I've only found your channel recently and its great to see someone challenge the "perceived wisdoms" of running technique with actual data from sound methodology and real world experience. I've often felt at odds with much of the advice offered from other sources but your findings strike a chord with my own experiences in the general sense. I'm a recreational runner who runs mostly trails and i've had the best results moving to low to zero drop shoes and trying to run as relaxed and natural as possible, attempting to "listen" to my body. Your videos are a great resource!
This makes sense. I find myself straightening up (from leaning forward) to slow my pace. Frustratingly sometimes my perceived effort will fall, along with heart rate, but my pace increases.
Just speculating: I'm guessing the increased efficiency/shorter contact time relates to the knee tendon being more efficiently loaded elastically, when landing on a slightly straighter knee, compared to with the greater knee bend resulting from running with a greater forward lean. In order to lengthen the knee tendon, there has to be a lot of force. The quads are A LOT better positioned to resist buckling; hence remain a solid anchor for the knee tendon to stretch and rebound against, when bent a little, versus when bent more. Try static holds at different knee angles with a barbell. With the result being: The knee bend corresponding to a few degrees of forward lean, resulting in more tendon stretch-rebound; while greater bend would tax the quadricep muscle more directly to achieve that same rebound. The achilles gets all the love when it comes to stretch reflex in running, but I bet the knee tendon stretch reflexes are, even if to smaller degree, involved as well.
Great videos, keep them coming. So much misinformation out there on running form you have brought to light. Your one on relaxing chest instead of trying to keep it up and tall was big help on knocking HR down on faster efforts.
I suppose leaning forward depends mainly on running speed. And one can only lean forward to much by bending over instead of leaning forward completely aligned. And the bent torso will work like a spring and eliminate energy so it does not reach the ground.
But maybe there is some "ideal" incline (specific for each runner) where the contact time is the least. But the other thing is that to hunt only for short contact time may not be good strategy, the running gait must be balanced as a whole.
What do people think of recent study in runners world stating that elite runners with longest ground contact time has greater running efficiency? Maybe another metric we shouldn't be worried about?
That is what ive learned also during 3 days session during the Athene Olympic Games (long time ago ) where going o, n but i was in London doing Pose Running with Dr. Romanov ... He will be pleased i guess.
Interesting to hear your comments on cadence vs efficiency. As a long time runner I find that my cadence only goes up when I increase my pace. I have difficulty to run at a higher cadence at say 5m/km.where I am usually at about 167spm.
It is completely natural for your cadence to increase as you increase your pace. This is how it works for most people. Just think about how fast the legs of sprinters move. Cadence can be an important component of running as energy efficiently as possible. But even if a runner has very low cadence, I never say "increase your cadence". Instead, I have them adjust angles here and there, such as a more sharp angle in their elbows and make sure they don't move too far away from their centre of gravity. Hip position also has a big impact on cadence. When they then run as I instructed, they automatically get a higher cadence without even thinking about it. Cadence is the sum of how you move. This is why a certain cadence can feel "natural". It is because of how you move. To then just say "Increase the cadence" means that they have to force something that will not work at all in the long run.
@@SpringSnabbare This was very true for me! Tried to run with a metronome and got stressed and developed runners knee. Changed some minor things in my technique and my cadence went from 168 to 174 at slow paces automatically. I also felt more relaxed and smooth when running! Thanks the great content!
This proves that the saying "you should lean from the ankle and not from the hip" is legit. What's your thoughts about stretching (not that is necessary has anything to with what's written above)?
The software I use categorises energy returns like this: 0-15% poor. 15-25% average. 25-35 good. More than 35% excellent. 50% or more is not possible for us humans.
I think this makes no sense. Of course the runner shouldn't lean it's upper body forward, this is a common error. The whole body should lean forward. Look at the extreme leaning forward of Kipchoge in side view pictures!
So this make no sense? What I say is not my opinion. I have seen exactly this in thousands of runners over the years. Every day I use my 3D cameras to measure runners' body lean with an accuracy of a tenth of a millimetre and their contact time. And every day, I see how a change in lean affects their contact time and energy efficiency. I base my observations on years of precise measurements on all types of runners from beginners to national team members. You base your ideas on what you've seen on CZcams. I also have two rather important objections to your claims. 1. I clearly state in this video that this applies to recreational runners and that other things may apply to elite runners, thus supporting your idea that it may work differently for Eliud Kipchoge. 2. you are completely wrong about Kipchoge's lean. He is in no way "extremely forward leaning". Please watch my video "The leaning does NOT control the pace when running" and skip to 1.22. There you have a perfect picture of Kipchoge from the side. It is by no means an extreme leaning. The exact meaning of "extreme" is of course debatable. But the fact that more than 9 out of 10 of the runners who lean a bit too much forward get a shorter contact time when I adjust their posture is not debatable. These are measurable facts regardless of whether it makes sense to you or not.
I've only found your channel recently and its great to see someone challenge the "perceived wisdoms" of running technique with actual data from sound methodology and real world experience. I've often felt at odds with much of the advice offered from other sources but your findings strike a chord with my own experiences in the general sense. I'm a recreational runner who runs mostly trails and i've had the best results moving to low to zero drop shoes and trying to run as relaxed and natural as possible, attempting to "listen" to my body. Your videos are a great resource!
Thank you for this very inspiring channel. I enjoy that you are challenging the common misconceptions of how to run.
