This was an AWESOME episode! I kinda used the Ammon approach at my new job, just doing everything i could to help out and be useful, and I'm convinced it encouraged more personal conversations with coworkers.
The understanding that Ammon approach and dealing with wayward children or people that don’t believe as we do- not to destroy the relationship but win hearts! So great.
I love to think that the Lord sent Ammon for a different purpose, and so his approach was different. If Ammon hadn’t been put in prison, Aaron and the king son would not have met him on the road, and the king would not have been converted! I love that God uses every situation for our good and there is no wrong way if you’re doing the Lords work, I love this podcast so much thank you for so many great perspectives of understanding!
Perhaps the scattering of the flocks is a form of counting coup. The giving of the daughter to a new possible ally is a practice among various North American tribes. For Mike, if you carefully read Alma 18:26-19:14, Lamoni is going through his temple journey in 3 part space but all within his throne room. Yes I’ve listen to Dave and you on stick of Joseph and read his new book. We begin with the Ulam (faith, garden story, godhead, justice, carnal law), Hekal (hope, plan of redemption, Jesus, higher law, mercy, death) and Debir (charity, rebirth/resurrection, victory over sin, brought back into Eden and presence if God and the Tree of Life) all which results in total conversion. This happened with Alma the younger, and goes here also with the queen, and Lamoni’s father later on. Now I would postulate, because Ammon also falls unconscious, that perhaps up until this point he has gone through the two rooms, and it wasn’t until this time that he undergoes his own being brought through the veil into the holy of holies or the debir. We don’t know, there is no narrative on Ammon’s part whether that happens or not. Just my assumption because then it also finishes what Ammon and his other brothers had gone through, but we never saw or heard of them going through that unconscious state, seeing Christ and then coming back to life as it were being resurrected into a new redeemed self. Just some thoughts I’ve had.
With the weapons of the time it’s likely that when they say cut off the arms they actually mean the weapons, as in he disarmed them, not that there was a pile of men’s actual arms.
Cortez mentioned that the macuahuitl skill of the natives decapitated horses. So this is debatable. Check out the Habu temple inscription: www.bibleplaces.com/medinethabu/
That’s not multiple times in a row, it’s also not the momentum of the horse, it’s hand to hand combat and the weapons were obsidian in wood if they were cutting weapons… that dulls and breaks quickly. Then you have the distinction between people killed vs their arms cut off, and why would you have that? Cuz if you lost an arm you would be dead.
What happened to "Make it a great week?" The podcast just isn't the same without it.😉 Seriously, I was amazed at so many of your thoughts today. Lots to digest here.❤
I wonder if possibly those troublesome Lamanites who were mingling around with the crowd were just Lamanite bullies. Everyone feared them. Perhaps they are not unlike Alma and the sons of Mosiah before their conversion. 🤷🏼♀️
They were probably royals from a neighboring tribe. Lamoni knew it was happening but didn't stop it. This suggests a caste system in which killing servants was ok but killing nobles was not. Ammon seems unaware of this or considers it awful enough that he doesn't feel bound by it. This may be part of the oppression that Lamoni's people are glad to be free of.
I can appreciate the take, but I wonder if we aren't jumping to conclusions with the idea that Ammon did it right and Aaron did it wrong ... Aaron's approach was similar to Abinadi's, and there was a lot of "Thus saith the Lord" in Abinadi's words. Also, you make a great point in showing how Lamoni's people were humbled because of the flock issue, whereas it was Aaron's lot to have taught a more hard hearted people, who were not humbled and prepared to the same degree. I think the Lord works with His children in many ways, and having all His ways available to us is good. Ammon's way may be the most appropriate for certain circumstances, but I hesitate to say it is the way we are supposed to do it, and Aaron's way was wrong.
This was an AWESOME episode! I kinda used the Ammon approach at my new job, just doing everything i could to help out and be useful, and I'm convinced it encouraged more personal conversations with coworkers.
Ammon, "VERY DIS- ARMING" what a fun dad joke, I can't wait to 😂😊 use it. Thanks for all your efforts
Dad jokes are the best.
The understanding that Ammon approach and dealing with wayward children or people that don’t believe as
we do- not to destroy the relationship but win hearts! So great.
