On point, I spent years playing the mirrored layout and got to the point where I felt limited. So started from the beginning with your method and it makes sense. Feel like I wasted too much time though
Don’t worry about wasted time! Even if you were using a different layout, your years of playing have still given you muscle memory and dexterity, so you should progress much faster with our layout that you would otherwise. Happy finger drumming!
Nice video, well explained! I think the bigger problem is the reliance on alternating strokes, moreso than the layout itself. As you say, the two often come hand in hand). I’d love to go fully hand-independent like you do but I’m just not there yet! I usually mirror my hi hat and snare, but nothing else. Without a doubt, hand independence is way more flexible - and you’re totally right that some more complex grooves are just impossible to do with alternating stroke. But I do like being able to play simpler beats with alternating strokes, and also to be able to play very simple beats with one hand. I put my kick in the lower left, the snare above and to the right of that, and the closed hat above and to the right of the snares. That lets me play simple beats one handed on the bottom row, 16th-note grooves with the alternating strokes, and also work on getting better at hand independence.
2 things.... just IMO.... First, the mirror set up doesn't really mean you will always alternate hands. You can still play primary beat with you primary, and just add accents with your off hand. Sure, some patters you can increase speed by alternating in a mirror, but that's not always the goal I think. Second, if you learn Cajon, this is the exact same problem hehe. People who learn alternating hand patterns have problems sometimes with dominant hand driving beats with off hand fills. Those who only use dominant hand beats, they have a harder time getting the timing of alternate hand Cajon playing. Food for thought.
Hey David! What set up do you use for finger drumming then? I’ve been an acoustic drummer for a long time and I’ve also played cajon extensively so I’m familiar with both concepts. But right now I wanted to get into finger drumming and I’m really confused which technique to use. Both Dragon and QFG (Quest For Groove) are excellent finger drummers which makes it harder to choose, haha. Mirror setup reminds me cajon playing but on steroids, Dragons’ "zone" layout is more like real drumming. I guess I would prefer the one from Dragon because it is really better for complex grooves but I really don’t like playing fast rolls on one pad only. I guess I’ll have to dive deeper and figure out some kind of hybrid layout that will be focused on hand separation but some pads will be mirrored (snare, hats). Cheers!
@@honzakalnik I use the non mirrored way more. Like 98% of the time more. For me I am always on my Push... and it let's me get more different sounds available out of 16 pads. It is also easier to just pick up some new instrument, or drop in a new drum track in Ablet9n, and just go with minor patch rearranging. Mirrored is a whole set up process.
You make a good case about the realism of the hand independence, but you can easily apply that to the mirrored layout whenever you want, it's not a real issue. The biggest drawback i see for the mirrored layout is that you can afford less articulations/single sounds, since you need 2 pads for each. Probably the best idea if you want both is to mirror snare-hat-kick and have the toms and crashes only once. Again, I don't see it as limiting since you can apply hand independence techniques to the mirrored layout whenever you feel. Edit: great video btw, even if i dont fully agree with your take
You're definitely correct, you can use the hand isolation method to play on a mirrored layout. However, from my experience in trying many different pad layouts over the years, I still don't think it's the most ergonomic layout for the hand isolation method. For the alternating hands method, the mirror layout works great, but for the hand isolation method, you want to set up your pads differently to optimize for hand isolation. I linked to my Basic Pad Setup video in the description of this video if you're interested in seeing my exact layout!
@@DragonFingerDrums yeah, i've watched that video and tried your layout. had fun with it for a couple days. there were a few things that i like to do that were awkward or impossible to execute with your layout, and ofc also a few things i felt awkward or failed to find a way to perform in my layout that were easy with yours. i guess at the end it boils down to personal preference. i think we're gonna see many awesome new layouts and techniques in the coming years :D anyways, great content and great playing, keep it up!
The layout that works the best for me is kind of similar to the way things are positioned in a real drum kit. Row 1: Ride, Bell, Tom1, Tom2. Row 2: Crash Left, Crash Right, snare, snare. Row 3: HH Close, HH Open, Kick, Kick. Last row is the crazy one, where I add different stuff, other HH variations and experiments. I'm left handed, so for other people this should be mirrored, I guess.
