When Chibnall Made An Entire Episode Into Exposition
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- Remember when Torchwood Series 2 just decided to do a whole episode made up of flashbacks? Yep, that's exactly what the episode Fragments does. But is it any good?
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It's kind of horrifying to realize Ianto was the one who found and captured the pterodactyl Jack let loose to try to kill Ianto's girlfriend
I’m with jack 😂
Oh damn...
There's a hint to Tosh being forced to join torchwood back in To the Last Man, when Tommy says she wasn't forced to join torchwood, but she stays quiet and looks uncomfortable. Because she was sort of forced to join torchwood, she really didn't have a choice
My dyslexia made me read the title as "When chibnall made an explosion an entire eposode" and I mean.... It wasn't wrong???
I read the same, only noticed it after reading your comment, guess I’m dyslexic too.
It did have an explosion as its key premise to set up the flashbacks so pretty much.
One unmentioned idea that haunts me: Tosh joined TW a year before Owen. So she is likely the one who helped cover up Katie's death. And at the time being as unaffected as she was to cover up the porter's death that Gwen witnessed in Everything Changes.
One wonders if Tosh originally fell for Owen after seeing his devastation, feeling responsible for it, and wanting to heal him.
I felt the real reason Ianto was so pushy to get into TW with Jack was he needed the technology to keep Lisa alive. Also it's neat seeing the consummate pursuer Jack being pursued.
When Harbor Saud that line about Into joining TW3 "simply wanting to do good" I laughed. When Ianto brings Jack coffee on the docks and begs to join him the desperation bleeds through. This isn't simply a man dealing with PTSD from Canary Wharf and not knowing what to do with himself now. He's desperate to save his Lisa.
Owen was already a fantastic character but his backstory given here just makes him all the better. You really do feel for him and wonder how much you misjudged him when Series 1 happened. Owen simp and proud.
*Salutes you, brave sir*
Owen stan
That me I mean
Yes! ..and now I'm dreading for the next episode review.
All aboard the Owen simp train toot toot! Wait until you listen to his Big Finish audios 🥰🥰
The flashback for Tosh in this episode really made me rethink how I interpreted her character. She seemed like such a goody goody and to find out she can make really dangerous shit and be sneaky and break rules?? I mean I know she was under duress but I didn't think she would go that far. Really adds dimension to her character, love the layers to her that appear slowly over the course of the series. She's the most underrated of the team imo and she deserves more appreciation!!
There was kind of a hint that something was up with Tosh in To The Last Man, when Tommy jokes about Tosh not being forced into torchwood and she just stands there looking sad by the comment. Cos when you think about it, she was kind of forced to join Torchwodo
Every time I think “oh yeah Ianto was originally just a jr researcher”, I’m reminded of that scene at the end of Meat where he just slams a door into a guy’s face and tases him like it’s nothing, kicks a gun out of another guy’s hand and then tases that guy right in the forehead just super menacingly calm. Like damn, dude.
Fun Fact: the original script had Gwen included in the group and the explosion, and her flashback would have been Everything Changes fast forwarded over 30 seconds.
I'm glad that didn't happen, we already knew Gwen's story so it makes sense for her not to be in the explosion and rather be the one who saves the team. I love how she brought Rhys along too. :-)
I really don’t understand how Chris can mess up Dr who so badly when he did write so many great torchwood episodes. I would love a behind the scenes exposè in the future about the shot show
i think its because doctor who is a family friendly show and torchwood is no where close to being family friendly, my best guess is hes pretty weak in family friendly writing compared to how strong he is in adult writing
@@electricpants8194 best example broadchurch, magnificent writing
"Do you understand how little that narrows it down?"
Despite how much I love Torchwood, and Captain Jack, I can't help but realise how toxic the organisation actually is. They are outside the Government and beyond the police, capable of going against human rights just for sake of it. Their power is ultimate, and to top it off -- the leader is someone who is immortal and has little sympathy in most scenarios (due to the lifestyle he has). That alone brings such darkness into the organisation and really hits home how dangerous it can be. Not only that, Torchwood members are never the same again. Similar to Doctor Who, companions change when travelling with the Doctor. They seek for more adventure (majority of the time). Which is what happens in Torchwood but a lot darker. They are literally cut off from the outside world. They're underground, undetectable, forced to wipe any information in the slightest that even hints towards them being an organisation. They wipe CCTV footage whenever they please and are even talented enough to perfectly edit footage to give off every wrong impression that best keeps them hidden from sight. Captain Jack is even capable of removing the word 'Torchwood' from the internet in one go, including any and all information that is on there. The members become harder. They begin to be so disoriented with the rest of the world that they forget what it means to be Human. To care for the lives of others, because they would all much rather be fighting extraterrestrial beings. It's an addiction, and it greatly negatively impacts the world (with them being safe and sound underground). The concept alone is spine-chilling and it comes to show how Torchwood can do whatever they please and it would be acceptable for them. Though saying all of this, I completely love Torchwood, I completely love Captain Jack Harkness, and I would absolutely adore to be part of the Torchwood team.
