Well Pump Electrical System Troubleshooting. Step by Step Tutorial.
Vložit
- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
- H2o-Mechanic Online Store
www.h2o-mechan...
Order Direct from Us.
This video gives you a step by step testing method to help figure out why your well pump may not be work. This episode is dedicated to the wiring & the issues that can arise.
Donations are Happily Accepted as a way of saying Thank you for saving time & money!
Links to Common Water Well System Products
20 Gallon Bladder Tank amzn.to/3AarHhX
40/60 Pressure Switch amzn.to/3QyJMeO
Brass Tank T Manifold Kit amzn.to/3p89gUY
1/2 Hp 240v Pump 150ft Max Pumping Depth amzn.to/3zGY3iZ
Rubber Tape for Wire amzn.to/3vSR1GI
Wire Splice Kit amzn.to/3A7U68q
#wellwater #well #welldrilling #wellpump #plumbing #plumber #viralvideo #explorer #teaching #tradesman #welldriller #submersiblewaterpump #waterpressure #selfemployed #familybusiness
I am not an expert on well pumps, have worked on a few, both jet and submersible, grew up with a jet in the home and at 12 years old knew how to prime it. Have nearly an EE degree and experience equivalent and my expertise is troubleshooting and computer programming. The troubleshooting on this is 100%. I have not seen anyone do a video as good on that, just following the steps and thinking is great for someone to learn from, no matter what they are trouble shooting. He may not have ever read Kepner Trego Decision/Problem analysis, the best book on this but he follows the steps - did not cost the customer failed "fixes", did not jump to cause that causes failed fixes, and probably took less than 15 minutes longer total to get a good result. Any failed fix would have cost much more. The meter replacement when he questioned measurement is a GREAT step. Proceeding with bad information is heading to a failed fix. The only bad decision in this was using the old wire to pull in but quite frankly, I would have either done a resistance check of that or done what he did - probably done what he did. The resistance check would have told me the wire was shorted but I still may have tried to use it as a pull. I was vacillating on that when I was watching.
I have nothing but respect for his work. If I needed his services he would be on the top of the list for being called.
You Sir I respect to the fullest as well for such a great comment! Alot of what I do in my Videos is to help others. I did all the steps that anyone else would have to do, (even though I knew the problem about halfway through the job) I wanted to show proper step by step test method to rule out other areas. So many different variables on these systems, but I'm new to shooting video and editing but slowly am getting better at that as well. Making a Video requires alot more time on the job & customers think ill add that onto labor costs (which I never do) . This job total was I believe under $400. It's hard to say what others would charge, but I try to do my best work & be as fair as possible. Thanks again for your words!
That breaker box is scary. Edited; after seeing the rest of the place, wow, just wow.
Excellent diagnostic troubleshooting. There will always be armchair generals who doubt what you say, but you solved the problem and got the water going. Now, whoever was running those electrical lines, they need talking to.
Hi. The way you teach makes things easy. Thank you very much.
I'm really enjoying your videos! Thanks for taking the time to video and explain the well repairs you're doing. I do quite a bit of electrical work and can add something to this! That wire failure is a mess but not unheard-of. What you are seeing are two places in the cable which have suffered insulation failure and had an arc fault. This happens when the insulation breaks down chemically (for some reason) and becomes conductive. The damaged insulation provides a current path from one conductor to the other; or from one conductor to ground. This conductive path starts out gradually in most cases, but as the current passes through the damaged insulation it causes more and more damage which accumulates over time. This causes an increasing current flow through the damaged insulation. The problem "snowballs" as more current flows and accelerates the damage. Finally, so much current flows that it produces heat and starts to burn and carbonize the insulation. This is very conductive and results in an arc and high fault currents. Envision a shower of sparks and a breaker trip. Often the arc will continue until the breaker trips, but may not re-strike after the breaker is reset. This is because the burned insulation has been completely blown clear of the copper wires, removing the short temporarily. It is possible for the bare copper conductors to continue carrying power and the circuit to function after this event has happened, as long as the copper isn't actually touching or broken in half. This can allow for multiple damage points in one cable, as you found. This means that there has been a series of "mystery breaker trips" for this circuit where they keep resetting without locating the fault.
