Why FF7 Remake Is SPOILING Its Biggest Twist
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- čas přidán 26. 04. 2023
- Square Enix and the development team behind the FF7 Remake Trilogy keep saying they're going to be making new story experiences for players, but still keep the same story.
But they're outright spoiling some of the biggest moments though Remake Part 1 and the release of Crisis Core Reunion. Are they lying to us? Are they being honest? Can they be both? Or neither? I attempt to answer.
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#FF7Rebirth #FF7Remake #FinalFantasy7Remake #FF7RemakePart2
UPDATE: I added a subtitles track thanks to the suggestion of a friend. Enjoy! (and thanks for all of the great comments and support so far)
New generations will remember ff7 as this confused hodge podge, we have no idea what's meant to be what, but like you said we will find out by the 3rd game!
Bro it’s quite simple if you listen to sephiroth he is literally playing a new game plus and everyone is ignoring his advice
Thank you for doing this. I'm the kind of neurodivergent that has trouble processing spoken audio without them. I wish real life had subtitles sometimes. Please keep this up in future but this video earned you a sub from me!
I didn't like part 1... I don't think I even managed to get halfway through. It wasn't so much the story. Honestly, the combat related systems were just a nuisance to me, it wasn't interesting, and the more linear feel to the game and fights just aren't enough. Also, knowing I was basically playing 1/4th of a story kinda killed any enthusiasm.
I wanted a straight remake. If Kitase thinks it would be boring you can add some things. You don't need to change the ENTIRE STORY. So much of the original story would FEEL new because of modern tech. Take the Cloud cross dressing. In the remake that was done in a rather fun way. That was a new experience that wasn't in the original, but didn't fundamentally change the story! I'm so ticked off at the lack of respect for the fans and Kitase further more what kind of creator is he to trash the original creation by believing it could not be brought to the modern day and be LOVED BY ALL. He didn't play a so called straight remake and think "I could do this way better" he saw it and said "THIS WHOLE MODEL SUCKS!" So he saw the original game and said "This sucks" I HAVE played FF7 several times even in the modern times. People are STILL playing FF7 and almost ALL of us have been wanting a remake a STRAIGHT REMAKE!
At the end of the day I do not believe entirely this is about thinking a straight remake sucks. I think there's a political agenda behind the scene. I don't know why it is, but just about every gaming company is heavily invested in forcing a particular type of politics into games these days.
"Unreliable Narrator replaced by Unreliable World" is the most elegant analogy to hit the fanbase since the games release. Such a tremendous essay brother. You need to be on my show.
The 'unreliable world' was what I was getting at when I was trying to describe the weird graphical glitches that seem to increase as he story progresses. I just didn't have the right terminology. I have always felt that there was in illusory nature to what we're seeing in Remake.
Barrett reveals some interesting clues in his dialogue as a form of exposition as told by a 'simple man'. When Barret (referring to the whispers) says "it's like the the building is made of them", I think there is alot of truth in that statement. Illusions of the past sounds an awful lot like what Ifalna describes at the Knowlespole.
Perhaps what is commonly though to be 'separate timelines' are just Sephiroth's illusions over Midgar with the basic intention being manipulation of our protagonists. However, those illusions may become real (or almost real) if those illusions become part of the planet's memory.
FWIW, any time I have ever used the term 'timeline' it was for the sake of brevity.
I'm down to be on anytime, man
Love your vids, babyseal!
Convoluted storytelling ≠ Good/compelling storytelling. The fact that they are going out of their way to create new confusion and mystery does not have me excited. It has me worried. The first part of the Remake already ruined any sense of power scaling or ability/universe rule-sets. They tried to set the ending up such that moving forward they can do basically anything they want with the FF7 universe. It does not breed confidence they won’t ruin the story even further.
@ZERO AIM
Changing =/= ruining.
Lets wait to see the conclusion of what they are doing, before we criticize their choices.
I share Aerith's fear at the end of the first part of the Remake.
The endless possibilities are scary.
But it's also amazing because instead of a port we got a story that will have twists we haven't experienced yet. I'm excited
I don't like what's going to happen to areith part 2😢
@@badreedinedjellali1328i dont think she will die i think this new story will give both zack and aerith a chance to live
@@willbirkin666that would be awesome! I'd love to see them together, alive & happy
But if that does happen, I bet one or two others might have to die to balance things out. (And not just Cait sith, lol) Otherwise it would feel too much like a fairytale ending
But I'm definitely excited (and nervous) to see where it all ends up
What possibilities? This is pure Kingdom Hearts. NO ONE will die. If fans squeal hard enough SquareEnix will sell an "undo" DLC
In a way, Cloud's story resonates with me. I didn't realize this until some recent reflective thinking and finally playing FF7 Remake. I joined the military after high school. My aim was to join a special forces team. It didn't matter which. I also had a childhood friend similar to how Tifa was to Cloud. She had long dark hair. She was smart, cute, and athletic. We were close at one point, almost dated, and made promises to reunite eventually. I failed at joining any special forces team for the Marine Corp. I was just a standard rifleman "grunt". I also struggled to adjust to "normal" society after leaving the military. What differed was my friend and I never reunited. Life took us on different paths.
I'm in the same boat. I played the original ff7 right before I shipped out forbthe navy and now that I'm in the fleet and I got to play the remake and CCR the whole series has taken a different form for me. Zack especially has become probably my favorite character in the series, considering how much hardship he had to juggle. Unfortunately, I can also relate to promising to rekindle a bond that didn't turn out the way I wanted either😭 I'm glad I wasn't the only one
It ain't that deep.
In the end, Cloud friend zones Tifa. Also, I'm almost 40 now and the women who I dated and the women who rejected me when I was in my late teens and early twenties are ugly now. I don't find them attractive.
Cringe
For me the story would be “Cloud a former mercenary joins Avalanche and takes down Jenova to stop Meteor from destroying the planet” I agree with Maximilian I think the main end boss isn’t going to be Sephiroth, but Jenova, and lord forgive me, Hojo in that terrifying Jenova corruption form (I am shivering thinking of how that thing will look like in remake)
Got a link to his vid?
@@FeiXenogears if you google Maximillian Dood FFVII Spoiler Mode you will find 3 videos between the release of part 1 and the most recent Rebirth trailer where he goes deep into his theories for the future of the story with the guys from Easy Allies. They are pretty long though, so maybe grab yourself a coffee!
Honestly, I would love for Jenova and Hojo to be the final boss, seeing how I think they are more villains in the series. Yes, Sephiroth did a lot of bad things. But I would love multiple endings where one every one dies and Sephiroth wins like Lavos from Chrono Trigger. It is an ending where everyone is happy, including Sephiroth kinda like the Neon Genesis Evangelion series where the Eva's don't exist, meaning Jenova never showed up. However, I believe all roads end to Dirge of Cerberus and Advent children. I hope they resolve the ending in Dirge of Cerberus because it was a cliffhanger.
I'm already of the opinion Jenovah's the real enemy. Sephiroth as an independent entity is dead IMO and his 'echo' nothing more than a metaphysical "host" for Jenovah's will. I mean Sephiroth is basically trying to do everything Jenovah does. At the end of the day he was just a man while Jenovah was this incredibly ancient, malevolent life-destroying entity.
@@entropybear5847
I agree with this 100%. However, Sephiroth will beat Jenova will. So Jenova is his Sephiroth puppet. Till Sephiroth gets his body back with the black orb.
I just want Sephiroth to have a happy ending at the end of the game. Let him be happy Square Enix
The trilogy is just Cloud when he's in the Lifestream and how he's regaining his true memories. That's why it's all discordant and unreliable; it's a visualization of the process of what he's going through during that period. His memories get mixed up, the spirit of Aerith and the spirit of Sephiroth in the Lifestream are working in tandem on him and Tifa is gonna be integral still, just like in the OG. It's his own mind piecing everything back together.
This would be brilliant but it’s too good for SE to come up with.
I mean kinda interesting but also that's a Lost tier twist that would cause so much apocalyptic skub that Meteor might as well have hit for all the damage it'd do to the FF7 fandom and franchise.
These are some good points about the characters being so central to the story. One thing I would like to touch on is how despite all of the changes, they have managed to get so many things right with the characters in every measurable way.
That said, I think the 'new mystery' is more dynamic than just Zack. Because his survival effectively puts Cloud's identiy(ies) back into question again. And there's also the 'Unknown Sephiroth'. That said, I think the new mystery actually centres around Zack, Cloud and Sephiroth equally.
Really well said. I agree. In my very first video on this channel, what made me so over the moon for FF7R (in a way that overcame my fears about the ending) was just how picture perfect the characters were. In every bit of the Compilation, they have felt “off.” But they felt spot on in Remake. That said, you bring up a pretty fascinating point: there are hints that there are now MULTIPLE personalities/versions of Cloud, Sephiroth, and Zack. It almost takes the idea of Cloud’s identity crisis and triples it. Damn… you may have unlocked what the whole trick is. Doing Cloud’s personality crisis on steroids via replicating that crisis in 2 more characters
Yea I agree! Theres still so much mystery around Seph, which is EXACTLY how the first game was as well. We think we know him from OG but we don't yet know how powerful he is or what his intentions are, or if we are going to have to fight two Sephiroths!
