. I'm totally the Winchester House. I feel like every experience in my life keeps building and building and piling up on top of itself. It's hard to know what to do with all those last experiences. It confuses me.
Ne(collecting entrances for the sake of collecting): Where they may lead to? None of my business.
Ne(for one sec): Are we also in the same time keeping too many problems? Don't know. Need more information for that question.
Sorry. My intuition bites and I can’t Se or Ti my way to understand. I dug Winchester house as a little kid-thought it would be so cool to go back and explore at midnight sometime. I do like your channel.👍🤙
This is a complicated one. Developing the insight to notice and address your flaws is necessary for happiness.
But understanding your own psyche is like trying to stare at the back of your own head. You need a reflection, an outside perspective to see your flaws.
Sometimes burning over and starting again is the problem. Some people don’t have any staying power and constantly reinvent themselves. And they aren’t happy. So its a balance i guess. Knowing when to stop flogging the dead horse.
Then theres the mortal aspect of it all. As you age, you become less adaptable. Each reinvention takes exponentially more effort then the last and you have less energy to work with. You reach a point in life where its torture to change and you’re despondent if you don’t.
Sad axiom of life is that we are a product of hysteresis and it unavoidable. But it can be managed i guess.
The real irony here though is dave and shans failure to see how the mystery house analogy applies to there system. Adding all these animals/ masculine feminine/ 512 types to make the instrinsically flawed myers briggs model work. Its a crap system guys... just bin it and start from jung.
perfect insight my man. Let me guess: you happen to be an INTP or INFJ?
Heitor S S Appreciate the compliment. Theres no such thing as either. That’s the issue.
To literally burn down all this stuff one has accumulated inside over a lifespan I can highly recommend looking into Vipassana Meditation
This is interesting to think about in the context of Hogwarts School and one's own personal university of the mind: researching the universe, coalescing and understanding as much as possible, then teaching and helping others to understand. Hogwarts, and one's personal university, are constantly under construction, remodeling, and even just moving a stairway.
YES!! This is soooo good!!!!
basically, you nailed the concept of complexes
True
The Gordian Knot!!
So me rn. But I see it more as refusing to compromise.
Reminds me of ‘What Remains of Edith Finch’ the video game
I know this will sound out of context but I definitely see this behavior with Ti people. They either obsess with the physical things that needs to be replaced but won't because they fear new things or they get obsess with this one process/plan that they think is going to solve all of their problems but in the end it gives them nothing except the illusion of control.
I see this within myself sometimes. Like when I am so convince that something like this will work regardless of having new information throw at me.
That's a Oi thing. Sounds like you are deacribing Ni (with Ti). Those who are Ti but with Ne for ecample won't have this problem.
Easier said than done when you're talking about traumas. Unresolved issues and grudges depend on the individual.
My issue is unresolved trauma. I've had therapy. Plan on more. But unresolved trauma definitely causes the building of defence mechanisms, the rooms which are the norms, the places we can be. But they don't make sense. They're not a working home so you can't be at home in them. So your mind / house, becomes a prison. I would suggest therapy and OP.
❤
i cant relate, but i can
oh man i can relate so much
_synchronistic mathematics_
🌿🌾🐡
We are our own guru.
I’m about about to let my Fe beast out for a minute. DAVE & SHAN...🤗🤗💞💞💞💞💞💞💞💞💞💞💞💞💞💞💞💞💞💞💞💞💞💞💞💞💞💞💞💞💞💞💞💞
russle brand reminds me of jordan peterson
good stuff
❤🥰❤ love this.
This is true... but its reinventing the wheel you guys....its a common element of most religions to teach letting go and dealing with pain. Some philosophies will say pain/problems isn't real others say its very much real and heres how to deal with it.. Its the number 1 human problem in regards to how do we deal with it.
you think psychedelics help with this letting go process? I feel they allow me to shed a new skin and start with a fresh look towards the future
According to my own self-typing, I'm an FM Ni/Te BPCS INTJ. What do I do to let go? I don't want to fall into that trap again
Treat it like trash.
Would you make a video on Putin please ?
Thx
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I look like Russell Brand... What's his type?
+
But building the same one size fits all house over and over again is boooooooooooring.
Lol. Take it from a fat girl, one size fits all is a big fat lie. 😆😆
All the ISFJ's types... listen up....