I've been asked a number of times how I recycle my petrobond. Recen tly I had a guy ask me to make a video of my process. It's really simple, effective, and has saved me a lot of money
Cheers Perry this’ll come in super handy as I just received 20 kilos of petrobond yesterday and I wanna make it last for as long as possible 😁👍🏻😆🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻.
bigstackD Casting I also just ordered 10 kg that should turn up on Monday and it cost me 125 bucks including postage. Bloody expensive and I was just wondering how much your 20kg of sand cost?
Thank You, Sir, you are my online teacher I have an aluminum foundry in Mexico and I'm thinking of moving from green sand to petrobond. I watch your videos with all my attention. Saludos from Mexico.
De nada y me siento honrado cabarello ;-) I am actually thinking of trying green sand. Of course I think the effort to get it right might be difficult.
Great Perry! Just what I was looking for! I am making my own tongs soon. My next project is making a cope and buy petrobond to start sand casting! Videos of that will follow soon 👍 Have a great day!
Great bench drill attachment Perry great idea, I really need to make some sort of rejuvenator thingy one day. Passing through sieves and hand mixing is painful!
Yeah, I really wish I had something that I could just dump all of my sand into and mix it all at once without me having to stand there and ruin my drill press. But if I keep the loads small, it doesn't seem to bother the drill press.
I hope it helps you. It extended the life of my petrobond quite a bit. You're probably not interested in this series I did some time later czcams.com/play/PLU1QP34Dv8Y52JyfBBJyJAUysJDs23NER.html 😄😄 Thanks for the sub
Great job.. I wondered about the black sand. I would see you use some new around the casting then fill in the rest with the old. But I did not know you needed to rework the old sand. See, I'm still learning. :)
swdweeb You are??? I have been trying to find time to finish my crucible tongs but it’s been so tough!!! So I can cast those coins you made for me in bronze!! I feel so worthless not having posted a video in 5 months.. But I promise to get back to it shortly!
I use a cement mixer from harbor freight without the fins in. I threw an old bowling ball in to help mull it. I also use 30wnd. I found that adding a cap full of propylene carbonate really brings it back to life. It is the binding agent. Thanks for all your videos. I have learned so much from you about casting. I just cast my version of the bell yesterday. I used silicon bronze.
How did the bell turn out? I'd love to see it. If you have pics, can you send me one at swdweeb@gmail.com? I'll have to look into the propylene carbonate I thought about using a mixer but it's just one more thing that I don;t have space for and I really hate to leave it outside. have you seen @tobho moot muller than he made with a cement mixer?
swdweeb no prob 👍🏻 yeah it’s almost exactly the same. The only difference is I use a cheap handheld blender. However now I’m thinking I should use the drill press instead 🤔
That's how we did it making Cat rear end housings at Harrison Steel Casting back in 1973 when I worked there. New stuff on the pattern then fill it up with used from shake out.
Well, I had to find a way. I watched a guy build one once. Seemed like an awful lot of work :-D The nice thing a muller would do is I feel like I could dump all of the sand in, set it and forget it. That way I'd end up with a consistent mix (all of it would be mixed to the same consistency) every time. But as I just told another guy, its a matter of making the space for yet another thing that I don't have room for. I have a buddy that gave me a large electric motor with a reduction gear box on it. I thought making a muller would be a good thing to use it on. It's only been sitting on the floor for 8-9 months now ;-)
@@swdweeb lol, you're spot on about finding space for a muller! What kind of maniac would think he's got room for that?! Making a giant pile of petrobond sand that stays fluffy and sticky until needed instead of drying out like greensand really is tempting though...
I started out with water based green sand but got tired of the steam popping my castings. Petrobond is definitely worth the money but it's great to know we can keep rejuvinating it. Thanks for a great video! Short and sweet, too!!
Too bad most of my early videos weren't so short and sweet. ;-) I've never had my green sand have any sort of steam or popping issue. I recently went the other direction, from petrobond to green.
@@swdweeb Metalcasters latest video, Summer series part 3, around 4:40 when he pours in the metal shows the green sand water boiling and popping. a good example of what i experienced:)
swdweeb I’m glad you watched it. Mine was probably a little too wet too. I have some dry green sand mix that I never added water too. Maybe I’ll try it again. I sure got spoiled by pet robins though. Too bad it’s so pricey!!
First of all thanks for the explanation and showing. Great video. Thumbs up on that. I got one question: You yourself realised that there is stuff in the sand which doesnt belong there and potentially might harm the casting. Do you sieve the sand to get the "shit" out which isnt sand?
I do sieve it out, at least when when I'm facing the part. Once I have a layer of "clean" sand around the part, I just fill the box with the sand without sieving it.