The cable was almost certainly damaged during installation as they pulled it through the abandoned water line. The inside of that line may have even had fittings and couplings in it, with solder slag or who knows what. Once the insulation is scraped and gets a pinhole; water will seep slowly into the cable and start conducting current and breaking down the insulation. It may take hours, days, or years for it to manifest its self as an arc fault. When we install new cables in industry, we often use an insulation resistance test (Megger test) to search for pinholes in the insulation after installing new cables. This can help detect problems before they become bad. But it doesn't always catch everything; especially if the damaged cable has not had time to absorb water.
If you wanted to locate this without the risk of repeatedly closing the breaker into a fault, you can use your meter in resistance mode (ohms) to make the same test you made. Measure resistance between the live wires at the breaker (with breaker off.) Once you isolate the fault, the resistance will go away and you will have an open circuit with no continuity at all. The meter will go from showing ohms of resistance to showing "open" "OL" or something like that. It will save you from potentially wearing out a breaker. Plus you can use the meter from anywhere in the system. You could disconnect the circuit at the pressure switch and measure resistance back toward the breaker panel, to eliminate that wire as a possible cause; or use it toward the well, to confirm that the fault is in that direction.
Also; I love that old Philco fridge in the basement! I've been restoring them for several years and the Philco models are well loved by many. That is likely a late 40's or early 50's model.
Me and my wife were at a remote cabin and the well pump died on us first day of a seven day stay. Your videos taught me enough to get the pump back up an running and helped us out tons!
EXCELLENT critical thinking and problem solving. I tend to agree on the lightening strike theory. I mean what are the odds of having not only one but TWO bad spots in a wire. Well done.
Many may think that a lightening surge would mean that the power distribution (power company) wires took a hit. Lightening hitting a tree, fence, or the ground itself near the buried copper wire chase will find that copper to be a better conductor than surface loam of the earth, so a tremendous current will jump onto the pipe, and then to the wire inside it. The wire insulation breaks down at a very low voltage as compared to lightening, so what happened would be expected. I suspect the wire was damaged FIRST followed by vaporizing of the contacts at the pressure switch. If the pressure switch had not acted as a fuse, further damage inside the home would likely have resulted.
We had a lightening strike on the phone line years ago. The phone line wire casing was unharmed but the wires in at were vaporized, it was a hollow tube. It also got my computer and the surge suppressor it was attached to
I noticed that at the very end of your video analyzing the problemthat a pop-up blurb "Or was it [lightning bolt symbol]" appeared. A lightning strike is what I was anxious to suggest, but you beat me too it!
Very unusual to have two burnt spots 30 feet apart on the same wire and circuit.
Fine videos, great work ethic, nimble mind at work - more fun than watching sporting events on TV. Thank you.
I can't believe you don't have more subscribers. These are the very best well pump videos on CZcams, in my opinion. I just signed up!
People have to share my content in-order for me to grow. Or they have to have water problems lol
good diagnostics, I agree on the lightning strike as the cause, and the metal pipe was "ground" in several spots, lightning always goes to ground and that opened the insulation allowing the direct shorts you found and that makes sense to me......again, you do a great job explaining things.
I agree with a lightning strike since there is a big lightning attractor just behind the well that is 75 feet high. Great video, you divided and conquered the problem.
Good job. The only thing I was waiting for was an early ohm reading on the wires both switch to panel and switch to well area with the ends disconnected of course. This would have ascertained the short was in the underground wire early in the video.
The way you explained the troubleshooting in this video was terrific. I feel like this pretty much covers most electrical troubleshooting. I have learned so much about my well on a property I purchased.
Make that 1501 who is dedicated , I am watching one video after another and i don't do that to often , and learning alot I might say !!
That's excellent troubleshooting. I don't envy professionals like yourself, who have to work on disasters like this. There are dozens of electrical code violations at that house, and you somehow need to get the guy water without having to tear down the whole house and redo everything. A pro electrician would not be allowed to overlook some of the egregious errors like poor routing, no fittings for wires going into the panel, loose coils of live Romex dangling where animals move, and inadequate wire protection until it gets to the 18" deep level. An electrical inspector might condemn the whole house. Great decision to redig a new path. He needs at least 18" with overlying pressure treated wood, or more if vehicles drive over the run.