I agree with all the problems you mentioned and then I think it is not the LAYOUT itself which is a problem, but the lack of hand and or finger seperation which people encounter using mirrored setups. I got quick results using alternating hands/fingers but now I am trying to get more seperation and I think practicing paradiddles are a good way to start breaking with the alternating limbs problem. The biggest problem with the mirrored layout I see is that you are limited to just 8 sounds.
Nice vid, I have never bought a pad set before. Its quite interesting to watch, my thoughts are everything becomes muscle member and just flows naturally once you experiment more. My problem would probably be that I have only really finger drummed over the last few years on the edge of my desk, so all my muscle memory is pretty much straight side by side like a piano without the black keys, I would love to see someone arranging a basic straight arrangement with a lot of pads maybe a max of 1" square to see how it plays. I am probably going to look at the market at some point, but see a lot of arrrays of pads out there, one weird spin on my finger drumming is sometimes its on the edge of the front of my laptop, then off the side when I am doing more complex breaks/rythms, so weirdly a couple of segragated units with straight left to right would probably suit my muscle member pretty well. Hopefully I am making some sort of sense and not ranting on too much... haha. anyways great vid and great finger drum skills there, one other side note, I would expect a pad array like that would give me pretty bad carpal tunnel problems when arching over the further away pads, so maybe that is why i finger tap they way i do for now. Greetings from Scotland
Hi Dragon, Im curious if is possible for you to film future videos from directly above the Maschine. I thought about attending your course, but I get a little seasick / dizzy by looking at the angle you film from above. Maybe others have it the same way. Best regards, Mads
I'm a guitar player with minimal drumming experience. And trying to master finger-drumming I find your approach of hands isolation more natural and convenient for me, cos this is the way I used to tap rhythm with my fingers on the table :) But, if I understood you correctly, there is no problems with mirror layout itself, but with the way people use it - taping the whole basic rhythm with one dominant hand and using second hand for backbeats. I have Ableton Push with smaller pads and feel uncomfortable to tap same pad with both hands (e.g. on snare). Is it reasonable to use mirror layout keeping hands isolation or "stretch" your 4x4 layout to the width using two adjacent pads for one drum resulting with 4x8 layout. Hope it's clear what I mean :) Thanks in advance for your replies!
You’ve made a great point here, yes the actual pad placements for the mirror layout aren’t the problem, it’s the way the layout is used, with alternating hits on each hand. You definitely could use the mirror layout and just apply hand isolation to it, although after years of trying different layouts for hand isolation myself, I believe it’s still not the most ergonomic layout possible. If necessary for smaller pads like the Push, you can definitely put the snare (or any drum) on multiple pads!
Very interesting topic. What I don't understand is exactly why someone cannot switch to playing independently, on the fly, while retaining the mirrored layout. In other words, where does the mirrored layout impede independent playing if necessary? Or is it more of a case of some layout optimizations you are losing out on?
This is exactly what I do. Use mirror layout when it is just more convenient (ie back beats), then switch to hand independent technique when doing fills or beat variations.
Yes, there is the issue of small layout optimizations. The pad placement for the mirror layout works best with the alternating hands method of playing, whereas if you stick to the hand isolation method (which I’d recommend), there are definitely more ergonomic ways to set up your pads. It’s ultimately a very detailed topic and I could probably make many videos on this subject in the future (and I will)!
I think I know why some people like the mirror setup and it’s actually the very reason you don’t. Hand isolation. Mike Mangini of dream theater actually used a mirror image kit for awhile and said in an interview it was so his hands never crossed. I use a launchpad X with Logic Pro X drum kit designer which gave me 2 challenges. 1. It looks like I have much smaller pads than you so not a lot of room for 2 fingers. I solve this by doubling up. 2. Launchpad gives you an 8x8 setup divided into 4, 4x4 sections, logic only lets you use the bottom 2 squares and the top left. So I have a mirror image in the bottom 2 and extra percussion in the top left. Works good so far but I will continue to experiment. Love the way you play. I’m learning a lot from you.
Thanks for sharing! This is definitely a fascinating debate for me. I have a student in my community forum who was sharing something similar, that he uses a mirrored layout on a 64-pad controller and thinks it's the best option in this scenario. I want to give more perspective to the topic, so I think what I'll do is purchase a 64-pad controller for myself and spend some time trying and comparing both layouts, and make a video on my results. I still have a hard time believing that a mirrored layout could be superior to a drum kit layout but I'm keeping an open mind!