I wonder what that says about me. 👀
Didnt know chibnall wrote this and now im confused. This was my favourite episode
He's a lot better with adult writing/shows.
Don't be confused. Chibs was doing some good writing in Torchwood. Just a shame he couldn't transpose some of that talent to Doctor Who, I had such high hopes.
He either struggles trying to make stuff all ages can watch or the BBC are forcing him to make woke drivel I'd like to hope it's the latter as he's done some really good episodes in the past
@@XxWolfxWaRioRxX The BBC aren't the ones forcing him to write bland characters lol
You know what the best thing we learned from this episode is?
Pterodactyls like chocolate!
Preferably Dark. :-)
Fax
I've always wondered why the doctor allows UNIT to do this to people. Yeah, some of them might deserve it, but how many of those prisoners are like tosh? How many of them have been threatened and forced to commit crimes and been caught and thrown in here left to rot? I think this needs to be explored in doctor who. Considering Kate became in charge of unit, did she get rid of it? And why didn't the brigadier get involved when he was still alive?
I reckon the doctor isn’t aware of the UNIT blacksites and it’s likely the most well guarded UNIT secret. Kate likely hasn’t got rid of it as it’s always been there and changing something like that is likely to unravel UNIT as an organisation. The Brigadier likely was involved and wouldn’t have been proud of it, but knew that the blacksites were necessary to have UNIT operate without causing mass worry and panic to the public.
Because Chibnall hate UNIT. No wonder he destroy it in his era.
Many fans did not like that UNIT was portrayed as extremely dark and ruthless in comparison to the mainly positive portrayal in previous episodes, considering it to resemble an overly-edge fanfic.
I don't think The Doctor aware of it. After his experience being stuck with them and added with the Brig being not in charge anymore, he wants to have less than anything with them.
Seeing the era when Torchwood is made, I have a theory that at that times UNIT had a lot of involvement with UK military. Their assets might be used (probably forced) to serve the UK military intelligence necessity at that time. Hence, the black sites.
Kate Stewart seems to try to reform UNIT, making it more science-based rather than military. Not so easy with the funding and conflict of interest.
@@Alia-bc3rc The problem is that UNIT still is part from the UN.
The 5 years of service line serves no purpose.
Would’ve been cooler if he’d only asked for a year or maybe 6 months. That way because we know the cold open is 5 years later, we can assume that Tosh decided to stay with Jack and Torchwood without any obligation to. It’d be a nice wrinkle to her character that can either be from enjoyment of her work or from a sense of duty or maybe even tie it into her love for Owen keeping her around.
There’s so much more that could’ve been done with just the tiniest change here.
Waste of potential.
That's genius, now i wish they would have done that
the UNIT's black sites plot is really interesting. I wish Big Finish would veer a little bit toward that. As for now the UNIT series has been a little bit too tame.
Because that is not UNIT. Is the UK goberment.
I find it sooo sad that Tosh and Owen and killed in this finale, it breaks my heart
don't get me started i cried for the whole last 5 minutes of that episode
Ianto wasn’t a James Bond type operative, the story represented on that cover is a virtual reality where James Bond type tropes are deliberately invoked. Ianto is more the admin guy.
Tosh and Owens backstories says so much about who they are.
I fucking love this episode. I love all the backstories soo much
I did forget how much I loved this show.
I do love this episode. We see these characters develop and change in personality and all the stuff they go through and their assigned roles within the team and stuff and Torchwood is a shadowy group and you know that they are not just gonna hire anyone. The person must need the right kind of skills or personality to be part of Torchwood so it was really interested how all of them ended up part of the team. I never have issues with episodes that are just pure backstory cus backstory helps with development. It gives you a sense of who the person is a whole it rounds them out.