He's a 25 y/o trying to do everything himself & has a older guy helping him out. I'm sure things will look better in time. He just can't afford a true licensed electrician. But I agree with you, you'd be surprised at some jobs I find worse than this.
Thanks for your videos they are so enlightening. I have been binge watching for the past week.
Im sure that 30amp breaker didn't help. 12/2 shouldn't be on a 30 but on a 20amp
Size of wire has nothing to do with tripping. It is an over sized breaker but that wouldn't cause it to trip.
It’s only gonna pull what it demands so unless the pump goes bad and draws excess current it’s all fine. It’s not okay tho but with the current draw I saw in the video it should be on a 20 for sure and in case the pump goes bad.
If it was not a lightning strike, I can only suggest that the cable had been knocked about before it was used, I mean I have a fair amount of cable that's outside that I'd think twice before using !
@@ChillyDippersit absolutely could. Motor seizes or impeller or rotor becomes locked (by any number of means including mineral deposit buildup, failure of one of those components, even sediment infiltration) causing the motor to continually draw more and more amperage in its attempt to begin rotation. This overloading would be attained due to the over sizing of the breaker. The conductor size is only rated for 20. They over rate a bit but not another 50% of the current load. This would cause the insulation to heat excessively, causing it to become scorched, brittle and lose its insulative properties. It would also create this same phenomenon with the wiring AND the motor windings themselves inside the motor housing.. This in turn would then allow the conductors encased within to be able to allow an electrical arc to bridge the void between either through proximity or even moisture present, and also enable them to short to ground by arc bridging to something like metal casing sleeve and even to water itself present on the sleeve itself or motor, so either from drawing excessive amperage past the 30 point (which is plausible but unlikely without causing something to ignite first) but entirely possible and even likely through the overheating of the conductors and wiring and windings in the motor itself
@@sheepishmclemmingston5550 no it absolutely can't. However it would prevent the wires from getting overly hot in the situations you bring up.
Over sized cables do not cause excessive current flow. Fuses, breakers, and thermal overload do.
Where have you been all my life? In watching 3 videos so far, I have learned like 9000% more. I do not want to make a cheesy post about subscribing (I did subscribe) but wanted to thank you again for showing how to diagnose these things so that I either A- do not get swindled by people selling me purple unicorns or B - I can actually fix myself. This video specifically is about topic that I am about to undertake. My breaker keeps tripping so I have been working all angles and checking amperages and all this other stuff and only thing left is the wire. I ordered 300ft of conduit + 250 ft of wire (only need 180). Looking forward to tackling this with far more confidence.
Thank you, it was enjoyable to watch you trouble shoot, but still be professional and educational. My breaker would stay tripped...changed the switch, still trip, ( prior to watching your video). Watched your video, so I disconnect the pump...poof issue found. Changed the pump out, and water, no tripping. Stay safe, keep helping with the info videos.
Great video and real world experience! I agree with you 100% I think when the wire was originally pulled it must have got nicked and between corrosion, water, and age it started to slowly Arc until it got out of hand. Thanks for taking the time to video it. And you're one Brave man to go down in that basement alone with that dog LOL
10-4 on the dog
Another great video. Love your content and the fact that you use the "KISS" logic on everything you do. Becoming one of my favorite channels.
I love it! This is pretty EPIC. My wiring looks like that going all the way down to the pump. Only 3 years old. Looks like a scene from a horror movie. I was told a surge or lightening caused it.
Good logical trouble shooting and explanation.
They probably Chaffed the insulation off that wire by pulling it through the Galvanized pipe from day one it was only a matter of time before it failed completely (which shouldn't have been done). UF wire AKA Underground feeder wire is direct burial. That house is a wiring nightmare home owner electrician special. Great job diagnosing.
.
