Secrets of The Exhibit: The Avro Arrow
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- čas přidán 5. 04. 2016
- The Avro Arrow fighter jet was a classified Canadian government operation intended to resolve the threat of Russian bombers. It was unlike anything else ever built before it in the 1950s-and that remains true to this day.
May no one ever forget that its demise was caused by John Diefenbaker.
No one will forget as long as im alive
There was a lot more to it than that.
@@tomhuckerby7730 Or presumably that Pearson said in his own autobiography that he would have had to make the same decision, if he had been PM.
@@tomhuckerby7730 Nor presumably that Pearson said in his own autobiography that he would have had to make exactly the same decision, if he were PM.
Louis St. Laurent would've almost certainly cancelled the CF-105 had he won in '57.
Confirmed by C.D. Howe.
Now you can't even buy a Canadian made can opener.
.. or a Canadian-designed cellphone, or networking equipment, or perhaps soon even a Canadian-made regional airliner. (but we can buy Canadian-made ketchup.)
Houses are all we build now
@@m.e.345 Network equipment? Blackberry?
Blackberry is just a software company now.. Nortel Networks is history, although US-based Cisco Systems has offices in Toronto.
Prime Minister John Diefenbaker basically admitted -later- that the cancellation was a mistake.
Absolutely it was a mistake - the belief that planes were obsolete proved wrong - but it was too late to correct or to overcome the costs.
They could have put everyone else in the stone age concerning fighter/bomber aircraft. Even the USA. Which is why the USA offered the Bomark missile system knowing Canada couldn't afford both. And then telling the Canadian PM if he didn't take it they would build anti-missiles emplacements just north of Canada's border as opposed to quite a bit further north. Which would mean that the Russian planes would be shot down over Canadian cities.
What the Prime Minister should have said was, "Mr. President, we have a revolutionary fighter/bomber that will outclass everyone else's. We'd be willing to sell you some of these at cost. That way you needn't worry about an attack from us. Because we'd be on even footing and you'd be able to retaliate in kind. We're allies sir. Let us do what is best for both countries.
@@kellyrayburn4093 The Americans had the North American "Rapier" project.....still on the drawing boards. The USA could not bear to be outclassed - even by an ally. However, another problem was the friction between Diefenbaker and the head of Avro. They were hardly friends. I saw the maiden flight and several flights thereafter. I will also suggest the Avrocar did fly...or sometning very like it.
@@charleygarth Couldn't bear to be outclassed by an ally? Not just any ally but our closest friends? That makes me think that we aren't worthy of having friends when we are so afraid that our closest friend will outclass us. Were we *_REALLY_* so vain? If so, then I am ashamed.
@@kellyrayburn4093 There is nothing quite like politics when it comes to muddying the water!
The Avro Arrow would still be a good fighter today
Probably not.
Big, square, single-purpose, fuel-guzzling interceptor with a radar signature the size of a hockey rink and a heat signature rivaling a small forest fire.
I'll take the F-35.
Raynus 1 amen.
My drafting teacher in High School work at Avro. He had a 1ft square piece of the skin; it was a honeycomb of aluminum sandwiched between an inner an outer aluminum skin. And also a joystick hand grip with all the buttons and wheels and hat switches, it looked like a high end gamer joystick. Apparently there are bits and pieces of the Arrow scatter all over, forgotten in attics, basements and garages.
Was he Hayden Williams?
So beautiful. It looked ahead of it's time.
I’m a huge fan of the Avro CF-105 Arrow it’s my favourite jet of all time and it annoys me that it’s not around today and was canceled
absolutley pissed the program was cancelled
I'm from the United States and I feel the same way. So what if Canada had the best aircraft in the world? We were and continue to be best of friends. If I can't come up with something great, who better to do so than my best friend. Had Canada put a man on the moon, I'd have been, "Damn. Wish it was us, but hey at least it wasn't a commie and _was_ our closest ally.. Good on you Canada."