110% Agreed with ya. The Team aside Jack (from the most part) and Gwen, were a complete mystery and I'm glad they took the time to give them a bit of backstory before they all got thrown into the Exit Wounds.
I did love "Fragments" but I always thought its placement kind of weird. I mean, you have an episode where everyone's backstory is explored, and then literally the next episode 2 of the 5 main characters die.
I agree it would've been nice to see a bit earlier, maybe the beginning of season 2
My favourite character was always Owen. From the start I knew that Owen would be my favourite
Don't think I knew about expanded media saying that Alex saw the 456 and the Miracle. That's AWESOME! Well, not for him, but cool for us XD
Please do the Sarah Jane Adventures as well. That is all.
I second this. Please do.
I’m with you here, there’s not enough in depth content on that show!
Indeed. The RTD Era really had a Holy Trinity of Who. With the main show and its two spin offs. Its was certainly a Golden Age for the show.
I really wish the Trickster had made a come back in the main show or maybe even a Torchwood variant with a more violent streak.
@@jessica23claire That's cos it's for kids. I think that the reason Harbo doesn't want to do SJA is due to nostalgia.
HEAR HEAR!!!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Despite it being a Chibnall exposition dump I really love the extra development for Owen and Tosh... Although it does feel a little crammed in right before the episode where they die 🤷♀ahh well😂 I'll take this over Cyber Woman, End of Days and Day One... just about
rly weird that this video is the first you mention Ianto and Jack's relationship despite its importance across series 2
Does Northern Ireland have a torch wood 4 London has torch wood 1, Scotland has torch wood 2 and Cardiff has torch wood 3 why no Ireland it was and still is partly part of the U.K. Of Ireland and Britain
Probably. All we know about Torchwood Four that it has been missing.
Torchwood 4 probably moved to Belfast from Dublin after the republic gained independence
@@ByddinRhyddidCymru yeah it is missing but it probably was in Dublin or Belfast
Didn't really like it on my first watch, but you definitely made me appreciate it a lot more. I think it was a lot of information/lore established about Torchwood and its team, so I was overwhelmed and immediately dismissed a lot of it as either too out of character or too convenient especially with everyone surviving in the end (but Ig the made up for that in the next episode...) without actually giving it a proper chance. Now I only wish we'd got this episode much earlier to be able to see the characters for what they really are / understand them better.
"Who torches the torchwood?" hilarious
12:05 Feels like a commentary on the "required skills" for junior staff in job listings
Ah yes, the king of exposition! Wait....
Burn Gorman would be a great Snape. As Owen he was both thoroughly unlikable and deeply sympathetic.
And does a brilliant British accent
@@mrdr0161 Isn't that his real accent though? I know he was born in the USA, but I'm pretty sure he spent most of his formative years in the UK. I think he even went to university there.
@@JR-pf9in it is his real accent
7:27 UNIT was always pretty shooty in the 3rd Doctor era, much to the Doctor's chagrin.
yes, and led to some of the most brilliant interactions with 3rd and the brig!
Yeah, but still are the good guys.
I've been waiting for this since I watched the episode 2 or 3 days ago
I hate to defend Chibs here but I think Fragments was way better than anything he's churned out in Who like the TTC but I never saw Fragments as exposition as outside Jack we didn't know anything about the Team's past. And know that Owen had a fiancé who died kinda explains his self obsessed behaviour before his *Spoilers*, actually kinda made me feel for the guy, before I thought Owen was kind of a Jerk.
But at least if you see Fragments as an Exposition, at least it's done right... showing not telling and frankly it made sense giving the term that before you die, your life flashes before you.
Chibnall is such a good writer, so why is his dr who showrunning so awful?
The producer he worked with during Torchwood and Broadchurch s1-2 no longer works with him. Probably that really
He shows he is a good writer but the less syfy in an episode the better
He is good at interpersonal character drama it is just the handling of the overt sci fi stuff is where he trips up. look at Broadchurch his absolute masterpiece. it is so brilliantly written. Broadchurch is a drama. full of tension and inter related characters and complex moment and heightened emotion. Chibnall is great at that stuff just not actual sci fi stuff
@@lucypreece7581 you know, maybe that’s why I like a lot of Chibnall episodes even though others don’t. The characters are what I watch Doctor Who for, the realism of the science doesn’t mean that much to me because I don’t know about it.
@@lucypreece7581 but it’s strange because I don’t think any of the characters in s11-12 of Doctor Who have been fleshed out to any extents, aside from Graham who is partially developed. Just confusing
Burn Gorman is sooo good.