I saw how much of mess and disorder the wiring and plumbing were in this video. Even when I pulled temporary outlets, my wiring was always organized
The wiring in that place looks like a bird nest. Everything you did is a vast improvement 👍
Thanks for the video. Just bought a small ranch property and the well system is 20 years old
I had the local guy do the inspection and give us info on what it needs and I’m going to DIY the updating.
Your videos have shined some light on things for me. 🤘🏼
Measure resistance to ground and between the wires. That will tell you if you have a short.
as a mechanic of 50 years working on trucks i have seen the same problem in d c circuits my way is to always shroud or put the wire in conduit and if ever most likely not you could pull a new circuit through a conduit thank you and you have had a fantastic teacher as i have had my father james fauth thank you i enjoy watching your videos
Thanks! Just invested in property that has well. No one has lived in twenty years. The home is on 111 acres and the well is on top of the highest hill next to home. I watched about twenty of your incredibly informative clips and did the pebble test drop . After 4 seconds heard a bump hitting something , then kaplunk of hitting water. About 5 or six seconds. No power turned on at house yet so waiting on getting a professional involved. I sure wish you lived near.
Thank you for being so thorough in your videos I’m learning a lot and enjoying seeing how hard you work. “ it’s fun to watch folks work hard!” :) hope you make your 100k subscribers … I’m amazed you do this video work most always by yourself. Prayers for your safety and success. Peter
Some time ago i had a similar problem on a large machine that cools down and stack fresh rubber sheets. The protection switch on one of the larger motors (9KW/~12HP) always trips. After some time i discovery the bad part of the wire in a cable canal in the control cabinet of the machine. The problem was that the canal was full of active wires from other motors. The heat can't get away until the isolation melts.
In your case the cable was alone in a metal tube wich even works a bit as a heat exchanger. So the cause was mechanical force and you decided right to not reuse the tube.
The fault detection method used I called "Bob the tail" , keep shortening the "tail" from load to breaker. I also used a method I called "½ & ½" , when you have multiple loads go to the one in the middle and break the circuit, test, if still bad go to the middle of what's left and repeat. If 1st test is good, reconnect half of the untested half, if still good, repeat. I've done this with pole lamps around a complex and it saved me a lot of digging with the "Bob the tail" method.
Excellent job as usual. I'man old electrician and am very impressed how you diagnosed this, have a steak and a beer on me. Check's in the mail.
Great job of diagnosis & fixing the two problems! 🤩🤩
Do you ever use a megger to test each winding to ground, each supply wire to ground, and to each other?
That would be the proper way to do it.
Before anyone jumps on it the wire he used is rated for direct burial/sun light resistant, you can tell by its dark gray insulation color.
I have learned so much from you in such a short period of time. I sure wish you were located in South Carolina. I feel like the well company here local to me lied to me not once but twice. They took my money and I still had to call another plumber back to finish the job.
great job as a lic plumber i love well work and good people how know what there doing !!! hello from leak master plumbing in ct
Good process of elimination. Always enjoy your videos.
To replace the wire use a steel chase wire so you can push the wire through
This was a great tutorial to folks that say "WHY" , why did it just quite now just while I was working around the electrical panel , or the yard ... The inside of the pip may have a joiner in it that was THE CLOSE ground to short with water / lightning . Keep up the good videos and have a safe time working !
Good job! I am not a electrician, I just wondered if you could have just done a continuity test to find broken wires..
Disconnect them on the switch and at the well if you have continuity on any of the wires it is shorted
yes, it was a lightning strike. probably to that tower. i bet there is a pipe from the well to the tower pump.
Great video, It's great that you find the problem and not just patch it for the next guy, which in your case would be you most likely. the problem might have been the wire got scraped thin while being pulled through that water pipe (not conduit).
have a great day
Great attitude and spirit. I subscribed thanks from Sc
It's possible that when the wire was on the reel, it was damaged some way, which is why it is damaged in relatively close proximity, then it was pulled through the underground pipe without the damaged being noticed. I assume there can be no movement of the wire in the pipe. If there was intermittent water infiltration into the metal pipe, then the power could have been shorting out in those areas, and since it IS a metal pipe. The water would leave the pipe, but over time as the scenario repeated itself, the wire became more and more compromised, then finally went to a dead short to ground. Where I am it is mandated that only schedule 80 PVC pipe can be used to run underground wiring through. The same type of pipe is used to carry the water. You use excellent procedures in your videos. They are most informative and helpful.