You can add some bentonite clay, oil, and alcohol to fix sand that is in the shape shown in video, Ive been fixing my sand for about 40 years stioll going well! Cheers
Sw, You mixer sort of looks a lot like the rotating bit of my aerator! I notice that some petrobaond sand produces a yellowish stain/colouring on the fresh casting and some does not - any guess as to why this difference between various people's petrobond?..Martin PS, You need a bigger bench and maybe a heated one too!😏 And I would have thought the cold weather the perfect excuse to light up the fiery furnace and stand close 😀
I wonder if its because I saw your aerator before I made the tool... hmmmm. I have no idea about the stain. If I did, I'd opt to go with the stain-free coating. I've gotten it from day one with fresh pb so it's not the oily mess that I create when I recycle it. I can stand beside the fiery furnace or I can stay inside drinking hot chocolate and studying your old videos, now what would you do? I'll ask again in about 3-4 months ;-)
Olfoundryman's is technically an aerator, it's mostly for fluffing up the sand. I believe he said he wishes he had a muller but just aerating has been minimally sufficient.
Just wait till you get old like me, your definition of cold with change. I used to be able to go out there in shorts and a tee shirt. Now it's just no fun. When my bench top is 19 degrees, that's too cold for me.
Well... I've been recycling this for over a year now. Keep in mind that it's a bit like changing the oil in a car with an oil leak, a little goes on the floor every time I cast something and a little new gets added back in from the facing that I do.
Made, With my green sand I find that long before complete binder burnout or serious grain break down occurs the sand seems to pick up bits of rubbish that causes defects on the casting surface, (brush bristles for example! 😏) Sieving the sand helps as does quickly running it through my grinding mill on a high setting but eventually the sand has to be replaced because of this problem. I guess I would have replaced my sand about every two years but then I did use it a lot... Martin
@@olfoundryman8418 Yeah, it's amazing the stuff I pick out of the sand as i sieve it. I should probable breakdown and get some real sieves to do this work with. I'm surprised Martin hasn't said anything to me about this yet...oh wait, this is Martin ;-D
If you do enough casting or you have need for a cement (mortar) mixer & can keep it clean! Might be worth investing in one. I have a cheap one suspended from the roof of my casting room, you need a type that has the blades bolted in as you don't want these. make your self a heavy ball and some chain, throw it all in with your sand and mull & mix away. I show it in a few of my video's but here is a short clip of it mulling oil bonded sand czcams.com/video/2wiiqxzIR3s/video.html
@@swdweeb I do have a lid. Might be shown in one of my other videos. But to be fair that is more to do with it being directly over my molding bench! My sand is kept in cut down oil drums. Wheels welded on the bottom and the lid fixed back on with a hinge, againg sure this can be seen in one of my video's. They roll under my bench out of the way. At any one time i have about 250kg of oil bonded sand on the go & anout 50kg of green sand (very very rarely use this the green sand). I tend to sling as much easy to remove burnt sand when I can. Try not to fuss over it as it all mulls back in with a dribble of new oil.
I'm just sick of sitting in the house because its to darn cold to go outside. Spring will be here any day now... I hope..and I can get back out there on a more frequent basis. I did have a guy tell me I should cast a wood-burning stove. I thought that was a pretty good idea ;-) I've got to insulate the roof and garage doors before I do anything with heat. The walls are already done.
@@swdweeb Well, there are lots of options when it comes to insulation, good luck sorting through them for one you like. Just don't forget that you still need ventilation. I'd hate to find out that you had asphixiated yourself. There are heat recovery systems out in the marketplace, but from what I've read, the best ones are pretty pricey. Isn't that the way it usually goes?
@@ronyerke9250 Yeah, I'd like to do forced air but havent done anything about it because I don;t know anything about getting fresh air in along with it.
@@swdweeb Maybe some electric hunter's socks and hand warmers in your pockets is the way to go. 🤔 Hmm, a heat mat to stand on sounds like something I should try. Retrofitting in-floor radiant heating is prohibitively expensive.
Just think back to this video... czcams.com/video/iTsfkIeRo6g/video.html :) Have you ever looked into investment casting? I see vegoilguy doing it a lot and I'm curious how hard it is to get set up for it and how expensive it is.
I'm looking at doing a small wax investment for a bell that I'm working on (Working on as in thinking about.) I'm not really too into the idea of investment. A) I'm not artistic enough, B) it seems like a lot of work to set up, C) it seems like a lot of work to clean out. @insidethemindofmatt has done some cool stuff. Check out his rose if you haven't already seen it. He's trying to do Campbell's bottom up techniques using investment. He builds the tapered sprue, pouring basin all of it. He's got a way's to go but he's headed in the right direction.