Sounds like it should've been episode 2 in series 1
I think she wouldn't be tense around Martha because (as we know as a viewer) if Martha knew about the Black sites she'd immediately quit and it's been stated with stuff like the Black Archives shows a lot is kept so incredibly secret she problem wasn't high up enough to find out and I'd imagine The Brigadier didn't know either as he'd shut that shit down. Kate says she's been changing UNIT kicking and screaming so maybe she became aware of these sites and put a stop to it.
Some of the Torchwood novels are interesting and worth looking into if you haven’t already.
Okay, the Aunty Donna Cameo threw me off. Wasn't expecting Australian comedy here
I agree - so WTF happened with Who?
I seriously question, after the latest dumpster fire that is Chibnall's Dr Who, that Chris actually wrote this episode. After suffering through the latest incarnation of Dr Who I'd have him investigated for plagiarism.
my 2 fave torchwood episodes are chibnal episodes 😂
Can you do a video where you rank all the doctor's regenerations
This was a great episode, building up a more complex and unique identity for Torchwood than Doctor Who with sexy bits. Intrigued by where a 3rd Chibnall Torchwood season would have gone, since by that point if he’d remained he’d have enough clout to go further down his own path. I don’t want to encourage a bunch of Chibnall bashing in this delightfully grown-up comments section, but I somehow think another Torchwood season would have been more popular (I’m not judging quality here) than either of the first two or his Doctor Who seasons. Broadchurch certainly was. Why his Doctor Who hasn’t quite hit the highs the BBC and we could have expected is hard to say. Absolutely it’s got nothing to do with diversity or wokeness or any such thing, as Marvel’s shows are proving. Making a six-part story arc will make it even easier to compare DW to Loki which should be interesting, but I feel like it’s something Chinball has wanted to do all along, so despite my very strong reservations about the Timeless Children (though that was the episode I thought this video would be about) I’m looking forward to seeing it play out.
I never saw torchwood back when it was on. Is it still worth a watch in 2021?
its dated and extremely hit and miss. depends how deep into the whoniverse you want to go i guess
yes
It's worth a try, especially the longer it goes on.
yeah it’s brilliant
Before I watch, you better not be talking shit about fragments.
Tosh in the cell fucks me every time.
If you don’t enjoy Exit Wounds, I will unsubscribe..
Bit harsh
Chris Chibnall, don't even give this man a pen...
I wish they’d bring back Torchwood but the tight fisted BBC Won’t. Captain Jack,Gwen and a new team set in Cardiff. Let’s forget the American mess.
Aliens Among Us has done just that. The first episode is even called Changes Everything in reference to the first Torchwood episode.
Meh, only one American lives at the end of miracle day, and i always enjoy "The american has live in UK and hates it" trope.
Also iirc it's stated in the audios that Rex came back to US and become the head of the CIA, so he prolly wouldn't be a part or new torchwood.
God, it almost seems like Chibnall got worse over time.
Hey Har
❤️
👍
I'm no longer interested in who the next Doctor will be. I am interested in who the next show runner will be though. The sooner Chinballs is gone the better. But the BBC are probably going to continue the points scoring virtue signalling
I really really hope that if the new doctor has some kind of diverse background, that they treat the character as more than a token for the BBC's brownie points. I'm so sick of diversity for the sake of praise. Just HAVE diversity, don't expect a goddamn cookie for it.
I despise owen's story. It retcons him severely and detracts rather than adding to his character
Why tho? Just curious
@@mere_serendipity8275 it was heavily implied in out of time that owen never experienced love
@@giladzxc17 no, he said he's scared of love. And this episode explains why. The last time he was in love with someone, she got an alien latched onto her brain
@@mrdr0161 in his and diane's conversation after they sleep together, he describes his feelings in a convoluted way, to which she replys "i love you too". This implies he never actually experienced it thus he cant articulate it properly.
@@giladzxc17 not necessarily. I think considering he'd experienced love and had been heartbroken before, it'd be natural for him to be resistant and scared of that feeling again, having repressed any kind of emotional intimacy for so long. I can understand why you'd think it retcons his personality, but I think it really explains a lot about him. it explains why he immediately lashes out at Gwen once that affair gets more complicated than sex, and it explains why he pushes back from his feelings for Diane at first, and doubles down on his behaviour when she breaks his heart.