Excellent video! We have well water so I'm subscribing to your channel.
The reasons the contact was closing into the fault - so that's why the breaker should changed also
As an old electrical contractor, one of two things, lighting by asking the customer if they had one and well stopped after, if not that wire got nicked and took water this long for it to find it.. It's a nice fix. , not in going back in the pipe...
awesome..I'm trying to learn so I can't get ripped off. Pump runs constantly if power is on, when I noticed I flipped the breaker. It's just for sprinklers thank goodness but my grass is dying.
Love this! Working on my well today!
In the situation as in this video you should isolate the well pump feed at the tank pressure switch- if the breaker trips again u will know which part of the circuit is shorted - another thing you can do without tripping the breaker which is dangerous - you will know that when one of those breakers blows up in your hand - I am a retired master electrician and have seen all kinds of electrical accidents ... so since the breaker is open you can go to the tank pressure switch and take your meter - set it to ohms and test the wires to see if they are shorted together - when you test the pump you should get an ohm reading through the pump - since you only work with a couple of sizes of pumps you can easily find the ohm reading for the pumps ... if you have a hard fault you should be able to find it without testing by tripping a breaker .. since that breaker has already been closed into a hard fault probably 10 times it should be changed out...
I'd put odds on a lightning strike too. The tower is a big ole lightening rod.
My opinion you have sound trouble shooting skills. Just a guess on the wire fault an indirect lightning. would have not used that conduit either. You do good work sir.
Have seen this twice, one was lighting the other power surge was caused by the power company working close by which , it also fried the pumps on both occasions.
I use a old credit card cut down to go in between the switch points to open the circuit then test with ohm meter.
I bet you come back 2 years from now and that wire still hasn’t been buried
You deserved 1M subscribers.
Love your vides, so informative! Thanks for uploading them, it sure helps a layman like me to understand thing a little better.
Great video
Yeah buddy, it was most likely a lightning strike especially if the conduit was copper. For two imperfections in one spool of wire is pretty rare not saying it can't happen, most of the times when you have a nicked wire it will be in the well from not having a torque arrest and it's usually within the first 15 to 20 ft. In this case I think your spot on it could have been some slag in the pipe or most likely lightning. But like you said there's no way of knowing unless you thoroughly check everything. And besides the point you would not just fix what you see at your own house you would go through the whole system because you have to sleep there. Just good quality craftsmanship and professionalism. Great video! 🍻
An interesting case....Cheers!
I would guess that the wire was damaged even at initial installation, over time the conductors began to arc to ground, which will build heat and lead to failure. Electricity does not like to jump, when this happens it's much like welding, and obviously it doesn't take long for the circuit to fail. Your diagnostics planning was spot on, by isolating each circuit you can find the problem fairly quickly. Nice work.
Excellent explanation and details on video. Job well done. 👏🏻
Nice troubleshooting bro
Great job!!
Why don‘t you run conduit from the house to the well and place your cable inside the conduit? If case of maintainance it‘s easy to pull and replace.
More than likely when the cable was pulled in it was chafed against the pipe and got skinned exposing the cu conductors. Plumbing pipes are not reamed as well as electrical pipe.
Thanks!
Maybe pulling it through the pipe when new gouged out a few spots? Maybe also used wire was used.
I would have considered that as likely as lightning except for two places. I would have to have been at a pope joint and one 3 feet in from each end is unlikely. Ut really doesn't matter. That unlikely possibility would have pushed me away from using the pipe as an electric cobduit
I used long q tips to clean it because I knew that a screw driver may damage the bladder inside the where it goes to the switch , but turned out switch was no good any ways . So bought a switch from you . I had to buy that cheap square D one for now but will get the new one and put it on
Excellent reason to run your wire thru a oversized conduit and never leave exterior wiring exposed anywhere animals can't tell you how many times the failed could have been avoided
Much love Phil.