@@Shiftarus Or if one will kill the other, or if both will fuse. This is going to be great in a way, with its own twists.
I agree man. The characterizations are EXCELLENT. I just worry about the satisfcation of Cloud's character arc.
This is a cool idea. Sadly, I would be shocked if Square could pull anything remotely capable like this off. Their version of 'subtle' is time ghosts, twin Sephiroths, crossing into a Kingdom Hearts portal to fight fate, and giant flying skyscrapers literally at the end of the first game. It's absolutely going to degenerate into inanity. It would be the shock of a lifetime if they didn't screw this up.
Haha this is literally half the convos I’ve had about this direction. I respect their creative ambition, but I have doubts about how they’ll bring it to life.
The kh portel as you call it is aculy a Final fantasy thing.
@@indedgames4359 It isn't actually. Go replay KH2 and pay close attention to the way Organization XIII members appear and disappear. The lore is explained explicitly; they move through the Corridor of Darkness. It's honestly just a lazy way to explain away having antagonists show up to create drama for story beats. Similarly, the dark portal at the end of FF7R is the same thing. It was a narratively poor decisions to have a portal appear to another world at the end of some random highway outside Midgar for the sole purpose of creating a capstone event at the end of a game involving poorly veiled arbiters of future fate and flying skyscrapers; all of which are prominent in Kingdom Hearts games. There was nothing special about that location other than the devs wanting to do some weird shit for the sake of doing weird shit at the end of their game.
they already fucked it up. lol
@D Staiyer it's clear you've never played a final fantasy game prior. KH didn't invent portals.
If you took it as just "weird shit for the sake of it" then you didn't pay attention at all
The crux of FF7’s story is self-identity and “loveless” or rather, love and loss.
The story itself is probably closer to
“Cloud’s journey to find himself anew after losing his hopes and dreams”
So every middle aged person ever, got it.
I Feel like ff7 remake part 2 will be going heavily into the *Infinite possibilites future* meaning while us og final fantasy fans know whats going to happen,the devs make us focus on something we would expect but then turn the whole story around and hit us with a huge plot twist,but at the same time still following the general flow of the original story.Especially since i believe areith in ff7 remake already knows she is going to die and knows cloud isnt who he really thinks he is.
The topic of this video has been the biggest question on my mind since Crisis Core: Reunion was announced. I was so confused as to why no-one else seemed to be questioning it, at least not in the dozens of theory vids and discussions I've seen.
The combination of releasing Reunion when they did (revealing Cloud's true identity there first instead of in Rebirth or the third installment) and repeatedly talking about the 'Crux' staying the same just didn't make sense to me.
Thank you so much for making this video! It feels great to know that it's been on your mind too, and to hear some discussion on it!
My head has been in a blender since the CCR announcement and "crux" quotes haha. Writing this video was the first time I felt like I understood the logic. It kinda felt like gaslighting before 😂
I hate what they're doing with this so much
i feel like aerith is going to survive
but i fear more for tifa i feel like when aerith is praying for holy tifa is going to push her out the way and get stabbed
tifa is the only one who can rival that shocking scene and if zack is alive he could take over tifa's role of trying to keep cloud in line
Even thought that would be interesting story wise, I doubt SE would dare to do something like that
@@lieberteit would be a shame if they only worry about fan service and not creative storytelling.
I really do feel like the identity crisis reveal is so overlooked in the story. I've even met people who genuinely didn't even know it happened, and I have never understood HOW?? I've been sitting here for awhile wondering where this is going and I think it's likely no one has guessed it yet. A lot of predictions are wildly too obvious to me. I think you are on to some really solid points. I think the larger goal is to make players to walk away from the game not with Aerith's death scene in mind but the larger plot twist/mystery of Cloud's crisis. I do think there's a lot of fluff in there too strictly to get speculation going to keep interesting between development. An unreliable world in theory just makes me want to replay it more looking at this perspective. Thanks for planting that bug in my head hehe! Excellent work!
Thank you so much for the thoughtful response. You're an amazing creator, so I'm touched that I could make something that reached you and made you think so much.
@@SubTXT_ keep at it! You're creating great content! And thank you that means a lot to me. I sit here while I work watching CZcams all day so I love this kind of stuff!
Because people claim to play and love ff7 but have never played it so they only know hyper specific points about it.
@@JustSkram likely a lot of people who came into the series after Remake and are letting that cloud their opinion of what happens OG too. That's just one I encounter a lot anyways.
I understand the confusion. There is some ambiguity in the storytelling regarding what happened to Cloud after Nibelheim (5yrs prior), especially after you learn everything from Hojo.
i think they’re gonna kill off Barrett. Nobody thinks they will, so that’s what they’re gonna do. They teased it but the whispers brought him back, but now they’re gone and Barrett’s gonna save Aerith and take her place and it’s gonna be heartbreaking and and and we’re gonna have to tell marlene 😢
I think it'd be kind of lame to fake kill a guy, bring him back to life, and then kill him for real later. It just feels disingenuous. Aerith didn't have a fake out death in the original VII before she died for real; that was Cait Sith getting crushed in the Temple of the Ancients. And even then, it was noted he was a robot so you didn't think of it as a fake out death. If anything, Barret is probably a red herring.
That one streamer “No story I’ve read has taken me on a wild ride like this. I am obsessed with this”. I felt this from when I was in elementary school and played this game for the first time, and I feel it today at age 35. One of the best, if not the best games ever made.
Lmao Maximilian dood
That twist made this game my favorite of all time for almost 2 decades. And it wasnt nostalgia because I played 8, 9 X and X-2 before I ever got to play 7, the story was just that incredible. It's only sitting second place these days to Hollow knight lol
Wasn’t expecting the Neon Genesis Evangelion reference, but it fits so perfectly 🥲
Yes, they want us to play FF VII for the first time again, and I could not be more excited
Yet keep in mind, Cloud's mental state is still central to the story as many of his freakouts and headaches happened in Remake, and all of them were presented as a big deal. So that still has to be resolved in some way. Plus, it's now been enhanced, because not only is he dealing with the same internal struggle from the original VII, he was/is also getting new communications (future visions, etc) from both the planet and Sephiroth.
I love that you showed people's reactions to the original twist from youtubers to accentuate the idea that this twist was a genuine gut punch
Yeah and they're all pretty new players. All of these videos were from the last 3 months or so. Every time I see someone new to the series react to the moment felt like confirmation that it wasn't just a product of its time.
Very well done video!!
I personally struggle with this topic as I think I have attachements to the original that make it mine - no longer theirs. That will always be the struggle when remaking something beloved by so many. A new mystery is fine with me but I await to see if it is worth it at the expense of the fundamental changes they have already made. I have way too much to say on this subject that its like a blender of thoughts in my head I have a difficult time putting it to words. You have done a tremendous job putting your thoughts into words in this video and it was a wonderful watch! Great video!
Hahaha, I get what you're saying. Despite this video helping me wrap my head around their creative intent -- which I outright respect them for as bold, daring creatives -- I can't lie and say it still doesn't scare me. I hope they succeed at what they're going for. But it is definitely a risk.
Every major ff7 streamers are here. Like checking the comments. I love Final FanTV. You are unique.
Big win point for our host.
@Aazhmaan Thanks so much! That means a great deal to us!
SubTXT has done a great job with this video. I'm also glad to see so many showing up in the comments! Well deserved
@@FinalFanTV it’s really wild for me to see so much of the FF7 creator community sharing and commenting on this vid. I’ve been a big fan and follower of so many people here. I’m glad I made something that got everyone talking.
@@SubTXT_ wich is what ther alwsxs Do at square.
They're spoiling it cause this is a sequel to FF7. It's not a remake. They're assuming everyone already knows. That story and twist isn't important anymore.
It's weird to me when people say things like "I can't wait to see X moment in the later games!", when the entire point of the "remake" was to say "We're going to do whatever we want going forward."
Like... you fight the literal embodiment of Fate. Aka, the original sequence of events.
You recreate the climactic Sephiroth fight at the very end of the game, at the end of the first game. Despite Cloud not having made any character growth that made that moment impactful, cause he hasn't even left Midgar yet. Ontop of that fight being in Clouds mind to symbolize his overcoming his influence/trauma.
Do people think that fighting Fate, on a different plane of existence, before you even left Midgar, is just a one off thing, or something? Like, there's no such thing as escalation? That fight alone is on par, or above, fighting Safer-Sephiroth, the final fight of the entire game, in terms of scope. Done before they leave Midgar. Like... the Weapons are lesser on scale and scope, than that. You fight and kill the physical manifestation of a concept. (Which, is apparently the will of the planet, even though they claim to be doing all this for the planet, and it literally saved their lives multiple times in the last 20 min before they decide to fight it.)