Cheers Perry this’ll come in super handy as I just received 20 kilos of petrobond yesterday and I wanna make it last for as long as possible 😁👍🏻😆🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻.
Wow 20 kg is great! Im gonna buy some too soon as I am going to make something special for my grandma in remembrance of her deceased husband.
God deal mate. Looking forward to see how you end up using it. (What you make with it)
Someone just made a big 20kg improvement to their casting process... it will be Interesting to see how much better your casts will be.
bigstackD Casting I also just ordered 10 kg that should turn up on Monday and it cost me 125 bucks including postage. Bloody expensive and I was just wondering how much your 20kg of sand cost?
I hope bigstack will use a tapered sprue + basin from now on too. :)
Thank You, Sir, you are my online teacher I have an aluminum foundry in Mexico and I'm thinking of moving from green sand to petrobond. I watch your videos with all my attention. Saludos from Mexico.
De nada y me siento honrado cabarello ;-) I am actually thinking of trying green sand. Of course I think the effort to get it right might be difficult.
Great Perry! Just what I was looking for! I am making my own tongs soon. My next project is making a cope and buy petrobond to start sand casting! Videos of that will follow soon 👍 Have a great day!
Hey, seems like I've heard that phrase before somewhere ;-)
Most cool, looking forward to seeing you start to cast
Thank you very much! I always enjoy your videos, they are very informative.
Thanks Peter, I appreciate that
Very informative video for those who want to use oil bonded sand.
thanks
Good to know experience. Thanks for posting.
My pleasure
Great bench drill attachment Perry great idea, I really need to make some sort of rejuvenator thingy one day. Passing through sieves and hand mixing is painful!
Yeah, I really wish I had something that I could just dump all of my sand into and mix it all at once without me having to stand there and ruin my drill press. But if I keep the loads small, it doesn't seem to bother the drill press.
Thank you for the tip. I will give it a try on some old leftover petrobond... Subbed and Liked... Be well...
I hope it helps you. It extended the life of my petrobond quite a bit. You're probably not interested in this series I did some time later czcams.com/play/PLU1QP34Dv8Y52JyfBBJyJAUysJDs23NER.html 😄😄
Thanks for the sub
sweet been waiting for this video I should bring mine inside! Maybe tomorrow its cold here too! Thanks for sharing!
Thanx for the play-byplay of recycling petrobond!
Yer a great fella Perry! :D
Hey cap’n good to hear from you. It’s been a while. I suppose I’m to blame for not posting very often anymore
Great job.. I wondered about the black sand. I would see you use some new around the casting then fill in the rest with the old. But I did not know you needed to rework the old sand. See, I'm still learning. :)
Arent we all brother, arent we all ;-)
hey awesome! you made a video about it 👍 this will sure come in handy 👍
Glad you liked it. ;-)
I know I asked you about this forever ago!!! Thank you for making this!
Speaking of making, I'm still actively working on something for you...
swdweeb You are??? I have been trying to find time to finish my crucible tongs but it’s been so tough!!! So I can cast those coins you made for me in bronze!! I feel so worthless not having posted a video in 5 months.. But I promise to get back to it shortly!
@@jrsemporium5579 I am, but don't worry, it's not an altruistic thing, I'm expecting something for it in return ;-D
swdweeb it would be my pleasure to have the opportunity to assist you / help out in any way that I can!
I use a cement mixer from harbor freight without the fins in. I threw an old bowling ball in to help mull it. I also use 30wnd. I found that adding a cap full of propylene carbonate really brings it back to life. It is the binding agent.
Thanks for all your videos. I have learned so much from you about casting. I just cast my version of the bell yesterday. I used silicon bronze.
How did the bell turn out? I'd love to see it. If you have pics, can you send me one at swdweeb@gmail.com?
I'll have to look into the propylene carbonate
I thought about using a mixer but it's just one more thing that I don;t have space for and I really hate to leave it outside. have you seen @tobho moot muller than he made with a cement mixer?
Did you use a new bowling ball without holes, or an old discarded one?
Ron Yerke an old ball.
swdweeb I have not seen that one.
???
Thank you so much for this useful information. It really helps.
You're more than welcome. Thank you
Nice Perry! I’ve had a lot of people asking me how I do it too. I’ll be directing them to your video from now on 👍🏻
Well direct a lot of 'em here, I need the views :-D Thanks bud. I assume your process is similar.
swdweeb no prob 👍🏻 yeah it’s almost exactly the same. The only difference is I use a cheap handheld blender. However now I’m thinking I should use the drill press instead 🤔
Got something fun planned for this month's challenge?