25:38 be carful dumping the main valve like that because the water hammer can blow apart the pipe work. Open some facets and then crack the main valve slowly so it doesn’t do this.
My money is on the copper tubing wearing through the UF wire. Everyone knows you should deburr the inside of copper tubing when you cut it with a tubing cutter to prevent turbulence. But I guess it's even more important when you use the copper tubing as conduit! Lol. Also, you could have avoided crawling under the house in the dogspace if you had disconnected at the switch and re tested. Break the circuit up into smaller pieces to test and narrow down the problem.👍
good work
Great video
What size is the wire from the pressure switch to the well
That was very good! Great job!
I guess I have hard water,just changed out pressure switch,fire ants got between the contacts and pitted them.Changed the nipple on switch from galvanized to brass.The galvanized was totally eat up .
When a new pressure switch is installed, how is the air remaining in that 4" 1/2: pipe purged out or don't you concern yourself with it. Remember, air can be compressed but water can not be compressed. I would think presence of air against the switch diaphragm would affect start and stop pressure.
When exposed to live voltage, your muscles will contract and therefore your hands will involuntarily grab the exposed electrical wire or fitting with potentially dangerous consequences. If you are in a poorly lit attic or void, always try to use the back of your hands for feeling around.
Best advice ever! I always second guess a meter & use a screw driver and the back of my hand. So it'll push me away if there is some sort of voltage issue back fed thru a ground
That's actually a bit of an old wive's tale. I've been badly shocked many times at both 120V and 240V (I was quite a tinkerer as a child), and I've never experienced the involuntary 'grabbing' phenomenon. Maybe it happens at very high voltages, but not at the voltages found in residential settings. It's a myth.
@@paulmaxwell8851 definitely NOT a myth. It may not have happened to you yet. But if you keep grabbing hot wires while you're grounded, eventually you will understand it's not a myth.
They need to have breaker box changed out. You initially said the grey UF at well went to house and as i’m typing to tell you that’s wrong you then explained wire routing correctly while at pressure switch.
Awesome video thank you
Great video Thank you!!
Direct short caused contacts to fake excessive load
WHOA! 😳😳😳 Did they have a lightening strike that charged the pipe and fried the wire!??? If so, it just goes to show how you should have plastic conduit!
Do you think that wire could've been compromised on installation sliding it through the steel pipe a thought thank you again for a great video
I might have tried to put plastic electric wire pipe inside the old water pipe.
after you disconnected the wiring at the pump and still had a short, the next logical step would have been to disconnect the wiring leaving the pressure switch that ran to the pump. other than than that, a good job diagnosing the problem. Thanks!
You aren’t supposed to put Romex wire in conduit. It will over heat. You should run separate wires in conduit. Or you can use direct burial cable in the ground.
Regular Romex in a metal pipe will rot the copper. Has to be a buriable wire with better insulation.
If the contacts burned out one leg and power through pump, back through ground wire then, 1 side ac through metal pipe becomes cal-rod. just like element on electric stove, that is where the heat to melt insulation and the wire inside pipe.
another common thing. someone damaged the wire in install. see it allot with Cat and coaxial cable. over pulling the cable and or pulling it against a sharp edge of the pipe. or not de burring the pipe and connections and a sharp piece cuts it. allowing water to do its thing and for it to ark.
caused from using plumbing for conduit.
The only question i have is why didnt you ohm out the cable tp begin with ?that would have given you a clue as to how far down the line the short was. Perhaps i dont know enough about the business please let me know.
I think the windmill still standing, would be a good draw for lightning surges. Perhaps the old pipe from the windmill is still in the ground, I could not see you in your video if it is, that could be the problem.
Wouldnt it make more sense to put the amp meter on the hot wire?
Good work !
Great video my man
The wires exiting the panel without any bushing is the next short in the future.
I've fixed a wire hit by lightning that was in the ground and it looked just like that wire. Any way you found the problem and got the job done. Also good info on checking the pressure on the tank. Thanks
Only a few question if lightening why was the pump not taken out ? I'd rather believe mice chewed on the wires and yes 1 man sucks on site but a snake thru the pipe and pulled a new wire been my choice. New switch for certain and why all the wire twisting needed ?