Oh, with a setup like yours I couldn’t agree more. In fact I’m looking at ways to mix your setup and mine. Approaching it more like an acoustic kit but at the same time leaving two rows of pads for everything that needs it since my fingers are to huge, lol. I’ll keep you posted.
Yup I prefer to play that way too, And then when the tempo gets high I have the option to alternate. Your background gave you more than you know, Skills that will not be acquired by novice learning on pads. 2 mirrored pads is superior, You don’t need it, But even you would be faster.
Thats crazy I have that same setup. It's good that I watched this video, because I was just trying a figure out layout thats comfortable. For right not, I might just mirror the kick and snare just to work on being ambidextrous. Although, I'd don't know if it'll be valid or even useful. You said something about drummers isolating and I'm left handed so idk. I subscribed, though.
I fully agree that the alternating hand technique can be limiting, that’s why your course is useful for me - to focus on development of the hand isolated technique. What are your thought on using hand independent technique, but retaining the mirror layout of the pads? IMO mirror pad layout is just more convenient on 64 pad controllers.
I think if you’re going to stick to the hand isolation method (which I’d strongly recommend), the mirror layout is not the most ergonomic way to set up your pads. I am working on developing lessons on pad layout for 64-pad controllers, but until then, I’d suggest studying the Dragon Finger Drums pad layout and making adjustments and expansions to our 16-pad layout as needed. For example, using duplicate pads for the snare or anything else is totally fine!
I didn't even know that the mirror layout was a thing. I never owned an MPC, or other such product, and every drum machine I ever got my hands on always had the drums laid out in a certain way. And I guess I just got used to it. But I agree, it's quite limiting, especially when you're trying to incorporate melodic samples.
Thanks for the great videos! i would be very curious of your opinion and how you would manage some layout on a HPD20 handsonic (which i use of course:)
This is partially true, the Dragon Finger Drums pad layout has multiple different fingering positions to use depending on what rhythms you’re playing. However, I would still say that if you completely change your pad layout frequently, you’ll have a really hard time developing your muscle memory to a very high level. A big part of developing skill on an instrument is muscle memory, and without some standardization, it kind of goes out the window and limits how far you can develop.
So do you use your left foot for the bassdrum? Just wondering where a dominant foot fits in here. And a double bassdrum. Which is also kind of mirrored. And then there is the existence of Danny Carey😎
Ok i get it but IMO the purpose of this setup has no intention to play songs at all and certainly not altering like that. For me it was a practice-setup to 1st) develop the same skill on both hands 2nd)also teach the mind playing the same beat in endless different ways : you can change wich fingers you use whole time while playing the same melody over and over. This disconnects the mind from playing steady muscle memory patterns it helps you later in more complex plays. Idk how to explain i hope you undrstand what I mean
thanks Dragon for the convincing inspiring and detailled explanation of your experience! Can you also tell me wich drum lib you'r using? Tjanks. Gr. herman
You did not show your layout, only mentioned you use a classical drum layout. But with pads, you can strike three or more drums at the same time. It is not possible for a classical drummer. Did you think about the layout utilizing all the benefits of pads?
I go into more detail about this in a few other videos. Here's my full pad setup video: czcams.com/video/mriT6dq05Oo/video.html And sure, you can strike up to 10 drums at once with your fingers, but for playing drums musically, this usually isn't necessary and would just create too much intensity of sound to be doing it all the time. Similar to smashing your fists on a piano. So I created my layout to be the most versatile setup possible, to be able to play any style of drums. That's why I mimicked an acoustic drum kit layout, because it works so well for that. Here's another video on the logic behind my drum kit layout: czcams.com/video/beKzDTRGZXs/video.html
Get my FREE Finger Drumming Starter Course: dragonfingerdrums.com/starter
On point, I spent years playing the mirrored layout and got to the point where I felt limited. So started from the beginning with your method and it makes sense.
Feel like I wasted too much time though
Don’t worry about wasted time! Even if you were using a different layout, your years of playing have still given you muscle memory and dexterity, so you should progress much faster with our layout that you would otherwise. Happy finger drumming!