This makes sense. I find myself straightening up (from leaning forward) to slow my pace. Frustratingly sometimes my perceived effort will fall, along with heart rate, but my pace increases.
I don't lean forward a whole lot but I look straight ahead and keep my head a little over my feet. The wall drill helps me a lot.
Just speculating: I'm guessing the increased efficiency/shorter contact time relates to the knee tendon being more efficiently loaded elastically, when landing on a slightly straighter knee, compared to with the greater knee bend resulting from running with a greater forward lean.
In order to lengthen the knee tendon, there has to be a lot of force. The quads are A LOT better positioned to resist buckling; hence remain a solid anchor for the knee tendon to stretch and rebound against, when bent a little, versus when bent more. Try static holds at different knee angles with a barbell. With the result being: The knee bend corresponding to a few degrees of forward lean, resulting in more tendon stretch-rebound; while greater bend would tax the quadricep muscle more directly to achieve that same rebound.
The achilles gets all the love when it comes to stretch reflex in running, but I bet the knee tendon stretch reflexes are, even if to smaller degree, involved as well.
Great videos, keep them coming. So much misinformation out there on running form you have brought to light. Your one on relaxing chest instead of trying to keep it up and tall was big help on knocking HR down on faster efforts.
Impressive data, thank you for sharing.
I suppose leaning forward depends mainly on running speed. And one can only lean forward to much by bending over instead of leaning forward completely aligned.
And the bent torso will work like a spring and eliminate energy so it does not reach the ground.
But maybe there is some "ideal" incline (specific for each runner) where the contact time is the least. But the other thing is that to hunt only for short contact time may not be good strategy, the running gait must be balanced as a whole.
What do people think of recent study in runners world stating that elite runners with longest ground contact time has greater running efficiency? Maybe another metric we shouldn't be worried about?
That is what ive learned also during 3 days session during the Athene Olympic Games (long time ago ) where going o, n but i was in London doing Pose Running with Dr. Romanov ... He will be pleased i guess.
Great stuff. Appreciate you.
Is it that they "lean" too far forward or that they "bend" forward at the waist?
I was wondering the same.
I too wondered about this--the illustration showed someone leaning from the waist.
Wondering the same, I was taught that you should lean from the ankle joint.
@@brutebernard1770 yes lean from tge ankle
You are right. There are nuances which are not properly addressed.
Your videos are fantastic. So much useful information presented incredibly well!
Curious the instruction you provide for runners to move their shoulders?
I’m also interested in this. It would be nice to see videos of real persons, before and after.
Interesting to hear your comments on cadence vs efficiency. As a long time runner I find that my cadence only goes up when I increase my pace. I have difficulty to run at a higher cadence at say 5m/km.where I am usually at about 167spm.
It is completely natural for your cadence to increase as you increase your pace. This is how it works for most people. Just think about how fast the legs of sprinters move. Cadence can be an important component of running as energy efficiently as possible. But even if a runner has very low cadence, I never say "increase your cadence". Instead, I have them adjust angles here and there, such as a more sharp angle in their elbows and make sure they don't move too far away from their centre of gravity. Hip position also has a big impact on cadence. When they then run as I instructed, they automatically get a higher cadence without even thinking about it. Cadence is the sum of how you move. This is why a certain cadence can feel "natural". It is because of how you move. To then just say "Increase the cadence" means that they have to force something that will not work at all in the long run.
@@SpringSnabbare This was very true for me! Tried to run with a metronome and got stressed and developed runners knee. Changed some minor things in my technique and my cadence went from 168 to 174 at slow paces automatically. I also felt more relaxed and smooth when running!
Thanks the great content!
This proves that the saying "you should lean from the ankle and not from the hip" is legit.
What's your thoughts about stretching (not that is necessary has anything to with what's written above)?
How can I get tested? I’m having new onset posterior right knee pain and left sided midfoot pain.
Is a 34% return of energy very good for a normal runner? What about 27%? What can be expected for the above average runners (still non elite)?
The software I use categorises energy returns like this: 0-15% poor. 15-25% average. 25-35 good. More than 35% excellent. 50% or more is not possible for us humans.
@@SpringSnabbare , thank you.
ı run everyday
I think this makes no sense. Of course the runner shouldn't lean it's upper body forward, this is a common error.
The whole body should lean forward. Look at the extreme leaning forward of Kipchoge in side view pictures!
So this make no sense? What I say is not my opinion. I have seen exactly this in thousands of runners over the years. Every day I use my 3D cameras to measure runners' body lean with an accuracy of a tenth of a millimetre and their contact time. And every day, I see how a change in lean affects their contact time and energy efficiency. I base my observations on years of precise measurements on all types of runners from beginners to national team members. You base your ideas on what you've seen on CZcams. I also have two rather important objections to your claims. 1. I clearly state in this video that this applies to recreational runners and that other things may apply to elite runners, thus supporting your idea that it may work differently for Eliud Kipchoge. 2. you are completely wrong about Kipchoge's lean. He is in no way "extremely forward leaning". Please watch my video "The leaning does NOT control the pace when running" and skip to 1.22. There you have a perfect picture of Kipchoge from the side. It is by no means an extreme leaning. The exact meaning of "extreme" is of course debatable. But the fact that more than 9 out of 10 of the runners who lean a bit too much forward get a shorter contact time when I adjust their posture is not debatable. These are measurable facts regardless of whether it makes sense to you or not.