Yep, and most of the engineers that built this ahead of its time aircraft went to NASA.
Also jim floyd went to the Concorde project
READ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Chamberlin
The Canadian that made NASA and Apollo.
Great Video
i love this aircraft I am black and american 14 and am addicted to the avro arrow love it
It is a sexy looking plane
+Colin Park yaaaasss
Keep at your schooling and then off to flight school.It will be the time of your life and oh,,so much fun. It worked for me. GIVE ER ! You could be blue in my eye and that should have 0 effect.If it maters where you are now c-mon up here because we do not care,,,,,REALLY.It is bullshit that should be an issue,,,, ever.Take care and go flying !
A G Have you watched the TV movie they made about it? You'll love that too.
Try the TSR2.
Good stuff. Bring it to life
I'm British and love this aircraft, way ahead of its time , I think the RAF ordered 90 with future orders for more , you Canadians got stiffed by your own prime minister and government, let's hope it makes a comeback in a new version fantastic aircraft
thesheepman220 love your enthusiasm but the current PM is to busy on himself and selfies for that type of common sense thinking!
Blanchfield Commercial
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thesheepman220 love your enthusiasm but the current PM is to busy on himself and selfies for that type of common sense thinking!
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Is waaaay to busy to suck on everyones "arrows".
@@alniseschrenkek6348 We can't afford to build these things and that's why it was scrapped and with the high degree of retardation in Ottawa and Quebec we can't even get a pipeline built across the country. So in short keep dreaming its not going to happen.
And YOUR government did the EXACT SAME THING to TSR2
The RAF followed the Arrow with interest, but didn't place any orders. They withdrew all interest in the program by January 1959.
I hope they don't scrap her. The museum had its National Heritage Site status revoked and was closed down to build a damn hockey rink. Until the Arrow II is completed (if it ever is), this is the closest thing we have to an Arrow.
Actually the closest thing we have is 2 UAV prototypes of the modern Super Arrow built and designed by Joe Green Beaver works. The previous conservative government shot down that design proposal and killed Arrow II as well. In fact they did not even give it a chance and Joe was mad about it and decided to build it on his own for testing & future considerations.
The only known portion of an Arrow is currently on display at the Canada Aviation and Space Museum in Ottawa, along with the only surviving Iroquois engine (not quite complete). I'd stick a picture in here, but it shows us in front of the nose, so no thanks :)
My father almost died from testing a prototype respirator for the Arrow, as it failed. You can imagine how they muddy the waters of service and veteran support for an RCAF pilot doing some work for Avro.
And here's the incing on the cake. It was Eisenhower who sold Diefenbaker on buying the Voodoo and BOMARC. YOu know, the same Eisenhower who complained about the military-industrial complex. He also said at the time that using the atom bomb on Japan was wrong, yet later saw nuclear bombers and missiles as a cheaper form of defense than maintaining a conventional armed force.
The Arrow never should of been destroyed they should of kept the five they had made instead of cutting them up and tossed into the trash it would of been one of Canada's greatest builds that's for sure
And you can only imagine what we would have developed on top of it from there. Everything out there now would be a joke in comparison to what we could have flying right now.
It's a masterpiece plane, hope will be rebuild it again
My view is that the Arrow was the world's best interceptor in it's day. Nobody builds interceptors these days. But what would the Arrow follow -on have been? Likely much better than our CF18s.
Drew Thompson the TSR 2 was better.
American here. Absolutely love this Jet. Hope there is at least 1 left.
If there is one left belongs in a museum.
I've heard of the "Avro Anson" , WW1 vintage . You can never beat the old models for speed and reliability .The flight of the Pentagon designers has taken them to Canada . I commend this move , most enlightening .
Richard Martin: The Avro Anson was developed in the 1930's long after WWI. It primarily served as a twin engine trainer. It's top speed was only about 180 mph.
They did an amazing job on this full size model, beautiful, however I always wondered why they didn't recreate 206?
The trailing edges look a bit wooden.
So what happened to the rest of the video?