That's how we did it making Cat rear end housings at Harrison Steel Casting back in 1973 when I worked there. New stuff on the pattern then fill it up with used from shake out.
And here I thought I had an original idea ;-D Good to know I'm in good company.
Good video Perry. I have some petrobond that I’m wanting to test out.
I'd tell you to do it, but I know you won't listen. ;-) Some day we'll be retired and have the time to do this sort of stuff whenever we want
Thanks for dispelling the old but persistent rumour that a sand muller is needed to refresh burnt petrobond sand!
Well, I had to find a way. I watched a guy build one once. Seemed like an awful lot of work :-D The nice thing a muller would do is I feel like I could dump all of the sand in, set it and forget it. That way I'd end up with a consistent mix (all of it would be mixed to the same consistency) every time.
But as I just told another guy, its a matter of making the space for yet another thing that I don't have room for. I have a buddy that gave me a large electric motor with a reduction gear box on it. I thought making a muller would be a good thing to use it on. It's only been sitting on the floor for 8-9 months now ;-)
@@swdweeb lol, you're spot on about finding space for a muller! What kind of maniac would think he's got room for that?!
Making a giant pile of petrobond sand that stays fluffy and sticky until needed instead of drying out like greensand really is tempting though...
I started out with water based green sand but got tired of the steam popping my castings. Petrobond is definitely worth the money but it's great to know we can keep rejuvinating it. Thanks for a great video! Short and sweet, too!!
Too bad most of my early videos weren't so short and sweet. ;-)
I've never had my green sand have any sort of steam or popping issue. I recently went the other direction, from petrobond to green.
@@swdweeb Metalcasters latest video, Summer series part 3, around 4:40 when he pours in the metal shows the green sand water boiling and popping. a good example of what i experienced:)
@@bobh8193 Just watched his video, his sand was way too wet. I use 10% or less of the amount of water he used.
swdweeb I’m glad you watched it. Mine was probably a little too wet too. I have some dry green sand mix that I never added water too. Maybe I’ll try it again. I sure got spoiled by pet robins though. Too bad it’s so pricey!!
Petrobond, not pet robins. Stupid spellcheck!!
Always a good time in Perry’s Shop! Used PetraBond 101.
I wish I felt that way :-D
First of all thanks for the explanation and showing. Great video. Thumbs up on that. I got one question: You yourself realised that there is stuff in the sand which doesnt belong there and potentially might harm the casting. Do you sieve the sand to get the "shit" out which isnt sand?
I do sieve it out, at least when when I'm facing the part. Once I have a layer of "clean" sand around the part, I just fill the box with the sand without sieving it.
You can add some bentonite clay, oil, and alcohol to fix sand that is in the shape shown in video, Ive been fixing my sand for about 40 years stioll going well! Cheers
I never tried adding clay. I've gotten rid of all of my petrobond so I guess I'll have to take your word for it. I do actually believe you though. 😄
I guess a big mixer (the one you use to mix mortar) should do the job too?
Probably, would work fine. I'd just have to find a place to store it.
This old dog learned a new trick! (It's my birthday today!!) 😎😎
I missed your birthday, Happy belated birthday!
Great tip, how much did you buy to get started?
I think I started with 30lbs. Been so long now I can't remember for certain, but that should be pretty close.
Sw, You mixer sort of looks a lot like the rotating bit of my aerator! I notice that some petrobaond sand produces a yellowish stain/colouring on the fresh casting and some does not - any guess as to why this difference between various people's petrobond?..Martin
PS, You need a bigger bench and maybe a heated one too!😏 And I would have thought the cold weather the perfect excuse to light up the fiery furnace and stand close 😀
I wonder if its because I saw your aerator before I made the tool... hmmmm.
I have no idea about the stain. If I did, I'd opt to go with the stain-free coating. I've gotten it from day one with fresh pb so it's not the oily mess that I create when I recycle it.
I can stand beside the fiery furnace or I can stay inside drinking hot chocolate and studying your old videos, now what would you do? I'll ask again in about 3-4 months ;-)
@Martin Im very sad to admit it... but he got you! :D
Han, Got me? Never! 😊… Martin
@@swdweeb, Hot Chocolate! That will be the day. Rum and cloves more like it.
@Martin. btw. did my email reach you? :O
Have you ever seen "Olfoundryman's" set up? It's like yours but more industrialized, but then again it's a business for him.
Yeah, I saw Martin's set up a while ago. You're right same basic concept, his is clearly more rugged than mine.
Olfoundryman's is technically an aerator, it's mostly for fluffing up the sand. I believe he said he wishes he had a muller but just aerating has been minimally sufficient.