Nice video, well explained! I think the bigger problem is the reliance on alternating strokes, moreso than the layout itself. As you say, the two often come hand in hand). I’d love to go fully hand-independent like you do but I’m just not there yet! I usually mirror my hi hat and snare, but nothing else. Without a doubt, hand independence is way more flexible - and you’re totally right that some more complex grooves are just impossible to do with alternating stroke. But I do like being able to play simpler beats with alternating strokes, and also to be able to play very simple beats with one hand. I put my kick in the lower left, the snare above and to the right of that, and the closed hat above and to the right of the snares. That lets me play simple beats one handed on the bottom row, 16th-note grooves with the alternating strokes, and also work on getting better at hand independence.
2 things.... just IMO....
First, the mirror set up doesn't really mean you will always alternate hands. You can still play primary beat with you primary, and just add accents with your off hand. Sure, some patters you can increase speed by alternating in a mirror, but that's not always the goal I think.
Second, if you learn Cajon, this is the exact same problem hehe. People who learn alternating hand patterns have problems sometimes with dominant hand driving beats with off hand fills. Those who only use dominant hand beats, they have a harder time getting the timing of alternate hand Cajon playing.
Food for thought.
Hey David! What set up do you use for finger drumming then?
I’ve been an acoustic drummer for a long time and I’ve also played cajon extensively so I’m familiar with both concepts. But right now I wanted to get into finger drumming and I’m really confused which technique to use. Both Dragon and QFG (Quest For Groove) are excellent finger drummers which makes it harder to choose, haha.
Mirror setup reminds me cajon playing but on steroids, Dragons’ "zone" layout is more like real drumming. I guess I would prefer the one from Dragon because it is really better for complex grooves but I really don’t like playing fast rolls on one pad only. I guess I’ll have to dive deeper and figure out some kind of hybrid layout that will be focused on hand separation but some pads will be mirrored (snare, hats).
Cheers!
@@honzakalnik I use the non mirrored way more. Like 98% of the time more. For me I am always on my Push... and it let's me get more different sounds available out of 16 pads. It is also easier to just pick up some new instrument, or drop in a new drum track in Ablet9n, and just go with minor patch rearranging. Mirrored is a whole set up process.
You make a good case about the realism of the hand independence, but you can easily apply that to the mirrored layout whenever you want, it's not a real issue. The biggest drawback i see for the mirrored layout is that you can afford less articulations/single sounds, since you need 2 pads for each. Probably the best idea if you want both is to mirror snare-hat-kick and have the toms and crashes only once. Again, I don't see it as limiting since you can apply hand independence techniques to the mirrored layout whenever you feel.
Edit: great video btw, even if i dont fully agree with your take
You're definitely correct, you can use the hand isolation method to play on a mirrored layout. However, from my experience in trying many different pad layouts over the years, I still don't think it's the most ergonomic layout for the hand isolation method. For the alternating hands method, the mirror layout works great, but for the hand isolation method, you want to set up your pads differently to optimize for hand isolation. I linked to my Basic Pad Setup video in the description of this video if you're interested in seeing my exact layout!
@@DragonFingerDrums yeah, i've watched that video and tried your layout. had fun with it for a couple days. there were a few things that i like to do that were awkward or impossible to execute with your layout, and ofc also a few things i felt awkward or failed to find a way to perform in my layout that were easy with yours.
i guess at the end it boils down to personal preference.
i think we're gonna see many awesome new layouts and techniques in the coming years :D
anyways, great content and great playing, keep it up!
Good video... but with all respect, it took six and a half minutes to finally get to the relevant part.
The layout that works the best for me is kind of similar to the way things are positioned in a real drum kit. Row 1: Ride, Bell, Tom1, Tom2. Row 2: Crash Left, Crash Right, snare, snare. Row 3: HH Close, HH Open, Kick, Kick. Last row is the crazy one, where I add different stuff, other HH variations and experiments. I'm left handed, so for other people this should be mirrored, I guess.
I agree with all the problems you mentioned and then I think it is not the LAYOUT itself which is a problem, but the lack of hand and or finger seperation which people encounter using mirrored setups. I got quick results using alternating hands/fingers but now I am trying to get more seperation and I think practicing paradiddles are a good way to start breaking with the alternating limbs problem.
The biggest problem with the mirrored layout I see is that you are limited to just 8 sounds.