The fastest aircraft with a good weapons platform will always win.
Why does the video just sort of end? Kinda accurate to the Arrow program haha but odd.
Awesome !! This design would make a killer ''PSS'' - R/C model slope soaring jet. I watched the movie, & was really pissed @ the end. I heard lately that the Mig 25 Foxbat pretty much got it's idea from this, & is just about the same size...
Could use your help Gavin. Have a 1/1o scale done with blue foam. Weighs 16 pounds. Would have some questions for you if you have time to help.
Daniel Bates (h((
Are we saying that the 2nd prototype was really stored an hidden secretly until this posting in 2016?
I thought they scraped all the Jets the nose of the RL 202 is the only remaining arrow piece so what was the RL 203 painted orange and white doing in a hanger
it's a replica but for the museum
The only remaining original nose is on display in the Canada Aviation and Space Museum in Ottawa, along with the Iroquois engine.
I assume that the one in this video is a mockup that was made for the TV movie "The Arrow" since all of the originals were destroyed.
Damned Diefenbaker!
I'm actually more peeved at the Liberals for cancelling the Avro C102 Jetliner eight years earlier.
Was thay an original aero or a replica
replica. All airframes were destroyed.
Now that the guy who's dad hid all those blueprints has found them hidden in his basement, I wonder what new things will be figured out?
Nothing. That information was all long ago disseminated and built on in other projects, in other countries.
Engines tucked.... concealed weapons bay..........
Decades ahead
Convair's F-102 and F-106 had internal weapons bays, as did Republic's F-105.
All flew before the Arrow.
Some of your facts are a little bit off. When you say the project started in 1954 you are a few years late, I started working at AVRO in early 1954 and a production line was already assembling at least the 4th plane. So, concept had to have been at least 2 or 3 years earlier than that. But yes it was black friday in mid march of 1959 and it took a few months but I too was hired by an American aircraft co. Rohr Aircraft in Chula Vista, CA on contract engineering for 6 mo. Design of engine pods for the B52H
Respectfully, I think time has clouded your memory.
Avro's C-104/2 proposal was tabled in June, 1952.
The CF-105 program was formally approved on December 17, 1953. Wind tunnel and free rocket model testing didn't begin until 1954.
Aircraft 201 entered the jig on June 26, 1957.
Aircraft 204 entered the jig on March 17, 1958.
Black Friday was Feb 20, 1959.
The Delta concept Avro used was actually invented by a German in WW2 but his concept never flew and was only a mock up because of the war the Nazi's needed him to focus on something else. The Americans built 2 delta designs that deviated from the German design even before the Arrow design was first laid down & successfully flew them but they were not as Good as the Aerodynamically tweaked Arrow which followed the German design & incorporated the saw tooth wing, coke bottle body delta design, first of its kind and last of it's kind to date. Britain did a similar project but realized the Arrow was better. So this means the Arrow was in the drawing boards as early as the end of WW2 because they always knew the CF-100 would have to be superseded by something better. What we know for sure is in December 1951 Chief Designer John Frost proposed an interim aircraft (the CF-103) between the CF-100 & the on the drawing board C-104 which the C-104/2 became re-designated the CF-105 after modification to it. But what should be noted is that Frost indicated the existence of a more advanced concept even while he was producing a less advanced interim concept. Even around this time the Americans were already planning the A-11 & A-12 "oxcart" program which later the Lockheed A -12 won & became the YF-12 & SR-71 but this project was originally called the WS-110A back in the mid 50's. Most of these designs never held to their original concept but what was amazing about the Arrow was, it held to the original concept invented by the German but with modifications. & that's why it was the best and that's why the Americans hated it and wanted to see it fail. It's interesting to note the American "oxcart" competition took place in secret in the USA the very year Diefenbaker cancelled the Arrow after claiming that an American defense paper says ICBM's will be the future and not Jet fighters. Meanwhile the USA were still building Jet fighters and the Diefenbaker decision to make black Friday happen was all mostly based on American lies.