Sorry. I got a lot of issues with the remake that fans of the original just don't see, and it frustrates me, cause... I don't see how you CAN'T see it, and I need to release it sometimes. Like... why does no one care that Biggs, Wedge, and Jesse survive? Cause you like their characters? Well then you missed the entire point of their deaths in the original. (God, don't get me started on the pillar section)
This isn't FF7, it's trying to use FF7 to sell you another fantasy story about alternate dimensions and timelines and all that crap. Stuff that's very non-FF7
I'll shut up, now.
22:24 was the main question I had and leads me to believe that this will eventually be a multiverse tale. Those screens you posted on Twitter the other day with Sephiroth talking about how he already figured it out and became a traveler of the Life Stream enforces this, along with everything that happens at the end of Remake as well as the meeting near the twirling heavens (area you fight Seraph Sephiroth in OG) in remake.
Yeah. It's so funny because no matter how confident I feel about their creative intent (as described in this video), I'm pretty much at a loss for what will actually HAPPEN. I just hope it's anywhere near as good as the OG Lifestream sequence.
Absolutely phenomenal insights. The distinction between Story and Plot is critical, and I think you make compelling points. The juxtaposition with Evangelion and Jurassic Park are surprisingly helpful too.
Thanks so much. I really put a lot of brain matter to work trying to figure this craziness out haha
I played every final fantasy 7 game there is I started with final fantasy 7 before crisis core that fun i played other final fantasy game s but final fantasy 7 is the greatest two characters I don't like is Barrett and cid Barrett caused the death of Marlene s mother when Marlene was a baby and caused the death of his own wife Myrna and got his and dynes arms shot off by Scarlett he messed with reactor and shinra decided to teach him a lesson Barrett s home Town is Mt coral and Marlene s father is dyne not Barrett and look what he did in sector 7 he may not of dropped it but he caused it and cid he verbaly abuse his wife dyne is Marlene s father
This is a fantastic video. You did your homework on this topic and it clearly shows. I’m so hyped to see what they have in store for us in Rebirth
I've been intrigued by the Jurassic Park example and how it relates to other things.
RE4 Remake its mostly the same plot. It is the same story, but the tone has been altered and backstories have been fleshed out. Most people are happy.
The Rebuild of Evangelion is essentially the same story, but different plot. Most fans are lukewarm to negative overall.
Mad Max Fury Road. It's a sequel story with a new plot, but fundamentally a similar story to all the other movies. It's essentially a 2015 version of a 1980s movie and a fantastic achievement in modern cinema.
Blade Runner 2049 is another sequel that largely follows a similar story structure to the original. The crux of the story follows a similar mystery and the movie manages to surpass the original in a lot of ways.
The thing that scares me with FFVII is the tacit admission of disinterest and fear by opting not to look more closely at the original FFVII plot and fleshing it out. Creating a new plot to uphold the crux of the story, but not entirely changing it so as not to up end the original sounds pointless and contradictory to me. Either make a new story with its own original themes like FFX-2, or stick to what FFVII was on the page. It's the worst of both worlds when it can neither be truly its own thing or a grand recreation of the original, and instead being forced into this fan fiction bizarro alternate mystery that is ultimately stuck behind living in the shadow of the original. The two aspects of Remake will be forever fighting each other. It's pointless to get on a gondola ride with Aerith when time travelling future Sephiroth is on the loose and equally pointless to be fighting Destiny when we spend the next day asking ourselves what Sephiroth wants, and recapping the Nibelheim flashback. The "I've played this before," nostalgia problem. What adds insult to injury with this series are that most guesses about where the plot is headed are either so self involved in nonsensical convolution so as to be incomprehensible to anyone who doesn't follow the Compilation extremely closely or the guesses themselves are essentially just memes about how whacky and ineffective the storytelling is. "Lol, Kingdom Hearts Lifestream sword. Friendship saves the day." It's depressing to see just how deep the identity crisis goes with this series.
None of really know what they are doing exactly with the 7R trilogy, it's extremely hard to make absolute judgements about what they should or should not be doing when we don't even know which theory is correct or not. I understand the unknown can make some resort to cynicism and deriving justifications for feeling that way, but I would say it's best to just give something chance first before jumping to conclusions.
That’s a fair point of view. I actually really liked the Eva Rebuild movies, but it is so different that it’s hard for me to compare. If I had to choose, I choose the show because of the relational intimacy between the characters was stronger, but I didn’t “dislike” the Rebuilds. The show just felt tighter while the Rebuilds meandered a bit to get to its same core story ideas. Then again, I also watched them back-to-back and so the show didn’t burrow itself into my brain quite as much as it did if I watched it long before the movies.
As for FF7R, I really don’t know what my stance is. If I had to bet money, I’d probably bet I like the OG more than the final new trilogy. But as long as I don’t hate it, then I can probably live with it even if a bit disappointed.
It’s all commercial. A product. A board of directors trying to determine what form will sell the most copies. It’s why we didn’t get a definitive answer on how many parts it was going to be until after they found out how well it sold. Think about it.
For ffxv they were so willing to change fundamental elements based on public perception of the demos. They’re not making art, they’re not telling a story that means something and would be impactful, they’re looking at market trends and trying to capitalize on what they believe will sell. There’s what the remake was going to be, there’s the version that they reshaped it into after the feedback they got from the first part’s release, and there will inevitably be another correction between the second and third to find that perfect marketable sweet spot.
That’s the most cynical take, and I believe it’s the truth, but maybe not 🤷♂️ who knows. I know I’d love to be proven wrong.
@@maninblack3410 There's no guarantee or reason that changing the story would make them more sales than keeping the story the same, this is something the developers wanted to do regardless of the outcome.
@@ryanharrison3118 okay, if they had it planned out why didn’t they know before releasing part 1 that there would be 3 parts? To me it’s obvious: they were testing the market before committing to how many they’d invest in.
This tracks very well. As a day 1 fan of the original the thing that really struck me the most about ff7R beyond the world the visuals what’s changed or hasn’t, the biggest takeaway, the devs keep finding a way to give us the same feelings in new ways. A scene will happen it will be fundamentally changed but in a way that sneakily point at the same emotion of the original. Somehow this accomplished the impossible both old and new fans get to experience the story and feel it for the the first time all over again! Even when new moments are added it somehow strikes at the core feeling of the previous event that was changed
It's funny because both positive and negative reactions to what you describe are valid. For me, playing FF7R was like experiencing the game again for the first time. How often do you get to experience something for the first time ALL OVER AGAIN. It was magic. That said, some of the new additions like the Whispers were jarring and not all that great in execution. So I understand how those things could rip people out of it and make them hate it. Luckily, it seems we're in the same boat of feeling like the good far outweighed the bad.
@@SubTXT_ yeah I agree with that whole take it worked for me really well but see why it bugs some people still we always have the original so I’m here for it!
@@SubTXT_ I think the whispers being so out of place and jarring are design choices
This was brilliant, I never thought about the unreliable narrator being replaced with an unreliable world, but it fits so well. Awesome work!
Excellent, Exceptional, Extraordinary video. Words of a true fan who knows how to say it like it is. Been searching for an FF7 content creator like yourself, happy to find you.
Instant subscribe ✅
I personally played remake 1st and then played the OG after loving the remake so much. And I realized my only gripe (if you can even call it that) was how FF7R wasn't marketed as a sequel, since thats what is. I enjoyed FF7R so much more after that realization. Im so excited for this game...❤ mice video btw! Will definitely check more out
For me that gripe was eliminated by the necessity for the player to realize organically that FF7R is indeed a sequel and to connect the dots themselves. They knew going into it that part 2 wasn't going to be released for years so they had to do something that would keep people talking for the interim period of time. This video is a great example of them knocking it out the park in that respect. They kept us all theorizing and talking and realizing things that we didn't know before. In terms of building us up for part two, I think they've done a phenomenal job. Once I realized that this was what their intent was behind all of the mystery and futureRoth sightings in the game, my score for this game went from a solid 8.5 to a 9.5 easy.
@khara7585 I definitely agree with your points. It's why I barely call it a gripe. I felt inclined to play the OG after and then when I replayed the remake my mind was blown. But that only happened after my OG playthrough; I just can't assume that everyone will do that even though they absolutely should. Especially if Remake was their 1st ff7. Also, I only say this because during my 1st playthrough I had no clue that all the og references and sequel hints were... THAT lol I just thought they were things that also happen in the og.
Glad you could offer something to a much debated topic.
Feel the developers are not wasting any effort hiding the mystery we all know about. Instead using our prior knowledge of events to create a unreliable world/narrative we hold onto. Most of which the actual game may not be setting up the way we think.
Dude, i remember ny dad being so excited when the remake came out so he played it for me and my mom and i remember seeing that part where cloud sees the marteria falling down the steps and i was so confused. He wnded up playing the og game which was way more enjoyable to watch. It also dosent make sense on why Cloud would see that
24:30 Kitase and co’s comments are similar to how Hideaki Anno wanted to make the rebuild series for Evangelion back in the early 2000’s to remake the series (keeping the original story beats) but adding new things on top of it.