Nice vid, I have never bought a pad set before. Its quite interesting to watch, my thoughts are everything becomes muscle member and just flows naturally once you experiment more. My problem would probably be that I have only really finger drummed over the last few years on the edge of my desk, so all my muscle memory is pretty much straight side by side like a piano without the black keys, I would love to see someone arranging a basic straight arrangement with a lot of pads maybe a max of 1" square to see how it plays. I am probably going to look at the market at some point, but see a lot of arrrays of pads out there, one weird spin on my finger drumming is sometimes its on the edge of the front of my laptop, then off the side when I am doing more complex breaks/rythms, so weirdly a couple of segragated units with straight left to right would probably suit my muscle member pretty well. Hopefully I am making some sort of sense and not ranting on too much... haha. anyways great vid and great finger drum skills there, one other side note, I would expect a pad array like that would give me pretty bad carpal tunnel problems when arching over the further away pads, so maybe that is why i finger tap they way i do for now. Greetings from Scotland
Thank You❤️😊❤️Dragon
Hi Dragon,
Im curious if is possible for you to film future videos from directly above the Maschine. I thought about attending your course, but I get a little seasick / dizzy by looking at the angle you film from above. Maybe others have it the same way.
Best regards,
Mads
I'm a guitar player with minimal drumming experience. And trying to master finger-drumming I find your approach of hands isolation more natural and convenient for me, cos this is the way I used to tap rhythm with my fingers on the table :)
But, if I understood you correctly, there is no problems with mirror layout itself, but with the way people use it - taping the whole basic rhythm with one dominant hand and using second hand for backbeats.
I have Ableton Push with smaller pads and feel uncomfortable to tap same pad with both hands (e.g. on snare). Is it reasonable to use mirror layout keeping hands isolation or "stretch" your 4x4 layout to the width using two adjacent pads for one drum resulting with 4x8 layout. Hope it's clear what I mean :)
Thanks in advance for your replies!
You’ve made a great point here, yes the actual pad placements for the mirror layout aren’t the problem, it’s the way the layout is used, with alternating hits on each hand.
You definitely could use the mirror layout and just apply hand isolation to it, although after years of trying different layouts for hand isolation myself, I believe it’s still not the most ergonomic layout possible.
If necessary for smaller pads like the Push, you can definitely put the snare (or any drum) on multiple pads!
Very interesting topic. What I don't understand is exactly why someone cannot switch to playing independently, on the fly, while retaining the mirrored layout. In other words, where does the mirrored layout impede independent playing if necessary? Or is it more of a case of some layout optimizations you are losing out on?
This is exactly what I do. Use mirror layout when it is just more convenient (ie back beats), then switch to hand independent technique when doing fills or beat variations.
Yes, there is the issue of small layout optimizations. The pad placement for the mirror layout works best with the alternating hands method of playing, whereas if you stick to the hand isolation method (which I’d recommend), there are definitely more ergonomic ways to set up your pads.
It’s ultimately a very detailed topic and I could probably make many videos on this subject in the future (and I will)!
@@DragonFingerDrumsso what do you think about the yamaha fgdp which is designed specifically for the mirrored layout
Could you share an image with your layout, please?
I think I know why some people like the mirror setup and it’s actually the very reason you don’t. Hand isolation. Mike Mangini of dream theater actually used a mirror image kit for awhile and said in an interview it was so his hands never crossed. I use a launchpad X with Logic Pro X drum kit designer which gave me 2 challenges.
1. It looks like I have much smaller pads than you so not a lot of room for 2 fingers. I solve this by doubling up.
2. Launchpad gives you an 8x8 setup divided into 4, 4x4 sections, logic only lets you use the bottom 2 squares and the top left. So I have a mirror image in the bottom 2 and extra percussion in the top left.
Works good so far but I will continue to experiment. Love the way you play. I’m learning a lot from you.
Thanks for sharing! This is definitely a fascinating debate for me. I have a student in my community forum who was sharing something similar, that he uses a mirrored layout on a 64-pad controller and thinks it's the best option in this scenario. I want to give more perspective to the topic, so I think what I'll do is purchase a 64-pad controller for myself and spend some time trying and comparing both layouts, and make a video on my results. I still have a hard time believing that a mirrored layout could be superior to a drum kit layout but I'm keeping an open mind!
Oh, with a setup like yours I couldn’t agree more. In fact I’m looking at ways to mix your setup and mine. Approaching it more like an acoustic kit but at the same time leaving two rows of pads for everything that needs it since my fingers are to huge, lol. I’ll keep you posted.