Did any Arrow escape the torches? It would be the best revenge!
Jetsfan:
You sure do know your planes and info bro!
@@jetsfan1498 Yup. Us Canadians got the American Shaft one more time and many times before and after ! !
that is high tech
The Avro Arrow and the British TSR2 both cut down in there infancy
In the case of the Arrow, think of it as Canada's first major defense cut to increase funding for social programs, or in this case for agricultural subsidies. The 35 to be built for Canada would not be anywhere near enough to trim development costs. And with no large export order, the Arrow suffered a severe blow. Simply put Canada in its history have shown no desire to fund Research & Development or vital infrastructure at the federal level of government. After sixty years Canada still hasn't built a interstate highway coast to coast, not even as a toll road. Just the opposite has been true, spend recklessly for social programs....
At least the TSR2 (which was a fine aircraft by all accounts) was replaced by the Tornado, which ad a shorter takeoff distance, easy mainenance in the field, and lower price tag. Not by junk missiles.
KarmaTiger Did the Arrow even have a missile? Yes, according to Wiki, they same Genie and Falcon missiles of the F-101 Voodoo... At the time they were America's best missiles. Amazing how just a few short years technology moves on...
The Canadian government had an order for engines from the French for there Marage fighters.
You're missing it. The Arrow was replaced by CIM-10 Bomarc missiles. The TSR2 was replaced by the Tornado fighter. You must've been confused by the word missile and thought the topic was the Arrow's weapons system.
BTW, if this program was 'secret' how did those engineers manage to get the plans out? Something tells me that 'security' seriously broke down on or before Black Friday!
Russ G many engineers actually stole and hid the plans in their homes. It's actually these blueprints that the new arrow is being built with.
KGB had agents at Avro. Take a look at a Mig 25; see any resemblance?
Do we know for a fact, it is not being used anymore? Or maybe was being used for a few more decades? Top secret weapon? Just a thought.
Americans tout the F-106 but the Arrow had to be much bigger for greater payload in order to function as a 'force equalizer.' The USAF had the manpower to put up plenty of individual aircraft. The RCAF didn't, hence the need for a larger, more heavily armed interceptor capable of making the impact (on the enemy's bomber force) of several smaller ones.
There were a host of reasons for a bigger airframe. & the Arrow Airframe was also tougher and more sturdy and rugged than American airframes, like the Russians airframes are. Arrow Mk1 was not capable of out doing other designs, Mk2 was. Mk 3 was going to be an intercontinental ballistic missile interceptor-launcher.
One of the designers was a guy called Bob Lindley who had helped to design the Vulcan. He went on to have input on the space shuttle.
Where is that Avrow Arrow 203?
Well, according to legend, it was flown away to a secret base for future use.
Second one down from upper right.
www.pinterest.ca/pin/693976623811336716/visual-search/
The "Russian" aircraft at the beginning is an RB-47?
It was loaned to avro/rcaf by the USAF for testing the orenda iroquois
Shot ourselves in the foot, again
The AVRO Arrow was purely an interceptor. Not a multi role combat aircraft. It was specialized for that mission. Could it have been adapted like the F-4 Phantom II was? I won’t speculate
I hope the Canadian government has the balls to resurect the Avro Arrow and create lots of jobs for Canadians, This plane would out perform anything the US has and a hell of a lot cheaper Tan anything the Us has to offer!!!
When have you ever seen the Canadian Government have Gonads when it comes to what the Americans want. Hope Justin tells them where to go and how to do it like his Dad. Love Americans but not so much when it comes to control issues.
Your right about it being a better option powell, these days with long rang missiles slow twisting dog fights are over. Get there as fast as possible, fire your missiles then go home, range and speed are the best options, perfect for the next gen Arrow.