FFVII Remake Trilogy is Square-Enix’s own “rebuild of Evangelion”. (But slightly different) It’ll be interesting to see where they go with this but we’ll see. Awesome video!! Your points solidified the paths of where FFVII R Trilogy is going.😤🙌🏾🙌🏾
But also its fundamentally different. Rebuild was a retelling of the original story of Evangelion. The FF7Re series is, at it's core, a sequel to OG FF7 as FutureRoth has returned and is meddling in the character's lives in the present day. I get where you are coming from, though!
Very well put together dude, I believe this will be your breakout video!
Thanks man. This was definitely my toughest video to figure out, but the response has been pretty amazing. Feels good.
That Evengelion link is actually...pretty spot on. I've never really thought about that before.
Great vid though man. Amazing work
Some of the best theory crafting I’ve seen about FF7R. Straight to the point. Not cryptic. Excellent research from an obvious fan. Hope you get monetized soon and keep this going 😎
I'm really interested in how they will tackle the first flashback of Nibelheim in Rebirth. Will Barret ask like, "who the hell is this Sephiroth guy we have been fighting??"
100% How they handle that flashback will REALLY set the tone. Especially after seeing Nomura specifically reference it as one of the things that would make people go "Yeah, yeah, I know all this." It's such a direct hint that it won't be remade 1:1.
Amazing video brother! I'm not gonna lie. Them spoiling the twist about Cloud & Zack infuriated me at first. That's by far the best, most emotional & most important part of FFVII. I still can't understand them encouraging people to play CC Reunion before Rebirth & part 3. I truly hope it's worth it. I mean even in Remake it was already kinda spoiled... I'm not sure they realize how good the tradeoff in Rebirth or part 3 has to be to make ruining that reveal worth it. But I hope they manage to pull off something... I have no idea how though.
Yeah, it really infuriated me too. While everyone was happy about the Crisis Core remake, I was like, "They're giving this away already!?" All I could think about was how massive of a spoiler it is for new players... which obviously inspired this video. I also convinced myself that Hojo's "You were not a SOLDIER" line was maybe such a short moment that it wasn't a spoiler. But the release of CCR made it clear that it was.
@@SubTXT_ The Hojo moment, in german he says: No, you're not. In reality you are just (the part after that is muted). So he was told that he wasn't a soldier, but he still didn't hear the full truth, since Hojo was stopped by the whispers.
This was such a great video! I got completely sucked in and it made me so excited for Rebirth! (Also, if this is SubTXT from Twitch, I just got recommended your video on my suggested feed! HAHA! So awesome! :D )
OMG hey bats! And yeah, it is me.
Im glad I found this video. I've been replaying Remake, and personally am obsessed with the notion that things will be different. It leaves me constantly wondering what will be different what won't be and why. As well as counting major plot points out numerically to try and set which ones aside for REBIRTH and and part 3. Heck it has me teetering back and forth on whether the part 2 will end at Aerith's end. Or, cloud giving the black material to sephiroth and the summoning of meteor as its ending. Leaving the Junon, reacquiring cloud, lifestream, midgar attack, weapons, and northern cave for part 3.
For what it’s worth, I think it ends with the summoning of Meteor or some similar doomsday reveal.
Dude you need more subscribers. You actually managed to put to perfectly accurate words the feeling I always got from the devs' statements, and remove the confusion, frustration and fear around those same statements❤
Ironically, that’s how I felt when I finished the script for this. I still don’t know if I’ll like the end result, but at least I understand what they’re trying to do. Before putting all this together, I was just confused and felt somewhat lied to.
I’d like to counter your argument.
By allowing Zack to live, it preemptively progresses the story of part 2, which allows for more creative decisions and to focus on other mysteries that now plague the game.
Cloud doesn’t regain his memory till far later in the original FF7, this twist is now fairly irrelevant because everyone who has played the original knows this…it’s not a twist anymore.
By allowing Zack to meet Cloud again, it will force a new timeline and have Cloud reach that point faster. This will allow the writers to build upon what is happening in the remake, what does Aerith know (hinted throughout FF7 remake for example).
We also don’t exactly know what is happening with Zack, because after the end of FF7 remake when the team defeats the whispers it then changes the timeline somehow.
Perhaps the Zack we see at the end of FF7R is on another tangent timeline. Nothing is explained.
Why would the writers play the same story beats? It would detract from the mystery they have in place.
I don't think you countered my argument. If you watched the video, It seems like we agree. It's all about setting up a new mystery rather than keeping Cloud's memory as the mystery that drives the story forward -- and shifting what's unreliable from Cloud's recollection to the reality of the world itself. They've giving away Cloud's mystery in order to make way for a new one.
@@SubTXT_ dude your title is like, misleading so.....
@@SeferAngeloEspiritus how is it misleading? The video attempts to make explain “Why FF7 Remake is spoiling its biggest twist”(Cloud’s true backstory)
@@SubTXT_ well this just my opinion but title misleads to questioning the devs why it is changed
This is perfectly explained. They want us to be uncertain about the events to come, because they want to recapture the experience that we had while playing the OG. What we felt, the mysteries, the surprises, these are things that would be impossible to experiment again if we go through the exact same story.
Replacing plot points by new ones allow them to recreate the sense of mystery they made the players go through in the OG. It also remove the predictability that come with remaking the exact same story.
Not knowing if Aerith will die the same way is a huge game changer.
I love this approach, this is the most creative way of remaking a beloved game. They want us to actually feel these emotions like it was the first time.
I came here because of baby seal. I really enjoyed your outlook on how Remake, Rebirth, & the trilogy are trying to change while capturing the same feeling as the original. We have the same mindset on that for sure
The way I've been looking at it this whole time is; FFVIIR is actually a sequel, thus the creators are continuing a story that has already begun. Also meaning that they're relying on the audience to know the previous plot points. Great video, I can't wait to see what Rebirth reveals.
So they’re changing the story based on his own habits and bias towards remakes effectively risking ruining it for millions of others
except its explained in like the 3rd to last chapter in the remake by Aerith that this is a time travel requel, she tries to explain that she used the life stream to transfer her consciousness into her earlier self, and Sephiroth did similar with the Stigmata, however as we see throughout the earlier game with this revelation and during this confession her memories of future events were suppressed and anytime they came out and let her try and change events the ghosts try to correct the timeline, they are even present during the confession trying to shut her up and not explain it to the party (in Shinra Tower).
so, the same story but with altered plot
aerit's death is one of the cruxes of the story, but the plot is how she dies and when, this might change, cloud regaining his true self with tifa is also part of the crux of the story, but they might not dive into the lifestream this time or the sequence might change, among other examples
the core essence of ff7 is not changing, but how it's represented is different, these changes are also possible by the return of zack, sephiroth and aerith possibly gaining knowledge of the future and trying to change it, and the effects all of this have on the lifestream
Yeah, that is essentially what I believe. As for Sephiroth and Aerith gaining knowledge of the future, I do think that element is more intensified in the Remake trilogy and at another level, but there were even hints of it in the original too. Aerith seems to be working on some kind of premonition when she first goes to the City of the Ancients on her own and Sephiroth talks about "traveling the lifestream" and gaining the knowledge of the Ancients when hovering over the Temple of the Ancients.
@@SubTXT_ totally agree with you
The one aspect I see as a saving grace for those who want a true to form remake is that likely a majority of the assets and cutscenes will be created, when the trilogy is finished, to be able to easily create a remake that is accurate to the original. Perhaps they will finish this alternative universe story, then turn around and release the actual remake in its complete and true to the original form.
You have no idea yet how the game will be at the end. Just because some elements change it doesnt mean the story wont have the same shape.
Just screaming “is different1!1l” is an incredibly low intelligence/high emotions move. There is no telling yet. Might this be nessecary in the end if the story becomes Kingdom Hearts? Sure. But so far I dont think the changes have morphed the story allot. Again, just because there are big additions and changes doesnt mean the story itself is going to go off in another direction and/or have a different shape
@@mikev8746 this take is wild considering Zack at the end of part 1, but how do you reconcile this thought now that multiple universes are “colliding” as the trailer puts it? Still in kh denial or has it sunk in that this is no where near a remake? Much less anything that can be considered “faithful”
@maninblack3410 I never said at the time it was one or the other. My point was that no one really knew. And we still don't exactly know what universes colliding means. It could be that the events of timeline Remake are very close to OG and then the Zack timeline goes off the rails but it's this new separate thing. And then the merging could be less impactfull than it sounds. It could also not be, who knowssss.
And I really don't get what you people constantly mean by pointing out divergences and screaming that it's not a remake. Who ever said it had to be a 1:1 remake? Hell RE4R isn't an exact remake. Few remakes really are. Why are you people so autistic about this whole matter? You can't enjoy a remake anymore the moment it has diverged even the slightest bit from the OG? I bet you have the exact same dinner every day every week in sequence. Wearing the same clothes for years aswell lol.
Come on man. If the game stays close to the OG and the themes in the end that's great. And if it ends up anywhere else we can judge it after it's released. We just can't know right now. See thats the issue with allot of FF7R naysayers. You are so afraid of change that you already tell yourself it's bad. You can't even allow your mind to have some form of uncertainty as you move about your day for a couple years until the game is actually out. Your entire point of trying to get me out of a self imagined 'denial' speaks volumes of your own thoughts. You're so focused on what you think and feel about the game you think everyone else is on that same train of thought lol. I don't care man. I will see it when it's released.