I love to think that the Lord sent Ammon for a different purpose, and so his approach was different. If Ammon hadn’t been put in prison, Aaron and the king son would not have met him on the road, and the king would not have been converted! I love that God uses every situation for our good and there is no wrong way if you’re doing the Lords work, I love this podcast so much thank you for so many great perspectives of understanding!
I love starting the morning with your podcast!
These episodes are great. Thanks!
I love you guys!! I listen in my car and home! I learn so much! I even flew to Utah and hiked Bryce’s canyon! 😆
Thanks Mike and Bryce! Fantastic lesson!!!
Our pleasure!
Your lesson this week was especially enlightening. Very good insights!!😊
Very good!!!! Thank you. Answered some of my questions!!!❤❤
👍
Perhaps the scattering of the flocks is a form of counting coup.
The giving of the daughter to a new possible ally is a practice among various North American tribes.
For Mike, if you carefully read Alma 18:26-19:14, Lamoni is going through his temple journey in 3 part space but all within his throne room. Yes I’ve listen to Dave and you on stick of Joseph and read his new book.
We begin with the Ulam (faith, garden story, godhead, justice, carnal law), Hekal (hope, plan of redemption, Jesus, higher law, mercy, death) and Debir (charity, rebirth/resurrection, victory over sin, brought back into Eden and presence if God and the Tree of Life) all which results in total conversion. This happened with Alma the younger, and goes here also with the queen, and Lamoni’s father later on.
Now I would postulate, because Ammon also falls unconscious, that perhaps up until this point he has gone through the two rooms, and it wasn’t until this time that he undergoes his own being brought through the veil into the holy of holies or the debir. We don’t know, there is no narrative on Ammon’s part whether that happens or not. Just my assumption because then it also finishes what Ammon and his other brothers had gone through, but we never saw or heard of them going through that unconscious state, seeing Christ and then coming back to life as it were being resurrected into a new redeemed self. Just some thoughts I’ve had.
I’m with you… I just re-read the whole thing again today and have more stuff to talk about! Thanks for listening and sharing!
With the weapons of the time it’s likely that when they say cut off the arms they actually mean the weapons, as in he disarmed them, not that there was a pile of men’s actual arms.
Cortez mentioned that the macuahuitl skill of the natives decapitated horses. So this is debatable. Check out the Habu temple inscription: www.bibleplaces.com/medinethabu/
That’s not multiple times in a row, it’s also not the momentum of the horse, it’s hand to hand combat and the weapons were obsidian in wood if they were cutting weapons… that dulls and breaks quickly. Then you have the distinction between people killed vs their arms cut off, and why would you have that? Cuz if you lost an arm you would be dead.
What happened to "Make it a great week?" The podcast just isn't the same without it.😉 Seriously, I was amazed at so many of your thoughts today. Lots to digest here.❤
I wonder if possibly those troublesome Lamanites who were mingling around with the crowd were just Lamanite bullies. Everyone feared them. Perhaps they are not unlike Alma and the sons of Mosiah before their conversion. 🤷🏼♀️
They were probably royals from a neighboring tribe. Lamoni knew it was happening but didn't stop it. This suggests a caste system in which killing servants was ok but killing nobles was not. Ammon seems unaware of this or considers it awful enough that he doesn't feel bound by it. This may be part of the oppression that Lamoni's people are glad to be free of.
I can appreciate the take, but I wonder if we aren't jumping to conclusions with the idea that Ammon did it right and Aaron did it wrong ...
Aaron's approach was similar to Abinadi's, and there was a lot of "Thus saith the Lord" in Abinadi's words. Also, you make a great point in showing how Lamoni's people were humbled because of the flock issue, whereas it was Aaron's lot to have taught a more hard hearted people, who were not humbled and prepared to the same degree.
I think the Lord works with His children in many ways, and having all His ways available to us is good. Ammon's way may be the most appropriate for certain circumstances, but I hesitate to say it is the way we are supposed to do it, and Aaron's way was wrong.
I compare Alma 21 verse 4 through verse 13 as about 10 verses of Instagram.
Could you give me the D&C chapter and verse to the Stake Servant verses stake president. Thanks!! Appreciate your hard work!!❤
D&C 124:134
17:47 😂