I will add powell, forget stealth, do your bomb run and by the time they get there anti-aircraft guns firing your back at the base having a steak dinner. Speed kills
Bombing other nations is not the kind of mission Canadians want to build fighter Jets for. If we build a Super Arrow (and we will, just a matter of government finally saying yes and people growing the cajones to stand up to our government), we need to focus on interception not bombing. We need a ABM shield and since we do not have nuclear weapons or ballistic missiles we should focus on shooting them down & the original Avro Arrows mission was just that. Also our government cancelled the made in Canada ADATS system which was a proven effective system in favor of pursuing American agendas like usual.
Uhhh, no. The Arrow would get absolutely shredded by regular 4th gen fighters, and would be blown out of the sky without even seeing or knowing a 5th gen fighter was there.
T51B1 - you mean the 1958's Arrow, well ya of course, duh. A modern Super Arrow with build in 5th generation plan forming, avionics, thrust vectoring, weaponry & skunkworks highest level of engine technology... no way... the Super Arrow design is a guaranteed winner not even the T-50 PAK FR or F-22 Raptor would beat it.
My uncle Bill worked on the Avro Arrow until it was canned then he was sent to NASA
Hey, here is an idea. What is the population of Canada? 36,290,000 as of 2016. If every person donated $20.00 to the rebirth of the Arrow,it would total $725,800,000.00. Would that be enough to give the project a kick-start? All we would need is the right company to build her.
What for? It's the equivalent of a Ford Edsel.
The end of the Arrow is a case study in the use & control of money & power to protect those who already have money & power. As in: 'You are just my fucking slave! Stay down below my level of.....'
Canada has been the first ones to get things done many many times.
Please rebuild it. With the modern compounds, tech, and the advanced design (for it's day), we can rebuild our aerospace industry.
I have watched Canada lose it's tech and manufacturing skills for over 5 decades, it is time to reclaim our place.
Some of our Canadian inventions, trackballs, Walkie-Talkie, AM Band, the atomic clock, high speed modem, 1st commercial jetliner in North America, gas mask, first electric wheelchair to name a few.
Let us as Canadians, get back to developing our tech and our innovations, but alas, we most likely will not because the Canadian government and people don't really give a damn about our country.
What a team with crazed ideas that produce some of the most advances in aircraft design from the ground up with fly by wire and onboard computers.
One has to wonder if Canadia would have been a world leader in aircraft if the Gov had not scrap the program after all when you look around the world many aircraft see to look close to the plane and how long did it take other nations to build fly by wire aircraft. and it seems many of those top young men came to the US and help put men on the moon.
This story sounds like the Tucker can that was so advanced it would have made the big three stand up and take notice and it was deep-sixed as they say. Take the engine build by Smokey Yunick that produces 150 HP at 60 MPG and only had two cylinders and used a three-stage heating system to increases the air/fuel charge to 440* before it was introduced into the cylinders and he was no fly by night con-man but a true leader in racing from the Indy 500 as a car/engine builder to flying aircraft in WW2
It's sad when people put money, greed or their own pride above what's best for this aircraft could have possible turn Canadia
in to the foremost leader in aircraft and spacecraft, but in history we have records were so may have killed things like this or did their best to stop other people like Tesla & his AC system to using people as lab rats.
At times all we can do is work for a better world for those to come
Thanks for the story
Did some one mention the TSR-2? I thought it was the tsr2. That plane was finished by the Australian Menzies (liberal) govt when they bought the TFX instead to win an election going at the time. The rejection of the TSR-2 by Australia meant that the UK itself would not go ahead and procure them. (the TFX became later known as the F-111 which was to have along career.) and trying to get any aircraft production going in Australia like Canada i guess is impossible. From the tiny Victa 2 seater and others that were stymied by Canberra right across the aircraft spectrum.
A day that shall live in INFAMY...!!!