I feel like the Remake series is setting Zack up as a primary antagonist.
I feel that he'll be the one having an identity crisis, because he keeps arriving behind Cloud and his accomplishments, and feels that Cloud is robbing Zack of his life path.'
great video bro. also after your wrap up, i laughed at the person playing getting into the fight with sephiroth, dodge rolling a dozen times while sephiroth did nothing and then still getting hit with blizzaga. that was funny
LOL. I didn't even notice that. What was the strategy there? hahaha
Great video and ever greater point... I never thought to compared original FF7 with the original Neon Genesis Evangelion and that the FF7R would be like Rebuilding of Evangelion, that actually gives me great hope for the remake games to be an extremely unique experience. Thanks.
Thanks! I had never seen Eva until seeing a few other people mention it in the community, and so it had me go and check it out. Such a fantastic series too.
Something i haven’t heard any FF7R content creator talk about is, if there is an alternative reality Zack, then there should also be an alternative reality Cloud, so how is our cloud gonna react when not just Zack, but a whole other cloud shows up in front of him?
I was thinking about tackling that in another video as well. But, in short, it’s gonna MESS HIM UP mentally
There's another fun twist to the changes in Remake: if the developers are following the 3 Act Jo/Ha/Kyu cycle seen in a lot of Japanese storytelling, including the Rebuild of Eva and the original game, then aren't the Whispers the "Kuroko"? It seems rather telling that we shouldn't "see" them unless we're "off script".
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo-ha-ky%C5%AB
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuroko
Oh wow, that certainly seems to explain why they look the way they do. Felt odd that they were made to look like Dementors (Western POV), but it's definitely gotta be a reference to this.
Dude well done, super solid explanation and brilliantly written. On my first play I knew there were going to be some major changes later on (I immediately theorized that Aeriths death wasn’t going to happen) however, the least enjoyable parts to me of Remake were the Whispers and the ending (tell me the final chapter doesn’t feel like you’re playing a new game all of a sudden) And that’s the problem. The nostalgia while playing the game in a new way was the drive for me and not the idea of getting a Kingdom Hearts 4. I get the idea of keeping the mystery, but that’s not why I’m playing it. I’m getting to see the game in a whole new light, and that’s all I want
Im trying to take a wait and see approach with ff7 remake. I can't say I love the changes, but with only one game out that barely covers 1/10th of the full story I feel like its waaaaaaay too early to have an opinion on the whole thing.
Ok but what really bothers me is does anyone remember that when cloud first meets Hojo in OG that Hojo doesn’t even remember who tf cloud is. Lol. In this one he’s like “Cloud my boy!” I was like…excuse me?!! You didn’t even give him a number…and that pathetic scene at the northern crater where cloud begs Hojo to give him a number. Aghhh! Lol
They actually kept this to some degree in Remake. When Cloud first confronts him, Hojo is unsure who he is before remembering. Here is the full exchange:
Hojo: "Well, no matter. Reinforcements will soon arrive."
Cloud: "But will they get here in time to save you from me?"
Hojo (recognizing the uniform): "My, are you a SOLDIER? "
Cloud: "Yeah."
Hojo (remembering): "No, not quite. Oh, now I recall. My memory was mistaken. My boy, you weren't a SOLDIER..."
Considering I didn't like the majority of changes to the story in part 1, I'm not too optimistic about them trying to make a new twist. Especially if it's multiverse/time travel bs.
The 1st mission was perfect. Stayed accurate to events while still mixing things up enough to stay fresh and new dialogue to flesh out characters more.
Excellent video dude! This is pretty much what I've been saying to some fans I've chatted to who have been feeling pessimistic about the new direction, though you were able to explain it in much more detail! Happy to say some of them ended up feeling more hopeful about the future of the game. I think the statements from the developers after the rebirth trailer also helped as I think a lot of people were expecting the story to go completely off the rails and not follow any of the beats of the OG. Even saw some stuff about a fake leak saying crazy stuff like Cid wont be playable and will just be a merchant that follows you around and they are gonna replace him with Cissnae and kill off Cloud halfway through the game or something dumb like that😅
On that last point though, I do feel like Cloud could potentially die at or near the end of the story and I expect you've already heard this one before. The idea that Sephiroth is bound to the world through Clouds memory of him and at some point he will realise he must sacrifice himself to break the cycle. Also feel like they would be more likely to take this direction if Aerith survives or is brought back somehow. But who knows. All in all I am mega excited to see where this story goes. Pprobably the most I've anticipated the release of a game since Skyrim, maybe ever.
Anyway, good luck with the channel man. Will be keeping up with your videos and am looking forward to the next trailer and seeing what you and the other theory crafters will be saying about it :)
I've been saying for a while that I think they're just trying to give us hope that Aerith will live, so that they can rip our hearts out all over again. Think about it. How can that moment possibly be as impactful as it was the first time. It can't. UNLESS, they let us think they're changing it to let her live first.
I think she actually WILL live first. But then, the fact that she (and Zack) lived, is going to cause Sephiroth to win. Once she realizes this, I think she'll go back and let it happen all over again. And that's when we'll have our hearts ripped out all over again.
I don't know exactly how it'll work out, but I agree with you overall that they will let us THINK she will survive... but she won't. I just think her death is just too important thematically.
I really hope she doesn't survive, Aerith's death is literally one of the most iconic and most powerful moments in gaming history, that's why people still talk about it a quarter of a century later, it would be insane to erase that
People think she's already dead in Zack's reality/timeline. And I don't think she'll be killed in the main timeline. I think they'll have their cake and eat it too by having Zack's Aerith and living Aerith both summon the lifestream at the end.
i think by the end of FFVII remake project, the OG story will be the only true timeline. that's kinda the point of the remake project; to re-make the original without replacing it
i don't expect any sort of stupid rug pull though; the creators emphasized the difference in themes being reflective of their different views on life in general
aertih only died in the original because the creative perspective was bleak as fuck at the time
Thank you for the clip. I sometimes have a hard time explaining FF7 to others even though I have played OG and the remake many times. This can help me refresh my thoughts once again. Hope to see more content in the future.
The way I see it, while he is missing memories and misremembering things, like him being in SOLDIER and not a regular Shinra soldier, he doesn't have the identity crisis in Remake. In the original, Tifa had to remind him about their promise, but Cloud remembered it and thought about it on his own in Remake while on a mission, no Whispers or Sephiroth present, so he clearly still recalled his past for the most part, it's just key details that had slipped his mind, things related to what happened at Nibelheim. His personality is also more like Cloud's as a child, distant from everyone but Tifa but gradually warming up if you were nice to him, and not like OG Cloud, who is confused on if he's Cloud or Zack and being a cocky loner as a result. He was actually starting to be friends with the rest of Avalanche, something that OG Cloud was too stand-offish to do, something I think Biggs even commented on when he was dying, that Cloud was still so cold even when next to a dying man.
In the trailer for the 2nd one, Cloud's asking what I assume to be Zack, whether directly or indirectly, "You were there five years ago. What happened to you? Where did you go?" so he clearly remembers someone there, just...not his name, or all the details.
The big confusion, for him, is apparently time-traveling Sephiroth going back to try to change things and the Whispers trying to keep things the same. But, since they defeated the Whispers, things that they directly caused to happen (Zack losing the fight, Biggs, Jessie and finally Wedge dying) didn't happen. Same with anything Time-Travel Sephiroth caused, like Barret's death, it just didn't happen. They still remember it, but it was like a bad dream. And it's likely that only certain people DO remember it. Zack remembers there being WAY more than there were, but in truth there weren't that many, the Whispers just make him think there were. Biggs, and Jessie might remember their deaths, but are relieved to find out it was a nightmare. Wedge probably managed to make it out okay instead of being killed by a stampede of Whispers.
I for one am excited to get to know this new version of Cloud. Also, I think he was communicating with OG Cloud, because he was talking about his own fall into the church, though it was very vague. So, who knows? I love multiple timeline stuff, so I'm hyped.
Square fucked up and the head of this has zero respect for the OG game or the fans of it.
Specifically calling the events of OG through Red 13's mouth "the bad ending".
I'm glad for the people I managed to convince to play OG before RE because Square shot it's load in the Part 1 of all major things that you find out mid-way / at the end of OG. It's a disgrace.
Thanks for a fantastic video! I may be misremembering something, as I know Jenova led to the demise of the ancients, but why did the ancients not completely destroy Jenova? With their connection to and knowledge of the livestream, surely they knew Jenova's power was connected to the livestream.
I don't know why the new writers are so obsessed with Zack that they need to shoehorn him into the remake. It's why I've pretty much disconnected from the remake. It doesn't seem to want to even tell an adaptation of the story of FF7.
It's pretty obvious wasn't it? Sephiroth from the Advent Children movie went back in time to try and fix his L, his fate, and turn it into a W. Aerith also knows what's going on 100%.