Yup I prefer to play that way too,
And then when the tempo gets high I have the option to alternate.
Your background gave you more than you know,
Skills that will not be acquired by novice learning on pads.
2 mirrored pads is superior,
You don’t need it,
But even you would be faster.
i totally agree with this video. Any musician knows that taking shortcuts eventually comes back to bite your.
Thats crazy I have that same setup. It's good that I watched this video, because I was just trying a figure out layout thats comfortable. For right not, I might just mirror the kick and snare just to work on being ambidextrous. Although, I'd don't know if it'll be valid or even useful. You said something about drummers isolating and I'm left handed so idk. I subscribed, though.
I fully agree that the alternating hand technique can be limiting, that’s why your course is useful for me - to focus on development of the hand isolated technique.
What are your thought on using hand independent technique, but retaining the mirror layout of the pads? IMO mirror pad layout is just more convenient on 64 pad controllers.
I think if you’re going to stick to the hand isolation method (which I’d strongly recommend), the mirror layout is not the most ergonomic way to set up your pads.
I am working on developing lessons on pad layout for 64-pad controllers, but until then, I’d suggest studying the Dragon Finger Drums pad layout and making adjustments and expansions to our 16-pad layout as needed. For example, using duplicate pads for the snare or anything else is totally fine!
Im curious your thoughts on this. I hate the mirror lay out super limiting.
I didn't even know that the mirror layout was a thing. I never owned an MPC, or other such product, and every drum machine I ever got my hands on always had the drums laid out in a certain way. And I guess I just got used to it.
But I agree, it's quite limiting, especially when you're trying to incorporate melodic samples.
the main problem of the mirror layout is the need for more peds)))
and hand independence applies to any layout
Thanks for the great videos! i would be very curious of your opinion and how you would manage some layout on a HPD20 handsonic (which i use of course:)
A cool approach. I think you can use different patterns just like different guitar tunings. Choose what is more effective in a given situation.
This is partially true, the Dragon Finger Drums pad layout has multiple different fingering positions to use depending on what rhythms you’re playing.
However, I would still say that if you completely change your pad layout frequently, you’ll have a really hard time developing your muscle memory to a very high level. A big part of developing skill on an instrument is muscle memory, and without some standardization, it kind of goes out the window and limits how far you can develop.
Nice stuff! What is your take on the new Yamaha FGDP-50?
So do you use your left foot for the bassdrum? Just wondering where a dominant foot fits in here. And a double bassdrum. Which is also kind of mirrored. And then there is the existence of Danny Carey😎
The first and main problem is having only 8 sounds instead of 16.
Ok i get it but IMO the purpose of this setup has no intention to play songs at all and certainly not altering like that. For me it was a practice-setup to 1st) develop the same skill on both hands 2nd)also teach the mind playing the same beat in endless different ways : you can change wich fingers you use whole time while playing the same melody over and over. This disconnects the mind from playing steady muscle memory patterns it helps you later in more complex plays. Idk how to explain i hope you undrstand what I mean
thanks Dragon for the convincing inspiring and detailled explanation of your experience! Can you also tell me wich drum lib you'r using? Tjanks. Gr. herman
I use Addictive Drums for all my finger drumming! I really love the Modern Soul & RnB pack and the Studio Prog pack from them.
You did not show your layout, only mentioned you use a classical drum layout. But with pads, you can strike three or more drums at the same time. It is not possible for a classical drummer. Did you think about the layout utilizing all the benefits of pads?
I go into more detail about this in a few other videos. Here's my full pad setup video: czcams.com/video/mriT6dq05Oo/video.html
And sure, you can strike up to 10 drums at once with your fingers, but for playing drums musically, this usually isn't necessary and would just create too much intensity of sound to be doing it all the time. Similar to smashing your fists on a piano. So I created my layout to be the most versatile setup possible, to be able to play any style of drums. That's why I mimicked an acoustic drum kit layout, because it works so well for that.
Here's another video on the logic behind my drum kit layout: czcams.com/video/beKzDTRGZXs/video.html
Showing off 😂
How do you setup this layout in the software or pads
I teach this in my free Finger Drumming Starter Course! dragonfingerdrums.com
paneling....
"Finger drummers"?
Guys, don't finger drummers!!
Nice stuff! What is your take on the new Yamaha FGDP-50?