What this aircraft might have been we'll never know. It was nowhere near certification hours and there was a great deal left to do before it's promise might have been realized. It was arrogance and ignorance that led to both it's creation and eventual demise. Remember in the 1950's, the population of Canada was around 17 million. Far too small to justify the expense that the Arrow was for a country that has always showed great reluctance in having a large standing military. It would have required a large number of sales to offset the development cost and the biggest customer wouldn't have been a customer at all (Americans). Can you imagine the US Military complex buying foreign built fighters in large numbers. I can't see that then anymore than I can see it today. The only model that might have worked for this aircraft is one which is being employed by the F-35 program today where the costs of development have been offset over a number of different players. A concept before it's time in 1959. Couple that with a PM that frankly was out of his depth when it came to military thinking who could only see the spiraling costs in a backdrop of thought that the days of manned planes were short lived, and the Arrow was doomed. If the powers that be had showed any creativity, they would have invited to the Brits, French, and Americans to all play a part. To work together to see this project through. Alas, right idea's, wrong time. In today's world, the general concept might still be viable. We are now in an era where dog fighting is really a rare thing. The idea is now to shoot down your opponent before ever you see them. A large, long range, high speed, delta wing fighter could still work in this theatre. With today's electronics, metallurgy, weapons systems and engine technology, it is quite possible that the Arrow could still be a relevant air frame. If there ever was a crime, it was in the destruction of these unique and special aircraft. That they weren't kept around for future generations to enjoy was unforgivable.
Stupid comment. Sweden is smaller than Canada and look at the defensive aircraft they have produced. Your comment shows real ignorance of the facts! We gave up the opportunity for a massive economic leap forward. We have the ability to be leaders in both manufacturing and engineering and we let our PM and his Cabinet destroy the advantage we had.
@@maryrafuse2297 Sweden ? What were they doing in the 1950's ? 🤣😂
This aircraft has more mythology around it than any aircraft in existence. First it is a INTERCEPTOR not a fighter. It was designed to intercept big, slow, NON MANEUVERING targets. It was not designed to fight other fighters and it COULD NOT FIGHT OTHER FIGHTERS. It was designed to fly between Mach 1.5 and Mach 2 in a STRAIT line and deploy it's weapons. As soon as the ICMB was invented the Avro Arrow was OBSOLETE.
You do know that they were working on the first ASAT system for the Arrow, which would work as an ABM system, given that the trajectory involved would have had the warhead reaching the top or it's arc over Canada.
It would be awesome if we would build a MK3 super arrow right now! It would bring our country back to what it can be.... f covid 19........
2:05 - The CF-100 (and US F-100) was a trans-sonic aircraft, not sub-sonic. It could fly supersonic in level flight, but only "clean" (without a weapons load).
If it wasn't for the Soviet spies stealing every bit of data about the Arrow, it would have been an amazing plane. The Russians even used it as the basis for the MiG-25.
I wouldnt doubt it usa 🇺🇸 got ahold of one
There is one at area 51 , I've seen it
Reason for cancel Avro Arrow program was Luna1...There wasn´t any need for this aircraft after Luna1 launch, because it was obvious that nuclear bombers wasn´t biggest threat anymore. Russians was able to manufacture nuclear missiles.
Luna 1 launch was January 1959. Avro Arrow cancelled february 1959...
I think you mean Sputnik I - it was launched October 4, 1957 - same day as the Arrow's roll-out.
Then why did the Soviets build any new bombers after the TU-95. By your rational, the TU-22 and TU-160 shouldn't exist.
Dont blame Diefenbaker no one wanted except Canada and it was to costly for us as well. Beside the Statates and i think France had aircraft that already did its job.
This advanced aircraft was mired in politics, as a result many people were literally screwed. The biggest obstacle was the fact that it was Canadian. If this very design was an American product, it would have been a success. Sad.
How do you explain the fact that most American designs never went into production? The Rapier F-108 had even greater capabilities than the Avro and never got past the mock-up stage. The F-103 had a similar fate and the F-107 had three prototypes built.
@@danzervos7606
Exactly.
The US almost cancelled the F-106 as well, reducing the number from 1000 aircraft to 340.
Interceptors were 'old hat' by 1960, giving way to multi-role types like the F-4.