The Final part 3 will be that Cloud wakes up (after beating the final boss) from his machine bed. Then he goes out and we see Tokyo. Final Fantasy 7 was a simulation.
yep.
Man. It’s actually really clever. We know what we remember as players but now being faced with a reality that’s completely different but very similar. Similar to how cloud remembered everything. They have done great and the purest in me low key hates it but this has gotten me excited for the game in a way I never thought possible about a remake. Hopefully they show us something this Wednesday.
I'm expecting our sequels to take a more macro, overarching look at the story and plot elements as opposed to the micro, Cloud-centric focus we had in the OG. The only issue I grapple with is if the developers learned anything from players' reactions to the sheer exposition dump in chapter 18. Even the sudden Cait Sith cameo during platefall raised a lot of eyebrows.
Going into part 2, the one thing I'm keeping my eyes on is Aerith's warning of the party members themselves changing. From Remake's beginning to its end, the group that leaves Midgar is not the same as they were in OG.
Reeves feels a shock, gets up from his desk, looks out the window, and gets sad/angry. The little Cait Sith plushy he has at his desk falls over.
That's all they had to do there.
As much as I enjoyed the "remake", I didn't like that they showed Sephiroth throughout the whole game. Took the mystery away as we don't really find out about him till the end of the Midgar section. With that said, I'm treating this as as "requal" where the story can go in any direction which is exciting and new for OG fans.
Wonder how things would have gone if it was a certain percent of the party that was killed like was in the original script compared to settling to have Aerith die. Imagine the players reaction if they had random party members each play through die causing a difference in the story. That would have been an interesting concept in the PS1 days though hard to do.
I think it would've been better tbh. It would be like Evangelion and the whole remake thing would've made a bit more sense.
Excellent video, man. Really eloquently speaks to my core anxieties on the remake project without being too pessimistic about it. I appreciate that!
I have the same exact anxieties. It's really what triggered this video. The only problem is that I don't know if either of us will be satisfied with where they land, but at least I feel like I understand their creative intent.
This is an awesome video! Love your analysis and hope that you're right, to be honest. It still won't measure up to the OG for me by any means, but if they do mean to go this route, I hope they do it well!
OMG LULLY! I've enjoyed a ton of your vids. Don't worry, I feel very much in the same place as you. I love the OG so much that it'll be hard for this new approach to hit the same way, but I respect their creative ambition. Even if it's risky as all hell haha.
That fear of the unknown was pretty strong in the original game, but in modern days it's fear of what Squeenix may be doing to your childhood.
There's been a running joke for a while now that they'll add the "Aeris Lives" DLC for $4.99 in the next part. That's definitely an exaggeration but it does reflect the fact that Squaresoft just isn't the company that it used to be. I really hope they have some genuinely good ideas coming because I'm already concerned after seeing a lot of what looks and feels like padding to make the game longer so they can sell us more parts in the remake already.
Haha, that opening paragraph explains the anxiety I’ve had about this project pretty well.
I will say that they have a LOT of story to cover in just 2 more games, so I am actually hopeful that they won’t have much padding.
I've been thinking the same thing ever since Crisis Core: Reunion was released.
Every Final Fantasy 7 fan needs to watch this video!
My First final fantasy 7 game was crisis core for the psp, after that I played the original final fantasy 7 and still found joy in the flashback but missed my hero Zack, but then playing the remake part 1 followed by crisis core reunion I noticed they didn't really change Zack's death they showed how he died in the crisis core but think of this in the original he was shot and killed with his back to the enemy so in the remake he could've got close to Midgar but realized he was being followed so he left Cloud with the Buster sword trying to get away leading the people away from Cloud so he would live, Cloud without Zack's notice gets up and leaves finding Tifa and thinking Zack is dead. When they leave Zack makes his way to the church and sees all of what Shinra did so he goes after them leaving his fate up to Shinra.
The Rebirth trailer that came out last year shows him and Cloud walking together very close to the walls of Midgar. Even closer than they ever got in the OG (on a cliffside overlooking OG in the scene where he’s shot in the back). Also, did you play the Yuffie DLC for Remake. There’s more new Zack content in there.
@@SubTXT_ No I haven't yet I would love to but I do not have a gaming PC, so I bought a PS5 but don't have the money for the DLC.
I didn’t find that twist as big as everyone I guess. The biggest twist for me was Sephiroth never physically interacted with Avalanche and it was Jenova the whole time.
That was a great essay. I am all for those changes btw. We wouldn’t theorize so much about FF7R if the story was 100% the same thing again. I really appreciate this approach, even though there is obviously a big risk involved
Aha
Brilliant Video! really well paced and thought provoking too! I never considered that they are trying out a new twist to really shock us based on our past nostalgia! I figured they want to keep the game fresh but never saw it in that perspective! Amazing work dude!
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed
Yes, I think Aeriths death is part of the Story. I have seen the developers telling that they wanted the sudden and definite character of that feat ingrained in the plot of the original to drive home that nail in our emotions. Also Aerith kind of warned us that we shouldn't fall in love with her. They would significantly be toying with us if she would keep her alive, even more when they then kill off Tifa for good measure and frankly, it wouldn't even surprise me that much. Still from my understanding Aeriths death is ingrained in the story and how it develops.
That doesn't mean though that they should let her die in the same passive fashion or moment. It wouldn't suit the plot. Aerith seems to know the future and is playing chess throughout remake. Also the way her character is written like she is quick witted, wise, brave, able to handle herself and naturally assertive. At the end of Remake she even kind of takes the lead by steering the decision-making, like a FF-Gandalf. She also showed that she will protect others over herself when placed in dangerous situations, given how she saved Marlene by offering herself to Shinra. I think her death will be an act of self-sacrifice in the face of limited options.
Besides, killing her off at an other moment, hinting that she might be surviving would create a fresh trauma to be experienced in this one as well. Why hit your audience once with the same death twice, if you can make it fresh by hitting them twice with hope, followed by a different crushing death. It would be nice if the story shows that Zack isn't able to save her either, when he is around. It wouldn't wonder me when they keep Zack around for just that reason and kill him off in the process as well, making their mutual death having double impact, but less lonely in the process. Thing is I don't think they will let the experienced players of scoff free. The stakes being high and killing off characters was a key piece in the writing of the original and I don’t doubt they will do it here. So, those are my predictions.
Sephiroth wants to control Cloud. Without Cloud, he can't exist anymore. Cloud's memories of Sephiroth keep Sephiroth in existence now. It's one reason why in the climax, Cloud goes inside his own mind to fight Sephiroth from taking him over, in Sephiroth's last attempt to keep going: Taking over Cloud/becoming one being. Cloud wins, Sephiroth dissolves into the lifestream (until Advent Children, still remaining connected in Cloud's subconscious, using that to return in his three new forms).
One constant of FFVII, is that Sephiroth now needs Cloud as his pawn to ensure Sephiroth's soul remains intact. Both Aerith and Tifa, work to heal his mind, to help fight Sephiroth off/Cloud realize who Cloud really is, making him more stable/stronger-minded against Sephiroth.
Whether it's going back in time or they're all reliving their past via Lifesteam Memories, so many theories out there, I think one core crux is that Sephiroth will attempt to isolate Cloud from his friends, especially Tifa/Aerith, so he can break him to his will, make Cloud doubt himself, making Cloud join into Sephiroth's mind, ensuring Sephiroth will continue to live on, maybe possessing Cloud's body/mind (if Sephiroth is just a soul in broken fragments in the Lifestream now).
I feel like Cedric Diggory’s Dad at the end of Goblet of Fire. What did they do to my boy?
Great essay. I appreciate your indepth look into this. I am not a fan of this remake, nor the thinking behind making it what it is. I sold my copy of the game and will wait until all parts are out to make my final judgement. But the way Square is handling this ruins the story and characters in an irredeemable way imho. Here’s hoping we get a good looking polished version of the original in the near future. Modders will probably make it happen.
Man why did you make this video?? I was just starting to settle down into manageable levels of hype and now I'm freaking out and need Rebirth yesterday.
But seriously, great video.
Well, hopefully we’re only a couple months away from a PS5 Showcase where I’m certain an FF7 Rebirth trailer will be shown.
This video is wonderful and I'd love more FF7 Content if you want to talk about your own theories of where twists and turns could go. This is the first video I've ever seen of yours so please disregard my suggestion if you've been doing that.
I did do one about what they could do with Zack. it's the most recent video before this one. I'm not super sure about the exact predictions in it anymore, but some food for thought.
They could have just said "FF7 Remake is a sequel" and be done with it. They wanted to surprise the players, but at the expense of the fans who were expecting a loyal remake and the new players' confusion as to what the hell is going on.
They were too obsessed with making the experience new instead of giving the players what they wanted. A fresh retelling. Their excuses only confirm that that they didn't belong on the project for not understanding this and putting up with their personal opinions about genuine remakes.
What a great listen, subbed.