Can you rejuvenate and reuse your green sand?
Yes, I have been doing it since I started using it two years ago. All it takes it adding a little bentonite clay to it occasionally.
@@swdweeb that's good to know I bought some of your sand and it does work really well
@@memyselfandnooneels1 Good to hear. 😁 When you're ready for some bentonite, just let me know
Bro. It hasn't been that cold.
Just wait till you get old like me, your definition of cold with change. I used to be able to go out there in shorts and a tee shirt. Now it's just no fun. When my bench top is 19 degrees, that's too cold for me.
Is petrobond infinitely renewable (I mean, within reason) ?
Well... I've been recycling this for over a year now. Keep in mind that it's a bit like changing the oil in a car with an oil leak, a little goes on the floor every time I cast something and a little new gets added back in from the facing that I do.
There comes a point where the sand has broken down too much from thermal stresses. But that takes many years even in a big production facility.
Made, With my green sand I find that long before complete binder burnout or serious grain break down occurs the sand seems to pick up bits of rubbish that causes defects on the casting surface, (brush bristles for example! 😏) Sieving the sand helps as does quickly running it through my grinding mill on a high setting but eventually the sand has to be replaced because of this problem. I guess I would have replaced my sand about every two years but then I did use it a lot... Martin
@@olfoundryman8418 Yeah, it's amazing the stuff I pick out of the sand as i sieve it. I should probable breakdown and get some real sieves to do this work with. I'm surprised Martin hasn't said anything to me about this yet...oh wait, this is Martin ;-D
@@swdweeb you DO realize he IS watching you....don't you!! Haha
If you do enough casting or you have need for a cement (mortar) mixer & can keep it clean! Might be worth investing in one.
I have a cheap one suspended from the roof of my casting room, you need a type that has the blades bolted in as you don't want these.
make your self a heavy ball and some chain, throw it all in with your sand and mull & mix away.
I show it in a few of my video's but here is a short clip of it mulling oil bonded sand
czcams.com/video/2wiiqxzIR3s/video.html
Nice. I've heard that I should cover the opening when mixing this stuff up for the first time (before the oil is added) is that what you do?
@@swdweeb I do have a lid. Might be shown in one of my other videos. But to be fair that is more to do with it being directly over my molding bench!
My sand is kept in cut down oil drums. Wheels welded on the bottom and the lid fixed back on with a hinge, againg sure this can be seen in one of my video's.
They roll under my bench out of the way.
At any one time i have about 250kg of oil bonded sand on the go & anout 50kg of green sand (very very rarely use this the green sand).
I tend to sling as much easy to remove burnt sand when I can. Try not to fuss over it as it all mulls back in with a dribble of new oil.
Well the good news is it's not your hair in the petrobond! Lol!
So what you're saying is, you're shopping around for a way to heat your workshop. 🙄
I'm just sick of sitting in the house because its to darn cold to go outside. Spring will be here any day now... I hope..and I can get back out there on a more frequent basis.
I did have a guy tell me I should cast a wood-burning stove. I thought that was a pretty good idea ;-) I've got to insulate the roof and garage doors before I do anything with heat. The walls are already done.
@@swdweeb Well, there are lots of options when it comes to insulation, good luck sorting through them for one you like. Just don't forget that you still need ventilation. I'd hate to find out that you had asphixiated yourself. There are heat recovery systems out in the marketplace, but from what I've read, the best ones are pretty pricey. Isn't that the way it usually goes?
@@ronyerke9250 Yeah, I'd like to do forced air but havent done anything about it because I don;t know anything about getting fresh air in along with it.
@@swdweeb Maybe some electric hunter's socks and hand warmers in your pockets is the way to go. 🤔 Hmm, a heat mat to stand on sounds like something I should try. Retrofitting in-floor radiant heating is prohibitively expensive.
Just think back to this video... czcams.com/video/iTsfkIeRo6g/video.html :)
Have you ever looked into investment casting? I see vegoilguy doing it a lot and I'm curious how hard it is to get set up for it and how expensive it is.
Quite the memory young man ;-) I forgot I said that. Of course it won't be long until I'm saying it again.
I'm looking at doing a small wax investment for a bell that I'm working on (Working on as in thinking about.) I'm not really too into the idea of investment. A) I'm not artistic enough, B) it seems like a lot of work to set up, C) it seems like a lot of work to clean out. @insidethemindofmatt has done some cool stuff. Check out his rose if you haven't already seen it. He's trying to do Campbell's bottom up techniques using investment. He builds the tapered sprue, pouring basin all of it. He's got a way's to go but he's headed in the right direction.