A true Canadian tragedy, now just a case of spilled milk, what was, what could have been, what was said to who and by whom, politics, back scratching, pressures applied by foreign governments, budgets, what is now... all done and dusted, time to move on into the future... but never forget.
Atta boy Canada.....
The Swedish Draken allready did this
Andrew scheer would have cancelled it even sooner
John George Diefenbaker: "The fastest fighter in the world." nah bought intercontinental missiles ... american of course.
Oh and the 206 is in a hanger somewhere in Western Canada Despite Diefenbakers bullshit.
I heard recently a deep water recovery company found one of the proto-types of the Arrow in lake Ontario recently. They will see if they can bring it to the surface. Awesome, Americans were jealous of this fine aircraft
They've also found a scaled down UAV version of the Arrow of which 9 were fired into Lake Ontario on rockets.
Just a model in lake Ontario, no actual aircraft were ever lost just cut up
center less bearing engines the Iroquois. Fly by wire avionics, Cryo cooling fuel system, Sparrow air to air missile wit radar tracking and targeting. Im 65, I was 6 years old when my uncle called my father telling him Fuck all tories.
It was great technology for the time, yes, however, the threats of supersonic bombers was not only a Soviet idea. The reason why no aircraft technology ever really developed in the Western Alliance was due solely because the Alliance was totally dominated by the United States. The Pentagon rules not just the US military but the entire NATO organization and the rule is this: Pentagon, "What we sez goes'".That's the big Gorilla in all our discussions.
In the end, thats why they bombed germany in ww2, not because some freedom bullshit. The country is called united states after all.
The compelling factor; why did they destroy all the work, the technology and the aircraft themselves? It was a political decision based on selfish decisions. Very much in tune with Canadian politics right to this day.
The raison d'etre for the Arrow was to intercept Russian nuclear bombers coming in over the North Pole. Because of the development of the ICBM, this concern never materialized. Ergo there was no need for the Arrow and history has born out this fact. The Canadian officials of the time were either prescient or lucky, but they appear to have made the right choice.
If it was obsolescent, then why did the Canadian government prohibit overseas sales and go so far as to order EVERYTHING INVOLVED WITH THE PROJECT DESTROYED? Usually, if a government cancels a project, there's one or two prototypes that end up in some museum.
we never know what really happend, maybe Soviets copied plans ?? Great plane anyway !
You're looking across the wrong border.
This must be Politic that time so Canadian have to destroy all this best aircraft even everything because it will heavy competition to the west and also how if this aircraft sell to the dangerous country that according to the west,it's not secret that time.it's just opinion.
Diefenbaker s guys fell for the US con job that missiles were the way to go. Such a stupid move. So many lost their jobs and were ironically calmly absorbed by US firms.
This plane would've dominated the skies, out fly a Russian Foxbat and give the highly fear F15 Eagle a run for it's money. All this before any of those two planes were ever developed.
LOL You are smoking CRACK.....and really bad crack to boot. The Avro Arrow is more myth than reality. The F-15 could have taken on 8 of these at one time and shot down all of them with ease.
The Arrow was designed to intercept BOMBERS.....large slow moving targets. It was a INTERCEPTOR NOT A FIGHTER!!!!!!
"Perhaps one of the most entrenched myths surrounding the Arrow was its technological pre-eminence in the 1950s. While it was an advanced aircraft, the Arrow was one of only several being developed at the time. Of these, the McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom represented a true technological breakthrough. Its design - a fast, multi-role fighter with a powerful radar - would define future fighter innovation, with more than 5,000 eventually produced.
The Arrow, a heavy bomber interceptor, was an evolutionary dead-end, partly due to the advent of the intercontinental ballistic missile. Among Canadian allies, this unique aircraft type would disappear over coming decades, largely replaced by the more versatile fighters of the F-4’s mould.
The Arrow program had other major flaws, but none was as fatal as its cost. Each Arrow was projected to cost more than three times that of the Phantom and still faced serious development challenges until it was cancelled. These straightforward facts, not the myth of an American conspiracy to end the program, explain the Arrow’s demise.