In my original playthrough, I didn’t know shit about Zack, he showed up in that Lifestream flashback and I was like “who dis”. I do think it was essential that Zack got a little bit more spotlight, the way the remake structures itself is that is doesn’t leave optional content as optional anymore, Yuffie and Vincent being hidden characters is never going to happen, they are essential to two major plotpoints, Sephiroth conception and a tie in to Wutai respectively. So yeah I am looking forward to be surprised (alsoiamprayingbeggingforadirgeofcefberusremakethatshitismytrash)
Awesome video. Well thought out and presented. Shout out to NSP for the suggestion, this certainly didn't disappoint.
Glad you checked it out and liked it so much
I don't understand why SE would tell people(new people to the franchise/game) to play Crisis core - in the middle of remaking the title that CC spoils.
that would be like starting to watch the sixth sense movie and 15 minutes in spoil the reveal/plot twist that makes that movie.
ESPECIALLY if you consider that the first part only stops where it does because it's the best part to segment - having the flashback start the second game and resolve IN the second game at the crater where Cloud is lost - effectively resolving the false flashback, putting us at the worst possible outcome and our characters at their lowest becoming an ultimate cliffhanger.
YET they market CC reunion and release it as part of the FF7 franchise between the first and second game, WHY??? it sounds like a marketing decision.
AGAIN I have to iterate HOW dumb it is to spoil Nibelheim - it would be as if when a trilogy has a pivotal character die in the third movie but a commercial shows a funeral stone of that character - BEFORE THE 2ND MOVIE IS RELEASED....
Your questions here are why I made this video. Definitely give the video a watch if you want a POV on why the hell SE decided to do that because it's really at the core of this video. I was screaming to myself, "WHY SPOIL THIS NOW!?" ... and then figured out everything I included in this vid.
I agree,makes no sense.new comers shouldn't know who zack is.evening seeing him so early makes no sense.seeing sephiroth 1 hour in made no sense.there is no plot narrative for it.they just wanted to to show off thier biggest character.we just fought fate,how do we fight a gian snake now?killed barret but bring him back,its so dumb lol.the simp train is here,for early access
Great video. I appreciate that there's a video that i can point people too when I tell them that ff7 remake had to change things about the story. My arguments been that it would be super boring for the devs to remake the game paint by numbers style to follow the og religiously and it would also be super boring to play. Also the evangelion rebuild movies is the exact thing i compare remake too lol. I can't get any of my friends too watch it though!
Greetings, Cae Lumis, Chief Director of the Shinra Archaeology Department translation group here.
First of all, let me just say I tip my hat to you, *damn well done*. What you managed to say in 30 minutes was more eloquently put and spoken than I've tried to say in various communities for FFVII that I try to reach out when explaining FFVII Remake and the changes it is attempting to pull off. All the various details of the story may change, but its narrative beating heart will remain the same. You had me grinning and applauding from start to end.
I won't belabor this comment section with my own theories on how Remake will *execute* these changes while maintaining the heart of VIIR alive, but I do honestly believe because of Nojima, Kitase, & Nomura's past work and their love of character writing and the bonds between the characters that while VIIR might not stray into the same *level* of insanity of the Rebuild Quadrilogy (I'm an Evangelion Fan as well), the same idea where Rebuild ends brighter than where the OG Evangelion ended *is* where I think VIIR will end, and that those crazy trio will pull it off.
Yeah, I think myself and others are a bit afraid of a lighter, more conclusive ending because we associate FF7 with this idea of being a hard-fought victory that comes with losses. If it feels significantly easier on the characters, it can feel a bit like pandering to fans. And to be fair, I felt "that's a bit cheap" when seeing how many people survived the Sector 7 plate fall. I just hope they don't pull punches, is all. The end of FF7 is bittersweet, and I still want a bit of bitterness in the end of Remake.
@@SubTXT_ The principle I like to follow when trying to describe why a lighter ending would work for the Remake Trilogy is by using referencing animator Don Bluth's Philosophy of storytelling in that you can make the middle portion of a story as dark as you like, so long as its *resolution* ends on a happy note. So, the way I imagine it is that the journey *to* that lighter ending will be *harder* on our heroes, but the pay-off will be that they've *earned* that happier ending, to explain it roughly anyway.
@@caelumis3630 that’s a really good way of looking at it
@@SubTXT_ If I may jump in here; I feel that they are setting us up to believe that there might be a lighter end ahead of us. I think the end will have more of a definitive end than OG FF7 had, but I think they will set us up with all of these good feelings and unreliability of story/world so we are thinking things like "maybe a certain character won't die" only to literally rip that away from us in the worst way possible.
Saying "that's a bit cheap" as to the plate falling....the only people that got out were the people in the direct path of the members of the Watch and the area around Seventh Heaven. Slums are called slums because they are sprawling and large...only a small fraction of the actual people who live in the slums would have gotten out in time. And then you have to remember, the UPPER plate wasn't warned at all. All of those people are even more likely to die than the ones on the ground in Sector 7 because of the height difference between the upper plate and the ground floor, as it were. Calling all those deaths cheap is a bit...
Hey SubTXT i know i'm a bit late on this but i finally had a chance to catch up on my YT watch list and this video was incredible to watch and i learned a lot of things like what's actually happening in Remake & Rebirth and what's the difference between a story and plot which you explained it so well to understand! I also enjoyed you explaining what the actual story premise is for FFVII and all the developers comments and interviews, also the comparison between Jurassic Park and Evangelion as example! I also liked the comedic surprise moments you added in! Keep up the great content and hope to catch up on your other content.
-Frank from Twitter/X
Thanks a lot. I hope to have one more video done before Rebirth drops if my work schedule lets me finish the edit, so stay tuned
@@SubTXT_ You're welcome bro and i'll be sure to stay tuned! Hopefully you have that time needed to work on the video and also play Rebirth when it releases!
IMO - More than a game of Life, or Death. Seemingly key themes or what have you. The biggest stand out really is simply the 'Identity Crisis'.
FF7 is identity crisis the Video Game.
And think about it, not just Cloud. Everyone develops and discovers themselves, in good and bad ways. The consequences this results in, and how this affects the world around them, is what FF7 is all about.
Really great video man. As a 39yo m that grew up with the game, played it with my childhood sweetheart 2 hours away, via landline phone calls of 8+ hours at a time, it was an incredible time for me. We got engaged and she died of a pulmonary embolism at the dinner table 10 years ago. But the memories of my first time playing it will never leave me and all the times since.
Your video actually made me wanna go back and replay it since it’s been a solid 10 years. Anyway. Great video. You got a subscriber.
And yo all my FF7 fans out there 🤘🏻😎🤘🏻
Thanks for the kind words and so sorry about your loss. That is also an incredible story for your first playthrough.
While it’s not exactly the same, my uncle is the one who introduced me to FF7 when it came out. We beat it individually, but eventually did a playthrough together and talked about it. Because he was born way later than expected, he was surprisingly close in age to me and more of an older brother than an uncle. He passed away a little over 10 years ago as well.
We had both wanted a Remake for so long and he didn’t even make it long enough to see it revealed in 2015. So 2020 was very special for me. I just wish he had been able to see it. But finding the broader community and connecting with people like you has felt like an ability to share that love for FF7, in some ways, like I had shared it with him.
I can't wait to see your videos once pt two is released!
The possibility for the reason they chose to kill the Cloud's memory mystery that trips me the most is that it completely shifts the player's perspective away from Cloud like in OG and firmly makes us Tifa in the Remake project. Yeah another example of the Remake project deliberately being Meta/self aware more than just superficially.
Our perspective of the plot for OG and Compilation players just happened to be just as knowledgeable of what really happened in Nibelheim like Tifa but new players were left in Cloud's perspective. A schism. One that a typical franchise wouldn't capitalize on and incorporate into their story much less consider it worth paying attention to. But not the remake project it seems.
Just like it appears Sephiroth is slowly alienating Cloud from the reality around him by creating a wedge between his connections to others, specifically Tifa, the developers drop Reunion on the fans and officially gives new players the same truth the pre-Remake players already knew. Now everyone is Tifa, not just in knowing the truth, but also actively continuing the false reality "playing" along with Cloud.
With the truth of Nibelheim canonically revealed already now all players have been cut off from OG Cloud no matter whether we played OG or not just like Tifa. That's some S tier level commitment to the meta storytelling bit.
But again like answering any speculative answer with some earnest speculation it leads to more questions. Why change the player's perspective from what it was in the OG as Cloud even for new players to the Remake project? And why makes us Tifa?
One possibility is to celebrate the importance of Cloud so that he may believe us when we forgive him for his failings which by the time of Remake that ultimate failing is never fully defeating Sephiroth (also explaining the choice to make Sephiroth so explicitly dominating in marketing and the Remake project). But how so?
Well when Tifa gets cut off fully from Cloud at the end of the Northern Crater Awakening scene so will we as a player and if we've been experiencing Remake project from a perspective similar to hers what goes down with him will hit harder than OG. But it won't just cause that scene to go harder it'll also affect another scene. A scene arguably just as important, and actually more for many, that the Forgotten Capital scene: The Lifestream scene.
In the OG when Tifa helps Cloud remember himself within the Lifestream that was the end of the Nibelheim Incident Mystery arc. That was the end of Cloud's OG arc. He was saved. And everything after that in OG was his victory lap that happened to include being able to save the Planet. And one of the biggest human interactions that the Lifestream included that gave Cloud the strength to live. To be able to accept his memories, his reality. That interaction was Tifa forgiving Cloud for hiding from her. For being dishonest to her. And it's my guess that the Remake project wants us to more actively participate in that scene than was possible in OG. We will have to actively show Cloud his faults, his humanity, made us stronger. Cloud will accept some form of artistic representation that the OG already happened and he's Relieving memories. Possibly by going explicitly meta with the sequence?
I think similar to OG Cloud and the Nibelheim Incident, Remake Cloud is repressing the events of the OG. And just like OG Cloud was tripped out seeing Sephiroth's sword because he "knows" he killed Sephiroth, Remake Cloud is similarly disturbed by the visions of the OG because unconsciously he knows he defeated Sephiroth.
And the one person that was vital to completing OG Cloud's arc was Tifa and now we are Tifa, the truth of OG will make us the one "person" to truly bring back Cloud from whatever void he ends up in at the end of Rebirth. Instead of experiencing OG Tifa helping OG Cloud piece his identity together I think we will actively need to Recreate the being (body, mind, spirit, soul) of Remake Cloud out of the memories we've shared with him over the decades. A celebration of all that is Cloud and ultimately all that is Final Fantasy 7. And it will be this love from the player (directed by the developers of course) through Remake Tifa the strength to Rebuild Cloud from more than likely having been obliterated or imprisoned in Sephiroth's Lifestream (Rebirth has to go harder lol). I mean if they make the Remake Lifestream scene a full on psychedelic heist through (Sephiroth's) Lifestream where you basically go through a roller coaster ride through the memories of FF7 does sound a bit wild.
But hey why else would they force us to be in Tifa's perspective and no longer in Cloud's?
Again, more fascinating thoughts. Even just at a macro-sense, feeling like we're in the shoes of Tifa from OG is a fascinating thought.
@@SubTXT_ Also, I just realized that if "we" the player have been re-positioned to Tifa's perspective from OG Cloud's then that would also explain another meta aspect of the Remake project that adds to your idea that the world is the new unreliable Cloud. I think you can take it further to help understand even more of this still mysterious direction the developers are taking with the OG plot.
If we're Tifa then that would necessarily make the Remake project on the whole, not just the world within the story, to be Cloud. Not just his perspective either but the experience of being Cloud himself (yeah I know it sounds weird). I think they're attempting this by creating a similar relationship between the player and the Remake story that OG Tifa and OG Cloud experienced by incorporating players' memories of playing the OG into he gameplay. Further immersion opportunity, babyyyyy.
This whole three worlds, three SOLDIER's perspectives talk that's being described and marketed for Rebirth at the gameplay level sounds way too eerily similar to the identity crisis OG Cloud went through in OG that just happens to really be brought into focus after leaving Midgar which is where Rebirth also begins. And wouldn't you also know, a similar change occurs with the singular perspective of Remake splintering into three different perspectives in Rebirth. Three perspectives that just happen to mimic the main identity crisis actors within OG Cloud's mind. It's as if the psychological drama of OG Cloud is being made a literal gameplay mechanic in the Remake project. This level of interactive self awareness could never have been done in OG and gives a reason for the Remake project to exist, no, to live on its own.
This sort of gameplay and story synergy/rhyming to fully achieve a journey of enlightenment and self awareness simply could not exist for OG. While gameplay is inherently a bit of a self aware experience due to its interactivity the OG story couldn't be properly self aware to synergize with gameplay due to being the initial experience. And I think this was seen as a good area of focus when the opportunity for the Remake project came around. Sort of like, "What can the Remake do to not just enhance the experience of FF7, but portray an aspect of the FF7 story that the OG wasn't even narratively capable of letting the players experience?" Use the meta, the self awareness, of OG to better become Cloud.
Oddly, it would seem that OG Cloud's journey is dictating the gameplay direction of the Remake project. What was once purely psychologically inferred from OG Cloud has been made manifest in game form. OG Cloud's identity crisis becomes more apparent post Midgar in OG? Well then Rebirth will likely increasingly split the gameplay of Rebirth away from Cloud and between Zack and Sephiroth. OG Cloud's mind breaks after Aerith's death? Well then Rebirth will likely obliterate Cloud from existence and leveling destruction across The Planet. This would also allow the developers the opportunity to change and expand the world map however they see fit as to not leave Part 3 at a marketing disadvantage.
If you made it this far though the even weirder thing about this whole fever dream thought process leads to asking what's the lore motivation for all this weird ass meta fuckery. How do the developers even ground being meta without breaking the immersion? I think that's where the process of dying and becoming one with the Lifestream comes in. Perhaps the best logical end to this journey and the echo of the Nibelheim revelation is that Cloud's dead. Has been dead for an unimportant amount of time and we are experiencing the process of death and the drama that is finding closure in your last moments of individuality.
Because who better than Cloud in the story of FF7, a story about coping with death, to hammer the reality and drama of dying on the most epic saving the Planet scale? That story within FF7 is ultimately Cloud's alone. That story is the OG story. It's not Zack's story who I think will once again come to realize this and make a sacrifice for Cloud's Return in part 3. And, as much as he wills it to be his throughout the Remake project and it's marketing, it is not Sephiroth's story. We, like Cloud, I feel will become Re-enlightened to this truth at the climax of Part 3 but I think Sephiroth will fight it to the bitter end leaving his acceptance of this truth to be known only to the Cloud and the player at part 3's "edge of annihilation" scene.
Lastly, what sort of experience does all this ultimately serve? All the changes? All the self awareness? All the immersion? What's the endgame of the developers beyond Sephiroth's? I think it's to say goodbye in a way. The thing that a story about coping with death ultimately has to teach its audience. FF7 was a big deal to a lot of humans that have crossed its path. It solidified SE in the Western zeitgeist, crossing cultures, it elevated those creatives that worked on it into popularity, it changed the lives of its audience. It lived. And in living it stayed with all. But if the franchise of FF7 was ever going to creatively honor the story about death that conceived it an end was inevitable. Closure had to occur. And the best way that the Remake project seems to be preaching is to not wallow in the misery of mortality but to celebrate the adventure of the life that was lived and understanding no one truly dies when there memories live on in others. That's how closure is created. At least according to Aerith I'm guessing. Nya.
Amazing video! I really loved how in depth you went about the synopsis.
I think the mixed marketing of the game is a double edged sword because they call it Remake but it's very much a sequel. Like they are telling it and structuring it in a way that only makes sense if you already played FF7 and at least know what happened generally in Crisis Core and Dirge of Cerberus. The friends I know that played Remake but not the OG were very confused.
What an absolutely amazing video. Had to click off early to avoid Eva Rebuild spoilers though. I have not had the time to watch it yet, but in essence I feel like from what I've heard it is probably the project most comparable to what FF7R is trying to achieve (If a direct comparison were to be made anyways).
If it makes you feel better, I strained hard to not include any specific spoilers about the Rebuilds. I didn't even include any footage from the movies. But I get clicking away. It's so fucking good. You gotta watch them. It's DIFFERENT for sure, but man... there is a pretty insane level of artistry in Evangelion (kinda of a high bar for FF7, to be honest)
Excellent video. This is why I trust the devs. We, as fans, understandably (but wrongly) think that if we get the exact same thing one for one remake, it will give us the EXACT same feelings we got playing the OG for the first time. Sure, we’ll get a nostalgia kick but that’s a fleeting feeling. Nothing more. Their goal is to recreate those feelings we had, not artificially by copy/pasting the original, but authentically by focusing on HOW FF7 told its story. Not just WHAT the story was.
Edit: typo
It's definitely a big risk. I do think they've replicated that feeling of being in the Whirlwind Maze where Sephiroth shows us the picture of Zack and replays events with Zack in Cloud'd place. That mindf*** had one of the best payoffs in gaming. Hope they can do it again. It's a tall order.
@@SubTXT_ I agree. Def tall order. I’m assuming that they have it figured out since they’re so confident in spoiling the original twists. Reallyyyyyy hope so lol
@@emptymelodies3316 They most definitely have it figured out. But... will it be good? Your guess is as good as mine.
There's a few things on the eva=FFVII comparison to add. The fact that, in the end, eva basically shows there are several timelines going on, or several alternate realities, is a good parallel to what everyone thinks on FFVII RE, and while I understand that the meteor=impacts on eva is sort of a hyperbole, well, it's way too much of a hyperbole! In Eva, impacts basically affect life on the planet, and allow it to sort ot be reborn, while meteor... well... it's supposed to destroy the planet to have the planet itself rebuild, not so much the life in it, or the people, more accurately
Yeah. If I remember/interpreted it correctly, it wasn’t necessarily timelines as they are traditionally defined, but rather time loops. I could definitely see that being part of what’s going on with FF7R - especially as previous FF games have gone into time loops. I just didn’t want to spoil Eva for anyone watching this who was like me last year that hadn’t seen it yet.