Continuing with such a program today would be a national scandal. To some degree, it was a scandal in 1959, given that the program’s failings were well known by 1957 yet it continued development for one more year, resulting in nearly $200 million in additional expenditure before its cancellation."
SOURCE: www.macdonaldlaurier.ca/time-to-lay-the-avro-arrow-myth-to-rest-richard-shimooka-in-the-winnipeg-free-press/
Before I start. The Arrow was and INTERCEPTOR not a jet fighter. I am an American. And I think the Arrow would have been a great aircraft. But enough with lets blame the U.S. I like and think the Arrow could have been a great jet. For Canada. You Canadians better get your facts right. NO THE U.S. didn't have anything to do with the Arrow being destroyed. This is a rumor that just will not die. The jet was very expensive for the time. Canada was hoping to sale them and make money. No one was interested.
In fact the U.S. offered to buy some for the RCAF to use. But the Can.PM said no. Because he felt it looked like charity and did want it to look like the U.S. had to help Canada. Yes the U.S. President Eisenhower meet up with your Canadian PM to tell him the future was not with high speed interceptor aircraft but with missiles. The U.S. had nothing to do with it. Canada didn't and still doesn't have the money for such a program. The U.S. and U.K. had no interested in buying the Arrow themselves. No one did. But if Canada really wanted the ARROW. WHY didn't you all use them yourselves? Because you didn't have the money. And that's what it always comes down to. So if you all don't want the new F 35. No worries. Build a new updated Arrow. There are alot of jet's the U.S. built that never saw it past the prototype stage. That's Politics and money.
I’m guessing this plane was an embarrassment to the US; they’d just developed the bomb, won the war. Then this upstart nation builds an aircraft that was light years ahead of them.
TSR 2 the same,more advanced than the USA,Got scrapped.Australia put orders in for it,later the technology was used on Tornado Aircraft..
How I wish the program had not been scrapped - politics is a NASTY business. Canada, eh!
I don't agree with Diefenbaker on most things, but he was right about this one. There was still a lot of teething and development to be done. It would have cost our small country way too much to fully develop it. Sales would never have covered the cost.
GUMMIFISCHER FISCHEN MIT FISCHERGUMMI
Psychopath
czcams.com/video/6dv8zJiggBs/video.html
Amazingly SIMILAR to the TSR2 American influence Cancelled that Project as well , i say similar because obviously Canada and Britain were leaders in the field of Aircraft Design , does anyone know what Engines were in it ?. ALSO BUILT IN THE 1950s the TSR2 DID NOT GET PASSED THE PROTOTYPE .......I think the Americans were so far behind at that time , they were Jealous .
Classic conservative visionary mind at it's best.
LOL The mythology surrounding this jet is HILARIOUS. It was OBSOLETE before it was to ever enter service. #1) The Soviet Bomber threat NEVER materialized. #2) The ICBM made the interceptor obsolete overnight. #3) The F-4 Phantom which flew only 2 months after the Arrow was LIGHT YEARS better as an interceptor than the Arrow would have been.
Socialist are about death. The heart of the UN 21/30 that says
"Don't do anything , until you can prove it won't do anything wrong"
It is called the precautionary principal.
Look no further Canada, save your money for the new F 14 Z , just what we're looking for.
Killed by the Yanks !
Huh? What did the "Yanks" do to kill Arrow? You realize that Yank engines powered the only Arrows ever to fly, and that a Yank B-47 was loaned to test fly the Iroquois. Yanks had a strong incentive to see Arrow succeed, since Arrow was going to use American missiles, and likely American electronics. Those Yanks also had a decent shot of selling their engines to Canada should the Orenda Iroquois end up being rejected....which is what happened.
Hah! Don't say Canada doesn't/didn't anti up to NATO when it's clear they used Avro technology and design in the Blackbird...and the Blackbird didn't fly until 1966.